View Full Version : Homosexuality: Inert or learned?

14-01-2005, 01:53 AM
Hi, fellow forumers, I have just read a wonderful article in the Star about homosexuality. My question is, is homosexual an inert or a learned behaviour. Here I have post one of the article for your reading. :cool:

Changing sexual orientation through reparative therapy

Some believe that sexual orientation can change while others do not think so. Some psychiatrists even warn that “there may be severe emotional and social consequences in the attempt to change from homosexuality to heterosexuality.”

However, the results of a study conducted by Dr Robert L. Spitzer published in the Archives of Sexual Behavior (October 2003), challenges the widely-held assumption that a homosexual orientation is an intrinsic part of a person’s identity that can never be changed, according to the US National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality (Narth) based in California.

In the 16-month study, 200 respondents of both genders out of 247 reported changes from homosexual to heterosexual orientation lasting five years or more.

They had a predominantly homosexual attraction for many years, including the year before starting therapy. After reparative therapy, they experienced a change of no less than 10 points, lasting at least five years, towards the heterosexual end of the scale of sexual attraction.

Spitzer is a prominent psychiatrist who played a major role in removing homosexuality from the American Psychiatric Association’s manual of mental disorders in 1973.

These results contradict the position statements of the major mental health organisations in the United States, which claim there is no scientific basis for believing that psychotherapy is effective in addressing same-sex attraction.

Yet Spitzer reported evidence of change in both sexes, although female participants reported significantly more changes than male participants.

The majority of respondents (85% male, 70% female) did not find the homosexual lifestyle to be emotionally satisfying.

From the study, 79% of both genders said homosexuality conflicted with their religious beliefs, with 67% of men and 35% of women stating that gay life was an obstacle to their desires either to marry or remain married.

Although all of the participants had been sexually attracted to members of the same sex, a certain percentage (males 13%, females 4%) had never experienced consensual homosexual sex. More male respondents (34%) than females (2%) had engaged in homosexual sex with more than 50 different partners.

Spitzer said the data collected showed that, following therapy, many of the participants experienced a marked increase in the frequency and satisfaction of heterosexual activity, while those in marital relationships noted more emotional fulfilment between their spouses and themselves.

Most respondents indicated that they occasionally struggled with unwanted attractions. In fact, only 11% of the men and 37% of the women reported complete change.

Nevertheless, Spitzer concluded that the study “clearly goes beyond anecdotal information and provides evidence that reparative therapy is sometimes successful.”

Is reorientation therapy harmful? Spitzer noted there was no evidence of harm.

“To the contrary,” he said, “they reported that it was helpful in a variety of ways beyond changing sexual orientation itself.”

Spitzer said the American Psychiatric Association should stop applying a double standard in its discouragement of reorientation therapy, while actively encouraging gay-affirmative therapy to confirm and solidify a gay identity.

In his conclusion, Spitzer said “mental health professionals should stop moving in the direction of banning therapy that has, as a goal, a change in sexual orientation.

“Many patients, provided with informed consent about the possibility that they will be disappointed if the therapy does not succeed, can make a rational choice to work toward developing their heterosexual potential and minimising their unwanted homosexual attractions.”

In 1970, the Kinsey Institute at Indiana University, United States, reported people’s sexual fluidity: 84% of the homosexuals studied had shifted their sexual orientation at least once; 32% of them reported a second shift; 13% reported five changes in their sexual orientation.

Dr Irving Bieber in his book Homosexuality: A Psychoanalytic Study concluded that after treating more than 100 homosexuals, “a heterosexual shift is a possibility for all homosexuals who are strongly motivated to change.”

Change effort is helpful in developing non-sexual relations with the same sex. Research results showed that change is possible and scientifically proven, and an individual should have freedom of choice to change if he chooses to, said Grahame Hazell, a counsellor who founded Lifeline Ministries in France.

He said that in turning away from homosexuality, it does not mean that one turns to heterosexuality as a cure but that one achieves wholeness as a person.

Some counsellors say that when deep emotional and psychological wounds are dealt with, some subsequently are able to like the opposite sex. – By Loh Foon Fong

14-01-2005, 02:45 AM
Circumstances may lead to homosexuality

Joe Ang has horrid memories of his toddler days. His babysitter, who was his mother’s friend, used to lock him in the toilet with cockroaches for company. At other times she made him kneel in front of the altar the whole day.

Joe, now 22 and a customer service executive, also remembers how she rubbed chilli powder on his lips and caned him for no reason.

She also brainwashed his mother and told awful stories about him. His mother believed her friend and meted out similar treatment at home. Other family members could not understand why Joe was rude to adults. Joe had no respect for adults as a result of the abuse he suffered.

Only his father was there to protect him and Joe found his security in him.

In primary school, Joe only mixed with the girls. He enjoyed playing with their toys. People thought he was weird but nobody realised there was a deeper problem.

When he was 13, Joe had an encounter at a public swimming pool that frightened him – a man had secretly touched Joe’s private parts, and he was aroused. “I started dreaming of having sex with guys and there was no one I could talk to about my problem,” says Joe.

As he grew older, Joe took an interest in men’s bodies. At 17, he started surfing the Internet to find out more about homosexuality. There he met gays who encouraged him to indulge in homosexuality.

“Their words didn’t help me but one day, I met a guy while chatting on the Internet. He seemed sincere. We kept in touch and one day, I confessed my feelings to him.

“The relationship lasted a year and a half. I didn’t realise that I had a barrier towards women as a result of the abuse I received.

“I felt I couldn’t provide security for a girl and I was craving for security myself.”

A relationship with another guy he met in Kuala Lumpur didn’t last either because the guy was only looking for a fling and didn’t really care about him.

“I was so depressed and I wanted to die. I wasn’t fitting in with the guys in school because they were into things like football. I didn’t know who I was. My own mother cursed me.

“I would walk in the middle of the road when going to school, hoping a car would run me over. I didn’t understand what I had done wrong. It was hell for me.”

Joe has now reached a stage where he is saying “no” to other guys. Though he had a girlfriend before they broke off recently, he still found himself attracted to a male colleague. “As I got to know him better, I started to see his faults and realised that it was not a crush, but a temptation,” says Joe.

Jiv Raj, a 22-year-old student, also had a strained relationship with his mother. To this day, he still bears a lot of resentment towards her. “My parents’ marriage was an unhappy one, and my mum took out her disappointment on her kids. She was harsh and had a nasty temper whereas my dad was the mild sort who kept quiet most of the time while my mum did the talking. She wore the pants in the family.

“I don’t find myself sexually or romantically drawn to women although 80% of my friends are females. I’ve realised that it’s because of my barrier issue towards women. I lacked female love in my life.

“When I was eight or nine, I enjoyed looking at pictures of body-builders in magazines. The men in my neighbourhood fascinated me, too.”

Jiv had his first sexual experience with a classmate when he was 12. When he left for further studies in Australia, Jiv let his hair down.

“In Australia, everyone is okay with homosexuality and they were supportive of what I did. When I was doing my pre-university studies in Malaysia, I told my coursemates that I was gay and they said it was no big deal. But I had this fear of being found out.”

Jiv had as many as 10 gay partners during his two years in Australia. But one day, his parents got wind of it from Jiv’s former college-mate in Malaysia.

“My mother was horrified and tried to get me to see a counsellor in my university but over there, they were very pro-gay.”

Jiv’s mother managed to keep the secret for a year, but when relatives in Australia heard about it, his parents decided to bring him back to Malaysia. They drove him down to Malacca one day to get help from Real Love Ministry.

“I thought my parents were crazy and backward when they dragged me to see Edmund Smith. But now I realise that it is circumstances that have made me this way. I have many gay friends and I can see how their backgrounds have influenced their lifestyles.

“I’m currently celibate but I’m still attracted to those of the same gender. I’m living in the hope that, one day, I’ll be able to change.”

Jazlyn Chee, 19, ran away from an abusive mother and was sent to Gracehaven, a home in Singapore for children and teens who have committed a crime or need shelter. The other girls were mean to her and she didn’t feel accepted until one day, she met a house-parent, Amanda Perumal (Smith’s wife), who treated her well.

“I started to depend emotionally on her and was jealous when others talked to her. So I decided to become a butch to pursue her,” says Jazlyn. “I showered her with gifts but one day, I saw a picture of her with a man. I was heartbroken when I found out that he was her husband.”

Jazlyn later got close to her roommate in Gracehaven and they began to date for a couple of months. But Amanda started reaching out to Jazlyn and told her that she would accept her as a god-sister. They started to share a deep platonic relationship and over time, Jazlyn began to embrace her identity as a female. “I’ve discovered I am prettier now compared to the past and I now appreciate the fact that I am created to be a woman.

“There are realities in life that everyone has to face. We have to accept the things we cannot change. When I knew that Amanda was married, I couldn’t change that fact, but I had to change myself by facing the truth. If I continued to desire her in the wrong way, I would hurt myself more deeply.

“I am happy to share a deep platonic relationship with Amanda and have even started to date guys.”

Jazlyn is now a kindergarten teacher and is in charge of Real Love Ministry’s work in Singapore.

Though Erie Teng, 23, has never led a homosexual lifestyle, he admits to having a gay orientation. Erie had grown up being rejected by his mother as she thought he had brought her back luck – she lost her job soon after Erie was born. He was often the target of her anger and frustration, receiving more caning compared to his older brother.

Erie felt that something was not quite right with him as he was attracted to macho-looking men.

“I didn’t get much love from home, and though I can be close to girls, I treated them as my sisters and nothing more. When girls showed an interest in me, I ran away from them,” says Erie.

“I’m resolving my vacuum issue by sharing a deep platonic relationship with men. I’ve learnt that men can love each other deeply in the right way. Most gays have a terrible vacuum issue that causes them to search for love and they get confused between love and sex.

“Resolving the barrier issue isn’t just about getting a girlfriend. It also revolves around how a man should treat, and react to, the opposite sex,” adds Erie.

14-01-2005, 03:04 AM
I am sad to see a lot of suffering people kept in bondage by the very people that they could trust. The stories above are just some common themes that we can see running in people of the same sex orientation. :confused:

I also see the western pro-gay establishment as a threat to a healthy lifestyle. By saying that homosexuality is inborn, they have somehow eliminate the need for suffering people from seeking councelling and therapy to change.

I do not advocate an attitude of hate toward these people who just happen to have a different sexual orientation from the norm. I believe society has a big role to play in changing this mindset of homophobe and hate crime commited in the name of religion and bigots. :mad:

Instead we need to understand them better and to help them by councelling them that homosexuality is not unchangeable. Many of them come from broken family which most of us are fortunate that we do not share the same misfortune. They were sexually abused and subsequently were psychologically scarred for life and confuse their real sexual orientation.

I remember studying about sexual pervertion while in medical school which include homosexuality, bestiality, voyerism and peadophilia a long time ago. But now homosexuality has been removed from that list and was accepted as normal. I am just wondering when will it be when society too will deem bestiality and peadophilia as just another human inborn ability. What are becoming as a society? We are living in the 21st century and morally, we are still in the middle ages. :mad:

14-01-2005, 10:47 AM
Is the same question we have to ask ourselves, why we prefer certain food than others. That simple. no need to have the study and waste the money.

This thing happen century ago, was only suppressed by the zealeous religious authorities.

The gay will ask back the question at us, why we prefer women than man? How to answer? :rolleyes:

Do not use religious as the tool to answer. From history, we know they were wrong many times before but now things are the accepted norm. Please let the religious dark ages by gone be by gone. We live in the 21st century. Not 7 or 14 century anymore. Circumstances change and we have to change with it, else we still live in that century. :rolleyes:

14-01-2005, 01:37 PM
Well wildbill, I am sorry but I don't buy your notion that homosexuality is a choice or a fab lifestyle or some religious mumbo jumbo prosecution. In fact if you have not read the above article, please do because no where was it found any religious connotation attatched to my argument. All my argument are base on established facts and figures.

Just in case you might think that i am on a wild witch hunt to prosecute homosexual then you are wrong. They are just as much a part of society as we are. What I am against is the wrong notion/doctrine proposed by gay right activist all this while that being gay is a lifestyle choice or inborn. That is just very sad.

As a medical professional, I am face with this issue all the time. I can see that these group of people are hurting real bad. Am I just going to tell them that it is all right, you are just born that way? Where are the facts? We would just perpetuate this myth further. Soon peadiophilia will claim contitiutional rights to practise their lifestyle openly. Where are we going to stop? Your call.

14-01-2005, 01:41 PM
Homosexual: An Urban Legend

What I am about to write here is not to bash homosexual in general but to bring to light the truth behind this urban legend. I'll be looking at the commonest homosexual myths that people are born gay, and hopefully answering their arguments. I hope that the information here will be helpful to all out there who are not informed. It is my prayer that you will be able to share it calmly and compassionately to others, remembering that homosexuality isn't just a political and moral issue; it is also about people who are badly hurting. Hopefully, it will be an eye opening issue that will help homosexual to address this issue openly and to seek counseling instead of hiding in shame.

People are born gay: One of the most persistent and culturally damaging Homosexual Urban Legends is the erroneous claim by homosexual activists that they are "born gay" or that their sexual orientation emerges in early adolescence and is fixed and unchangeable. One or both of these urban legends has been perpetuated not only by homosexual activist groups but by prestigious organizations like the American Psychological Association and the American Psychiatric Association.
There are three ways to test for inborn traits: twin studies, brain dissections, and gene "linkage" studies. Twin studies show that something other than genetics must account for homosexuality, because nearly half of the identical twin studied didn't have the same sexual preference. If homosexuality were inherited, identical twins should either be both straight or both gay. Besides, none of the twin studies have been replicated, and other twin studies have produced completely different results.
Brain dissections by homosexual researcher Simon LeVay who studied the hypothalamic differences between the brains of homosexual and heterosexual men noted: "It's important to stress what I didn't find. I did not prove that homosexuality is genetic, or find a genetic cause for being gay. I didn't show that gay men are born that way, the most common mistake people make in interpreting my work. Nor did I locate a gay center in the brain."
Finally, an early study attempting to show a link between homosexuality and the X- chromosome has yet to be replicated, and a second study actually contradicted the findings of the first. Homosexual researcher Dean Hamer, for example, attempted to link male homosexuality to a bit of DNA located at the tip of the X chromosome. He has written: "Homosexuality is not purely genetic…environmental factors play a role. There is not a single master gene that makes people gay. . . . I don't think we will ever be able to predict who will be gay." Even if homosexuality were someday proven to be genetically related, *inborn* does not necessarily mean *normal*. Some children are born with cystic fibrosis, but that doesn't make it a normal condition.

If Not Genes, Then What Causes Homosexuality?

Regent University’s Law Review for Spring, 2002, is entirely devoted to a discussion of various aspects of homosexuality, including the origin and causes of homosexual behaviors. The Law Review includes a study, " Homosexuality: Innate and Immutable?" by Dr. A. Dean Byrd and Stony Olsen.

After discussing the lack of evidence on the genetic origins of homosexuality, Dr. Byrd and his associate detail the various environmental factors that can lead a person into a homosexual lifestyle. These are some of the factors:-

Gender Confusion: Dr. George Rekers, an expert on Gender Identity Disorders, is author of dozens of scholarly research papers on homosexuality and wrote Growing Up Straight: What Every Family Should Know About Homosexuality in 1982. He is also editor of Handbook of Child and Adolescent Sexual Problems, published in 1995. Dr. Rekers stated in 1995, that "Gender nonconformity in childhood may be the single common observable factor associated with homosexuality. Some of the typical childhood factors leading to homosexuality are: feeling of being different from other children; perception of father as being distant, uninvolved and unapproving; perception of mother being too close, too involved; diminished or distorted masculinity or femininity; premature introduction to sexuality; and gender confusion.

Failure To Internalize Maleness: Dr. Joseph Nicolosi, president of the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH) has written: "Homosexuality is a developmental problem that is almost always the result of problems in family relationships, particularly between father and son. As a result of failure with father, the boy does not fully internalize male gender identity, and develops homosexuality. This is the most commonly seen clinical model." Dr. George Rekers, writing in Growing Up Straight, observes: "Many studies of homosexual patients as well as of nonpatient homosexuals have established a classic pattern of background family relations. The most frequent family pattern reported from the male homosexuals includes a binding, intimate mother in combination with a hostile, detached father."

Sexual Abuse By Same-Sex Predator: In studies conducted by Diana Shrier and Robert Johnson in 1985 and 1988, males who had been sexually abused as children were almost seven times as likely as non-molested boys to become homosexuals. Dr. Gregory Dickson recently completed a doctoral dissertation on the pattern of relationships between mothers and their male homosexual sons. His paper is entitled: "An Empirical Study of the Mother/Son Dyad in Relation to the Development of Adult Male Homosexuality: An Object Relations Perspective." Dr. Dickson's study is reviewed on the NARTH web site. His study sheds new light on the relationship between early childhood sexual abuse and a child's later involvement in homosexual behaviors. According to Dickson, an alarming 49% of homosexuals surveyed had been molested compared to less than 2% of heterosexuals. His study affirms previous findings of Dr. David Finkelhor (1984), which found that boys victimized by older men were four times more likely to be currently involved in homosexual behaviors than were non-victims. As Finkelhor observed: "It may be common for a boy who has been involved in an experience with an older man to label himself as homosexual (1) because he has had a homosexual experience and (2) because he was found to be sexually attractive by a man. Once he labels himself homosexual, the boy may begin to behave consistently with the role and gravitate toward homosexual activity." (Child Sexual Abuse: New Theory and Research, New York: The Free Press, 1984).
Counselor Dr. Robert Hicks, author of The Masculine Journey, has written: "…In counseling gay men for twenty years, I have not had one yet whom I would say had a normative childhood or normative adolescent development in the sexual arena. More often than not I have found stories of abusive, alcoholic, or absent (physically and emotionally) fathers: stories of incest or first experiences of sex forced upon them by older brothers, neighborhood men, or even friends. I sometimes find these men have had early exposure to pornography…."

In conclusion, homosexuality should be view in a different light not as an alternative sexual lifestyle but rather as a sexual perversion that should not be allowed to perpetuate in our society. It is time for society to be aware of this problem before it becomes an institution like the Gay Right Movement in the United State of America. I am not advocating a hate message here but rather to understand the background behind homosexuality and thus we could be equipped to deal with it better.

14-01-2005, 01:51 PM
Hi bugbear,

I know as we look at them physically, they are nothing different about them. The different is deep down in them. I for one had been friend with them and work with them in the past. I couldn't understand why they have different inclination toward the same sex. The more I talk and work with them, the more I found their feeling were natural from within them.

Example, how do you feel when you kiss and hug a same sex person? You feel strange isn't it? That is the same feeling they got when they kiss and hug the opposite sex. Hard to understand but that's true.

If as a physician you can address their problem, that had been done long time ago by others doc. already. Mind you, many doc that I know, also gay.

14-01-2005, 02:10 PM
Hi wildbill,

The next time you saw your gay friend, try asking him/her how was their childhood. Was they abused, broken family etc. I can't help it but asking because none of the people that I know of have a happy childhood. Most of them relate about certain instances about being molested as a child by an older stranger/family friend/siblings/parent/relative.

You know, with what we read constantly in the newspaper about little kids being molested, sodomised, rape and incest...I am frankly worry about their mental state which remain latent until when they grow into their teens. They will suddenly experience an unsual liking for the same sex. They become confuse and goes into denial. Some even commit suicide because they just could not face their love one.

You see, these people are hurting and it is none of their fault really. They were robbed of their childhood innocence by babaric humans. I message is also for prevention and action against violent sexual criminal offenders.

I also urge parents to be aware of their children whereabout and to be in touch with them and nurture them in love and respect at all time. Spend time with them and not just leave them to their own devices. As parents that is our responsibility.

14-01-2005, 03:24 PM
Hi bugbear :D ,

You got the point, but not all facing the abused during childhood.

Remember, one time there were one study about hardcore criminal, and stated that most of them have a bad childhood experienced that make them such a monster when they grow-up? But the actual fact later, nobody really know what happen and can't really pin point to it?

Nothing is black and white, in between, many shade of grey.....

14-01-2005, 05:57 PM

Do you have any figure to back up your claim that Homosexuality is inborn? I prefer to work with facts and figures here. You must prove your argument scientifically otherwise it is without merit I am afraid. :cool:

Ultimately, what we know or don't know will shape our national policy toward homosexuality. I will outline to you a possible scenario if Malaysia was to make homosexuality legal. We will see a lot of people of the same sex holding hands in public and making out in the park around KL. Invariably, cases of molestation will be on the rise as young children and teenages will be targeted by the rising numbers of gay in the community. Subsequently, gay will also demand to be marriage. Since they cannot have babies, they will resort to surrogate mothers and IVF/GIFT from donors sperm. HIV and AIDS cases will be just as common as your cough and cold cases. Many more wonder drugs will hit the store but still no cure for AIDS. Family institution and values will be worthless as children from gay marriages will never know what maternal of paternal love is like. The children of both this group will invariably shun each other and over time, fertility rate of our nation will fall as death rate increases as AIDS and suicide rate shoots up.

Then we as a nation will die a slow dead. :(

16-01-2005, 12:17 AM
Pedophiles And Homosexual Activists Push For Total Sexual Liberation

In August, 2003, the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) filed a lawsuit against the state of Kansas over the state's criminal sodomy law involving children. The ACLU is defending Matthew Limon, a homosexual who committed sodomy against a 14-year-old boy in 2000. At the time of his crime, Limon was 18 years old. The ACLU is claiming that Limon's conviction is unconstitutionally discriminatory because the penalties for sodomy with a minor are different than for heterosexual sex with a minor.

Kansas Attorney General Phill KIine says the fairness of Limon's sentence should be a state legislative issue, not a constitutional one. According to Kline, "If the ACLU wins in the thrust of their arguments, it means the state has no right to say that it is illegal for an adult to have sex with a 13-year-old child." Kline also fears that an ACLU victory will make it difficult for the state to enforce laws against polygamy, incest, bestiality, and other sexual perversions.

The effort to abolish "age of consent" laws has been a long-time goal of homosexual activists. The 1972 Gay Rights Platform, for example, called for the abolition of all laws prohibiting sex with children. The platform demands: "Repeal of all laws governing the age of sexual consent."

In September, 1995, three homosexual activists published an essay entitled, "The State Of Gay Liberation" in Guide, a homosexual publication. The essay was authored by North American Man Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) co-founder David Thorstad, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Professor Richard D. Mohr, and San Francisco journalist Bruce Mirken.

Thorstad, of course, is a life-long pederast and homosexual activist who clearly describes the important linkage between homosexuality and pedophilia. In a speech given before a homosexual group in Mexico in 1998, Thorstad said: "Pederasty is the main form that male homosexuality has acquired throughout Western civilization-and not only in the West! Pederasty is inseparable from the high points of Western culture-ancient Greece and the Renaissance." (David Thorstad, "Pederasty And Homosexuality," NAMBLA web site)

Fellow author Professor Richard Mohr, is a homosexual activist who is an advocate for same-sex marriage and has said he hopes that homosexual marriage will help define "monogamy" out of marriage altogether. (Stanley Kurtz, "Beyond Gay Marriage," The Weekly Standard, Aug. 4-11, 2003)

Bruce Mirken is a homosexual and San Francisco journalist who was arrested in 1998 for attempting to have sex with a 13-year-old boy he had contacted through the Internet. When he entered a Sacramento park to sodomize the boy, he was met by police who had been tracking his activities on the Internet. The charges were eventually dropped against him on a technicality.

Sexual Liberation For Children
Thorstad and Professor Mohr want sexual liberation for children and Mirken believes that AIDS activism is what will help perpetuate and strengthen the homosexual movement.

According to David Thorstad, in "The State Of Gay Liberation," homosexuals must get back to a "radical vision of sexual freedom for all. We need to reaffirm our place in the great variety of same-sex behaviors that exist-have always existed-in human societies. We dare not allow our homosexual gift to be alienated from us by the limited vision, stifling political correctness, and erotophobic provincialism." In short, homosexuals should openly support the promotion of adult/child sex!

Professor Mohr argues that the use of "gay youth" is a key to gaining political and cultural victories in the U.S. He writes: "...these brave youth are key to culture's change on gay issues. Thanks to them, increasingly people know someone for whom being gay is an issue. Thanks to them the gay movement is achieving critical mass." Bruce Mirken claims that radical AIDS activism is what will save the homosexual movement from decline.

The effort to push adult/child sex isn't limited to these three homosexual activists. It is part of the overall homosexual movement. As author Mary Eberstadt wrote in "Pedophilia Chic: Reconsidered" in The Weekly Standard, (Jan. 1, 2001): "The reason why the public is being urged to reconsider boy pedophilia is that this 'question,' settled though it may be in the opinions and laws of the rest of the country, is demonstrably not yet settled within certain parts of the gay rights movement." Eberstadt notes that as the homosexual movement becomes more mainstream, this "question" about adult/child sex will become more prominent. Homosexuals who desire sex with children will do exactly what the ACLU is doing in Kansas: Destroy all laws banning sex between adults and children. :eek: :mad: :eek: :mad:

16-01-2005, 12:41 AM
Victim's Turned Victimizers: The Consequences OF Homosexual Child Abuse
The steadfast denial of the disturbing ties with pedophilia within the homosexual movement is no purely academic matter. Perhaps the most tragic aspect of the homosexual-pedophile connection is the fact that men who sexually molest boys all too often lead their victims into homosexuality and pedophilia. The evidence indicates that a high percentage of homosexuals and pedophiles were themselves sexually abused as children:

The Archives of Sexual Behavior reports: "One of the most salient findings of this study is that 46 percent of homosexual men and 22 percent of homosexual women reported having been molested by a person of the same gender. This contrasts to only 7 percent of heterosexual men and 1 percent of heterosexual women reporting having been molested by a person of the same gender."
A study of 279 homosexual/bisexual men with AIDS and control patients discussed in the Journal of the American Medical Association reported: "More than half of both case and control patients reported a sexual act with a male by age 16 years, approximately 20 percent by age 10 years."
Noted child sex abuse expert David Finkelhor found that "boys victimized by older men were over four times more likely to be currently engaged in homosexual activity than were non-victims. The finding applied to nearly half the boys who had had such an experience. . . . Further, the adolescents themselves often linked their homosexuality to their sexual victimization experiences."
A study in the International Journal of Offender Therapy and Comparative Criminology found: "In the case of childhood sexual experiences prior to the age of fourteen, 40 percent (of the pedophile sample) reported that they had engaged 'very often' in sexual activity with an adult, with 28 percent stating that this type of activity had occurred 'sometimes'"
A National Institute of Justice report states that "the odds that a childhood sexual abuse victim will be arrested as an adult for any sex crime is 4.7 times higher than for people . . . who experienced no victimization as children."
A Child Abuse and Neglect study found that 59 percent of male child sex offenders had been "victim of contact sexual abuse as a child."
The Journal of Child Psychiatry noted that "there is a tendency among boy victims to recapitulate their own victimization, only this time with themselves in the role of perpetrator and someone else the victim."
The circle of abuse is the tragic legacy of the attempts by homosexuals to legitimize having sex with boys. For too many boys it is already too late to protect them from those who took advantage of their need for love and attention. All too many later perpetrate the abuse by themselves engaging in the sexual abuse of boys. Only by exposing the lies, insincere denials, and deceptions -- including those wrapped in scholastic garb -- of those who prey sexually on children, can we hope to build a wall of protection around the helpless children among us. :mad:

Dr. Dailey is a senior fellow for culture studies at the Family Research Council.

17-01-2005, 01:03 AM
Here is another article on sexual predators. Back in the eighties, I used to worry about young girls being raped or being molested but now I am more worry for the young boys. Huh, how time has change. I think it is time that the government aslo set up a special NGO to provide councelling for boy's rape center instead of just forcusing on the fairer sex only. This is just the tip of the ice berg. Many boys suffer their humiliation internally because they could never admit that they as boy/man can be raped. :mad:
We as parents just cannot sit and not do anything about this manace.

Instructor faces 71 charges of molest

A FORMER St John Ambulance instructor is facing 71 charges of molesting young boys who were members of the brigade.

Tan Swee Koon, a 32-year-old clerk at the Ministry of Defence, is accused of molesting seven boys and a fellow instructor dating as far back as January 2002.

According to police investigations, at the time of the offences, seven of his victims were secondary school students and members of the St John Ambulance Brigade.

His eighth alleged victim, a 23-year-old full-time national serviceman, also served as an instructor with the uniformed body.

Among the charges laid out on Thursday, Tan was accused of outraging the modesty of a 15-year-old boy in September 2003.

Tan allegedly asked the boy to remove his shirt, and touched the boy’s upper body with both hands inside a lift at Block 143, Potong Pasir Avenue 2.

He had also allegedly in the same month asked the same victim to strip to his underwear and touched the boy’s body. The incident allegedly took place at Tan’s home in Jelebu Road.

The most recent incident, in April last year, was said to have happened at a house in Mar Thoma Road, involving another 15-year-old boy.

Tan will be remanded at the Institute of Mental Health for a psychiatric examination until his next court appearance, scheduled for Jan 27.

If convicted, he could be jailed for up to two years on each charge, as well as fined or caned. –The Straits Times/Asia News Network

17-01-2005, 03:59 PM
Hi bugbear, :D

Please indicate the original sites where you got your information with url. Thanks.

17-01-2005, 09:25 PM

Be glad to.


Just some here but why don't you search the web for yourself. Try google homosexual. :cool:

17-01-2005, 10:19 PM
Here is another link to the Homosexual agenda by gay revolutionist Michael Swift. http://www.afa.net/homosexual_agenda/takeover.asp :mad:

18-01-2005, 12:00 AM
Finally, after all that have been said, I would like to show everyone that being homosexual is not necessary a permanent thing. You can change because you can and don't let others tell you otherwise. I feel newspaper columnist like Tell Telma of the Star are giving some of the most dangerous advice there is to confused people out there. :mad:


Some years back, an American musician writing under the pseudonym of William Aaron described his homosexual life and his change to heterosexuality. He wrote, "For twenty years I was a homosexual: absolutely and nothing but .... I enjoyed sex with men, enjoyed it thoroughly and the more the better. The very thought of sex with a woman was abhorrent and frightening. Today, years away from all of that .... I am functioning heterosexually and enjoying it." [W. Aaron, (1972) Straight: A heterosexual Talks about His Homosexual Past, Garden City, p. 14f, NY: Doubleday & Company, Inc.,]. "I like being married: it gives me a feeling of stability and rightness that I never had before .... I like being a father; it is a rich emotional experience." [idem.]
He continues, "If you're homosexual and unhappy about it, believe me you don't have to stay that way. Cut your ties with the old life and get yourself reconditioned .... If you need help, get help. But don't sit around saying, 'Poor me, here I am stuck with being a faggot.' You don't need to be stuck with it, any more than you need to be stuck with alcoholism or pills, with acrophobia or xenophobia, or with any other unwelcome response or habit pattern. Discover your endless potential for change and development."

Yes! You can change. :)

18-01-2005, 10:42 AM

Be glad to.


Just some here but why don't you search the web for yourself. Try google homosexual. :cool:

The reason I am requesting you to provide the link is that those articles you posted is not written by you and the reference is important for follow-up purposes. I hope you don't get mad and ask me to search it myself. Why should I re-invent the wheel if you already the expert in this field. Share lah!!! :D

18-01-2005, 04:41 PM
Yo wildbill,

No offence taken and none intended either. :)

What happen around us is turning our world up side down all in the name of human right. We have human right this and human right that and next we will also have human right to kill one another. :mad:

The world have gone to the dog so to say. What was deem proper has now been deem as immoral and what immoral before was deem as whiter than snow. It give us cause for concern that wickedness has multiply on the face of the earth as human gets more modern. Of course not all things change for the worse but those that are not acceptable or repugnant to our sensibility should not be allowed to flourish. I am glad that in Malaysia, this manace has not taken hold of as compared to the US. It has become an institution to the point that it has become a right. The world has come full circle to the biblical time of sodom and gomorrah. We know what happen then, and we too knew what will happen now. Look around you. Any similarity? :confused:

24-01-2005, 01:43 PM
P&G Chairman Gives Thousands to Promote Homosexual Agenda

A.G. Lafley, CEO of Procter & Gamble, recently gave $5,163 in P&G stock to help the homosexual community repeal a law in Cincinnati that prohibited giving special rights to homosexuals.

In addition to Lafley’s personal contribution, P&G gave $30,000 corporate funds to help push the homosexual political agenda.

“The more we learn about Procter & Gamble, the more we see the company’s close ties with the homosexual leadership. Under the leadership of Chrm. Lafley, P&G has been one of the strongest corporate sponsors of the homosexual agenda in the country.”

In addition to providing funding for the homosexual agenda, the company also approved a leave of absence for a high-ranking P&G official to head up the homosexual effort. The company put out a bulletin to their employees stating that if they did not support the homosexual agenda in Cincinnati, they were “out of step” and that endorsing the homosexual agenda in the city was the “right” thing to do.

And while P&G were pushing the homosexual agenda in Cincinnati, the company absolutely refused to support a statewide amendment to the Ohio Constitution banning homosexual marriages.

P&G said they refused to support the Ohio marriage amendment banning homosexual marriage, deciding to “let the voters decide.” But they took a different attitude in the special rights for homosexual referendum in Cincinnati, giving money and leadership and encouraging voters to support the homosexual agenda because it was the “right” thing to do.

P&G has been a leading sponsor of two homosexual-promoting TV shows—Will & Grace and Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, investing over $10 million dollars in just a few months in advertising support for the programs.

The company actively seeks out individuals who practice the homosexual lifestyle to come to work for the company. Its company logo and corporate contact information appeared on the top homosexual job recruiting site in America.

P&G regularly supports pro-homosexual media with advertising. But because of complaints from homosexuals, the company dropped advertising on the Dr. Laura show because of her politically incorrect view that homosexuality is wrong.

P&G sponsors the annual “Out & Equal Workplace Advocates” workplace summits. Out and Equal is a homosexual advocacy organization promoting homosexuality in major companies.

American Family Association is asking individuals to:

1. Boycott three products of P&G — Crest® toothpaste, Tide® detergent, and Pampers® diapers. (Some are boycotting all P&G products, which we encourage. To print out a list of P&G products, click here.)

2. Print out a Boycott Procter & Gamble Petition and distribute among Sunday school and church members and with friends. Click here for a pdf version of the petition.

3. Please register your support for the boycott at pgboycott.com.

4. Call Chairman A.G. Lafley at 513-983-1100 and politely let him know that you are participating in the boycott and will ask others to do the same.

5. Help us spread the word by forwarding this to friends and family. :mad:


Just be inform of what P&G are up to. Cheers all. :)

28-01-2005, 01:25 PM
Here is a post in BBC. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4084951.stm

Madrassas hit by sex abuse claims

A Pakistani minister has revealed hundreds of cases of alleged child sex abuse at Islamic schools, or madrassas.

There were 500 complaints this year of abuse allegedly committed by clerics, Aamer Liaquat Hussain, a minister in the religious affairs department, said.

That compares with 2,000 last year, but as yet there have been no successful prosecutions, Mr Hussain told the BBC.

The minister's revelations have sparked death threats and infuriated some religious political leaders.

Mr Hussain said he had received death threats from clerics, but that he had done his job and his conscience was clear.

Leaders angered

The time had come for his country to face the bitter truth - the sickness of child abuse, he said.

The allegations involving Pakistan's Sunni majority and Shia minority referred to a tiny proportion of the country's 10,000 or so madrassas, he said.

He added that the body responsible for them, the Federation of Madrassas, was willing to co-operate with investigations because some clerics were bringing a bad name to Islam.

However, the revelations have angered some Islamic leaders. At a parliamentary meeting this week, some demanded he apologise.

The abuse revelations were made during a week in which the Pakistani government has been meeting religious leaders to build awareness of the spread of HIV/Aids.

Pakistan is stepping up its anti-Aids campaign, and the idea is to utilise the clerics' unique reach into communities to increase HIV/Aids awareness and to preach prevention.

The sickness of man know no bound. We are living in a world og great peril. Guard yourself and your love one from prowling beast in sheep clothing. :mad:

28-01-2005, 03:42 PM

I used to be put-off by homosexuals. After many exchanges in various forums i have came to realize and understand that they are only humans.

We humans, like most others come in a spectrumatic shade-of-greys. If we take 100% of all homosexuals, there will be a percentage that borned with it and another proportion which are acquired.

All humans are initially female and get transformed in the womb to male depending on genetics, neural variables, etc. (Note:crocodiles depend on the temperature surrounding the hatching eggs).

In the transformation process the ultimate result of whether one is female or male is depended upon the connections of 100 billions brain cells (each with 10,000 sub-connections). Imaging the possible permutations of these connections.

With the axiomatic 'shade-of-grey' principles, a percentage of human borned will fall within various degree of the female-male spectrum, i.e. of group will be borned 'not-their-choice' homosexuals.

Within the borned-homosexuals, there will be a group of hard-to-change homosexuals. For them, there is no point trying to change them as the neural connections are hard-wired at birth. Imagine trying to rewire 100 billions organic neural connections.

Within the 100% of hard-to-change homosexuals, as with the shade-of-grey principle there will be the good and bad of the spectrum. Like all news, it is only instinctive and natural that we hear more of the bad news than the good. Therefore, not all hard-core homosexuals are bad. We do not actually know what percentage of hard-core homosexuals are bad since we do not know the whole population of them.

I believe we should see homosexuality in its total perspective and not just condemn them outright. I agree that we should make attempts to prevent acquired homosexualism and deals with those whose brain are more maleable.

29-01-2005, 01:05 PM
Hi Nik_of_time,

Glad to hear of your view on this subject. If you have read my previous post, you would know that I do not advocate a hate message or a homophobe in disguise here. :)

They are after all human who have a different sexual orientation from the majority of us. However, I do not agree with your notion that homosexual is inborn. While it may not be too improbable for your shade-of -gray theory that some are indeed born as homosexual but somehow it sound a bit funny don't you think so? Well suppose an individual is indeed an inborn homosexual but that still does not mean that it is normal. Cystic fibrosis is a type of lung disease which is inborn but yet it is not acceptable nor compatible with life in an infant.

Numerous scientific studies have been done in regard to proving that homosexual is normal but till date non have been conclusive. Untill and unless, science can prove that homosexual is inborn i will still consider it with suspicion. As a health professional, I would advocate therapy to help these unfortunate soul to return to the normal path in love, gentleness and dignity.

The so call gay right movement are by and large form on a misguided idea that being gay is inborn. What we must resist is the non-founded claims by a section of society to equal right as homosexual marriage and family covenant right. This is precisely what is happening in USA and with it a whole new spectrum of social and family degenration diseases arise.

To conclude, looking at this issue from whichever angle, be it scientific, social, politic or religious, it is clearly not a compatible lifestyle. Let not our passivity or ignorant of the real issue at hand blind us into permissiveness to a lifestyle that is alien to us.