Is grass greener on the other side?

[Mat Bruce]

Aiya...I am not surprised if these cleaners are actually locals cleaning any houses.

Yes, there are lots of local Aussies doing cleaning jobs. Lot of new migrants as well. I know a Korean with a master degree doing cleaning thru VIP cleaning franchise. Today, he has 12 workers and lives in a million dollar street.

[Mat Bruce]

AUD40 per hour as cleaner !!

That's why some of those inggerish-speaking "neither-here-nor-there" from here wanna go there and hopefully one day they will be adopted by down under, nevermind if they have to clean the toilets, mow the lawn or drive uber for 12 hours non-stop just to earn a living. These "neither-here-nor-there" are so proud that they are now living in a developed country with high income..

Just like the foreign labours here who brag to their countrymen that they are living in a place more advance than their birthplace without revealing they are just the cheap labour for the locals in their current new place....

Typical Kiasu mentality, just because you got a few bucks, you find it necessary to brag your $50 spend on a cleaner cleaning your shoe rack. Come on, get your own maid. I paid 12k to agency for a maid as commission only, not even count salary yet. And don’t need to live in apartment, get a million dollar landed property and live properly. It is quite cheap in Malaysia.
Also buy another house in Australia. My cousins businessmen all not rich but can buy an apartment in Australia easily. I have 2 fully paid landed properties there already, you should catch up.

[opulant]

What a load of rubbish. Please go talk to people who have migrated there instead of shiok sendiri. I think you hallucinate a lot or growing to be a grumpy old man.

Since you are so upset with my post (#264), you must be one of the pathetic "neither-here-nor-there" that I described.

Come on, get over it. You just have to accept that life is not fair, don't get so upset when comparing with me...

[opulant]

Typical Kiasu mentality, just because you got a few bucks, you find it necessary to brag your $50 spend on a cleaner cleaning your shoe rack..

Why you have to think of bragging ?? brag of RM50 ??

You are completely wrong. The cleaner works in my condo and over the years, I think she is trust-worthy. Whenever I need a part-time cleaner, I will contact her. It's not about the money. I always give extra to anyone who do a good job.

I share this experience is to highlight a point that Malaysia is still cheap in services like maid, plumber, etc.

[opulant]

... My cousins businessmen all not rich but can buy an apartment in Australia easily. I have 2 fully paid landed properties there already, you should catch up.

You wanna talk about catching up .... OK

I was already in your current position in my early 40s. I doubt you can match my level 10 years ago, let alone now...



You wanna talk about property.... OK
First, let me tell you I don't invest in property, I don't need to invest in property to gain more $$$. I buy property to hedge my portfolio.

Generally, there are limited investment instruments available for most people including those in the top 1% of the country (unless you are the top 0.0001% of super rich)..

The common instruments are
1) Fixed income instrument like FD and bond
2) Retirement fund
3) Equity and trust
4) Property
and I rate them in that order.

As we are not in the same class, I am not sure whether you can understand my point.

[opulant]

...Also buy another house in Australia. My cousins businessmen all not rich but can buy an apartment in Australia easily. I have 2 fully paid landed properties there already, you should catch up.

I think you favorite topic is property... Ok, here is what I think about property hedging in Malaysia.

Let say, you have spare stash and you don't want to keep in fixed-income instrument anymore as interest rate in Malaysia is getting lower from 4%⁺ in the previous years to less than 3.7% now. You also don't want to see the investement portfolio is dominated by liquidity. You wanna diversify some of them and hedge them somewhere. Logically, property is the best long term hedging tool.

Let say, we take a number of RM1.3 million. There are 2 options
- invest in one property around RM1.3 million or
- invest in 2 properties around 650k each.

Obviously, invest in 2 properties of 650k is a safer bet because such property is relatively easier to sell in future and likely easier to rent out, and the rental yield is definitely better than a RM1.3 million house. I have done a calculation to find out 2 scenarios after 10 years :

a) Assume the property appreciates in average 5% per year and with rental income of RM2000 per month.
b) Assume the property appreciates in average 5% per year and without rental income

For (a), the property price will appreciate 377,570 and the accumulated rental income is 206,400 after 10 years. Hence, the investment return is 75% and thus the annualized return is 7.5%. This can be the best case scenario.

For (b), the property price will appreciate 377,570 and rental income is zero. Hence, the investment return is 46% and thus the annualized return is 4.6%. This can be the worst case scenario.

Of course, people can argue the property may appreciate more than 5% per annum but it can be less than 5% also. I have checked with a few developers, they normally increase the selling price of unsold property about 3% after one year.

Now, here is the acid test. If you place 650k in a FD with 3.6% annual interest. After 10 years, due to the magic of compounding, the money will grow 275,787. Hence, the investment return is 42% and thus the annualized return is 4.2%

My point is – unless you are lucky enough to catch the timing that the property price escalates a lot in the beginning few years after you bought it, property investment is just another investment if you look at long term, the rate of return is quite close with other investments.

Bear in mind, I am using the assumption that you buy with cash i.e. WITHOUT borrowing costs. Borrowing cost is the one which kill all the investment return. How many can buy property with cash - without incurring borrowing costs ??

Interest rate in australia is much lower (RBA still keep it at 1.5%), so you can try your luck in property there. No point to keep your money in fixed income instruments in australia.

In Malaysia, because the interest rate is higher (I still can get 4% preferential rate although the board rate is 3.7%), there is no need to dump money in property just for investment return. They are many people in Malaysia who park money in property not because of investment return, but to hedge. I think you are not yet in this category.

[opulant]

Interest rate in australia is much lower (RBA still keep it at 1.5%), so you can try your luck in property there. No point to keep your money in fixed income instruments in australia...

For those who don't know the compounding impact of higher interest rate/dividend, maybe these numbers can help..

0.4% of EPF members own 52% of all the EPF monies !!

In other words, 52% of the total money contributed by 7.2 million EPF members are belonged to 29,000 individuals !!

You think these 29,000 high-
income individuals are stupid, instead of investing in property here or abroad , still keep their huge amount of retirement money in EPF

Obviously, the reason is only one - the higher rate of return over a long period of time. You can't have it in Singapore, Australia, etc.

If you live in this country , this is probably one of the best things that can happen to your money, and with the lowest investment risks.

[cskok8]

This thread is a good source for potential kidnappers

[Naka]

Today I leant a new word from USA Ex President George Bush Sr who called Donald Trump " Blowhard. "

[tupai]

For those who don't know the compounding impact of higher interest rate/dividend, maybe these numbers can help..

0.4% of EPF members own 52% of all the EPF monies !!

In other words, 52% of the total money contributed by 7.2 million EPF members are belonged to 29,000 individuals !!

You think these 29,000 high-
income individuals are stupid, instead of investing in property here or abroad , still keep their huge amount of retirement money in EPF

Obviously, the reason is only one - the higher rate of return over a long period of time. You can't have it in Singapore, Australia, etc.

If you live in this country , this is probably one of the best things that can happen to your money, and with the lowest investment risks.

oops! duh ckret iz outta d bag!
so at 6% ROI apa lagi 28,768 cina members mahu?

[tupai]

lagi 1, if ye truly wanna bring duh corrupt gomen down, here then is the ekonomik chokehold... cina pendatang all can 100persen withdraw or stop contributing to this ponzi skim, pasti kolapse one...go for the jugular else, relek lah brudder cos this 'ere is Duh Best cuntry....not many are THAT smart.HAHAHAHH!

[opulant]

oops! duh ckret iz outta d bag!..

It's ok to let it out the bag because for those who only know now, it is kind of too late oredi.... unless one is 25 years old now, and the ponzi scheme still churn out above 5.8% annualized return for the next 30 years...

Simpletons who missed it are like this popular saying from HongKong - 苏州过后无艇搭..

After Suzhou, no more boat to ride anymore .. (Cantonese speaking, literally translated .. )

[Mat Bruce]

You wanna talk about catching up .... OK

I was already in your current position in my early 40s. I doubt you can match my level 10 years ago, let alone now...



You wanna talk about property.... OK
First, let me tell you I don't invest in property, I don't need to invest in property to gain more $$$. I buy property to hedge my portfolio.

Generally, there are limited investment instruments available for most people including those in the top 1% of the country (unless you are the top 0.0001% of super rich)..

The common instruments are
1) Fixed income instrument like FD and bond
2) Retirement fund
3) Equity and trust
4) Property

and I rate them in that order.

As we are not in the same class, I am not sure whether you can understand my point.

Yes, I definitely think we are not in the same class. I think you missed your Suzhou junkship on properties then. lol.What a pity!
FD is the worse vehicle for returns.
Well, I think debt is good if it is a good debt. We all leverage on debt. To park all your money or hedge all your money into a single property or pay off your house early is not a good move.
If you have not made money from property and use your bank�s loans to make money, then you definitely missed the ship the last 2 decades. To see you list properties as the last and list FD as the first, I am more than shock! Banks print money, they want to give away that money. Whey! Why would they want something they have plenty of?
If you had leveraged on those money, you will be super rich. Like use the money as deposits for properties, borrow the rest based in your high income and the properties as securities back to the banks, wait for these properties to gain equity, borrow on these equities again.
Your calculations is flawed as you based it on paying off the loan to its full term. The loan is a leverage. Most people will not be able to buy a house without leveraging on a loan. By leveraging, each 10 properties returning 100-300% and not just 1 property returning 100-300 %. The analogy is like 10 cows giving you milk instead of 1 cow. I am not sure you will understand my point.

[Mat Bruce]

This thread is a good source for potential kidnappers

You kidnap a person who has a lots of FDs that can be cashed out immediately I.e Opulant
Properties are for Pasar simpletons like me. My mum told me to invest properties because I always got cheated by my friends,they borrow and never return. Also always got robbed and soneone will steal my wallet away. This way, they cannot carry away the house and bricks, it is too heavy and second hand bricks cannot get a good price. I always only have enough to eat and no money in pocket so definitely not good candidate for kidnap.

[opulant]

Well, I think debt is good if it is a good debt..... Most people will not be able to buy a house without leveraging on a loan. By leveraging, each 10 properties returning 100-300% and not just 1 property returning 100-300 %. The analogy is like 10 cows giving you milk instead of 1 cow. I am not sure you will understand my point.

That's why you forever stuck in these "most people" category...

You do not need to agree with me or understand my point. You just need to visit the launch of those very high-end property, and talk to the sales staff there to find out the percentage of buyer who purchase with cash.

In life, once you reach a simple level, you don't need to bother of leverage this, leverge that anymore. I think you wouldn't know people who is beyond your level don't need to think of getting richer, life is simple and good to keep it that way.

I shall end it here. I don't need to teach you to be a smarter person, you can continue with your "good debt".