Pit bull killed jogger in SS19

[Hiliary]

I do not know much about Rottweiler, I do not keep pets. All I know is Rottweiler is a dangerous breed and that is a straight fact. There are many irresponsible delusional Rottweiler owners who keep insisting their Rottweiler is harmless. My ex-staff is one of them. I believe the owner of this pitbull who kill Mr Yap also claimed her dog is harmless, had this killing incident didn't happened. I believe the owner of this pitbull that her dog is so harmless that it killed a person. I also believe Rottweilers are so harmless that there are so many cases of Rottweilers attacking people.

I hope MPSJ would start recognizing that some breeds of dogs are dangerous and no matter what (with or without license) should not be allowed to be kept as pet.

You only have assumptions, no facts, not even a straight fact. You say you know nothing but then say they are dangerous? You cannot be bothered to find out? You just slam the breed with absolutely no evidence. The average Rottweiler has more intelligence than you. Support your claim or shut up.

"The American Kennel Club says it is basically a calm, confident and courageous dog with a self-assured aloofness that does not lend itself to immediate and indiscriminate friendships. A Rottweiler is self-confident and responds quietly and with a wait-and-see attitude to influences in its environment. It has an inherent desire to protect home and family, and is an intelligent dog of extreme hardness and adaptability with a strong willingness to work. Rottweiler breeders aim at a dog of abundant strength, black coated with clearly defined rich tan markings, whose powerful appearance does not lack nobility and which is exceptionally well suited to being a companion, service and working dog."

The Rottweiler is not classed as dangerous in Malaysia, but is feared by people who know nothing, who only accept half an argument fuelled by irresponsible media. It is however classed as dangerous in Ireland, Portugal and Poland, but these countries quietly acknowledge irresponsible breeders / interbreeding. As anyone with a modicum of intelligence knows, a sane normal dog has to be trained to attack. Rottweiler’s aggressive tendency is noted as average, far less than the majority of smaller "safe" dogs. In 99% of documented Rottweiler attacks the blame was placed 100% on the owners training or lack of training not on the dog itself. Of course there are dogs that are insane, the same as some humans commit insane acts of violence.

You do not keep pets. I grew up on a farm and have 54 year’s experience with dogs of many breeds. As a teenager i made good money walking the dogs nobody else would walk as they were perceived as viscous. I have never been bitten by a dog. I have met 4 dogs in my life that i would not go within a mile of that should have been destroyed and yes their stupid owners said they were safe. Such owners give dogs a very bad reputation. My sister was bitten by a horse, should all horses be classed as dangerous? A worker had his arm broken by a goose, should birds larger than a sparrow be classed as dangerous and destroyed? Should every human who kills be executed if he knifes or shoots someone, or kills them with his car?
If nature applied your logic, none of us would be here.

[Hiliary]

I met a young lady today who insisted the dog was provoked into attacking the old man. She was convinced that was it, saying the breed of dog would not attack unless provoked. She used to have nine dogs at her house at one time! What do you think? Too much of a hassle to put one in the house, if you ask me. The noise, smell and flying furs put me off.

There is no way Mr Yip provoked the attack. He jogged alone, he was in his happy zone, he was never nosy looking into peoples compounds so no way he even made eye contact with the dog let alone provoked the dog.

Since that dog came to the area a few people commented on the appearance and behaviour of that dog (an English Bull Terrier). The dog did not look "normal" it looked miserable. It did not walk properly. It would just stop walking for no reason and the young lady would pull like crazy to get the dog to walk, but the dog would either not move or would go backwards.

[CS Chua]

I met a young lady today who insisted the dog was provoked into attacking the old man. She was convinced that was it, saying the breed of dog would not attack unless provoked. She used to have nine dogs at her house at one time! What do you think? Too much of a hassle to put one in the house, if you ask me. The noise, smell and flying furs put me off.

Fact #1: She did not witness the attack so how would she know? She is speculating.
Fact #2: She used to have 9 dogs at her house at one time.

It does not take a Sherlock Holmes to deduct that she is biased and defending the dog without facts.

Taken from: http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-sta...ities-2011.php

2011 dog bite fatalities ::

Information gathered by DogsBite.org is verifiable1 through Internet archive services. Our Fatality Citations section documents each source used in our dog bite-related fatality research.

2011 statistics2

31 U.S. fatal dog attacks occurred in 2011. Despite being regulated in Military Housing areas and over 650 U.S. cities, pit bulls led these attacks accounting for 71% (22). Pit bulls make up less than 5% of the total U.S. dog population.3

Notably in 2011, adult victims of fatal pit bull attacks more than doubled the number of child victims. Of the 22 total pit bull victims, 68% (15) fell between the ages of 32 to 76, and 32% (7) were ages 5 years and younger.

The year 2011 also marks an increase in pet pit bulls killing their owners. Of the 8 total instances this year in which a family dog inflicted fatal injury to its primary caretaker, the dog's owner, 88% (7) involved pet pit bulls.

Together, pit bulls (22) and rottweilers (4), the number two lethal dog breed, accounted for 84% of all fatal attacks in 2011. In the 7-year period from 2005 to 2011, this same combination accounted for 74% (157) of the total recorded deaths (213).

The breakdown between pit bulls and rottweilers is substantial over this 7-year period. From 2005 to 2011, pit bulls killed 128 Americans, about one citizen every 20 days, versus rottweilers, which killed 29; about one citizen every 88 days.

Annual data from 2011 shows that 58% (18) of the attacks occurred to adults (21 years and older) and 42% (13) occurred to children (11 years and younger). Of the children, 62% (8) occurred to ages 1 and younger.

[Hiliary]

Gotta love facts.
The same website (dogbite.org) has case studies conducted by MD's and PHD's that show the Labrador more likely to bite than the Doberman, the German Shepherd worst followed by the Chow Chow. No Rottweiler included in the study. No Pit Bull in the study as banned in the study area.
The studies list many factors but cite lack of training and non neutered dogs, in other words the owner is at fault.

So why not put in place a few simple rules that help the genuine dog lover, appease the dog hater and above all protect the dumb animal?
All breeders to be licensed. Wipe out unlicensed breeders, jail them.
Pedigree must be available, inbreeding made against the law.
Breeders only allowed to sell dogs that have basic training, so no younger than 6 months old.
Breeders required to socialise all dogs before they can be sold. Any puppy that shows any aggressive tendencies will be put to sleep.
All dogs to be micro chipped with the owners IC information, this information listed on a police file.
All dogs to be neutered before being sold. (long term benefit less or no strays).
Prospective first time owners be required to prove they have some knowledge of the breed they wish to purchase, at least know how large it will grow, how much it will eat, its genetic instincts etc.

Go further.
Prospective owners require police permission to purchase a dog, so they should be interviewed by the police, and anyone who has been burgled cannot purchase a dog for at least 6 months. The idea of getting a dog after a burglary is not a good reason to purchase a dog as a pet.
All dog owners sign some form of legal document that states they understand they will be held legally responsible for the dog.

My dog came from a breeder who trains Rottweilers as guard or attack dogs, many of his customers are wealthy titled Malay's. He says it can take up to 2 years to train the dog properly as a guard or attack dog. If he had not said this i would have stayed with Labradors (as i had not read the study that said Labradors are more likely to bite than Dobermans, which i find very hard to accept having owned 4 Labs).

All guard dogs to be trained, licensed etc. and must be at least 2 years old before they can be sold.
No private individual allowed to own a guard dog. Why would anyone want to own an aggressive dog??

[jan tomaswaki]

I think many owners bought the dog just to jaga the house and personally went to class to attend the course on dog grooming.My friend 3 dogs in Pajam sent for training every weekend for RM80 per dog.per sessions.Do you think Sj resident afford to do it?

[CS Chua]

I think many owners bought the dog just to jaga the house and personally went to class to attend the course on dog grooming.My friend 3 dogs in Pajam sent for training every weekend for RM80 per dog.per sessions.Do you think Sj resident afford to do it?

I am a dog lover and always had a dog until I moved to KL. I am planning to get one later since my new job requires less traveling overseas. In thinking about getting a dog, I will probably get a small or medium size dog that is not overly active. I am avoiding dogs with known aggressive instinct since my grandchildren will visit me from time to time.

My feelings are that not all dogs need to be sent for training unless you want it. It is definitely useful. I do not mind having my dog potty-trained for example or trained to listen to certain commands like staying still. However I am of the opinion that all dogs outside the house should be on leased at all times - regardless of the size or species. For big dogs and certain breeds, they should be muzzled as well. My late brother in law had a boxer mixed breed. It was huge and strong. When we took him for a walk with a lease, well, it is the other way round - we went where he wanted to go because he was so strong he pulled us involuntary along. He took us for a walk literally.There was no stopping him. As the said attack has shown, some dogs bite and would not let go so muzzling them as mandatory when they are outside is good. It does not cause any harm to the owners or dogs and the public especially those with children will feel safer. So, it is a matter of give and take.

Do not ban dogs or any types of dogs. It is good regulations that we need.

[FineTuned]

So why not put in place a few simple rules that help the genuine dog lover, appease the dog hater and above all protect the dumb animal?
All breeders to be licensed. Wipe out unlicensed breeders, jail them.
Pedigree must be available, inbreeding made against the law.
Breeders only allowed to sell dogs that have basic training, so no younger than 6 months old.
Breeders required to socialise all dogs before they can be sold. Any puppy that shows any aggressive tendencies will be put to sleep.
All dogs to be micro chipped with the owners IC information, this information listed on a police file.
All dogs to be neutered before being sold. (long term benefit less or no strays).
Prospective first time owners be required to prove they have some knowledge of the breed they wish to purchase, at least know how large it will grow, how much it will eat, its genetic instincts etc.

Go further.
Prospective owners require police permission to purchase a dog, so they should be interviewed by the police, and anyone who has been burgled cannot purchase a dog for at least 6 months. The idea of getting a dog after a burglary is not a good reason to purchase a dog as a pet.
All dog owners sign some form of legal document that states they understand they will be held legally responsible for the dog.

All guard dogs to be trained, licensed etc. and must be at least 2 years old before they can be sold.
No private individual allowed to own a guard dog. Why would anyone want to own an aggressive dog??

Sounds sensible to me (at least, in theory).

BTW where do all those ubiquitous lovable pariah dogs fit in this scheme? Any place for them in the sun?

[Hiliary]

Sounds sensible to me (at least, in theory).

BTW where do all those ubiquitous lovable pariah dogs fit in this scheme? Any place for them in the sun?

They have a place. If you can get one young enough to train. You get a friendly dog with few health problems. Some say you can train any dog at any age, but i am not ready to risk that.
If no homes are available, there are a few people around here that will take them in and take care of them until re-homed, some of these people are so dedicated to helping it is beyond rational thought.
I think all strays should also be neutered, as far as i am concerned only a registered breeder should have dogs that can reproduce.

[Hiliary]

I am a dog lover and always had a dog until I moved to KL. I am planning to get one later since my new job requires less traveling overseas. In thinking about getting a dog, I will probably get a small or medium size dog that is not overly active. I am avoiding dogs with known aggressive instinct since my grandchildren will visit me from time to time.

My feelings are that not all dogs need to be sent for training unless you want it. It is definitely useful. I do not mind having my dog potty-trained for example or trained to listen to certain commands like staying still. However I am of the opinion that all dogs outside the house should be on leased at all times - regardless of the size or species. For big dogs and certain breeds, they should be muzzled as well. My late brother in law had a boxer mixed breed. It was huge and strong. When we took him for a walk with a lease, well, it is the other way round - we went where he wanted to go because he was so strong he pulled us involuntary along. He took us for a walk literally.There was no stopping him. As the said attack has shown, some dogs bite and would not let go so muzzling them as mandatory when they are outside is good. It does not cause any harm to the owners or dogs and the public especially those with children will feel safer. So, it is a matter of give and take.

Do not ban dogs or any types of dogs. It is good regulations that we need.

I agree with most of your points except those about small dogs and stopping the Boxer. If you knew my dog you would change your mind about getting a small dog!
Many of my dogs including the current Rottweiler grew up around small children, they all loved to play, but if the children fell down the Rottweiler thought it was his fault and stopped playing.
When my eldest was born in the dog loving UK, i could not believe how many people said i should get rid of my dogs, but most were amazed at how the dogs would place themselves between my children and any stranger, or me if i raised my voice. A good dog is one thing, but i would put to sleep (in a heartbeat) any dog i could not trust as there is no point passing a bad dog onto someone else. My dog, when he has had enough of noisy kids pulling his ears etc will give one deep bark, it means he has had enough, time to stop. The only reason i am worried about my Rottweiler is that the young children that know him will think they can play with any Rottweiler, i openly admit that scares me.

To me, most small dogs need more exercise than large dogs, most small dogs are more snappy than large dogs. My mother had a huge German Shepherd when i was still pre school, a wonderful dog that never hurt a fly, she also had a Corgi that should have been shot, years later a (insane) Poodle that took me 2 years to convince her to have put down, i could go on but you get my drift about small dogs.
I had Collies and Labs for most of my life, a Rottweiler was the last dog on my list for many (i now know wrong) reasons and i have been proven wrong, the so called devil dog, when raised the right way is truly man's best friend, i would never suggest anything to anyone that could possibly cause harm.

When you are ready to get a dog, there is a lady in PJ that you should visit, she is the Dog Whisperer of Malaysia.

[FineTuned]

I think all strays should also be neutered, as far as i am concerned only a registered breeder should have dogs that can reproduce.

In the interest of practicality, I too agree that strays have to be neutered. But still to my mind, they are being punished through no fault of their own.....after all, it is us humans who cause them to exist in that unnatural situation.
Do you think registered breeders will handle pariah dogs without bias (since they're without pedigree, and have no big bucks commercial value)?

[CS Chua]

I agree with most of your points except those about small dogs and stopping the Boxer. If you knew my dog you would change your mind about getting a small dog!
Many of my dogs including the current Rottweiler grew up around small children, they all loved to play, but if the children fell down the Rottweiler thought it was his fault and stopped playing.
When my eldest was born in the dog loving UK, i could not believe how many people said i should get rid of my dogs, but most were amazed at how the dogs would place themselves between my children and any stranger, or me if i raised my voice. A good dog is one thing, but i would put to sleep (in a heartbeat) any dog i could not trust as there is no point passing a bad dog onto someone else. My dog, when he has had enough of noisy kids pulling his ears etc will give one deep bark, it means he has had enough, time to stop. The only reason i am worried about my Rottweiler is that the young children that know him will think they can play with any Rottweiler, i openly admit that scares me.

To me, most small dogs need more exercise than large dogs, most small dogs are more snappy than large dogs. My mother had a huge German Shepherd when i was still pre school, a wonderful dog that never hurt a fly, she also had a Corgi that should have been shot, years later a (insane) Poodle that took me 2 years to convince her to have put down, i could go on but you get my drift about small dogs.
I had Collies and Labs for most of my life, a Rottweiler was the last dog on my list for many (i now know wrong) reasons and i have been proven wrong, the so called devil dog, when raised the right way is truly man's best friend, i would never suggest anything to anyone that could possibly cause harm.

When you are ready to get a dog, there is a lady in PJ that you should visit, she is the Dog Whisperer of Malaysia.

I am afraid life is not so easy as that. The grandchildren do not belong to me. There are other stakeholders in this too and I would like them to come to my house freely. When I was young I yearned to have a German Shepherd but my poor parents cannot afford one for me. Who knows? I might get one for my old age when nobody wants me then. It will be me and my dog.

[Hiliary]

In the interest of practicality, I too agree that strays have to be neutered. But still to my mind, they are being punished through no fault of their own.....after all, it is us humans who cause them to exist in that unnatural situation.
Do you think registered breeders will handle pariah dogs without bias (since they're without pedigree, and have no big bucks commercial value)?

If all pets were neutered by breeders before sale then the stray population will decline over time.
If all pets were micro chipped with the owners information, the number of abandoned animals will decline over time.
Of course the term pets applies to cats etc as well.

Perhaps breeders should be required to take care of strays to say 10% of their pedigree population?
Maybe the local council could give financial aid to the few people that already take care of strays?
Check out http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/FurrenzPets
The lady who runs Furrenz must be near the top of the "Good People" list!

The preference for pedigree has to make you wonder if the prospective buyer is really a dog lover?
I have had more pedigree dogs than non simply because i want an idea of what the dog will grow into, but the dogs i got from rescue centers also grew into great pets, lived far longer and had very few health issues compared to pedigree dogs (at a fraction of the purchase price!!).

[FineTuned]

Perhaps breeders should be required to take care of strays to say 10% of their pedigree population?
Maybe the local council could give financial aid to the few people that already take care of strays?

I do not equate pariah dogs with strays, although most of the strays we see are pariahs.

If I am not wrong, the canine population in Malaysia is still largely pariahs (my meaning: dogs without pedigree). Professional breeders are not likely to want to deal in them, and you can't force them to. So where do these `under'dogs stand? They could be headed to be exterminated if only registered breeders should be allowed to breed dogs. Commercialization of all canines could be a possible solution for us humans....but not good news for many of them doggies.

the dogs i got from rescue centers also grew into great pets, lived far longer and had very few health issues compared to pedigree dogs

I'm not surprised, over-selective breeding to create pure breeds, crossbreeds and pedigreed variants means they become naturally weaker overall! In nature, diversity is strength, specialization is a dead end.

CS Chua, the idea of having a dog as companion as you grow old alone sounds wonderful (yes I would love it too), but it's really you who has to look after your dog, not the other way round. Do you think you will still be able to manage it when your joints are all stiff and creaky?

[CS Chua]

CS Chua, the idea of having a dog as companion as you grow old alone sounds wonderful (yes I would love it too), but it's really you who has to look after your dog, not the other way round. Do you think you will still be able to manage it when your joints are all stiff and creaky?

Can lah. Don't get bull mastiff type. Get a small and lazy one like a Bulldog. He/she will sleep next to me in the lazy morning sun.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulldog

Despite their fat "puss" expression, Bulldogs are generally docile and tractable.[citation needed] However, they can move very quickly over short distances. Bulldogs do not need a lot of physical exercise, so they are well-suited for living in apartments and other urban environments.[citation needed] They are friendly and gregarious, but occasionally willful. The phrase "stubborn as a Bulldog" may derive from observing an agitated Bulldog. They rank 78 out of 80 in Stanley Coren's The Intelligence of Dogs, holding the lowest degree of working/obedience intelligence.

According to the American Kennel Club (AKC) a Bulldog's "disposition should be equable and kind, resolute and courageous (not vicious or aggressive), and demeanor should be pacific and dignified. These attributes should be countenanced by the expression and behavior."[4]

Breeders have worked to reduce/remove aggression from these dogs[citation needed], and as such, the Bulldog is known to be of good temperament[citation needed]most have a friendly, patient nature.[citation needed] Generally, Bulldogs are known for getting along well with children, other dogs, and pets.[citation needed] They can be so attached to home and family that they will not venture out of the yard without a human companion and are more likely to sleep on someone's lap than chase a ball around the yard.

[FineTuned]

Get a small and lazy one like a Bulldog. He/she will sleep next to me in the lazy morning sun........and are more likely to sleep on someone's lap than chase a ball around the yard.

Sounds like my kind of dog. It's siesta all the time.

I just realised I've gone off thread in my recent posts....my apologies.