Enough is Enough

[Cool Hand Luke]

A particular thread here is deeply offensive to women in particular and decent human beings in general. As a friend of Canny Ong, I urge the person not even to mention her name in the same breath as other comments (twisted justification and sheer hypocrisy) made by him. You insult her memory, insult all the women out there and insult forum members. I have heard about freedom of speech but I have also been told that freedom of speech comes with responsibility. Let good sense and decency prevails. Thank you.

[vceg]

He's doing it just to see the responses of the forumers here.

Whether he is doing it for the attention, only he knows.

Whether he really believes the views he is putting forward, only he knows.

I think he gets a big kick out of all the responses he has been getting from his posts.

I think he thinks long and hard for the next topic to get the most possible response whether good or bad (preferable bad).

Just ignore if we think that it is not even worth the time for us to type a response. He will eventually lose the "fun" he's been getting.

[Cool Hand Luke]

I received a lot of suggestions about this. Can we all please stop replying to all of his threads?. And I mean all; past, current and future. Of course, the choice is yours if you want to encourage him.

[kwchang]

Early this morning, Dr_Luv posted a thread with the topic of "A Rapist's Fantasy"

This was done pretty distastefully and elicited many open complaints which we reproduce below in its entirety minus Dr_Luv's comments...

simon_tan
10-12-2003 08:26 PM
<quote>
Offensive and not funny
please delete.
</quote>

left side hung
10-12-2003 11:06 PM
<quote>
dr luv, this isn't about thinking out of the box. you should understand that this mentality belongs only to the uncivlized.
no, that would be an insult to jungle people. this is sick. i'm not digusted about thinking about the box, i'm digusted at the idea itself, there is a difference.
how can a man possibly blame an indecent act on the way a woman is dressed? i mean, if he somehow cant, his stupidity makes me sick to my core. i'm not even going to talk about how down right pathetic the man must be. people who think along these lines are a constant reminder that malaysia will never be a developed nation.
let me put it this way, if you had a much nicer, larger car than i did, would it be your fault for "instigating" me, causing me to break into your house and then stealing your car?
* most rapists only rape women they know well, only the minority risk raping a stranger.
</quote>

Joecool
11-12-2003 08:33 AM
<quote>
The way someone dress is not an invitation for rape. People who have been very decently dressed including those wearing the tudung has been raped. So what is your point?
</quote>

Left 4th Finger
11-12-2003 10:04 AM
<quote>
"Eye of newt, and toe of frog,
Wool of bat, and tongue of dog,
Adder's fork, and blind-worm's sting,
Lizard's leg, and howlet's wing,--
For a charm of powerful trouble,
Like a hell-broth boil and bubble."
</quote>

Hspace
11-12-2003 11:49 AM
<quote>
dr_luv,
You're weird. From your questions, you're also not that old are you. Also, your sig, "Mess with me and die like the rest".....?
1) Because biology makes them horny, and they think they can own what is not theirs
2) Unfortunately, basic human nature is whenever someone tells you that you can't own it, the more you want it.
3) Whoever says that looking at a sexily-dressed woman does not make you horny is lying. Yes, education about right and wrong, the worth of a woman and how you can morally satiate or control your sex drive, are solutions.
Did you raise this issue one too many times, tough boy? People are beginning to get pissed. Get a productive hobby, and your mind off sex until you get married.
</quote>

Administrator's note
For the health of the community and due respect to all concerned, especially the ladies, this action has to be taken. We did not remove his thread immediately as we wanted to get feedback. All the responses were spontaneous and unsolicited.

We thank you for your patience.

[empress_julz]

kwchang, i do not understand why you even need our "feedback" with these issues.

note the topic was a "rapists' fantasy", not "why rape happens" or "the causes of rape", but a "rapists' fantasy". it was clearly to fuel his sick mind. he wanted the responses.

worst case scenario? he wants to rape and he wants to find a justification to rape, hence the question about whether it's "okay" if the woman was scantily clad.

all his threads have been about violence towards women. he has mentioned canny ong and noritta, and put their attackers in a positive light.

even the threads that start of innocent, end up being tainted. always sex, sex, sex, sex. and note, he always had the answers or a view, he was just playing our minds to see how he can twist. he is not as dumb as one thinks.

he is a sick SOB who has rape fantasies.

he has threatened forum members before.

what do you need our feedback about?

leaving his posts there for responses (which he knows he'll get) is just fuelling his fantasies. he is a sick man who enjoys the violence not only from the point of view of the act itself, but the disgust and outrage society gives him.

why allow him to fuel his fantasies?

personally if he is not banned i really have to reconsider the standards of this forum and what is really *acceptable*.

as was mentioned, this forum is supposed to be *safe* for younger people. it is supposed to be "safe" for the older people too, but can we even say that now?

and for the individual who put him in a positive light and championed him.... congratulations, you can now be held in the same regard as this monster.

///ej

[empress_julz]

my honest "guess"?

this guy is calculative. he has come in here as a "normal" member, surveyed the situation in this forum, and decided it's the perfect place for him to wreack havoc.

hence, he deviates from his usual nick, his alter ego self comes out and annoys the hell out of all.

it's only natural, that's how these people work.

i'm not surprised if he truly has split personality disorder. normal in real life, but a devious mind at home. hence he comes on the cyberworld for his kicks.

i really hope he gets some help before he hurts himself or others.

ps..... he does not live in sierramas, he is a usj resident. (his "202...." i.p. clearly says so) my guess is, at the outer rims of usj, possibly usj 3. he is a pathological liar.

///ej

[jericho]

Kwchang and co. did the right thing to get others feedback before taking action in order not to be accused as being biased later on. Gather other forumer views and decide the next course of action upon the feedback received will no doubt cause DrLuv to have no reason to accuse Kwchang of being biased again like what he did in the other thread.

I would like to suggest a further step, to ban DrLuv and the person behind him if in future DrLuv keeps posting similar distasteful and offensive topic/comment in this Forum. The duration of the ban is up to KwChang and co. to decide.

I believe some of us here are aware who is the 'person' behind DrLuv.

[Joecool]

How does an IP address starting with 202.x.x.x indicates someone is from USJ 3? I really like to know this. The IP address of 202.75.160.230 belongs to MAXISNET which means he could use it anywhere in Malaysia.

[kwchang]

Jericho,
Thanks for your understanding and stating the obvious.

However, let us not limit this to the current nick in question. If we decide to BAN, we will do it regardless who it may be.

[Joecool]

I have edited my post for clarity. I am referring to EJ's post which insinuated that the IP address used meant he is staying at USJ probably USJ 3. I stay at USJ 3.

[jericho]

Right, kwchang. Anyone found to be offensive and post distasteful topic/comment should be BAN.

[Cool Hand Luke]

Joecool - Calm down. :) Nothing to get agitated about. EJ may have other other evidence beside the IP to indicate that our good friend is in USJ3.

[Joecool]

The point I am trying to make is not that I am the one. I am typing this while in my office in KLCC. No where near USJ 3. I did a search based on the IP address and it belongs to MAXIS and it was registered while MAXIS was still in Subang HiTech. So what she said about him not staying at Sierra based on his IP address is not true. I am really calm. Not to worry.

[empress_julz]

joecool no one said it is you lah, i think we all know that well enough.

CHL is right, i have other info up my sleeves. and it does not take a genius to find these things, i think other forum members have as well. he was intelligent enough to leave a trail online, including a name that can be followed up.

and as a future precaution, you should not state where you work, where you live, where you sent your kids to school, personal information as such. that is dangerous and the information can be used against you.

and especially your full name. never ever use your full name in public forums. jumbling it up does not do much.

as we know this guy is amongst proof that not everyone is "stable".

even jericho "knows", a lot of people do... i think that's why he's so quiet now, maybe?

logically, does anybody think he is that stupid to give out his house address? read his posts, he is cocky, but not stupid. and that's probably why he pulled out the entire thread directed towards CHL and me, because word got around that we went to the authorities.

///ej

[dr_luv]

Sincere apologies to all members of the forums

Well, here I am feeling rather bad about some things I said a few weeks ago concerning both woman and members of forum. No, I'm not trying to get back into the good graces of Forum - but I would like to offer my apologies to rest of the forum members and those those who got offended because my thread. and I feel it's time to let go of my way and make a sincere apology sincere apology to the posters on this forum for my rude, arrogant, behavior, being jerk and obnoxious.

I've displayed an unjustified attitude of superiority towards others, and in general, acted as if I were somehow special and intelliegent.

This is a great place and I'd like to take the black marks off my face so please accept my apologies.

I have no right to criticize 'everyone especially woman in general ', nor do I have the right to scold other posters for some imagined breach of 'respect' and indecent.

Again, I want to apologize and ask that the people I've treated so unfairly to forgive me for my trespasses.

May You All Have A Wonderfull Christmas Full With Warm Loving Feelings and Happy New Year.

[empress_julz]

why the sudden change of heart dr luv?

my father told me about men like you dr luv.

men who tell stories to fit the situation. men who will smile to get something out of you, the minute you turn your back they stab.

men who are sick in the head and who enjoy manipulating people and watching others suffer.

i have no doubt you have no remorse. you're just saying what fits the moment.

like when you said you were a "kid" so you could get away with asking those sick sex questions. pervert.

and the way you pulled that whole thread out when things got too steamy after threatening death on forum members.

and all that rubbish on noritta and canny ong. you're sick, sick, sick, sick.

you have lied so many times i do not trust your "sincere apologies". even if you're telling the truth, i don't care to take it. we are all adults - when one proves the kind of person they are, they don't get second chances. you got more than that here and you continued to flaunt it.

so excuse me, but i do not want your christmas wishes.

certainly not from a man with rape fantasies whose expressed wanting to put a bullet in my head when he gets the chance.

sick.

///ej

[empress_julz]

http://home.datawest.net/esn-recovery/artcls/socio.htm

Glibness/Superficial Charm

Manipulative and Conning

Grandiose Sense of Self

Pathological Lying

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt

Shallow Emotions

Incapacity for Love

Need for Stimulation

Callousness/Lack of Empathy

Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature

Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency

Irresponsibility/Unreliability

Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity

Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle

Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility

Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them

Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them

Authoritarian

Secretive

Paranoid

Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired

Conventional appearance

Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)

Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim's life

Has an emotional need to justify their crimes

Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim

Incapable of real human attachment to another

Unable to feel remorse or guilt

Extreme narcissism and grandiose

///ej

[kwchang]

Dr_Luv,

We are all glad that you are at least able to come up with a public apology. We shall see how the rest of the members of the Forum take it.

I must say that despite all the nastiness, this episode had demonstrated the importance of etiquette on the Internet. More so on a public Forum like this where your comments are frozen for all to see.

In the meantime, Dr_Luv, do find a more decent avartar and a nicer signature.

[Cool Hand Luke]

The person in question is playing a smart mind game. If we do not accept his apology, it paints us in a bad light as unforgiving people. There are times when one must not answer a question but look beyond the nature of the question. I am doing that now. I am curious as to why the person is so anxious to be back in the forum. In almost all cases, the person would have left. The second point is that person has apologised before and after a few days, he reverted back to his old ways. But I believe the most damning of all has been the creation of threads which were offensive to women and men in general. Nobody in the right mind would start something on a Rapist's Fantasy. It was gross indecency of the worst kind. The intention to cause disharmony, discord and disgust in the forum was apparent.

All that being said, I answer his apology with a question instead of an answer. My question is - Is he laughing at us when he typed the apology? I am not an absolute expert in reading texts to determine the psychological profile of the writer but I did have some training. I have a suspicion that the apology was not even sincere. You may want to ask why I know about it. Simple. When a person apologises, it is usually with remorse and shame and he would keep his apology to the minimal without all the negative adjectives to run himself down. It does not 'jive' with the profile of the person.

That is my opinion as a single forum member. You all have your own opinions and I am sure the administrators have their own views to this. I do not think my opinions are important there. As for me, I am moving on. I am an old man and I have less years on earth than you good people and I do not intend to spend them thinking about the person who is of neither any significance nor importance to me. I am looking forward to my Christmas holidays. And yes, indeed, I think I am in the position to wish all of you a blessed Christmas and a happy New Year.

:)

[empress_julz]

you profiled him well CHL. did you do psychology? i did criminal psychology. it really helps with understanding the mind.

from my understanding he is a classic sociopath. he definitely would like to have a following of some kind, failing that he will mock and taunt to hell and back. he loves the power he has beyond the computer screen, people are unable to read him and know for sure whether he is laughing or laughing his head off as he types.

and he lies. he is such a compulsive liar he'd lie about his whereabouts and the fact that he's "a kid". he asks those stupid questions on brands of condoms to portray himself as an innocent child looking for some sex education, when he is clearly a grown man, possibly in his mid twenties to early forties.

and he is clearly not rich. i'm quite sure of that. he is an underachiever and probably lives off his parent's wealth or whatever he can scrape for himself.

his *second* apology? insincere for sure. remember the last time he apologised just to take the heat off himself? so that he could not be banned and allowed back.

kwchang, you give people too much credit. i'm quite sure that he has played us once again. he's probably laughing at how easy it is to manipulate and get away with murder on this forum. just play the sad pussy cat and whine and say "sorry".

i'm quite sure this guy has been back here as a "normal" member to survey the situation. he sure posts like he knows the ups and downs of the place.

what do you think of that analogy CHL (and others) ?

CHL.... i don't think people would paint anyone in a bad light for not forgiving this guy's repeated, stupid, condascending, insulting, violent, nonsense. this is not kindergarten, we are adults. that "sorry sorry" stuff is confined to child play.

and i ask myself, would my father want me to forgive a man like that and make him my "friend"? the answer is a flat out NO.

///ej

[romi_o]

hi all... not been online since the last thread incident...

hmm, seems that no one follow my advice during the last thread... and see...:eek: now what have u all made?? frankenstein... or whatever monster lah...:) anyway, do have to agree that sometimes ppl took for granted when they are given too much freedom... just ignore those, cos' there are always more ppl out there....
EJ, let him go lah, don't spoil ur mood/health condition (u seems to be a "heart-attack" patient in making:D ) over this, y don't we just joing CHL at casablanca for a drink or 2, CHL??

and yes, i think this is enough....

[empress_julz]

hi all... not been online since the last thread incident...

maybe if you had been you'd be able to objectively assess the situation like the rest of us.

CHL and i are not stressed at all. on the contrary.

but we do feel it is important to speak out against people who condone rape and violence, who have singled out victims and championed their assailants.

i feel this is the minimal respect we can give them for their sufferring, to speak out and protest those who taint their memory.

///ej

[romi_o]

hmm, just noticed the signature... hehe, better still, think i'm going to change to "mess with the best, d** like the rest..." how's that?
really headache just to read this thread.... leaving!! CHL, EJ, can we go have a drink at casablanca?? ;)

[vsat]

"Good evening, Clarice."
You fly back to school now, little Starling.
Fly, fly, fly. Fly, fly, fly.

[empress_julz]

what the f*** you trying to say vsat?

///ej

[vsat]

Excuse me, but what's with the vulgarities...here u are trying to advocate people to be decent on the forum but u are spewing vulgarities.
I don't get it. Did I say something wrong?

[empress_julz]

i'm sorry, but i self censored, didn't i?

you talk about the word "F***" being bad. sorry, people don't die when they have sex.

but quoting hannibal lecter in a thread dedicated to slamming violence, rape and murder notably against women....

what positive light are you trying to portray such acts of violence?

now that i explained myself, please explain what you were trying to say by quoting hannibal lecter.

///ej

[vsat]

What is so bad about posting Dr Lecter's quote to play down the thread. Everybody's talking about criminal pyschology and I was trying to calm things down.
If posting Dr Lecter's quote is unagreeable, I don't know what is. And that quote was to ask Starling to do more research. What's so voilent about that?
Self censored??? Don't even try to defend that.
Listen, I do not want to argue. All I did was to post a quote from the popular movie "Silence Of The Lambs" since everybody was talking about Criminal Behaviour and that movie was based on the achievements of criminal behaviour. To cool things down.
I seriously did not expect this.

[empress_julz]

quoting hannibal lecter, a man who was based on a real life killer, who eats his victims and stores their bodyparts away, is supposed to calm people down?

you have a twisted way of humour, but note....it is insensitive and rude.

on another note, i think you're trying to intimidate people. it does look like that to me.

no one posts quotes from serial killers to try to calm people down.

possibly i (and maybe others) dont take it so well because there are people out there who are getting killed by psychos.

your "joke" was not funny.

///ej

[Cool Hand Luke]

Vsat - You didn't expect to get a reaction? Are you really that innocent and naive? Perhaps you are. I give you THAT benefit of doubt even though I do not believe it. We have just ended one situation and all of us have enough of it. Get it into your head that it is time to stop it. We do not need another (or same) trouble maker in this forum. You have nothing better to say except to intimidate people with quotations from Lector? You know that it was tasteless and inappropriate at this time. Can I request that the different split personalities and yourself to end it here and move on? Thank you.

[vsat]

Billy Crystal, as host of the 1991/2 Academy Awards came out on a strecther and mask ala Dr Lecter. All the guest laughed, stood up and applauded. It was done in good humour.

Cool Hand Luke is based on a movie with prison fights, titillating scene of a sexy teenage girl and demeaning insult to Christ in it's ending.

All I did was a harmless quote. And you guys burst it out of proportion.

I really wanna move on but I'm being wrongfully accused.
I can't give my opinion eventhough it's not laced with vulgarities and now I can't quote from infamous movies.
I live in USJ 14 for crying out loud.

[empress_julz]

well vsat this is the second time you have come up with a statement that is compulsive, irresponsible and insensitive.

when billy crystal did it at the academy awards, the setting was different. this thread is pertaining comments from an unsavourable character about violence and murder, and he was dead serious.

like you said it was done in good humour. this was not. the mood was sombre. it's like going to a funeral and cracking jokes about people dying.

///ej

[Cool Hand Luke]

Vsat - You have a peculiar and weird sense of humour. Including adding your comment to the news report of the murder in Sri Hartamas. Jericho and Joker told you off. And Chang asked you to apologize and you have not done so, showing absolutely no remorse or regret. In fact, it was your grossly insenstive remark which triggered off a lot of controversy in the forum. I say it again - you sure have a weird sense of humour. I wonder if you do the same in real life.

[vsat]

Dear all,

Regarding the Sri Hartamas murder, I was merely trying to give the message that young women shouldn't be out with so many partners as complications might arise. From the various news report, it all indicated so. Hopefully, young female teenagers will read our forum and learn that one shouldn't be reckless with other people's heart. What is the point discussing about the murder in Sri Hartamas without anything conclusive at the end?
Would you rather have a discussion on the case which ends :

"Oh yes, it was a tragic incident. We have lots of psychos out there and rapist, etc. They should be jailed for life"

Or

"Hey, there were elder guys involved, posh place, no forced entry. You know what, college girls, teenage girls, don't be having 2-3 boyfriends at a time coz who knows something bad might happen to you"

It's just like Say No To Drugs campaign. They tell you the consequences of using or trying drugs. They don't say "Drugs are bad" and full stop.

[Cool Hand Luke]

I think all of us in general - and at least five in particular, Jericho, Joker, Chang, EJ and I - would rather that you did not add your inappropriate comment at the end of the news flash. Your comment was tasteless. All of us agreed to that. How often do you get a forum member being asked to apologize for a comment made in the forum? Almost never. And yet it happened in your case. Now you are trying to reason by saying "hopefully, young female teenagers will read our forum and learn that one shouldn't be reckless with other people's heart". You are making a horrendous judgement on a murdered girl. Only you would know whether you meant it when you said you hoped female teenagers would learn from your six-word remark. A bit far fetched.

Anyway - I am not here to argue with you. You are of no consequence to me; same as Dr Luv. Would you be kind enough to stop this nonsense and I give you my word that I will not bring this subject up again?

[vsat]

I really meant what I said.

[dr_luv]

And I come to You

In tears I knock Your door

I slipped and sinned, and in wickedness

My heart as with a sword

Bleeds for the sin I had

When someone comes and does me wrong

Forgive them, and make me strong

Forgive them, for I am sometimes wrong

Forgive me, forgive them, O my friends.

[empress_julz]

vsat.... we know you meant what you said, and that's why we do not hold your opinion in such high regard.

CHL is right. you should not be commenting on other people's lifestyles, especially after they have been killed. that is not only bigotry, it is worse.

even if she was a prostitute, she did not deserve to die. you cannot have that attitude and question the person's lifestyle and say at the end of it that "they sort of asked for it". it's either you mean to say they do or they don't.

judging by it, you're saying politely that she asked for it.

if i was a woman with 3 lovers let's say. and i let one of them in the house. i may be expecting sex, but i certainly am not expecting to be killed. to say she could expect it is even putting men down to such a low level.

it is not the same as your example of taking drugs. let's say one becomes a heroin addict - the expected outcome is addiction that could result in gross degeneration of the body and ultimately, death. that is a definite. it's like driving blind, you will definitely crash into something or someone.

but when a woman keeps the company of a man or numerous men, does that mean that she can anticipate being killed?

once again, that belittles men as well as women.

if you are even in the mood to question and blame her for what had occured to her, you are being judgemental.

tell me vsat, who are you to play judge and jury to what is appropriate? who are you to conclude what kind of lifestyle she led and whether it was a positive one or not?

did you know her in person? or are you just babbling from what you've read in the papers, a lot of which are speculative and have been blasted by her family for being out of line?

that is what we were trying to tell you and what CHL and i are trying to explain to you right now.

a lot of people make mistakes with their lives. how they want to lead it is up to them. but we are no one to judge or say what they deserved or whether they asked for it or not.

all the media has done was *speculated* on her lifestyle. so she had a few boyfriends, some of whom are questionable. which woman out there has not? you mean every guy a woman goes out with should be perfect with no history?

then i think humankind is damned because we've all made mistakes.

it is like going to someone's funeral after they died of cancer and saying "well he deserved it, he smoked too much". even if it was true, do not be surprised if everyone stares at you and puts you in your place for being way out of line.

wrong time, wrong place, wrong words.

the fact that you can still go on and repeatedly post that hannibal lecter nonsense after you were told about the inappropriateness and were asked to apologise goes to show how big a heart you have.

before you judge remember this... christ said "let it he who is without sin cast the first stone". i don't care what religion you are, it is advice that you should take at this point. even the pope with all his glory and piousness would not have said what you did. and you are not the pope.

and *even if* she did lead a questionable lifestyle, she has paid for it with her life. anyone with enough tact would appreciate this and not comment on her past for she has paid the ultimate price.

dr luv.... i don't care for your poem, i don't think anyone does. did you write it yourself? it's not shakespeare.

actions speak louder than words, and you have proven yourself beyond belief. you can't go around talking about rape and murder, canny ong and noritta, shooting down forum members and all the other rot, and then come sing-song and all is well. this is not kindergarten. you want to mess with the wrong people go ahead, you asked for it. but do not be surprised if you get the fight you asked for. you are sorely outnumbered and not so smart.

your ugly avatar and disgusting tagline is distasteful and annoying .... take kwchang's advice and get rid of it. (frankly if i were kwchang i'd get rid of you, i don't know where the man get's his patience from)

as someone you've picked a fight with, your continuing use of that tagline and avatar sends a clear message to me, and i'm sure it does to others here too.

it seems that you still of the opinion that if you're messed with we will "die like the rest"..... if you don't think so, prove it like a man, be humbled and change it.

if you do think so, continue being an ass. but your apology and the use of that tagline is a contradiction and gross hypocrisy. it shows you don't mean what you say, as usual it's all just hot air and you're waiting for the next chance you can spring something sick on us.

if you are so great and have all the glorious guts in the world...... i challenge you to show your face. post your picture on the forum so we can see this big brave man, instead of hiding behind this avatar and cheap threats and crap about living in this nice big house in sierramas.

and just to know it's you, why don't you pose next to your nice remington sniper rifle, the one you wanted to use to shoot CHL and myself with. (yes, i (and others) still have the logs to the pages where you touted your guns)

or, maybe you can disappear and stick to your other more appropriate nick(s), a "normal" one you would usually use.

///ej

[left side hung]

sounds a lot like me, lol. still working on the more charming aspects and lie detectors though.

that said, it looks like it's the ssdd around here.

everyone take care, was nice talking to a few of you.

[Cool Hand Luke]

I have a discussion with quite a number of people from this forum. We all feel that - as the thread says, 'enough is enough'. Let everybody stops right here if they feel that they want to argue on and on. Let's us move on to happier and more productive issues. This is our community forum. Let's work together or we are going to find ourselves in a situation where there would be nobody in the forum for us to even talk to let along argue. I will put 'my money where my mouth is', so to speak, and I will not get involved in any of this nonsense from now onwards. I have better things to do and I am sure you all have as well. Thank you.

:)

[joker2107]

quote :
Sad to see people apologising yet in the same breathe touches not on the subject but every word that leaves the finger tips harps of the virtues of another person. Has God descended upon cybercity?

Anyway, I'm glad that the heat is tapering off and that intelligent questions on the NS were raised herein. It'll make everybody's day to have the govt respond just as intelligently and with absolute impartiality.

Posted by cilipadi at December 13, 2003 12:24 PM
unquote
source : http://www.jeffooi.com/cgi-bin/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=1330

i can't agree fully with chl on taking the thread title literally. i advocate more objective opinions on the subject and more discrete play of court room activities. by all means be the defence attorney or prosecutor. analyse and mesmerize the evidence. but could we leave the final judgement to the judge? and not forget too that even after a court of appeal judgement there is still a supreme court and after that a avenue to seek a review of the judgement?

[Cool Hand Luke]

Joker - When I asked for nonsense to be stopped, that was precisely what I meant. I disagree with you in that "I advocate more objective opinions on the subject and more discrete play of court room activities". In a community forum and for the sake of decency, certain topics should never be posted here let along discrete play of court room activities. Such topics are more meant for some other questionable forums. I believe you know what I mean.

Thank you. :)