need legal opinion/help, non legal also welcome

[romi_o]

just this week, i received 2 letters from citibank.
the 1st one is about closing/cancelling my mastercard account. i don't mind about that because i wasn't even using it since the stupid bank charged me rm90 for a card that is not so useful.... i paid for the annual fee (though not so happy, cos' i didn't even ask to renew it)... few months later, my supplement card expired, and again, those blood suckers don't even take a second thought, and again bugged me to renew (not a choice, cos' they think they r so much powerful than astro, they don't even bother to give notice like astro to opt for a choice)
i've ignored that bill and sent a message to that bank's customer service telling them i didn't want to renew it. and well, guess what, they asked me to sent in a fax/mail and later their customer service ppl will contact me. since i was going outstation, well, i forgot to do so. and this goes from month to month, untill today. what the heck.... for less than rm90, u think they'll take legal action??? wasting their time only!!!
the 2nd one, well, was telling me that my visa card account was also cancelled, and the note said that i have 10 days to clear my debt and cut my card and send back to them. my bill due date was 23/9, and i've sent my cheque on 20/9. and u know what, the mail was dated 20/9, and i only received it today 29/9. hmmm..... and they knew i didn't clear my debt on that day i pay them....... anyway, for all citibank card holder out there, pls..... think about this:
previously astro has to take back the "if no answer, assume u will subscribe to the new package" message, and placed "if u want, only reply". who is this citibank?? i've not only once talked about this, but if their employee is watching/reading this, or better still, the MD is reading this, here's what i wanna say : "u SUCKS!!!"

help: can someone give me a legal/non legal advise on whether to wait for their legal action, or can i counter this?? i wish the astro matter will reenact!!

[jericho]

I'm a satisfied customer of Citibank though

Excellent service even just a normal silver cards holder

[patrick]

Where Citibank is concerned, it's a mixed feeling. There were times I was really mad with them, and there were times I was quite pleased.

But the thing is, even when they are bad, they are still nowhere near my Maybank card. Makes you really sick. Write to them, no respond, no nothing!! Absolutely nothing !! I have decided to cancel their cards.

So...there you are. Between the devil and the deep blue sea. But UOB Card was great in terms of service. But their meddling with the redemption programme made me gave up their card.

Rgds.

[shali]

Dea Romi_o (and to whom it may concern)

First, get hold of the duplicate copy of the citibank form you ACTUALLY SIGNED AND SENT to citibank, when you first applied for the card(s).

Second, if you didn't make a copy of it, write to them, requesting for a photocopy to be supplied to you. Unlike Telekom, who wil NEVER give you a copy of your telephone agreement, you can try Citibank, and see if Citibank too uses the same 'trick'.

Third, after receiving the copy, check the terms in detail, but if you don't get any reply, worry not. Get hold of a copy of the 'take-one' application form from any citibank branch, and read the terms. Note -- the court will throw out Citibank's case if they simply tender in evidence a "standard form" without your signature.

Fourth, if you feel you have been wronged, report to the Consumer claims court.

Fifth, report to Consumer Association of Penang

Sixth, report to the Association of Banks & financial Institutions

Seventh, report to BNM, supervisory division.

Eighth, pay the RM90 or whatever UNDER PROTEST and without prejudice to all rights that you are entitled to under the law. Please don't screw this up.

9th, if you are unsure about 1 - 8, feel free to contact me

[romi_o]

well, no, i don't think this is acceptable, just like astro.... it's only right if they call u up n ask u whether u want to renew ur card, not forcefully, no matter written or not...
so, i'll wait for them to take action lor....
btw, they cashed out my cheque today, hehe, and i'm planning to let them called me so i can p*** on their face, *sigh*. and they said i don't pay! prediction?? or fortune teller?? (knew that i'm not paying even before my payment due date! if they r so cocky, why don't they just reject my cheque?? in that case, i'm not paying, and they can sue me lah! "najis" (english, pls)
counting down the days b4 i get sued

[clfoo]

sigh, this experience passed on from one to another, I did have similar experience months ago, let me share the fairy tale ...

What happened was one fine day this customer service called up and informed my citibank credit card was hacked, then they wanted to replace with a new one, since I need to go through the process of informing all the auto-debit vendors about the new card, I told them might as well cancel my card, because thinking of consolidated all the bills into another credit card. But the customer service said she got no power to do it asking me to call another number.

Next, my statement arrived with new renewal fee and I called up the customer service telling them I wish to cancel my card, but to my dismay the customer service in a threatening tone telling me I got to pay in full irregardless (to be frank all this while their officials never been this rude), i got furious and asked him which rule allowed them to charge me the subscription fee that I no longer interested to continue, since they were charging the fee to my card without my consent at first place now they should be able to remove it when I disagree and wish to discontinue. he then asked me to fax to another number to cancel my card, which I did it immediately.

Subsequently, the statement came again, with the renewal fee + penalty. I wrote to them to stop sending the statement since I've already canceled my card, and request them to show me which clause grant them to charge me membership fee that I no longer interested to subscribe to, failing so in one month I assume they agree with me (learnt from Astro ).

No response from them and following month the statement arrived again. This time i wrote a warning letter, telling them since they are not responding to my earlier letter I assumed they already agree with my reasoning that I didn't need to pay for something I don't want to subscribe to. If they continue to send me the statement again, I will take legal action (I was seriously want to take them to tribunal court that time, just waiting for the next statement to arrive). A week later, one representative from customer retention department called and offered me a so call win-win solution, they willing to waive everything if I agree to continue holding their card. I told them I already got bad taste and no point to stay loyal with them after given such treatment especially when there is better alternative out there (I happen to be their gold card holder for as long as i can remember since in US, beside I found that in spite of the higher membership fee, the bluecard holder enjoy even more discount benefit than gold @# $~!@# )

He agreed with me that they have no right to asked for full subscribtion fee when I don't want to continue, worst case scenario they can only pro-rate the fee for duration from the date the card expired till received notification of cancelation. To make his life less miserable and for him to be seemed doing his job, I agree to hold on with them for a little longer.

Thanks for this thread, now remind me I should cancel my card again now , ever since I had switched my faith to another credit card institution which willing to offer me more priority. Till they screw up again, I will switch to another, let us exercise a bit of our comsumer right .. akujanji

~~ The End ~~

[mmouse]

i fully agree with clfoo that it is time we exercise our consumer rights. Let me share my own experience too. Few months back I asked a bank to waive my annual fee for 2 years as they offered that to new customers and, to my knowledge, to some existing customers as well. But they said they can't and asked me to write in for their considerations. So I wrote in, twice. Yet they rejected, so I cancelled my credit cards.

The next morning, somebody rang me up and pretended to be innocent by asking me the reason why I cancelled my cards. After raising my voice, they offered me 1 year fee waival but with condition I sign up auto-debit for my utilities bills. I refused and insisted I want 2-year waival and will not sign up any auto-debit. Well, they said they couldn't give me 2-year waival because government had changed the ruling and they (foreign bank) are not allowed to waive annual fee for more than 1 year. Fine, so I told the guy I prefer to cancel my credit cards.

Guese what? one month after I cancelled my cards, I saw this bank offering 3-year fee waival to new members in Ads, and some of my friends who are existing card holders confirmed they are automatically given 2 year fee waival from that particular bank, without write-in request.

So what are the learning points?
1) if you think of signing auto-debit using credit card, think twice because that is one of the tactics to tie you down as it is such a hassle to revert this back to manual mode. (you have to write in to bank & all the payee companies, then delay, then late payment penalty blah blah blah). If you lost your credit cards, same hassle you have to go through, I would prefer using maybank2u to pay my bills.
2) if you are still paying annual fee for credit card, you may want to ask your card issuing bank to waive it coz I know they are extending fee waival not just to new members, but many existing members as well. Otherwise just cancel the cards and apply for new cards as some banks offer up to 5 years fee waival, or lifetime if I am not mistaken. After all, aren't credit cards in overseas free of annual fee?
3) Lastly, beware of lies & dirty tactics.

[romi_o]

well, if only i've learnt all this earlier... hehe, and they said "customer is always right", my @**
i did found that the ppl who phoned u think they r the boss, i was just back from oversea, after 1 month commissioning (and of cos', my bill due...) and i was just waiting for weekend to hand in my cheque... and guess what, an arrogant young guy called me from citi n with a rude voice "when u wanna pay??", my @**, i was going to scold that fella, but well, i was thinking, he's also working, why screw him? politely i said i was going to pay that weekend, and off i go....
what r these ppl thinking? if i don't wanna pay, or i scolded (with @#$&^ everything i knew) them, what's the benefit they will get? profit sharing?? hehe, in that case, they better beg i don't cabut/changed bank.....

think about this!!! like chinese saying "good ppl want fortune/prosperity, take it with good manner/reason", and i mean u ppl!!!

[chookyan]

mmouse, if would be excellent if you could share with us the name of the bank in question at least we can write in for the annual fee to be free if anyone of us are credit cards member of the particular bank.

Cheers!

[jericho]

My experience with Citibank is exactly the opposite of Romi's.

Recently I decided to cancelled my supplementary card and faxed in the cancellation letter with a copy of the supp card cut into half. A few days later someone from Citibank called me up and asked me why I wanna cancel the supp card. And she also informed me that I will need to pay a penalty for the cancellation since the supp card came with a free gift and the supp card is less than 1 year old.

She suggest that I hold on the supp card for another year and the annual fee will be waived and to only cancel the card later next year. And the new supp card will be sent to me FOC.

All this is done very professionally and nicely.

[mmouse]

chookyan

Earlier I chose not to name the bank for ethics reason - unlike the bank .

Anyway, most banks are offering 1-5 yrs fee waival for new credit card members, it just doesn't make sense that existing card members who have been quietly supporting their card business do not get to enjoy the benefits.

If I own a grocery shop, do I offer to Auntie May 10% discounts on all items for 6 months because she is a new customer to me, and charge Auntie Ann, who has been my regular customer, the normal selling price without the discount?

If there's the case, might as well all existing members cancel their cards and reapply again as new members, or apply to other banks as new members.

Do banks want this to happen? This marketing strategy is flawed, pls do not discrimate customers.

[chookyan]

mmouse - Thanks it is understandable on the ethics . I fully support your suggestion annual fees waived should be applicable for both existing and new card members. Let's hope some bankers read our web forum.

Bravo.

[clfoo]

If you have ever had to deal with a major corporation's customer service then you will really appreciate this.

My Aunt died this past January. Citi Bank billed her for February and March for their monthly service charge on her credit card, and then added late fees and interest on the monthly charge...the balance had been $0.00... now was somewhere around $60.00)

I placed the following phone call to CitiBank:

Me: "I am calling to tell you that she died in January."

CitiBank: "The account was never closed and the late fees and charges still apply."

Me: "Maybe, you should turn it over to collections..."

CitiBank: "Since it is 2 months past due, it already has been."

Me: "So, what will they do when they find out she is dead?"

CitiBank: "Either report her account to the frauds division, or report her to the credit bureau...maybe both!"

Me: "Do you think God will be mad at her?"

CitiBank:"...excuse me ......?"

Me: "Did you just get what I was telling you.... the part about her being dead?"

CitiBank: "Sir, you'll have to speak to my supervisor!"

(Supervisor gets on the phone)

Me: ''I'm calling to tell you, she died in January."

CitiBank: "The account was never closed and the late fees and charges still apply."

Me: "You mean you want to collect from her estate?"

CitiBank: ".....(stammer)" .... "Are you her lawyer?"

Me: "No, I'm her great nephew." (Lawyer info given... )

CitiBank: "Could you fax us a certificate of death?"

Me: "Sure." (Fax number is given)

(After they get the fax.)

CitiBank: "Our system just isn't setup for death..."

Me: "Oh..."

CitiBank: "I don't know what more I can do to help..."
Me: "Well... if you figure it out, great! If not, you could just keep billing her...I suppose...don't really think she will care...."

CitiBank: "Well...the late fees and charges do still apply."

Me: "'Would you like her new billing address?"

CitiBank: "That might help."

Me: "(Odessa Memorial Cemetery #### Hwy 129 and plot number given.)

CitiBank: "Sir, that's a cemetery!"

Me: "What do you do with dead people on your planet?!!!

[romi_o]

clfoo: well, that's why graduates nowadays hard to get a job (sorry for the insult, but just take this as a joke, ok?)
they only know how to follow SOP (standard operating procedure), if one step is not in, and there goes the nonsense... sh**, and u say those ppl are professionals? they don't even think out of the book.... and now u r all wondering why that bank always look for new ppl to join them? cos' by following the books, all the employees won't stay long, b'cos they've all gone haywire due to too much unexpected answers from the customers (eg. clfoo's example)

anyway, jericho, i do know if u cancellled ur card, they will call u up and bug u to continue using their card, with 2-3yrs fee waiver... all of my colleagues still cancelled their cards, y? hehe, u try and see for urself! y don't they just give fee waivers to all of their loyal customers?? save all the time for bugging the customers, and also give a good impression what... aiyah, when u pay promptly n more (i always pay more than my bill), did they reward u?? no sireeeeeeeeeeeeee.

so, ppl, any good recommendation for my next card? and i meant the service....

[patrick]

This much I can say. When it comes to service, here's my summation (as I had experienced it then; perhaps situation may have changed now):

1. Southern Bank wasnt too bad but the other perks were very dull.

2. Maybank Card service- as though we dont exist.

3. Eonbank - perks..nothing much to shout about. Supporting bank service...poor. But card free...so cannot complain.

4. Diners - not too bad but outlet acceptance poor.

5. Amex - hound you for payment.

6. Citibank - Luck of draw. Depends on the customer service staff that handle your case. Some are good, but some....yeach!!

Recently, I applied for the so called free card from 'Direct Access' (part of Southern Bank). Called me up to tell me my application was not successful. Why...my guess is because I am supposed to be retired and therefore cannot furnish my income statement. The irony of it all is until a few years ago I was a Southern Bank gold card holder. After I chose to 'retire' early, I decided to rationalize and termination my sub with the many credit cards I had as there were no free cards then. SBB kept persuing me to renew my card. Since now that they were offering free cards, thought I could renew that acquantance..but sadly they dont want me! Ha ha...actually it's their loss not mine. I have been a darn good card customer for donkey years and have never defaulted even once! Pay all my dues in full and usually even more. It's ironical isnt it? When I had to pay sub, they begged me to renew. When it's free, they wont even give me a card!!

That brings to question. Does it usually means people who are 'retired' wont make good card customers? I think their decision making and thought process isnt much to shout about. Or perhaps they are worried I may kick the bucket and they wont be able to recover their dues!! Ha ha.

Good luck in your decision making. Perhaps Penghulu should do a poll as to which is the most preferred credit card issuer ?

Rgds.