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View Full Version : Appeal to Muslims on Hari Raya Qurban



fRaNkY
20-01-2005, 09:47 AM
Can this year the slaughter of cows/bulls be converted to cash to the Tsunami victims?

Many lives had been lost, humans and non-humans, can we spare some lives?

Instead we donate the same amount/value to the Tsunami victims and donate vegetables and other food stuffs to other less fortunate people in the spirit of Hari Raya Qurban.

May Peace on earth.

Thank you

Joe Gomez
20-01-2005, 09:54 AM
A noble thought ......
However, getting such a task coordinated and having all religious bodies thinking as one is quite a herculean task !!!
Dont forget possible religious connotations, if any.

fRaNkY
20-01-2005, 09:57 AM
At least, if, one muslim did it, one or more live(s) is save.

pcyeoh
20-01-2005, 09:57 AM
I think normal life should go on. We should not change our lifestyle and there should be a cut off point. It was a good move to cancel the New Year countdown was it was a celebration which should be consider as insensitive as it is just a week after the disaster. Any other festival celebrations like Hari Raya Qurban and Chinese New Year or even the Swearing in of President Bush today are part of culture. That is why the Americans are going ahead full swing with their celebration. Many things can run parallel.

JackRyan1975
20-01-2005, 09:59 AM
Good idea. But if i'm a contributor, i'd really love to be in control of where my contributions go. There is a time for contribution to the tsunami victims...and there is a time for religious contribution. I wouldn't like it if everywhere I go, people ask me for tsunami contributions...and be made to look stingy even though much contributions have been made in the past.

Joe Gomez
20-01-2005, 10:07 AM
pc, in the context of the sacrificial connotation in the Hari Raya Qurban observance, it seems so very appropriate, noble and a timely idea.
In any case the crux of it is in what fRaNkY said ...... " At least, if, one muslim did it, one or more live(s) is save."

Bush's inauguration has no such sacrificial siginificance. Similarly neither does CNY, to the best of my kowledge.

Nevertheless, all said and done, there shd be a cut off point ..... I fully agree.

btw, what a great gesture it wld be if the funds that were not used for the New Year celebrations ( countdown ) that were cancelled ( in view of the tsunami disaster ) were routed to the tsunami victms ?

orchipalar
20-01-2005, 10:18 AM
Err...brudder Joe :) is right...it boils down to honouring sacrifices...what a great n noble cause...should more muslims decide in favour... :)

keroncong_asli
20-01-2005, 11:41 AM
Quote Franky :
Can this year the slaughter of cows/bulls be converted to cash to the Tsunami victims?
__________________________________________________ ____

Hari Raya Haji is also known as Hari Raya Korban, the festival of sacrifice. As such, the sacrifice of a cow or goat as food offerings to the poor is done.

This is not a compulsory religious duty for everyone, but considered an obligation for those who can afford it.

As suggested, if slaughtering of cows be converted to cash on Hari Raya Qorban, and if each of the 2,000,000 pilgrimages sacrifice & donates USD 10 (RM 38) which is the cost of one meal in Mecca, may of their Muslim brothers & sisters in Indonesia, Thailand, India, Sri Lanka, Malaysia & others will benefit RM 76,000,000 from the Tsunami fund. Will they donate ?

robertec
20-01-2005, 12:53 PM
What makes you think that after so many weeks, our “brothers” have not already donated their fair share to the Tsunami Fund?

Quote:
“I wouldn't like it if everywhere I go, people ask me for tsunami contributions...and be made to look stingy even though much contributions have been made in the past.”

I totally agree with Jackryan1975 on this.

It is totally uncalled for, to question the generosity of everybody time and time again.

mackzulkifli
20-01-2005, 01:11 PM
While I see Roberts point, I am guessing many will not. Firstly, our lives were never not normal, since even the countdown to New Year was only an annual occurence unless you practice a countdown to a new day every night. If so, then I reckon you may proceed with resuming it.

Secondly, as a unique culture, we do not have to mimic Americans. We are a more sensitive culture and sparks fly easily. Just read some threads in here.

[Quote]Bush's inauguration has no such sacrificial siginificance. Similarly neither does CNY, to the best of my kowledge.

Nevertheless, all said and done, there shd be a cut off point ..... I fully agree.[/Qoute]

To my best knowledge, the cash collection is done and we are consolidating the amount. There is a second phase, where we are not asking for your donations but offering good to sell, donated by fellow residents. The proceeds will be handed over soon, we are waiting to see if Shahrizat, the Red Crescent patron (is patron the right position?) can attend. We are not waiting for the second phase, of which will be handed in later.

Otherwise the plan is to hand it in first and have the USJ residents to give the second cheque in a ceremony, combining both totals,

Robert is asking you to give. He did not say where. Giving does not mean a total cchange in your lifestyle, perhaps it can be as little as 20 bucks a month deducted from your paycheck and donated to the victims.

He might seem to be asking you to give, perhaps he is really asking you to be compassionate.

And please, let us not drag God into this. It was a noble intention. Nawaitu baik.

keroncong_asli
20-01-2005, 02:15 PM
Quote :-
What makes you think that after so many weeks, our “brothers” have not already donated their fair share to the Tsunami Fund?
________________________________________________

Wake up my friend !
Go through NST, Star, Sun, TV3 & NTV7 list of donors and ask whether your 'brothers' had donated 'fairly' to the Tsunami Fund.

Joe Gomez
20-01-2005, 02:34 PM
I thought fRaNkY's post was uncoloured, non-sensationalising, not touching anything even remotely sensitive and BANG we have this kind of exchange !!!!!

In all fairness to fRaNkY, I dont think his intention was to say that our muslim brothers have not done their bit already. It was a simple, practical, timely and very contextual suggestion. Nothing more ...... a suggestion.

I think he says that Qurban being the theme during this holy observance, it (Qurban) can be done in different ways cash, kind, etc and it could be directed towards the tsunami victims.

Why is anyone reading anything more into fRaNkY's post than this noble intention. Am I missing something here ?

How did anyone end up questioning the generosity of our muslim brothers ?
How did THIS thread become like this ?

wildbill
20-01-2005, 02:56 PM
It is just a suggestion by fRaNkY, is up to our muslim friend to decide. Giving is a personal thing. We can't force down others throat on our conviction.

By the way, have to observe the donor list in the STAR? That tell you something, isn't it?

robertec
20-01-2005, 03:30 PM
This all started here.

Quote:
As suggested, if slaughtering of cows be converted to cash on Hari Raya Qorban, and if each of the 2,000,000 pilgrimages sacrifice & donates USD 10 (RM 38) which is the cost of one meal in Mecca, may of their Muslim brothers & sisters in Indonesia, Thailand, India, Sri Lanka, Malaysia & others will benefit RM 76,000,000 from the Tsunami fund. Will they donate ?

This is the type of senseless statement that brings disrepute to this forum.

Quote:
“Wake up my friend !
Go through NST, Star, Sun, TV3 & NTV7 list of donors and ask whether your 'brothers' had donated 'fairly' to the Tsunami Fund.”

This is further confirmation of the insensitivity.

Joe Gomez
20-01-2005, 03:40 PM
This all started here.

Quote:
As suggested, if slaughtering of cows be converted to cash on Hari Raya Qorban, and if each of the 2,000,000 pilgrimages sacrifice & donates USD 10 (RM 38) which is the cost of one meal in Mecca, may of their Muslim brothers & sisters in Indonesia, Thailand, India, Sri Lanka, Malaysia & others will benefit RM 76,000,000 from the Tsunami fund. Will they donate ?

This is the type of senseless statement that brings disrepute to this forum.

...............
Point taken.

keroncong_asli
20-01-2005, 03:43 PM
Quote :
What makes you think that after so many weeks, our “brothers” have not already donated their fair share to the Tsunami Fund?
_______________________________________________

Give credit dues to your 'brother' only when they deserve it.
Do not give false & misleading impression & pretending to be a big brother.

robertec
20-01-2005, 03:53 PM
This is all really about what I said?

Or is it about what was stated?

JackRyan1975
20-01-2005, 04:01 PM
Probably the title of the thread should be changed. I think it sounds a bit patronising when it comes from a non-Muslim, if the thread-starter is one. Just a little observation. :D

tan_r
20-01-2005, 04:11 PM
Probably the title of the thread should be changed. I think it sounds a bit patronising when it comes from a non-Muslim, if the thread-starter is one. Just a little observation. :D It simply shows how narrow-minded some people can be, to bring up this issue of who contributes more and who contributes less for a humanity cause.

Joe Gomez
20-01-2005, 04:20 PM
Probably the title of the thread should be changed. I think it sounds a bit patronising when it comes from a non-Muslim, if the thread-starter is one. Just a little observation. :D

Topic ok lah JackRyan1975. But, I agree with robertec, that subsequent tilts given were uncalled for.

It is a learning process ...... I am learning ( as I am sure all of us forumers are ) where that elusive, thin line of "sensitivity" lies.

fRaNkY
20-01-2005, 04:25 PM
Cool down, brothers and sisters...... of all races, colours and religions in this forum

Everything said here should not be construed an intention of bad to the others.

Let us not pointing fingers and accuse anyone.

Though you have read my first post, u have not understand the last line... May Peace on Earth... surely I would not want people to fight and war of words here.

Tomorrow is a holy day, so lets have a truce.

btw... I am not muslim :D

Pets=Friends
20-01-2005, 04:26 PM
Sorry to digress a bit but I just notice, Congrats to Mack for being made a moderator. With your fair posting style, I'm sure you'll be able to tame a lot of bulls around here. Can moderators flash yellow cards? ______________________________________________

Wouldn't it be unfair if we impose our own values on others. Kindness should be from the heart and not in the form of media coverage and mock cheques. I think franky is merely suggesting, no pun intended and such. Noble thought but has it been carried out before, I always thought that the sacrificial of cows is considered a religious obligation. I am also certain that no MP would even propose this considering how their statements can be misconstrued.

pcyeoh
20-01-2005, 04:38 PM
Earlier I mentioned that there must be a cut off point. Now I am going to say there must be a limit. If we let people start to freely think of ways and means to raise money for the Tsunami victims, we will be getting more and more ridiculous suggestion. There was even one suggestion that our government just do away with one year of khidmat negara program, it can afford to contribute RM 500 million to the Tsunami Fund. Why not everybody just stop smoking for a year, we can proudly donate RM 2.5 billion to the Tsunami Fund.

I also have been reading that the distribution of the donation in cash and in kind is tainted by race, religions, creed and political beliefs and affliation. People are wrong when they say money is the root of all evil. The correct saying is "The love or even the greed for money is the root of all evil." Put money in the hands of these people is like pouring water on the desert sand. I think the money donated especially in our country is sufficient for all their needs but not their greed (those guilty ones who are well off but still ask for handouts).

JackRyan1975
20-01-2005, 04:43 PM
Please consider looking at the bigger picture. I think I wouldn't like to be asked to celebrate a religious occasion differently by a person who doesn't share the same belief.

I'm not questioning Franky's intent, which I think is innocent and constructive. Just wish to add a little bit of political-correctness.

Joe Gomez
20-01-2005, 05:51 PM
Please consider looking at the bigger picture. I think I wouldn't like to be asked to celebrate a religious occasion differently by a person who doesn't share the same belief.

I'm not questioning Franky's intent, which I think is innocent and constructive. Just wish to add a little bit of political-correctness.


If it was constrcutive ...... HOLY COW .... it was constrcutive period .... lets not labour the point beyond that. At least it was not derogatory OR demeaning.

Though there was all round denial subsequently ..... in the recent past, Christians were told to celebrate the birth of Christ w/o mentioning Christ's name ..... not by a Christian sitting behind a bureaucratic desk, you can be sure. I dont mean to open another can of worms ...... but such advice and consideration for sensitivity was not forthcomiong then !!!
I am not prescribing that we crucify that bureaucratic bloke who said it in the first place but I am against drawing sensitivity lines as finely as prescribed by JackRyan1975.
There is something called convenient & selective sensitivity. When this card is over-played it gets tiresome. Lets drop this line of discussion and get on with the thread.
fRaNkY meant well ..... that's it.

JackRyan1975
20-01-2005, 06:45 PM
. I dont mean to open another can of worms ...... but such advice and consideration for sensitivity was not forthcomiong then !!!
I am not prescribing that we crucify that bureaucratic bloke who said it in the first place but I am against drawing sensitivity lines as finely as prescribed by JackRyan1975.


I was not a participant in this forum back then, and have not gone through every discussion to gauge the level of sensitivity that you can or cannot tolerate. I'm just stating what I would feel if someone from a different religion suggesting to me how I should celebrate my religion, something that is personal to me.

pcyeoh
20-01-2005, 07:22 PM
Let us deviate from all this and let me entertain you by sharing this story from the Bible how Hari Korban come about from another religion's perspective.

Abraham also known as Ibrahim was a very obedient servant of God. He was blessed in every way except with a child. He prayed hard and with great faith as his wife Sarah was already in her eighties. But he couldn't wait while God was deliberating. I understand he had an affair with his Egyptian maid and brought into this world an illegitimate son named Ismeal or Ismail. A deal was struck by God that the maid took with her, Ismeal from Abraham tribal land and head east and God promised her that He would make her a great nation (thus the Arabs nation)

Meantime when Sarah hit her 90, God told Abrahim that he was going to be a proud father and should name his son, Isaac. He couldn't help laughing for he could not imagine how his wife could be giving birth at that advanced age. (by the way the Romanian lady is still not the record holder for being a mother at 65) Indeed, she did and God had the last laugh.

Then, one day God wanted to test Abraham on his gratitude. He was asked to go up Mount Arafat and sacrifice his only child Isaac as a proof that he was willing to give back to God what God gave to him whom he treasured greatly. On that fateful day, he brought along Isaac and told him that they were going on a journey up the mountain to make sacrifices to God and he has to come along and helped him. So the little boy was more than eager to help his papa and up the mountain they went.

That boy was smart. Beside the many things they had brought along, one important thing was missing. In any sacrifice, the Jews would always slaughter a lamb. So along the way, he kept bugging his dad why they were not bringing any animal to slaughter but the father kept brushing off his son's irritating question as he had no heart to tell him the truth. So upon reaching the mountain top, both father and son prepared the altar. I don't know how Ibraham managed to coax his son to lay on the altar. He was lying there so innocently when he was about to slaughter his flesh and blood. In a flash faster than a bullet, God interferred in the nick of time and prevented a murder from taking place. He also could not bear to see his obedient servant killed his only son to prove a point to Him. Instead, He made a lamb come out of the bush and the rest is Bible history. That also is how the origin of the word 'sacrificial lamb' came about.

From that day onwards, the Jews and the Muslim celebrate this day. Abraham had shown the courage and I might also add "madness" to prove to God a point - that what He giveth, He could also taketh.

mackzulkifli
20-01-2005, 08:31 PM
Well said PC. The last post was a cooler head.

pets=friends,

Actually I am a temp, only for the time that the donation drive is active. In Penang we use to call the 'bond', thuathau-or bighead because they always wore helmets ... that means I am a temp-thuathau. LOL

I really think this conversation is unneccesary beyond the fact that you are giving or not. What you gave, is entirely a matter for you good graces and what you want to give is a decision that only you can make and no one should question it.

PC, I really think that there is a line and somehow, we should not cross it. To stop smoking or not, to give when and how is entirely up to them. We as an organisation have decided to stop collecting as per agreed in our meetings and we adhered to that.

So I am guessing that PC point that we not take this too far is a point well taken and since we are both in agreement, thereupon ends the matter.

What I refuse to deny is Robert's good intention. It should not be turned into any religious, political or any other. Joe was spot on trying to offset a potential firecracker.

Thereupon, let us drop this issue. It is neither worth our emotions as to persuade charity is virtue and dissuade charity is vice. To warn of worngful charity is noble.

I think that applies to whatever religion you are. Even if you have none.

kwchang
21-01-2005, 08:55 AM
Well said Mack, and we thank all the other 'veteran' members who have come up to help diffuse the issue. By the way, I was away for a few days and I am glad to note that we have capable members minding the store. That puts Rule 2c in action. Arigato gonzaimas.

It is about time we locked this thread. What say you?

orchipalar
21-01-2005, 09:08 AM
Err...dear Chang :) ...ahem....Orchi would like nothing more to see...how so many interllectual adults here wouldn't want to agree with you...err...any less..:)

TQ everyone..n Selamat Hari Raya Qor'ban :)