What Is going on, will ISA be used?

[xaviers]

what us going on man?

[firefox]

soon malaysia will become another country run by talibans

[denver]

What Is going on, will ISA be used?

No. That is just one lecturer's views. Many people has many views on this matter, luckily he is not someone in a position of power to change the law.

[Sugarfree]

soon malaysia will become another country run by talibans

..if not already

[Sugarfree]

..luckily he is not someone in a position of power to change the law.

yeah, today. but tomorrow?

[Vixey]

Ouote from the article:

"The Quranic verse ‘There is no compulsion in religion’ does not mean that a Muslim can leave Islam as he wishes, it means that non-Muslims cannot be forced to enter Islam."

Then why in Malaysia non-Muslims are forced to when they fall in love and want to marry Muslims?

[denver]

Ouote from the article:

"The Quranic verse ‘There is no compulsion in religion’ does not mean that a Muslim can leave Islam as he wishes, it means that non-Muslims cannot be forced to enter Islam."

Then why in Malaysia non-Muslims are forced to when they fall in love and want to marry Muslims?

Because it is also, if not more for the Muslim bride/groom. If a Muslim marries a non-muslim who does not convert to Islam, then their marriage is not recognized by Islam, which means everyday the Muslim bride/groom would be committing adultery and sin, which means their children will be bastards, which means their children is not eligible for inheritance (unless specified by will), and ultimately, it will mean that the Muslim bride/groom is condemned to hell in the after life. That's why this issue is a big deal to Muslims. No Muslim parents would want to put their children in this position.

[Vixey]

Because it is also, if not more for the Muslim bride/groom. If a Muslim marries a non-muslim who does not convert to Islam, then their marriage is not recognized by Islam, which means everyday the Muslim bride/groom would be committing adultery and sin, which means their children will be bastards, which means their children is not eligible for inheritance (unless specified by will), and ultimately, it will mean that the Muslim bride/groom is condemned to hell in the after life. That's why this issue is a big deal to Muslims. No Muslim parents would want to put their children in this position.

But so far, from what I understand, this is a ruling only in Malaysia. My cousins have married Indonesian Muslims and no conversion was necessary there. And its beautiful to see such harmonious Catholic & Muslim families living in peace. Some converted to Islam by their own free will. But they were not forced to when they decided to marry.

So how? Why different interpretation in Indonesia?

[denver]

But so far, from what I understand, this is a ruling only in Malaysia. My cousins have married Indonesian Muslims and no conversion was necessary there. And its beautiful to see such harmonious Catholic & Muslim families living in peace. Some converted to Islam by their own free will. But they were not forced to when they decided to marry.

So how? Why different interpretation in Indonesia?

Oh not just in Malaysia. Other Islamic countries, especially in the middle east is the same as Malaysia. Indonesia I'm not so certain, in fact, I'm surprised that it is allowed there.

The only reason that I can think of is that Islam has several "branches" or "teachings". Just like Christian has its Catholics and Protestants. Sunni Islam is the largest majority, then we have the Shia Islam, then I think they may be others. Even within these big branches there are smaller branches as well. Malaysia follows the Sunni Islam, which is the majority of Islam in the world. I'm really not an expert in the different deviations of Islamic teachings. Perhaps some other forumer can fill in on this. All I know is that under the Islamic teachings practiced by malaysian muslim, it is a sin for a muslim to marry a non-convert, and that leads to all the repercussions I highlighted earlier.

[AllUrban]

Because it is also, if not more for the Muslim bride/groom. If a Muslim marries a non-muslim who does not convert to Islam, then their marriage is not recognized by Islam, which means everyday the Muslim bride/groom would be committing adultery and sin, which means their children will be bastards, which means their children is not eligible for inheritance (unless specified by will), and ultimately, it will mean that the Muslim bride/groom is condemned to hell in the after life. That's why this issue is a big deal to Muslims. No Muslim parents would want to put their children in this position.

nope...Islam doesnt apply that way. Many muslims, especially in the early days of Islam, were specifically instructed NOT to divorce their spouses (who were not muslim) or attempt to forcibly convert their children to Islam.

According to Islam, Muslims are required/expected to marry people from the "Ahli Kitab" (People's of the Book) which are the followers of monotheistic (one God) religions. This includes Muslims, Christians, and Jews. Marriage to people who are polytheistic (many gods e.g. Hindu, Taoist) or others (e.g. Shinto, Buddhist) would not be allowed.

It is said specifically is that it would be better for a muslim to marry a muslim over a Christian or Jew, but it is not said that it is a sin.

If muslims choose to add to the original teachings (and make things even more restrictive) they should realize that they are committing Bid'a (human innovations on God's words) which is not acceptable in Islam.

I think that the conversion in/out is mostly a numbers game...the Malaysian gov't and the religious peoples feel better saying that there are 1 billion muslims in the world...even if 1/2 of them arent practicing.

Cheers, m

[denver]

nope...Islam doesnt apply that way. Many muslims, especially in the early days of Islam, were specifically instructed NOT to divorce their spouses (who were not muslim) or attempt to forcibly convert their children to Islam.

According to Islam, Muslims are required/expected to marry people from the "Ahli Kitab" (People's of the Book) which are the followers of monotheistic (one God) religions. This includes Muslims, Christians, and Jews. Marriage to people who are polytheistic (many gods e.g. Hindu, Taoist) or others (e.g. Shinto, Buddhist) would not be allowed.

It is said specifically is that it would be better for a muslim to marry a muslim over a Christian or Jew, but it is not said that it is a sin.

If muslims choose to add to the original teachings (and make things even more restrictive) they should realize that they are committing Bid'a (human innovations on God's words) which is not acceptable in Islam.

I think that the conversion in/out is mostly a numbers game...the Malaysian gov't and the religious peoples feel better saying that there are 1 billion muslims in the world...even if 1/2 of them arent practicing.

Cheers, m

Bottom line is this: in Malaysia, it is NOT allowed, it is considered haram. This is in accordance to the ruling of ulama-ulama in Malaysia. This is the same for many other Islamic countries, especially in the Middle East.

The marriage of between muslim and "ahli kitab" is allowed, but these ahli kitab must practice the original form of religion e.g. the OLD Testament, and they must be of original descendents, e.g. nasrani. I think Indonesia is one of the very few Islamic countries that follows a variation to this teachings.

[Vixey]

Thank you All Urban for the clarification. I vaguely remember reading something similar on an international Islamic forum but got confused with the way its practiced here.

Your explanation makes perfect sense and in line with the basic understanding I have of Islam.

[Vixey]

Bottom line is this: in Malaysia, it is NOT allowed, it is considered haram. This is in accordance to the ruling of ulama-ulama in Malaysia. This is the same for many other Islamic countries, especially in the Middle East.

The marriage of between muslim and "ahli kitab" is allowed, but these ahli kitab must practice the original form of religion e.g. the OLD Testament, and they must be of original descendents, e.g. nasrani. I think Indonesia is one of the very few Islamic countries that follows a variation to this teachings.

So if the marriage between a Muslim and "ahli kitab" is allowed, by the Quran, if they practice accordingly, then how come the ulamas' have the power to decide that this is not allowed in Malaysia?

[joker2107]

not strange that only the verse on there being no compulsion (S.2:256) is challenged. but why no mention of "guidance has been distinguished from misguidance..."? and the convenience of ignoring s18:29 - let him who pleases believe, and let him who pleases disbelieve?

is there a declaration now that many of our forebears are languishing in eternal damnation in the pit fires of hell because they did not subscribe to the same philosophy espoused by our contemporary demi-gods?

who would be a greater authority - some simple lecturers or someone with a llm in comparative law and a phd in islamic law and is a professor of islamic law and jurispendence and dean of the international institute of islamic thought and civilazation (i refer to prof dr mh kamali)?

from the lectures of prof kamali, i gather that islam is a religion of bountiful mercy, not that god will forgive intentional deviance, but the almighty will judge each and every soul on his own merit and not on the merit of what his fellowmen decrees for him. no doubt about it, this religion is a very beautiful one which promotes peace among all humankind. all ugliness is man made - such dirt has no roots in the sanctity of the tenets of the religion.

[xaviers]

Thanks for the clarification...learn something new everyday


What does our Pak Lah's Islam Hadhari say on all this or it's not mention at all?

Maybe that is the main objective of the Inter-Faith Commission... understanding. ..anyway it been shelved