Turbocharged and Naturally Aspirated (non-turbo) cars. What's your experience?
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Thread: Turbocharged and Naturally Aspirated (non-turbo) cars. What's your experience?

  1. #1
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    Turbocharged and Naturally Aspirated (non-turbo) cars. What's your experience?

    My only experience with turbo cars is the year 2009 Pug 308 THP which has a 1.6L direct injection turbocharged engine. This is the first batch car and has 140 hp and 240 nm of torque coming in from 1400 rpm.

    The power is not higher than my current Ford Focus Sport 2.0L (non-turbo) which has 170 hp. The torque is much higher than the Focus' 202 nm though. What this means is the the smaller turbo car is quicker off the line but given enough road the 2.0L car, with more hp, will achieve a higher top end.

    The Pug is not a light car. It is in the same C segment and weight class as the Focus. It is also a lemon, a French lemon and I sold it, looking like new, with only 32,000 km on the odometer.

    Turbo cars run hotter, has more parts and components. It also mean higher wear and tear resulting in higher maintenance cost. I read on a car forum the Pug's turbo unit alone costs 14k. That's what you'll have to pay if you are an owner out of warranty.

    Though the power and torque of a turbocharged car is awesome I will most probably not buy another one.
    " In the land of the blind the one-eyed-jack is king."

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    The vws are mostly turbocharged and if I am not wrong most of the problems is in the dsg gearbox. There was a group of them who went to their hq to demonstrate about their problems with the service centers and the service

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    Yes, the VWs problem is mostly the DSG7, 7-speed dry gearbox made by Borg Warner. The Pug's is mainly the carbon build-up in the cylinder head and a host of other issues.

    The current Ford Focus also has a dry dual clutch gearbox which is called Powershift, but it is 6 speed and made by Getrag, Germany and less problematic. The turbocharged Focus ST and S-Max use the same gearbox but with a wet clutch to deal with the heat generated by the higher torque.

    The generic name for such gearboxes is DCT for Dual Clutch Transmission.
    " In the land of the blind the one-eyed-jack is king."

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    Quote Originally Posted by cml View Post
    The vws are mostly turbocharged and if I am not wrong most of the problems is in the dsg gearbox. There was a group of them who went to their hq to demonstrate about their problems with the service centers and the service
    I had two units of VW Golf GTI using the DSG gearbox and both worked fine - at least in the time I owned them....the first one for about a year in 2008 and my niece "borrowed" it when she graduated from Northwestern U so I bought another one sometime in 2009... the turbocharger worked well too... I find the VW turbochargers are ok... although I think the latest CGI type of chargers on Mercedes works so much better... a 1.6cc C200 CGI is such a powerful car churning out so much bhp and torque... wow...

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    The VW Golf GTi uses the wet clutch DSG6 and seem to be more hardy than the DSG7.

    Turbo-charging is basically forced induction. More air being forced into the combustion chamber means cleaner burn to deliver more power. It is just like a blacksmith using a bellow to blow air into the furnace to make the flame stronger and hotter.

    An internal combustion engine has poor efficiency. A turbocharger improves the efficiency.
    " In the land of the blind the one-eyed-jack is king."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry T View Post
    .....The current Ford Focus also has a dry dual clutch gearbox which is called Powershift, but it is 6 speed and made by Getrag, Germany and less problematic. The turbocharged Focus ST and S-Max use the same gearbox but with a wet clutch to deal with the heat generated by the higher torque.

    The generic name for such gearboxes is DCT for Dual Clutch Transmission.
    Getrag is a company owned by Ford Motor Company. After Volvo Cars acquired by FMC, Ford incorporated this auto transmission gearbox into all models of Volvo Cars from the S40 2.0 (NA) to the turbocharged S40, S60, S80 and the cross-country XC60 and XC90. The new V40 which was launched about one year ago in Malaysia also come with this Powershift transmission.

    I have driven the Volvo S series for years and still drive it to work. I love the instant power output from the turbocharged engine. No problem with their Powershift gearbox and turbo-charger. If there is any negative comment about Volvo, it is the sterling wheel which in my opinion is heavier than BMW.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercure View Post
    Getrag is a company owned by Ford Motor Company. After Volvo Cars acquired by FMC, Ford incorporated this auto transmission gearbox into all models of Volvo Cars from the S40 2.0 (NA) to the turbocharged S40, S60, S80 and the cross-country XC60 and XC90. The new V40 which was launched about one year ago in Malaysia also come with this Powershift transmission.

    I have driven the Volvo S series for years and still drive it to work. I love the instant power output from the turbocharged engine. No problem with their Powershift gearbox and turbo-charger. If there is any negative comment about Volvo, it is the sterling wheel which in my opinion is heavier than BMW.

    Even though FMC no longer own Volvo there are still benefits in sharing platforms, engines and components. Many other car makers are going down this route.
    " In the land of the blind the one-eyed-jack is king."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercure View Post
    ...Regardless of highway-driving or city-driving, accident can just happen in a most bizarre manner. A car with stronger body and frame, and equipped with proven safety features help at that split-second moment..
    Henry, allow me to share experience not directly related to turbocharger --> experience on safety.

    We know, turbocharged car is powerful and very responsive the moment you press the accelerator, not to mention when you attempt to flat the accelerator !! Therefore, the controls for vehicle safety is expected to be more advance and this include both active and passive safety..

    I find among all the safety features of my car, two of them are rather useful.

    1. EBA (electronic brake assist).
    It works when the sensors at the brake pedal detect there is a fast attempt (quick force) apply on the brake pedal for emergency braking. When EBA kicks in, less effort from the driver (this mean less time) is needed for emergency braking. This shorter time (in less than few tenths of second) is proven decisive to avoid collision.

    2. Adaptive cruise control.
    At we have to observe the speed limit of 110 (or max 115 km/h) on NS highway. Driving at this speed with a turbocharged 2 liter car is very boring and can be dangerous. I normally will use the cruise control when the traffic condition is suitable on highway. The good part of adaptive cruise control is - it can automatically adjust speed based on preset speed limit in order to maintain a proper distance between vehicles in the same lane. If the front vehicle slows down or another object is detected, the system sends a signal to the engine or braking system to decelerate. Then, when the road is clear, the system will re-accelerate the vehicle back to the set speed.

    This explain why I wrote this comment previously...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mercure View Post
    ...The ultimate objective for car management software is to deliver less fuel usage and more accurate safety management (speaking from my car). Engine software is so blardy complicated now and sometimes I have a phobia that the software wrongly diagnosed the car and wrongly assessed the road conditions and gave false instruction to the different components of the car..

  9. #9
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    For obvious reasons based on perceived cost, fuel consumption, practical aspect, maintenance, resale value, turbo cars ain't exactly a popular choice or widely seen in this land. Owners would shop or choose a turbo cars for specific purpose or particular liking.
    We just don't have the roads to exploit the thrills of a turbo charged or powerful engine it may possess. Screaming down our highways is asking for trouble, either with speed traps or asking for fatality.
    To me its a nice thought to afford a turbo car with that extra energy on tap, but I wouldn't be one potential owner. If forsaking all those reasons mentioned, I could see 1 turbo car for every five NA cars in this land. Just my view.

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    I have a contact in this Swedish company and he will usually send some good offers to me. A few months ago, he told me there is a demo car for sale. It is a V40 2.0 T5. This is a 5 cylinders beast with 213 hp. The car is 9 months old with mileage of about 21,000km. OTR price for new car is RM198K. Interested parties can bid from RM140k onwards. I did not bid but I passed this info to a relative in JB and she got it slightly above RM145K.

    When I was in JB few weeks ago to attend a funeral, I saw her driving this car and I can see she enjoyed every bits of it !! I demonstrated a safety feature of this car to her which I believe new car owner would not know.

    I stacked a few plastic chairs to the height of a half adult (or just say the height of a 10 years old kid) and drove towards the chairs at a speed of 30km/h. The car stopped by itself before it knocked the chairs and without me applying the brake. The detection system of the car can detect pedestrian (an object) and automatically apply the brakes if the driver does not. If a collision is imminent the car gives the driver an audible and visual warning and brakes hard thru EBA if the driver does not react quickly enough. At speeds under 35 km/h a collision is prevented, while at higher speeds it may not be possible to avoid a collision but the impact and subsequent injuries are reduced.

    This pedestrian detection system is not the first because Mercedes and BMW have already introduced pedestrian detection in night vision displays, but Volvo is the first to couple a detection system with automatic braking.

  11. #11
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    For 145k..thats a damn good deal for a car of this pedigree.. No comparison!
    My own idea for a Volvo in all its glory and sense.. The 122 model!. Thats it!..anything else is fanciful. I actually have a friend of my age who own one, still driving it around.
    If I were able and younger..I would love to own a fully restored Jaguar Mk2 or E-type. Sheer class!

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    When talking about turbo cars one must differentiate between a turbo everyday car and a turbo performance car.

    Turbo everyday cars, unlike the turbo performance cars, are built with efficiency as a priority. It means lower fuel consumption, lower engine capacity for higher power & torque and cleaner emission. The latter category will still have all these but with a bias towards speed. The trade-off for turbo cars is a higher rate of wear and tear resulting in a higher maintenance cost. You cannot get something for nothing.

    Although the Japanese manufacturers are a bit late compared to the Europeans, both Honda and Toyota are coming out with a range of small capacity turbocharged engines for their cars.


    Mercure,
    There is always this worry the management system in modern cars might go cuckoo. Remember the problem Toyota faced a couple of years ago with their drive-by-wire system in the Camry? It resulted in the defective units prone to sudden acceleration and causing accidents. Lawsuits followed. There was a massive recall.
    " In the land of the blind the one-eyed-jack is king."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercure View Post
    This pedestrian detection system is not the first because Mercedes and BMW have already introduced pedestrian detection in night vision displays, but Volvo is the first to couple a detection system with automatic braking.
    The current Ford Focus Sport+ Hatchback and Titanium+ Sedan (both full specs version) has the same auto braking feature. Ford call it "Active City Stop." Not bad for a car costing a little below 130k.

    http://www.ford.net.my/all_new_focus/
    " In the land of the blind the one-eyed-jack is king."

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry T View Post
    The current Ford Focus Sport+ Hatchback and Titanium+ Sedan (both full specs version) has the same auto braking feature. Ford call it "Active City Stop." Not bad for a car costing a little below 130k.

    http://www.ford.net.my/all_new_focus/
    Yes, I believe both Ford and Volvo benefited from their previous collaboration. So far, the new owner of Volvo Cars (Geely from PRC) let the Swedish to have free hands in the car development and I think they should keep it this way..

    The Ford Focus is a good car. In my opinion, Ford Focus is a better car and more value for money when compare to Japanese and Korean cars in the similar price range..

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