Abandon Project Landmark of USJ!!

[Mason]

I have been living in USJ for the past 2 years and have seen various dead projects!!

Does anyone know the status of these projects
1. A huge abandoned condo cum shopping complex near USJ20
2. A office block near USJ22 (near sime UEP dev office)
3. A office block near Summit

What's happening to the owner and how about the culprits involved?

This is the right time to decide if our political reps have done their job! What’s the rational of building thousands of condo units when the USJ jam packed roads has not been resolved.

Is this the USJ that we are praising about especially by our MP and ADUNs during the election campaign?

Are these our more to come USJ landmarks?

Come on…..

Any comments MP, ADUN and MPSJ], pls....

[orchipalar]

Hi Mason,
Allow us(me family) to welcome you good neighbour to this community web forum, though belated, considering that you have been living in USJ for some time now.

Let me try to answer some of your questions, since the issue been happening for as long as we could remember vaguely.

Rhythm Avenue n Newgate Apartments(USJ 20/21), n one office complex near the junction of summit(behind Shell), have been few of the abandoned projects ran by or jointly or separately managed by then listed companies on the mainboard or secondboard of KLSE - YCS, Hiap Yik, n Advangarde, which had failed n were hugely indebted due to their 'technical' incompetancy.

There is also one such abandoned large property project under their spell of 'bad luck' which is located behind Mint Hotel/Sg.Besi Highway, n infront of the Selangor Turf Club/Palace of Goldern Horse 6 star Hotel.

In the height of our economic turmoil some years back, Danaharta took over all these abandoned projects, hence today, you don't see the companies being listed anymore, except for Advangarde(secondboard). Before that they managed 'well' under Section 176 or PN 4.

Through n under mergers/acquisitions/sell offs/trade offs/under deals/overdeals/receiverships, or whatever they may call it in the biz terms, the main owners/private directors/larger shareholders of these companies, the YAP families(YCS was named after the founder), got off scot free. Privately they are still being regarded as among some of the richest chinese families in Malacca. Shame on me(chinese).

Most of the family's younger YAP generations n siblings, are mostly living in SJ/USJ community.

Infact, their current offices n operations are still located within the vacinity of USJ, opposite USJ 3/C, across the Elite Expressway.

In the process, hundreds of creditors n would be home owners, thousands of workers, n tens of thousands public share holders, billions of dollars involved with these public prior listed companies, have been either shoveled to who knows where, or have been blown away until who knows when.:(

Hence the saying goes 'what you see is what you get'.:)

[KH EE]

don't 4get the "twin towers" that was supposed 2 b built by YCS as their corporate HQ @ the Giant traffic light along jln kewajipan. wat's happening? :confused:

[tnn]

yep!

it's funny that the YAPs already have a bad reputation about the twin towers at USJ 1 but yet, got approval for Rhythm Avenue, Newgate & the one in Serdang (All under MPSJ jurisdiction & in a very short span of time!)

what does our MP & ADUN got to say?? cannot do anything? is this what our BN stands for?

[KH EE]

Read somewhere that someone complained that our YB LHB was in cahoots with the yaps abt rhytem avenue project.:o

[Mason]

Aiyaaaa... make first then sell..lah.

No cheating then no ecomonic crisis/downturn.

Simple layman rule of economics!

MP and ADUN pls. put a stop to this before matters become worse and people end up working for the banks!!!.

Hope you get the message.

[Cool Hand Luke]

I am perturbed as to how every issue can become a political issue. Incredible. I am pondering whether I can blame some politicians for me losing my job or for my cat being eaten by the neighbour's dog.

[Mason]

Well..CHL

U tell me what's the issue that a politican handles? Why should we elect them?

Well as for you cat, sorry, even this issue the owner can't handle it well!!.

[jericho]

there always bound to be some kind of conspiracy theoreis around whenever things turned bad....

[topguru]

if u think this is bad - wait after the elections as there are more such projects planned in Subang despite claims the last time that no further serviced apartments would be approved.

after this elections monies need to be regrouped and what better way but by quickie projects which will be later abandoned and purchasers royally screwed like in the Rhythm & newgate Apartments in USJ19 & 22 where despite various promises and claims nothing has been done except certain pockets of decision makers filled during the approval stages.

but what can we do - its the YBs & their machais who are smiling all the way to their banks!

[orchipalar]

Hi Topguru :) - At the height of the sales compaign by Advangarde or Hiap Aik for RythmAvenue & Newgate, we learnt that quite many of these service apartments/shoplots were sold on contra basis with their owings to their previous n present creditors from cumulative failed projects elswhere.

We were almost suckered into 'contra' for one each of these apartments n shoplots, being promised 'good values' for our would be investment. They had planned for a 'bintang' walk type of environment with the commercial units. Carrefour was even targeted as one of the major rental clients.

We also understood that by them 'living' off from huge banks' loan facilities, they would not have the means in mind to complete these buildings projects, when the economic table was turned against their 'eating' habits, after the banks put a tight squeeze on their further planned projects' borrowings.

What happened in between, we'ren't so sure, but this we know, a huge amount of the project funds from the banks was siphon off to the major company owners for their own intentions n purposes.

We are not good in this kind of things, we could be wrong also, but just take a look at the now Hiap Yik's corporate building cum storage yard at the opposite of USJ 3C, we could not help but wonder, the 'private' funds for the costs of that completed property, could have been utilized to complete RythmAvenue.

IF they wanted n willing to of course.:rolleyes:

[cskok8]

The only way to prevent yourself from being a victim of abandoned projects is to buy only completed properties. That way what you see is what you get. When you buy these dreams in the sky (new launches) you are financing the project. If everything goes well, you get your house (although the quality may be horrendous) and the developer make money. If it get abandoned you lose your money and the developer gets away scot-free. Most architects will certify completion ahead of actual work so when the developers have collected 60% they may have actually done only 50% of the work.
If you want to know more about the problems that housebuyers are facing log on to www.hba.org.my (House Buyers' Association)

[orchipalar]

Hi Cskok8:) - TQ for a good pointer, which was why me n me wife decided to move into USJ 2. Although the house was neglected or ill maintained, after what we got the reno guys 'went' over it, voila:rolleyes: we have a decent home now.

But one particular problem being buying 2nd houses being that the banks are not so keen to offer max. loan facilities, hence, a would be housebuyer would have to fork out more initial cash:) Then there is the paperworks hassles, more infact compares to if one is buying a new property.

One good point is we got to do the 'window' shopping for the house of our likings leisurely, rather than flocking in frantic crowd over new launches.:p

[tnn]

oh, i wud luv to get a completed property in USJ but they are really mighty pricey,aren't they? especially the ones done by reputable developers or else i may have to move further north, Kelantan,maybe?

but then, i dun wan to line up separately at the supermarket or stop wearing lipstick!

[KH EE]

maybe get our incoming mp (bn or keadilan) to lobby parliament 2 make it compulsory 4 developers 2 complete their properties b4 selling them, like what was done in bdr utama, i think.:o

[cskok8]

KH Ee, you must be dreaming. Our caring minister still says the housing industry is not mature enough to be able to implement this build then sell concept. Therefore the only way is for us comsumers to force it on them. Simply do not buy any new property till it is ready. Do not be afraid that there will not be a house for you to buy. It is better to rent first then pay for an abandoned project.

[KH EE]

zzzzzzz... must sleep 1st to dream.... zzzzzz...

still, is it a valid agenda for the incoming MP's?

[kwchang]

A different topic had arisen within this thread. It had nothing related to abandoned projects.

In order to maintain order and development of the thread, I have taken the liberty to split the other issue, which debated on what the opposition can do, out to a new thread. Read it at http://www.usj.com.my/bulletin/upload/showthread.php?threadid=4562

[Firefly]

Originally posted by orchipalar
Hi Topguru :) - At the height of the sales compaign by Advangarde or Hiap Aik for RythmAvenue & Newgate, we learnt that quite many of these service apartments/shoplots were sold on contra basis with their owings to their previous n present creditors from cumulative failed projects elswhere.

We were almost suckered into 'contra' for one each of these apartments n shoplots, being promised 'good values' for our would be investment. They had planned for a 'bintang' walk type of environment with the commercial units. Carrefour was even targeted as one of the major rental clients.

We also understood that by them 'living' off from huge banks' loan facilities, they would not have the means in mind to complete these buildings projects, when the economic table was turned against their 'eating' habits, after the banks put a tight squeeze on their further planned projects' borrowings.

What happened in between, we'ren't so sure, but this we know, a huge amount of the project funds from the banks was siphon off to the major company owners for their own intentions n purposes.

We are not good in this kind of things, we could be wrong also, but just take a look at the now Hiap Yik's corporate building cum storage yard at the opposite of USJ 3C, we could not help but wonder, the 'private' funds for the costs of that completed property, could have been utilized to complete RythmAvenue.

IF they wanted n willing to of course.:rolleyes:

I am also one of the many suckers of the above mentioned USJ landmarks. Since Hiap Yik is the developer (or the co behind the developtment) is it not possible to sieze the assets and use it to complete the 2 projects? Are the Laws of Malaysia so weak in this aspect?

[KH EE]

sorry firefly, hiap aik's listing has been taken over by lebar daun berhad. as 2 its assets, who knows? maybe contact MSEB (formerly KLSE) 4 more.:)

[orchipalar]

Hi Firefly:) - We like the nick, but we're sorry for your predicament. Believe us in this case, we sympatize how you would feel about being short changed n abandoned by whole mess of Hiap Yik, YCS, n Avangarde or whatever form of companies they do their unethical biz with.:p

What we did instead of their proposed suckered 'contra' deals, which they're trying to pin us with at the time didn't work, but still it has caused us some anguish.:(

Now which ever entity that has taken over the whole mess, is trying to ask us to settle for only bits n pieces of what the ex. companies were indebted with us.

We didn't settled for it, thinking with the kinds of money they're talking, we might as well fight til the end, n hopefully see to it that they would not have it as easy as they would have wished for.:p

This however, is not our point to stress, what we hope to stress is that the nation's leaders called for privatizations n set traps with Second Board listings of fictitious or worthless political BERHADs corporations, were robbing our nation's wealth for their personal gains rather than for the general public's equities.

Taking advantage of the narrow minded n foolish investors private or otherwise, coupled with non-existance of proper monitoring n enforcement in the laws to protect house/property buyers, these corporates such as Hiap Yik/YCS/Avangarde, n plenty of others so called property developers n construction companies n land developers, were allowed to get away with Billions of tax n rate payers monies.:mad:

Even more sickening is the fact that these corporates' major owners/shareholders, are still untouched n unaffected, n be allowed to go scot free, maintaining n living their lives as if nothing has happened, n no one was hurt, or they are owning the darn nation.:o

Still we got stucked with them politicians hooting "Malaysia Boleh":p

[cskok8]

Most big developers use a wholly owned subsidiary which is a Sdn Bhd to undertake individual projects. So if you want to seize all its assets you are most welcome (the paid up capital can range from RM 2 (DUA) to RM 100,000. This is how the big boys shield themselves from any legal action and financial responsibility.

[Firefly]

So how else are we suppose to fight than what is listed in YB Dato' Lee's web site?

Hard earn $$ are already gone and the Loaning Bank is not reducing anything nor is it giving any consession to the repayment.

What I understand is that RythmAvenue is being taken over and the project may be restarted but this will take years!!!

[CASSA318]

There has been several interesting views expressed here.

But, just let me recap on behalf our President and Legal Adviser Dr. Jacob George to say that over 450 purchasers of both abandoned Rhythm & Newgate Service apartment purchasers have taken this matter to court in a multi prong legal action.
(The first of its kind!)

To date, there has been interesting developments, twist and turns, and we expect more on the way, which includes, the Commercial Crime Division and the ACA moving in soon.

Several banks have already discussed with CASSA a form of 'freeze' on interest payments till this matter is settled by legal proceedings - and we thank these banks for cooperating with CASSA on this matter, while several others have had suits filed against them, as well!

CASSA believes by the 2nd week of April 2004, we may have some interesting breakthroughs and developments to consider - God Willing!

But, we feel really sorry for those who to date have yet to be represented or have taken any form of legal action based on the telephone calls received on our hotline.

We advise you to seek advice from your family solicitors on this matter without any further delay.

Tuan Rahmatuallah
f CASSA SECRETARIAT
CASSA HOTLINE: 016-3122442

[achee]

Achee went to Carrefour the other day and there is this new development coming up called "e-tiara". Not that tempted to buy but did looked at it closely. Starting at +/- RM150k for a 1+1 unit(617sq ft).......wow! what a price!!

What came across Achee's mind was Rhythm & Newgate(R&N). Just like R&N, e-tiara is a service apartment, built on a freehold land having a commercial title. Again, please be warned that a property which is being built on a commercial parcel, purchasers will not be protected under the housing act.

Achee not saying that this project is going to fail, but remember, R&N were not built to fail either. R&N was even listed under RCI (Timeshare exchange) as one of their exchange resort!! Very flowery eh!!

Just wondering, can someone check this developer, NPO Development SDN BHD (TITIJAYA GROUP), and who are the people behind it. For all you know, it's another venture by YCS.......!!!!!!! Nowadays, be careful of what we purchase.

[orchipalar]

Hi Achee:) - This is another good post by Achee, thanks for the early warning.:)

Maybe someone could run a company search or run the company's name n registration number with CTOS, the results could be known easily.

Like we mentioned before, YCS is named after the founder of the company in Malacca at the time, then his siblings 'sold' the father himself away to bumiputra equities or whatever they call it.:p

YCS or not, since you mentioned that this property is a commercial one, forget it.

Like our good neighbours suggested, invest in one which is completed n proven in its management.:)

[tnn]

sometimes, it's not so easy to get the info you want from a company search. they may put in their nominees (normal, unknown people instead i.e. wife's relatives, friends etc)

think it's better to just buy a completed project. hopefully it's just not too pricey.

hey,what about that project undertaken by MPSJ, endorsed by our ADUN that came out in the papers months back?

it's apartments, 2 blocks with facilities. prices from 110K to 160K?

[Mason]

Good views guys/gals keep it up..

I would like to share an incident that happened recently in J.B. My relative was at this show unit that showcases the apartment that was to be built in an area around J.B. He was happy with the apartment and when on to sign the booking fees and other related documents.

Later, he received documents from the developer about the project in detail and his dad went through it throughly only to find out that there is a clause stating that the actual apartment build may not look the same as seen in the show unit and the developer has the right to change the internal layout of the units and if necessary without the consent of the purchaser!!!.

They made an complain and is now fighting for the refund of the booking fees paid.

Have you guys read similiar clause?

I will put in the details of the rpoject when I get them from my friend.

[pywong]

One solution to consider is to buy a piece of land. You can build up to 4 units without a developer's license. Of course, the facilities may not be as good as in a housing estate. But it will work out to be cheaper and you can have a say in the final design. Land is not that expensive in KL or PJ contrary to what we think. I recently bought a piece in Ulu Kelang for slightly more than RM30/sq. ft. Beautiful view right above the zoo. 6000 sq. ft will cost $200k, throw in another $400 k for a house and bingo! You have a bungalow for less than $600k. For that money, you can just get a single-storey semi-D in Subang Jaya. My neighbour sold his for more than $500k!

Read Robert Kiyosaki's books. You can get many good ideas there.

[orchipalar]

Hi pyWong:) - That would be a good idea, but we think the hassles of paperworks is unimaginable. Since you're in the biz, that shouldn't be a problem.:cool:

Yes, building one's own home is cheaper, there is no doubt about it. Some established developers today normally have land lots allocated for this kind of trend, plus they would have another support group to handle the inconveniences, architects, interior designers, for the potential buyer to consider also.:)

Yes, we see your point also about paying too much for our home now. The one that we are got in USJ2 ++ reno n furnishing was tagged for 480k, n would be burning our pockets for next 20 odd years to come.:D

N by the time we're finished with the loans hopefully, we get to be around 66. :(

P/S - pyWong - 'Rich Dad Poor Dad', heard so much about this book, maybe we should get a copy of it. We misundertood the title though. We got a friend in Kuantan who could have misunderstood the real meaning as he had his dinghy marked on its side 'Not My Dad's Money'.:D

[pywong]

Orchipalar,

High price of houses due to:
1. Mainly statutory requirements as well as privatised monopolies' requirements:
a. Land conversion and holding cost arising from slow approval of conversion and building plan.
b. Facilities such as water, electricity, telephone, sewerage, roads, drains, flood detention ponds.
c. Non-Bumiputras to cover discount provided to Bumiputras
d. Schools, fire station, police station, community halls, town council building (not sure paid for or not), market, playground
e. Limited land in urban area of sufficient size for large scale housing development.
f. Corruption: This is a very large hidden cost that is very difficult to quantify.

When you buy a piece of land, you will have paid for the above.

I have some ideas on how to reduce the prices but it will more appropriate in a political forum. Check out Keadilan's website. I have drafted some policy papers for them and the webmaster was supposed to have put it up.

Robert Kiyosaki:
He has written a series of books that are quite readable and simple to understand. His second book, Cashflow Quadrant, is a bit heavy going but if you are patient, you can learn quite a bit from it.

One of the key points he made is that we must learn to think out of the box. Not to accept conventional wisdom as the gospel truth. The majority is not always right. Once you change your lenses, things start to look very different. But you must take action. Thinking about it is not enough.

Maybe 5 years down the road, you will come back and tell me "$600k for a house, no sweat!":D I hope you will find it in you to make the necessary change. Good luck. :)

[robertec]

Just a little side track.

With the recent price increase in building materials, I have noticed that some enterprising guys are taking the opportunity to remove steel bars and the likes from both of the abandoned projects in the middle of the night.

Who knows, at the rate they are going, there may not be much left, to refer to as being abandoned landmarks.

[joker2107]

Later, he received documents from the developer about the project in detail and his dad went through it throughly only to find out that there is a clause stating that the actual apartment build may not look the same as seen in the show unit and the developer has the right to change the internal layout of the units and if necessary without the consent of the purchaser!!!.
mason, by now u should hv known that all marketing documents used by those in the real estate biz employ the same clause in different words, eg architect's impression only ... that's a whole lot of bull, and i verily doubt our legal system (whatever u think of it) will give it more value than the "bank reserve the right to alter and revise any of the rules".
my best wishes for yr relative. i'd appreciate it if u could also update us on the outcome.

for all the talk of high prices of property, i think the major fault lies in the greedy "investor". its so unfathomable for a double storey link house to cost more than half a mil. how much more could it go, i used to ask myself. well, its 750k in sri hartamas. very soon nobody wud want them cos a bukit tunku or ukay hts or u-thant bungalow will cost only about 20% more. do some simple calc - just how much does the buyer need to earn to afford a proerty costing over 500k, that too with renovations cost yet to be added on. the current low interest rates r a great help, but it will probably be another 3 to 5 yrs b4 rates will eliminate this advantage. i still see the bank's willingness to disburse such loans as asking 4 trouble. buyers, developers, real estate agents, developers, as an artificial bait to boost the property mkt (and their current) lending portfolio. wait till a couple of buyers decide not to service the loans - then it will be glory be....

[pywong]

There are many good ideas in Robert Kiyosaki's books on real estate. It is a very good investment to buy some of them. Among the more popular ones are:
1. Rich Dad Poor Dad,
2. Cashflow Quadrant
3. Rich Dad's Guide to Investing
4. Success Stories

plus a few others that I have not read yet.

Suggest that you play his Cashflow 101 game also.

Relax. I don't get any commission from Robert Kiyosaki for promoting him. Read the 1st book and decide for yourself.

One of the most important lesson I got from the book was this:

Success in business is a statistic. Do not expect your 1st business to succeed. Only 1 in 5 or even 1 in 10 businesses will succeed. But if you get that one success, it will be enough to carry you to financial independence.

During the financial crisis in 1997, that gave me the courage to carry on.

Wisdom starts with knowledge. As joker has rightly pointed out, don't allow yourself to be panic and rushed into buying a house that you would regret later.