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Henry T
15-06-2017, 01:08 PM
Looking at history, the few Orang Puteh countries did colonize the whole world for a very long time. Their footprints and legacy still remain.

Britain, France, Netherlands, Spain, Portugal, Germany and Belgium ~ they were the naval powers of that time. It was gunboat diplomacy. A few cannons and muskets were enough to scare the natives into surrendering. China was a victim too. But today they preach their democracy and human rights to the world.

And the Middle East is still paying the price, the region being the spoils of war for Britain and France, from the defeat and disintegration of the Ottoman Empire.

opulant
16-06-2017, 03:17 PM
Europe, the motherland of all theese conquerors from Britain, France, Netherlands, Spain, Portugal, Germany and Belgium is slowly being "colonized" by others..

Maybe it is because of their generous immigration policies (past and present), maybe they need to replace their aging and depleting population, some of the major cities in this continent are completely different compares with 20 or 30 years ago.

If I blindfold you and put in you a plane for 13 hours ... when you open your eyes and look at the surrondings at Heathrow London (for example), you wouldn’t believe this is England or Europe. .. !!

In a way , I think a new empire is taking place in Europe, albeit slowly and discreetly.... ;)

Naka
16-06-2017, 04:23 PM
When it comes to Immigration control, Australia is in full control.

If they come by boats, they will find themselves chucked in Manus Island or PNG for years.

The Oz Government pays heavily in the billions to keep them out.

Henry T
16-06-2017, 05:23 PM
That's because Australia is an island in the middle of a vast ocean.

If Britain isn't separated from Continental Europe by the English Channel it will be more swamped by illegal immigrants and refugees.

Henry T
16-06-2017, 05:47 PM
........... In a way , I think a new empire is taking place in Europe, albeit slowly and discreetly.... ;)

To put it another way ~ it is payback time. :)

Naka
16-06-2017, 06:34 PM
That's because Australia is an island in the middle of a vast ocean.

..............

Yes, that vast ocean helps.

But do not forget, Australia turned a lot of boats back to where they came from by paying thousands of hard cash AUD to the skippers of these boats.

These skippers are normally jailed for a long time, their boats burnt.

By accepting the hard cash, they were paid twice, first by the illegals and a lot more by our Government. Also they are free.

When these skippers returned to their kampongs, they are set for life.

It works and current Oz Government has the political will to do it right and she does not listen to the complaints of United Nations Human Rights Council.

Also Australia has a very good relationship with our neighbouring countries.

opulant
17-06-2017, 05:09 PM
Yes, that vast ocean helps.

But do not forget, Australia turned a lot of boats back to where they came from by paying thousands of hard cash AUD to the skippers of these boats.

These skippers are normally jailed for a long time, their boats burnt.

By accepting the hard cash, they were paid twice, first by the illegals and a lot more by our Government. Also they are free..

I am not sure how this work for the skippers ??

Irrespective of where the boat people come from (middle east, Indo China, South Asia, etc), it is a long long sea journey to reach the Indian Ocean, offshore Australia. The money require to pay to the vessel's skipper for such illegal human smuggling is a big amount of money. Those poor fellas would have to sell everything they have in their homeland or even borrow in advance to get ready such money before they can onboard the vessel.

You think these boat people will let the skipper to take them for a ride, a very costly ride in term of $$$ and life risks whereas the skipper can shake legs later with the money from the boat people and from the aussie government !!

opulant
17-06-2017, 05:21 PM
....Also Australia has a very good relationship with our neighbouring countries.

Australia need to be nice and have to be nice with their neeighbours... !! ;)

Australia is surrounded by the biggest muslim country in the world in which (in my opinion) is not in good terms with Australia. Australia have to be nice to avoid regional geopolitical conflicts because she is in the middle of no way, the nearest ally (UK or US) is thousands of mile away...

opulant
18-06-2017, 10:50 AM
....Also Australia has a very good relationship with our neighbouring countries.

Not sure whether China is considered as neighbour to Australia ?? Your PM, Mr Turnbull has labelled China as "frenemy" ... :rolleyes:

" Malcolm Turnbull has reportedly labelled China a “frenemy” of Australia at a public event in Sydney. The report comes one day after audio surfaced of the Prime Minister’s “off-the-record” mimicry of US President Donald Trump at Wednesday night’s Parliament House Mid Winter Ball.. "

http://www.news.com.au/national/politics/malcolm-turnbull-faces-fresh-leak-after-calling-china-a-frenemy/news-story/af3bdd10f179277e0a4d12b428ab1a7b

I think is good you guys tell him don't mess with China, australia can't afford it.... :heheheh:

Naka
18-06-2017, 04:17 PM
I am not sure how this work for the skippers ??

..........
....................

You think these boat people will let the skipper to take them for a ride, a very costly ride in term of $$$ and life risks whereas the skipper can shake legs later with the money from the boat people and from the aussie government !!

Why do you think like this when there are so many 'turnbacks' and 'towed back' in the last 20 years or so.

Just Google for 'turnbacks' or 'towed back' or Tampa affairs and you will be clear of what is going on.

You think these illegals would harm the skippers or what?

If you can think like this, surely those trained personnel in the Australian Frigates can also foresee it and take necessary action.

Let us take Indonesia for an example, once the 'towed' boats were 'turnback' and were near their ports, the Indonesian Government is informed.

That is call regional co-operation.

Naka
18-06-2017, 04:27 PM
Australia need to be nice and have to be nice with their neeighbours... !! ;)

Australia is surrounded by the biggest muslim country in the world in which (in my opinion) is not in good terms with Australia. Australia have to be nice to avoid regional geopolitical conflicts because she is in the middle of no way, the nearest ally (UK or US) is thousands of mile away...

Why do you think Australia has to be 'nice' to her neighbours and not the opposite?

Why do you said that biggest Muslim country in the world is 'not in good terms with Australia?

Is there any big problem that can not be solved?

Can you mention some issues/problems?

Naka
18-06-2017, 04:36 PM
Not sure whether China is considered as neighbour to Australia ?? Your PM, Mr Turnbull has labelled China as "frenemy" ... :rolleyes:

" Malcolm Turnbull has reportedly labelled China a “frenemy” of Australia at a public event in Sydney. The report comes one day after audio surfaced of the Prime Minister’s “off-the-record” mimicry of US President Donald Trump at Wednesday night’s Parliament House Mid Winter Ball.. "

http://www.news.com.au/national/politics/malcolm-turnbull-faces-fresh-leak-after-calling-china-a-frenemy/news-story/af3bdd10f179277e0a4d12b428ab1a7b

I think is good you guys tell him don't mess with China, australia can't afford it.... :heheheh:

This is domestic 'politics' and anything can happen.

In politics, there is no permanent friends or permanent enemies except permanent interests

And you think a trivial joke like this by Malcolm Turnbull can spoilt the mutual relationship between Australia and PRC!

opulant
18-06-2017, 05:38 PM
Why do you think Australia has to be 'nice' to her neighbours and not the opposite?

Why do you said that biggest Muslim country in the world is 'not in good terms with Australia?

Is there any big problem that can not be solved?

Can you mention some issues/problems?

Let give one example first, only a few month ago (Feb 2017)..

" Indonesian President Joko Widodo delivered a diplomatic uppercut to PM Malcolm Turnbull as he warned Australia not to meddle in the domestic affairs of the world’s most populous Muslim nation. The Indo-Australian relationship went into meltdown in January as Indonesia cut military ties after "offensive" material was allegedly found at a WA army training base. The material was believed to contain information about the sensitive issue of West Papua -- an Indonesian province that has sought independence. "

https://thewest.com.au/politics/world-politics/joko-widodo-warns-malcolm-turnbull-over-interference-with-indonesia-ng-b88398706z


Will reply accordingly when I am free. Now, it's time for gym ... :)

opulant
18-06-2017, 11:13 PM
Why do you think like this when there are so many 'turnbacks' and 'towed back' in the last 20 years or so.

Just Google for 'turnbacks' or 'towed back' or Tampa affairs and you will be clear of what is going on.



My comment on post #7 is disputing your point that you posted on post # 6 – “Australia turned a lot of boats back to where they came from by paying thousands of hard cash AUD to the skippers of these boats.”

I heard of Tampa, long time ago. For those who are not aware.. here is the link… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampa_affair

A brief introduction to Tampa affair ..... “ In August 2001, the Howard Government of Australia refused permission for the Norwegian freighter MV Tampa, carrying 433 rescued refugees (predominantly Afghanistan from a distressed fishing vessel in international waters) and 5 crew to enter Australian waters. When the Tampa entered Australian water, the Prime Minister ordered the ship be boarded by Australian special forces. This brought censure from the government of Norway, which said the Australian government failed to meet its obligations to distressed mariners under international law at the United Nations “ … Those who are interested can read more from wikipedia…

Now, tell me, what is Tampa affairs got to do with “Australia turned a lot of boats back to where they came from by paying thousands of hard cash AUD to the skippers of these boats.’’ ??

opulant
18-06-2017, 11:24 PM
...You think these illegals would harm the skippers or what?

If you can think like this, surely those trained personnel in the Australian Frigates can also foresee it and take necessary action..

I think you are tryng to say - If a layman like me can think the illegals would harm the skipper after knwoing the skipper has taken money from aussie governement, then for sure the well-trained australian frigates will surely foresee it and take the neccesarry actions.

I fully agreed with you.. whatever an average layman like me can think of, the australian authority can think of for sure.. ;)

Since their objective is to ensure the illegals are out of aussie waters, so what happens next to the skipper is not important and none of their business. I made the assertion purely based on what you posted earlier


It works and current Oz Government has the political will to do it right and she does not listen to the complaints of United Nations Human Rights Council.

Naka
19-06-2017, 08:25 AM
Let give one example first, only a few month ago (Feb 2017)..

" Indonesian President Joko Widodo delivered a diplomatic uppercut to PM Malcolm Turnbull as he warned Australia not to meddle in the domestic affairs of the world’s most populous Muslim nation. The Indo-Australian relationship went into meltdown in January as Indonesia cut military ties after "offensive" material was allegedly found at a WA army training base. The material was believed to contain information about the sensitive issue of West Papua -- an Indonesian province that has sought independence. "

https://thewest.com.au/politics/world-politics/joko-widodo-warns-malcolm-turnbull-over-interference-with-indonesia-ng-b88398706z


Will reply accordingly when I am free. Now, it's time for gym ... :)

Oh this one, it is only a storm in a tea cup.

You can get a better detail in 2 other articles here.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/indonesia-australia-military-cooperation-on-hold-for-technical-reasons-20170104-gtltai.html

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-04/indonesia-suspends-all-military-cooperation-with-australia/8161362

Such disputes are common amongst countries and it is not the end of the world eg

Paul Keating called Mahathir Mohamad 'recalcitrant.'

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/12/09/world/malaysia-premier-demands-apology.html

Singapore and Malaysia over water 'cut off tap' affairs.

http://factsanddetails.com/southeast-asia/Singapore/sub5_7c/entry-3769.html

Naka
19-06-2017, 08:28 AM
My comment on post #7 is disputing your point that you posted on post # 6 – “Australia turned a lot of boats back to where they came from by paying thousands of hard cash AUD to the skippers of these boats.”

I heard of Tampa, long time ago. For those who are not aware.. here is the link… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampa_affair

A brief introduction to Tampa affair ..... “ In August 2001, the Howard Government of Australia refused permission for the Norwegian freighter MV Tampa, carrying 433 rescued refugees (predominantly Afghanistan from a distressed fishing vessel in international waters) and 5 crew to enter Australian waters. When the Tampa entered Australian water, the Prime Minister ordered the ship be boarded by Australian special forces. This brought censure from the government of Norway, which said the Australian government failed to meet its obligations to distressed mariners under international law at the United Nations “ … Those who are interested can read more from wikipedia…

Now, tell me, what is Tampa affairs got to do with “Australia turned a lot of boats back to where they came from by paying thousands of hard cash AUD to the skippers of these boats.’’ ??

Tampa affairs was mentioned because it showed how serious is Australia regarding the peoples smugglers on illegals.

Naka
19-06-2017, 08:31 AM
I think you are tryng to say - If a layman like me can think the illegals would harm the skipper after knwoing the skipper has taken money from aussie governement, then for sure the well-trained australian frigates will surely foresee it and take the neccesarry actions.

I fully agreed with you.. whatever an average layman like me can think of, the australian authority can think of for sure.. ;)

Since their objective is to ensure the illegals are out of aussie waters, so what happens next to the skipper is not important and none of their business. I made the assertion purely based on what you posted earlier

Those trained personnel think way ahead of ordinary layman and they are well prepared.

opulant
19-06-2017, 08:57 AM
My comment on post #7 is disputing your point that you posted on post # 6 – “Australia turned a lot of boats back to where they came from by paying thousands of hard cash AUD to the skippers of these boats.”

Now, tell me, what is Tampa affairs got to do with “Australia turned a lot of boats back to where they came from by paying thousands of hard cash AUD to the skippers of these boats.’’ ??


Tampa affairs was mentioned because it showed how serious is Australia regarding the peoples smugglers on illegals.

You missed the point...

I did not dispute the seriousness of Australia to throw the illegal smugglers back to the sea...

I am asking you how Tampa affair got anything to do with " by paying thousands of hard cash AUD to the skippers of these boats.”

opulant
19-06-2017, 09:01 AM
I think you are tryng to say - If a layman like me can think the illegals would harm the skipper after knwoing the skipper has taken money from aussie governement, then for sure the well-trained australian frigates will surely foresee it and take the neccesarry actions

Since their objective is to ensure the illegals are out of aussie waters, so what happens next to the skipper is not important and none of their business. I made the assertion purely based on what you posted earlier


Those trained personnel think way ahead of ordinary layman and they are well prepared.

Why they need to prepare and prepare what ... ??

Once the skipper take the money from the aussie authority (as revealed by you) and turn back to the open ocean... what is going to happen to the skipper and the boat people is not important anymore because your country has no problem to ignore the complaints from the United Nations on human right issues...

So, if the boat people eat the skipper alive or the skipper throw the boat people into the sea, is nothing to the aussie government because money has been paid to the skipper. The ultimate aim is to ensure the illegals not arriving at australian shore. What happen to the illegals, I doubt you guys care...

opulant
19-06-2017, 09:14 AM
Australia is surrounded by the biggest muslim country in the world in which (in my opinion) is not in good terms with Australia. Australia have to be nice to avoid regional geopolitical conflicts because she is in the middle of no way, the nearest ally (UK or US) is thousands of mile away...


Oh this one, it is only a storm in a tea cup.

Such disputes are common amongst countries and it is not the end of the world



Did I mention the relationship is like end of the world ????

Naka
19-06-2017, 10:25 AM
You missed the point...

I did not dispute the seriousness of Australia to throw the illegal smugglers back to the sea...

I am asking you how Tampa affair got anything to do with " by paying thousands of hard cash AUD to the skippers of these boats.”

I did not say Tampa affairs has got to do with the cash payment, I was asking you to read up more on Operation Border by Oz

Naka
19-06-2017, 10:28 AM
Why they need to prepare and prepare what ... ??

Once the skipper take the money from the aussie authority (as revealed by you) and turn back to the open ocean... what is going to happen to the skipper and the boat people is not important anymore because your country has no problem to ignore the complaints from the United Nations on human right issues...

So, if the boat people eat the skipper alive or the skipper throw the boat people into the sea, is nothing to the aussie government because money has been paid to the skipper. The ultimate aim is to ensure the illegals not arriving at australian shore. What happen to the illegals, I doubt you guys care...

That is what you think and it was/is not happening like you think.

That is why I said the trained personnel think far ahead

Naka
19-06-2017, 10:34 AM
Did I mention the relationship is like end of the world ????

No you did not.

You made it sound as if that 'military materials' is a big issue.

Also Indonesia/Malaysia were in 'Confontation mode' in the 60s.

Differences/disputes are common but mutual interests come first

opulant
19-06-2017, 10:57 AM
...Just Google for 'turnbacks' or 'towed back' or Tampa affairs and you will be clear of what is going on.


I did not say Tampa affairs has got to do with the cash payment, I was asking you to read up more on Operation Border by Oz

You use OR in your previous post...

This mean you are using Tampa affairs as the same example of the "turnbacks" that the skippers of the boats were paid by the aussie government to turnback...

opulant
19-06-2017, 10:59 AM
You made it sound as if that 'military materials' is a big issue.

That is what you think

I said " not in good terms"... and you are the one asking for examples of such "not in good terms" relationship

opulant
19-06-2017, 11:01 AM
That is why I said the trained personnel think far ahead

Can you provide examples of what they prepare/think ahead after they paid money to the skippers...

Naka
19-06-2017, 11:17 AM
You use OR in your previous post...

This mean you are using Tampa affairs as the same example of the "turnbacks" that the skippers of the boats were paid by the aussie government to turnback...

I am sorry you misunderstood my intention

Naka
19-06-2017, 11:21 AM
That is what you think

I said " not in good terms"... and you are the one asking for examples of such "not in good terms" relationship

I was expecting military conflicts but what you mentioned is common issues amongst neighbours where I gave 3 examples

Naka
19-06-2017, 11:56 AM
Can you provide examples of what they prepare/think ahead after they paid money to the skippers...

Australia frigates patrol in international waters for illegals boats. All boats caught were checked and most were turnback. Payments were only done when it was safe to do so.

But there were boats that managed to sneak through and these were towed back if the boats were not seaworthy.

There are well prepared because they also have spare boats on the frigates for use if necessary.

Other matters re such operation are kept away from the media

opulant
19-06-2017, 02:28 PM
I am sorry you misunderstood my intention

No misunderstanding from me....

You misquoted Tampa affairs in your "turnbacks" posts..

opulant
19-06-2017, 02:29 PM
I was expecting military conflicts but what you mentioned is common issues amongst neighbours,,

Why you expect military conflicts when I merely said Indonesia is not in good terms with Australia... ??

opulant
19-06-2017, 02:33 PM
Australia frigates patrol in international waters for illegals boats. All boats caught were checked and most were turnback. Payments were only done when it was safe to do so.

But there were boats that managed to sneak through and these were towed back if the boats were not seaworthy.

There are well prepared because they also have spare boats on the frigates for use if necessary.

Other matters re such operation are kept away from the media

You are not answering the question...

I asked
Can you provide examples of what they prepare/think ahead after they paid money to the skippers...

opulant
19-06-2017, 02:40 PM
Australia frigates patrol in international waters for illegals boats. All boats caught were checked and most were turnback. Payments were only done when it was safe to do so...

Why they go to international waters ??

Are you saying the australian frigates have jurisdiction to check, catch and chase away vessels in international waters ??



..Other matters re such operation are kept away from the media

If it is legitimate and lawful, why hide the details of operations from the media ??

Naka
19-06-2017, 02:53 PM
No misunderstanding from me....

You misquoted Tampa affairs in your "turnbacks" posts..

No...I did not...it's you who couldn't link up the whole affairs.

Naka
19-06-2017, 02:54 PM
Why you expect military conflicts when I merely said Indonesia is not in good terms with Australia... ??

Because I considered them ( military materials ) as storm in tea cup & nothing worthwhile to shout about.

Naka
19-06-2017, 03:12 PM
You are not answering the question...

I asked

I told you already that this is Australia's Operation Sovereign Borders.

They do not tell the whole world of what they are doing.

They only report to Australia PM.

If you are still in the dark, too bad, I can't help you.

Naka
19-06-2017, 03:16 PM
Why they go to international waters ??

Are you saying the australian frigates have jurisdiction to check, catch and chase away vessels in international waters ??

If it is legitimate and lawful, why hide the details of operations from the media ??

You are asking something which only Australia's Operation Sovereign Borders can answer.

Please forward your concern to OSB

opulant
19-06-2017, 03:16 PM
Because I consider them as storm in tea cup & nothing worthwhile to shout about.

You expect militray conflicts but now you say not worthwhile to shout about..

opulant
19-06-2017, 03:18 PM
I told you already that this is Australia's Operation Sovereign Borders.

They do not tell the whole world of what they are doing.

If you are still in the dark, too bad, I can't help you.

I can't help you too when you try to defend something indefensible..

opulant
19-06-2017, 03:20 PM
You are asking something which only Australia's Operation Sovereign Borders can answer.

Please forward your concern to OSB

You already said they don't bother about complaints from United Nations on human right, no need to ask them.

I thought you know something since you posted here and willing to share...

opulant
19-06-2017, 03:22 PM
No...I did not...it's you who couldn't link up the whole affairs.

You quoted a wrong example in your arguments and you expect others to link them up.. :heheheh:

Naka
19-06-2017, 03:23 PM
You expect militray conflicts but now you say not worthwhile to shout about..

Sorry, you are so lost.

Naka
19-06-2017, 03:24 PM
I can't help you too when you try to defend something indefensible..

You are entitled to your opinion.

Naka
19-06-2017, 03:26 PM
You already said they don't bother about complaints from United Nations on human right, no need to ask them.

I thought you know something since you posted here and willing to share...

Sorry to know you can't see the difference between United Nations on human right Council and OSB

opulant
19-06-2017, 03:26 PM
Sorry, you are so lost.

It's ok...

I believe I have managed to present a picture to others who follow this thread...

Who is lost, is up to others to judge... ;)

Naka
19-06-2017, 03:27 PM
You quoted a wrong example in your arguments and you expect others to link them up.. :heheheh:

I used 'OR' and not 'and'

Naka
19-06-2017, 03:29 PM
It's ok...

I believe I have managed to present a picture to others who follow this thread...

Who is lost, is up to others to judge... ;)

OK, fine with me.

opulant
19-06-2017, 03:32 PM
You quoted a wrong example in your arguments and you expect others to link them up..


I used 'OR' and not 'and'


Thank God, I still can read English..... :)

Naka
19-06-2017, 03:38 PM
Thank God, I still can read English..... :)

Yes, you can but unfortunately you are not able to link up about 20 years of illegal asylum seekers

kwchang
19-06-2017, 04:46 PM
I don't know why the "discussion" turned out to be one running around the bush as to what was posted at/after post #7 right up to #50.

All that ought to be done offline in a private discussion