Is Hang Tuah A Chinese ?

[keroncong_asli]

Author: guo zhongli
Date: 11-15-02 07:14

source: http://membersites.namezero.com/n3a.9599.org/suaraanum/0305b02.htm
Admin note:
The above link no longer exists as the website had been closed due to seditious content

The article entitled "Hang Tuah Berbangsa Cina" (Hang Tuah is a Chinese) is written in bahasa Malaysia, the national language of Malaysia, I hope to be able to translate it into English once I have some time. For forumites who understand Malay it makes interesting reading though.

Hang Tuah Berbangsa Cina
Shahabudeen Jalil

Ramai di kalangan anggota masyarakat kita terutamanya orang-orang Melayu menganggap Hang Tuah adalah legenda pahlawan Melayu. Pada hakikat sebenarnya Hang Tuah bukanlah dari keturunan Melayu sebagaimana yang disangkakan. Itulah yang bakal dihuraikan dalam artikel ini.

Selama ini orang-orang Melayu telah terkeliru atau mungkin tertipu dengan kedudukan Hang Tuah sebagai legenda pahlawan Melayu yang dibangga-banggakan. Hang Tuah sebenarnya telah diMelayukan untuk tujuan kemegahan semacam bentuk yang tercatat pada Robin Hood.

Di dalam bilik-bilik darjah, dewan-dewan kuliah atau seminar bermotifkan sejarah atau kajian sejarah hanya membincangkan tentang kepahlawanan, kebijaksanaan serta kesetiaan Hang Tuah. Kisah Hang Tuah yang diagung-agungkan ini telah menenggelamkan keadaan sebenar tentang asal keturunannya.

Di kalangan masyarakat Melayu dewasa ini telah timbul semacam keraguan tentang pahlawan mereka ini, apabila penghormatan kepada pahlawan mereka mula dipersendakan dengan reaksi-reaksi melampau seperti kelihatan dalam filem Hang Tuah.

Keraguan terhadap kedudukan Hang Tuah sebagai pahlawan Melayu telah menghasilkan satu penyelidikan dijalankan terhadap asal usul keturunan secara hipotesis. Jika pepatah Melayu sendiri telah mengatakan ¡®bahasa jiwa bangsa¡¯ dan ¡®manusia mati meninggalkan nama¡¯ . Bagaimana pula kita hendak menafikan kenyataan ¡®nama menunjukkan bangsa¡¯. Bahasa ¡®nama¡¯ merupakan identifikasi yang cukup jelas untuk mengetahui jenis sesuatu bangsa itu.

Bukti yang dapat menerangkan asal-usul Hang Tuah setakat ini, hanyalah dapat disandarkan pada namanya. Oleh itu satu kajian secara hipotesis telah dijalankan dengan bersandarkan kepada ¡®nama¡¯ manusia untuk memperolehi jawapan tentang asal-usul Hang Tuah sebenarnya.

Dalam perbendaharaan nama-nama orang Melayu semasa zaman kesultanan Melaayu Melaka, tiada terdapat nama-nama seumpama Hang Tuah, Hang Kasturi, Hang Jebat, Hang Lekir, Hang Lekiu, ringkasnya ringkasan yang bermula dengan ¡®Hang¡¯. Sejarah juga telah mencatatkan nama-nama dari bangsa Cina yang bermula dengan Hang, Tan, Maa dan Lee. Ia bergantung kepada suku kaum atau asal-usul keturunan mereka dari wilayah tertentu dari China. Kemungkinan untuk mendakwa bahawa gelaran ¡®Hang¡¯ telah dianugerahkan oleh Raja-Raja Melayu juga tiada asasnya.

Mengikut kertas kerja yang dihasilkan oleh Mohd. Yunus Ibrahim dari Jabatan Sejarah UKM dengan tajuk ¡®Melaka 1400-1511 Dari Aspek Kemasyarakatan,¡¯ cuma menyatakan bahawa sesuatu penghormatan, ketaatan atau kedudukan adalah diberi gelaran seperti Bendahara, Paduka Raja, Temenggung, Laksamana, Shahbandar dan Mandulika.

Mengikut buku ¡®Sejarah Melayu¡¯ edisi W.G. Shellabear penerbitan Malaya Publishing House Ltd. Singapore halaman 123-131, menyatakan tentang Tun Perpatih Putih, iaitu utusan Sultan Mansur Shah ke negeri China telah membawa balik bersamanya seramai 500 orang dayang serta Puteri Hang Li Po. Sultan Mansur Shah dikatakan telah berkahwin dengan puteri dari China ini dan telah menghasilkan anak bernama Paduka Mamat.

Perkara yang menarik dari edisi W.G. Shellabear ini ialah munculnya nama puteri Hang Li Po. Hasil perkahwinan ¡®campur¡¯ antara puteri Hang Li Po dengan Sultan Mansur Shah, telah dikurniakan seorang putera dan telah diberi nama Paduka Mamat. Nama Paduka Mamat adalah nama Melayu dan tidak pula berlaku nama ¡®Paduka Hang Mamat¡¯ sebagai penghargaan kepada puteri Hang Li Po, contohnya. Sejarah telah membuktikan bahawa nama-nama dari keturunan Cina biasanya bermula dengan Hang, Tan, Maa dan Lee bergantung kepada suku kaum mereka dan dari wilayah tertentu asal mereka.

Jika dihubungkaitkan dengan nama Hang Tuah dari sebutan loghat Cina adalah berbunyi seperti Hang Too Ah. Nama Hang Jebat berbunyi Hang Jee Fatt, Hang Lekir pula seperti Hang Lee Ker, manakala Hang Lekiu seperti Hang Lee Kiew. Mengikut prosedur tentang suku kata nama bangsa atau keturunan Cina, biasanya cuma terdiri dari 3 suku kata sahaja. Nama Hang Kasturi pula diragui kerana 4 suku kata walaupun ia bermula dengan perkataan Hang. Perkataan Kasturi pula ada berbaurkan loghat bahasa Melayu.

Terdapat 3 andaian hasil kajian secara hipotesis yang dijalankan.

Pertama : Hang Kasturi adalah berbangsa Melayu tetapi bergaul rapat dengan anak cucu dari rombongan puteri Hang Li Po.

Kedua : Nama sebenarnya ialah Kasturi tetapi telah digelar Hang Kasturi oleh 4 orang rakan karibnya yang berketurunan Cina sehingga menjadi sebutan yang kekal.

Ketiga : Mungkin nama Cina sebenar Hang Kasturi sukar disebut oleh masyarakat tempatan. Oleh itu mereka telah memberikannya nama baru mengikut loghat orang Melayu tempatan dan nama ini telah diterima dengan baik oleh beliau.

Perkara lain yang menarik ialah petikan kertas kerja Ong Hak Ching. Jabatan Sejarah UKM ada mengatakan bahawa Sultan Mansur Shah telah memberikan tempat kediaaman di Bukit Cina kepada puteri Hang Li Po serta 500 orang dayang-dayangnya. Anak-anak cucu mereka digelar ¡®biduanda Cina¡¯ juga bermakna golongan yang dilindungi. Sama ada yang sudah memeluk Islam atau masih memeluk agama asal mereka.

Terdapat 3 andaian secara hipotesis mengenai hal ini.

Pertama : Tidak kesemua dari anggota rombongan puteri Hang Li Po yang memeluk agama Islam.

Kedua : Hang Too Ah, Hang Jee Fatt, Hang Lee Ker, Hang Lee Kiew, adalah keturunan dari rombongan puteri Hang Li Po.

Ketiga : Keempat-empat sahabat ini kemudiannya telah memeluk agama Islam tetapi mengekalkan sebutan nama mengikut loghat bahasa Melayu atas sebab-sebab tertentu, seperti Hang Tuah, Hang Jebat, Hang Lekir dan Hang Lekiu.

Hal yang lebih lanjut mengenai Hang Kasturi. Telah timbul percanggahan pendapat sejak dahulu lagi, sepertimana kajian secara hipotesis ini meragukan tentang nama sebenar Hang Kasturi. Percanggahan pendapat ini berlaku antara pengarang ¡®Sejarah Melayu¡¯ dan pengarang ¡®Hikayat Hang Tuah¡¯ mengenai siapa sebenarnya telah menderhaka kepada Sultan Melaka. Pengarang Sejarah Melayu menuduh Hang Kasturi manakala pengarang Hikayat Hang Tuah Pula menuduh Hang Jebat.

Pertama :Tersirat sesuatu hal yang unik dan tersembunyi tentang kedua-dua tokoh pahlawan ini sehingga tidak ada satu kata sepakat di kalangan kedua pengarang serta pakar sejarah lampau.

Kedua : Pengarang ¡®Sejarah Melayu¡¯ telah menggunakan bahan dalam penulisannya secara mengambil pendapat lisan dan tiada ada satu penyeledikan terperinci, kerana ia menyentuh kisah-kisah yang terlalu luas serta hal-hal yang menyeluruh.

Ketiga : Pengarang ¡®Hikayat Hang Tuah¡¯ adalah lebih formal kerana menggunakan semacam bentuk kajian sehingga dapat menggariskan hal-hal peribadi Hang Tuah secara lebih detail.

Hasil kajian secara hipotesis ini telah membuktikan pengarang Hikayat Hang Tuah mempunyai banyak kelebihan dan penulisannya tentang hal Hang Jebat yang telah menderhaka kepada Sultan, adalah diterima mengikut hukum asal. Rumusan daripada kajian yang dijalankan telah menghasilkan penemuan baru yang melibatkan kedudukan Hang Tuah sebagai legenda pahlawan Melayu. Mengikut kajian hipotesis ini, Hang Tuah merupakan pahlawan yang telah diMelayukan demi untuk kemegahan atau simbol kepada orang-orang Melayu. Kita lihat bagaimana hipotesis ini menerangkan asal-usul Hang Tuah.

Hang Tuah adalah anak cucu kepada keturunan rombongan puteri Hang Li Po yang datang ketika pemerintahan Sultan Mansur Shah. Nama sebenar Hang Tuah ialah Hang Too Ah. Tetapi bertukar kepada nama sebutan Hang Tuah apabila pahlawan ini memeluk agama Islam dan berkhidmat kepada Sultan Melaka.PengIslaman Hang Tuah telah mempengaruhi 3 orang rakan karibnya iaitu Hang Jee Fatt, Hang Lee Ker dan Hang Lee Kiew. Keempat-empat sahabat baik ini juga bergaul rapat dengan Kasturi, iaitu rakan sebaya mereka yang berbangsa Melayu. Mereka juga menggelar Kasturi dengan gelaran Hang Kasturi sebagai tanda satu persahabatan yang abadi.

Kelima-lima sahabat ini mula masyhur di kalangan istana apabila mereka menyelamatkan Bendahara dari serangan orang mengamuk. Mereka berlima kemudiannya memeluk agama Islam. Nama-nama mereka mengikut loghat Melayu telah tersebar dengan cepat dan meluas samada di kalangan istana atau orang-orang Melaka ketika itu termasuk nama Hang Kasturi.

Tiada bantahan yang pernah dibuat ketika itu kerana masyarakat Melayu zaman itu telahpun menganggap anak cucu dari rombongan puteri Hang Li Po sama seperti saudara Melayu mereka. Demikianlah serba ringkas kisah Hang Tuah yang berasal daripada keturunan puteri Hang Li Po dari kajian hipotesis ini.

Berdasarkan hipotesis ini juga bererti orang-orang Melayu telah kehilangan seorang pahlawan lagenda yang selama ini mereka bangga-banggakan. Walaupun demikian orang-orang Melayu telah terselamat daripada tuduhan menderhaka kepada Sultan. Hang Jebat atau nama asalnya Hang Jee Fatt yang telah menderhaka kepada Sultan bukanlah daripada keturunan orang Melayu Jati.

Berdasarkan hipotesis ini juga bererti orang-orang Melayu telah kehilangan seorang pahlawan lagenda yang selama ini mereka bangga-banggakan.Walaupun demikian orang-orang Melayu telah terselamat daripada tuduhan menderhaka kepada Sultan. Hang Jebat atau nama asalnya Hang Jee Fatt yang telah menderhaka kepada Sultan bukanlah daripada keturunan orang Melayu Jati?

http://www.asiawind.com/forums/read.php?f=2&i=1704&t=1704

[keroncong_asli]

Penulis: XXX
Tajuk:Read on ..
Sun, Oct 24 2004 at 12:26 am

Isi Cerita:
In June 1998, the government of Malaysia had hired a team of experts
from across the continent to be gather here in Malaysia for a research
project to compliment the history studies that we undertaken in our
secondary school. The objective of the research is simply:

1. To find prove and evident that show the Malays are the origins of
Malaysia and they are the first race and religion that lands their foot
in Malaysia.

2. To further strengthen their claims, first they need to find the grave
yard of the Hang Tuah, Hang Jebat, Hang Lekiu and etc..to show the
existant of their pioneer.

3. The Batu bersurat in Terengganu, reveals that the islamic religion
has landed in malaysia for a hundred years ago which further strengthen
their claims!

That is why, we are taught with sejarah (history of malaysia)!!!!

BEWARE & OPEN YOUR EYES!!! go ask your brother, sister, niece, newphew
and etc. etc, since the year 1999 (if i'm not mistaken) or year 2000, do
they study about HANG TUAH anymore????????

Why is that popular subject GONE????? Missing in action??????? or
evidence reveals something different that causes the government to stop the
syllabus and HIDE the TRUTH????????

Here are the Evidences of the findings by the team of scientists,
archaeologist,historian and other technical staff from the United State,
United Kingdom, Germany, Canada, Yemen & Russia.

The evidence are:

1) They finally found the grave yard of Hang Tuah, Hang Jebat and
etc..., their skeleton had been analise and samples of DNA had been taken
with the results show:

Hang Tuah, Hang Jebat, hang Lekiu and mates, they are NOT MALAY!!!!!!
they are CHINESE (islamic)from china!!! and why are they here in
Malacca?????
because they are in a misison to protect the UNGRATEFUL MALAY from the
potential attack of SIAM (Thailand)!!!

So Hang tuah is not malay hero!!! they are the protector of the useless
and ungrateful Parameswara (who is from INDONESIA)landed in Malacca and
claim the land belongs to him!!!

The hang tuah bunch of people are all from china, they are being assign
to malacca because parameswara request the Ching Dynasty Emporer for
protection!!!

This is why the Hang Tuah series of history is MISSING from the SEJARAH!!!!

2nd. Evidence:

The researchers hired by the government found the oldest tomb stone(grave
yard) in Kelantan in year 2000. Suprisingly the tomb stone are at least
900 years old!!!! older than the so-called batu bersurat. and the best
thing is, it belong to the CHINESE!!!!!!!!

Being landed first in Malacca doesn't mean malay is the first in Malaysia
cos during that time, the road is too long for them to see the other side
of the coast!!! where the chinese has landed far more earlier.

If you want the black and white evidence of the truth reveals please
write to the The Federal Association of Arc & Research of Michigan, USA.
Please do not ask the chinese nor the indian to go back to their home
country! Cos evidence shows that Malays are NOT Malaysia origin either!
Your ancestor are all imigrant from INDONESIA! Let us unite as a nation
and not divided by races. And give the full support to our leader.

http://forum.onecenter.com/cgi-bin/forum/forum.cgi?c=msg&fid=malaysia&mid=33589

[lord]

Whoa, this is a pretty sensitive issue if you ask me, man. Had a pretty rough argument which would have ended up in fist fight a few years back.

The other 'mystery' is about the Portugese ppl of M'cca who, I swear, look like Indians but they swear they are Portugese. I have 'cracked' the mystery and will swear my theory is right.

Happy swearing on this one, keroncong!!

[keroncong_asli]

Lord,
I got a jolt when someone forwarded that article.
I've many Portugusese frens and altho dark, their facial features does not resemble Indian. Maybe looks more like Orang Asli.

Btw, I'm starting to write to :-
The Federal Association of Arc & Research of Michigan, USA
to get authenticity of that article on latest finding of Hang Tuah's nationality.

[lord]

Keroncong, from what I heard from my pals, Hang Tuah and the magnificent 5 have been taken out of the Sejarah school books. Can't confirm but would greatly appreciate if other forumers can confirm.

As for the Portugese (sorry for hijacking your thread), it starts from the time Mr. Alfonso set sail to the far east. The stopover for supplies was at Goa. When they land there, they also take with them kulis to work onboard, Ramasamy's, Kuppusamy's and the rest. As the Portugese come in fleets of 15-20 ships, you have these masses of Indians onboard these ships. St. Francis Xavier also contributed to the great confusion. Another reason why the mojority of them are Catholics.

When they land on shore, they are identified by the surnames of their captains or admirals, De'Cruz, Pereira, Bosco, Pinto, Danker, Rodriguez and etc. They then inter-marry the locals, be it the natives, chinese or other indians from Indonesia. They then create an ancestoral line with the their new found surnames.

This is purely an assessment from my research, there's actually more to it but am keeping it brief.

Now the logical part kicks in.

Tell me, if a kwai-lo were to live in the Far East for donkey years and has a child with another kwai-lo, will that kid at the age 40 look like an Indian?! Will he be so tanned that he starts to have reverse pigmentation? The bloke I met in front of the Stadhuys, which intiated my interest to uncover this X-Files, looked like a brother from the hood, estate lah! Why estate? Becoz the brothers down there have a very dark complexion becoz of their work under the sun. And I started talking to him in tamil. He was lost and said, to my horror, he's a Portugese and his name is Rodriguez!!!

Joe, ask any Portugese from Portugal to converse with them in Portugese and our guys are just as lost as the original blokes. The M'cca portugese have their own language, which they call Portugese, but is Greek to the fellows in Portugal. Sure beats the crap out of me!!!

How I know this? I had a Dutch counterpart who was with me(he lived in Portugal during his teens and early adulthood) when I spoke to Rodriguez. When Norbert, my friend, spoke to him in Portugese, Rodriguez was clueless.

For more interesting finds from Dr. Lord, you have to meet me in person!

[uchangeng]

sounds to me like it is the best way to absolve an entire race from disgrace. we did not betray our sultan, it was someone else from China. so, it is better to lose a hero than being branded a traitor. the sin is someone else's, as always!

[Timo]

Interesting. However I do not see any reason why this should be sensitive, what does it matter whether they were chinese or not? He was Malaysian and that should be that. I am a 'chinese' and I did not see the Hang's any differently because they were 'Malay'. In fact I did not classify them as races when I first read about them in our history, just liked the fact that these characters once existed (I hope), like our very own knights!

[daws]

But Timo not everyone is so open minded as u and i belive most of usj.com.my forummers, to c Hang Tuah for his act of bravery and not his colour! The Powers That Be in our country would very much like to preserve the fact that Hang Tuah was of a certain race to show a certain "edge" in this race but it seems like facts have finally prevailed and they can't seem to stomach the facts! So instead of teaching history and featuring Hang Tuah as a brave MALAYSIAN, the Powers would rather he be done away with! Such open mindedness after 47 years of Merdeka!!!. The losers will be the school kids who have lost a piece of interesting history.

BANGSA MALAYSIA? i think not

[wildbill]

That's the main problem in Malaysia now, we still define who is Malay, Chinese, India or some other races.

Can we starting to put all these aside and call ourselves Malaysian :confused:

Whether is Hang Tuan or Hang Too Ah, it's Malaysia history and no matter how you write it, the history will stay. :mad:

As for us, you can say what you are, we all are borned in Malaysia.

Can you change it :confused: Might be on paper, but deep down in you, you know it. Who are you kidding :confused:

[Gohead]

I will not be surprise in the very near future, our future generations will be more ke-melayuan or more ke-cinaan or more ke-indianan; and not towards to more ke-malaysiaan. Notice or un-notice, we are the root cause of this un-healthy social culture. We have indirectly grooming this culture into our children at the beginning of age 7 years. We’re letting them only within their own races for the whole day, whether at home and school.

To share with U, two of my children can speak and write in Chinese even they’re schooling at Sekolah Kebangsaan (evening) and Islamic School (morning). They’re still attending Chinese extra classes besides day-to-day schooling and music activities.

Too sad to read from one of the parents in ‘Extra Chinese class in USJ’ thread, that suggesting to physically relocate the Bukit Fraser Chinese school to USJ due to less takers over there and ask Selangor Education to full fill his favour.

[Ski]

Malaysian history I noticed in the present day books, has been altered and changed extensively since my days of history mugging. In this case and in my opinion he will always remain for whatever reasons a Malay Warrior.This legend will live and remain.

[achee]

Hang Tuah, either chinese or malay, is no big deal. Very interesting to know and the historians to rationalize this whole issue.

I wish pal isarahim is around to trash his theory and findings on this, and mr administrators, please give him a free hand. I miss reading his intelectual postings.

[kwchang]

Keroncong_Asli's repost of the discussion from the Malaysia Boleh forum in forum.onecenter.com borders on the thin line for a yellow card at least. For the benefit of all members, I suggest you refrain from quoting verbatim from such sources. A hyperlink is sufficient if you think it is necessary but no wholesale reprint of the contents. I don't know how many of you had gone on to that forum - it stinks of heavy racialism.

My personal reaction to this debate is it smells a lot like a myth. It seems trivial where the whole argument hangs on the name "Hang" to have a direct relationship to being Chinese.

As for Isarahim, I wonder why Achee thinks I am going to block his comments?

[aroki]

kwchang,

well said!!!! like they say garbage in garbage out. Sources need to be more reliable.

In penang they use the word 'hang' as a slang instead of awak..not sure of the spelling. But sounds the same...no...no. hang tuah is not hokkien or the lucky one (awak tuah)!!! ;)

[yablato]

rubbish lah. if hang tuah is a chinese, he aledy a YB Dato Hang Tuah.

but we all lato tink hang tuah was a gangsta with flying banana-kick kung fu/wushu/shao lin drunken monkey martial art skills. All these he picked up from princess hang lipo. tat why he can aso fly from loof-to-loof and then fly from tlee-to-tlee to gunung ledang to meet his girflen one. ;)

yang akan bersilat lato

[yablato]

oh, sorry ah.
Hang Tuah aso like all YB latos. he was a Malaysian. Chinese martial art gansta or Malay warrior not with standing.

yg akan berusaha lato

[keroncong_asli]

kwchang,
Since the above posting is considered offensive, could you kindly remove it immediately before more damage is done to this forum. Thanks.

[b]Admin note[/b
I only said that it borders on being offensive considering what the original website's contents were. Your post can stay as is. The statement was to warn other forum members about extracting more offensive content from other websites in future

[Gaban]

The story of Hang Tuah is just a myth or
hanya rekaan semata-mata tiada kaitan kepada yang hidup atau mati...
This just rumors going around just like the "surat layang Siti Nurhaliza "
-----------
Menyanggah 'Hang Tuah Berbangsa Cina'
Azman Nor

Saya tidak berapa setuju dengan hipothesis yang dibuat oleh Sdr. Shahabudeen dalam artikelnya Hang Tuah Berbangsa Cina. Perlu diingat bahawa Hikayat Hang Tuah yang dirujuk hanyalah buku cerita bukannnya buku sejarah.

Sejarah Melayu karangan Tun Sri Lanang juga bayak mengandungi cerita dongeng seperti asal usul orang kerajaan Melayu yang berasal daripada kayangan, orang bunian, dikaitkan dengan Iskandar Zulkarnain dan lain-lain lagi. Teks sejarah perlu dikaji dengan kritikan hermeneutics dan pendekatan kajian sanad seperti pengajian hadith barulah lebih kuat untuk buat andaian.

Fakta sejarah kewujudan kerajaan Jawa, memang ada dan disebut oleh pengembara-pengembara Arab seperti Ibn Batuta. Tak dinafikan juga keagungan Melayu Melaka dengan kaitan kedatangan agama Islam, pedagang-pedagang India, Cina dan lain-lain lagi.

Tapi mengenai kepahlawanan Hang Tuah bagi saya adalah rekaan cerita dongen seperti cerita Mak Yong dan wayang kulit yang diwarisi turun temurun bersama sedikit tokok tambah seperti adanya keris sakti Taming Sari yang menjadi buruan mereka yang mempelajari ilmu silat. Ada juga yang berkata bahawa Hang Tuah ghaib, ada pula yang kata dia pergi Mekah, mati di sana, yang mana ada sedikit modifikasi diselitkan unsur-unsur Islam supaya nampak Islamik. Sedangkan orang yang bernama Hang Tuah mungkin tidak pernah wujud, kalau wujud pun tak tahu nama sebenar, dan kiranya itu namanya pun, belum pasti sama ada dia Islam atau tidak, samalah juga watak Pak Kadok, Lebai Malang, Pak Pandir dan lain-lain lagi, yang hanyalah komedi dan hiburan rakyat kebanyakan sebelum munculnya filem-filem Bolywood dan filem Melayu P. Ramlee. Cerita Hang Tuah ada sedikit adegan lasak dan mencabar, cerita Pak Pandir - cerita lucu yang cukup diminati orang Melayu, bukannya kepahlawanan Rasulullah, cerita para sahabat - yang sepatutnya menjadi bahan kajian dan tauladan.

Hipothesis yang lebih sesuai ialah:

1. Hang Tuah adalah cerita dongeng rakyat Melayu.

2. Orang Melayu mudah percaya kepada perkara dongeng, kalau tidak percaya pun seronok dengar penipuan yang memang mereka pun tahu yang si pencerita itu berbohong, seperti tikam tak lut kerana memegang keris Taming Sari.

3. Cerita rakyat semakin hilang pengaruh dengan kedatangan sastera asing seperti sastera Inggeris dan bertambah majunya media cetak dan elektronik sebagai alternatif kepada hiburan.

4. Dunia hiburan adalah tumpuan keseronokan yang menyebabkan kita mundur, tak maju dan ditipu oleh orang lain yang berkepentingan dari dulu, kini dan bila-bila. contoh lain ialah Mahsuri yang telah menyumpah Lankawi tujuh keturunan. sebenarnya nak cari duit untuk menarik pelancong, sedangkan tak tahu betul ke tidak cerita tersebut.

5. Walaupun sudah memeluk Islam, masih ada orang Melayu yang kurang pendidikan Islam mempercayai perkara-perkara khurafat seperti Hang Tuah masih hidup, dan berusaha bertapa dengan tujuan nakbertemu dengan Hang Tuah, dan lain-lain lagi.

6. Dengan wujudnya pondok-pondok / madrasah belajar kitab masyarakat semakin memahami Islam dan tak berapa berminat nak dengar cerita Hang Tuah, kalau dengar pun ada yang cuba mengkritik.

http://www.freewebs.com/suaraanum/0506a02.htm

[orchipalar]

Hang Tuah, either chinese or malay, is no big deal. Very interesting to know and the historians to rationalize this whole issue.
I wish pal isarahim is around to trash his theory and findings on this, and mr administrators, please give him a free hand. I miss reading his intelectual postings.

Err...dear Achee :) ...Orchi thinks so too...IsaRahim...wouldn't have any problem considering these weightless series of hypothesis(sp?)...as mere tit'bits only..... :o

Ahem...but in Orchi's own 'theory'....these hypothesis are just plain bull's poops.... :o

[CCY]

Talking about bangsa malaysia ... Since when did our Bahasa Malaysia subject changes name to Bahasa Melayu ?
Just wonder ..

[anitamoh]

CCY, I'm also baffled as I've found out that my primary 3 son's BM books are titled as Bahasa Malaysia but my primary one son's BM books are titled as Bahasa Melayu. Anybody got the answer? Our bahasa kebangsaan is Bahasa Malaysia or Bahasa Melayu?

[orchipalar]

Memory of the World Register - Nominated Documentary Heritage
Malaysia
Hikayat Hang Tuah

Hikayat Hang Tuah is regarded as a Malay literary classic and a traditional Malay epic. This folk tale has been proudly recounted to generations of Malays. It is recognised as a national literary classic which is well-known not only amongst the Malays but also to the people in the Malay Archipelago. Much studies have been made on this manuscript by local and foreign researchers.

Hang Tuah is characterised as most illustrious Malay hero in Malacca and represented absolute loyalty to the ruler as the ultimate champion of Malay loyalty, chivalry and obedience to tradition. Hikayat Hang Tuah symbolises the greatness of Malacca at that time whilst projecting the bravery of the Malays.

The National Library of Malaysia has in its possession two manuscripts of Hikayat Hang Tuah, with identification number MSS 1658 and MSS 1713. The manuscripts are written on old European paper about 200 years ago. Colophon statement is distinctly absent, as is usual in the tradition of Malay manuscripts writing. To this day the author of the hikayat remains unknown. The manuscripts are being preserved in an acid-free box and kept in strong room which is designed according to the accepted standards of preservation requirements.

http://rds.yahoo.com/S=2766679/K=hang+tuah/v=2/SID=e/l=WS1/R=3/H=0/IPC=us/SHE=0/SIG=12ch7e8nj/*-http%3A//www.unesco.org/webworld/mdm/2001/eng/malaysia/hikayat/intro.html

[uchangeng]

As usual, we are quit confused with oursleves. Not sure of anything we wnat to do, even about our national language.

May be this is how low our self confident is, want to change it but scare to do it. No valid reason, but still want to do it nevertheless, out of some bizar racist agenda!

As far as I know, it should be Bahasa Malaysia for all Malaysians.

[Ski]

Whatever name the Education Ministry wants to call it..it is the langauage of the Malays and has already been accepted by all. There's nothing to be confused.

[keroncong_asli]

Quote :- Whatever name the Education Ministry wants to call it..it is the langauage of the Malays and has already been accepted by all. There's nothing to be confused.
__________________________________________________________

Ski,
Accepted by all ???
Please do your homework well. Thanks.

In 1998, the Dewan Bahasa & Pustaka (DBP) raised the issue of whether the name should be Bahasa Melayu or Bahasa Malaysia. It raised several concerns and debates on the issue. While the debate continues till today, the language continues to evolve and the vocabulary is being enhanced, especially in new fields, for example - in the technology and engineering sector.

Bahasa Malaysia is currently accepted as the national language for the country representing all ethnicities in the government's official administration.

It is not the only spoken language in Malaysia. English, Mandarin, Tamil and others are also commonly used for communications among Malaysians in their daily tasks.

http://www.asiaosc.org/enwiki/page/Bahasa_Melayu.html

[Ski]

Hi K. Asli

Maybe my learned friend can explain to me the actual difference between B Malaysia and B Melayu.and also B.Kebangsaan..i did not find in any difference in my application of this language in school and office..maybe there is something I can learn from you.
Thankz

[keroncong_asli]

Hi Ski,
Sorry if my previous comment was hash.
However viewers especially students should be given accurate facts.

As we're aware, the controversy of B.Melayu and B.Malaysia came into being when our Govt decided to coin a Bangsa Malaysia society. They consider it to be a right path for National Intergration & Solidarity.

The Education Ministry was directed to change it to B.Malaysia but DBP & Linguistic were not happy fearing that they'll loose their identity. By an by this became a political issue and the matter is still not solve yet. Till today, after 47 of Independance, we're still discussing about National Identity.

[bishop]

1. How come they use Kris instead of chinese weapon? If they are sent to protect, shouldn't they use weapon they are best at? Maybe Tamingsari is name of a sword, with a chinese name? Many combinations here.

2. Or maybe those fellas are from Yunnan? (Islam origin, so called the Hui-zu)

3. Puteri Gunung Ledang is directed by chinese, so those Hang fellas can fly, Kung Fu and teleport.

4. Let's call it B.Melayu, which is the original form. Include all the "modifikasi", and call it Malaysian Malay. (eg: Malaysian Chinese, Manglish etc). If don wan, give it a name.

more poopoo to come...

[PianoMan]

I have a dream, that one day, men will not be judged by the colour of their skin but by the content of their heart.

[cactuc1]

If Hang tuah maybe chinese..next time can ask Jackie chan to a movie on him..!!

[kwchang]

Bishop,
I hope you had read my post (#13) on this thread.
This discussion is on racial lines.
We do not like to stir up racial sentiments on the Forum
Period.
This is a common understanding on this forum.
Assuming you are new, we let it go this time.
Please take your time to browse our many threads and find out the pulse of the Forum.

[cactuc1]

I have a dream, that one day, men will not be judged by the colour of their skin but by the content of their heart.


I personally think heart is worse than color..Color atleast is fix ..brown , yellow , white , pink , dotted , striped etc..but heart all red color , but don know whether good , bad , evil , deceiful , greedy , empty , hard ,soft or unknown..

But don count.. Micheal Jack#### from black to white..keke...

[USJ27Resident]

I have a dream, that one day, men will not be judged by the colour of their skin but by the content of their heart.

Why dream... :( there was a time when we, as children - never considered color, creed, status or whatever - and played with each other without fear or favor...

You just have to go into any kindergarten and see for yourself, that it still exist...

Only when we grow older (and so-called wiser.... ) we start to adjust or polarised ourselves as though the other race or religion is a contaminant!

Maybe we can learn from our children or younger ones on the simplicity of life itself and not to worry about what politics and politicians served to us with their (hidden!) agendas...

[tan_r]

Only when we grow older (and so-called wiser.... ) we start to adjust or polarised ourselves as though the other race or religion is a contaminant! ...
And guess where and from whom our children pick up of these negativities from? US!

[penangkia]

And guess where and from whom our children pick up of these negativities from? US!

Yes true. And guess where and from whom we, adults, pick up these negatives from? Racial parties and discrimination policies of our nation's leaders.

Mary go round the mulberry bush, the mulberry bush, the mulberry bush... :o

[tan_r]

... And guess where and from whom we, adults, pick up these negatives from? ...
Why do we, thinking ADULTS, allow ourselves to be influenced by them? Let's stop blaming others and look at ourselves first.

[penangkia]

Why do we, thinking ADULTS, allow ourselves to be influenced by them? Let's stop blaming others and look at ourselves first.

True again, only if everyone thinks like you. If everyone was honest, there would be no thievies. Wishful thinking mate.

[tan_r]

That was a trick question. :D Your response has exposed some of your true colours, no? IMO, if we are not even prepared to start with ourselves then we should stop complaining.

[penangkia]

That was a trick question. :D Your response has exposed some of your true colours, no? IMO, if we are not even prepared to start with ourselves then we should stop complaining.

Why a trick question? Was'nt even a question to start of with. What I am saying is that you maybe coming from an idealistic angle but I am looking at the issue from a realist viewpoint. I even agree with your view but do not subcribe to your utopian ideals.

My true colour ? What colour is that ? I do not indulge in personal responses whether in this forum or another. So, just leave it at that.

Stop complaining? Please, differentiate between a complaint and a discussion. I thought that was what we were doing.

Anyway, it's been nice talking with you. :)

[tan_r]

Fren, WE lah. That means me also included. :o

[HANG TUAH]

Saya Bukan Melayu... Saya keturunan Baba Dari Seberang....

[mon]

Saya Bukan Melayu... Saya keturunan Baba Dari Seberang....

Hang Tuah, could I have your autograph? :)

[HANG TUAH]

Sejarah Bangsa Melayu.....

Selepas Mahsuri melepaskan sumpah di langkasuka... segerombolan berbangsa melayu melarikan diri ke....... Linggi di Negeri Sembilan....
dan sejarah melayu pun bermula...... tak' melayu hilang di dunia.

[Ski]

Saya Bukan Melayu... Saya keturunan Baba Dari Seberang....


So are must be a Nonya, hello friend how about some recipies..can ah.

[tempuadua]

I believe the Hang Tuah story is just a myth, designed to instill into the rakyats head the sense of loyalty to the sultan. No graves of the 5 Hangs were ever found. And if he was really a chinese, he wouldn't be saying "Tidak melayu hilang didunia".
May be we can discuss about "Panglima Awang" which may prove that the first person who circum-navigate the world was actually somebody who was born and bred in a place now known as Peninsula Malaysia. He was reputed to be have served under Magellan in his shipping adventures.

[Kissme]

You & me, we all wish for peace and unity among malaysians regardless of race...But the discriminationary policies is preventing this... Imagine if you are a child and your older brother forces you to give him some of your allowance everyday. Do u think you two can be united and work together? Its hard right? When trouble comes most probably the younger bro will ditch his older bro...

[ckloh60]

All human beings and places on earth are creations of God,
So, it doesn’t really matter what races you belong to,
or which country you originated from ?

We are all creations of God.

Does it really matter whether you are black, white, yellow, red, or brown ?
Does it really matter if you are a Hindu, Taoist, Christian, or Muslim ?
Does it really matter if you have different political beliefs ?

In this beautiful earthly garden of God,
as creations of God,
we are all born equal.

Let us all not be blinded by prejudice,
emotional preferences, misinterpretations of God’s words,
political beliefs, and ill intents
Let us treat each other with respect and love.

If you believe in God,
You shall appreciate the diversities of races and places.
When you appreciate this intended diversities,
the earth shall be a wonderful world and a beautiful place.

Help your fellow human to nurture harmony in diversities.
When the world you live in is in harmony,
You shall prosper and you shall be at peace with yourself.

Deep down in you, you are a kind person.
God has a greater purpose for you,
God wants you to make this world a better place.

Put aside the misguided hatred and prejudice,
God still love you.
God wants you to repent.
Seek the guidance of God now,
Seek his forgiveness…..

Because you are not born a racist.

[uchangeng]

Oh..oh..now we get philosophical, spiritiual and I hate to be preached at.....could we just stop here, all the God story line....

Hang Tuah is a legend, a folk-lore hero, no historical fact.

[mon]

I remember a Hang Tuah in de forum..Am still awaiting his autograph.. :p..Peace..no discrimination..Peace..

[orchipalar]

Hang Tuah is a legend, a folk-lore hero, no historical fact.Err...as far as Orchi is concerned...Orchi believes n therefore prefers that the legend of Hang Tuah n his brothers...remain as it is...Malay heroes...of the past... :)

[mon]

Err...as far as Orchi is concerned...Orchi believes n therefore prefers that the legend of Hang Tuah n his brothers...remain as it is...Malay heroes...of the past... :)

I kinda prefer this too..doesn't gimme a headache..:)

[ckloh60]

Oh..oh..now we get philosophical, spiritiual and I hate to be preached at.....could we just stop here, all the God story line....

Hang Tuah is a legend, a folk-lore hero, no historical fact.

I have read through all the comments in this threads. My conclusion is ( only my conclusion, don’t get confuse), all these comments are indirectly targetted to Malaysian Malay to and making fun of them. Of course, you can denied it, but let’s be gentleman about it, the insinuations are there. It is not acceptable to derived self satisfaction at the expenses of others. The previous comment is not intended to be philosophical, even it is, there is nothing wrong with it. There should be freedom of expressions within certain limits in these forum. That freedom is not dictated by you or your gang. The comment is not intended to be religious also, it is merely to remind you of your religious commitment if you believe in GOD. But if you get offended by this reminder, it is your rights to do so. But do it politely. Overall, I have no intention to preach religion or philosophy in this forum. My message to you is very clear “ don’t do unto others what you don’t want others to do unto you”. Of course, you have all the rights to censure comments not to your likings and boss around. I respected this rights also. But as much as you want others to respect your rights to shout around, you must also learn to respect the rights of others to express their opinion. Please do not get offended by my frank comment. CASE CLOSED

[kwchang]

Dear ckloh60,
Please leave the moderation to me. As for comments from others, you had rightly said everyone has the right to express his/her opinion. So be it. Let me be the bad guy in telling people off if they did not follow our rules - both written and unwritten rules. Just PM me if you feel offended by anyone in the Forum.

[ckloh60]

Dear ckloh60,
Please leave the moderation to me. As for comments from others, you had rightly said everyone has the right to express his/her opinion. So be it. Let me be the bad guy in telling people off if they did not follow our rules - both written and unwritten rules. Just PM me if you feel offended by anyone in the Forum.

At my age, I do not get offended easily and there is no neccessity to PM you. My apology if you felt that I intruded into your moderation rights. If any of my comments are too sensitive to some of you here, my sincere apologies. Thank you very much for allowing myself to expressed my opinions here.

[orchipalar]

My apology if you felt that I intruded into your moderation rights. If any of my comments are too sensitive to some of you here, my sincere apologies. Thank you very much for allowing myself to expressed my opinions here.Err...dear CHLoh:)...allow Orchi to say this....now that's one of the traits to being a gentleman...:)

[fRaNkY]

I believe the Hang Tuah story is just a myth, designed to instill into the rakyats head the sense of loyalty to the sultan. No graves of the 5 Hangs were ever found.

If I am not wrong, during one of my photography outings in Melaka, we happen to stop by either Hang Lekui or Hang Lekir's gravenearby Jonkers Street around some chinese temples. The name is BOLDLY engrave on a tourist spot sign..... Hmmmm let me search my Hard disk.... perhaps someone can go at night and get some DNA for testing.... :p

[swee_ann_tweety]

Source: http://www.aliran.com/oldsite/charter/monitors/2005/03/snipping-of-sepet.html :)

4. On the Hang Tuah & his friends being Chinese-this fact is not correct at all. Hang Tuah is the son of Hang Mahmud & Dang Merdu Wati. Hang Mahmud was one of Parameswara's (Raja Iskandar Shah) panglimas when he founded Melaka.
The chinese "story" was made up/twisted by extremist chinese who's been trying hard to dismiss Malays' (Muslims) capability of being/having superior qualities/heroes. The director should read up on history first before allowing negative facts to blow out of proportion.

In Islam/as a Muslim, we simply do not menjatuhkan maruah sesama saudara. Thus, incorrect & unsure facts should simply be removed & not be entertained, just to get good votes/reviews from Chinese audience.

Thank you.

[bslee]

Perhaps the only item remaining associated with legend of Hang Tuah is the "Taming Sari" keris, supposedily now part of the Perak royal regalia. Would be interesting to have a good look if its on public display.

[totoro]

Source: http://www.aliran.com/oldsite/charter/monitors/2005/03/snipping-of-sepet.html :)

4. On the Hang Tuah & his friends being Chinese-this fact is not correct at all. Hang Tuah is the son of Hang Mahmud & Dang Merdu Wati. Hang Mahmud was one of Parameswara's (Raja Iskandar Shah) panglimas when he founded Melaka.
The chinese "story" was made up/twisted by extremist chinese who's been trying hard to dismiss Malays' (Muslims) capability of being/having superior qualities/heroes. The director should read up on history first before allowing negative facts to blow out of proportion.

In Islam/as a Muslim, we simply do not menjatuhkan maruah sesama saudara. Thus, incorrect & unsure facts should simply be removed & not be entertained, just to get good votes/reviews from Chinese audience.

Thank you.

Hmm, the anonymous comment left on the above blog website from which you had posted the above snippet - it did not provide references for further reading or to verify its credibility. Without that, it's still just an anonymous blog comment. :(

[shali]

Perhaps the only item remaining associated with legend of Hang Tuah is the "Taming Sari" keris, supposedily now part of the Perak royal regalia. Would be interesting to have a good look if its on public display.

Been shunning this topic really. Sorry.

The family of Hang Tuah was somewhat elaborately told in the Hang Tuah legacy book (1642), Hikayat Hang Tuan. He and his gang are briely mentioned in the Malay Annals of 1608. Its amazing that we can think he was Chinese, when his father's story was related in some detail in Melaka. Hang Tuah was injured in during the fight with Portugese armada in 1511, and fled Melaka. The last Sultan of Melaka took advice from the elerly as to where he should build his new Palace - and they pointed to one place - Riau or Bentan.

Not long after the Portugese invasion of Melaka (circa 1522), one Portugese wrote about the fall of Melaka - this 'ancient' book is available commercially- can anyone help here?

Let me stop there, and hear what others may have to say.

[jianwei85]

Been shunning this topic really. Sorry.

The family of Hang Tuah was somewhat elaborately told in the Hang Tuah legacy book (1642), Hikayat Hang Tuan. He and his gang are briely mentioned in the Malay Annals of 1608. Its amazing that we can think he was Chinese, when his father's story was related in some detail in Melaka. Hang Tuah was injured in during the fight with Portugese armada in 1511, and fled Melaka. The last Sultan of Melaka took advice from the elerly as to where he should build his new Palace - and they pointed to one place - Riau or Bentan.

Not long after the Portugese invasion of Melaka (circa 1522), one Portugese wrote about the fall of Melaka - this 'ancient' book is available commercially- can anyone help here?

Let me stop there, and hear what others may have to say.

How bout 'Sulalatus Salatin'? oso got loads of references to the Melaka Empire n bout Hang Tuah oso.

I bet Hang Tuah and ALL of US are Africans. (genetically speaking la) refer below:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Genetic study roots humans in Africa


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1058484.stm
By BBC News Online science editor Dr David Whitehouse
New evidence for the so-called Out of Africa hypothesis of modern humans suggests that our ancestors migrated from the continent about 50,000 years ago.


This is the first study in which the genome is being used in a sufficiently large number of individuals to come up with very strong evidence ... supporting the Out of Africa theory

Prof Ulf Gyllensten
Researchers from the University of Uppsala, Sweden, have based their analysis on the genetic make-up of 53 humans from diverse geographic and ethnic backgrounds.

By looking at the individuals' shared, maternally inherited DNA sequences, together with a knowledge of how this genetic material changes over time, the scientists have been able to trace our common ancestry.

As well as showing the evolutionary tree is firmly rooted in Africa, their study even suggests human numbers may have dwindled to just 40,000 at one stage.

Rival theories

There are two competing theories to explain how mankind spread across the globe.

One suggests that between 100,000 and 200,000 years ago modern man (Homo sapiens) emerged from Africa to slowly populate the rest of the world, replacing any species of human that were already there. This is the Out of Africa hypothesis.

The other theory suggests that modern humans arose simultaneously in Africa, Europe and Asia from one of our predecessors, Homo erectus, who left Africa about two million years ago.

In recent years, support for the Out of Africa theory has come from the study of DNA in mitochondria, the energy-generating structures that reside just outside a cell's nucleus. This mtDNA, as it is known, is inherited only from females. It also mutates - errors appear - at a steady rate, meaning it can be used as a "molecular clock" to investigate human history.

Deep branches

Critics argued such analysis was based on a small section, about 7%, of the mtDNA and this might cause problems in determining the genetic distance between individuals. With the data available it was not possible to trace the mtDNA lineage back to sub-Saharan Africa, they argued.

But the Swedish group have overcome some of the original shortcomings by carrying out an analysis of the complete mitochondrial genomes of their 53 subjects.

The new analysis suggests the three deepest branches on the new mtDNA family tree all go back to sub-Saharan Africa and there is another branch that contains both African and non-African mtDNA.

"This is the first study in which the genome is being used in a sufficiently large number of individuals to come up with very strong evidence, in this case supporting the Out of Africa theory," lead researcher Professor Ulf Gyllensten said.

Sports stadia

What seems particularly significant is that the amount of mtDNA diversity among Africans is more than twice as great as the diversity seen among non-Africans.

The data also show some evidence of a "population bottleneck" when the number of humans fell to a low level. It happened about 40,000 years ago when there could have been as few as 40,000 humans - a number less than many national sports stadia would hold.

The researchers may have also identified the stock of people from whom all non-Africans descended.

They write in the journal Nature: "A group of six African (mtDNA) sequences are genetically distant to those of other Africans, but share a common ancestor with non-Africans. These lineages represent descendants of a population that evidently gave rise to all the non-African lineages."

The researchers believe all humans alive today could share common ancestry with a being in Africa who lived about 120,000 to 220,000 years ago.

[kwchang]

jianwei, this thread was started when someone quoted a post in another public forum (which was closed by the authorities) spewing nonsence about HangTuah. It had been discussed and debunked.

your piece on evolution does not really make the bill here because this is not about the origin of Man per se.

[tupai]

i used to report to a Dutch man...his name is Han Nieman. He is now a god in the biggest ad agency worldwide...wonder what his roots? :confused:

I used to tell him that he must have been related to han tuah or han li po and thats why he is such a gangsta pirate and shrewd boss :mad:

Yang Ada Belajar sejarah Han this & that lato tupai

[bugbear]

How about Han Solo?

[AllUrban]

han solo...another brave hero of the republic....

I say leave HT alone...he was one of a group, and the focus of the memory should be on the group and not the one man.

If he and the others were chinese, so be it....their deeds speak to me, not their race.

Why can't they be the earliest Malaysian heroes......?

Cheers, m

[jianwei85]

jianwei, this thread was started when someone quoted a post in another public forum (which was closed by the authorities) spewing nonsence about HangTuah. It had been discussed and debunked.

your piece on evolution does not really make the bill here because this is not about the origin of Man per se.

Oh..my point being Hang Tuah is African. :D

[totoro]

The 'spewing nonsense' comment kinda caught my eye. History basically consists of writings and narratives according to how the prevailing authority wants it to be. It is not a record of facts, but rather a loose collection of interpreted stories either verbal or written, or historical artefacts.

By the way, the Hans Solo bit... LOL!

[panterna]

Hang Jee Fatt....hahahhahha...now that really made my day... ;)

[ericchan]

Hang Jee Fatt....hahahhahha...now that really made my day... ;)


I thot for a minute you had a new theory of the orgin of Hang Jee Fatt :D actually quite funny.

[LimMingTat]

Wah this theory sounds so real lo!! And it makes me proud to be amongst the Lims insted of the controversial Hangs ... I used to love the story about this Hang Two Wah a.k.a. Hang Too Ah a.k.a Hang Tuah and I watched the movie that Pee Lam Lee and the Gang made on this fellow. Of course they didn't hang Two of the Wahs.. Anyway if this theory is true, so Su Lai Man (Book Cum Late or Buku Datang Lambat) must be from China too cos the name sounds so chinese. hehehe... By the way the Malaysian rap singer, Too Phat is actually Tzu Fatt, again another Chinese. ;-)

[patwon]

hang tuah is baba from malacca.

[hhtee]

I have heard of this "rumour" also.
But there is no concrete proof that they are chinese.

However, it has ALWAYS been mentioned that

a) there was Puteri Hang Li Po from China
b) Hang Tuah is chinese
c) relate the "surnames" (so-called)

Whatever it is, I am not really "bothered" whatever race he is. What has happened in the past was in the past. I will carry on living.

Maybe when I am older and free-r, I will start reading history books

:D

[hhtee]

who knows, perhaps in some new threads somebody may start a new topic,

Chinese Evolved from Hang Rimau (Tiger)

Haha just like how humans evolved from Monkeys

[LimMingTat]

Wow wow wow!! that's a nice new name - Hang Rimau. Want about Hang Man? Chinese too I believe. But the Hanged Man would always be the drug trafficker I presume.

[drewkool]

The 'Hangs', including parameswara, have been eliminated from the history text book in today's primary syllabus.

Can anyone provide a proof above?

[hhtee]

Wow wow wow!! that's a nice new name - Hang Rimau. Want about Hang Man? Chinese too I believe. But the Hanged Man would always be the drug trafficker I presume.

Yes. The chinese invented the Hang Man too haha.... including the name Hang Man

Digressed. Sorry

[hhtee]

The 'Hangs', including parameswara, have been eliminated from the history text book in today's primary syllabus.

Can anyone provide a proof above?

I was too lazy to look at the history books.

I am sure there is a secondary school teacher here who can confirm if Hangs have been omitted.

Why leave out the history?

Who cares if Hang Tuah is Chinese or Malay ? I don't even care if Hang Tuah was a Martian race sent by the Aliens. As long as history is recorded (with no twist and turns and lies), and the future generation can refer to it, then I am ok. I am BOTHERED when someone decides to change the history.

[dryyyap]

I really would like to know if Hang Tuah has been omitted from history books? Has the bronze carving in the Muzium been removed also?

[greenherald]

Hi,

Before reading on, please keep an OPEN MIND.

I've been reading these posts. I wonder if anyone has read the research by Gavin Menzies (Author "1421"), and also research by Prod Chang in the Malaysian Branch of the Royal Asiatic Society Journal (google it) that the Ming Emperor at the time of the Malacca sultanate was a Muslim?

Strange but true. I found it hard to believe but I researched a lot of evidence and there is much corroborating data on this.

One only has to remember that Zheng He (Cheng Ho)himself was a Muslim, for this to make complete sense.

The main reason that the Malacca Sultan went to China was to seek "protectorate" status from the benevolent Ming empire at the time. The Ming emperor being Muslim, made it a point to ally with the Muslim states of South-East Asia, and Malacca was a main ally (which was one of the reasons he sent Cheng Ho there.)

Remember, the Sultan was faced by a Hindu Empire to the South (Java) and a Buddhist Empire (Siam) to the North). Being a Muslim, he had to ally with the biggest, meanest Muslim power in the neighbourhood, which happened to be the Ming emperor of the time.

Many Historians and History books (especially, ironically, the Malaysian Government written ones) fail to realise this point (that the Ming Emperor was a Muslim), and make the mistake of saying that Hang Li Po "converted" to Islam.

I dare say the whole entourage was already Muslim. It therefore makes sense that Hang Tuah and gang (who were accompanying her majesty Hang Li Po) was also Muslim. His being a Muslim also, made the local Malays identify him as being a "Malay" as well. (Note that like Cheng Ho, who kept his chinese name though being Muslim, Hang Tuah and company could have as well)

Many writers... malays included... forget that the defining attribute of being considered a "malay", at least in this region, is being Muslim. Hence the confusion as to whether Hang Tuah is Malay or Chinese... in a sense, because of his being a Muslim he was sort of both!

I really do think that if this fact were clarified, it would bring a greater bonding and understanding between the Malay and Chinese communities of Malaysia.

[ng]

Hi,

Before reading on, please keep an OPEN MIND.

I've been reading these posts. I wonder if anyone has read the research by Gavin Menzies (Author "1421"), and also research by Prod Chang in the Malaysian Branch of the Royal Asiatic Society Journal (google it) that the Ming Emperor at the time of the Malacca sultanate was a Muslim?

Strange but true. I found it hard to believe but I researched a lot of evidence and there is much corroborating data on this.

One only has to remember that Zheng He (Cheng Ho)himself was a Muslim, for this to make complete sense.

The main reason that the Malacca Sultan went to China was to seek "protectorate" status from the benevolent Ming empire at the time. The Ming emperor being Muslim, made it a point to ally with the Muslim states of South-East Asia, and Malacca was a main ally (which was one of the reasons he sent Cheng Ho there.)

Remember, the Sultan was faced by a Hindu Empire to the South (Java) and a Buddhist Empire (Siam) to the North). Being a Muslim, he had to ally with the biggest, meanest Muslim power in the neighbourhood, which happened to be the Ming emperor of the time.

Many Historians and History books (especially, ironically, the Malaysian Government written ones) fail to realise this point (that the Ming Emperor was a Muslim), and make the mistake of saying that Hang Li Po "converted" to Islam.

I dare say the whole entourage was already Muslim. It therefore makes sense that Hang Tuah and gang (who were accompanying her majesty Hang Li Po) was also Muslim. His being a Muslim also, made the local Malays identify him as being a "Malay" as well. (Note that like Cheng Ho, who kept his chinese name though being Muslim, Hang Tuah and company could have as well)

Many writers... malays included... forget that the defining attribute of being considered a "malay", at least in this region, is being Muslim. Hence the confusion as to whether Hang Tuah is Malay or Chinese... in a sense, because of his being a Muslim he was sort of both!

I really do think that if this fact were clarified, it would bring a greater bonding and understanding between the Malay and Chinese communities of Malaysia.

The Ming emperor was not a muslim. Cheng Ho is a muslim though. The founder of the Ming dynasty Zhu yuan zhang was a buddhist monk.

I think you should discuss this in www.chinahistoryforum.com to know more about the facts. There are quite a lot of good posts in this forum.

[bobkee]

Syncreticism wouldn't be a surprise among the Chinese emperors. Much much more to read about than can be said in this forum :)

[sinleong]

But Timo not everyone is so open minded as u and i belive most of usj.com.my forummers, to c Hang Tuah for his act of bravery and not his colour! The Powers That Be in our country would very much like to preserve the fact that Hang Tuah was of a certain race to show a certain "edge" in this race but it seems like facts have finally prevailed and they can't seem to stomach the facts! So instead of teaching history and featuring Hang Tuah as a brave MALAYSIAN, the Powers would rather he be done away with! Such open mindedness after 47 years of Merdeka!!!. The losers will be the school kids who have lost a piece of interesting history.

BANGSA MALAYSIA? i think not


The story of Hang Tuah and his gang is a legend, hikayat. It happened more than 500 years ago. At that time, Malaysia or even Malaya does not exist. So there was no such thing as a Malaysian

[AllUrban]

Cheng Ho (or Zheng He) arrived in Melaka in 1405.

Was the Melaka leadership muslim then? I recall that the second ruler was the one who became muslim, and started the "sultanate" that lasted until 1515 in Melaka and a few generations after 1515 in Johor....

Cheers, m

[Kenneth20]

He is chinese, full stop.

[hhtee]

I really would like to know if Hang Tuah has been omitted from history books? Has the bronze carving in the Muzium been removed also?

I think I went to MPH about 6 months ago. Hang Tuah is still in the history book

[AllUrban]

He is chinese, full stop.funny thing...with history you can never have a "full stop" because every generation will come back and review the same thing again and again...

That's why I love history...it tells me so much about people today...as well as about the past....

cheers, m

[Kenneth20]

Good one.. :D
sorry for my ignorance..