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lord
07-10-2003, 11:18 AM
The Star: 07/10/03

Good to revive caning in schools, says Rais

PENANG: Reviving caning in schools is justifiable as indiscipline has reached alarming heights, Minister in Prime Minister’s Department Datuk Seri Dr Rais Yatim said.

Agreeing with the Education Ministry that teachers should be allowed to cane naughty students, Dr Rais said it was not against the law to do so, adding that many schoolchildren had been caned after the country's independence.

“Based on the current discipline situation, it is proper to revive caning in schools because if not checked, it would lead to other menaces,” he said when opening a seminar on the “Roles and Responsibilities of Justices of Peace (JPs) Towards the Development of the Community” organised by the state council of JPs here yesterday.

Dr Rais said parents would not be able to sue the school if caning was sanctioned under the law.

He said a provision had to be added to the Education Act to mete out such corporal punishment.

Dr Rais also said it was high time activities to keep the school environment clean and presentable were revived.

“We need to get students involved in activities such as cleaning the toilets and participating in landscaping works to give them a sense of responsibility,” he said.

Deputy Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi had said he supported caning in schools, adding, however, that caution was needed in implementing it.

The Congress of Teachers Union in the Education Service said the decision to allow all teachers to cane students must be supported by legal and moral protection from police reports or civil suits.

Its secretary-general Shahul Hamid Mydin Shah said: “The ministry must ensure teachers are provided legal and moral support. Otherwise, they will be left alone to face possible police investigation if parents of affected students lodge reports.”

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Sure thing, gangsterism in schools are alarming these days. But, is caning the ultimate choice to curb this menace? Is there another solution for this that we have not thought of? And can we, the parents be sure that such 'freedom' to teachers and educators will not be abused?

forknspoon
07-10-2003, 12:46 PM
At the stage/age of rebellion, the after effects of caning could be quite the contrary.

Engaging the physical only means that reasoning and rational had failed.

I personally don't support caning and if they do implement it, parents should have the right to sue if it is clearly abuse.

On the other hand, my friend, who used to teach at an International School got hell from some VVIP parents (i.e. pulling rank, treats and lawsuit!) for reprimanding their kid. The kid was clearly able to manipulate his/her parents who obviously believed that their darling child could do or say no evil.

Sometimes, kids are what their parents make them to be. Rather than just tackling the kids, they should also address parenting issues.

xweird
07-10-2003, 01:06 PM
why are kids going to school to fight in gangs?

because they are pressed down at home... parents who only care about how many "A's" you get in your exam, or what is your positioning in school, or why you didn't manage to score above 90 for your math paper.

parents need to pay attention to what is happening, and the parent-teacher relationship needs to be stronger. PTAs exist for a reason: to allow teachers to tell parents what is happening with their kid in school, and to allow parents to know their children better... sometimes kids just refuse to converse in the house.....

Joecool
09-10-2003, 02:58 PM
I was caned while in primary school. For something I did not do. Actually my homework. But did it make me a more responsible person after that? Yes. No so much from the caning. But from the humilation of it all. Do I want my child to be caned in school? No. I think not.

suertes
09-10-2003, 05:27 PM
You have got to understand that society was different back then, when caning by teachers was acceptable. We were a more trusting society then, and we expected each to fulfill his / her assigned role responsibly and with pride. So we relaxed the care of our interests - our children, our financials, our national policies -entirely into the hands of the people who were supposed to be authoritative in these matters. Hence, children were "relaxed" into the hands of our teachers, who were trusted completely by the parents. If he smacked the kid, he had a good reason. If she gave a scolding, fine by the parents. You only need read LAT's "Kampung Boy", and what his father said to the Ustaz on enrolment to Sekolah Agama, to get the picture.

We probably stopped allowing caning, partly in deference to changing / westernising values. But anyhow, values have changed so much it will now be very difficult to turn the clock back.

Parents do not trust teachers very much anymore. They think that many are not highly motivated, qualified or trained. Hence you have endless rounds of tuition outside of school. If the impression is not good, how can they trust the teachers to mete out corporal punishment to their own flesh and blood, at their own discretion and good faith ?

Many parents probably find the idea of caning their own chidlren themselves repulsive, so they are not going to let anyone else do it then. And as I mentioned earlier, we no longer live in trusting times, so parents are likely to have little patience and will speak out easily and loudly. And no ruling from the government will make them pipe down, so teachers will continue to wield the cane at their own peril.

Children are aware of the times as well. They too will not submit to authority without fighting the good fight. They do not trust anybody either. Caning does not change the picture. An adolescent miscreant will take his hiding and seethe, waiting to erupt again or carry the chip on his shoulder for the rest of his life.

lord
09-10-2003, 06:56 PM
I know someone who sends his son to a private school in Shah Alam, near Monterez. The reason the boy started his schooling there was b'coz the father believed that by paying so much compared to a national school, the son will be well taught and will not need additional classes. That was not the story. His mom coaches him daily with his work. The teachers, according to the parents, are not competent enough to educate the son. The mom has so much so taken every exam he takes as hers and toils daily to prepare him. I have even experienced peer pressure, not by the boy but his parents!!!

Do you think the parents will actually buy the story if that boy is to be caned, for whatever reason the school feels that he should? No way jose!! These days parents don't even use the cane on their kids, do you think that they will allow someone else?

left side hung
09-10-2003, 09:53 PM
i'm not sure if caning is the way to go either. and i question what it is exactly makes those students form gangs in the first place.

i tend to be rather jaundiced about these things, and i honestly believe without repercussions most people will rape, murder and pillage without end. but i also believe that because of this, you can tell how matured and developed a society is. i.e. if a group of people need to be punished to behave reasonably, something is very wrong the mentality of that particular group.

it is imperative that students such as these do not behave so badly because they KNOW it is wrong and pointlessly damaging, rather than just because they dont want to be humiliated in front of their peers.

what do other people have to say about the issue?

romi_o
09-10-2003, 10:44 PM
wow, and i thought i was caned b'cos i'm the monitor n the whole class was so noisy like a wet market:) maybe their parents should asked/taught their children not to make noise in the class:D
or is it b'cos of the gang fighting?? well, i'm confused:confused: and i thought due to better living standard n better education, their parents n themselves should be educated, thoughtful n civic minded.... and, well, i do think those who get A in "pendidikan moral" is the most "tidak bermoral". they know how to lie (and with brilliant reasons) like "when u found a wallet, u'll wait for the owner, look around, and when all fail, go to the police", yeah rite, like i'm going to believe:eek:

if u wanna get students to be obedient, start from education, and i don't mean "pendidikan moral". pls, start from ethic and family education/values

Joecool
10-10-2003, 11:41 AM
What does caning a student do to society? It will be bringing up a society that only behaves because there is punishment that is going to be meted out. I guess much like Singapore's fine system. I mean fining system. When they are out of Singapore, they will go crazy and do everything they cannot do. So what is the point? Is the message driven home to mold the mind?

Fat-Huntress
14-10-2003, 02:16 AM
im 14 this year and the teacher cares about who put gels on their hair and who didnt cut their nails and such bull****s.

as for gangsterism, the teachers dont really talk to them, just send them to counceling and i dont really know what they do there. but the naughty students that come back from the counselling place sure looks happy without fear.

for teachers i dont think they would wanna CANE the students as the student now is naughty that would scratch the teachers car etc..

its all up to how their brought ups...live with it.

joker2107
14-10-2003, 12:36 PM
its like tho rod's been banned from sch and now the ban is being lifted. not so my friend, far from it. as it is, sch principals have the sole authority to whip th edaylight outa sch rots. do we need to share the burden of fear? with an ever willing mob of incompetent and inadequately trained wage earners who call themselves teachers? so what is some big f a r t alleges that teachers are matured and trained and know when and how to discipline. thats just a of bull and a political tag line. if such claims are truth, then y is there a need to intro physical weapons into their hands when there already exist a recourse? nah, weapons are meant either for defnece or for acts of aggression and i see the stick in classrooms as being for the latter. so what if i don't do my homework or forget to bring my book or am just so damn plain stupid that i can't score 30% in each paper? should my bottom be victimised bcos my dad gets up at a qtr past 7 to send me to sch 10km away?
i'd rather see the sotry of the cane this way - if i am to allow my kid to be subjected to the whims of his teachers, them the teachers must allow themselves to be subjected to my demonstration of rage and wrath is the same manner, eg, when i fume and writher in disgust on the brink of cardiac failure at the sight of test papers asking pupils to identify the adjectives from a list of adverbs. or when an innovative answer in creative and intelligent own words is deemed wrong cos the student did not parrot from the offered text.