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empress_julz
19-11-2003, 03:09 AM
Hi Guys,

A bit of a light topic, but I was just wondering...

Did anyone other than me find the Matrix Revolutions a Sore Dissapointment?

After the way things were developed in part 1 and 2 (minus the long, long, long winded archithect lecture and ugly clips of bush) i really expected a more interesting outcome. I was swearing at myself for spending RM 60 on 2 GSC Gold Cinema tickets to watch that blunder.

My honest view..... the Wachowski brothers took the stunt thing to the extreme. They wanted to push the marketing, their resume, and forgot about the storyline.

Noticed how the Merilvingian has two olives, then three, then one, then god knows... they really messed up the count....

And the part where Bane cut Trinity on the neck... first there's blood, then no blood, then blood....

And that clueless stupid conversation between Neo and The Oracle.....

"Neo: What should I do?
Oracle: You know what to do.
Neo:But how will I know?
Oracle: You'll know.
Neo: But what choice will I make?
Oracle: You'll know what choice you'll have to make.... "

God that was a horrible script.

Anyone with me on this one? Views?

///ej

empress_julz
19-11-2003, 03:14 AM
a more realistic review:

http://www.maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=matrix3

mistakes in the movie:

http://www.moviemistakes.com/film3297

///ej

Timo
19-11-2003, 10:58 AM
EJ, thanks for this discussion as was waiting impatiently for an opportunity to see what other people think about the movie.

I am not sure about other countries, but here in Australia there was a big media hype on it (with most of the cast members staying in Sydney) and most cast members including Hugo Weaving, Keanu Reeves and Jada Pinkett saying that it is a very 'satisfying' movie and all questions would be answered.

Usually I try to limit my expectations of sequels but since the cast members mentioned that I was really hoping for Matrix Revolutions to close the case for me - I do not like open ended movies, I have enough of those kind of situations in real life. Anyway, after watching the movie I have even more questions than I had after Matrix Reloaded, and I had a ton of questions after that one! So my main disappointment was that there was too much fighting and too little closing up on arguments initiated in the first two movies. For example, the lady played my Monica Belucci, I forgot her name (Persephone?), was completely useless, they could have got away without that character easily. Why did they decide to include her?

Does anyone else have many questions or is it just me?

empress_julz
19-11-2003, 12:33 PM
i have a tonne of questions too timo.

the thing you said about persephone was true. they killed her character! and the twins..... they had such a huge role in part 2, they were immortal... then no mention of them at all in part three. so i guess they died? jeez.

part three felt so detached from part 2.

all that crap about the machines...... honestly i think they realised that if they were to put an all-powerful, human crushing fight scene on, they have no way of having neo stop the machines realistically, so they came up with that dumb agent smith hypothesis.

it was so lousy........ what really ticked me off the most was all that hanging in between. i expect my shows to be near perfect.... for instance, i loved 28 days later though it scared me witless.

even morpheus didn't have much to say. he didn't do nuts! it is good his whining about neo being "the one" and all that crap toned down, but wasn't there anything him or link could have said other than the token 5 lines they were given?

///ej

jericho
19-11-2003, 12:51 PM
Have not watch it yet but waiting for the DVD version. In the previous episode, I'm lost in confusion just like the main characters itself. :D

But anyone of you seen the The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers 4-Disc Special Extended DVD Edition. Is it worth it ?

Saw it on the shelf in some DVD/VCD shops in Hong Kong. It is selling for around RM100 bucks. Very tempted to buy. Of course it is original.

I bought the The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring 4 Disc Special Extended DVD Edition from Summit for RM50 and it came with box. The extended edition is close to 3 hours and contain extra scenes not shown on the cinema version. But if you have seen the movie before, you might get sleepy though.

empress_julz
22-11-2003, 06:46 PM
http://www.bbspot.com/News/2003/10/review_matrix_revolutions.html

something very interesting.

geeks arguing about the matrix>

http://forum.hackinthebox.org/viewtopic.php?t=4400&start=30&sid=f95a39849b72c226a2959dfc44bc54fc

though i have to agree with qubex.

///ej

CyberKewl
23-11-2003, 03:31 PM
Check this out:
http://wylfing.net/essays/matrix_revolutions.html

It explains more or less everything in Revolutions. It also has a link explaining the events in Reloaded. Once you read it, you'll probably realise that the movie isn't so bad after all. Many people felt that the movie missed a lot on the storyline but it was merely "hidden" or left for the audience to figure out.

I'd say the movie wasn't too bad but it was definitely not as good as reloaded as a whole (IMHO).

empress_julz
23-11-2003, 04:51 PM
cyberkewl....

cool article.

but i ask you...... did all these facts or at least some of it hit you when you watched it?

in part 2, it did hit most of us. there was a flow and a coherence to it all. however, i don't think that the scripting was good enough in part 3 to warrant that level of depth. it was very chunky bits put together, and although as a whole it did have a flow, it was not a smooth but bumpy ride. sure, there is that logic and i see it. but the pieces put together each have rough edges.

you have to remember than in part 1 and 2 of the matrix, the entire crux of the movie was that humans were machines, plugged into the matrix. there was a lot of talk about code and freeing humans from the matrix.

in part 3 however, the main concern was freeing zion from the machines. fair enough. but what fate lie the humans plugged in? apparently they still live the same in the real world, jacked in and oblivious to their true nature.

the pseudo-biblical-mythological point exuded by the writer is very intriguing. but it is however his interpretation of what took place via ascribing what he feels are relevant texts from (usually) religious text. i can come up with several other interpretations, but that may not make it an entirely accurate interpretation, just my interpretation of it.

but when you take a story about computer source code and hacking and merge it with religion, there has to be an explanation, or a deeper connection between the two. how did it happen? why, of all the code, neo is the strongest? why does he cancel smith out?

non-computer people look at it that he was some god-like saviour with "the light" bestowed on him. but at the end of the day, the crux of the matrix was that "they are all programs". why was neo so special?

smith, was a virus. which was why he multiplied like crazy. why was neo the norton/mcafee virus slayer that worked? the answer lies not in religion, it lies in code.

it would probably do good as a stand alone but after watching part 1 and 2 i felt it was so sorely disconnected.

and it was mainly the quality of the script and the choppy scenes that made it lose it's depth.

///ej

CyberKewl
23-11-2003, 06:50 PM
Yes i agree that not everything hit when i watched the movie. But i think the brothers made it that way. Not everyone was able to relate what they saw on the big screen and sometimes it may take more than one showing to truly understand what reloaded/revolutions really meant.

Also, if the movie was as straight-forward as other movies, then there wouldn't even be a discussion about it in the first place. Unlike other movies that just come and go, this trilogy is definitely one that i won't forget as it really got me thinking a lot!

empress_julz
23-11-2003, 11:58 PM
true, true. you have a point cyberkewl.

but then why did the brothers change the style so dramatically in the end? i.e. made it so choppy? also, why did they totally depart from the original idea of the matrix?

that's what i'm trying to figure out.

can't wait for LOTR :D

///ej

CyberKewl
24-11-2003, 12:28 AM
Have you read the entire article yet? Because it explains more or less everything and after reading it, i finally understood most (if not all) of the movie and why it ended that way. I too felt a bit disappointed about the movie after walking out of the cinema but that's without knowing the "hidden" meaning of so many parts of the movie.

One example is the part where neo was stuck in "Mobil Avenue". It wasn't an interesting scene to me but little did i expect that the Mobil Avenue scene carried a meaning on its own. Read the article to know more :)

empress_julz
24-11-2003, 12:32 AM
i read it twice. if you read my post you'd notice i saw the article as an interpretation on the part of the writer, i do see things differently from him based on the wachowski's original interpretation of the matrix. it was never meant to be a pseudo-religious experience, it's about computer code.

god knows why the wachowski brothers turned it into that if they did mean to.

if they did turn the matrix on it's head, i didn't like that. was hoping they'd let the story flow.

though the biblical allegory is interesting, it's a bit far off. i think they had to put that in cos they realised that the bulk of the population can relate to religion but not to code.

i think the writer pulled it off the new book that's out, "the gospel of the matrix". i haven't read it yet, don't think i will.

///ej

CyberKewl
24-11-2003, 08:40 AM
Actually i think it all started that way already, not about computer code even the first matrix itself. It's only when Reloaded came out, the movie's tie towards religious experiences was stronger.

Timo
24-11-2003, 04:28 PM
I only read a bit of that link you posted CyberKewl, simply because I don't want to read the answers I want to discover them myself (with the aid of fellow human beings in the same position as me of course!).

Anyhow, I am not boasting here, but I thought about the concept of the matrix a long time ago, about 10 years ago when I was about 15, after watching an episode of Beyond 2000. I have thought about it often : What is reality ? - and I was pretty proud of myself that I had thought about concepts used in the movies such as the Truman Show and the Matrix before those movies appeared. However, little did I know that others have already asked this question, the most famous examples I can think of are Plato's Cave (Allegory of the cave? or something like that? Or was it Socrates?) and 1984 by Orwell.

Anyway, back to the point, my point is that I thought the movie started out with the question : What is reality? The brothers then highlighted this question in the context of machines and computer codes - allowing themselves the freedom to express modern concepts of an age old philosophical question.

So, the fact that the directors tapped into religion is not surprising - the fact that the leading lady is called Trinity confirms that. But I think the point of the movie was to arouse philosophical thinking - what is real? It certainly did that with the first movie, and to a certain extent in the second movie as well. However, for me the third movie was slightly beyond logic and I was slightly put off by that.

Anyway, my take on it after the second movie was that the so called 'real' world was not in fact real, it was a matrix in a matrix - allowing the illusion that people were free whereas in fact they were still plugged in. But I guess I was wrong.

CyberKewl
24-11-2003, 05:17 PM
If you've read the entire article, you would know that the matrix within a matrix theory is totally out as many have even argued about it in other forums as well. Whatever it may be, i felt that the 3rd movie contained deeper meanings and was not as open ended as Reloaded was which is why quite a number of people were a bit disappointed with Revolutions.

empress_julz
24-11-2003, 05:42 PM
there is a book that's out on human beings being plugged in, that this reality we know is actually the matrix. i heard it's pretty good but at this point the title escapes my mind.

yes , yes, yes cyberkewl i read the whole article. but it did not explain everything to me. it may have to you, but it did not to me.

the article did not explain what the movie was cyberkewl.... it was the writer's interpretation of the events that took place based on his own knowledge and understanding of religion and humanism.

where and when did part 2 get tied to religious experience?

///ej

Cool Hand Luke
24-11-2003, 05:48 PM
I must be the only person left in this world who hasn't been to see Matrix Revolutions yet. I intend to see it and that was why I have not been reading any post on this thread. I do not want you good people spoiling it for me!

CyberKewl
24-11-2003, 06:20 PM
EJ: The "Matrix Reloaded Explained" essay explains it (more or less). The link is at the top of the "Matrix Revolutions Explained" essay. And i know that you have read the whole article, i was actually referring to Timo. Sorry for the confusion.

empress_julz
24-11-2003, 06:22 PM
ah ok.

thanks cyberkewl.

but i still don't see the link, or the development :D

glad you enjoyed yourself though.

i'm looking forward to brother bear :D

///ej

empress_julz
25-11-2003, 06:17 AM
?

///ej

Timo
25-11-2003, 12:28 PM
Don't understand computer languages? What do you mean? What has that got to do with anything? Please explain.

Brother Bear? I have not heard about it - but I'll look around.

romi_o
25-11-2003, 12:41 PM
hehe, spoiler ahead....

brother bear!


pls, this movie is not for children under 12 (or those who don't understand english well), and man, this movie (or cartoon/animation) is too deep in a way that only adults will feel wanna cry in some part....

i was in the cinema where some parents brought along their young children, and guess wat? their kids are yelling even before the movie ends... nope, not their cup of tea, i presume... so?


btw CHL, i still haven't watch the matrix:revolution, not even reloaded... so? anyone wanna lend me their DVD/VCD?

empress_julz
26-11-2003, 09:24 PM
when i get the dvd i can lend you if you want. i'll definitely get it at some point.

you know what, i was talking to someone and i realised that the matrix is a metaphor. or that's what this person convinced me.

it's not about machines or any of that stuff.

you know like that part where neo talks to that big huge machine with a face... and he says he wants "peace".... that face is bush's face.

heh.

but i still think it sucks :D

//ej

romi_o
27-11-2003, 10:13 PM
aiyah, now i've even watched looney tunes.... :( fell asleep while watching the midnite run... hehe... length is almost the same as brother bear... but u got a lot of movies inside it.... FUN!!! yipeee

EJ, thanks, will ask for ur DVD later on :D