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Mat Bruce
01-04-2016, 04:58 PM
Increasingly hard to pay respects on actual day, I try to go on weekends only,how many of you also don't go on the actual date? I always feel a bit guilty not going on actual date, why? It is more pragmatic to do on a weekend. Any comments?

bslee
01-04-2016, 05:01 PM
Increasingly hard to pay respects on actual day, I try to go on weekends only,how many of you also don't go on the actual date? I always feel a bit guilty not going on actual date, why? It is more pragmatic to do on a weekend. Any comments?

For me, maybe I'm minority..its anytime I feel obliged to go, I'll go.. I don't and won't follow culture or trend in this era.. just hate traffic jams and lots of other people doing the same thing. Getting stuck in traffic costs money. I don't have money to waste. No time?..create the time. I will only visit my mom/dad's grave at PJ..I ensured they're buried in the same grave, morever nearby so I can visit anytime I like.

jan tomaswaki
01-04-2016, 07:50 PM
For me, maybe I'm minority..its anytime I feel obliged to go, I'll go.. I don't and won't follow culture or trend in this era.. just hate traffic jams and lots of other people doing the same thing. Getting stuck in traffic costs money. I don't have money to waste. No time?..create the time. I will only visit my mom/dad's grave at PJ..I ensured they're buried in the same grave, morever nearby so I can visit anytime I like.

I pay respect to mum 1 month ago in Seminyih as my sisters overseas came back but dad's one just last week in different place.Last year when we pay respect to dad a week before Ching Ming his tombstone fell on the ground. Had to dig a hole to plant it back.Last my family suggest we rebuilt a nice one but the contractor told us to furnish all our personal details of date of birth so that he can find a auspicious date to start work. Find it difficult to pair up the date ,I went up to the graveyard to rebuilt it myself. Save money.Last week we went there the stone was intact.Syabas!!!

bslee
01-04-2016, 07:56 PM
Save money.Last week we went there the stone was intact.Syabas!!!

Wah?...auspicious date summore.. sorry, me never follow such belief and trend. I thought they're like any construction contracted to do a job, pure and simple...just do it! to. Maybe my mindset is now cultured never to follow tradition or auspicious dates. When we leave this world someday, its not likely on some auspicious day.
Life is supposed to be practical, simple and never squandered where able. I'm not denying nor offend anyone else who may insist following certain beliefs.
Good job saving some cost..now u can belanja me dinner..LOL!...:D

Naka
01-04-2016, 08:09 PM
I am not sure of the tradition....but I did my part in Sabah on the 27th March 2016.

jan tomaswaki
01-04-2016, 08:44 PM
Lee,I think along the same line as you but when mention gather all families details and if you tidak apa,something not good happen to your family members how to answer? Just like pregnant mum ,cannot nail the wall, pantang this pantang that .Confinement must eat lots of ginger to rid the wind .

bslee
01-04-2016, 08:52 PM
Lee,I think along the same line as you but when mention gather all families details and if you tidak apa,something not good happen to your family members how to answer? Just like pregnant mum ,cannot nail the wall, pantang this pantang that .Confinement must eat lots of ginger to rid the wind .

I could tell them straight in the face!... Well!..people once prayed to the moon. Sometime in July 69, man landed on the moon to find nothing spectacular except the view...Forget the sun.. anyone land there won't live to tell.
How come here only got toyol?... Europe and USA never heard such thing? Man invent mysteries..the world didn't expose it.

pcyeoh
02-04-2016, 12:30 PM
Although Cheng Beng falls on 4th April, which is a Monday this year, from what I was told, visitation to the graveyards can be made 10 days before and 10 days after this date for the convenience of many. However, for those whose loved ones died during the last 3 years, it is a must to visit their loved ones' graves on Cheng Beng Day itself. Though I am a Christian but born a Chinese, I believe this tradition is a good thing as it creates a bonding among surviving family members to gather at the graves to reminisce the good times they once had with those who passed away. Of course there is no hard and fast rules that one can only do this during Cheng Beng. But I abhor those who think they can do so online as they are making a mockery of this tradition.

pcyeoh
02-04-2016, 12:53 PM
Forget the sun.. anyone land there won't live to tell.
I heard when Samy Vellu was told that it was just impossible to land a person on the Sun because of the intensed heat, he argued back, "you think I am stupid. Of course I will submit my working papers to our beloved PM that we go there at night."

kwchang
02-04-2016, 12:54 PM
Being Christian, having left Taoism (traditional non-buddhist religious practice of local Chinese), family members do not partake in burning of joss-sticks and other prayer materials. But with our ancestral-based culture, they will still pay their respects to their deceased family members. For some, especially those who have burial plots, they could make Cheng Beng a picnic session at the gravesite. This being more possible with the more modern gravesites managed by memorial companies. It is a time for all to gather and use the time for fellowship and bonding. This is a really nice practice and maintains our extended family relationships. For those families not willing to suffer the crush of the actual day, some even go as early as 3 weeks before the actual day

Jennylim
03-04-2016, 02:33 PM
...... I believe this tradition is a good thing as it creates a bonding among surviving family members to gather at the graves to reminisce the good times they once had with those who passed away......

Well said.

Naka
03-04-2016, 03:13 PM
[QUOTE=Jennylim;600954]Well said.[/QUOT

Agreed with you..........

bslee
03-04-2016, 06:58 PM
Came across this article today.. wonder who's idea and are they sure its appropriate?
http://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2016/04/02/family-in-grave-trouble-sexy-dancers-for-qing-ming-rouse-the-ire-of-netizens/

Naka
04-04-2016, 05:23 AM
Came across this article today.. wonder who's idea and are they sure its appropriate?
http://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2016/04/02/family-in-grave-trouble-sexy-dancers-for-qing-ming-rouse-the-ire-of-netizens/

Hehehehe, good news to some of the departed.

I think in life, there are many types of people, some are holy, some are crooks, some do no wrong, some are the opposite, some are nite-clubs goers, some are good dancers, some this, some that, you name them.:D

You burnt billions of hell money, merc, mobiles, houses, servants, expensive clothings, watches etc, etc, for what?

For the departed to play mahjong, enjoy life in the other world, right?

Now let's think of the poor departed nite-clubs goers, surely they also missed them.

I say most nite clubs goers are good people who appreciate what they see that are provided by The Great Almighty.

If you can burnt Trillions of Hell Money, servants etc, you can also burnt dancing girls, etc, etc.

But then some smart & modern ones go to the next level, they provide live dancers.

I see no wrong.:mua-haha:

lbn
04-04-2016, 06:01 AM
Qing Ming is a Chinese culture. One needs to know and understand this practice. It has nothing to do with religion. Chinese stressed on filial piety to our parents and elders. Of course, it's best to show this when our parents are alive. Qing Ming is a tool to gather the siblings and their families to show gratitude to their parents who has passed away. This also reinforced the kinship with all the families. Definitely good for the family tree. If you understand the significance of Qing Ming, then whatever others do or happens is insignificant. Just be happy and don't worry!

Jennylim
04-04-2016, 11:31 AM
As layman who knew little about religious practice or cultures, my interpretation of whatever ritual took place is ‘to comfort the one who perform it’. The person who performs the ritual does whatever he/she thinks is right/needful, often with the thought that it benefits the dead. So, if you want to get something positive out of this ritual, “it’s the thoughts that count”. If one wants to criticize, he/she can even ‘find a bone in the egg’. :laugh:

Mat Bruce
06-04-2016, 08:59 PM
As layman who knew little about religious practice or cultures, my interpretation of whatever ritual took place is ‘to comfort the one who perform it’. The person who performs the ritual does whatever he/she thinks is right/needful, often with the thought that it benefits the dead. So, if you want to get something positive out of this ritual, “it’s the thoughts that count”. If one wants to criticize, he/she can even ‘find a bone in the egg’. :laugh:

Thinking of transporting the bones and bringing over to Australia for reburial as more of my family are over there. Went there one day before Ching Ming, the tomb has cracked as the whole hill is land sliding due to over development around it. All the flats and highways, it was like 46 years ago.

jan tomaswaki
07-04-2016, 08:18 AM
Thinking of transporting the bones and bringing over to Australia for reburial as more of my family are over there. Went there one day before Ching Ming, the tomb has cracked as the whole hill is land sliding due to over development around it. All the flats and highways, it was like 46 years ago.

If you are thinking of digging the old graves,i think most of the bones are gone after so many years.My friend dig his dad,s grave after 25 year only find some fragments like a small portion of hip bone and some in the arm.Other things that still intact is the buttons of the shirt.

Sooweng
07-04-2016, 11:09 AM
Being Christian, having left Taoism (traditional non-buddhist religious practice of local Chinese), family members do not partake in burning of joss-sticks and other prayer materials....


I grew up in a neighborhood with majority are Catholics Chinese and the rest practiced traditional Chinese belief.

I have a neighbor, he was my mentor when I was a kid and a very good friend of mine now. Like some of the people in this forum, he is a banana who grew up in a typical Chinese family and later embraced a western religion. His father is a very kind man, always helped the neighbour's kids to repair bicycle (the standard transport to school at that time) and he will help other neighbours whenever he can with his skillful hands in DIY/trouble-shooting. His father passed away peacefully in his sleep without suffering any illness at the old age of 82. Although my neighbour, his wife and children are all Catholics, they let the funeral to be conducted in the typical Chinese traditional way. He even passed the joss-sticks and other prayer materials to neighbors to perform the rituals.

My little understanding in Buddhism tells me joss-stick is not a taboo in Buddhism practice - meaning it is neither encouraged or forbidden. To me, it is more of a symbolical practice from our ancestral tradition which I don't see why it can contravene to a religion !!

Not sure why in Malaysia, after someone embraced a western religion, joss-sticks become a taboo !!

jan tomaswaki
07-04-2016, 12:08 PM
I saw once in Majalah 3 that Muslims in certain parts of China also pratice the joss sticks ritual.

bslee
07-04-2016, 12:13 PM
I recall watching a documentary on exhumation of designated graves at Singapore Bukit Brown cemetary to make way for a new highway. I guess most of them were very old plots. The grave diggers would dig up fragments of bone or whatever remains. Even one or two bone fragment was enough for due process. 2 relatives of my late mom were exhumed and returned to us from Singapore, reburied with grandmother at JB. My late parents now share one plot. I didn't want them apart. Easy to visit anytime and nearby at Kg Tunku PJ.

Naka
07-04-2016, 12:14 PM
I was born a Catholic but I also used the joss sticks.

kwchang
07-04-2016, 06:53 PM
If the deceased is Taoist or traditional ancestral worship, of course the funeral rites will be done entirely in the format of the deceased believes. Although the family is Christian, they will carry out the rites but they themselves will not choose to use joss-sticks (because of their Christian practices) although those who wish to use joss-sticks and other traditional methods are not deprived of their cultural requirements.

Do not misunderstand. Christians do not deny the right to the deceased to have the funeral rites suitable for their believes and other non-Christian members to carry out the rites that they believe in.

There is nothing wrong for Christians to attend wake services carried out in non-Christian rites.

bslee
07-04-2016, 07:05 PM
There is nothing wrong for Christians to attend wake services carried out in non-Christian rites.

Any funeral doesn't deny anyone of a respectful visit or participation, what they choose as long its not seen as commonly offensive or insult. During my mom's funeral, although led with typically modern Christian procedures, there were Muslims and other non Christian relative present at the wake and burial site. During prayer or last rites during the burial everyone cooperated in silence or listening to the pastor with full respect. This is all normal. No one says or insist this can, that cannot, no superior act nor insistence. Everything went on smoothly.
On another note, my grandmother's grave in Malacca. I guess its going to be lost to history. No one take care or visit anymore. Closest relatives there also old folks (70's)..the next generation probably not living there anymore. Don't even ask the generation after that..lagi tak tahu mana! I think only a handful of us know exactly where. Lucky I took pictures of the grave as reference to show my grandchildren one day. She passed away in 1942. Grandfather? no idea and no-one knows..he migrated elsewhere.

Sooweng
07-04-2016, 08:04 PM
If the deceased is Taoist or traditional ancestral worship, of course the funeral rites will be done entirely in the format of the deceased believes. Although the family is Christian, they will carry out the rites but they themselves will not choose to use joss-sticks (because of their Christian practices) although those who wish to use joss-sticks and other traditional methods are not deprived of their cultural requirements.

Do not misunderstand. Christians do not deny the right to the deceased to have the funeral rites suitable for their believes and other non-Christian members to carry out the rites that they believe in.

There is nothing wrong for Christians to attend wake services carried out in non-Christian rites.

I like history.. :)

I know history is boring but I just like this subject which has nothing to do with my profession. Because I can comfortably read in two of the most popular languages in the world, I read history in these two languages and try to see the similarities and differences from different cultural perspectives.

I have something to share, not on religion but on philosophy.

From Hannah Arendt, a German-Jewish philosopher and a holocaust survivor..

[Arendt] insisted that only good had any depth. Good can be radical; evil can never be radical, evil can only be extreme, and this is its horror! — it can spread like a fungus over the surface of the earth and lay waste the entire world. Evil comes from a failure to think. It defies thought from which it originates.

kwchang
07-04-2016, 10:36 PM
...Good can be radical; evil can never be radical, evil can only be extreme, and this is its horror...

In this particular sharing about religious practices of Chinese ancestral / cultural practices and Christian practices, I wonder why is there a need to interject with EVIL. Although you had mentioned that it is purely philosophical, I am wondering why there is any reason to mention evil (in the opinion of a holocast survivor) as if your memory of this opinion was stimulated by the mention of different religions?

The subliminal suggestion to the reader is that one of the religious practices (or non-practice) has references to evil intent ??
And why was it necessary to quote in entirety my post? Somehow, you are linking what I posted to be parallel to manifestations of EVIL at a level as extreme as the holocast !

Sooweng
08-04-2016, 10:33 AM
In this particular sharing about religious practices of Chinese ancestral / cultural practices and Christian practices, I wonder why is there a need to interject with EVIL. Although you had mentioned that it is purely philosophical, I am wondering why there is any reason to mention evil (in the opinion of a holocast survivor) as if your memory of this opinion was stimulated by the mention of different religions?



..I have something to share, not on religion but on philosophy...

Although I have specifically mentioned that my quote in post #25 is not related to religion (just to avoid religiously over-sensitive people like you) but you still wonder this, wonder that, asking this, asking that ??

Maybe you don't know/don't like philosophy, but I can't help if this is the case. Let me end this particular sharing with another quote from a ancient philosopher, Socrates. Btw, he also mentioned "EVIL", I hope you don't mind.

" There is only one good - knowledge, and one evil - ignorance "

Sooweng
08-04-2016, 11:05 AM
...The subliminal suggestion to the reader is that one of the religious practices (or non-practice) has references to evil intent ??

And why was it necessary to quote in entirety my post? Somehow, you are linking what I posted to be parallel to manifestations of EVIL at a level as extreme as the holocast !

Wow, you practically put words into my mouth !! :eek:

It seems like you don’t like my post or maybe you don’t like me. ( I read somewhere that you openly declared and admitted that you get personal with a forumer in your moderation).

Since you get so annoyed with my post or me, and you can get personal in your moderation, may I suggest you do the followings :
1) remove my post
2) remove me from the forum