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Jennylim
10-04-2015, 10:26 PM
http://www.themalaymailonline.com/malaysia/article/epf-mulls-realigning-withdrawal-age-closer-to-60-ceo-says

jan tomaswaki
10-04-2015, 10:54 PM
The gomen now has full of excuses.One thing those "expert economist" Don,t realise the retirees need the money to pay their loans,long desire holidays with their spouses,children Ed.some other investments,start some small business.Once I read from a paper a economist said we need at least RM2,000,000 to retire!WTF ! talk is cheap ,I wonder whether he had Rmb 200,000.#%^+***

ng
10-04-2015, 10:59 PM
Who can survive on rm 700 per month in KL when the inflation rate is so high these few years?

http://www.themalaymailonline.com/malaysia/article/epf-mulls-realigning-withdrawal-age-closer-to-60-ceo-says

Many people will suffer during retirement unless they come out setting up stalls selling nasi lemak , wan tan mee etc.:rolleyes:

Sentinel
10-04-2015, 11:52 PM
C'mon guys - have confidence.... the guy is an economics graduate from a premier university University of Nottingham lah.... moreover his brother manages the second biggest bank in the country and also chairs the country's biggest sovereign fund ie Khazanah.... and he has a young high-flying 32-year old lad from Penang as chief strategist in another sovereign fund who is a finance graduate from Wharton School at Pennsylvania University.... and 47% of YOU Malaysians who just voted for him only 34 months ago on 5th May 2013 cannot be wrong, eh?

He has been happily giving you people BR1M hasn't he.... and you guys have ben happily receiving them too, haven't you? So, why complain now?

Only today, MIC Youth chief Sivarraj paised him as the best Prime Minister ever....

kuma
11-04-2015, 12:05 AM
The Candy Monster Strikes Again! :eek:

YouTube Challenge - I Told My Kids I Ate All Their Halloween Candy - see kids reaction when they learn that mom/dad ate all their candy..."Quote: "after all, its the first time they ever 'earned anything'" ;)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK-oQfFToVg

and I suppose some will post asking me the significance of this video :rolleyes:

Naka
11-04-2015, 07:12 AM
The way I understand it is this.

The new retirement age is now 60 instead of 55. And if you are still working at 55 to 60, you still have to contribute to EPF, right?

So how can you withdraw your money at 55?

Last time when I touched 60, I was able to withdraw my Superannuation.

Henry T
11-04-2015, 09:16 AM
J
The way I understand it is this.

The new retirement age is now 60 instead of 55. And if you are still working at 55 to 60, you still have to contribute to EPF, right?

So how can you withdraw your money at 55?

Last time when I touched 60, I was able to withdraw my Superannuation.

As you know under the current rules you can empty your Account #2 when you reach 50 and Account #1 at 55.
I guess the amendment would make it age 55 and 60 respectively. It means EPF will hang on to your money for five more years.

It also mean more money from which the Government can borrow. It is always better to borrow in your own currency than foreign ones and subject to the uncertainties of exchange rates.

It is not so bad. Try Googling Cyprus bail-in & Cyprus bank raids.

Greenwich
11-04-2015, 11:39 AM
The way I understand it is this.

The new retirement age is now 60 instead of 55. And if you are still working at 55 to 60, you still have to contribute to EPF, right? So how can you withdraw your money at 55?

I concur with you. When you are still working and have not reached the retirement age, the retirement money should not be withdrawn in full.

However, since this is an amendment from previous retirement age of 55 to the new retirement age of 60, option should be given to those who opt to retire at the age of 55. In other words, those who don't wish to work anymore after 55 years old should be entitled to withdraw all their money in EPF. Those who wish to continue working, their full withdrawal should only happen when they retire at the age of 60.

Singapore has tougher withdrawal rules for retires to "prevent" people form finishing their retirement money too soon. Like it or not, when majority of people don't have enough money to retire, it is a social problem.

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2014/08/cpf-partial-withdrawal-at-age-65-a-populist-compromise/



As you know under the current rules you can empty your Account #2 when you reach 50 and Account #1 at 55. I guess the amendment would make it age 55 and 60 respectively. It means EPF will hang on to your money for five more years.
.

You are right, they just want to hang on to contributors' money for another 5 years.

Full withdrawal of Account 2 at age 50 sounds great but in actual fact the money in Account 2 is only 30% of the total account money. Another way to withdraw EPF money at age 50 is when you can maintain a minimum amount of money after withdrawal then you are allowed to withdraw anytime you like. Nevertheless, full withdrawal to empty the EPF account can only happen when one reaches the retirement age.

cml
11-04-2015, 11:41 AM
They have been trying for a few times already. Always they say that it is because the contributors use it up in a few years but why should they care or worry. It is not as if the gomen would step in to give them any money. me thinks by not allowing these people to withdraw for a few years it buys them time since it involves billions a year. A few years its more than tens of billions which they can use to save whatever disasters they have created.

cskok8
11-04-2015, 11:42 AM
This BN govt is eyeing ANY money it can lay its hands on. Apparently the KWAP (the govt pension fund) has already "loaned" some money to 1MDB

bslee
11-04-2015, 12:03 PM
Look! Factors listed below (generalizing as I see it)..then draw your own conclusion.

1) Large percentage contributors weren't high earners and 3rd world salaries, ending up poor, thereon never enough to last a decade.
2) Inflation and COL have hit us. 1980's and 2015 are 2 different era. Many contributed from those poor salaries and by 2015 when retire, even poorer due to COL. If trim trim trim lifestyle?..probably spartan rural lifestyle and eat extremely frugally. Most people desire to keep up to higher lifestyle..at least terrace home, medium cost apartment and decent belongings. Urban poor are increasing and salaries not rising rapidly.
3)At least RM1.5 to 2million savings needed for decent, just comfortable urban lifestyle or keep going. Don't hope on offspring to support you when old. You're lucky if they place you at old folks home or you can live with them.
4) I've come across many even now don't bother to save anything, enjoy enjoy all what's out there..makan2 here, makan2 there (not that its cheap), shopping here n there every weekend or holiday, outstation whenever feel like it, etc, etc..all spending unnecessarily.."need to basis" is quite a distant thought. Lastly, they would think EPF by 60 would be enough.
I think most with insufficient savings don't realise anything yet. The future is very uncertain here.

cml
11-04-2015, 12:04 PM
At the rate they are going, they are running out of funds to milk and this is one way. In the name of thinking for the rakyat. Bunch of blood suckers

Jennylim
11-04-2015, 01:25 PM
Is private sector retirement age 60? I knew when I signed my last employment letter, it started clearly that the retirement age was 55. Unless and until a new letter is issued to revise the retirement age, you are to retire at 55. My friend in GLC, asked to retire at 56 last year and is now on contract service.

May be if EPF want to change to 60, should only apply to civil servants.

kuma
11-04-2015, 01:36 PM
It is not so bad. Try Googling Cyprus bail-in & Cyprus bank raids.

Yep.....It ain't 'so bad' after all......The Cyprus tree is still standing, not to sure about the leaves :laugh: .....Besides.....thats on the other side of the world,.....out here, they would 'never dream' of doing such. ;)

Here's another scary thing they are doing out West. fortunately we are in the East....and in the land of the blessed. :)


'Bank Deposits No Longer Guaranteed By Austrian Government'
"Bank deposits in Austria will no longer enjoy state protection and a state guarantee in the event of bank runs and a bank collapse......plan to ensure that the state is no longer responsible for insuring deposits"

http://www.goldcore.com/ie/wp-content/uploads/sites/19/2015/04/goldcore_chart2_9-04-15.png


>>Read More Here<< (http://goo.gl/3vGmfT)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5grdfnGUss

"Ohh, sad eyes
Turn the other way
I don't want to see you cry
Sad eyes
You knew there'd come a day
When we would have to say goodbye"

Greenwich
11-04-2015, 02:07 PM
Is private sector retirement age 60? I knew when I signed my last employment letter, it started clearly that the retirement age was 55. Unless and until a new letter is issued to revise the retirement age, you are to retire at 55. My friend in GLC, asked to retire at 56 last year and is now on contract service.

May be if EPF want to change to 60, should only apply to civil servants.

No such thing of different retirement age for public staff and private sector staff..

Read page 7 of the Minimum Retirement Age Act 2012... http://www.mohr.gov.my/pdf/ACT_753_MRA2012.pdf

For EPF full withdrawal, at present moment, it is still at age of 55 but employee can choose not to withdraw.

The crux of the discussion here is your 1gomen wanted to change the full withdrawal to age 60. It is still a proposal, I am not worried.. ;)

Greenwich
11-04-2015, 02:17 PM
At the rate they are going, they are running out of funds to milk and this is one way. In the name of thinking for the rakyat. Bunch of blood suckers

Not to worry too much, in my opinion.

The billions of money in the EPF coffer are always the target for them for decades but it is not easy to milk. What they do with the money is beyond the contributors' control. The direct relevant question is whether the money is still there and with the annual dividend at the end of the financial year..

The EPF Act guarantees a minimum of 2.5% dividend annually. In other words, your principal money must be there with the 2.5% dividend every year, at least.... http://www.kwsp.gov.my/portal/en/members/member-responsibility/registration/benefits-as-an-epf-member

Not saying I trust the 1gomen. I trust my myself..

Naka
11-04-2015, 03:20 PM
J

As you know under the current rules you can empty your Account #2 when you reach 50 and Account #1 at 55.
I guess the amendment would make it age 55 and 60 respectively. It means EPF will hang on to your money for five more years.

It also mean more money from which the Government can borrow. It is always better to borrow in your own currency than foreign ones and subject to the uncertainties of exchange rates.

It is not so bad. Try Googling Cyprus bail-in & Cyprus bank raids.

Although the gahman hangs onto your money, I still think the return of abt 6% is good with no loss to your amount & u dun hv to worry days & nights into it.

Boleh Banks give you less than 6%.

No need to check Cyprus affairs, here in kangaroo land, there are over 400 superannuation (that's what it called here) funds whereas Boleh has 1 & that is EPF.

You think all these over 400 superannuation funds make money......you will be shock.

Google & read all about it....& you won't complain about the 6% divi.

I know of friends who lost 40% of their super funds & we are taking in hundred of thousands of Oz dollars or over AUD550k....they cried so much until they ran out of tears:eek:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-31/kohler-australia-super-disgrace/4343108

& other links too.

Naka
11-04-2015, 03:28 PM
J

As you know under the current rules you can empty your Account #2 when you reach 50 and Account #1 at 55.
I guess the amendment would make it age 55 and 60 respectively. It means EPF will hang on to your money for five more years.

It also mean more money from which the Government can borrow. It is always better to borrow in your own currency than foreign ones and subject to the uncertainties of exchange rates.

It is not so bad. Try Googling Cyprus bail-in & Cyprus bank raids.

True, not so bad, I understand the concern of Malaysians.

I think if the Ringgit devalues further & further in the future, then it is time to worry.

bslee
11-04-2015, 03:42 PM
I think if the Ringgit devalues further & further in the future, then it is time to worry.
My perception is its already devalued and simply means your RM10 or RM100 don't buy you things you could do 2 decades back. Of course prices of goods do appreciate, but when with RM10 and it buys roughly 1 out of 5 when previously you could buy 3 out of 5..still not very angry ah! Your VFM is down the longkang at present!..as far as I'm concerned. I just look from a realist POV.

ng
11-04-2015, 04:16 PM
My perception is its already devalued and simply means your RM10 or RM100 don't buy you things you could do 2 decades back. Of course prices of goods do appreciate, but when with RM10 and it buys roughly 1 out of 5 when previously you could buy 3 out of 5..still not very angry ah! Your VFM is down the longkang at present!..as far as I'm concerned. I just look from a realist POV.

Below we have somebody saying that Malaysia will be an 'advanced' country by 2020.
Who is right, who is wrong?

Quote "Soon, the 30 million or so Malaysians in 2020 would feel the pride of Malaysia as an advance economy."

http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2015/04/11/Najib-Malaysia-on-Track/

Henry T
11-04-2015, 04:26 PM
The best liars are those who believe their own propaganda. ;-)

Naka
11-04-2015, 05:07 PM
My perception is its already devalued and simply means your RM10 or RM100 don't buy you things you could do 2 decades back. Of course prices of goods do appreciate, but when with RM10 and it buys roughly 1 out of 5 when previously you could buy 3 out of 5..still not very angry ah! Your VFM is down the longkang at present!..as far as I'm concerned. I just look from a realist POV.

I think other countries eg Indonesia is worst

Greenwich
11-04-2015, 06:30 PM
I think other countries eg Indonesia is worst

Yups, you are absolutely right.. http://www.indonesia-investments.com/news/todays-headlines/downward-spiral-indonesian-rupiah-falls-beyond-13-200-per-usd/item5381

Quoted : " Regarding Indonesia, the spotlight remains sharply focused on the drastically depreciating rupiah exchange rate. However, although most Asian emerging currencies are weakening against the US dollar, the rupiah is particularly vulnerable as Indonesia is plagued by a wide current account deficit, which informs investors that the country is relying on foreign capital inflows. "

Indonesia depends on export of commodities. Unfortunately, commodity price of palm oil and mineral ores like iron and coal, etc. are all plummeting. Here is a good summary of falling coal prices from 2009 - 2015.

Quoted : " The Coal averaged 91.44 from 2009 until 2015, reaching an all time high of 139.05 in January of 2011 and a record low of 54.80 in April of 2015.. "

You see, from 139 USD/MT in 2011 to 55 USD/MT in April 2015, the price has dropped 60% !! :eek:

Look at the chart here : http://www.tradingeconomics.com/commodity/coal

kwchang
11-04-2015, 06:38 PM
I think other countries eg Indonesia is worst

As some would say, don't compare with the lower ranks (my apologies to Indonesia)
So shall we compare with our more successful neighbour?
They have a much higher cost of living (http://blog.moneysmart.sg/opinion/you-now-have-the-right-to-complain-singapore-ranked-the-worlds-most-expensive-city/)
If you think that is a skewed view, the what did the Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/jan/05/the-price-of-life-in-singapore-city-of-rules-its-a-faustian-deal) say recently?

Naka
11-04-2015, 06:56 PM
Ppl
As some would say, don't compare with the lower ranks (my apologies to Indonesia)
So shall we compare with our more successful neighbour?
They have a much higher cost of living (http://blog.moneysmart.sg/opinion/you-now-have-the-right-to-complain-singapore-ranked-the-worlds-most-expensive-city/)
If you think that is a skewed view, the what did the Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/jan/05/the-price-of-life-in-singapore-city-of-rules-its-a-faustian-deal) say recently?


I compared the EPF of Malaysia where there is still a 6% divi vs some of the Super of Australia where members lost as much as 40% of their total sum, where were you then?:D

Naka
11-04-2015, 07:34 PM
Yups, you are absolutely right.. http://www.indonesia-investments.com/news/todays-headlines/downward-spiral-indonesian-rupiah-falls-beyond-13-200-per-usd/item5381

Quoted : " Regarding Indonesia, the spotlight remains sharply focused on the drastically depreciating rupiah exchange rate. However, although most Asian emerging currencies are weakening against the US dollar, the rupiah is particularly vulnerable as Indonesia is plagued by a wide current account deficit, which informs investors that the country is relying on foreign capital inflows. "

Indonesia depends on export of commodities. Unfortunately, commodity price of palm oil and mineral ores like iron and coal, etc. are all plummeting. Here is a good summary of falling coal prices from 2009 - 2015.

Quoted : " The Coal averaged 91.44 from 2009 until 2015, reaching an all time high of 139.05 in January of 2011 and a record low of 54.80 in April of 2015.. "

You see, from 139 USD/MT in 2011 to 55 USD/MT in April 2015, the price has dropped 60% !! :eek:

Look at the chart here : http://www.tradingeconomics.com/commodity/coal

Hehehe, I still have a few millions Rupiah of Sukarno Era but couldn't have them changed in normal Indonesian Banks. Was advised to change in a certain Gohman Bank.:eek:

HTCHONG
11-04-2015, 07:49 PM
As some would say, don't compare with the lower ranks (my apologies to Indonesia)
So shall we compare with our more successful neighbour?
They have a much higher cost of living (http://blog.moneysmart.sg/opinion/you-now-have-the-right-to-complain-singapore-ranked-the-worlds-most-expensive-city/)
If you think that is a skewed view, the what did the Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/jan/05/the-price-of-life-in-singapore-city-of-rules-its-a-faustian-deal) say recently?

Chang, don't talk about currency conversion. Today, in Singapore, I still can get a small cup of coffee at 70 cents, 90 cents to $1 for a bigger cup coffee. Chup Fan with 2 meats & 1 veggie between $3 to $3.50, Nasi lemak with 1 fried chicken wing, 1 fried egg and ikan bilis at $2, fried carrot cake at $2.5. Go to Serangoon central next to Nex shopping mall, the buns with fillings like sardine, tuna, cheese & etc selling at 60 cents per bun.

Of course there is inflation in Singapore, tell me which countries don't have inflation. Survey yourself to see the reality.

Greenwich
11-04-2015, 08:03 PM
Hehehe, I still have a few millions Rupiah of Sukarno Era but couldn't have them changed in normal Indonesian Banks. Was advised to change in a certain Gohman Bank.:eek:

Ayoyo, millions of Sukarno Rupiah.. :laugh:

Better keep them for future antique value la ..

I bet this million nusantara money is not enough to cover the expenses - flight ticket, hotel accommodation, food and taxi, etc to go to the gomen bank in this country la..

Naka
11-04-2015, 08:12 PM
Ayoyo, millions of Sukarno Rupiah.. :laugh:

Better keep them for future antique value la ..

I bet this million nusantara money is not enough to cover the expenses - flight ticket, hotel accommodation, food and taxi, etc to go to the gomen bank in this country la..

Not in Boleh lah but Indonesia.

Greenwich
11-04-2015, 08:16 PM
Chang, don't talk about currency conversion. Today, in Singapore, I still can get a small cup of coffee at 70 cents, 90 cents to $1 for a bigger cup coffee. Chup Fan with 2 meats & 1 veggie between $3 to $3.50, Nasi lemak with 1 fried chicken wing, 1 fried egg and ikan bilis at $2, fried carrot cake at $2.5. Go to Serangoon central next to Nex shopping mall, the buns with fillings like sardine, tuna, cheese & etc selling at 60 cents per bun.

Of course there is inflation in Singapore, tell me which countries don't have inflation. Survey yourself to see the reality.

Yes, the SGD is anytime a higher purchasing power currency.

I always remember in the early 2000, a nice armchair in IKEA Singapore was about SGD400. When I went to IKEA in One Utama (it was at one Utama then only shifted to Ikano), I have to pay RM700 for the same item. This was more than 10 years ago..

Can't imagine how much I have to pay now for the same item ??

Greenwich
11-04-2015, 08:16 PM
Not in Boleh lah but Indonesia.

Yes, I mean Indonesia.. not here.

Naka
11-04-2015, 08:22 PM
Yes, I mean Indonesia.. not here.

OFF -TOPIC..

Will try again next year

kwchang
11-04-2015, 09:06 PM
...still have a few millions Rupiah of Sukarno Era but couldn't have them changed in normal Indonesian Banks...
== off topic ==
Actually, if currency notes or coins are no longer in circulation, wouldn't it have collector value? I believe one can get much higher returns from a numismatic trader

Sentinel
12-04-2015, 02:12 AM
Chang, don't talk about currency conversion. Today, in Singapore, I still can get a small cup of coffee at 70 cents, 90 cents to $1 for a bigger cup coffee. Chup Fan with 2 meats & 1 veggie between $3 to $3.50, Nasi lemak with 1 fried chicken wing, 1 fried egg and ikan bilis at $2, fried carrot cake at $2.5. Go to Serangoon central next to Nex shopping mall, the buns with fillings like sardine, tuna, cheese & etc selling at 60 cents per bun.

Of course there is inflation in Singapore, tell me which countries don't have inflation. Survey yourself to see the reality.

HTChong.... forgive the moderator.... doubt he understand "purchasing power parity (PPP)"

bslee
12-04-2015, 12:18 PM
Amcorp Mall flea market got quite a few vendors in this trade, good place to consult them.

Henry T
12-04-2015, 04:29 PM
That would depend on how rare they are. If there are millions of them in existence, it won't be worth much even if they are 100 years old

I have plenty of those out of circulation one Sen and one Ringgit coins. I'll be very happy if someone can offer me half the value. :laugh:

Jennylim
15-04-2015, 11:18 AM
So, if EPF fix it at 60, what is going to happen to those have to retire at 55?

http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2015/04/15/Many-lawmakers-give-the-thumbs-down-to-EPF-proposal/

cml
15-04-2015, 11:38 AM
If they are so damn concerned about the people, they should offer those who have reached 55 an added incentive to keep their money there e.g give another 3 % over and on top of the 6% or so they declare every year. In that way many people would want to keep their money there till they are 100 years old!!!. Imagine they pay out 30 plus billion every year. If they enforce this rule it means they have the bulk of this amount to play around with. 5 years they will have 150 billion to plug whatever leakages .

Scooty
15-04-2015, 11:40 AM
to plug whatever leakages .:mua-haha::mua-haha: You don't mince your words, do you?

cml
15-04-2015, 11:43 AM
This con job they have been trying to pull every once a while. the last few years they have tried at least 2/3 times. first time was to pay a pension instead of allowing one to withdraw. that was shot down. another one was the same as this bullshit. the line they use is always the same, contributors will finish within 3 years of withdrawal and so on. 70% have less than 50k. ... If they keep another 5 years it would not grow to 198k which they maintain is the amount needed to provide 800 per month for another 20 years. all the rehashed bullshit. Only by different so called ceos of epf

Naka
15-04-2015, 02:02 PM
Recent exchange rate of Ringgit is not favourable.

3729

HTCHONG
17-04-2015, 03:37 PM
....Singapore has tougher withdrawal rules for retires to "prevent" people form finishing their retirement money too soon. Like it or not, when majority of people don't have enough money to retire, it is a social problem.....

I was quite tied down last week to reply your post. Nonetheless, following write up provides some correct perspectives of Singapore CPF scheme.

Immediately after last year National Day, PM Lee Hsien Loong asked the Members of Parliament (MPs) in one of the parliament sittings to raise their hand if they truly understand our CPF scheme. Unfortunately, it was only a handful showed their hands. Frankly, me too only learn more about it lately.

For the past couple of days, I have been reading the EPF scheme. In my best knowledge, I guess both CPF and EPF started off with about the same objective which in my view it is just a Fixed Deposit saving plan except with higher interest rate than commercial banks.

In a nutshell, upon maturity, the retirees entitle to withdraw the accrued lump sum with interest added. The withdrawn lump sum need to be properly managed by individual for his old age living and medical cares – nothing more nothing less.

However, over the years, CPF has evolved to become a totally different game plan. CPF is a lifelong income with healthcare protection scheme for the old age until one’s passing. Therefore, it is called CPF-Life.

The key points of CPF-Life are as follow:

• Upon 65yo, the retiree will receive monthly payout according to the minimum sum that pledged when he turns 55 yo. (see following table).

• The pledged minimum sum can be converted from CPF accounts or top up by cash.

• The monthly payout will continue till the day of his passing even though the minimum sum may have consumed fully.

• Should there is any leftover on the minimum sum from the monthly payout, the remaining amount will be given to his nominees.

• The monthly payout is for living expenses. Medical expenses are taken care by Medisave account and medical insurance under CPF scheme such as Medishield Life Scheme.

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b560/HTChong/CPF-Life-monthly-payouts_zpsunr4bcgz.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/HTChong/media/CPF-Life-monthly-payouts_zpsunr4bcgz.jpg.html)

Upon 55 yo, one can withdraw the surplus from his CPF account after minus the pledged minimum sum for his CPF Life plan. Following is the simple illustration of CPF life.

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b560/HTChong/CPF%20life_zps1hfagrbz.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/HTChong/media/CPF%20life_zps1hfagrbz.jpg.html)

Challenger
18-04-2015, 10:23 AM
I was quite tied down last week to reply your post. Nonetheless, following write up provides some correct perspectives of Singapore CPF scheme.

Immediately after last year National Day, PM Lee Hsien Loong asked the Members of Parliament (MPs) in one of the parliament sittings to raise their hand if they truly understand our CPF scheme. Unfortunately, it was only a handful showed their hands. Frankly, me too only learn more about it lately.

For the past couple of days, I have been reading the EPF scheme. In my best knowledge, I guess both CPF and EPF started off with about the same objective which in my view it is just a Fixed Deposit saving plan except with higher interest rate than commercial banks.

In a nutshell, upon maturity, the retirees entitle to withdraw the accrued lump sum with interest added. The withdrawn lump sum need to be properly managed by individual for his old age living and medical cares – nothing more nothing less.

However, over the years, CPF has evolved to become a totally different game plan. CPF is a lifelong income with healthcare protection scheme for the old age until one’s passing. Therefore, it is called CPF-Life.

The key points of CPF-Life are as follow:

• Upon 65yo, the retiree will receive monthly payout according to the minimum sum that pledged when he turns 55 yo. (see following table).

• The pledged minimum sum can be converted from CPF accounts or top up by cash.

• The monthly payout will continue till the day of his passing even though the minimum sum may have consumed fully.

• Should there is any leftover on the minimum sum from the monthly payout, the remaining amount will be given to his nominees.

• The monthly payout is for living expenses. Medical expenses are taken care by Medisave account and medical insurance under CPF scheme such as Medishield Life Scheme.

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b560/HTChong/CPF-Life-monthly-payouts_zpsunr4bcgz.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/HTChong/media/CPF-Life-monthly-payouts_zpsunr4bcgz.jpg.html)

Upon 55 yo, one can withdraw the surplus from his CPF account after minus the pledged minimum sum for his CPF Life plan. Following is the simple illustration of CPF life.

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b560/HTChong/CPF%20life_zps1hfagrbz.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/HTChong/media/CPF%20life_zps1hfagrbz.jpg.html)

In other words, a CPF contributor can never ever withdraw his CPF money in full over his life. Is that correct. If he lives till 90, he still can never withdraw all his CPF money.

And the part where CPF contributor needs to pledge his property to withdraw some of his own money is funny.

Looks like PAP screwed the Singkies real bad.

HTCHONG
18-04-2015, 12:21 PM
In other words, a CPF contributor can never ever withdraw his CPF money in full over his life. Is that correct. If he lives till 90, he still can never withdraw all his CPF money.

And the part where CPF contributor needs to pledge his property to withdraw some of his own money is funny.

Looks like PAP screwed the Singkies real bad.

In average, the minimum sum will deplete in 10 ~11 years. In other words, by the age of 74~75yo, one will have nothing left in his CPF account. If he lives beyond 74 or 75yo, the monthly payout by Singapore government is given FREE to him. If he lives up to 90 yo, up to nearly S$350,000 is given free depend on his monthly payout. This is on top of medical care expenses. So what is that for a person with 90 yo to take back from his CPF account?!

Pledging of property is to help the low income group in the scenario IF they can’t meet the minimum sum. Their HDB unit can be used as part of the minimum sum so that they are not left out to enjoy similar benefits like others.

Either you don’t read or you have intention to mislead. PAP screw Singkies real bad?! Really?!

From your past comments, I guess you have personal hatred against PAP government for whatever reasons that only you know.

Firefly
18-04-2015, 12:41 PM
When is this going to be finalized? I am 56 this year, can I still withdraw my account 2? Need to make some retirement investment.

cml
18-04-2015, 12:51 PM
You are 56. you can withdraw every single sen today. Dont wait for them to change the rule unless you want to keep the money there.

Henry T
18-04-2015, 01:12 PM
You are 56. you can withdraw every single sen today. Dont wait for them to change the rule unless you want to keep the money there.

Withdraw and deposit in the bank and earn less than half the dividend? Or leave the money under the bed and earn nothing? This is the dilemma.

Mat Bruce
18-04-2015, 02:06 PM
The ONLY reason that they are doing this IS because the problem is becoming UNMANAGEABLE. It is one way to manage the big baby boomers populations retiring en-mass. If you have paid off your own house and wisely invested into shops, returning net RM10-15K every month, would this be a problem to you?
I never buy into this rubbish because when you really need the $$, it is in someone's else hands and they can say any #$% they want.
In future, the rules will become more strict, they will make you go thru means test before you can qualify. Don't forget, the government have to feed millions of government workers who retiring too, so your private money needs to work for them too. When I reach 55, I will make sure I extract every ringgit that I worked for and trust myself to invest it where I want to. if I make a mistake and lose it , at least not someone else lost my money.

Challenger
18-04-2015, 06:37 PM
In average, the minimum sum will deplete in 10 ~11 years. In other words, by the age of 74~75yo, one will have nothing left in his CPF account. If he lives beyond 74 or 75yo, the monthly payout by Singapore government is given FREE to him. If he lives up to 90 yo, up to nearly S$350,000 is given free depend on his monthly payout. This is on top of medical care expenses. So what is that for a person with 90 yo to take back from his CPF account?!

Pledging of property is to help the low income group in the scenario IF they can’t meet the minimum sum. Their HDB unit can be used as part of the minimum sum so that they are not left out to enjoy similar benefits like others.

Either you don’t read or you have intention to mislead. PAP screw Singkies real bad?! Really?!

From your past comments, I guess you have personal hatred against PAP government for whatever reasons that only you know.

Me hate PAP government? Why should I hate them? Pls don't imagine I hate PAP.

I still do not understand the CPF scheme. The simple Q of most EPF/CPF contributors is when can I withdraw all my money. Simple Q and in case of EPF, the answer is simple. In case of CPF, when can a contributor withdraw all his money? I have no answer to this.

Avg lifespan of a person is about 73. If I were 55/60 years old I want all my money back (CPF or EPF). I still think pledging property to withdraw contributor's own money is silly.

Mat Bruce
18-04-2015, 08:57 PM
in Australia, they are thinking of proposing mean tests ...i.e if you hold valuable properties. you cannot get your pension, just on your superannuation (EPF).so rules changes.

kuma
18-04-2015, 09:26 PM
Withdraw and deposit in the bank and earn less than half the dividend? Or leave the money under the bed and earn nothing? This is the dilemma.

Sometimes, especially at 'these times'....."leaving the money under the bed and earn nothing"......maybe and option to consider :rolleyes:.......making a 'buck on your buck' isn't always the end game.....there are times when you need to 'tuck your buck' safely away :)

Consider this article......tho' I always emphasize that such a scenario can never :rolleyes: happen here ....but hey, read it anyway to educate yourself :heheheh:

Quote last para:
The bottom line is that we are starting to see the early phases of a liquidity squeeze. The flow of credit is going to begin to get tighter, and that means that global economic activity is going to slow down. This happened during the last financial crisis, and during this next financial crisis the credit crunch is going to be even worse.

This is why it is so important to have an emergency fund. During this type of crisis, you may have to be the source of your own liquidity. At a time when it seems like nobody has any cash, those that do have some will be way ahead of the game."

'The Global Liquidity Squeeze Has Begun' >>>Read Here<<< (http://goo.gl/tk8oM0)


----------------------------------------------------------
And if you read the above......

And then horrors upon horrors.....I should have never scared myself by reading this article :eek:......What in the world is happening out in the 'wild wild west'?......I hope those blokes will stop scaring us by writing these crapy scary stuff.....Like, who needs to know these things anyway???.....Phew! The West is so so far away....thank god I'm living out East :rolleyes:

Quote:
"What in the world are the elite up to? In recent days, we have learned that......."

'Signs That 'The Elites' Are Feverishly Preparing For Something Big' >>Read@ZH<< (http://goo.gl/sDpJV2)

kuma
18-04-2015, 09:57 PM
With discussions and concerns about 'our $$'.....whether in hand or someone hold it on our behalf.....I figure this is the correct Thread to post this vid.....Mod, move it to some 'sub-oblivion',....if you so choose :)

Freefall Monday Ahead??


https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=81&v=CE43wGO1EM8

Firefly
18-04-2015, 10:56 PM
Not enough to put into a shop. Leave it there and earn miserable returns or worst, loose it all it ...... collapse. Think empty acc 2, pay off the roof over my head.

ng
19-04-2015, 09:29 AM
http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2015/04/19/Too-poor-to-retire-Concerned-that-an-alarmingly-high-number-of-54yearold-Malaysians-have-less-than-R/

EPF is saying that a lot of Malaysians don't know how to manage their money once they withdraw their money.

But who is causing the very high inflation of recent years?

cml
19-04-2015, 12:10 PM
Of course if you withdraw your money and keep it in a bank or under your mattress it will not generate a return higher than epf, that is for sure. However if you, like many others decides to put the money in a property which can generate rental as well as capital appreciation ( no sure thing ) then it would be a better thing to do than keeping the money in epf who may change the rules of the game and in which case you lose the flexibility of being able to decide yourself what you want to do with the money. For those who have 50k in epf at 55, even if you put it there till you die , you still will not have much . unless epf says that for those who keeps their money after 55 will get 10% guaranteed return then i would be the first one to not withdraw my money from there.

ng
19-04-2015, 12:51 PM
. For those who have 50k in epf at 55, even if you put it there till you die , you still will not have much . unless epf says that for those who keeps their money after 55 will get 10% guaranteed return then i would be the first one to not withdraw my money from there.

Actually, the real inflation rate is higher than the rate that EPF gives.

The basket of inflation rate goods is extremely unrealistic which doesn't include housing, car.
Car is a necessity in Malaysia unlike other countries where the public transportation is excellent.

The govt reports 3% inflation rate every year but I see the price of goods going up by more than 10%.

cml
19-04-2015, 02:25 PM
So unless one puts it in a appreciating asset or in the casino, oops klse where there may be a likeliood of getting returns better than the inflation rate, the choices are very limited. Prices of houses have doubled up over these last few years so that may be the only alternative. Of course things like location counts. In the meantime the general population is getting enslaved

HTCHONG
19-04-2015, 02:56 PM
Me hate PAP government? Why should I hate them? Pls don't imagine I hate PAP.

I still do not understand the CPF scheme. The simple Q of most EPF/CPF contributors is when can I withdraw all my money. Simple Q and in case of EPF, the answer is simple. In case of CPF, when can a contributor withdraw all his money? I have no answer to this.

Avg lifespan of a person is about 73. If I were 55/60 years old I want all my money back (CPF or EPF). I still think pledging property to withdraw contributor's own money is silly.

73 yo lifespan? Where do you plug this number from? Official statistics from Singapore Government, Singstat says the average lifespan in Singapore is 82.5 yo.
Simply quoting a number for your argument doesn’t reflect good on you, it gives impression to others either dishonesty or simply bias for reasons that only you know.

http://www.singstat.gov.sg/docs/default-source/default-document-library/statistics/visualising_data/life-expectancy.pdf

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b560/HTChong/Life%20expectancy%20singapore_zpsphndlmaw.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/HTChong/media/Life%20expectancy%20singapore_zpsphndlmaw.jpg.html )


Now, in my earlier post I said this, one will deplete his CPF minimum sum within 10~11 years. So, from 74 or 75yo onward, the monthly payout to individual is FREE despite no money left in his CPF account. With an average lifespan of 82.5 years, in average a retired Singaporean will receive additional 7.5 years of free monthly payout or additional 70% of his originally pledged minimum sum. Obviously, the longer he lives the more he gets. So, in a layman term, one will get additional S$70,000 in return on top of S$100,000 principal sum. What is the problem with this kind of investment?! Which investment company will give such a whopping return?! I guess some children may not even offer such a good deal to their own parents.;)

Have you ever seen old folks with no dependents or neglected by their children? This group of pioneer generation has very minimum savings and has no life or health insurances to take care of their old age needs. Fortunately, under our housing policy, regardless of financial background, nearly all adults have a roof on top of their head. I repeatedly saying this, pledging of property is to help this low income group in particular. This is to give them assurance and worriless as long as they live in this island nation that there is shelter over their heads be it shine or rain, they will not be hungry be it they have dependents or not and their health will be taken care when they are weak or sick. :)

Perhaps, this is silly to you. Fortunately, we have a group of officers and Perm Sec with their hearts for the less able community. Our mission is to build an inclusive society ensuring no one leave behind as the nation progress. We don’t look for simple solution to your simple question for a complex social safety net to protect all walks of life in this nation. Or else, in years to come, our aging population will be like the Cantonese says “colder than water – dong gou sui”. By the way, have you ever seen any beggars or homeless people in Singapore? ;)

I guess I’ve said enough about CPF in this forum and it is your time to worry about your hard earned money before anything silly crop up. Good luck.:)

Mat Bruce
19-04-2015, 03:05 PM
So unless one puts it in a appreciating asset or in the casino, oops klse where there may be a likeliood of getting returns better than the inflation rate, the choices are very limited. Prices of houses have doubled up over these last few years so that may be the only alternative. Of course things like location counts. In the meantime the general population is getting enslaved

This is why they make the environment a 'rat race'.

Mat Bruce
19-04-2015, 03:07 PM
Of course if you withdraw your money and keep it in a bank or under your mattress it will not generate a return higher than epf, that is for sure. However if you, like many others decides to put the money in a property which can generate rental as well as capital appreciation ( no sure thing ) then it would be a better thing to do than keeping the money in epf who may change the rules of the game and in which case you lose the flexibility of being able to decide yourself what you want to do with the money. For those who have 50k in epf at 55, even if you put it there till you die , you still will not have much . unless epf says that for those who keeps their money after 55 will get 10% guaranteed return then i would be the first one to not withdraw my money from there.


EPF is like a forced saving. For most people who do not know what money is all about. Do not want to think about it, then EPF is better than Genting.

Mat Bruce
19-04-2015, 03:14 PM
http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2015/04/19/Too-poor-to-retire-Concerned-that-an-alarmingly-high-number-of-54yearold-Malaysians-have-less-than-R/

EPF is saying that a lot of Malaysians don't know how to manage their money once they withdraw their money.

But who is causing the very high inflation of recent years?

You see how desperate they are? Friday - a small article, Sat- a bigger article, Sun - 2 big pages Mon - they will have a forum to discuss. Those who wants to keep their money in EPF can but don't force the rest of us to do so.

Jennylim
19-04-2015, 11:42 PM
http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2015/04/19/Too-poor-to-retire-Concerned-that-an-alarmingly-high-number-of-54yearold-Malaysians-have-less-than-R/

EPF is saying that a lot of Malaysians don't know how to manage their money once they withdraw their money.



I haven't gave much thought to this, I don't understand what business does EPF has in whether people spend all their money or not after withdrawal, as though EPF will have to provide for your expenses if you spend all your money.

Sentinel
20-04-2015, 01:08 AM
You see how desperate they are? Friday - a small article, Sat- a bigger article, Sun - 2 big pages Mon - they will have a forum to discuss. Those who wants to keep their money in EPF can but don't force the rest of us to do so.

I will keep my money in EPF if they table an amendment in Parliament to the EPF legislation : The provident fund is prohibited by law at all time lend any of members' funds to the government and neither has the Minister of Finance has any jurisdiction nor the mandate to overrule and supersede this prohibition.

cml
20-04-2015, 11:22 AM
They dont lend to the gomen per se but they ïnvest in companies like FGV and maybe if the power plants by imdb were to be listed. If no one picks it up in the open market they would come in to sapu all to show that it as investor support, also the same.

Sentinel
20-04-2015, 03:05 PM
They dont lend to the gomen per se but they ïnvest in companies like FGV and maybe if the power plants by imdb were to be listed. If no one picks it up in the open market they would come in to sapu all to show that it as investor support, also the same.

Those power plants have their PPA nearing expiry and even if the PPAs are renewed the plant machineries (read : expensive turbines) are old... WTF did 1MDB buy them in the first place and at such a premium price? At the end of the day, the type of people hired not based on meritocracy but based on kulitfication are running the biggest conglomerates in Bolehland using your hard-earned tax money as modal....

cml
20-04-2015, 05:23 PM
make or lose money they dont care. you think they give a shit how much the company makes? like you said basically without a renewal of the ipp agreement those power plants are worthless. they have already made their money and just like you have a 20 year old proton, after 20 years someone offers you 50k to take if off you. why would anyone do that you ask? this is exactly what is happening but we are not privy to the under counter deal. even if someone was to offer 3k it is good value but 50k? you draw your own conclusion la

Greenwich
20-04-2015, 05:41 PM
EPF is like a forced saving. For most people who do not know what money is all about. Do not want to think about it, then EPF is better than Genting.

Really.. ;)

I guess it depends on 2 things:

(1) your risk tolerance
(2) the quantum of your principal sum.

I don't thin I need to elaborate (1), risk tolerance is very individual.

For (2), if you have a sum that is significant to give you a comfortable living even with a "low return" of 5%, I don't see why the money should be invested in higher risk-higher return instrument. At the end of the day, it is how much the real $$$ that count, not the rate of investment alone.

Back to EPF proposed amendment, the key fundamental to me is the money must be there (I am convinced the money will be there). What they do with the money and how they do are beyond my control and other depositors' control. Just like when I buy a guarantee-return fixed income instrument form bank. What the bank do with the money is none of my business as long as at the end of the contract, I get my principal sum back together with the guaranteed return albeit a lower return than average market return.

Greenwich
20-04-2015, 06:44 PM
......However, over the years, CPF has evolved to become a totally different game plan. CPF is a lifelong income with healthcare protection scheme for the old age until one's passing. Therefore, it is called CPF-Life.

The key points of CPF-Life are as follow:

- Upon 65yo, the retiree will receive monthly payout according to the minimum sum that pledged when he turns 55 yo. (see following table).

- The pledged minimum sum can be converted from CPF accounts or top up by cash.

- The monthly payout will continue till the day of his passing even though the minimum sum may have consumed fully.


- Should there is any leftover on the minimum sum from the monthly payout, the remaining amount will be given to his nominees.

- The monthly payout is for living expenses. Medical expenses are taken care by Medisave account and medical insurance under CPF scheme such as Medishield Life Scheme.


In my opinion, the benefits (highlighted in blue font) are not free. The money that needed to provide these benefits do not come from the Singapore government, the money actually come from the CPF contributors.

Singaporeans pay the highest proportionate contribution into social security(CPF) in the world, 37% (20% from employee and 17% from employer, this contribution rate stays until 50 years old)). However, the dividend is only 3.5% on the Ordinary Account and 5% on the Special and Retirement Accounts. As you know, 62% of CPF money go to Ordinary Account. Please refer 2015... http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/Members/Gen-Info/Int-Rates/Int-Rates.htm

2015 is considered "good" return. The dividend for CPF ordinary account was around 2-3%, as far as I can remember during my days.

That bring to my question ---> If Malaysia which is highly regarded as less professionally run, less brain/talent and with all sorts of fxx#% nonsenses in money management still can give about average 5-6% for the past many years, why Singapore can't ??

I believe (I can be wrong) the money is used to fund the benefits as highlighted above. Nothing is free..

Bear in mind, the difference between average 3% and 5% compounding interest over a long period of time is HUGE..

kuma
20-04-2015, 10:19 PM
Recent exchange rate of Ringgit is not favourable.

3729

'Never mind the US$/RM exchange rate; look at RM/Baht' >>>Click Here<<< (http://goo.gl/JMWq73)

Naka
21-04-2015, 07:43 AM
'Never mind the US$/RM exchange rate; look at RM/Baht' >>>Click Here<<< (http://goo.gl/JMWq73)

Yes, things are not looking good:eek:

Charbroiled
21-04-2015, 09:14 AM
'Never mind the US$/RM exchange rate; look at RM/Baht' >>>Click Here<<< (http://goo.gl/JMWq73)Marvelous. We are doing the limbo rock. How low can we go? Very. What is the "Management" doing all this time to bring the country forward at least to be on par with Singapore? Huh? Huh?

ng
21-04-2015, 09:59 AM
http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2015/04/21/Four-choices-for-EPF-members-Fund-to-let-contributors-decide-and-give-their-views-online/

EPF consider raising the withdrawal age to 60.

So you guys who've just reached 55 better withdraw before they change.

I don't trust their so-called 'consultation' period because we don't know how valid they are.

ng
21-04-2015, 10:02 AM
Marvelous. We are doing the limbo rock. How low can we go? Very. What is the "Management" doing all this time to bring the country forward at least to be on par with Singapore? Huh? Huh?

Haven't you heard their answer in the past few months? They said 'it's not a problem'. Tidak ada masalah

latest is economy is doing well.

http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2015/04/21/DPM-Countrys-economy-doing-well-Healthy-growth-despite-latest-global-scenario-says-Muhyiddin/

kuma
21-04-2015, 10:29 AM
I will keep my money in EPF if they table an amendment in Parliament to the EPF legislation : The provident fund is prohibited by law at all time lend any of members' funds to the government and neither has the Minister of Finance has any jurisdiction nor the mandate to overrule and supersede this prohibition.

BTW.....this just happened far far away.....sheeesh, poor Greeks.....thank god our economy is doing well :)


'Greece Seizing all Public Funds in Country' >>>Read Here<<< (http://goo.gl/SSCECc)

"Greek government issued a decree that forces local governments to transfer all cash balances to the central bank".....says "extremely urgent and unforeseen need"

'Stunned Greeks React'.....>>Read More updates @ZeroHedge<< (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-04-20/stunned-greeks-react-initial-capital-controls-and-decree-confiscate-reserves-and-the)


Fortunately we are OK......:)>>>Read Here - DPM: Country’s economy doing well @The Star<<< (http://goo.gl/FQHQmN)

HTCHONG
21-04-2015, 12:49 PM
In my opinion, the benefits (highlighted in blue font) are not free. The money that needed to provide these benefits do not come from the Singapore government, the money actually come from the CPF contributors.

Singaporeans pay the highest proportionate contribution into social security(CPF) in the world, 37% (20% from employee and 17% from employer, this contribution rate stays until 50 years old)). However, the dividend is only 3.5% on the Ordinary Account and 5% on the Special and Retirement Accounts. As you know, 62% of CPF money go to Ordinary Account. Please refer 2015... http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/Members/Gen-Info/Int-Rates/Int-Rates.htm

2015 is considered "good" return. The dividend for CPF ordinary account was around 2-3%, as far as I can remember during my days.

That bring to my question ---> If Malaysia which is highly regarded as less professionally run, less brain/talent and with all sorts of fxx#% nonsenses in money management still can give about average 5-6% for the past many years, why Singapore can't ??

I believe (I can be wrong) the money is used to fund the benefits as highlighted above. Nothing is free..

Bear in mind, the difference between average 3% and 5% compounding interest over a long period of time is HUGE..

Greenwich, I remember you asked me this question about 2 years ago. I had no good answer then.;)

This question was posted in one of the parliament sittings on 8 Jul 2014. It is published in MOF (Ministry of Finance) website. Following link provides full speech of Tharman Shanmugaratnam (DPM & Minister of Finance) with pertaining to CPF interest rate and its investment. You may visit the website to read his full speech for more information. :)

http://www.mof.gov.sg/news-reader/articleid/1448/

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b560/HTChong/CPF%20speech_zpsuzvnqhgy.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/HTChong/media/CPF%20speech_zpsuzvnqhgy.jpg.html)


The crux of this discussion is neither to compare nor to show superiority on either side. It is like comparing the fixed deposit rate of Malaysia Bank which is about 4.5% versus Singapore of about 0.8%. I guess there must be a reason for the differences which is beyond my knowledge.

The important point here is whether with higher returns in CPF payout will it changes the risk-free nature of CPF accounts and its sustainability.

It is more important for us to create lasting policy and along the way we tweak or strengthen it to suit the situation. We should not create policy for popularity after all we have no intention to be a populist government. Similarly, a scheme like CPF should be sustainable so that in time to come it will not burden our tax payers or our next generation.

Nonetheless, since you touch on compound interests of both systems. Following are some points of overall consideration.

(a) Absolute dollar return

As I mentioned before, EPF is a much simpler scheme, it is like a fixed deposit saving plan with higher interest rate than commercial banking. Withdrawal is upon maturity (or 55yo) and EPF board has nothing to do you thereafter. One has to manage his EPF fund for his old age living and medical expenses. Whereas, CPF is a lifelong protection scheme for living and medical expenses when one goes into retirement till the day of his passing.

Due to its complexity, I simplify the CPF calculation based on compound interest of 3.5% (rough proportion from Ordinary Account of 3% and 5% for Special Account). The Retirement Account is 5%. Also, for simplicity purpose, I assume there is no withdrawal from the account too.

With reference to the following table, in a nutshell, the absolute dollar return for CPF-life is about S$487,036 (by right should be higher this number) whereas, EPF is about RM309,628. Despite the compound interest for CPF is 3.5% and 6% for EPF.

You may use the compound interest calculator here.

http://www.thecalculatorsite.com/finance/calculators/compoundinterestcalculator.php

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b560/HTChong/CPF%20Table_zpsoikaojpw.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/HTChong/media/CPF%20Table_zpsoikaojpw.jpg.html)

(b) Government subsidies on top of CPF dividend.

As mentioned in Tharman’s speech, with the Workfare Payments and Housing Grants given by Sg Government. When one sells his home to upgrade or downgrade later, the housing grant is returned to his Ordinary Account (OA) as part of his savings for retirement.

Based on current policies, these grants (amortized over his working life) will in effect grow his savings by at least 2.5% per year over a 30-40 year working life. In effect, his savings ‘earn’ 6% per annum through the combination of CPF interest rates and Government subsidies.

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b560/HTChong/CPF%20subsidy_zpsipufbrso.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/HTChong/media/CPF%20subsidy_zpsipufbrso.jpg.html)

(c) Other risk factors.

• Another extract from Tharman speech ….…"While the CPF scheme does not provide the highest returns, it gives fair returns and certainly one of the safest in the world. ….The interest rates are guaranteed by one of the few remaining triple-A rated governments in the world….”.

• Holistically, from consumer perspective, we also need to consider Purchasing Power Parity (PPP) index which is in tandem with the currency exchange.

cml
21-04-2015, 01:51 PM
the objectives of cpf and epf are very different. Moreover it is made known to the contibutor from the beginning. They may fine tune it but they should not change the rules of engagement half way.Whatever they do they should do it over a period of time so that people would know the rational as well as understand the need for the change.

cskok8
21-04-2015, 02:30 PM
The magic question is: if EPF were to be dissolved today, will there be enough money from disposal of its assets to pay all the depositors?

cml
21-04-2015, 04:13 PM
Thats a good question. a lot of money is in our own klse and it is that money which is keeping the market at these stratospheric levels. there is more contributions than withdrawals simply because there are more people coming into the workforce. so for the time being there will be enough money to pay off those yearly withdrawals. e.g. their investments in fgv, the value has dropped by half. I dont know about their asset recognition whether it is at book value or current market price. Even if it is at current market price it is ok because the entire market is inflated and closely held.

Greenwich
21-04-2015, 06:14 PM
I remember you asked me this question about 2 years ago. I had no good answer then.;)

This question was posted in one of the parliament sittings on 8 Jul 2014. It is published in MOF (Ministry of Finance) website.

As I mentioned before, EPF is a much simpler scheme, it is like a fixed deposit saving plan with higher interest rate than commercial banking. Withdrawal is upon maturity (or 55yo) and EPF board has nothing to do you thereafter. One has to manage his EPF fund for his old age living and medical expenses. Whereas, CPF is a lifelong protection scheme for living and medical expenses when one goes into retirement till the day of his passing.

Holistically, from consumer perspective, we also need to consider Purchasing Power Parity (PPP) index which is in tandem with the currency exchange.

HTCHONG,

I am not comparing which one (EPF or CPF) is more superior. I agree CPF is a more comprehensive social security scheme which take care not just in terms of savings but also the living expenses and healthcare of retiree.

As you know, there are different categories of income group, be it in Malaysia or Singapore. What CPF provides is probably the best for a lower income, lower-middle income and middle income Singaporean, but not for those in the upper income group.

Those in upper income don't need the medical insurance (their employer may have provide better coverage for them or they had bought their own medical insurance). They certainly don't need to worry of living expenses after retirement and hence monthly payout offered by CPF is meaningless to them. To these category of people, what is important to them is whether their big sum of money in CPF can grow as fast as market rate. That's why I repeatedly mentioned the question of compounding interest. In my opinion, these category of people had incurred HUGE losses over the decades due to the lower compounding interest from CPF.

You are correct to say that no matter how big the dividend from EPF, at the end of 55 year old, EPF money will be less than CPF money in absolute dollar even though the income of the contributor is the same figure, But it is unfair and it is wrong to compare compounding interest using absolute dollar because each country has different exchange rate. If your comparison is correct, than I will pity those Australians right now because the AUD actually had depreciated more than MYR against the USD.

I happened to have experience of both provident fund and I actually can see the difference. I know this country is badly run with all sorts of nonsenses but overall I find it still make sense to me in term of what the weak MYR can give to me here. I don't really bother about the lower PPP of MYR as it affects everyone here. Granted, I fell the pain when I travel abroad as MYR is such a blardy weak currency vs the EUR and USD but I only travel for leisure using my own money once a year, how bad the PPP can affect me ? I can never be poorer due to food expenses and I don't have to worry about mortgage since 15 years ago.

It is interesting to see how paranoid people can be about the proposed amendment from EPF. It actually tells the credibility of the 1gomen is completely zero and people will look at their whatever proposal from the most suspicious angle. To me, what EPF is proposing right now is nothing different with what CPF did when the retirement age in Singapore was changed from 55 to 65.

Mat Bruce
21-04-2015, 08:59 PM
If the country needs your money, you will be deemed unpatriotic if you do not give. If the country betul betul needs the money, I am sure it is OK but with news of Jho Low and so many unbelievables, even if half of them are true, we are in deep shit. If there are steps towards unity and meritocracy instead of thumbing down other races, it is also OK. But to give your hard earned money to greedy politicians and businessmen, knowing the downward trend. Even if you like gamble on horses, you also choose a pretty convincing horse...to your best knowledge. If you see a pipe leaking water and you don't report it, you can turn a blind eye but sooner or later when you turn on the tap, there will be no water. Matter of time. All our neighbours are progressing better than us, matter of time when we leave to their shores to cari makan. 2 weeks for feedbacks to EPF- this is really miserable and unprofessional.

Mat Bruce
21-04-2015, 09:04 PM
We should do something about this. While I believe that eventually we will go towards that, it is the lack of transparency and consultancy that got me boiled over. Everyone should go into their website and register your protest.

aursong
22-04-2015, 06:45 PM
http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2015/04/22/early-epf-withdrawals-will-leave-seniors-in-the-lurch-later/

Crap logic...

“From the general comments, it’s clear that most people want to withdraw their EPF contributions as soon as possible,” noted SBEU General Secretary Law Kiat Min. “There’s a general mistrust of the government. They fear that their hard-earned money may disappear by the time they retire.”

“Saying it’s your money and that you can do whatever you want with it is not quite correct. Employers contribute too.”

Law conceded that given a choice, most people would not contribute to EPF. He attributes this, among others, to salaries being low and that most people could do with the extra cash to meet their needs. “Employers will be jumping up and down with glee because it means that they don’t have to contribute.”

Withdrawing early, he warned, would also mean that employers don’t have to contribute and don’t have to increase their contributions. “We will be cutting our nose to spite our face. We cannot depend on our children since they can hardly take care of themselves.”

Dunno where to begin... how would withdraw early mean employers don't have to contribute...
As long as one still working... the employers will still need to contribute...

The EPF is part of the enumeration as salary package bafooon...

cml
23-04-2015, 01:34 PM
All these people are talking through their behind. trying to score points to stay relevant in whatever associations they are in. otherwise next time kena voted out.

Henry T
23-04-2015, 01:43 PM
It stays as 55. So says Najib. :D

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/full-epf-withdrawal-age-stays-at-55-says-najib

cml
23-04-2015, 02:18 PM
You believe what he says?

Naka
23-04-2015, 02:24 PM
You believe what he says?

Well, as of now yes but may not be forever.:D

cml
23-04-2015, 02:30 PM
when he is backed into a corner he will tell you whatever you want to hear. And I am not surprised that this issue was brought up to deflect attention from all the current ho hah about his deficiencies and lack of a credible response to the old crocodile.

Sentinel
23-04-2015, 02:50 PM
when he is backed into a corner he will tell you whatever you want to hear. And I am not surprised that this issue was brought up to deflect attention from all the current ho hah about his deficiencies and lack of a credible response to the old crocodile.

When he met the family of the late Teoh Beng Hock, he promised he will "leave no stones unturned to get to the bottom of the case to find the truth"... one of the perpetrators identified by the Royal Commission of Inquiry (RCI) was promoted recently to be MACC Director for Sabah

He also promised in 2012 to abolish the 1948 Sedition Act.... I'm sure you know the whole story....

For this man, talk is cheap, he never walk the talk...

cml
23-04-2015, 03:27 PM
that is why i ask if people still believe in what he has to say. all the sloganeering and wishy washy stuff. because of the institutionalised brainwashing there is still 47% left who still believe the crap spewing from him though the figure now may be considerably less.

Greenwich
24-04-2015, 10:22 AM
It stays as 55. So says Najib. :D

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/full-epf-withdrawal-age-stays-at-55-says-najib

Yup, this is reported full page at the front page of a local Chinese daily.

EPF allows full withdrawal at age 55. Those who continue working after 55 will have to open a new account and money in this new EPF account will be subjected to new rules of withdrawal.

cml
24-04-2015, 11:47 AM
It should be the same account, only thing is that one is not able to withdraw your contributions made after 55, till you are 60. They have to close the loophole which says that members can withdraw any amount after 55.

Greenwich
24-04-2015, 12:35 PM
From what I read from Chinese papers

- People can choose to fully withdraw their epf money at 55, they can also withdraw partially or keep their money there. The money or balance of money in this account can be withdrawn anytime after 55.

- Those who continue working after 55, the epf contribution after 55 will be channeled to a new account. Money inside this new account cannot be withdrawn until retirement age of 60.

cml
24-04-2015, 03:24 PM
They make a announcement, the people make a big hoo ha, they revert back to square one and we the people are supposed to be grateful to the gomen of the day?? I find it more and more curiouser (i know there is no such word but in bolehland can make ) They have considered our objections and because they are so damn considerate we have to actually be grateful to them???

cml
24-04-2015, 03:25 PM
Really, they take us for fools or what??

bslee
24-04-2015, 03:40 PM
Really, they take us for fools or what??
Ask all those "less popular votes" the same question.

cml
25-04-2015, 11:21 AM
the whole issue had been a distraction from the issue at hand, the elephant in the room so to speak 1mdb

kuma
26-05-2015, 11:15 AM
TMI: 'Now, Finance Ministry says EPF’s investment in 1MDB ‘slightly risky’

Self explanatory.....but 'no worries'.....its only 'slightly risky' :heheheh:

Go Read More >>>Here<<< (http://goo.gl/vlFUkZ)

cml
26-05-2015, 02:27 PM
Not their money they can say anything.

Jennylim
02-06-2015, 11:38 PM
Can the government pay us back 'less' than what we save in EPF?

I think it is possible, by increasing the inflation rate. How much is the worth of your money in EPF after a round of GST? So, when you put in RM100 in EPF now, the government took it and spend it right away, the government gets the current value, but what we get back after 30 years, even with interest added, we probably can't buy the same item we can get at RM100 now.

cml
03-06-2015, 08:57 AM
Does anyone know how the dividends for the last payments are calculated? Assuming one can withdraw everything at 55 and he reaches 55 in November. When he makes the withdrawal, the dividends for the year is not declared so how will the figure be calculated assuming the person wants to withdraw everything in November?

Greenwich
03-06-2015, 12:09 PM
.. Assuming one can withdraw everything at 55 and he reaches 55 in November. When he makes the withdrawal, the dividends for the year is not declared so how will the figure be calculated assuming the person wants to withdraw everything in November?

The dividend will be calculated based on last year dividend rate and prorated for 11 months.

cml
03-06-2015, 01:11 PM
Thanks:)

cskok8
03-06-2015, 02:24 PM
Don't worry, EPF/Najib won't cheat you

cml
03-06-2015, 02:38 PM
Thats why I am going to apply for the total withdrawal 6 months before its due . Apparently we can do that. Payment will be made 5 days after your birthday:D