Punishment

[ahtal68]

How would you punish a lower primary pupil for not having his exercise book for a certain subject?
Would you, 1) tell the pupil to copy the exercises down in a piece
of blank paper?
2) ask the pupil to standup or stand outside of the class during
the subject period?
OR
in my child's case, tell the pupil "go to hell" throw his bag on the floor of the class and drag the poor kid to another class by the child's shirt collar and humiliate him in front of another class of his peers.
All this from a teacher who teaches "Moral" and to a student who scores A in the subject.
I am boiling in frustration/anger/dissapointment on this matter, that I could not go to sleep, thinking that, for the time this teacher took to do all this, she could easily asked for a reason why there was no book (prank by fellow classmate, who returned his book after recess) instead putting the pupil through such humiliation that my child is asking me, if I could school him at home.

I am going to school tomm to demand an explanation on terms/degrees/types of punishment meted out to 2nd year primary students. If there are any legal eagles out there, I need to know if I have the right to confront the said party personally or go thru the head of school (which I know will come to nothing)?

[empress_julz]

usually, teachers don't play any "punishment" roles these days. they do tell the kids off, but when things get out of hand, they inform the parents and allow them to deal with the child appropriately.

but i'm so sorry to hear this happened to your child... if i were the parent i would be furious!!!

you should look at contacting a newspaper about this. i think this is really bad ethics, and if teachers in malaysia are acting this way it should come out so we can assess what the education ministry is doing, what kind of training and assessment teachers get, etc. etc. etc.

///ej

[jericho]

ahtal68,

sorry to hear what happened to your child.

lodge a complain with the state education department. and they will carry out an investigation on it.

good luck

[CASSA318]

The Consumers Association of Subang and Shah Alam, Selangor (CASSA) deeply regrets to hear of this matter.

Since we have dealt with similar issues before in a fair and equitable manner, we herewith advise ahtal68 to please contact CASSA President & Legal Adviser Dr. Jacob George for some pertinent input and advice.

He can be contacted on mobile phone - 012-3664444


J.Govind
Legal Officer (Hon)
CASSA SECRETARIAT

[ahtal68]

EJ/Jericho, thanks for the sympathy. EJ the teachers of those days are indeed becoming extinct. The love for teaching by positive reinforcement is rapidly diminishing I went to school today to see this teacher with a heavy heart since my boy was almost in tears begging me not to.
This is exactly what happened. It seems the teacher had asked the pupils to take out their exercise books, one child who did not bring his book. got up to tell her so, she in turn said (so she says)
"ok, siapa tidak bawa buku keluar dari kelas saya, saya tak mahu ajar kamu"
Children being themselves, some stood up and started walking out and this teacher was so frustrated, she jumped on my boy who was nearest to her.
She told me she did not do the things as my son claims, but I being a mother, went early and talked some of his classmates who concur with what happened and then some.
I confronted her saying that is not true and would you please explain the logic in acting as she did and what lesson did she think my son has learned from this experience. To this I got not only an unsatisfactory reply but also a somewhat forced apology.
I then left her with a question "would you stand for it if this happened to your child" (BTW, she is a 'Cik").
I plan to take this to the PIBG, not to focus on my case but generally to make the teachers understand and a punishment that consists of humiliation/degradation does not bring positive results.
As for my son, he will always think twice before approaching her for anything and remeber this incident whenever he sees this teacher, which , I think is the heaviest punishment a child could have.
I am still very upset over this and forever mar my respect for of the teaching profession.

[xweird]

I'm sorry to hear what happened... during my schooling days, there were a fair share of terrible teachers who seem to take punishment out of hand. But not to this extent of humiliation and degradation. I believe a physical punishment (such as a simple rotan cane) on the hand will suffice (just as a symbolic gesture).. but to shame and show tantrum in front of another class (can you imagine that!!) is really out of hand.

If these teachers have kids of their own, they will think twice before embarking on such ambitious disciplinary action...

[kwchang]

This is outrageous. I have school going kids myself and if that incident had happened to my kids, I will demand nothing less than a transfer of that teacher. Children are highly impressionable and the role of the teacher is to promote a eagerness to pursue knowledge with the idea that school is fun.

[fonzie]

Don't get mad, get even....! -

On a more serious note...
I am inclined to summise that the teacher has some emotional problems....a case of low self-esteem...

I think the teacher has lost a momentary control seeing his/her "star pupil" now not following rules/convention. In short, teacher just pop a fuse somewhere....

Over to some more qualified views out there....!

Cheers!
FonZie

[joker2107]

i'm with kwchang. get the teacher transferred out. this is not only to "punish the offender". the fact that the teacher is gone will go a long way in helping the victim overcome the trauma.

i wud believe that the principal has already been informed. then be prepared for some ding-donging formalities such as reports to the jabatan and investigations etc.

what's missing in our edu system today, no not the pri n sec sch, but the edu in teachers' training is child psyhcology and the evolution of minds. kids today are of a totally new breed. my own 8 yr old is proving a great challenge, not just her but the similar thinking of her peers with whom i am close. and they are just a decade behind my nephews and nieces who see things in yet another different light. honestly, keeping pace with them is making me much more than a jeckyll and hyde - i need a different personalitiy to intergrate with each different age group even it is well within my own extended family.

if ever there is a course on understanding and reaching out to kids, i'd nominate xweird. for all your empathy, i'm surprised that u can still propose the rod for not having a book (perhaps the first offence at that!).

with regards bringing the matter up to the pibg, fine, but i think one must also define what one expects from such a reference. is it just a formal complaint to be registered? is it to get the sch to take action? then the next big q is to understand the confines within which a pibg is bound. there is such a thing as constitution in a pibg. and the clauses are very much dictated by the jabatan, regulating what a pibg can and cannot do. that means yr expectations may not be within the ambit of the pibg's role.

for me, i made sure that i get into the pibg board. as a team we provide motivation courses for the teachers. if there are short courses on child psychology or the likes, pls let me know - i will definitely get the teachers in my kid's sch to attend. thats the best i can do to preclude unpleasant actions by teachers who cannot "behave like a kid".

[xweird]

joker2107:

if ever there is a course on understanding and reaching out to kids, i'd nominate xweird. for all your empathy, i'm surprised that u can still propose the rod for not having a book (perhaps the first offence at that!).

perhaps it's the way i wrote it, or perhaps it's some misinterpretation,,,. i was merely sharing my school-going experience.. i've been caned/punched lots of times by my class teacher for simple wrongs: not bringing book, coming late, not finishing homework.....

pardon the slip-up :P

[thelaw48]

Ahtal68, I am with you. Don't hesitate to do what you have to do. We are living in a pespectable society, this teacher is a 'mis-fit' to our soecity & should be barred from teaching.

Very often you find moral teachers having similar behaviuor. The only reason that I can think of is that these category of teachers are the 'mis-fits' kind that can't teach anything else & are sidelined to take charge of the "seems to be less important subjects like MORAL". By doing this our children future has to suffer.

The schools do not reliaze that MORAL subjects are the most important & cannot be dropped for any alternative subjects like we do in any other subjects. Moreover, moral can only be tough by good leadership examples, otherwise why waste time; we can teach our own kids with our little knowlege that we ve learned from our school days. At least they are not spoit becoz of somebody's fault.

The school has to be made responsible for keeping such teachers.

[CH]

I would like to share my personal experience.

During my primary school years, around standard 4 or 5, it was a English spelling issue and some of us get the answer wrong, below the passing marks, includes yours truly.

We were asked to crawl out from the classroom, not walk out, and do the corrections outside the walkway next to the basketball court, under the hot sun (that was around 11:30 am).

I will never forget this incident because I felt so bad. The teacher is lucky, because at that time, our parents thinks that punishment from the teacher is good for us ...

Yet another incident, a temp English teacher was crying and run back to teachers room, because I refused to crawl out of her class and the reason is that I questions the mark she gave me for the exam - she failed me and another classmate pass because she TAUGHT him during the exam ...

The result is obvious. My command of English has never improved since until now.

Please, punishment will only damage ones life, NOT helping.

[joker2107]

no offence meant, xweird. i actually doubted yr intentions to use the cane.

there's no way one can compare the yesteryears with today. in those days, discipline was a job for the school and teachers. parents just sit back and reap the rewards of the teachers' bad names. case of lembu punya susu sapi punya nama.

the experiences quoted here r nothing compared with the humiliation i've gone thru.

i come fr a financially deprived background. when i did not pay my sch fees, i was ordered to stand outside the class while my classmates, none of whom in their innocence understood poverty mocked me to depression and isolation. in my first year i cut the pieces of paper for art too large for the teacher's liking. the bitch peeled it off the art block and glued it on my face and paraded me in class b4 appointing me door sentry for the next hour or two. the hm on his regular rounds saw me in the disgusting mask and added some decorations to my bottom there and then. double punishment for an offence a 6+ yr old mind could not comprehend. my hokkien friend once told me how to say penis in his dialect. i related it to an indian friend. he in turn told the teacher. it ended with six of the best for me - the others got off scot free. i was only 9 yrs old then. as a 12 yr old, i had a crazy pe teacher who succeeded to get an obese male student with enlarged breasts stop schooling out of humiliation. i got his two palms connecting my ears in a vice like grip in one furious blow for unknown reasons. i thought he was intent on mincing my brains in recording breaking speed. at 14 i had a teacher slap me real good right across the face until my specs flew, i mean really flew, away, in front of the whole class - for not knowing how to make a public presentation - the topic was "cigarettes". i was hardly a quarter in the school which traditionally had public speaking, without training, in its curriculum. and by default of my birth name being alphabetically superior, i had the misfortune of being given the pleasure to spoil the day for the whole class and end the session prematurely. the only humiliation i missed out on is probably public caning.

in my sub conscience the horrors inflicted on me did retard my progress but i'm lucky to hv pulled thru even if i hv to be a late starter. but my days were the 60s and early 70s. and we had no recourse then.

my stories may sound very like story book stuff. i swear they are true to the dot, every bit of description. and thats why i bent on not allowing history to repeat itself. at least not where my family is concerned. and despite my less than satisfactory financial standing now i still try very hard to provide financial aid to the needy. and be very much involved in the school where my kids go to. no human being deserves to get what i got.

[empress_julz]

i am against using the cane. i don't think i could even use it on my kids. in europe no one uses canes on kids, and most are quite well brought up, (well ignore the big cities like london) and don't have problems with manners.

in school there was no caning. i had an excellent education, my high school especially was fabulous. we really loved our teachers and what they thought us. and we listened because they motivated us to get educated - they didn't beat the smarts out of us.

get her transferred. go to the malay mail in fact, and see what you can do. kick up a ruckus ahtal, your son and other kids deserve better than this crap excuse of a "teacher".

///ej

[Joecool]

I remember in my school days students were demeaned into behaving. They were made either to stand on the chair or worse hold the chair above their head. Once my entire class was punished for being late in shuffling back to the classroom after the assembly. The entire class was asked to stand in the hot sun carrying a chair above their head. Quite funny actually. Instead of feeling the punishment, we were happy we did not have to attend of all things the "Civic" class. After that we were permitted back in the class for the next lesson and we could not concentrate because we were all sweaty. Were we bad boys? Maybe but most of us turned out to be surgeons, doctors, engineers, general managers and one famous one worked for a small electronics company in the US after graduation which later is now called CISCO.