Just Curious.

[Dervish]

A couple of years ago, I attended a Buddhist funeral and witnessed something I did not understand. Perhaps Ng, (the Buddhist) will be able to throw some light on this matter?

At the funeral, I saw half a dozen (if not more) foreigners dressed in saffron coloured robes, each with a brown bag (made of fabric) and if I'm not mistaken a straw fan. They walked in circles around the coffin and chanted. A large crowd knelt on the floor near the coffin and chanted in unison. It took quite a while. The foreigners looked like Indians but did not speak like one.

The grieving host (son of the deceased) knew I was a Christian. He came to me and told me that I needn't use the joss-stick if I'm not comfortable with it. (This is what I called "respecting another's beliefs.") I paid my last respect by walking up to the coffin and bowing my head three times, without the joss-stick. I don't understand Ng's concerns over the joss-stick though. The way I look at it, there's nothing wrong with holding the joss-stick as long as your mind is in the right place. You are giving your last respect to the deceased. On the other hand, if you're using the joss-stick to worship an idol, or ask for "Empat Nombor Ekor", ahh ... that's a different story ... but I digress. (Note: This is my personal view. I do not speak for Christianity at large. Besides, I am no expert when it comes to religion.)

Back to the funeral.

After the chanting is done, the men in robes (monks?) sat down on chairs at a long table where vegetarian food was served. A member of the grieving family clasping a jug, took the first empty glass, knelt down on the ground beside the first monk, fill and serve the drinks, stood up, walked to the next, and knelt down again to repeat the entire ritual. The monks nod their heads to acknowledge the reverence. I heard someone say that the meals had to be taken before noon.

My question:

1. Why must the meal be taken before noon?
2. Is it common for monks to receive so much reverence?

Note to Administrator: This thread is to address a curiosity. If you think it will trigger another Religious War, then by all means delete it.

[Sentinel]

I was at a wedding of a relative... on my wife's side and I believe they were observing traditional style Chinese wedding. There were lots of guests during a ceremony when the bride leaves the house and join the groom and she then has to pray and nod in front of her ancestor's altar and lots of food were placed as offering... including some sweet red plain buns with lotus fillings. Just before she left the house, the sweet red plain buns with lotus fillings were passed around by the bride's "busy body lady" as a traditional treat to all in the house to send her off...

"Some" (of a different religious faith) refused to eat because "these buns were offered as food to devils..." I am just curious about this... can someone please care to explain?

p.s. I have 3 or 4 more "Just curious questions" but I will need to post them one by one coz I am on the road in a 4X4 in Kalimantan Timur so have to be in an area where broadband is 4 bar and above...

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[Dervish]

As a kid, I pooh-poohed the idea that "devils" eat the food offered on tables at temples. I could not imagine something spiritual eating something physical. The science just don't add up. Then someone told the first of many horror stories. A skeptic wrapped a blanket over himself and went under one such table at a temple during a festival. The waiting was long and he feel asleep. He was awaken past midnight by some sound. He peeked from under the table and saw demonic creatures sniffing at the food. He also saw maggots crawling all over the food. Apparently, he was so spooked by this scene that he lost his mind. This story was used by officials at a temple near my house (when I was a kid) to put cynics in their place.

As a young Christian, I was told never to touch food offered to the "devils" because such food are deemed unclean. Yet I read in the books of Matthews and Romans (can't remember the verses) that all food is clean. It is our mind which is unclean ... or something to this effect.

Therefore, I accept food offered to me with good intent even if they've been first offered to the ancestor. I pray for my God to bless and sanctify the food and to make them clean. Whether or not I put such food into my mouth is a different matter. I don't, when I remember the maggots.

Again, this is just my personal view. I could be wrong.

[Sentinel]

I recently witnessed a divorce where the husband divorced the wife after 20 years of marriage. The wife apparently "converted" her mother-in-law (the husband's mother lah...) on her deathbed so she could go to her heaven. No one knew about this until the wife insisted the mother-in-law was a Christian and insisted the funeral rites all be conducted according to Christianity.... all hell broke loose and the siblings all were arguing and quarrelling while the old lady laid there dead....

Just curious... if all sins could be forgiven with acceptance of Christianity on the death bed, why the heck are we all so good? Why don't be a havoc and at the last moment be forgiven and still be in the queue at the pearly gates to meet St. Peter's for the key to the villa?

p/s: "Kalau segala-galanya dosa bisa dihapuskan begitu sahaja dengan hanya pohon maaf, apa gunanya shorga dan naraka?" - Bung Soekarno - more a political quote but I believe is also applicable here...

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[jan tomaswaki]

I am a Buddhist ,whatever i do i,ll make it simple.Anything going to the altar must be vegeterian.We live in this world today,we make make full use of it.I think Christian also cannot fullfil the 10 commandments,rite?

[rospet]

I recently witnessed a divorce where the husband divorced the wife after 20 years of marriage. The wife apparently "converted" her mother-in-law (the husband's mother lah...) on her deathbed so she could go to her heaven. No one knew about this until the wife insisted the mother-in-law was a Christian and insisted the funeral rites all be conducted according to Christianity.... all hell broke loose and the siblings all were arguing and quarrelling while the old lady laid there dead....

Just curious... if all sins could be forgiven with acceptance of Christianity on the death bed, why the heck are we all so good? Why don't be a havoc and at the last moment be forgiven and still be in the queue at the pearly gates to meet St. Peter's for the key to the villa?

p/s: "Kalau segala-galanya dosa bisa dihapuskan begitu sahaja dengan hanya pohon maaf, apa gunanya shorga dan naraka?" - Bung Soekarno - more a political quote but I believe is also applicable here...

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In the first place, i really dont understand why the wife want to do it " secara diam diam " ? Any respect to the husband and the family members or not ? if there is nothing wrong for her mother to convert to Christian, why she want to do it this way ? It is nothing wrong to believe in whatever religion but is the way of the person by doing it this way.

[Challenger]

I am a Buddhist ,whatever i do i,ll make it simple.Anything going to the altar must be vegeterian.We live in this world today,we make make full use of it.I think Christian also cannot fullfil the 10 commandments,rite?

"Thou shall not kill" in the 10 commandments actually meant Jews shall not kill fellow Jews.

There's this bible quote that many like to use "Do not do to others what you do not want others to do to you" or something like that. Actually it was Confucius who said that a few centuries BC.

Back to this "just curious" topic, I read a book last nite about this parasitoid wasp. These parasitoid wasps lay their eggs in living insects and caterpillars. The sting of the wasp contains chemicals that paralyses the prey (e.g. caterpillar). But the sting does not kill the caterpillar. The eggs hatch inside the caterpillar into larva/larvae which start feeding on the internal organs of the caterpillar. These larvae starts with fatty tissues and digestive system of the caterpillar (so as not to kill the host) and ends with the heart and nervous system of the caterpillar. The baby wasps would then emerge from the dead caterpillar.

Then I thought about the poor caterpillar. What a horrible way to die, being eaten alive but cannot do a single thing. And it brought me to think about this:- Which horrible Creator would design such a cruel reproduction cycle?

Actually, the Creator didn't do it, nothing to do with the Creator, no parasitoid wasp Creator. This is just how nature works, evolution, check and balance.

[Naka]

I used the joss-sticks a few times even though I am of a different faith.

What's all these fuss?

[kwchang]

Dervish started this thread to get some answers regarding an observation
Sentinel put up another question

So many people of different faiths and culture and NOT ONE of you even tried to give some opinion/answer?
All you flers did was to put up other unrelated comments

If this gets no where, I will close this thread

[tupai]

Ok, Ok....to keep the 1eye-open man in check. I shalt attempt to demystify the 'mysteries'.

The question:
1. Why must the meal be taken before noon?
2. Is it common for monks to receive so much reverence?" ~ Dervish.

The answer:
1. Because they are hungry as they skipped breakfast? Nah, I jest thee. It is for the reason that the afternoon after brunch, is reserved for scripture studies, meditation and contemplative exercises (plus some gardening lah). And equally important, never for a mo to forget being alive is suffering (more for the have nots lah) and the objective of mo-feeelin or nothingness nirvana do come in flashes to emphatise, to share the pang of hunger and pain by those who have noughts.

2. Because of the brown/saffron/yellow/grey robe they are wearing. The robe is a representation/a metaphor of sort, of the Lord Buddha. The monk themselves are 'irrelevant'. Ala we 'respect' the black robed man/woman with a curly short white wig, sitting on the high chair. A metaphor that presides, weighs, sentences and executes justice for aggrieved mankind.

Please read my signature for better comprehension. Have a great weekend

Yang Brain Boner ToonIstimewaUtamaXlatotupai

[fRaNkY]

My grandma passed away when i was young but i noticed my catholic relative burn incense at the funeral while another protestant relative dont.

When the protestant mom passed away he converted her and gave her a christian funeral, where the mom never step in a church before and is a taois. His brother and other relative were very upset by whta he did.

Just my observation.

[Sentinel]

My grandma passed away when i was young but i noticed my catholic relative burn incense at the funeral while another protestant relative dont.

When the protestant mom passed away he converted her and gave her a christian funeral, where the mom never step in a church before and is a taois. His brother and other relative were very upset by whta he did.

Just my observation.

Very similar to the case I posted above in Post #4...

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[aursong]

My question:

1. Why must the meal be taken before noon?
2. Is it common for monks to receive so much reverence?

1. Is for the whole ritual to complete. The spirit of the passed will linger around if there are still something undone. Including meal.
2. To each its own. Some big-shots monks travel in big car, first class, stay in big house, use most updated gadgets. Same with some big-shots pastors. People give they receive loh...

my RM0.02

Cheers

[aursong]

Just curious... if all sins could be forgiven with acceptance of Christianity on the death bed, why the heck are we all so good? Why don't be a havoc and at the last moment be forgiven and still be in the queue at the pearly gates to meet St. Peter's for the key to the villa?

I think you need someone like JESUS to take all SINS in order for all to got to heaven. since there isn't someone since JESUS, we all have SINS and probably are going to hell...

Cheers...

[Dervish]

Just curious... if all sins could be forgiven with acceptance of Christianity on the death bed, why the heck are we all so good? Why don't be a havoc and at the last moment be forgiven and still be in the queue at the pearly gates to meet St. Peter's for the key to the villa?

This was one of the first few questions I asked as a young Christian. I was given a whole lot of scripture verses which did not address my curiosity. Perhaps, people just simply "do not know"? For example, I have asked around regarding the Buddhist monk noon lunch deadline. Many of my Buddhist friends just simply do not know. People embrace a religion and follow its ritual without really understanding why certain things had to be done in a certain way. You're a Buddhist too, Sentinel. I reckon you too do not know the answer. If you had, you would have answered me right at the beginning.

"God works in mysterious ways which we cannot explain with human logic." (This is what I usually get when my questions hit home.)

I have stopped asking this question though. As far as personal opinion goes, I think it had everything to do with one's ulterior motive. We don't know what another is thinking but God does. If a sinner truly repented his sin and meant it at the last moment, the probability of him being forgiven is higher than the one who feign his repentance in order to benefit his conscience. At this point, my human logic tells me that not all sinners who repent "at the last moment" will be forgiven. Any Christian brothers/sisters reading this is welcomed to PM me if they felt I'm headed the wrong way.

Also, the sinner who planned to accept Christ "at the last moment" may not get that chance if he died a sudden death. That could happen too, couldn't it?

In the first place, i really dont understand why the wife want to do it " secara diam diam " ? Any respect to the husband and the family members or not ? if there is nothing wrong for her mother to convert to Christian, why she want to do it this way ? It is nothing wrong to believe in whatever religion but is the way of the person by doing it this way.

I will not debate the right or wrong of this but I do agree with you. The wife should have discussed this matter with her husband if she respected him (at all) as the "head of the family." In any case, this is a huge decision and best done in the open. Then again, I do not know the true circumstances of the situation and is therefore truly not in a position to judge.

My grandma passed away when i was young but i noticed my catholic relative burn incense at the funeral while another protestant relative dont.

When the protestant mom passed away he converted her and gave her a christian funeral, where the mom never step in a church before and is a taois. His brother and other relative were very upset by whta he did.

When the protestant mom passed away, someone converted her?

To what?

Catholicism?

Wouldn't it be fitting for a protestant mom to be given a Christian burial?

Not sure I understand you, Franky.