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View Full Version : Lim Keng Yaik Vs. Kerk Choo Ting



Bigjoe
24-08-2005, 08:55 AM
After talking to some people, this is the gist of what I got. The susipicion here is that Lim Keng Yaik is trying to pave the way when he does not have to retire in 2008. Apparently Koh Tsu Koon and Kerk are good friends and he has been told by Lim Keng Yaik to go for deputy post with his support or he could even lose his CM post in Penang.

Lim Keng Yaik is going around telling people that he is trying to make orderly succession plan but Koh Tsu Koon will not be given the chance to create a strong enough base other than his Penang base so that means come 2008, someone is going to step up and call for LKY to stay. Its a-la Samy Vellu and MIC.

'Crazy Doctor' as he was once popularly called is actually more Machiavellian than people think. Apparently his recent call not to talk about the 'social contract' was a calculated move to demonstrate that he is more articulate than Kerk and more qualified to lead Gerakan nationally than anyone else.

The funny thing is that many people in Gerakan tells me that LKY is not as smart as Kerk. It seems Kerk is the one who has held the grassroot together for LKY for a long time now. Apparently he was promised the Presidency by now for that support but now not only is that promised not fufilled, it seems he is being pushed out.

Ski
24-08-2005, 10:41 AM
Its shame how they are bashing each other like children very unethical..washing dirty linen in public and bad for Party image too.

cskok8
24-08-2005, 11:03 AM
LKY says that if the other fella is elected he will stay 9 years. What nonsense. He gets to stay 9 years only if the delegates re-elect him after 3 & 6 years. However 9 year will be his MAXIMUM term, unlike the present veteran.

JackRyan1975
24-08-2005, 11:46 AM
Actually being long in a position is not a problem if the leader has been contributing. We should not ask a long-serving leader to step down solely on the basis that he's been heating the seat for too long. I also do not look too highly upon a deputy who don't contribute anything (or at least perceived that way) but merely waiting for a smooth and safe transition to the no. 1 position.

uchangeng
24-08-2005, 12:08 PM
Tan Sri Koh Tsu Koon has basically not enough power base outside of Penang. In Penang, Koh's father, Koh Peng Teng, has a large followers of in Gerakan. The man has a big face there so to speak. Outside of the island, in Ipoh for instant, very little grassroot support as I know of.

However, giving Tsu Koon the party presidency can be a good move. He can use the position to boost his competitiveness with other UMNO politikus in the Penang Assembly. We know the UMNO politikus there have been eying the CM post for a long time. Where else if not in Panang that we get a non-UMNO crony CM., even Sabahan have to wait their turn.

Besides, we all know that Tsu Koon and our PM are good frens, very good frens, even Endon talked abiout Tsu Koon's valuable frenship with Pak Lah in their dark days when Pak Lah was outside the cabinet.

Therefore, if Gerakan internal fight turns out to be bad for Tsu Koon, it is no good for the Penang folks as a whole. For the larger picture, LKY should just go, go in grace. What is there to fight for? Longest serving party boss.

penangkia
24-08-2005, 12:21 PM
All the old top guns of all major political parties in bolehland are the same. These historical pieces always use the succession story to hang on to power. It is really annoying to always hear these old folks talking about grooming the no. 2 to take over. But when the no.2 is ready to take over, the old hag still wants to hang on, that's when all the hogwash reasoning start to emerge ( Not that I am a fan of any no.2)
Why can't these "has beens" just retire, if that's really what they wanted. Let the party members through their delegates choose their leaders in a true democratic process. Debate by all means...but intelligently and on relevent topics. Don't treat party members and delegates like a bunch of idiots with no gray matter of their own.
If one cannot accept challenge and contest, don't be a politician.
I hope delegates of gerakan have bolas of their own to vote for the person/s they want as their leader and not because some kiasu said you must support this fellow and not that fellow. :o

bugbear
24-08-2005, 01:26 PM
LKY should just GO in peace and not make such a fuss about being challenged by his deputy. I mean the Kerk fellow has been his sidekick for the past 16 years. Talk about long suffering could not even reconcile to this piece of fact. Please go before your credibility falls off like your sagging face.

Mason
24-08-2005, 01:59 PM
Besides, we all know that Tsu Koon and our PM are good frens, very good frens, even Endon talked abiout Tsu Koon's valuable frenship with Pak Lah in their dark days when Pak Lah was outside the cabinet.

Better choose someone who is close to Najib rather than Pak Lah if want to maintain the CM post....I feel that will help in the long run, if not when Najib takes over CM post will definately be questioned!??

silver_bird
24-08-2005, 04:28 PM
Without Fear or Favour, Twenty-Five (25) years as President of any Political Party is NONSENSE !!!

JackRyan1975
24-08-2005, 04:40 PM
Without Fear or Favour, Twenty-Five (25) years as President of any Political Party is NONSENSE !!!

Kerk has thrown in his lot, so lets see if the members think its nonsense or not. After all, this is a more democratic party which does not require a minimum number of nominations from DIVISIONS before being allowed to contest the Pres and Dep Pres positions.

silver_bird
24-08-2005, 06:00 PM
Whatever the outcome on 27/8, Kerk's suggestion to amend the Constitution to a Three-term (maximum of nine-years) for Presidency is justified, fair & democratic. Frankly, what has MCA, Gerakan & MIC etc done to upgrade Socio-economic, Education & getting Govt Contract for Non-Bumis ? How, what & where is the Power-Sharing formula ?

bobkee
24-08-2005, 06:06 PM
Frankly, what has MCA, Gerakan & MIC etc done to upgrade Socio-economic, Education & getting Govt Contract for Non-Bumis ?
I didn't even know Gerakan is supposed to be a non bumi party :P

How, what & where is the Power-Sharing formula ?It happens when ppl like Semi Value retain their cabinet seat even though they prove incompetent time after time. What to do? Cannot sack him mah. It's part of the "power sharing" deal to have the president of the MIC in a full ministerial position.

Bigjoe
25-08-2005, 08:18 AM
What goats me is that this election is turning out to be a fight about what is fair or good for the party rather than issues faced by the community that Gerakan represents.

To me the biggest issue with Gerakan is what it will do to go back to its original goal of multi-racial party. To that end, it must merge with the MCA and negotiate for a non-racial politics. There is no chance that this will happend under LKY but possible under Kerk. At least the cooperation between Gerakan and MCA will be better under Kerk keeping the hope alive.

Under LKY, it will be more of the same and if the batton is eventually passed to Koh Tsu Koon much much later, then nothing will change for sure.

SunwayKid
25-08-2005, 06:54 PM
Without Fear or Favour, Twenty-Five (25) years as President of any Political Party is NONSENSE !!!

Eh....I thought Samy Vellu hold the crown to that. :D

If I am not mistaken, Gerakan is a splinter party from MCA, i.e. spilt when two person can't see eye to eye. Just like Umno and S46, MIC and PPP, the Sabah Kadazan parties etc. At one stage, they were even talking of merging back with MCA but where would that leave the non-Chinese ? LKY will talk and talk and talk, KCT will listen, and listen and listen. Looks like it is going to be another one bites the dust.

bobkee
25-08-2005, 07:12 PM
Eh....I thought Samy Vellu hold the crown to that. :D

If I am not mistaken, Gerakan is a splinter party from MCA, i.e. spilt when two person can't see eye to eye. Just like Umno and S46, MIC and PPP, the Sabah Kadazan parties etc. At one stage, they were even talking of merging back with MCA but where would that leave the non-Chinese ? LKY will talk and talk and talk, KCT will listen, and listen and listen. Looks like it is going to be another one bites the dust.
Actually Gerakan was started by the more moderate, Fabian orientated members of the Labour Party after the party was dissolved. Among the initial leaders of the party were former Labour Party & Socialist Front personages like Dr. Syed Hussain Alattas, Dr. Tan Chee Khoon, V.David and V. Veerapan.

Many of these individuals left the party when it joined Barisan Nasional in 1971 and only Dr Lim Chong Eu (who was formerlly from the MCA) and some 15 divisions were left holding on to the shell that was Parti Gerakan Rakyat Malaysia.

It was only during the 70's when there was the MCA crisis (major players being Lee San Choon, Paul Leong, Lim Keng Yaik, Neo Yee Pan, Alex Lee etc), that there was an exodus of MCA dissidents to Gerakan. That also was the beginning of how Gerakan started to look like an MCA photocopy and the inter party rivalry began.

So it is not true to say that Gerakan is a splinter party of the MCA. It can be seen as a successor party to the Labour Party of Malaya with it's opposition leaning legacy preserved initially through Parti Keadilan Masyarakat (Pekemas) led by Dr. Tan Chee Khoon and then possibly through the absorbtion of it's other activists; through DAP, PRM and Workers' Party of Malaysia.

Bigjoe
25-08-2005, 08:23 PM
Thanks Bobkee for clarifying the history. I had forgotten some of it myself. Gerakan was intended to be a multi-racial party but the dream of multiraciality is that of Chinese ones primarily by default so that is how Gerakan looks Chinese.

The Chinese should lead in multiraciality and hence I am for the merger of Gerakan and MCA and then with any other party including MIC or the Sabah parties. It would scare UMNO to the core if the rest of its BN component parties unite against it.

Pak Kadok
25-08-2005, 09:02 PM
Whatever Gerakan is and whoever leads Gerakan or whatever Gerakan claims to be championing, do you all really think it would make any difference?!

aroki
26-08-2005, 12:17 PM
The Chinese should lead in multiraciality and hence I am for the merger of Gerakan and MCA and then with any other party including MIC or the Sabah parties. It would scare UMNO to the core if the rest of its BN component parties unite against it.
good idea but will any of the president give up their post?? They all think they are indispensable. yes they do. if a guy can't do what he wants in 9 years,what good is he? Remember we, well at least some of us thought that we are in deep trouble when Dr.M was retiring and Pak Lah taking over. Look at it now, I for one wished Pak Lah should have taken over earlier, what a breath of freash air. Bottom line no point having a leader for too long(more than 10 years).We need new ideas for continuous improvements. let the party have new leaders. So if the party pick a wrong guy, so what. Next election kick him out and choose someone else. Not end of the world.

Our warlords/part president don't like to encourage contest with scary scenario..what if.... In actual fact an election is good for the system.Some housing cleaning is needed for all of them.

KTK my god, what a whimp! Run over in penang and will be run over in KL/Putrajaya. Maybe LKY wants to hand pick him and than KTK can hand pick or push LKY's son up the ladder. Seriously what does LKY see in KTK that we can't see??? :rolleyes:

bobkee
26-08-2005, 01:44 PM
.. The Chinese should lead in multiraciality and hence I am for the merger of Gerakan and MCA and then with any other party including MIC or the Sabah parties.If it really is about non racial politics (rather than multi racial politics), does it matter who leads it as long as the group is Malaysian?

Ethnicity and culture is not something we should discard in the pursuit of a national identity but it is also not something we should bring along in building a national polity. 50 years of this nonsense should have drummed some sense into the rest of us.

aroki
27-08-2005, 08:51 PM
LKY wins but hopefully he gets the message. looks like KCT has done his job. LKY time to fix a time to go. I also like that his son will be the next candidate for Batu. so is LKY planting the seeds for his son...dynasty?

Here is the results (http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2005/8/27/nation/20050827203330&sec=nation)

jasonbhlee
27-08-2005, 08:59 PM
whoever takes over, Gerakan will be whitewashed in Penang coming general election. UMNO will take over the CM post unless opposition can win big! Shd give DAP a chance to run Penang.

Pak Kadok
27-08-2005, 09:48 PM
whoever takes over, Gerakan will be whitewashed in Penang coming general election.[

How can ever the DAP rule Pg?!

With gerrymandering, even if the DAP wins all the Chinese majority seats, they will only have a 1 seat majority and even if this impossible scenario happens, don't you think the same situation Pairin faced won't happen again?

And with Penangites having shown they are so hard-up of having a Chinese Chief Minister (from Gerakan) by hook or by crook, the DAP will,most probably, again be able to win 1 seat, the most, either in Sg Puyu or Batu Lancang (& that also by a slim majority).

bobkee
27-08-2005, 09:51 PM
If they could convince the PKR people to work together, they might be able to form a coalition government. Food for thought?

Pak Kadok
27-08-2005, 09:56 PM
The Malays in Penang will never vote for the DAP.

Without the Malay vote, DAP can never win.

Even if DAP were to do the impossible and win & maybe form a coalition (with whoever), this will never last as not before long, a few of their ADUNs will hop over to the BN.

Even the famous ( & trusted) Tiger Lee from Seremban jumped ship to the MCA.

jasonbhlee
27-08-2005, 10:23 PM
pak kadok...u have underestimated the malay mind. But come to think of it....maybe u are right...we need the NEP after all. Things doesn't change does it. But now LKY is back fighting for a couple more years.....
As for party hopping......hmmm...$$$$$..

Joe Gomez
28-08-2005, 12:30 AM
The results (http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2005/8/27/nation/20050827203330&sec=nation) are out.

aroki
28-08-2005, 01:57 AM
whoever takes over, Gerakan will be whitewashed in Penang coming general election. UMNO will take over the CM post unless opposition can win big! Shd give DAP a chance to run Penang.if UMNO does this, than they will loose PG next election. The PG ppl will not have it that way.How many seats does Gerakan and MCA put together..now u know what I mean. I hope UMNO will do it, appoint the CM as after all is KTK the CM..NO!! the deputy CM is the actual person calling the shots...so make it officiallah. ;)

Bigjoe
28-08-2005, 07:20 AM
The very least I think, this campaign made sure Lim Keng Yaik will have to retire in 2 years. I think he will move the goalpost still but at least not that far. He may do the other original LKY(down south) and maybe make a Senior or Mentor position for himself to pull the strings but that is not going to fly either. After all Kerk is not going to go away...

Bigjoe
28-08-2005, 07:31 AM
[....the deputy CM is the actual person calling the shots...so make it officiallah. ;)[/QUOTE]

How true is this? I don't think this is true. The truth is DAP is second in line to take over Penang not UMNO, not MCA either.

Joe Gomez
28-08-2005, 12:52 PM
Now that the slugging matches are over and saliva has been spewed liberally, I want to share my humble thots :
It bothers me immensely that a party leader like Lim Keng Yaik, cant go ..... just go ...... without annointing his standard bearers the heir apparents.
Does he have such a low opinion about the ability of the party cadres to make a level-headed choice / decision ?
If he believes that the delegates will listen to his call to support his chosen "heir", is it wrong to suspect that he had used this lemming ( u know unquestioningly following the leaders prompts ) syndrome / mentatlity among the delgates to stay at the party helm year upon year ?

Does it not speak poorly of the observing public ? Allowing this idiocy to continue .....

Hold on a moment am I talking of Gerakan ? or UMNO ? or MIC ? or MCA ?
There are annointed sons in every god-damned party in this country of ours.
I thot LKY had the guts ............ well he is no better than Samy / Ling Leong Sik.

Pak Kadok
28-08-2005, 01:06 PM
Ever since the last time the DAP won 13 DUN seats in Pg, it has been an uphill task for the DAP to win even a seat.

Even in 90% plus Chinese majority areas like Padang Kota, DAP can't win.

The reason being the Chinese in Penang are afraid that they will be "punished" by the BN and being denied "development."

Also, the Chinese there are afraid that there will forever never be a Chinese Chief Minister again in Pg if DAP is "given a chance" or that if DAP wins more seats than the Gerakan/MCA candidates combined.

I certainly would prefer if more of Karpal Singh & Co are elected to the DUN there.

But if the majority of Penangites would like more of the same from the status quo, then, it will be their own lookout.

Joe Gomez
28-08-2005, 01:29 PM
..........The reason being the Chinese in Penang are afraid that they will be "punished" by the BN and being denied "development." .................Therein lies the malady ....
The BN gormen has actively encouraged that fear and has "punished" constituencies in the past. So what does the Malaysian public do .... tucks its tail in and runs whimpering into the corner. BN thus continues to shove the the Koh Tsu Koons and the Lee Hwa Bengs into our faces.
The voters deserve everything that they are getting.
I never tire saying this.
Lee Lam Thye was in Bukit Bintang and BB did not fall bcak on development during his tenure ..... of course LLT's subsequent volte face was a lesson in comic calisthenics but BB did not suffer right ? BN did not dare let BB suffer right ?

Bigjoe
28-08-2005, 01:30 PM
So long as population is majority non-bumi, Penang has to have a non-bumi CM. If UMNO force the bumi CM issue, DAP still can take the state.

Joe Gomez
28-08-2005, 07:43 PM
So long as population is majority non-bumi, Penang has to have a non-bumi CM. If UMNO force the bumi CM issue, DAP still can take the state.If I let this opinion go unchallenged ( oni opinion lor Bigjoe ) it will belie my stand that Malaysia should have a non-Bumi PM .... why the f*** not ? Saying that the PM has to be Bumi oni is rather parochial. With due apologies, Bigjoe, this small joe thinks your opinion is as well.
Lets not get caught in this whirlpool of the arrogance of the majority ....... not at the state level ( Penang, Sanah or Sarawak ) & not at the country level either ..... we are doomed, as a nation, if we do.

uchangeng
28-08-2005, 07:58 PM
UMNO has been working silently in the background over the year to delineate constituencies in the Malay majority mainland Penang, the Seberang area. Break up the larger ones into many smaller ones. And each time that happens, more seats go to UMNO., one or two would go to MIC and Gerakan and even MCA in the Bukit Mertajam areas. Don't forget, in terms of land size, Seberang Prai is larger then the Penang Island.

The Penang CM post? when the UMNO geniuses have created enough seats, they will come in drove to "tuntut hak kami". Do you thing they will give a damn to the social contract?

The last time the CM changed hand was in Melaka. From MCA to UMNO. Penang is the last one. Are we going to lose this one also?

Imagine if that happen?

Joe Gomez
28-08-2005, 08:02 PM
............. Are we going to lose this one also? .........The operative word is WE. Which racial group does it encompass ? The answer is obvious. But uchangeng, IMHO, that is exactly the box which the non-Malays must teach UMNO to think out of. Dont u think so, sir ? Believe me I dont need a reality check. I pinched myself good b4 I typed that out. Cheers.

Bigjoe
28-08-2005, 08:50 PM
My view is based on the fact of sentiments on the ground, non-bumis did not create this sentiments, it was hoisted on to them. When you want negotiate, you make the other guy move first before you make your move.

aroki
28-08-2005, 10:24 PM
UMNO has been working silently in the background over the year to delineate constituencies in the Malay majority mainland Penang, the Seberang area. Break up the larger ones into many smaller ones. And each time that happens, more seats go to UMNO., one or two would go to MIC and Gerakan and even MCA in the Bukit Mertajam areas. Don't forget, in terms of land size, Seberang Prai is larger then the Penang Island.

yes they have done this all over Msia and nearly cause them a downfall in 1999, when the malay majority of them voted for keadilan and pas. The non malays are the ones they had to fall back on be it in Sarawak,Sabah and Peninsula.More so in Peninsula that majority of malays voted for opposition and was saved by the minority malays and majorit non malays.Will 1999 not happen again, I don't think so. So not having a balance will cause them more harm than what they may think.

Joe Gomez
29-08-2005, 10:30 PM
My view is based on the fact of sentiments on the ground, non-bumis did not create this sentiments, it was hoisted on to them. When you want negotiate, you make the other guy move first before you make your move.u r right ........... but the situation had the implicit aquiesence of our founding fathers of all races. We were not sold out then. We were sold out in the implementation i.e by the subsequent morons who ran our gormen & claimed to represent racial segments.
My stand is again ( as I mentioned in an earlier post ) why the blessed f*** cant a Chinese represent my interests ?
Why cant a Malay represent Chinese interests ?
Why cant an Eurasian represent Malay interest ?
Why in the name of everything holy must we have racially segregated parties ?
Arent the Barisan Nasional component parties classic examples of an anachronism ?
Isnt their very existence antithetic to racial integration ?
Doesnt their existence serve to underline our differences rather than our commanlities ?
Who the hell are we bluffing other than ourselves ?