US living on borrowed money - Page 2
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 31

Thread: US living on borrowed money

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    USJ
    Posts
    13,830

    Re: US living on borrowed money

    Err...Maxi ...welcome to the forum...n thanks for your guides into the financial wizardry n your analysis in the monetary theories....

    Ahem...Orchi is but an ordinary countryman...who is incidently a ningkampoo when it comes to this sorta thingy...

    But but Orchi is keen to know whether this country that we share in here...is fast becoming broke or not?....err...hopefully as a fella countryman(unless you are a foreigner yourself)...you might be able to advise us better on certain issues raised here....

    1. How much do we have as a nation?
    2. How much do we owe in external debts...err...to whom?
    3. How are we paying these debts so far to our creditors?
    4. Why has Petronas been issuing bonds to finance its debt repayments to external debts?
    5. How was this money used after they were borrowed?
    6. How about our national car maker Proton?
    7. Finally what is the debt distributions amongst all legal malaysians to these foreign debts?
    8. How long further would we or our future generations have to pay for these debts?
    9. After the expiry of the tenure in all them privatization projects lika PLUS...Tenaga...Telekom..etc etc..how long further do we malaysian have to continue to repay these external debts?

    Err...your further contributions here are much appreciated...n TQ very much again...

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Subang
    Posts
    11

    Re: US living on borrowed money

    This mahathir always practizes double standards. I remember when USA and singapore criticize against some of the policies here and he said "mind your own business".

    So WHY is he poking his nose at other peoples' business ?

    I guess that the proverb is true "You can see other people minor faults but cannot see your own major fault" !

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    PJ
    Posts
    42

    Re: US living on borrowed money

    Noticed you rather continue a new thread than discussing the old one.
    Dr. M was the best what Malaysia had in those critical years when the ‘Elite’ (invisible world government) took control of so many countries. Before you ask all your questions you have to learn first to understand how money is created. For that I gave you the link http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/jekyll.htm I cant help that you are a simple kampong guy – I can give you a link – but you have to read it yourself in order to understand.

    Hitler was the first who introduced money without backing. He did not have Gold. When the US abolished the gold standard in 1971 – we entered a new area. Since 600BC it’s the first time that not a single country in the world has anymore a backed currency.
    All money is fiat - ! i.e paper token, often not worth the paper its printed on. IT’S TRUST ONLY!!! Only 2% is printed, the rest exists only electronically as a speculative figure.

    To obtain a international trading value, one has to become a member of the IMF. Only than a country is allowed to negotiate with BIS. BIS will require a country to deposit with them a exchange reserve in US$. For that a country has to sell its natural resources and exchange them into paper-tokens issued by the privately owned FED. This makes only the ‘Elite’ rich as they own those private banks.
    After one joined BIS they might get invited to join WTO and their GATT rules. Russia and China are amongst many others still not member of the WTO.

    China is the only country which never ever owed any country any money and is therefore not under the US control. Most other countries are controlled by them.
    You see – when they issue money – i.e. $100 they expect you to repay $110 – but those $10 extra have never been created. So it is technically impossible to ever repay interest.
    The ‘Elite’ does not make a living of money – they can issue as much as they want to – they only make a living of the interest and they hegemonies the world via interest.

    Money can only be created via resources or debt. Malaysia is rich, because of the resources. It has 10 times more population as Singapore, but only half the external debt.
    Economically it is not doing too bad. However the fast majority of the population is not eager in learning and qualifying themselves for better jobs. Malaysia is earning its standing to low-tech and natural resources. Dr.M’s message to the world was camouflaging this fact by building a modern capital he overcame the colonial hangover of a development country, but he sacrificed the beauty and future of the country to the old charming identity of the Summerset Maugham Malaysia. Look at the ugly destroyed countryside like in PD, Genting, Frazers, Penag or Cameroon’s etc. KL looks like any modern city in Asia these days and lost its charm. We are duplicating the image of others. With an increasing under qualified population our economical ability to sustain this all will change. Latest when the support for those unproductive members of society is exceeding the proceeds from natural resources.

    Wealth can only be earned from the outside. This is a law of nature. If you employ each other in your family and each is earning form the other, your are shifting existing wealth within that family – but not really generating new wealth. New wealth must come from the outside.

    That’s why Governments and large corporations issue bonds. It is only an accounting trick as all think that they have to follow the Elites accounting system (as if this was also a law of nature). A bond is a promise to pay in the future. Against this bond a bank Negara or others will be able to create/invest funds and hope for interest gain. The evil thing that is causing inflation is the interest and even though all religions oppose interest, all governments – including Islamic ones – are practicing it. They might term it different, but it amounts to the same thing. I suggest you read this link above for a better understanding of how we are fooled.

    You will understand, that the 7.5 trillion dollars debt of the US is today less than half the value which it was 3.5 years ago.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    MPSJ tax payer
    Posts
    1,292

    Re: US living on borrowed money

    Quote Originally Posted by orchipalar
    Err...Aroki-san ...the latest figures say...

    1. We got 3.7 millions unemployed malaysians
    2. We got more than 250 billions worth of various external debts(10k/newborn as well)...much of it in rising YEN...
    Orchi sama,

    where are you getting your figures?

    Let me add unemployment figure for tonight..there are 25million msian, if what you report is true, than the unemployment figure is 14.8%(very high)..well that is not so true cos unemployment should not take into account those who are not considered for employment..like children..and bear in mind the 25million includes 1million or so foreigners. Last count of epf members i remember is 10.5million members..ok not all are epf members..so add to that 1.5million thus total eligible work force is 12million..ok i may be wrong..make it 13million thus half the population are considered eligible for employment. Now looking at your unemployment number..that works out to 28.46% (very very high) unemployment..that means approx. every 1.3(rounding up..make it 1{20%}) person out of 5 that you meet are unemployed...do you see that happening around you. Do a quick sampling and see if that is true of people on the street etc.

    I'm kind of surprise of the number..thus my question where did this number come about?

    for external debt..check the bank negara website. that's all Orchi sama. Need to be employed tomorrow thus need some sleep to show up for work..or else there will be one more person to the unemployment figure.

    Maxi - nice articles..agree with you on the cut and paste. Links are better as it saves space on the usj serve.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    USJ by the Equator
    Posts
    1,794

    Re: US living on borrowed money

    Ochi-san, Aroki, Maxi and all,

    All these USDollar and fiat dollar - too much to digest lar!
    Hey, can you guys give a talk on this dollar thingy ar??

    How does the devalue of the dollar affect the common people like me, who does not understand the world economy?

    Anyway, if you do not have US Dollar in your pocket, it does not matter right?
    As in a game or a match, there is always two sides of the fence, except those who sit on the fence lah!
    Generally - If you hold more dollar, then you don't want the dollar to devalue right? If you borrow in USD, then you would not mind to have the dollar devalue - in the hope that with the devalued dollar, you will pay less interest going into the future (cheaper)?

    On the other hand, if you are selling in US Dollars, do you want the Dollar to devalue? Is Malaysia buying more from the US these days? Or selling more?

    And Lord, There must be a reason... What makes Dr.M make such a statement? Think again... I am just as blur as you anyway! Otak sudah jam...

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    PJ
    Posts
    42

    Re: US living on borrowed money

    Fellows, you must make up your mind if you want to make a political, economical or just a pseudo thread and which intellectual level you like to address.

    I don’t mind discussing any of these subjects, but not on a lah lah level. That’s a waste of time. To mix Malaysian unemployment with US$ value in the same threat is obviously killing the subject, particularly if the input is totally unqualified and just quotes some unverified figures. I have not understood what statement this should make. Unemployment is a indicator for political or economic conditions and as such there is a statement missing. What is in your opinion the reason for the high unemployment?
    Instead you mention the probability of the correctness of the percentage.
    In Western countries the unemployed are receiving a high subsidy from government and hence all register as unemployed. In Malaysia they receive a fraction and might not even bother to register – so the actual unemployment might be much higher.

    The result of unemployment might be because of poor qualification. Many Malaysians are too proud to accept certain work and Government rather imports foreign workers for those jobs and subsidizes locals – to keep them in line as potential sympathetic voters for the next elections. For higher qualified jobs the reason for unemployment amongst males might be the high female employment, which is in public sector over 70%. Those females used to be the pillar of the families, but today with feminism they go out to prove that they are equal to man. Indeed, many are not only better; they work often for less money longer hours and are therefore the preferred employee.
    The repercussion on the society is an extreme high divorce rate and unemployment amongst males. Her job used to be a man’s job!

    Again, the root cause is ‘democracy’ which destroys family values and sponsors individualism. But the individuals are easier to control than the groups and at the same time make them vulnerable to so-called modern individual living. i.e. sitting at home in front of TV and getting brainwashed by Astros violent movies. A good friend is a rich friend who has a car with a big exhaust (true rich people have a silent car). The others are brainwashed by their religion and are stuffed with moral and ethical values, which they forget anyway 5 minutes after they left the place of worship.

    I mentioned in my earlier contribution, that Malaysians are generally undereducated and not willing to qualify themselves higher. I was last week in Singapore and noticed signboards and adds on busses which targeted adults, that people should improve on their oral and written English to express their actual message better – and indeed any cashier spoke better English than the Malaysian Radio and TV announcers (which is not very difficult as they are selected by race and not qualification). People get what they deserve.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    MPSJ tax payer
    Posts
    1,292

    Re: US living on borrowed money

    maxi,

    the unempolyment issue was posted, yes not appropriate thread. My issue is to address it since I don't see it to be accurate. Whether to discuss what is the reasons for it etc is jumping the gun, when the unemployment figure is not correct or accepted. at times we need to ensure that information here is correct as far as possible as the posting can be read by someone and think that is the true picture. Not everyone post verified figures, instead go gung-ho on just making a posting without much research.

    BTW in Msia, unemployed people receive nothing from the government unlike the western countries. and it is not necessary that due to hand outs that there is high unemployment figures..a country facing serious economic issues will have a tendency to face higher unemployment..look at UK, 15 years ago and now. Most developed countries do have better control of their statistics. In Msia the number is not derived solely from those registed at the labour office as unemployed.

    to keep with Maxi's comments on relevant posting will not get into discussion of democracy, religion and value which he brought up. will kill the subjectlah.

    getting back to the subject matter, it is a great article in the star today to read on the dollar and easier to understand. Basically George Bush is not going to cut the deficit although he says he is going to by half as promised during elections..thus the dollar will be in play for most part of 2005. For those buying goods and selling in USD, it will be interesting if the RM is re-peg..you can make quite a bit of savings if you time it right. when will RM re-peg..who knows..maybe Maxi knows

    http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story...7&sec=business

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    KT
    Posts
    322

    Wink Re: US living on borrowed money

    Hi Maxi,

    Quote" Fellows, you must make up your mind if you want to make a political, economical or just a pseudo thread and which intellectual level you like to address.

    I don’t mind discussing any of these subjects, but not on a lah lah level. That’s a waste of time."


    Just cool lah. Don't be so up tight. Life is not just a number here or there.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Subang Jaya
    Posts
    1,371

    Re: US living on borrowed money

    So boring lah lah..no need economic lectures in the morning..please lets get back to the topic Re: US living on borrowed money

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    USJ
    Posts
    13,830

    Re: US living on borrowed money

    Err...the reason for cut n paste is obviously in favour for those majority of folks still dependant on dialups...which takes too long for materials to be downloaded...err...for uploading it is still acceptable...hence Orchi relies basically much to copy n paste the materials so these folks could read it first...n still got some patience to digest them....

    Nevertheless...it is also a quicker way of hightlighting day to day happenings in our freaking environment which we live in...err...especially so when a lot of people do not read the papers...n the trend these days is INterNET...

    The topic started here...is 'US' living on borrowed money...Orchi meant it to be like that...

    N if anyone here could offer MORE simpler enlightenment to some of the previous questions...please let Orchi know in here..

    Are we able to repay all them external debts which Dr. M borrowed in his times as our PM within the next 10 to 15 years?....n to whom do we owe these debts to?....Did we borrowed in USD?....or YEN?

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    PJ
    Posts
    42

    Re: US living on borrowed money

    Wildbill or Ski, I am very cool, I know it might sound arrogant to you, but I know what I am talking about and don’t just quack in forum without understanding the subject. So how about you keep cool and only say something if it contributes to the threa. No offence…

    Aroki, your link in todays Star underlines my point. There is this

    Professor Emeritus Dr Mohamed Ariff, executive director of the Malaysian Institute of Economic Research (MIER), and he does not even understand the background of the dollar and why the dollar is a major currency in this market. Jokers like him are politically selected. Right race, right background – no clue.
    In Bretton Wood in 1944 the dollar was made a world currency by the invisible World Government – lets just call it the ‘Elite’. The dollar in those days was ‘Gold backed’ but when Britain and France demanded Gold for their ‘Dollars’ trading was suspended (as often before when there was insufficient coverage on the banks) and Nixon simply removed the gold-backing. All countries in the world are since Bretton Woods under dollar-hegemony. After all – none of the countries had money after the war and took loans from the Americans, not realizing in those days, that the dollar was not owned by America, but by 11 private bankers.
    You have to do a bit of reading to understand this all – its simple – but you have to read. We call that selfeducation.
    http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/jekyll.htm
    http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/print.asp?ID=843
    http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/monie.htm
    http://www.cfoss.com/
    In 1974 Kissinger negotiated with OPEC, that all Oil will only be traded in dollars, for that the 11 private bankers are providing enough dollars. Today all major resources are only traded in dollars. Few people seem to understand that the dollar is only a ‘paper token’ without any intrinsic value attached. It can be produced unlimited, long as others are accepting it as legal tender.
    Since the Elite owns - apart from the paper token - the IMF, WTO and BIS, they can hegemonies the world at will. They import and consume real goods from their dollar-colonies (Malaysia is one of them), which they paid for with worthless paper-tokens.
    On a strategic level, countries like Malaysia, cannot possibly expect to develop toward world-class living standards by exporting to a rich minority of the world's population. The poor economies' excessive dependence on export to the rich economies under dollar hegemony will perpetuate the maldistribution of wealth on a global scale and put us permanently on the lower end of that scale.

    Financial imperialism is an advanced stage of old-time industrial imperialism. Nineteenth-century industrial imperialism of the British model at least produced industrialized products at the core out of raw material from undeveloped colonies. Twenty-first-century finance imperialism of the neo-liberal model uses financial manipulation to make industrialized colonies produce everything in exchange for fiat money in the form of dollars.

    Imperialism, now and then
    In contrast to industrial imperialism under which the imperialist economy exports value-added manufactured products for gold, with which to finance more new modern factories at home, the financial imperialist economy imports value-added products from the colonies and pays for them with fiat paper. The colonial economies now export real wealth in the form of value-added products and get paper in return. To make matters worse, under dollar hegemony, the fiat paper currency, in the form of dollars, can only be re-invested in the dollar economy, not non-dollar exporting economies. Exporting for dollars is merely shipping wealth out of the exporting economy to the dollar economy. The dollar economy has become the luxurious front office of the global economy.

    Both forms of imperialism sustain favorable trade terms with the colonies through political coercion. A sustained trade deficit supported by currency hegemony is the essence of finance imperialism. Unlike producers in the industrialized core during industrial imperialism, producers in the colonies under finance imperialism do not get richer from producing. They are locked into a Asian low-wage sweatshop production system so that global inflation can be contained to keep an ever-expanding supply of fiat dollars valuable. Credit is allotted through a central bank regime not to the entrepreneurs who can keep wages rising, but to those who can succeed in pushing wages down with government blessings. The more dollars the Federal Reserve releases, the lower world wages must fall to prevent global inflation. The more the dollar economy expands, the smaller the wage-to-price ratio in dollar terms. Those economies that defy this iron law of low wages under dollar hegemony are punished with financial crises that drain their dollar reserves.

    Dollar hegemony renders domestic Keynesian demand management inoperative. It is no longer economically necessary to manage demand by raising wages even at the financial core, since consumption can be maintained by lowering prices of products produced at low-wage peripheries, paid for by the wealth effect of dollar assets buoyed by a rising tide of fiat dollars that the Fed can release without limits and with no penalty or reckoning. Thus under dollar hegemony, money takes on an additional function as a confiscatory tax on wages, apart from the conventional functions of store of value and medium of exchange. This confiscatory role of money on wages works across all national borders, spreading and perpetuating poverty on the working class all over the entire globe. Neo-liberal economists call it wage arbitrage natural to finance market fundamentalism. They put forward the argument that workers are not unjustly exploited by imperialists or capitalists. The dismal fate of workers under dollar hegemony, in a neo-Ricardian iron law of wages, is the logical outcome of a Hayackian amoral market scientism. The law of the financial jungle has become the ideal of the capitalist civilization.
    This half baked expert Dr Mohamed Ariff proposes the Ringgit to be de-pegged from the dollar –not realizing, that the joined peg, is forcing the US in its knees. The debt of the Americans is like this always the same. Would more countries de-peg, the value of the total US debt would have more than halved over the last 3 years as the dollar fell by 54%
    Apart from that, Malaysia’s resources still have to be traded in dollar according to IMF, WTO and BIS regulations.

    b

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    KT
    Posts
    322

    Wink Re: US living on borrowed money

    Hi Maxi,

    Look like you are the only smart one around. So what if you know what you are talking about . Another smart A**

    Why not apply for a job in FM or BN to help Malaysia. Not just talk only.

    No Offence.
    Last edited by wildbill; 06-12-2004 at 03:28 PM.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    PJ
    Posts
    42

    Re: US living on borrowed money

    Wildbill - please read the subject hader. I am not the center of discussion and I am not jobless either - apart from the fact that I belong to the wrong race.
    I agree with u that the header here is already stupid. The US are not living on borrowed money - its paper-tokens only... the value is purely hypothetical...

    Actually u did not read all the links i gave u and hence u are so quick in replying. a intellectual principal is - read - inform - think - formulate - write - !!! u seem to jump from the the first to the last and miss the three important steps in between... Since I am older than your Dad, take the sequence as a friendly fatherly advice from me

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    KT
    Posts
    322

    Wink Re: US living on borrowed money

    Hi Maxi, ,

    Personally, I thank you for your contribution in this forum and I did learned a lot from the discussion.

    You have to understand, we all come from diff. background. For some, certain knowledge is pea nut, but to others, is a rocket science. We are here to contribution and learn and not to put one down.

    I quote:
    " Fellows, you must make up your mind if you want to make a political, economical or just a pseudo thread and which intellectual level you like to address.

    I don’t mind discussing any of these subjects, but not on a lah lah level. That’s a waste of time"

    " Wildbill or Ski, I am very cool, I know it might sound arrogant to you, but I know what I am talking about and don’t just quack in forum without understanding the subject. So how about you keep cool and only say something if it contributes to the threa. No offence…"

    End quote.

    I hope you understand what I meant and hope to see you contribute more in the future.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    USJ
    Posts
    6,964

    Re: US living on borrowed money

    Wildbill, please do not ask people who post high-level contributions to tone down to the basement level. You know what I do when I don't understand? I skip it and move on. There are others who will benefit from it. Perhaps a student will find the point of view valuable in his/her upcoming essay?

    Maxi, please accept the fact that in a public forum, there will be variety and multiple interlectual levels. Thank you for sharing your knowledge, we appreciate that but like some of the folks mentioned, do stay loose and you will have less stress.

    Whatever you folks post, please remember to add the hyperlink to the URL that you are getting the stuff from. It is easy to cut-and-paste from other web-resources, but we need to acknowledge the source otherwise it will be construed to be plagiarism.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •