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Thread: Is grass greener on the other side?

  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat Bruce View Post
    Your forefathers came to Malaysia that way, and short of calling you idiots and stupid, I won't.
    If you trace your roots back to China, you will find that they came to Malaysia for survivals. Those who were doing well did not need to migrate.
    I see that you have difficulty to understand the issue. That's why is good to have Opulant to help you.

    Thanks Opulant.

  2. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by opulant View Post
    I don't know the exact figures for experienced GP.

    Fresh GP get around 40,000 per year. Consultants in England earn more than 100,000 a year.
    Quote Originally Posted by Naka View Post
    I was told experienced GP only gross 70,000.00 which is not a lot
    The numbers that I provide was from my neighbor's daughter. I spoke to her on this subject last time when she came back.

    I managed to find the official numbers from NHS. https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/abo...ne/pay-doctors


    Doctors in training
    - In the most junior hospital trainee post of Foundation year 1, your basic starting salary is 26,614. This increases in Foundation year 2 to 30,805.
    - If you’re a doctor starting your specialist training in 2017, your basic starting salary starts at 36,461 and progresses to 46,208.


    Specialty doctors
    - If you’re working as a specialty doctor, you’ll earn a basic salary of 37,923 to 70,718.


    Consultants
    - As a consultant you'll earn a basic salary of 76,761 to 103,490 per year, depending on the length of your service.
    - Consultants can also supplement their salary by working in private practice if they wish. The opportunities available will depend on their specialty areas and the time they wish to spend on this outside of their NHS contracted hours.


    General practitioners
    There are two contractual options for GPs. They can be:

    1) independent contractors who are in charge of running their own practices as business either alone or in partnerships. They have autonomy in how services are delivered according to their contract with the Clinical Commissioning Group. In England, these GPs have increasing responsibility for the commissioning of hospital services for the community

    2) salaried GPs who are employees of independent contractor practices or directly employed by primary care organisations. The pay range for salaried GPs is 56,525 to 85,298.


    So, the numbers from me and you are close to the actual. Please take note that with the exception of GP in the category of independent contractor, all the others are paid by NHS. In other words, their salary scheme is the public service pay scheme in UK. For most professions, regardless of here or overseas, you can only earn a lot if it is a private practice..
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  3. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by opulant View Post
    .... For most professions, regardless of here or overseas, you can only earn a lot if it is a private practice..

    Here are the starting salary I remember during campus recruitment exercise last time, about 30 years ago. Not sure how much now.

    Petronas Carigali : RM1650 (this is a glc pay scehme, not the public service pay scheme)

    EPMI (Esso Production Incorporated) : RM1900

    SSB (Sarawak Shell Bhd) : RM2500

    The above are monthly basic salary for those who are interested to work in upstream. On top of basic salary, they have offshore rig allowance ( I think is around RM60-80 per day). They work in 2 weeks rotation, ie 2 weeks offshore and two weeks onshore. So, their take home pay is around RM3000-4000 per month. It is an attractive pay compares to other engineering profession. An electronic engineer working in Intel is paid less than RM1800 at that time.
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  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by opulant View Post
    The numbers that I provide was from my neighbor's daughter. I spoke to her on this subject last time when she came back.

    I managed to find the official numbers from NHS. https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/abo...ne/pay-doctors


    Doctors in training
    - In the most junior hospital trainee post of Foundation year 1, your basic starting salary is 26,614. This increases in Foundation year 2 to 30,805.
    - If you’re a doctor starting your specialist training in 2017, your basic starting salary starts at 36,461 and progresses to 46,208.


    Specialty doctors
    - If you’re working as a specialty doctor, you’ll earn a basic salary of 37,923 to 70,718.


    Consultants
    - As a consultant you'll earn a basic salary of 76,761 to 103,490 per year, depending on the length of your service.
    - Consultants can also supplement their salary by working in private practice if they wish. The opportunities available will depend on their specialty areas and the time they wish to spend on this outside of their NHS contracted hours.


    General practitioners
    There are two contractual options for GPs. They can be:

    1) independent contractors who are in charge of running their own practices as business either alone or in partnerships. They have autonomy in how services are delivered according to their contract with the Clinical Commissioning Group. In England, these GPs have increasing responsibility for the commissioning of hospital services for the community

    2) salaried GPs who are employees of independent contractor practices or directly employed by primary care organisations. The pay range for salaried GPs is 56,525 to 85,298.


    So, the numbers from me and you are close to the actual. Please take note that with the exception of GP in the category of independent contractor, all the others are paid by NHS. In other words, their salary scheme is the public service pay scheme in UK. For most professions, regardless of here or overseas, you can only earn a lot if it is a private practice..
    Thanks for the info

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by opulant View Post
    Here are the starting salary I remember during campus recruitment exercise last time, about 30 years ago. Not sure how much now.

    Petronas Carigali : RM1650 (this is a glc pay scehme, not the public service pay scheme)

    EPMI (Esso Production Incorporated) : RM1900

    SSB (Sarawak Shell Bhd) : RM2500

    The above are monthly basic salary for those who are interested to work in upstream. On top of basic salary, they have offshore rig allowance ( I think is around RM60-80 per day). They work in 2 weeks rotation, ie 2 weeks offshore and two weeks onshore. So, their take home pay is around RM3000-4000 per month. It is an attractive pay compares to other engineering profession. An electronic engineer working in Intel is paid less than RM1800 at that time.

    The pay scheme from oil companies regardless of petronas or Shell is peanut when compares to the oilfield service contractors. These oilfield contractors are companies which have proprietary know-how in specialized field. As an analogy, oil company is the landlord who own the orchard, they employ contractors to harvest the fruits as they can't and unable to do everything by themselves.

    Basic salary for fresh graduate who joined as JFE (junior field engineer) in oilfield service is much higher than other job. For subsurface logging and drilling, Schlumberger paid RM4800 per month for basic salary. JFE were also paid the same daily rig allowance like the oil company staff. So, their take home pay in the beginning is around RM6000-8000 depend on how many days they spent in rig. This was 30 years ago...

    Field engineers don’t have fix work rotation. They are always at the rig until the job is completed. Sometimes, they have to spend more than 1 month in offshore. They also don’t have working hours, they work day and night if required, just have to find time to rest in between. It is a physically highly demanding job and constantly exposed to occupational and safety risk. There is no such thing as good pay and easy job in the world, at least I haven’t found one.

    After 2-3 years slogging in the freaking rig, JFE will have the chance to become field engineer. As a rule of thumb, if one can’t make it to field engineer after 4 years, there is no chance he can remain there. The pay scheme for field engineer is a lot more interesting. They are still getting their basic salary (higher than JFE basic salary) and the rig allowance, but they are now entitled to job bonus. Job bonus is where the serious money comes in, normally around 1.5% to 3% of the value of service contract. Generally, people don’t bother about their salary and rig allowance anymore once they are entitled to job bonus..

    This is a job that Asian can’t work long due to work-family balance, in my opinion. Those who can continue above 40 years old and still in offshore are normally kwailoh... Most quit the job after 10 years, get a second degree like MBA and find a desk job.. but have to be prepared to get at least 50% less in income..
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  6. #201
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    30 years ago was a recession. Many of my friends started work at less than RM 1000 per month. Doctor's starting salary was RM 1360

  7. #202
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    A different picture in the O&G upstream industry. Oil price started to pick up from USD17 in 1987 and surged above USD23 in 1990 due to gulf war when Iraq invaded Kuwait.

    But the main stimulus for the local upstream industry at that time was the E&P expansion exercise of Petronas and the localization of their expat staff. It is a condition in the oilfield contracts that recruitment and development of local staff is a must. All oilfields are belong to Petronas, foreign firms like ExxonMobil and Shell are their sharing partners to join-developed the fields.
    粗缯大布裹生涯,腹有诗书气自华

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by cskok8 View Post
    30 years ago was a recession. Many of my friends started work at less than RM 1000 per month. Doctor's starting salary was RM 1360
    Serious? I didn't even know it. Let see 1986/7 I think I was on RM6000 plus company perks. An occupational hazard then was dangerously working with pretty models and hotties, all wanting to be 'starlets' of sort in the small screen.
    It was tough, then and now, selling people dreams and aspirations and things they don't really need. Creating a 'want' is tough... But we do have a certain skill (charm? Pukau? Kong tau?) to get people to feel like a square, or a squid if they don't buy what we sublimally told them to buy... Yes, even in recessionary time. Life is a beach and a bitch...
    in luv with bikes...in lust with AphroditeS AWAS! Suspek is an Avid procurer to myths, lies, legends, folklores, i-ching, rumors, misinformation, cakap-ayam, spɹoʍ uʍop ǝpısdn puɐ˙˙DLL .
    p/s Take all the above with a XL salted duck egg, wash down with 2fingers of sodium hypochoride, and suck on to a pebble size tmn negara Rock salt

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by cskok8 View Post
    30 years ago was a recession. Many of my friends started work at less than RM 1000 per month. Doctor's starting salary was RM 1360
    The "incremental incomes" of most doctors, lawyers and accountants are in exponential manner though their starting can be "relatively" low.
    有才而性缓定属大才,有智而气和斯为大智.

  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by tupai View Post
    It was tough, then and now, selling people dreams and aspirations and things they don't really need. Creating a 'want' is tough... But we do have a certain skill (charm? Pukau? Kong tau?) to get people to feel like a square, or a squid if they don't buy what we sublimally told them to buy....

    The shit phone that cost RM3399 or RM3993 is good example....

    People queue overnight or pay someone to queue overnight to buy this piece of shits...
    粗缯大布裹生涯,腹有诗书气自华

  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by opulant View Post
    The shit phone that cost RM3399 or RM3993 is good example....

    People queue overnight or pay someone to queue overnight to buy this piece of shits...

    But but but the boost to own ego is priceless. It's a great sense of personal achievement going after 'show pieces' after 'owning' a house, a car, a mate... The 'respect' and peer recognition and envy should be worthy of the lifestyle of a 'successful metropolis' person. No?
    in luv with bikes...in lust with AphroditeS AWAS! Suspek is an Avid procurer to myths, lies, legends, folklores, i-ching, rumors, misinformation, cakap-ayam, spɹoʍ uʍop ǝpısdn puɐ˙˙DLL .
    p/s Take all the above with a XL salted duck egg, wash down with 2fingers of sodium hypochoride, and suck on to a pebble size tmn negara Rock salt

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by tupai View Post
    But but but the boost to own ego is priceless. It's a great sense of personal achievement going after 'show pieces' after 'owning' a house, a car, a mate... The 'respect' and peer recognition and envy should be worthy of the lifestyle of a 'successful metropolis' person. No?
    The above is for 98.99% of people...

    The remain 1.01% have greater sense of personal achievements because they don't need to "show pieces" or "own something" to gain "respect", "envy" and "peer recognition" in order to be regarded as "successful metropol person"...

    I'm sure you are in the 1.01% as you don't need to drive around in a 4 wheels with a jumping feline or a big B emblem to tell the majority 98.99% you are "successful metropol folks. ...
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  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by HTCHONG View Post
    The "incremental incomes" of most doctors, lawyers and accountants are in exponential manner though their starting can be "relatively" low.
    ​In a "standard" career path of an established organization, fresh graduates are put in various positions to gain working experience and know-how about the business of the organization, irrespective of whether the job is related to their academic background.

    Those who shine will take on key position later and become a generalist, know a bit of this and a bit of that. The salary scheme is normally within what the market is offered and there are good perks in the remuneration package when moving up the corporate ladder like company car, designated car park, share options, maybe a corner room office, etc.

    Generalist can be very vulnerable in the bad time unless their track record can demonstrate otherwise. In other words, these people are likely to have sustainable good life within the same organization provided the organization is resilient to bad time and better still, recession-proof. Once they have to leave their comfort nest, their employability is a question mark.

    There is only one CEO, COO, CFO or whatever O in an organization. The middle layers like GM, department head, etc. are very vulnerable because their lifestyle over the years in senior position are not easy to downgrade to a more simple life.

    Sometimes, I look at my colleagues (younger and older) who fit the description above. Most people just can't have a simple life. When they can afford a Camry, they want a C class and they get it by loan. When they can afford a corner detached house, they want a bungalow and they get it by loan. I guess they belong to the 98.99% of people described in post #206...
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  14. #209
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    Food for thought (of course this is made up to prove a point):
    Say someone you love deeply has been hospitalized in Malaysia due to a brain concussion. You have the following choices, assuming you want to save the person:
    a) A doctor who is a MD, but a generalist and but has a lot of experience
    b) A doctor who is a MD and a new Neurosurgeon from somewhere but the hospital refuse to divulge from which university
    c) A doctor who is a MD and a Neurosurgeon just graduated from Johns Hopkins
    d) A doctor who is a MD and a experienced Neurosurgeon from Johns Hopkins
    e) A doctor who is a MD and a experienced Neurosurgeon from local university
    f) Someone who do not have a medical degree but a senior person in the hospital

    My problem is I will never let (f) touch my loved one in this case. Other choices I am guessing all of us know whom we prefer and in what order. Each to his preference.


    Now, change the question to who gets paid the most for doing what. Do you all see the problem?

  15. #210
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    Yes, the problem is when things are run as business, the one that can grow the business with good profit command the highest pay. Generalist corporate manager fits perfectly in this category.

    That's why people chose to be generalist as chances are they can climb up the corporate ladder faster and get pay rise faster than a specialist, generally speaking.

    But specialist is difficult to replace.. I know a Malaysian from a US oil major. He is now 67 years old and still comfortably get his employment contract renewed every 2 years..
    粗缯大布裹生涯,腹有诗书气自华

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