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orchipalar
07-07-2005, 06:11 PM
Err...reports of few blasts in London are being circulated in the news...across the world:( (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=ag5Nm4EsWtvc&refer=top_world_news)

The tubes system came to a halt...n it is reported that few buses blew up as well? :mad:

Hopes that...these bluddy acts of inhumanity has got nothing to do with the Olympics being awarded to the city of London...

orchipalar
07-07-2005, 06:22 PM
Err...Saudara IsaRahim:)...sincerely Orchi hopes no harm came to you...n to your friends in London...)

orchipalar
07-07-2005, 06:34 PM
Err...this is from BBC news UK... (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4659093.stm)

London maybe paralyzed?...from an apparent series of well orchestrated attacks in the busiest financial district of London...casualties reports...could be very high...:(

orchipalar
07-07-2005, 06:42 PM
Err...at least 6 major explosions sent shock waves across EURO stocks markets...

This morning New York Wall Street...NYSE...n Nasdaq would be rocked as well on its opening trading floors very soon...:(

Timo
07-07-2005, 06:44 PM
Watching the news here now. Bombs blew up various buses and tubes. Obviously an act of terrorism. BBC news website is down from the traffic I believe.

orchipalar
07-07-2005, 06:46 PM
Watching the news here now. Bombs blew up various buses and tubes. Obviously an act of terrorism. BBC news website is down from the traffic I believe.

Err...dear Timo:)...Orchi has got BBC.News on the line...no problem so far...yet:)

orchipalar
07-07-2005, 06:50 PM
Err...at least 6 major explosions sent shock waves across EURO stock markets...

This morning New York Wall Street & NYSE...would be rocked as well on its opening trading floors very soon...:(

Err...the shock waves from the those devastating explosions...as expected would be strongly felt by the Nikkei...HangSeng...n all the major Asian stocks exchange trading floors by tomorrow morning...:(

Euros n the Pounds would crash?...USD would shoot thru the roof?...Japanese Yen would lift off?...Orchi ain't a bit surprise if that happens...:o


Ahem...A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HAVE SLEEPLESS NIGHTS!:o

Vixey
07-07-2005, 07:06 PM
Sad sad sad...

:(

What on earth do these Al Qaeda people want? According to the security advisor, they believe AQ is behind this.

:( :(

orchipalar
07-07-2005, 07:07 PM
Err...let us all pray that situations in London won't be further aggrevated...n that many victims from the blasts n those trapped victims in the Subways...would survive thru the tragedy...:(

orchipalar
07-07-2005, 07:10 PM
(CNN) -- Below is a minute-by-minute timeline of the multiple explosions rocking London. All times are British Standard Time.

11.35 London police chief tells Reuters news agency there are "indications of explosives" at one of the blast sites.

11.15 Police say there were at least six explosions in London.

11:15 European Union commissioner for justice and security affairs Franco Frattini tells reporters in Rome that the blasts in London are terrorist attacks.

11:10 Police say they have reports of two deaths and nine injuries at Aldgate East subway station.

11:07 All bus services have been suspended in London, news agencies report.

10.57 British Prime Minister Tony Blair will stay at the G8 summit in Scotland but says he will speak at midday.

10:47 Home Secretary Charles Clarke says multiple London blasts cause "terrible injuries."

10:46 Police report serious casualties in London explosions, but no deaths confirmed.

10:46 Witness to Britain's Sky News says second blast heard in Russell Square.

10:45 Police sources say a bomb is suspected in London bus explosion.

10:33 Police confirm at least three explosions on buses in central London.

10:25 Police confirm explosion on bus in central London in the area around Russell Square.

10:24 Scotland Yard says "multiple explosions" rock London.

10:14 News agencies report a bus has exploded in central London.

10:02 Scotland Yard says it is dealing with a "major incident."

09:53 Metronet says the entire London subway network has been shut down.

Police says incidents are reported at the Aldgate station near the Liverpool Street railway terminal, Edgware Road and King's Cross in north London, Old Street in the financial district and Russell Square in central London, near the British Museum.

09:41 London Underground reports a second explosion at a subway station in northwest London.

09:33 Witnesses say London Underground says services are suspended after "power surge."

09:27 Metronet, the subway maintenance company, says power surge has caused explosion in London tube station.

09:25 Police say "there are walking wounded" in London's financial district.

09:15 British Transport Police say a explosion is reported in London's financial district in the area near Liverpool railway station.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/07/07/london.timeline/

mlin
07-07-2005, 07:13 PM
these are taken from my company's security website...

United Kingdom July 07, 2005 08:38 GMT

London Underground Closed; Explosions Reported in London

The entire London Underground rail network has been closed following a series of power surges across the network. Some of the power surges have caused explosions and police are advising that there are a number of ‘walking wounded’ injuries. All stations are being evacuated. Reports also indicate that there may have been a number of explosions on London buses, which are also being taken out of service.
Initial reports indicate that blasts occurred at the Edgware Road and Aldgate stations, and that power surges affected the Russell Square, King’s Cross and Old Street stations. Police are treating the situation as a ‘major incident’.

There are also unconfirmed reports that at least one explosive device may have been placed on the Underground, although police have not commented on this. Another unconfirmed report suggests that there may have been an explosion on a double-decker bus in Russell Square. *** will update this advisory as more information becomes available.


***Comment

Due to rapid changes in the situation, it is not yet possible to assess whether this is a system failure, terrorist attack or a combination of the two. Nevertheless, the closure of the entire Underground network will cause significant travel disruption for some time, even after the suspension of services is lifted. The closure of the network is highly likely to force commuters into buses and taxis, which will not have the capacity to transport the enormous number of people who use the Underground system, particularly as the power surges occurred during a peak travelling time. In addition to the suspension of services on the Underground, road closures, diversions and significant traffic congestion to the point of gridlock should be expected.


Travel Advice

*** members are advised that there may be a major security threat and that there will undoubtedly be severe travel delays. Due to the reason for the system failure, it is assessed that the network will not be fully operational for some time. The current situation on the Underground may also affect London’s above ground rail network where stations are shared. The suspension of the Underground will also place a significant burden on alternative transport from Heathrow airport, particularly the M4 motorway and the Heathrow Express rail link.

*** members are advised to avoid all major transport nodes. The mobile telephone system appears to have been suspended. Landline communications should be used if possible.

orchipalar
07-07-2005, 07:14 PM
Server Error in '/' Application.
Server Too Busy
Description: An unhandled exception occurred during the execution of the current web request. Please review the stack trace for more information about the error and where it originated in the code.

Exception Details: System.Web.HttpException: Server Too Busy

Source Error:

An unhandled exception was generated during the execution of the current web request. Information regarding the origin and location of the exception can be identified using the exception stack trace below.

Stack Trace:

[HttpException (0x80004005): Server Too Busy]
System.Web.HttpRuntime.RejectRequestInternal(HttpW orkerRequest wr) +150

Version Information: Microsoft .NET Framework Version:1.1.4322.573; ASP.NET Version:1.1.4322.573

http://www.reuters.com/

Err...can't even access Reuters now...:o

orchipalar
07-07-2005, 07:18 PM
Err...checking out for these stocks markets...opening for trading very very soon...:o

New York Stocks Exchange: http://www.nyse.com/

NASDAQ: http://www.nasdaq.com/

WALL STREET JOURNAL: http://www.wsj.com/

Don't be surprised...IF they drop like bombs...:o

lord
07-07-2005, 07:19 PM
Isa, hang in there, buddy. Hope you, your family members and
loved ones are ok.

kaym
07-07-2005, 07:36 PM
Sad sad sad...

:(

What on earth do these Al Qaeda people want? According to the security advisor, they believe AQ is behind this.

:( :(

Nah, I wouldnt assume AQ is behind this. Its too early to tell. England is faced with 2 terrorists groups. Dont forget the IRAs....

orchipalar
07-07-2005, 07:43 PM
(CNN) -- Below is a minute-by-minute timeline of the multiple explosions rocking London. All times are British Standard Time.

12:00 p.m.: British Prime Minister Tony Blair says the "barbaric" London blasts are terrorist attacks and were designed to coincide with the G8 summit in Scotland. He will return to London.

11.35 London police chief tells Reuters news agency there are "indications of explosives" at one of the blast sites.

11.15 Police say there were at least six explosions in London.

11:15 European Union commissioner for justice and security affairs Franco Frattini tells reporters in Rome that the blasts in London are terrorist attacks.

11:10 Police say they have reports of two deaths and nine injuries at Aldgate East subway station.

11:07 All bus services have been suspended in London, news agencies report.

10.57 British Prime Minister Tony Blair will stay at the G8 summit in Scotland but says he will speak at midday.

10:47 Home Secretary Charles Clarke says multiple London blasts cause "terrible injuries."

10:46 Police report serious casualties in London explosions, but no deaths confirmed.

10:46 Witness to Britain's Sky News says second blast heard in Russell Square.

10:45 Police sources say a bomb is suspected in London bus explosion.

10:33 Police confirm at least three explosions on buses in central London.

10:25 Police confirm explosion on bus in central London in the area around Russell Square.

10:24 Scotland Yard says "multiple explosions" rock London.

10:14 News agencies report a bus has exploded in central London.

10:02 Scotland Yard says it is dealing with a "major incident."

09:53 Metronet says the entire London subway network has been shut down.

Police says incidents are reported at the Aldgate station near the Liverpool Street railway terminal, Edgware Road and King's Cross in north London, Old Street in the financial district and Russell Square in central London, near the British Museum.

09:41 London Underground reports a second explosion at a subway station in northwest London.

09:33 Witnesses say London Underground says services are suspended after "power surge."

09:27 Metronet, the subway maintenance company, says power surge has caused explosion in London tube station.

09:25 Police say "there are walking wounded" in London's financial district.

09:15 British Transport Police say a explosion is reported in London's financial district in the area near Liverpool railway station.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/07/07/london.timeline/

London Blasts ~ Timeline Updated...

orchipalar
07-07-2005, 07:48 PM
LATEST BBC NEWS FLASH: Islamist website carries message claiming responsibility for London attacks.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/

orchipalar
07-07-2005, 07:54 PM
AFX News Limited
Al-Qaeda behind London blasts, say Arab sources - BBC
07.07.2005, 08:16 AM

LONDON (AFX) - Arab sources have told the BBC that the multiple attacks on London's transport system today were the work of the al-Qaeda terrorist network, the radio and TV station said.

It said security correspondent Frank Gardener, who is usually well informed, had been given the information by 'Arab sources.'

A number of British security and anti-terror experts have also spoken of a 'co-ordinated attack' that bore the hallmark of terrorism.

newsdesk@afxnews.com

http://www.forbes.com/finance/feeds/afx/2005/07/07/afx2127478.html

orchipalar
07-07-2005, 08:34 PM
(CNN) -- Below is a minute-by-minute timeline of the multiple explosions rocking London. All times are British Standard Time.

12:53 p.m.: Britain's Home Secretary Charles Clarke tells the House of Commons there were four explosions in central London and the underground system will be closed all day. They would decide later in day whether to resume bus services. Earlier six attacks were reported.

12:51: Emergency services personnel tells CNN writer William Chamberlain that all survivors had been evacuated from Kings Cross station, leaving the dead below ground "in the double digits."

12:27: Police and hospital officials tell Reuters that a total of 185 people are wounded across London, 10 of them seriously and seven critically.

12:00: British Prime Minister Tony Blair says the "barbaric" London blasts are terrorist attacks and were designed to coincide with the G8 summit in Scotland. He will return to London.

11.35 London police chief tells Reuters news agency there are "indications of explosives" at one of the blast sites.

11.15 Police say there were at least six explosions in London.

11:15 European Union commissioner for justice and security affairs Franco Frattini tells reporters in Rome that the blasts in London are terrorist attacks.

11:10 Police say they have reports of two deaths and nine injuries at Aldgate East subway station.

11:07 All bus services have been suspended in London, news agencies report.

10.57 British Prime Minister Tony Blair will stay at the G8 summit in Scotland but says he will speak at midday.

10:47 Home Secretary Charles Clarke says multiple London blasts cause "terrible injuries."

10:46 Police report serious casualties in London explosions, but no deaths confirmed.

10:46 Witness to Britain's Sky News says second blast heard in Russell Square.

10:45 Police sources say a bomb is suspected in London bus explosion.

10:33 Police confirm at least three explosions on buses in central London.

10:25 Police confirm explosion on bus in central London in the area around Russell Square.

10:24 Scotland Yard says "multiple explosions" rock London.

10:14 News agencies report a bus has exploded in central London.

10:02 Scotland Yard says it is dealing with a "major incident."

09:53 Metronet says the entire London subway network has been shut down.

Police says incidents are reported at the Aldgate station near the Liverpool Street railway terminal, Edgware Road and King's Cross in north London, Old Street in the financial district and Russell Square in central London, near the British Museum.

09:41 London Underground reports a second explosion at a subway station in northwest London.

09:33 Witnesses say London Underground says services are suspended after "power surge."

09:27 Metronet, the subway maintenance company, says power surge has caused explosion in London tube station.

09:25 Police say "there are walking wounded" in London's financial district.

09:15 British Transport Police say a explosion is reported in London's financial district in the area near Liverpool railway station.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/07/07/london.timeline/

London Blasts ~ Timeline Updated...

Vixey
07-07-2005, 08:53 PM
Nah, I wouldnt assume AQ is behind this. Its too early to tell. England is faced with 2 terrorists groups. Dont forget the IRAs....

I got it off the BBC live coverage as reported by their Security Advisor.

wsp
07-07-2005, 08:59 PM
really speechless for what the al qaeda claimed to have done on the innocent ppl..... all these while
they are enemy to peace!
sometimes just don't understand what some of the radical muslim want... e.g. over 800 ppls got killed throughout the year during restless attacks in southern thailand... ppl got shot, beheaded....inclusive of teachers, monks, students, villagers....
why those hearts are full of hatreds, minds are narrowed, acts are beastful....??? why they are close to devil than god? what kind of teachings do they understand?

isarahim
07-07-2005, 09:10 PM
sometimes just don't understand what some of the radical muslim

I do not want to tweak this into a religion discussion again, but I have to say that personally I do not consider them muslims. They are as far from Islam as possibly can be.

orchipalar
07-07-2005, 09:32 PM
I do not want to tweak this into a religion discussion again, but I have to say that personally I do not consider them muslims. They are as far from Islam as possibly can be.

Err...agrees totally...they can never be anything else but terrorists...they had buried more curse on their own ancestors...n that they might have just put more curse on their future's graves...:rolleyes:

bobkee
07-07-2005, 10:06 PM
I can already see the spin :

"Innocent Lives Lost Due to Anglo-American Arrogant Policy In The Middle East"
"A Piece Of Their Own Cake"
..

fill in the blanks ....

Ski
07-07-2005, 10:17 PM
Statement claiming London attacks
The BBC has located an Islamist website that has published a 200-word statement issued by an organisation saying it carried out the London bombings.
The organisation calls itself the Secret Organisation Group of al-Qaeda [literally the base] of Jihad Organisation in Europe.

The group not previously been heard of.

The website has previously carried statements purporting to be from al-Qaeda. It is not possible to verify such claims published on the web.

This is the full text of the statement.




In the name of God, the merciful, the compassionate, may peace be upon the cheerful one and undaunted fighter, Prophet Muhammad, God's peace be upon him.

Nation of Islam and Arab nation: Rejoice for it is time to take revenge against the British Zionist Crusader government in retaliation for the massacres Britain is committing in Iraq and Afghanistan. The heroic mujahideen have carried out a blessed raid in London. Britain is now burning with fear, terror and panic in its northern, southern, eastern, and western quarters.

We have repeatedly warned the British Government and people. We have fulfilled our promise and carried out our blessed military raid in Britain after our mujahideen exerted strenuous efforts over a long period of time to ensure the success of the raid.

We continue to warn the governments of Denmark and Italy and all the Crusader governments that they will be punished in the same way if they do not withdraw their troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. He who warns is excused.

God says: "You who believe: If ye will aid (the cause of) Allah, He will aid you, and plant your feet firmly."


Sorry to say,they are a bunch of Bloody Barbarians.

Not heard from my close relatives from London, Pray they are all save, unable to call them .Just heard all mobile phones are jammed most probably bombs triggered my mobile phones.

bobkee
07-07-2005, 10:20 PM
I can already see the spin :

"Innocent Lives Lost Due to Anglo-American Arrogant Policy In The Middle East"
"A Piece Of Their Own Cake"
..

fill in the blanks ....

Guess what .. dah ada :

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/article.php4?article_id=6926

"The British government cannot avoid its responsibility for these terrible attacks, which are a consequence of its support for war and occupation in Iraq and Afghanistan."

With all due respect to my left leaning friends and comrades .. just shut up for once will ya?

orchipalar
07-07-2005, 10:31 PM
(CNN) -- Below is a minute-by-minute timeline of the multiple explosions rocking London. All times are British Standard Time.

2:38 U.S. law enforcement sources say the British government has said that at least 40 people have been killed and London hospitals report at least 300 wounded, the AP reports.

1:22 p.m. Police say a bomb on a train at Edgware Road underground exploded as a second train was passing and hit both trains.

12:53 Britain's Home Secretary Charles Clarke tells the House of Commons there were four explosions in central London and the underground system will be closed all day. They would decide later in day whether to resume bus services. Earlier six attacks were reported.

12:51 Emergency services personnel tells CNN writer William Chamberlain that all survivors had been evacuated from Kings Cross station, leaving the dead below ground "in the double digits."

12:35 Scotland Yard revises the number of blasts down to four, three in the underground system and one on a bus. These are: Russell Square and Kings Cross Underground, Moorgate, Aldgate and Liverpool Street Underground, Edgware Road station and Tavistock Square where there was an explosion on a bus.

12:27 Police and hospital officials tell Reuters that a total of 185 people are wounded across London, 10 of them seriously and seven critically.

12:15: A previously unknown group calling itself the Group of al-Qaeda of Jihad Organization in Europe lays claim to the blasts, posting a statement on an Islamist web site. The claim cannot be independently verified.

12:00: British Prime Minister Tony Blair says the "barbaric" London blasts are terrorist attacks and were designed to coincide with the G8 summit in Scotland. He will return to London.

11.35 London police chief tells Reuters news agency there are "indications of explosives" at one of the blast sites.

11.15 Police say there were at least six explosions in London.

11:15 European Union commissioner for justice and security affairs Franco Frattini tells reporters in Rome that the blasts in London are terrorist attacks.

11:10 Police say they have reports of two deaths and nine injuries at Aldgate East subway station.

11:07 All bus services have been suspended in London, news agencies report.

10.57 British Prime Minister Tony Blair will stay at the G8 summit in Scotland but says he will speak at midday.

10:47 Home Secretary Charles Clarke says multiple London blasts cause "terrible injuries."

10:46 Police report serious casualties in London explosions, but no deaths confirmed.

10:46 Witness to Britain's Sky News says second blast heard in Russell Square.

10:45 Police sources say a bomb is suspected in London bus explosion.

10:33 Police confirm at least three explosions on buses in central London.

10:25 Police confirm explosion on bus in central London in the area around Russell Square.

10:24 Scotland Yard says "multiple explosions" rock London.

10:14 News agencies report a bus has exploded in central London.

10:02 Scotland Yard says it is dealing with a "major incident."

09:53 Metronet says the entire London subway network has been shut down.

Police says incidents are reported at the Aldgate station near the Liverpool Street railway terminal, Edgware Road and King's Cross in north London, Old Street in the financial district and Russell Square in central London, near the British Museum.

09:41 London Underground reports a second explosion at a subway station in northwest London.

09:33 Witnesses say London Underground says services are suspended after "power surge."

09:27 Metronet, the subway maintenance company, says power surge has caused explosion in London tube station.

09:25 Police say "there are walking wounded" in London's financial district.

09:15 British Transport Police say a explosion is reported in London's financial district in the area near Liverpool railway station.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/07/07/london.timeline/

London Blasts ~ Timeline Updated...

aroki
07-07-2005, 10:38 PM
First condolence to the victims.God bless them and the rest of the ppl in London.Isarahim - good to hear you are ok. This is bad no matter what has been done as innocent ppl are involved.

Orchisan looks like you have done a great job here, timely updates. Looks like you can be the BBC resident journalist in SJ.

President Bush - have you made this world a safer place as you claimed by going to Iraq? Is it safer now? :(

orchipalar
07-07-2005, 10:41 PM
Err...checking out for these stocks markets...opening for trading very very soon...:o

New York Stocks Exchange: http://www.nyse.com/

NASDAQ: http://www.nasdaq.com/

WALL STREET JOURNAL: http://www.wsj.com/

Don't be surprised...IF they drop like bombs...:o

Err...as expected...the stocks exchange in NY...slides further!...

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orchipalar
07-07-2005, 11:04 PM
3:44 Paddick says no arrests have been in connection with the four attacks and says it is unclear whether suicide bombers were involved.

3:41 Assistant chief ambulance officer Russell Smith says the service has treated 45 patients with serious or critical injuries. A further 300 patients have been treated for minor injuries.

3:28 London deputy police chief Brian Paddick says there are seven confirmed fatalities at Aldgate following an explosion at 8:51 am; 21 dead at King's Cross following an explosion at 8:56 am; and five dead following an explosion at Edgware Road at 9:17 am.

More people died following an explosion on a bus at Upper Woburn Square near Tavistock Place at 9:47 am, but numbers are still unknown.

He says the police had no warning of the attacks and have not received any claims of responsibility.

3:26 Police say at least 33 people have died in three explosions on the London underground and confirms further fatalities following a fourth explosion on a bus.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/07/07/london.timeline/

London Blasts ~ Timeline Updated...

Joe Gomez
07-07-2005, 11:13 PM
This is a sad day.
But the good news is that terrorism of any kind is on the way out.
For this I must quite grudgingly/reluctantly admit that the tough measures (and at times heartless ones) adopted by Bush & Blair had a part to play, including bringing the fight to the lands that harbour terrorists, at the price of several more innocent lives being lost.
Sheeeeeeeesh !!!!

orchipalar
07-07-2005, 11:17 PM
Err...the shock waves from the those devastating explosions...as expected would be strongly felt by the Nikkei...HangSeng...n all the major Asian stocks exchange trading floors by tomorrow morning...:(

Euros n the Pounds would crash?...USD would shoot thru the roof?...Japanese Yen would lift off?...Orchi ain't a bit surprise if that happens...:o


Ahem...A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HAVE SLEEPLESS NIGHTS!:o

Err...at the currency markets...Pounds n Dollars slide against the SwissFranc...Yen and Euro...

Err...Gold prices reached higher...so are treasury bonds markets...

But August Brent future dropped to below $57 per barrel...but rebounded to just above $60 per barrel...

aRwEn
07-07-2005, 11:53 PM
d news from associatd press....

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/B/BRITAIN_EXPLOSION?SITE=NYPLA&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&SECTION=HOME

Jul 7, 11:28 AM EDT

Four London blasts kill 40, injure 350

By JANE WARDELL
Associated Press Writer

LONDON (AP) -- Four blasts rocked the London subway and tore open a packed double-decker bus during the morning rush hour Thursday, sending bloodied victims fleeing in the worst attack on London since World War II. Three U.S. law enforcement officials said at least 40 people were killed and London hospitals reported more than 350 wounded in the terror attacks.

Prime Minister Tony Blair called the attacks "barbaric" and said they were clearly designed to coincide with the G-8 summit opening in Gleneagles, Scotland. They also came a day after London won the bid to host the 2012 Olympics. A group calling itself "The Secret Organization of al-Qaida in Europe" claimed responsibility.

The explosions hit three subway stations and a double-decker bus in rapid succession beginning at 8:51 a.m. (3:51 a.m. EDT) and ended about 40 minutes later when a blast ripped the top off a bus. Implementing an emergency plan, authorities immediately shut down the subway and bus lines that log 8.4 million passenger trips every weekday.

"It was chaos," said Gary Lewis, 32, who was evacuated from a subway train at King's Cross station. "The one haunting image was someone whose face was totally black and pouring with blood."

As the city's transportation system ground to a near-halt, buses were used as ambulances and an emergency medical station was set up at a hotel. Rescue workers, police and ordinary citizens streamed into the streets to help. At the scene of several blasts, specialist emergency workers in orange biochemical suits searched for evidence of biological, chemical or nuclear agents.

Blair, flanked by fellow G-8 leaders, including President Bush, said: "We shall prevail and they shall not."

Earlier, a shaken Blair said, "Whatever they do, it is our determination that they will never succeed in destroying what we hold dear in this country and in other civilized nations throughout the world."

He departed by helicopter back to London, but said the meeting of the world leaders would continue. The G-8 summit's agenda got sidetracked, however, and they decided to delay declarations on climate change and the global economy.

Bush warned Americans to be "extra vigilant" as they head to work after the deadly explosions in London. He said he had conferred with federal homeland security officials back in Washington.

Much of Europe also went on alert. Italy's airports raised alert levels to a maximum. The Czech Republic, Hungary, Russia, the Netherlands, France and Spain also were among those announcing beefed-up security at shopping centers, airports, railways and subways.

The U.N. Security Council was to meet later Thursday to address the London attacks and was expected to pass a resolution condemning the blasts, an official said.

A group calling itself "The Secret Organization of al-Qaida in Europe" posted a claim of responsibility, saying the blasts were in retaliation for Britain's involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The statement also threatened attacks in Italy and Denmark. It was published on a Web site popular with Islamic militants, according to Elaph, a secular Arabic-language news Web site, and Der Spiegel magazine in Berlin, which published the text on their Web sites.

Deputy Assistant Commissioner Brian Paddick said there had been no arrests, and it was unclear whether suicide bombers were involved.

Asked about the claim of responsibility, Paddick said: "We will be looking at that ... at the moment we don't know if that's a legitimate claim or not." He added that British officials had received no prior warning nor did they have any advance intelligence that the attacks would occur.

The authenticity of the statement could not be immediately confirmed, but terrorism experts said the coordinated explosions had the trademarks of the al-Qaida network.

"This is clearly an al-Qaida style attack. It was well-coordinated, it was timed for a political event and it was a multiple attack on a transportation system at rush hour," said Lawrence Freedman, professor of war studies at King's College in London.

European stocks dropped sharply after the blasts, with exchanges in London, Paris and Germany all down about 2 percent. Insurance and travel-related stocks were hit hard, and the British pound also fell. Gold, traditionally seen as a safe haven, rose.

The explosions also unnerved traders on Wall Street, sending stocks down sharply in morning trading.

Three U.S. law enforcement officials said at least 40 people were killed. In London, Paddick said at least 33 people killed in the subway system alone. He confirmed other deaths on the bus but gave no figures.

The U.S. officials spoke on condition of anonymity and said they learned of the number from their British counterparts.

Officials at seven major hospitals surveyed by The Associated Press reported 358 people wounded. Among them, at least 45 were in serious or critical condition, including amputations, fractures and burns, said Russell Smith of London Ambulance Service.

London Mayor Ken Livingstone said the blasts were "mass murder" carried out by terrorists bent on "indiscriminate ... slaughter."

"This was not a terrorist attack against the mighty or the powerful ... it was aimed at ordinary working-class Londoners," said Livingstone, in Singapore where he supported London's Olympic bid. Giselle Davies, an International Olympic Committee spokeswoman, said the committee still had "full confidence" in London.

Jay Kumar, a business owner near the site of the bus blast at Russell Square in central London, said he ran out of his shop when he heard a loud explosion. He said the bus's top deck collapsed, sending people tumbling to the floor.

Many appeared badly injured, and bloodied people ran from the scene.

"A big blast, a big bomb," he told The Associated Press. "People were running this way panicked. They knew it was a bomb. Debris flying all over, mostly glass."

"I was on the bus in front and heard an incredible bang, I turned round and half the double decker bus was in the air," Belinda Seabrook told Press Association, the British news agency.

Traces of explosives were found at two explosion sites, a senior police official said. Police confirmed fatalities but had not confirmed any numbers by early afternoon.

Pope Benedict XVI deplored the "terrorist attacks," calling them "barbaric acts against humanity," and said he was praying for the victim's families.

Explosions were reported at the Aldgate station near the Liverpool Street railway terminal, Edgware Road and King's Cross in north London, Old Street in the financial district and Russell Square, near the British Museum.

"I saw lots of people coming out covered in blood and soot. Black smoke was coming from the station. I saw several people laid out on sheets," office worker Kibir Chibber, 24, said at the Aldgate subway station.

Simon Corvett, 26, on an eastbound train from Edgware Road station, described "this massive huge bang ... It was absolutely deafening and all the windows shattered."

"You could see the carriage opposite was completely gutted," he said. "There were some people in real trouble."

On March 11, 2004, terrorist bombs on four commuter trains in Madrid killed 191 people.

---

AP reporters Jill Lawless, Barry Renfrew, Emily Rotberg, Sarah Blaskovich, Emma Ross and Nick Mead contributed to this report.

© 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

aRwEn
07-07-2005, 11:54 PM
d exact blast locatnz....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4659957.stm

kwchang
08-07-2005, 12:21 AM
I do not want to tweak this into a religion discussion again, but I have to say that personally I do not consider them muslims. They are as far from Islam as possibly can be.

I was watching the interview on BBC around 11pm. The Deputy Assistant Commisioner of Police when asked about "islamist terrorists" by a reporter, immediately corrected that statement by sayiing very clearly that Islam do not equate to terrorism. He continued to say that from what he knows about Islam, these people who terrorise are far from being true Muslims.

I thought that was a very good piece of public advice and certainly very important that everyone keep that in mind. I am glad there are objective and clear-minded people in the face of disaster.

Let us not mix this up with religion. It would be really good if everyone can propagate this one very important ideology.

Choon1980
08-07-2005, 12:27 AM
I'm wondering how Bush/Blair is going to use this as a reason to push for an invasion of Iran. The next few weeks should prove interesting...

orchipalar
08-07-2005, 12:37 AM
I'm wondering how Bush/Blair is going to use this as a reason to push for an invasion of Iran. The next few weeks should prove interesting...

Err...NO!...NO!...NO!...should these 2 fellows have got what it takes...they should aim at seeking n flushing out those freaking cursed n NOT even deserving to be sent to hell bluddy terrorists creatures...n those freaking terrorists organizations which are harbouring them bastards...n then blast them ALL up to smithereens...n BURNT them up in smokes...!!!:mad:

Vixey
08-07-2005, 12:49 AM
If I were a Muslim, I would be really mad that the holy religion of Islam is being used as an excuse for such cowardly despicable acts. I wonder if all the Islamic nations are doing the best they can to flush out and stomp on these vermin!

orchipalar
08-07-2005, 01:07 AM
3:41 Assistant chief ambulance officer Russell Smith says the service has treated 45 patients with serious or critical injuries. A further 300 patients have been treated for minor injuries.

4:25 Police issue the following casualty hotline number for people concerned about friends and relatives: +44 (0)870 1566 344.

4:32 Transport authorities say Docklands Light Railway services in east London and mainline rail services have resumed, except out of King's Cross and Victoria stations. Buses in central London are also returning to service.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/07/07/london.timeline/

Vixey
08-07-2005, 01:15 AM
Yesterday, we were annoyed with Londoners and English people. London won the games and Paris lost them. And today we wake up. We realise that these little fights between old friends are for spoilt children. We are all facing a huge challenge. We have all to fight terrorism. We are all Londoners today. We all feel sad and share the pain of the one who are suffering today. Do not worry my friends, we will be with you in this fight and we will win it.
Julien, Paris, France

BBC Your Say (http://http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/4661415.stm)

Alexius Lim
08-07-2005, 01:31 AM
If I were a Muslim, I would be really mad that the holy religion of Islam is being used as an excuse for such cowardly despicable acts. I wonder if all the Islamic nations are doing the best they can to flush out and stomp on these vermin!


Originally Posted by isarahim
I do not want to tweak this into a religion discussion again, but I have to say that personally I do not consider them muslims. They are as far from Islam as possibly can be.

Unfortunately, whe things like this happens - there will be people that would react without thinking. Sadly, I am sure that there will be reprisal attacks on the communities and people that would for obvious reasons being singled out.... I just hope that the law enforcement people would be ready to stop such reprisals from actually happening. Otherwise this can spiral out into something worst... especially when people start getting paranoid.... :(

As Isarahim said... I also do hope that all MUSLIMS would also stand up and condemn these acts and go further and treat these inhuman beings as outcasts of Islam... as these acts of terrorism should never be in the name of Islam or any other religion... :mad:

Vixey
08-07-2005, 01:37 AM
One of my best friends is an Arab girl. After we finished our studies together, she left for the US to join some other members of her family in Texas. Needless to say, after 9/11, people who were once their friends and neighbours soon turned a cold shoulder. Even till now, she has to put up with a lot of comments and snide remarks.

I really pray that when the shock has subsided, more innocents lives are not lost through anger and hate.

jessi24
08-07-2005, 03:25 AM
Throughout history 'God' has always been used as an excuse. It will not stop ever due to the greed of human. Greed for more power, more territories to conquer. I do not believe that a person who actually believes that 'God' exists will actually believe in brutality, inhumane acts of violence. These so called 'muslim' terrorist brings shame to the religion.
I believe the people who really believe in God knows that what these scum are doing is not the will of God but the will of there own sick minds and greed and those who retaliate are actually on the same level as them. I really pity such people who have such hatred in their souls to resort to killing of innocents. Sad......

isarahim
08-07-2005, 03:46 AM
As Isarahim said... I also do hope that all MUSLIMS would also stand up and condemn these acts and go further and treat these inhuman beings as outcasts of Islam... as these acts of terrorism should never be in the name of Islam or any other religion... :mad:

They already are. See:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4660411.stm

I was also very happy to hear a very quick and direct condemnation from the Palestinian leaders. Because after all, Al Qaeda and the like are using the Palestinians as an excuse for these acts.

isarahim
08-07-2005, 04:11 AM
Needless to say, after 9/11, people who were once their friends and neighbours soon turned a cold shoulder. Even till now, she has to put up with a lot of comments and snide remarks.

It sure will happen. However, generally the Brits, largely because of long standing influences from the Commonwealth, a great degree of cosmopolitanism and better quality news coverage, are significantly more educated than the Yanks, especially compared to the inland states like Texas and the 'bible belt'.

So I don't think these prejudices ever will become as serious in Britain as they have become in the US.

mlin
08-07-2005, 08:52 AM
isa - i am glad u are okay

CCY
08-07-2005, 09:13 AM
First condolence to the victims.God bless them and the rest of the ppl in London.Isarahim - good to hear you are ok. This is bad no matter what has been done as innocent ppl are involved.

Orchisan looks like you have done a great job here, timely updates. Looks like you can be the BBC resident journalist in SJ.

President Bush - have you made this world a safer place as you claimed by going to Iraq? Is it safer now? :(

Condolences to all that is affected. Also no thanks to those that can make a difference but do not make that difference. The embers of hate is rekindle by the fast moving army wind in the mid east. Maybe 40 dead is a big deal for the brits but 100k of Iraqi's is a small one. Each will be calling the other a terrorist from their point. Where is the most viable solution to all these massacre ? Kill the symptom or kill the source? An eye for an eye?

Ski
08-07-2005, 09:14 AM
HI

It just baffles me that terrorists think this will make people take them seriously, especially when they dont value life. Once you resort to murder such as this nobody is interested in what you've gotta say, you don't have the right to be listened too. I know there are very complex issues at heart of such problems but at the end of the day, regardless of race, faith or political preference it's just murder.

CCY
08-07-2005, 09:20 AM
Err...NO!...NO!...NO!...should these 2 fellows have got what it takes...they should aim at seeking n flushing out those freaking cursed n NOT even deserving to be sent to hell bluddy terrorists creatures...n those freaking terrorists organizations which are harbouring them bastards...n then blast them ALL up to smithereens...n BURNT them up in smokes...!!!:mad:

Orchi ..that is another extreme view that will allow the fire to go on longer than is like.

aroki
08-07-2005, 09:34 AM
an eye for an eye...will this stop the wars and bombs?? The man from Texas claimed it will.Has it?Were there terrorist in iraq prior to the invasion? How many are dying now? Some studies claim more than when Saddam was in power.

So shall we go in with guns and shoot those ppl who did it? Lets investigate who did this and bring them to justice. The British ppl are unlike the ppl from some from Texas. They are more balanced in thinking,rational and more exposed to the world.

CCY
08-07-2005, 09:38 AM
an eye for an eye...will this stop the wars and bombs?? The man from Texas claimed it will.Has it?Were there terrorist in iraq prior to the invasion? How many are dying now? Some studies claim more than when Saddam was in power.

So shall we go in with guns and shoot those ppl who did it? Lets investigate who did this and bring them to justice. The British ppl are unlike the ppl from some from Texas. They are more balanced in thinking,rational and more exposed to the world.

Suspected terrorist is enough to be presented with a missile.....

aRwEn
08-07-2005, 10:55 AM
anyone need information about your love ones in London? if u can't reach them, please call:

Tel: 4420-7919-0260/0261/0264 (line open 24hrs).
the above number is specially set up for Malaysians only.

searchin for malaysian students in london? please call:

Tel: 4420-7985-1252

isarahim
08-07-2005, 03:14 PM
Iraq was a fundamental mistake from almost every angle. No question about it. Blair tried his absolute best to pursuade Bush not to do it.

I've said many times that the anglo-saxon politics work best when the muscle is in Washington and brain is in London. However, Bush is different from his predecessors. He doesn't listen. Every American president in the 20th century has been told by his predecessor "whatever you do, listen to the Brits". The inner pentagonal courtyard of Pentagon still flies the Union Jack version of the Stars & Stripes, i.e. the version with Union Jack in the corner instead of the stars. The American masonic lodges still take orders from their British based grand lodges and grand-masters.

But Bush broke this tradition.

In addition, the sad fact is that Bush can afford - or at least thinks he can afford - some 20 aircraft carriers whereas Blair can only afford 3.

Because of the special alliance Blair had to follow Bush's folly, and had to invent some story for the British people to justify it. This has obviously put Blair in a very awkward position the last two years because he has had to defend something he actually doesn't believe in himself. But he still shouldered up with Bush because breaking ranks would have been worse. Breaking ranks at that point would have reduced his influence in other areas, for instance the Palestinian cause, Africa etc. In addition, Bush's days are counted, and there is hopefully life after Bush. So Britain had to stay put, though they hated what they were compelled into.

I believe that no matter whether we like it or not, the anglo-saxon countries will remain the dominant political force in the world for at least another century. The problem is that with US having the larger clout and at the same time being somewhat politically unpredictable, we are creating major new conflicts in the world and at the same time have reduced overall ability to address existing conflicts.

Therefore, in the long run, US needs a political challenger of comparable power. And this challenger has to come from another part of the anglo-saxon world, an ally. Only then will they listen regardless of who's in the white house. Furthermore, the Russian's can't do it for a very long time. I don't think we can expect China and/or India to be world political players even though they will certainly be the leading economic powers within a few decades. However, as soon as they become influential, they will have enormous domesting issues to address and they completely lack international diplomatic tradition. European Union perhaps, but they have a long way to go. Their diverse political systems will be a stumbling block. And the issue with an effective European defence force vs a NATO defence force needs to be sorted out.

Even though it this idea might not sound probable the way things are going, I personally believe that a reestablishment of the commonwealth as a political power with (at least initially) the British PM as the lead but with a fully democratic process - a commonwealth senate - in setting policies, and European Union style power sharing between the member countries, which drawing from similar political and legal systems and strong multicultural, multiracial and multireligious assets, would be the ideal counterweight to the US. Such a reestablished and renovated entity ensure involvement and real influence of muslim countries, african countries and asian countries and still not question or challenge the, what I believe, irreplaceable anglo-saxon dominance in world politics.

isarahim
08-07-2005, 03:26 PM
anyone need information about your love ones in London? if u can't reach them, please call:

Tel: 4420-7919-0260/0261/0264 (line open 24hrs).
the above number is specially set up for Malaysians only.

searchin for malaysian students in london? please call:

Tel: 4420-7985-1252

Thank you Arwen, that's very good information.

cordy
08-07-2005, 06:11 PM
Hi all,

my thoughts on this senseless carnage .....

Rgds,

Cordy

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


It was a day like no other day for Londoners,
Basking in the winning of 2012 Olympic host glory,
Yet within 24 hours of jubilation quickly turns to tragedy.

For blasts ripped the heart of London so senselessly,
Acts of mayhem and terror brought on so wickedly,
Lead to loss of lives and the many wounded so severely.

Who are these self-appointed executioners?
Who thrives on being bloodshed practitioners,
How would such carnage gain any supporters?

My thoughts and prayers go to all affected families,
May they gain the strength to overcome this calamity.

(8/7/05)

bobkee
08-07-2005, 06:21 PM
The inner pentagonal courtyard of Pentagon still flies the Union Jack version of the Stars & Stripes, i.e. the version with Union Jack in the corner instead of the stars. The American masonic lodges still take orders from their British based grand lodges and grand-masters.

I was about to just say "WTF?" but the forum would not allow me to post such a short message.

I would agree that the British tend to be a bit more diplomatic in how they deal with perceived threats but this is really going over the edge. No wonder we still have books like "The International Jew" and "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" gracing our bookshops.

patrick
08-07-2005, 11:31 PM
We had a harrowing day yesterday trying to contact my niece in London.

Thank god my niece is fine. When we first heard the news, we tried to call her at her office in London. We kept hearing her voice over her answering machine but just couldnt reach her. We then called her home but no one took the call. When we tried to reach her handphone, we kept getting a message to try again later.

This went on until late into the night (Malaysian time) until about 11pm when we caught her at home. Phew....thank god she was fine.

Normally she would have been on one of those tubes at that time. So fortunately, she didnt feel well yesterday morning and decided to visit a doctor near her home which is outside of London. After that, she felt better and decided she should go to her office. She took a train down but was stopped at one of the stations. Passengers were asked to leave the tube and find their way by other means. She managed to get on a bus but that too was stopped while on its way and she decided to go home when she couldnt get through to her office by handphone. She only found out how close she had come to being in one of the trains that was blasted when she got home.
She was really lucky...thank god!

orchipalar
08-07-2005, 11:59 PM
Err...Orchi tells you wot...in no manner that Orchi implies what bush n blair did in Irag is right or otherwise...

But they bluddy declared military war to begin with...at sad n damn hussein...

Having said that...Orchi believes n observes..thus far...them freaking lowlife cowards n terrorist creatures...have been committing nothing else but lashing out their senseless 'revenge' on those defenceless...unprovacative n innocent civilians only...err...hasn't it? :confused:

kwchang
09-07-2005, 12:25 AM
Have anyone tried to think sideways a bit?
What if someone WANTED the AlQaeda to take the blame?
Planted a few bombs (4 to be exact) to cause some panic, put up a website making a claim from a group no one has heard of.
Then the US and UK gets heated up and start another conflict, perhaps in Afghanistan or Iran?
Sounds plausible to me.
Compared to 9/11, this episode in London seems like a pin-prick. Would a terrorist group make such a small pop when they had the opportunity to make it bigger?

Choon1980
09-07-2005, 12:30 AM
Therefore, in the long run, US needs a political challenger of comparable power. And this challenger has to come from another part of the anglo-saxon world, an ally. Only then will they listen regardless of who's in the white house. Furthermore, the Russian's can't do it for a very long time. I don't think we can expect China and/or India to be world political players even though they will certainly be the leading economic powers within a few decades. However, as soon as they become influential, they will have enormous domesting issues to address and they completely lack international diplomatic tradition. European Union perhaps, but they have a long way to go. Their diverse political systems will be a stumbling block. And the issue with an effective European defence force vs a NATO defence force needs to be sorted out.

Even though it this idea might not sound probable the way things are going, I personally believe that a reestablishment of the commonwealth as a political power with (at least initially) the British PM as the lead but with a fully democratic process - a commonwealth senate - in setting policies, and European Union style power sharing between the member countries, which drawing from similar political and legal systems and strong multicultural, multiracial and multireligious assets, would be the ideal counterweight to the US. Such a reestablished and renovated entity ensure involvement and real influence of muslim countries, african countries and asian countries and still not question or challenge the, what I believe, irreplaceable anglo-saxon dominance in world politics.

Interesting post, isarahim. However, I think that BRIC (Brazil - Russia - India - China) would serve as that counterweight to the US.

http://www.energybulletin.net/4444.html

And there's tons of other countries thats pissed at the US. Venezeula is cozying up to China and just bought 100,000 AKs from Russia. Iran could take down the US economy by stopping oil exports, again. Though, the rest of the world would be taken down as well. $100 an oil barrel, anyone???

mysticalangel
10-07-2005, 01:27 PM
I have a brother based in London and we had been trying to call him from day 1 of the explosion. Had only manage to talk to him an hour ago, when another friend had kindly paged for him. Apparently, he has this stupid habit of leaving his phone the office, esp when he goes on his rounds. He had been on duty since day 1, on 18 hrs shifts and had not being home for a few days already. He says things situation at hospitals are a bit chaotic at the moment. The hospital he works for had been told by authorities to prepare themselves for another round of "attack". Anyways, the conversation had to be cut short as he needed to get what ever little sleep he can.

I also happen to have quite a bit of friends based in London and don't know if they're okay since I had not been in touch with some of them for a while. :(

kwchang
11-07-2005, 01:20 AM
Please note that on day 1 of the event, the communications lines in London were jammed. So do understand that in such events, it is impossible to call anyone. People should try email instead. What about Skype?

jpostill
13-07-2005, 06:39 AM
Went down to London today, to King's Cross area where the bombers struck. Not out of morbid curiosity, I had some business to attend to. On the way back to the East Midlands where I live, all trains to that part of England had been cancelled as the police were reportedly deactivating a bomb at Luton train station. Had to travel back via Birmingham, a long detour, occasionally wondering whether the tracks were clear of explosives. I can corroborate what the press have been saying all along: if people were scared, they didn't show it.

Ski
13-07-2005, 08:06 AM
There are evidence now that there were 4 men, British citizens of Pakistan orgin- from Leeds - who each blew themselves up in some kind of suicide pact - one body has yet to be formally identified, but is thought to be one of the men, responsible for the bus bomb. The other three have yet to be found. The police are very candid but it appears the explosives used were of military stuff.

If this news is confirmed then this is first bombing of this nature in the Western Europe.

The war of terror on innocents has shifted from the Middle East to Europe, indeed its very frigtening especially if you have friends and relatives living abroad.

bobkee
13-07-2005, 12:39 PM
If this news is confirmed then this is first bombing of this nature in the Western Europe.
Nah .. there was Madrid. Back in the 70's & 80's we also had similiar bombings in Berlin and some city in the Netherlands. It's not really new in Western Europe. ETA bombings have been happening in Spain and until recently Britain had to deal with the IRA and Loyalist terrorists.

Ski
13-07-2005, 01:29 PM
Nah .. there was Madrid. Back in the 70's & 80's we also had similiar bombings in Berlin and some city in the Netherlands. It's not really new in Western Europe. ETA bombings have been happening in Spain and until recently Britain had to deal with the IRA and Loyalist terrorists.


Seven prime suspects in last year's Madrid train bombings blew themselves up three weeks after the attacks when surrounded by police in a flat in a suburb of the Spanish capital. The other places I am not sure.

jpostill
13-07-2005, 04:07 PM
Hi bobkee,

it's the first time suicide bombers have struck in Western Europe.

John

ksj_cool
13-07-2005, 05:24 PM
next bomb where???

isarahim
13-07-2005, 06:24 PM
I would agree that the British tend to be a bit more diplomatic in how they deal with perceived threats but this is really going over the edge. No wonder we still have books like "The International Jew" and "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" gracing our bookshops.

There are a lot of spurious conspiration theories around. The "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" has been demonstrated by several researchers to be a forgery, a concocted document, based on another document with a completely different purpose.

And certainly, there are hundreds of conspiration theories involving 'the Jews controlling the world' theme or variants thereof.

However, the UK-US special relation is real and official. It's been referred to by every UK prime minister and every US president since WW II. In fact there are references to it all the way back to the 1813-1815 war whereby US recognised the loyalist colonies (Canada). We can of course discuss what elements that keep it together, and the exact mechanisms which underpins it. Common heritage and common language are obvious. Are there perhaps others?

The masonic link is well researched and demonstrated in several books. One can ignore it or incorporate it.

isarahim
13-07-2005, 06:33 PM
Interesting post, isarahim. However, I think that BRIC (Brazil - Russia - India - China) would serve as that counterweight to the US.
And there's tons of other countries thats pissed at the US.

Would these countries launch coordinated diplomatic efforts? Certainly interesting, but I believe unrealistic.

And we can ask ourselves the question, would we really want international politics dominated by anyone of those? What if, for instance, it was India or China steaming around the world with 20 aircraft carriers tinkering with every little conflict? Would this be much better than the anglo-saxon dominance which now have lasted for close to 500 years?

I'd take a post-Bush US - moderated by a revitalised Commonwealth - any day.

Choon1980
14-07-2005, 01:17 AM
Would these countries launch coordinated diplomatic efforts? Certainly interesting, but I believe unrealistic.
Actually, it's the other way round for me. :D I believe that diplomatic relations between the US and what few friends it has left in the world will deteriorate as it moves for a power grab for the last remaining sources of cheap oil. It already doesn't like the fact that India and China are starting to do this as well. It's just a matter of when push comes to shove. The push was Iraq. Where's the push gonna be? Hmm....

Once a country/coalition decides to go overboard, someone will eventually stand up to them, I just happen to think that it's these four that will do it.



And we can ask ourselves the question, would we really want international politics dominated by anyone of those? What if, for instance, it was India or China steaming around the world with 20 aircraft carriers tinkering with every little conflict? Would this be much better than the anglo-saxon dominance which now have lasted for close to 500 years?

I'd take a post-Bush US - moderated by a revitalised Commonwealth - any day.

This is interesting too, I think. The problem is that the world really hasn't known anything other than anglo-saxon dominance for centuries. Its pretty much unknown how India or China would behave if they found themselves numero uno in the world. Of course, any country that resolves any conflict with 20 aircraft carriers will eventually find themselves in the same situation as the US right now. Reviled and hated by most of the world.

dragonfly
14-07-2005, 12:10 PM
The suspects in the London bombings have been identified. British born of Pakistani descend! Again the element of Pakistan in terror. Since the creation of the state in the '40s till now.....what have Pakistan to offer the world? Nothing....but militants and terrorists in the name of religion. The religious schools and training camps are 'factories' churning out militants as a 'product' to be exported worldwide. At first they created and nurtured the Talibans in Afghan and now the Talibans are gone, those graduates are putting their skills elsewhere.

Honour killings and gang rapes meted out to women as punishments is rampant in that country.....where is the religious values.....the religion which militants claim to protect??

As our government has given the green light, soon there will be thousands of Pakistanis flocking to our country as foreign workers and in no time will spin their web of sleeper cells targeting at 'infidels' and claiming local victims as 'collateral damage' and justifying their cause as long as a single infidel is killed.

God! Have mercy on Malaysia.

TheEdge
15-07-2005, 10:07 AM
Have anyone tried to think sideways a bit?
What if someone WANTED the AlQaeda to take the blame?
Planted a few bombs (4 to be exact) to cause some panic, put up a website making a claim from a group no one has heard of.
Then the US and UK gets heated up and start another conflict, perhaps in Afghanistan or Iran?
Sounds plausible to me.
Compared to 9/11, this episode in London seems like a pin-prick. Would a terrorist group make such a small pop when they had the opportunity to make it bigger?

If This Were A Real Islamic Attack
If these attacks were Muslims, the targets would be Jews. 'Rich and powerful Jews', to be more exact.
A Jewish conference, an exclusive Jewish restaurant, synagogues, Jewish banks, etc. The Muslims would want the world to know that Jews are the Muslim's real enemies.
Who benefits from bombing a bus-load of working Britains?
Israeli Terror Teams Behind London Attacks (http://judicial-inc.biz/London_bus.htm)

TheEdge
15-07-2005, 10:23 AM
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/images/bob_kiley_photo.jpg

The Commissioner Bob Kiley

Prior to his appointment as Commissioner of Transport for London in January 2001, Robert Kiley served as President and Chief Executive Officer of the New York City Partnership. The Partnership, the city's leading business and civic organisation, improves the city's economic climate through advocacy and public-private initiatives in education, job creation, affordable housing, and neighbourhood development. Its membership reflects the impressive breadth of the city's private, non-profit and civic leadership.

From 1991 to 1994 he was President of Fischbach Corporation, a major New York-based construction and engineering company, and in 1994 became its Chairman until assuming his position at the New York City Partnership in 1995.

From 1983 until 1990, he was Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA). At the MTA he was responsible for five transportation agencies serving the New York Metropolitan Region where he directed the rebuilding of New York's public transportation system and restructured its management. He led successful efforts to obtain more than $16 billion from the New York State legislature for capital improvements to the city's subways and buses, commuter railroads, tunnels and bridges in the MTA region.

Robert Kiley has consulted with corporations and public agencies at the Management Analysis Center (now Cap Gemini) then headquartered in Cambridge, Massachusetts. In the 1970s he was Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority in Boston and served as Deputy Mayor of the City of Boston.

Early in his career, he was with the CIA, where he served as Manager of Intelligence Operations and then as Executive Assistant to the Director.

Robert Kiley is a Member of the Council on Foreign Relations, Board Member of the Salzburg International Seminar, the American Repertory Theater, MONY Group Inc, the Princeton Review Inc and Edison Schools, Inc. He is also on the Advisory Board of the Harvard University Center for State and Local Government.

A Magna Cum Laude graduate of the University of Notre Dame, Indiana, USA, Robert Kiley and his wife Rona now live in London.
source (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/chief_officers.shtml)

orchipalar
15-07-2005, 10:58 AM
The Muslims would want the world to know that Jews are the Muslim's real enemies.
Who benefits from bombing a bus-load of working Britains?

Err...this is one of many such things that Orchi fails to understand...

True Muslims...Buddhists...Christians....where got enemies?

There are Jews...n there are them freaking Israeli terrorists...

There are Muslims...n there are them freaking Talibans...Mujahideens...Al-Qaedas...Abu Sayabs...Jemaah Islamiahs...

There are Christians...n there are them freaking Bushies...IRAs...n former CIS nations terrorists...
:rolleyes:

dragonfly
15-07-2005, 03:22 PM
If these attacks were Muslims, the targets would be Jews. 'Rich and powerful Jews', to be more exact.
A Jewish conference, an exclusive Jewish restaurant, synagogues, Jewish banks, etc. The Muslims would want the world to know that Jews are the Muslim's real enemies.
[B]Who benefits from bombing a bus-load of working Britains?[/


How many of the muslim militants attacks were targeted at Jews?? How many of the victims of Bali bombings were 'rich and powerful Jews'? How many Jews died in the madrid train bombings? Is train travel exclusive to Jews? How many Jews were among the Russian Beslan school children? Were the NY twin towers exclusively Jewish. How many Jews were there in the midst of Iraqi children receiving candy handouts in the recent suicide bombings?? 27 children, with scores injured+ 1 US soldier died. If Jews are the target....why not go to Israel and start killing all the Jews??

The Edge, don't talk thru your a**. Are you justifying this carnage by implying that everybody has to pay a price in this world because Muslims hate Jews?? Will you say the same thing if your whole family had been in the bombed trains or bus??

Vixey
15-07-2005, 03:26 PM
The Muslims would want the world to know that Jews are the Muslim's real enemies.
Who benefits from bombing a bus-load of working Britains?

Err...this is one of many such things that Orchi fails to understand...

True Muslims...Buddhists...Christians....where got enemies?

There are Jews...n there are them freaking Israeli terrorists...

There are Muslims...n there are them freaking Talibans...Mujahideens...Al-Qaedas...Abu Sayabs...Jemaah Islamiahs...

There are Christians...n there are them freaking Bushies...IRAs...n former CIS nations terrorists...
:rolleyes:

*tabik*tabik*tabik* for Orchi...

Ski
15-07-2005, 03:46 PM
Hi


I raise my hat to the British Intelligience and to the Police Force for their swift investigations in identifying the Murderers and to locate their homes...Well done!!! you deserve all the praise.

bobkee
15-07-2005, 04:22 PM
Accusations such as these will just increase the suspicions that Islam is like that; paranoid and intolerant of different opinions. Even the rabid hatred of all things Jewish is an indication of those attitudes. What's to stop them from placing every other "ism" apart from their interpretation of Islam in the list?

Perhaps one should take heed of the following (http://www.washtimes.com/world/20050709-104055-3541r.htm) by Amir Taheri of the Al-Sharq Al Awsat (http://www.asharqalawsat.com/) newspaper :

Until we hear the voices of the Muslims condemning attacks of this kind with no words [of qualification] such as 'but' and 'if,' the suicide bombers and the murderers will have an excuse to think that they enjoy the support of all Muslims.
Then again, it might be a MOSSAD front too? :rolleyes:

orchipalar
15-07-2005, 04:39 PM
Hi
I raise my hat to the British Intelligience and to the Police Force for their swift investigations in identifying the Murderers and to locate their homes...Well done!!! you deserve all the praise.

Err...dear Ski:)...kindly direct Orchi to the latest development or breakthru...can't seem to find it anywhere...:confused:

ivanhow
15-07-2005, 10:12 PM
Err...dear Ski:)...kindly direct Orchi to the latest development or breakthru...can't seem to find it anywhere...:confused:
Hi Orchi-san, :)
Perhaps this is something like a breakthru or like his neighbour puts it, it's something unbelievable (http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2005/7/15/nation/11493861&sec=nation)?

Ski
16-07-2005, 07:54 AM
Err...dear Ski:)...kindly direct Orchi to the latest development or breakthru...can't seem to find it anywhere...:confused:
Mohammad Sidique Khan: Aged 30, from Beeston, Leeds, recently moved to Dewsbury, married with baby. ID found at Edgware Road blast site.
Hasib Mir Hussain (confirmed): Aged 18, lived Holbeck, Leeds. Reported missing on day of bombings. Said to have turned very religious two years ago. ID found in No 30 bus.
Shehzad Tanweer (confirmed; above): Aged 22, born Bradford, lived Beeston, Leeds. Studied religion in Pakistan. Forensic evidence linking him to Aldgate blast.
Lindsey Germaine: Jamaican-born man who lived in Buckinghamshire.


Orchi

Check BBC

TQ

TheEdge
16-07-2005, 01:51 PM
The Edge, don't talk thru your a**.

I normally do not respond to those who can't reply to someone else's views in a civilised manner. Typical??? Hmm..

Islam has been around for 1400 years.
Looking only at history in the last 150 years can you point to suicide as a method of fighting it's enemy?
The French experience with Muslim terrorists in Algeria had its bombers, but no suicide bombers. The English experience in fighting the Arabs in 1918 in Iraq was fierce, but no suicide bombers.
Israel has been fighting the Palestinians since 1948, where are the Muslim suicide bombers in those years between 1948 and 1985?

If it were a religious predilection it would not have made a sudden appearance in Israel within the last twenty years.
Islam is a worldwide religion, fighting battles in places far from the Palestinian conflict – before 1985 where were the Muslim suicide bombers outside of Israel?

TheEdge
16-07-2005, 01:55 PM
I raise my hat to the British Intelligience and to the Police Force for their swift investigations in identifying the Murderers and to locate their homes...Well done!!! you deserve all the praise.

Only 11 out of 52 dead have been IDed, but they claim to have IDed all four bombers?

11 London Blast Victims Identified (http://www.zaman.com/?bl=hotnews&alt=&trh=20050713&hn=21681)

TheEdge
16-07-2005, 02:07 PM
Bombing suspects' identities shock Leeds (http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe/articles/2005/07/14/bombing_suspects_identities_shock_leeds/?page=2)

Note the next to last paragraph, where the police are trying to explain away why the ID documents of one accused bomber were found in two different locations.
Rather than come to the obvious conclusion of documents deliberately planted to frame someone for the crimes, the police have come up with this bizarre theory that the bombers just sort of decided to carry each others' credit cards!

No wonder they never found Jack the Ripper! :)

TheEdge
16-07-2005, 02:21 PM
How many Jews were there in the midst of Iraqi children receiving candy handouts in the recent suicide bombings?? 27 children, with scores injured+ 1 US soldier died.

Car bomb toll now 32 (http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,15926412%255E23109,00.html)

Read this carefully. US forces went into the neighborhood to warn of a possible car bomb, then lured the kids into one spot with candy?

TheEdge
16-07-2005, 02:40 PM
How many of the muslim militants attacks were targeted at Jews?? How many of the victims of Bali bombings were 'rich and powerful Jews'? How many Jews died in the madrid train bombings? Is train travel exclusive to Jews? How many Jews were among the Russian Beslan school children? Were the NY twin towers exclusively Jewish. How many Jews were there in the midst of Iraqi children receiving candy handouts in the recent suicide bombings?? 27 children, with scores injured+ 1 US soldier died. If Jews are the target....why not go to Israel and start killing all the Jews??

You are right. You are absolutely right. The death tolls at these sites have minimal Jewish casualties. The victims are often not even Israelis, let alone important Israelis. Reports of victims and damage are deliberately vague, merely giving an impression, not facts or pictures. Asian and South American workers, other Muslims.

After thinking carefully about suicide as a tactic and putting yourself in the place of a person contemplating this ultimate sacrifice – how would you choose a target to make your death worthwhile - useful to force an end to the occupation of your country?

Would you blow yourself up in a shopping mall toy store, the entrance to a super market, a bus stop, near a hitchhiking post, in a restaurant frequented by foreigners, outside a shopping mall? It may not be possible to get through the security to hit the Knesset while in session, but surely you could come up with something better than a train or a bus?

If the purpose of the suicide bomber is to end the occupation of his country and to inflict the maximum number of casualties on the target society why are the targets so disparate and scattered, without a clear relation to the occupation?

Why are suicide bombings publicized before any proof is brought by investigation?

For me these questions underline the illogical nature of suicide bombings. I believe to find logic, you have to see the suicide bomber as a fabrication of the Zionists for their own purposes.

To demonize Islam

To make Muslims look stupid, fanatical, and murderous.

To create worldwide terrorism that they can claim has nothing to do with Israel, but everything to do with Islam.

To attack those who think themselves to be allies, but are not, e.g. America, Spain, Britain.

To shift the blame for any bombing Zionists perpetrate onto the Muslims, simply by calling it a suicide bombing.

To control public opinion in favor of Israel as the most grieved victim of terrorism.

To justify apartheid in Israel.

To justify war in the Middle East with the spoils of war accruing to themselves, while the costs are borne by their “allies”.

So it's not the fundamentalism, it's not the occupation, it's not suicide, it's not a guerilla tactic, it's the timeless strategy of the Zionist working to advantage themselves.

TheEdge
16-07-2005, 02:56 PM
Are you justifying this carnage by implying that everybody has to pay a price in this world because Muslims hate Jews?? Will you say the same thing if your whole family had been in the bombed trains or bus??

It is the modus operandi of the Jews to stand aside while their enemies fight one another. It is well known that the Jews consider Muslims their enemy, but most people in the world do not see themselves as the enemy of the Jews, when in fact they are. Why are they in Iraq? Is that really their battle?

A comparison can be made of WW I and II in which Europe was invited to self-destruct. Where were the Jews in those fights that benefited them beyond all others? Why is it that the Jewish banking interests fund both sides of a conflict? They come out of these terrible wars richer and more powerful while the power of the world was diminished.

Do not forget, Britain and the US are still at war. So were you really surprised about the bombings? Do you mean it is ok to bomb Basra and not King's Cross? Or the civilians killed in Fallujah unworthy of mention compared to the London bombings?
I personally do not condone or support these acts, morally it is wrong but... you reap what you sow.

isarahim
16-07-2005, 03:21 PM
Only 11 out of 52 dead have been IDed, but they claim to have IDed all four bombers?

First, you need to take into account that there are several levels of identification. The 11 out of 52 means 'identification beyond doubt'.

Second, obviously SY would focus on the criminals first, so that they can prevent this from happening again.

isarahim
16-07-2005, 03:24 PM
Rather than come to the obvious conclusion of documents deliberately planted to frame someone for the crimes, the police have come up with this bizarre theory that the bombers just sort of decided to carry each others' credit cards!

I would say that this of your conclusion is rather spurious than obvious. Prove it!

isarahim
16-07-2005, 03:47 PM
The death tolls at these sites have minimal Jewish casualties. The victims are often not even Israelis, let alone important Israelis.

I think one statistically valid reason is that there are simply not many Jews or Israelis around. If you look into the 11/9 list, I read in one comment that the number of Jewish casualites were significantly larger than what would be justified by demographics in the NYC region. Same goes for Muslims in fact.


Why are suicide bombings publicized before any proof is brought by investigation?

For the same reasons as earthquakes, tsunamis, air bombings etc are publicised before any proof is brought by investigation.


I believe to find logic, you have to see the suicide bomber as a fabrication of the Zionists for their own purposes.

I think to even attempt to blame this on someone else is a very weak excuse for Muslims. If you believe it, fine with you, it wont lead you anywhere.


To demonize Islam. To make Muslims look stupid, fanatical, and murderous. To create worldwide terrorism that they can claim has nothing to do with Israel, but everything to do with Islam. To attack those who think themselves to be allies, but are not, e.g. America, Spain, Britain.
To shift the blame for any bombing Zionists perpetrate onto the Muslims, simply by calling it a suicide bombing. To control public opinion in favor of Israel as the most grieved victim of terrorism. To justify apartheid in Israel.
To justify war in the Middle East with the spoils of war accruing to themselves, while the costs are borne by their “allies”.

There's not a single piece of valid proof or logic for that matter in this. This is just another of thousands of conspiration theories along the same lines. Everyone falls flat even at cursory study.

It suffices to look at your first line: "To demonise Islam".

How exactly do you think this will 'demonise Islam'? It is blatantly clear that these acts have nothing to do with Islam altogether. If Muslim leaders stood and stated that they condoned the acts, then it would perhaps shine very badly on Islam, but they're not. In fact, and fortunately, they're doing exactly the opposite:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4684885.stm


So it's not the fundamentalism, it's not the occupation, it's not suicide, it's not a guerilla tactic, it's the timeless strategy of the Zionist working to advantage themselves.

I don't think it's particularly responsible if Muslims would take the easy way out and blame it on the Jews.

If anything would 'demonise Islam' it would be exactly that!

I think your statements are utterly condemnable in addition to being totally baseless, spurious and inflammatory.

I also take specific note that you are writing in US English.

isarahim
16-07-2005, 04:09 PM
It is well known that the Jews consider Muslims their enemy

This is not true. In fact, during most times in history since Prophet Muhammed, Jews have coexisted peacefully and friendly with Muslims, and even intermarried at times.

Christians, however, have slaughtered Jews and treated them as second rate citizens throughout the dark ages and more or less up to the 20th century.

It is only in recent years, since the creation of Israel, that Jews and Muslims have become enemies.


A comparison can be made of WW I and II in which Europe was invited to self-destruct. Where were the Jews in those fights that benefited them beyond all others? Why is it that the Jewish banking interests fund both sides of a conflict? They come out of these terrible wars richer and more powerful while the power of the world was diminished.

It's very ironic, but telling for the level of logic and facts you apply, that you bring up WW II, where six million Jews lost their lives under Hitler and another 12 million Jews or so we killed by Stalin. In other words, more than 50% of the total Jewish world population.

That a few rich Jewish families, principally based out of neutral Switzerland, benefited, does not even give microscopic support for your allegations. Non-Jew Swiss families benefited likewise. The Swedish, e.g. Bofors, benefited as well and they are not Jews.


Do not forget, Britain and the US are still at war. So were you really surprised about the bombings? Do you mean it is ok to bomb Basra and not King's Cross? Or the civilians killed in Fallujah unworthy of mention compared to the London bombings?

I would say it's quite different yes. The US and Britain do not specifically target civilians, even though one might be for or against their doings in Iraq, one has to give them credit when credit is due.

The London bombings, on the other hand, specifically target civilians.

The Iraq war was wrong, no question, Bush's folly, but their mode of engagement, I would say, is still commendable, despite a few redneck marines and pervert prison guards, it's generally commendable.


I personally do not condone or support these acts, morally it is wrong but... you reap what you sow.

Really? In three postings you're doing everything you can to defend them, and then you say you do not condone them.

TheEdge
17-07-2005, 03:31 AM
I would say that this of your conclusion is rather spurious than obvious. Prove it!

A consultancy agency, Visor Consultants, with government and police connections was running an exercise for an unnamed company that revolved around the London Underground being bombed at the exact same times and locations as happened in real life on the morning of July 7th.

ITV News interview with Peter Power, Managing Director of Visor Consultants, and a former Scotland Yard official who worked at one time with the Anti Terrorist Branch. (http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/london.terror.games.wmv)

We know the terror drill was real. We know they were running the drill at the exact same stations the bombings actually occurred.

We know that the accused bombers don't fit the profile of men ready to die for Allah. (http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_news&Number=293781957&page=0&view=&sb=&o=&vc=1&t=-1#Post293781957) Indeed, it is reported that some of them were not particularly religious. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4678837.stm)

Yet we are faced with the strange claim that these men, one of whom had a new family, and another whose wife was pregnant, carried bombs set on timers and stood there waiting for them explode.

This makes sense ONLY if they thought they were carrying fake bombs as part of a terror drill. This also explains the nervousness of the man on the bus who had probably just heard of the real explosions and was starting to suspect that the fake bomb he was carrying might not be fake after all.

If these men thought they were committing suicide, why did they buy RETURN TICKETS ON THE TRAIN? Why did they pay for "pay and display" tickets for their cars at the parking area?

HOW TO SET UP A PATSY??

"Hey you, Muslim person. Wanna make a hundred pounds? You could use that kind of dough, with a new kid and all. We're running a terror drill, and all you gotta do is take this here harmless backpack with a fake bomb inside to work with you tomorrow, just to see if the subway guards catch you or not. Mum's the word, this is national security and all; you can't tell anyone!"

TheEdge
17-07-2005, 04:44 AM
For the same reasons as earthquakes, tsunamis, air bombings etc are publicised before any proof is brought by investigation.
Really, you could come up with a better representation. Do you really need proof that you're in an earthquake, tsunami or an air bombing?


How exactly do you think this will 'demonise Islam'?
You obviously have not been detained for questionings by the US or the Australian Immigration because you just might have a name similar to a terrorist. eg. a Bin maybe? Or heard the abuse targetted at worshippers leaving mosques. Or seen the Racist graffitis.
Muslim fears of revenge attacks grow (http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article299461.ece)


I would say it's quite different yes. The US and Britain do not specifically target civilians, even though one might be for or against their doings in Iraq, one has to give them credit when credit is due.
The London bombings, on the other hand, specifically target civilians.
The Iraq war was wrong, no question, Bush's folly, but their mode of engagement, I would say, is still commendable, despite a few redneck marines and pervert prison guards, it's generally commendable.

Ok. I guess you're right.:rolleyes:
Napalm in Falluja (http://www.dissidentvoice.org/June05/Whitney0627.htm)
US caused more deaths in Iraq than Saddam, says anti-war tribunal (http://infowars.net/Pages/June05/260605Iraq.html)


It's very ironic, but telling for the level of logic and facts you apply, that you bring up WW II, where six million Jews lost their lives under Hitler and another 12 million Jews or so we killed by Stalin. In other words, more than 50% of the total Jewish world population.
Speaking about the Holocaust of the World War II, the latest research that has been conducted by scientists of different countries regarding the mass genocide against Jews and the real number of victims, testifies to multiple and unjustified exaggerations and distortions of the real events. Revisionists calculate that there were some 150-thousand Jews who died in Auschwitz, and no one was killed with gas there. The major reason of such a huge death rate was typhus epidemics.


I also take specific note that you are writing in US English
Not everyone has the ability to converse perfectly in the Queen's English or has a house in London or able to sip a glass of red while reading this. ;)

orchipalar
17-07-2005, 10:47 AM
Mohammad Sidique Khan: Aged 30, from Beeston, Leeds, recently moved to Dewsbury, married with baby. ID found at Edgware Road blast site.
Hasib Mir Hussain (confirmed): Aged 18, lived Holbeck, Leeds. Reported missing on day of bombings. Said to have turned very religious two years ago. ID found in No 30 bus.
Shehzad Tanweer (confirmed; above): Aged 22, born Bradford, lived Beeston, Leeds. Studied religion in Pakistan. Forensic evidence linking him to Aldgate blast.
Lindsey Germaine: Jamaican-born man who lived in Buckinghamshire.
Orchi
Check BBC
TQ

TQ dear Ski:) for undates on the London bombings...

As far as Orchi is concerned...most likely those freaking cowardy bastards were possessed by the demons....to have carried out such inhumane acts of terrorism to harmless civilians...

Should they really be the ones...err...they are all rotting in hell now...til eternity...:rolleyes:

isarahim
17-07-2005, 12:26 PM
Really, you could come up with a better representation. Do you really need proof that you're in an earthquake, tsunami or an air bombing?

It was a rhetoric question. It was just as obvious that the bombs were suicide bombs. The four were even pictured together carrying the same type of backpacks by CCTV before the event. The British police force is a very trustworthy and professional organisations. Despite the evidence, they waited several days before their forensics confirmed suicide bombings.

I rather trust their statement than various conspirationists who makes use of a tragic event like this to forward their weird theories.


You obviously have not been detained for questionings by the US or the Australian Immigration because you just might have a name similar to a terrorist. eg. a Bin maybe? Or heard the abuse targetted at worshippers leaving mosques. Or seen the Racist graffitis.

I have.

But it's equally clear to me that, Islam is not being demonised.

That a few villains, like National Front and the like, make use of this event to promulgate their racist agendas, is just as bad as some so called Muslims making use of it to promulgate conspirationist ideas.


Revisionists calculate that there were some 150-thousand Jews who died in Auschwitz, and no one was killed with gas there. The major reason of such a huge death rate was typhus epidemics.

What revisionists? This is exactly the same argument that has been used for 30 years or so by the neo-nazis, i.e. the cousins of the NF. I wouldn't put much trust in it, less so use arguments from such a suspect source.

I use Malaysian English.

As for your argumentum ad personam, I'll leave them for what they are.

Joe Gomez
17-07-2005, 12:45 PM
.....................................
HOW TO SET UP A PATSY??

"Hey you, Muslim person. Wanna make a hundred pounds? You could use that kind of dough, with a new kid and all. We're running a terror drill, and all you gotta do is take this here harmless backpack with a fake bomb inside to work with you tomorrow, just to see if the subway guards catch you or not. Mum's the word, this is national security and all; you can't tell anyone!"Hi there Old Chap .... what in heaven's name is a "patsy" ? Gua blur lor.

Joe Gomez
17-07-2005, 06:58 PM
TheEdge, can u find it in your heart to agree that any form of atrocity committed against any innocent / uninvolved human being for any avowed reason is wrong.
I think isarahim's message is plain and simple that.

Still waiting 4 u to throw some light on PATSY ......

bobkee
17-07-2005, 07:32 PM
Eighteen Hundred and Ninety One
American Railroad had just begun
American Railroad had just begun
Working on the railroad

Chorus

PATSY Ory Ory Ory Ay (3x)
Working on the railroad

.. all together now!

Vixey
17-07-2005, 08:12 PM
Edge...what are you trying to say? Someone set these men up? If yes, who?

Vixey
17-07-2005, 08:13 PM
TheEdge, can u find it in your heart to agree that any form of atrocity committed against any innocent / uninvolved human being for any avowed reason is wrong.
I think isarahim's message is plain and simple that.

Still waiting 4 u to throw some light on PATSY ......

Patsy is the name of the goat that's being scaped.


:D

aroki
17-07-2005, 08:56 PM
If these men thought they were committing suicide, why did they buy RETURN TICKETS ON THE TRAIN? Why did they pay for "pay and display" tickets for their cars at the parking area?
Did they pay cash or credit card? well you seem to hv answers..maybe the conspirationists wil hv an answer...maybe the return ticket was cheaper.:eek:

BTW since 9/11, those in charge of security at airports etc have known to pick on those that buy one way ticket since this is what happen in 9/11. I used tell my frineds in usa that this crazy ppl will figure this out and buy return tickets so that everything looks normal.Guess maybe this terrorist decided to that.

I guess some can't accept the fact and come up with theories that can't hold water.

Lets no start another thread on this terrorist issue.. lets not have a 'thread diarrhoea' and start a thousand thread on every thing ;) Joe I get it now.

dragonfly
17-07-2005, 10:01 PM
In the face of such overwhelming evidence provided by the London police.....and yet we have some zealots, coming out with their own shallow theories of events leading to the bombings....to deny involvement of the suspects.....is a reflection of more terror to come.

TheEdge
18-07-2005, 10:02 AM
TheEdge, can u find it in your heart to agree that any form of atrocity committed against any innocent / uninvolved human being for any avowed reason is wrong.
I think isarahim's message is plain and simple that.

Still waiting 4 u to throw some light on PATSY ......

Yeah I do agree with some of the points that isarahim has made and he has made some clever and interesting arguments. The average Brits are more intelligent and rational compared to the average Americans and events like these would be exposed sooner or later. But that is all there is. An argument which can be discussed among mature adults. I bear no malice or ill will towards him and I'm glad that he survived the bombings.

I was in fact in London on the day of the bombings, albeit I was still asleep as it was still too early in the morning. (not a morning person).
On the day itself, the tube was closed, most of the shops was closed (M&S closed at 3pm though) and the buses weren't running but surprisingly, Ladbrokes & William Hill's was opened. :D

The next few days, everything was normal except for the delays and rerouting of the Tubes although the police presence was heavier than normal. They did in fact organised some reception in Buckingham Palace for the WWII veterans a couple of days later.

Definition: easy victim
Synonyms: dupe, easy mark, fool, lamb to the slaughter, mark, patsy, sitting duck, stooge, sucker, trusting soul, victim, whipping boy


PATSY Ory Ory Ory Ay (3x)
Working on the railroad

LOL :D :D :D
You guys are killing me.


what are you trying to say? Someone set these men up? If yes, who?
Yeah Vix, there is always two sides to a coin. Don't you think it's to easy to blame it on suicide bombings. What if those four men were really set up?

Their devices were in large rucksacks which could be easily dumped instead of being strapped to their bodies. They carried wallets containing their driving licences, bank cards and other personal items. Suicide bombers normally strip themselves of identifying material. None of the men was heard to cry "Allah Akbar!" - "God is great" - usually screamed by suicide bombers as they detonate their bomb. Similar terror attacks against public transport in Madrid last year were carried out by recruits who had time to escape and planned to strike again.

Bomber Hasib Hussain detonated his device at the rear of the top deck of a No 30 bus, not in the middle of the bottom deck where most damage would be caused. Additionally, two of the bombers had strong personal reasons for staying alive.
Jermaine Lindsay's partner Samantha Lewthwaite, 22, mother of his one-year-old son, is expecting her second baby within days. Mohammed Sidique Khan's wife Hasina, mum of a 14-month-old daughter, is also pregnant.

... Or were these Muslim men hired by the terror drill to play terrorists, not knowing that the bombs they carried were not fake ones for the drill (http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/london_exercise_video.html) , but real?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/05/uk_number_30_bus_bomb_aftermath/img/3.jpg

Note the van parked in front that says "Kingstar"? Guess what they do? Link to Kingstar's webpage (http://www.kingstar.co.uk/demoli.htm)

Joe Gomez
18-07-2005, 10:13 AM
Edge...what are you trying to say? Someone set these men up? If yes, who?Ohhhhhh now I c.
TheEdge thinks someone set up Patsy to be scaped ( nandri Vixey 4 explaining meaning ).
TheEdge do you realise that there are less tedious and less error prone ways of accomplishing the same result i.e. "terror drill".
Chew on this theory TheEdge ........
............... I think the Brit bas****s ( May the heavens piss in Blair's glass of red !! ) in collusion with the Evil Americans ( May Bush's bush be singed !!) doctored the recorded images from the CCTV. They have superimposed an old picture of Omar Sharif. One with moustche. Another without. One with sideburns another without. That's 4 faces which the Brit bas***** want us to believe are the perpetrators. In actual fact the faces of Omar were superimposed on the faces of Caucasian males who are the real perpetrators of this crime. The Brits ( May they rot in Hell without a single glass of red ) did this to tarnish the good name of all who value human lives .... like Saddam, Al-Qaidah, The IRA, Ben Ladin, Hitler, The Crusaders, The Talibans .......
Hey, TheEdge, maybe you shd run with that theory lor.
A bit easier to defend till the cows come home.
Do you realise that the people reading this forum have a thing called a brain ?
That they are a tad more intelligent then the bomber that you paint as poor Patsy ..... U know the bloke u say that fell for the crap story of "terror drill".

TheEdge
18-07-2005, 10:16 AM
In the face of such overwhelming evidence provided by the London police.....and yet we have some zealots, coming out with their own shallow theories of events leading to the bombings....to deny involvement of the suspects.....is a reflection of more terror to come.
Oh... you're still here.. :o
Unlike Isa, you my friend, can't even come up with a valid argument or theory to counter your accusations of shallowness, zealotry or in your words a****** to even join in this expostulation. See ya. :cool:

Joe Gomez
18-07-2005, 10:21 AM
Would anyone in their right mind plan to demolish/detonate and have their intention emblazoned on the side of their van ?
Theory # 1......
This is a doctored image with the picture of the van superimposd. :rolleyes:

Theory # 2 ....
TheEdge, I strongly suspect that you yourself are part of the broad game plan by Al-Qaidah to hit at anyone getting too close to the source of the perpetrators.
We really hv no idea who you are rite ? :D :D
Not bad ah ???? I oso good with theories lor.

Wld like to invite more theories.

Firefly
18-07-2005, 10:28 AM
So what if these 4 men were really setup? If they are really setup, who set them up? :eek:

Joe Gomez
18-07-2005, 10:30 AM
...........
Christians, however, have slaughtered Jews and treated them as second rate citizens throughout the dark ages and more or less up to the 20th century.........................True ..... very true.
Hitler & the better part of Nazi Germany were not Hindus, as I recall. :D :D :D :D

Joe Gomez
18-07-2005, 10:42 AM
...........................
Their devices were in large rucksacks which could be easily dumped instead of being strapped to their bodies. They carried wallets containing their driving licences, bank cards and other personal items. Suicide bombers normally strip themselves of identifying material.
Suicide bombers "normally strip themselves" of identification papers...... U r rite ....
But then we are not talking of normal suicide bombers .....
They are the guys stupid enough to fall for a ruse like "terror drill". You personally do not have much faith in these chappies' intelligence remeber ?

None of the men was heard to cry "Allah Akbar!" - "God is great" - usually screamed by suicide bombers as they detonate their bomb..............So he whispered it silently ..... SOOOOO ?
Or his timing was bad ... he only shouted at the point when the bomb went off ......
Result >>>> Hearty shout bombed out ...... SOOOOOOO ?????
Any more theories ???????
Crap theory expressed eloquently remains crap......
This one not theory lor ..... this one fact ......

Unlike the "chaps" who fell for the "terror drill" ruse, I honestly think the forumers here do not have vacuous spaces between their ears.

As I sip this glass of red I toast you and wish you a long life ..... stay away from detonators & plastics ( u know, the explosive ones )

TheEdge
18-07-2005, 10:53 AM
Would anyone in their right mind plan to demolish/detonate and have their intention emblazoned on the side of their van ?
Theory # 1......
This is a doctored image with the picture of the van superimposd. :rolleyes:

Yes, I see where you're coming from. This may have been a doctored image. It is illogical right? But would anyone with a baby on the way commit suicide? Suicide is absolutely unnatural; it is an aberration in creatures whose instinct is to survive. It is not easy to override that instinct. It is so contrary to instinct that stories of suicide for a cause are few and always make us marvel: the samurai who falls on his sword as penance for a loss in battle, the kamikaze pilot who knows he goes to certain death, the Roman who prefers death by his own hand to the humiliation of being killed by his enemies. There have been Christian and Buddhist martyrs who use suicide as a demonstration of belief and/or protest. All these are distinct from the unwilling martyrdom of dying in conflict.

The fact that suicide for a cause is so exceptional in our history is one thing that makes me question the burgeoning phenomenon of the “Muslim suicide bomber”. The Japanese Kamikaze pilot is understandable as a cultural phenomenon with roots in the concept of the samurai, but again, this is so exceptional that we look in awe on those whose sense of duty is so strong. Can we find a similar basis for this peculiar type of martyrdom among Muslims in these last fourteen centuries, keeping in mind the difference between dying in battle and an intentional suicide? I don't think so.

Are there any other instances of intentional martyrdom in all our history that have been met with such cruel contempt and mockery as the “Muslim suicide bomber” of our time? Doesn’t such a reaction by itself make this case extraordinary?

That suicide for a cause is anti-instinctual, exceedingly rare, and when found, traceable to its cultural roots, makes me very skeptical that hundreds, perhaps thousands, of such cases would spring forth quite suddenly in a people, no matter what the provocation.

As for the Palestinian family whose son or daughter is said to have been a suicide bomber, are they not very much like families everywhere whose children die in battle? They desperately want to see that the death meant something, had some good in it. That is not hard to understand. Also familiar to all are the leaders who praise the dead, speaking of their heroism. It keeps up morale.

Neither of us has access to evidence for or against suicide bombings and cannot hope to prove anything one way or the other. What I have tried to do is look at it historically, psychologically, and rationally. I stand by my assertion that the “Muslim suicide bomber” is a myth. I am trying to explain it, AND it needs a lot of explaining.


Theory # 2 ....
TheEdge, I strongly suspect that you yourself are part of the broad game plan by Al-Qaidah to hit at anyone getting too close to the source of the perpetrators. We really hv no idea who you are rite ? :D :D Not bad ah ???? I oso good with theories lor.

Wld like to invite more theories.

Yeah, you may or may not have met me when Lord organized our failed attempt at setting up a USJ.COM Football Team in USJ17 a couple of years back. You probably weren't around back then. I am a completely sane and normal Malaysian which would probably be the last person the so-called Al-Qaeda could ever hope to recruit. BTW, have you ever heard of Al-Qaeda before 9/11??? ;)

TheEdge
18-07-2005, 11:02 AM
Er... BTW, if anyone here still want to set up another USJ.COM FC. I'm still game. May have lost the legs but still got the heart though. :D :D :D

p/s: you should see Patrick or some of the other guys play. Makes me look like Eric Cantona. :p

Joe Gomez
18-07-2005, 11:37 AM
Yes, I see where you're coming from. This may have been a doctored image.You missed my point, TheEdge. I hv no idea whether or not the presence of the van makes the PATSY theory valid or my conunter-theory of doctoring makes it invalid. My point is that any and everything can be "spun" ......You, my friend are doing a great job of it here. :D :D :D
But would anyone with a baby on the way commit suicide? Suicide is absolutely unnatural; it is an aberration in creatures whose instinct is to survive. It is not easy to override that instinct.Wld anyone with his marriage around the corner commit suicide ?
Wld anyone with a dependent commit suicide ?
Wld anyone kill their own child ( the child for whom they postponed their earlier attempt at suicide cos the child was still in the mother's womb ) & then commit suicide ?
Answer Yes, Yes, Yes ........ SOOOOOOOO ?
...........There have been Christian and Buddhist martyrs who use suicide as a demonstration of belief and/or protest. All these are distinct from the unwilling martyrdom of dying in conflict.Will it help if I reminded u that the same Christians & Budhists wld have used bombs and wld hv gladly given up their lives ..... if bombs masa itu ada lah .... Hakikat nya .... bomb tada sooooo Christian / Buddhist suicide bomber tada lor. Aiyaaaaaah :D Again u miss my point. Any reason does not make a heinous crime less heinous.
Can we find a similar basis for this peculiar type of martyrdom among Muslims in these last fourteen centuries, keeping in mind the difference between dying in battle and an intentional suicide? I don't think so.Anybody wanting to commit suicide is free to do so .... remember I said free not necessarily legally rite. Let them go ahead ..... let them kill themselves. Why do they take another's ( innocent ) life with them ..... where do u draw the line for murder, TheEdge. Cut the rationalising spin and answer me directly .... What do yo call the taking of the life of an innocent ???? Do u call it Sacrifice For a Greater good ??????
Are there any other instances of intentional martyrdom in all our history .....[?QUOTE]LTTE. SOOOOOOOOO ? LTTE calls their briade members martyrs as well u know.
[QUOTE=TheEdge]that have been met with such cruel contempt and mockery as the “Muslim suicide bomber” of our time? Doesn’t such a reaction by itself make this case extraordinary?On this forum, did u see mockery. Cruel contempt OH YES ........ I PERSONALLY WLD LIKE TO HEAP IT ON COWARDS WHO KILL INNOCENTS.


That suicide for a cause is anti-instinctual, exceedingly rare, and when found, traceable to its cultural roots, makes me very skeptical that hundreds, perhaps thousands, of such cases would spring forth quite suddenly in a people, no matter what the provocation. Missed the point again .... Suicide >>>> GO Ahead, help yourself.
Murder >>>> Hold on a minute bro. :mad: :mad:

Yeah, you may or may not have met me when Lord organized our failed attempt at setting up a USJ.COM Football Team in USJ17 a couple of years back. You probably weren't around back then. I am a completely sane and normal Malaysian which would probably be the last person the so-called Al-Qaeda could ever hope to recruit. BTW, have you ever heard of Al-Qaeda before 9/11??? ;)I take your word for it, TheEdge. See I m far better than the Brits - Those inhuman Kuai Loh, who deserve to die .... nevermind if he had no hand in all the atrocities heaped on Muslims ... Nevermind if he and his wife were expecting a baby. Lets shed a tear only if it was a Muslim baby. Hey man only the Muslim world need survive ..... & only the Muslim world deserves justice. Now that is scorn .... just in case you miss it. I have this scorn for anyone ( I repeat anyone ) that visits such misery on innocents. The perpetrators may be Christians, Hindus, Budhists, Inner Mongolians, Zoroastrians, & why the heck shd Muslims be spared ?
What in heaven's name make some Muslims hold opinions like yours (not all .... Thank God for level headed people like isarahim & mack ) where they think they are the law and justice on to themselves.
Who gave you that rite ????
CHEERS, man ..... my glass of red runneth over with love & respect for suicide bombers who bomb the beejeezus out of themselves and leave the rest of the world alone. I drink to them.

Joe Gomez
18-07-2005, 11:38 AM
Er... BTW, if anyone here still want to set up another USJ.COM FC. I'm still game. May have lost the legs but still got the heart though. :D :D :D
p/s: you should see Patrick or some of the other guys play. Makes me look like Eric Cantona. :pHey good idea. I am past my football age.
But start another thread and gauge interest, TheEdge.
On my part I will pray that the suicide bombers stay away from the football field. Who knows who has a baby on the way ah ?????? :D :D :D

Joe Gomez
18-07-2005, 12:11 PM
............ BTW, have you ever heard of Al-Qaeda before 9/11??? ;)Did u hear of the LTTE b4 they were denied their birthright in their own motherland ???? :cool: :cool: SOOOOOOOOOOOO ???

aroki
18-07-2005, 02:05 PM
There have been Christian and Buddhist martyrs who use suicide as a demonstration of belief and/or protest. All these are distinct from the unwilling martyrdom of dying in conflict.
guys enlighten me here. Have there been Christian/Buddhist suicide bombers before? Do this religions preach jihad to their ppl? Why are there so many Muslim suicide bombers...check the time line..has this been an issue after the Islam world landscape got changed due to the Iranian revolution?Palestinian issue has been around for long time, were there suicide bombers in the 60s and early 70s( I was too young to understand/know). Jihad..the wrong concept of Jihad is preached in Islam by certain sectors of the Muslim world...why has no one stopped it.Where is the fatwas?

I've read the drill theory..thanks theedge..but do they really need four Muslim terrorist to have a drill and that from Leeds? Couldn't they have found four caucasians or four muslims in London for that drill? doesn't make sense to me.The latest news on star claims that they thought they would plant the bombs and walk away. That is possible but the organiser screwed them big time as the bombs took their lifes as well.

aroki
18-07-2005, 02:25 PM
Interesting article in Brand Malaysian (http://www.brandmalaysia.com/movabletype/archives/2005/07/guest_editorial.html#more)

kwchang
19-07-2005, 12:06 AM
Whaaat laaahhh.... Joe, you starving for bananananas??
Aieeyahhh, why go bashing TheEdge. He has the right to his theories. Just becoz it moves away from the televised "facts" you think he is trying to divert people from the truth, whatever that may be?

Did some of you forget that I posted the first "think sideways" bit when this thread started? I have no grounds to say that really, but like TheEdge, I do leave a side-door open for other possibilities. This is called having a wider perspective, maybe simply looking at the other side of the coin? Hey, it may sound silly to postulate alternative theories but I betcha in no time someone is going to print a best seller offering a conspiracy theory.

Did you watch the movie "Six Days of the Condor"? Robert Redford was the main role. I tell you, after I watched that (I was in my teens then, figure out how long it was then!) I realised that things are not simply black and white. No, that movie was not truth, just fiction. But I do take things with a pinch of salt after that.

orchipalar
19-07-2005, 12:33 AM
Err...nobody is denying anyone's rights to his or her opinions....

Ahem...so long as... NOT every Jews are being branded as terrorists...n NOT every Muslims are being paraded as terrorist suicide bombers...

Terrorism is senseless...it doesn't conform to any logic...n whatever cause it may claim to represent...MUST be totally dismissed...

Terrorists are demons...n succumbing to the evil ONLY... :rolleyes:

Joe Gomez
19-07-2005, 12:44 AM
Bashing TheEdge ? Not guilty.
Questioning his right to express an opinion ? Not guilty.

Poking holes in his opinions with my own opinions ? Guilty as charged.
:D :D :D

Theories expounded merely to suit one's stand, ring hollow.
So I did expound several counter ( & equally empty ) theories to illustrate that point ............ including the obviously ridiculous one abt him being an Al-Qaidah member.
I wonder how this compares to TheEdge's barbed comment abt isarahim's preference for red. I did take umbrage to that comment ( tho it was not directed at me ). That holier than thou tone & the personal barb directed at another forumer shd never be allowed. It was too grating ... ;) ;)

Hopefully TheEdge will acknowledge that all blood spilt & lives lost in the manner it was in the Underground, is unconscionable. It does not matter whether it is Caucasian blood or Muslim one.

As far as opinions go, eloquence is no substitute for substance.
Well I do have a right to that opinion, chang.

Cheers, chang.
I wld like to raise a pitcher of red toasting your steadfast intention to keep this forum quarrel-free.

Joe Gomez
19-07-2005, 12:45 AM
Err...nobody is denying anyone's rights to his or her opinions....

Ahem...so long as... NOT every Jews are being branded as terrorists...n NOT every Muslims are being paraded as terrorist suicide bombers...

Terrorism is senseless...it doesn't conform to any logic...n whatever cause it may claim to represent...MUST be totally dismissed...

Terrorists are demons...n succumbing to the evil ONLY... :rolleyes:AMIN to that, orchi.
And may I add that any amount of rationalisation will not make it right.

Joe Gomez
19-07-2005, 12:49 AM
.....................
Not everyone has the ability to converse perfectly in the Queen's English or has a house in London or able to sip a glass of red while reading this. ;)chang, this is a personal attack on isarahim. That is what I meant in my earlier posting. I dont think TheEdge needed to resort to this.

kwchang
19-07-2005, 01:05 AM
I'm sorry that I was less sensitive to the subtle pokes. Too much to read at one time, so I skimmed..
I'll let TheEdge apologise on that.
Let us get on with life folks.

Joe Gomez
19-07-2005, 09:12 AM
Cheers, chang.
TheEdge, take it easy, mate.

Joe Gomez
19-07-2005, 09:25 AM
aroki, just missed getting a banananananananana .....................
Sheeeeeesh look at that spelling ............ what pc had was contagious lah .................... chang got it ..... now me got it ......

VeeJay
19-07-2005, 10:23 AM
One of my best friends is an Arab girl. After we finished our studies together, she left for the US to join some other members of her family in Texas. Needless to say, after 9/11, people who were once their friends and neighbours soon turned a cold shoulder. Even till now, she has to put up with a lot of comments and snide remarks.

I really pray that when the shock has subsided, more innocents lives are not lost through anger and hate.
Vixey, I don’t think anger and hate would subside that easily…because people there (US) have to face it daily….they have lost their privacy, they have lost their loved ones, the feeling of someone broke into your house and killed all your innocent family members (how would one feel), etc etc.

As I mentioned, their daily life has changed after the 9/11, how could you go around with your daily life not thinking about it? Even a foreigner would sense it once you step into the country, the local system and privacy is less eminent now.

They are so afraid of the vulnerability of a free society nation…everything was so open and transparent before 9/11 nowadays, you have to go thru thru so much of checking after checking s and red tape to get a process done, similar to instance of visa cases, many had complaint its taking way too long and some do not get it, although its genuine request to enter the States…

Mason
19-07-2005, 03:32 PM
Hi guys/gals...

Interesting views...but waste of time.

Put religion aside. Now talk and express your views as a fellow human.

If even today we're talking about Ayah Pin to be detained under ISA for visiting Buddhist and Hindu temples......then I think terrorist will exist and should be linked to religion. There shall be no end to their self inflicted problems. Full stop. Lets not continue this discussion.

TheEdge
20-07-2005, 07:57 AM
TheEdge, take it easy, mate.

Yeah dude, I am taking it easy. Your heckling is perfectly normal in a forum :D :D
BTW, isarahim is intelligent enough to make his comments himself without having you for his "positive reinforcements". ;)



Poking holes in his opinions with my own opinions ? Guilty as charged.

Anyway, you didn't really do anything wrong coz' you're were only heckling, err.. poking holes?? And it's perfectly normal to have hecklers in a forum.




That holier than thou tone & the personal barb directed at another forumer shd never be allowed. It was too grating ...

:confused: Are you for real?? :D :D

And you mean...


The Edge, don't talk thru your a**.



I also take specific note that you are writing in US English.

And you call this pleasing? Your dogmatist approach towards personal barbs is very much amusing.

Err.. and that is in no way whatsoever did I ever, ever meant to call you a dog. And if your personal sensile self feels that way, I apologize profusely from the bottom of my heart. I seek pennance from you ooo Mighty Joe ......

As for the rest of the forumers, I am truly sorry for keeping this thread running longer than it should have been but the comments on the previous postings were too juicy to pass up.

Before I say goodbye, here's a couple of sites to whet your appetites in your search for the truth.
Suicide theory thrown in doubt (http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,15961272%255E663,00.html)
UK bombers 'tricked' - All four paid for return train tickets (http://canberra.yourguide.com.au/detail.asp?story_id=409269&class=news)

isarahim
20-07-2005, 09:21 AM
I also take specific note that you are writing in US English.

I said this since several of TheEdge's articles appeared to be copied and pasted more or less wholesale from www.libertyforum.org which is a US forum for those who enjoy flame wars on international affairs and wank to conspiration theories.

TheEdge
21-07-2005, 01:23 PM
I said this since several of TheEdge's articles appeared to be copied and pasted more or less wholesale from www.libertyforum.org which is a US forum for those who enjoy flame wars on international affairs and wank to conspiration theories.


Of which I do subscribe to and if anyone would like to post their views there, they are very much more than welcome.
Home Page (http://www.libertyforum.org/)
I very much doubt that it's sole purpose is flaming and wanking as you say.
Anyway, I suggest we leave politics out of this forum or post it in warung politik and limit our postings here to subjects that are very much closer to where we live. (eg. Subang Jaya/USJ)

Argumentum Ad Personam??? Aah, maybe Mr. Gomez could explain this better. :D

rUmyHoneyBunny
21-07-2005, 03:12 PM
The [bleep] truth is, these attacks are originated by some evil minds, mentally sick and natural-born-terrorist individuals. There's no question of them doing these attacks for the sake of the religion! As we all know, no religions teach us to do bad things!
Speaking about Pakistan, the TIME mag (july issue) reported that Pakistan is the number one corrupt nation in the world!

Joe Gomez
21-07-2005, 09:11 PM
..............................
:confused: Are you for real?? :DCan you recognise reality even if it hit you in your face .... ?
Your dogmatist approach towards personal barbs is very much amusing.
Err.. and that is in no way whatsoever did I ever, ever meant to call you a dog. You seem to ratify an insane act by these morons ( the suicide bombers ) with halfbaked reasoning. Cross my heart and hope to heckle .... I in no way implied that you are a rat ;) ;) nor a baker. :D :D

As for the rest of the forumers, I am truly sorry for keeping this thread running longer than it should have been but the comments on the previous postings were too juicy to pass up.Good speech .... ;) :cool:
Before I say goodbye,.........Is that a promise ..... a GOODBYE ?????
I apologize profusely from the bottom of my heart. I seek pennance from you ooo Mighty Joe ......Mighty Joe will forgive your trespasses ( tho a bit more profuse groveling from you might help :D )..... dont worry .... I have seen reasoning much worse than yours. :p Hence you will get your penance .... I dont dispense pennance whatever that might be. The Queen's, the Queen's, Old Chap if you will.
Stick to this forum you will learn a thing or two abt rational thinking.

Joe Gomez
21-07-2005, 09:17 PM
Of which I do subscribe to and if anyone would like to post their views there, they are very much more than welcome.
Home Page (http://www.libertyforum.org/)
I very much doubt that it's sole purpose is flaming and wanking as you say.
Anyway, I suggest we leave politics out of this forum or post it in warung politik and limit our postings here to subjects that are very much closer to where we live. (eg. Subang Jaya/USJ)

Argumentum Ad Personam??? Aah, maybe Mr. Gomez could explain this better. :DYou promised that it was a goodbye .... You disappoint me. ;) ;)
Mr/Ms/Indeterminate TheEdge is touchy touchy touchy ...... when dispensed a taste of his own medicine, I see.
Stick around will you, TheEdge, this forum will smoothen out some of your edges for you.

Timo
21-07-2005, 09:19 PM
Guys, when you get the chance, go and watch the news now. Apparently another bomb scare.

Joe Gomez
21-07-2005, 09:43 PM
Guys, when you get the chance, go and watch the news now. Apparently another bomb scare.Thks Timo, needed that break from the penance dispensing episode ....... :D :D
Yes saw it on BBC. Apparently 3 undeground stations are being evacuated.

dragonfly
21-07-2005, 09:44 PM
3 'incidents' at London underground stations and a bus has been reported. The story is now unfolding in CNN and BBC!

aroki
21-07-2005, 09:46 PM
3 'incidents' at London underground stations and a bus has been reported. The story is now unfolding in CNN and BBC!
Lets see another drill. ;)

dragonfly
21-07-2005, 09:55 PM
Lets see another drill. ;)


.....and a couple of conspiracy theories!

Joe Gomez
22-07-2005, 12:01 AM
Refreshing change. One small step for this Islamic thinktank, a great leap (http://www.prweb.com/releases/2005/7/inktomi259836.php) for Islam.
Lets wish our Muslim brothers & sisters well, for having taken this brave step.

You got your fatwa, aroki. Cheers man.
There is still hope that the human spirit will triumph.

Ski
22-07-2005, 03:56 PM
Even though this is a minor incident compared to the 7/7 one, the four would to be Murderers are on the loose and the ppl are traumatic to travel on public transport.

Anyway I'm glad it failed and that they'll now have a lot more clues, including live suicide bombers to arrest and interrogate. Let's hope they get them.

Nevertheless, the fear they spread will have it's effect in keeping tourists away from UK that will affect their economy on the long run.

USJ 17 Rep
22-07-2005, 07:21 PM
News just in, police shot a man who is a suspected suicide bomber in the tube.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/

Joe Gomez
22-07-2005, 09:04 PM
News just in, police shot a man who is a suspected suicide bomber in the tube.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/Let just hope that it was not mere over-zealousness on the part of the police.

orchipalar
22-07-2005, 09:24 PM
Err...these recent spats of bombing attempts...should seal the hassles...n further aggrevates the uncertainties in the daily lives of Muslims...in England... :o

Err...similar to the 9/11 terror attacks over at States side....Muslims travellers from within and abroad...would be heavily scrutinized... :rolleyes:

dragonfly
22-07-2005, 10:15 PM
Err...orchi, not only muslims will be more scrutinised....but all citizens of muslim countries (including Malaysia which had declared itself an islamic nation). Remember...after sept 11, not only muslims but all citizens of this country wishing to enter US was subjected to extra screening!

aroki
22-07-2005, 10:30 PM
Let just hope that it was not mere over-zealousness on the part of the police.
Joe this is also part of the drill..make it real mah! But can you blame them for being over-zealous...so many drills ;)

USJ 17 Rep
22-07-2005, 11:59 PM
Police have released photos of the would be suicide bombers from yesterday's attacks in London

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/

Joe Gomez
23-07-2005, 09:57 AM
.................... But can you blame them for being over-zealous...;)You are right. When one is faced with unreasonable, outright cruel and, most importantly, cowardly & totally faceless monsters out to wreak havoc, no amount of caution is too much. However, I do think that the checks and balances ( tho not prefect ) tht are in place in countries like the UK, wd see ( or at least attempt to see ) that any signs of over-zealousness are dealt with.
In the meanwhile, because of the havoc these animals have caused, we the innocents are being subjected to body searches, harrowing questions and the like at entry points ......
But stop and think ...... we are entering UK .... We are entering another chap's home. A home that was ravaged by extremist animals that took advantage of the host country's hospitality and welcome. Shdn't we now respect the host's concerns, beliefs, customs, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera ......
To digress a bit, but still to prove a point >>>>> When non-Muslim women are forced to wear a tudung in some Muslim nations, what exactly is operating ? Yes, a respect for the local, customs, traditions, religious concerns, cultural practices, ......What do you think will happen if a foreign woman insisted that her rights are being trampled upon & complained abt the treatment meted out to her by the authorities in that Muslim country ?
That is reality ..............which sometimes is a little difficult to recognise even if it hit us in the face.
Why shdnt it work the other way around ?
Why cant we allow the bluddy English to take care of their own bluddy nation lah for F**K's sake ?

Joe Gomez
23-07-2005, 10:22 AM
Lets see another drill. ;)This guy was asked to wear a huge padded overcoat, in the middle of summer and told that the drill organisers were going to measure the number of glances this guy got from admiring passers-by.
They call that the "gawk-index". :eek:

He was also told not to stop if anyone shouted for him to do so. Cos the drill organisers want to see whether this oversized overcoat wld restrict movement esp on the run.
This is called the "movement fluidity index".

He was also told that Great Britain was trying to measure how many Great Morons will fall for ruses like that.
This is called the "nincompoop stock take" index.

So, aroki, u wanted a drill .... u got a drill ...... :D :D

Joe Gomez
23-07-2005, 11:26 AM
......................
But stop and think ...... we are entering UK .... We are entering another chap's home. A home that was ravaged by extremist animals that took advantage of the host country's hospitality and welcome. Shdn't we now respect the host's concerns, beliefs, customs, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera ............................And while at it why shd the Brits stop and question or body search a guy of the Masai tribe ? Or a guy with a name like Ukumunga Swawitengey. On a scale of 1 to 100 % what are the chances of Mr Uku Swawi carrying a bomb. By the good graces & superior intelligence of my Barisan gormen I carry a "al" between my first and last name ( u know Joe al Gomez ) . Now the Brit wld want to search me cos I cld be related to Harun al Rashid for all he knows .....
I am talking of the straight Brit lah.
The gay Brit might have different reasons ( unapproved by Her Majesty's gormen ) for searching me lor .......... :D :D :D

Joe Gomez
23-07-2005, 02:01 PM
..............However, I do think that the checks and balances ( tho not prefect ) tht are in place in countries like the UK, wd see ( or at least attempt to see ) that any signs of over-zealousness are dealt with................Let's see how our gomen & gowomen will deal with the over-zealousness shown in the Ayah Pin commune torching incident .... just for comparison lah. I dont mean to digress.
The Brits are no saints .... but our gomen & gowomen arent the Holy Family either.
Both gormens will falter in their attempt to bring these faceless, cowardly criminals to justice. There will be problems. But it is a relative thingey ...... Who falters more ? .... betul tak ?

Choon1980
24-07-2005, 08:56 AM
Looks like the guy they shot 3 times IN THE HEAD had nothing to do with the bombings after all.

<a href = "http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/24/international/24london.html?ei=5065&en=b04575c1815189bb&ex=1122782400&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print">link here</a>

aroki
24-07-2005, 04:23 PM
someone forgot to tell the police it was a drill. maybe they should read www.libertyforum.org.Or someone swap the blank bullets with live bullets thus the drill went all wrong. :eek: ;)

dragonfly
24-07-2005, 09:37 PM
Looks like the guy they shot 3 times IN THE HEAD had nothing to do with the bombings after all.

<a href = "http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/24/international/24london.html?ei=5065&en=b04575c1815189bb&ex=1122782400&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print">link here</a>

Such mistakes are to be accepted considering the circumstances. We are not talking about normal times. These are times of heightened security and alert. The enemy the London police are facing are faceless! What do you expect the police to do when a suspect refuses order to stop and instead jumps over ticketing counters and dashes into stationary train. Wearing a thick overcoat doesn't help either. The police had split second decision to make and they decided to shoot to kill. The question is, why did the guy not heed police instructions and decided to run....if he had done nothing wrong? If the guy was indeed a suicide bomber, and in the seconds of police hesitations, managed to get into a coach and detonate. What is the consequences? The public will question the police indecisiveness......questioning why the suspect was not stopped when the police had a chance, and was allowed to blow up the coach.

I don't think the London police force are trigger happy. Malaysian police are more trigger happy than their London counterparts. Remember the cases of courting couples who refused to identify themselves and sped off . Motorists refusing to stop at roadblocks. Men shot and later found to be mistaken identity. I don't blame the Malaysian police because they are working under extreme pressure.....confronting a new breed of criminals who are prepared for anything. Just 2 days ago one of the policeman in a police raiding party was shot at. With overwhelming evidence or when needed to make split second decision, it's justified to shoot and ask questiond later.

orchipalar
24-07-2005, 11:02 PM
confronting a new breed of criminals who are prepared for anything. Just 2 days ago one of the policeman in a police raiding party was shot at. With overwhelming evidence or when needed to make split second decision, it's justified to shoot and ask questiond later.

Err...Orchi has NO qualm with the latest actions by the Police in London...

Why didn't this 'unlucky' chap...just surrender n submit to the Police...when warned to do so...err...for freaking sakes...why did he run...n tried to escape...?!

Err...has he been overstaying?...has he done something else bad?...what was he running from...? :o

So...this should be dismissed as a misfortune...he was at the wrong place...at the wrong time...n for the wrong reason... :o

Ski
25-07-2005, 07:26 AM
Agree With Orchi.
It's the day after the failed attempt of a second wave of bombs on London's public transport and you're a policeman, some fella who looks like he may be of the same ethnicity as the suicide bombers decides to run to avoid police questionning towards a tube station wearing a suspiciously heavy coat. what are you going to do? let him go and potentially blow up a carriage load of people?

It's a tragedy but the police can't be blamed for this. rather than ask questions of them how about ask why the fella was wearing a heavy jacket in the summer and bolted away from the police towards the tube when he knew full well how anxious everyone is right now about this sort of thing.

The police should be given a break - they deserve it after the amount of pressure they've been under recently.