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zinglicious
14-12-2013, 11:31 PM
Would like to know update my knowledge on technology of pro and cons of hybrid cars from those with experience driving one. Anybody that can gives the insight?? Particularly interested in Honda Insight 1.3 or Toyota Prius

bslee
14-12-2013, 11:37 PM
Still bloody expensive!...otherwise it'll sell like hot cakes and many would change over..up to you man!.. got the dough..go for it! :laugh:
Cheaper alternative would be NGV installation, for fraction of the price if you have boot space.

Henry T
15-12-2013, 12:19 AM
It's import and excise duty free. Ten percent sales tax still apply. Production cost should be higher due to the additional components like the battery and motor.

But this is Bolehland and all new vehicles' selling price (CKD and CBU) have to be Gomen approved. So, the distributors cannot sell it at a lower price even if they want to. Pricing it any lower than it already is could also affect the sales of their conventional cars.

I recently bought this Honda CR-Z Hybrid as a fun car. The retail price is 119k whereas the CIF price is 58k and sales tax is 10% which is 5.8k.
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a146/Henry1955/Honda%20CR-Z/CIMG1708_zps394b7f85.jpg

For about the same price the Honda Insight to Toyota Prius C is more practical.

zinglicious
15-12-2013, 12:29 AM
How's the thingy about fuel consumption and main main cost? How about the driving power? And does the battery need to be recharged or is it recharged by itself when driving? BTW, what is CIF?:confused:

jan tomaswaki
15-12-2013, 08:20 AM
How's the thingy about fuel consumption and main main cost? How about the driving power? And does the battery need to be recharged or is it recharged by itself when driving? BTW, what is CIF?:confused:

Hybrid system differ from various makes,but for Toyota it has patent 1000 parts,that is why differnt makes offer differnt tech.i.e the latest Nissan AFAIK the battery last about 1-3yrs but Toyota although did not mention,but in California /Aussie it gives 10 yrs warranty on battery.I own a Prius 1.8 it,s cost to bring from Jepun and selling price is only RM90K but the AP ( someone name sapu another RM50+K).One thing i do not like is the lack of sound proofing even change new tyres,had to fix outside for RM1000 for 4 doors and tyre panel to make it more solid.Need to fix the floor panel to make it more solid like BMW 7 series.For petrol comp.it about RM50 can go for abt 450-500km in city driving and about 700-800km for long distance.For more power the is a button POWER to increase power from 1.8 - 2.5cc

Henry T
15-12-2013, 08:31 AM
CIF = Cost of the car including Insurance + Freight when it reaches Malaysian Customs but before tax.

Hydrid cars, usually mated to a CVT gearbox, will always give a better fuel economy due to the assistance from an electric motor. The battery pack is now lithium-ion and is located in the boot. Earlier generation uses nickel metal hydride. For Honda, this battery is warrantied for eight years. This battery is charged by the energy generated from braking of the car. There is still the usual car battery for cranking and to power the electrical items. Warranty on the car is five years.

The motor assist is controlled by the car's computer and comes on and off depending on the driving condition. There is a meter on the dash to tell you this. So, the motor is not on all the time. Another meter shows you the state of charge of the lithium-ion battery.

The Honda CR-Z is powered by a 1.5L SOHC iVTEC engine + an electric motor, with a manual gearbox. I want a bit of performance so I did not opt for the CVT. The performance is like a 1.6L non-hybrid. The car's display shows I am getting 14.8 km/liter of petrol.

The Honda Insight and Civc Hybrid uses a 1.3L engine + electric motor and should drive like a 1.5L petrol non-hybrid. Honda's hybrid system is IMA which stands for Integrated Motor Assist. It means the motor is there to assist on and off. The engine runs all the time. In the case of Toyota/Lexus, depending on the situation, the car sometimes run on the motor only, sometimes engine only and sometimes on both engine + motor.

Other affordable Hybrids are the Toyota Prius C (100k), Toyota Prius (140k) and the Lexus CT200h non-full spec (180k?).

There is also Plug-in Hybrids and EV (Electric Vehicle) but that is another story.

:)

Naka
15-12-2013, 09:17 AM
It's import and excise duty free. Ten percent sales tax still apply. Production cost should be higher due to the additional components like the battery and motor.

But this is Bolehland and all new vehicles' selling price (CKD and CBU) have to be Gomen approved. So, the distributors cannot sell it at a lower price even if they want to. Pricing it any lower than it already is could also affect the sales of their conventional cars.

I recently bought this Honda CR-Z Hybrid as a fun car. The retail price is 119k whereas the CIF price is 58k and sales tax is 10% which is 5.8k.
...............

For about the same price the Honda Insight to Toyota Prius C is more practical.

Is this what your saying, 119k-58k = 61K goes to gohman tax (abt 105%)?:confused:

Henry T
15-12-2013, 09:41 AM
Is this what your saying, 119k-58k = 61K goes to gohman tax (abt 105%)?:confused:

No, the actual cost is 58 (CIF) + 5.8 (10% sales tax) = 63.8k. The balance of 55.2k consists of profit margin, insurance, road tax, discount and miscellaneous charges.

The route to market is this: Honda Japan or Honda Thailand - Honda Malaysia - Customers.

If taxed like conventional cars I estimate the CR-Z will sell for 160k instead of 119k. The CVT version is 4k more.

zinglicious
15-12-2013, 09:48 AM
Zing think I might look meaner with Honda from the sporty, young, fast and furious outlook. And I have been owning Hondas' but not TOYota. :heheheh:

CC for CC , Is the Honda Insight 1.3cc power performance offers better kick than Honda Civic 1.3? :confused:

And banyak Terima Kasih Semua for the speedy advice and info about Hybrid. Now I am know a thingy or two about birdies. :cool:

BTW, it only cost about USD 20K for a Honda Insight in USA while it costs more than RM100K in USJ. The sum of all fears in duties doesnt add up for a cleaner fuel efficient engines with less pollution factor in Klang Valley from zooming UKay to Ulu Selangor.. :p

Henry T
15-12-2013, 09:54 AM
You can compare the performance numbers of the various models by visiting Honda Malaysia's website. ;)

Henry T
15-12-2013, 10:16 AM
There is one more model ~ Honda Jazzy Hybrid. It is now locally assembled and sells at about 90k each.

bslee
15-12-2013, 11:52 AM
Buy a Henry T Ford. :heheheh:

2 years ago local motor show cased some Proton electric or hybrid cars.. Habuk pun tarak!...Useless! :eek:

zinglicious
15-12-2013, 02:32 PM
All that Jazz looks like MYVI - just not fast and furious looking enuf. Would still go for the Insight where it has a nice curvy backside. I would for the 2 doors like my old Honda Prelude similar to the Henry T Ford model but now have a wifey and two kiddies. Troublesome!!! :(

Is there any Hybrid model with moonroof? Can see starry starry night and luv the breezy drive at night. :cool:

Henry T
15-12-2013, 03:42 PM
Buy a Henry T Ford. :heheheh:

I do have a Ford - a Ford Focus. :D

Henry T
15-12-2013, 03:50 PM
Zing, go buy the Toyota Prius. It is made for the US market in mind. A good size family car. Power comes from a 1.8L engine and motor. The non-full spec one can be had slightly below 140k. The more expensive Lexus CT200h also use the same engine and motor. I would have bought that if it is my only car.

SiangMalam
15-12-2013, 04:07 PM
I do have a Ford - a Ford Focus. :D

Go get a real Ford.... :heheheh:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/bvjTtp_Nr_o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Henry T
15-12-2013, 04:20 PM
Go get a real Ford.... :heheheh:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/bvjTtp_Nr_o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Yup, the iconic Mustang. It will finally be coming to this part of the world. The 2.3 Turbo version would be suitable for our market. If it ever gets here I estimate it would cost a minimum quarter million Ringgit. :)

bslee
15-12-2013, 06:02 PM
Buy a car you like and see fit to your budget lah... No need to ask around too much. What you think may be best. Any car can be a lemon if you're unlucky..
Just like my son who bought a Proton Persona...yah..big boot..within budget, bigger or safer than Myvi..but expensive tyres, battery, etc..thats Proton for you. Power windows also failed once..bumper clips break, spoiler coming loose...thats proton for you!

SiangMalam
15-12-2013, 06:44 PM
Buy a car you like and see fit to your budget lah... No need to ask around too much. What you think may be best. Any car can be a lemon if you're unlucky..
Just like my son who bought a Proton Persona...yah..big boot..within budget, bigger or safer than Myvi..but expensive tyres, battery, etc..thats Proton for you. Power windows also failed once..bumper clips break, spoiler coming loose...thats proton for you!

How come your son bought a new car? :confused: I thought you told everyone in the forum we shouldn't buy new cars for next 5 years? :D

bslee
15-12-2013, 07:13 PM
He's NOT on the forum..:D people can do things, do the opposite or think otherwise despite whatever I say...like this fler here considering to buy a new hybrid soon..

Naka
15-12-2013, 07:40 PM
No, the actual cost is 58 (CIF) + 5.8 (10% sales tax) = 63.8k. The balance of 55.2k consists of profit margin, insurance, road tax, discount and miscellaneous charges.

The route to market is this: Honda Japan or Honda Thailand - Honda Malaysia - Customers.

If taxed like conventional cars I estimate the CR-Z will sell for 160k instead of 119k. The CVT version is 4k more.

I read somewhere that the gahman tax for every new vehicle is around 65% and 105%, as well as a 10 percent sales tax.. How is this figure reflected in this 119k?

bslee
15-12-2013, 07:57 PM
Like it or not, believe or not, whatever the prices don't matter much. Its cultured in countless minds to own the best car they can afford, even if its stuff of dreams. Its all cultured here which is the driving force behind the local car industry which attract shoppers anytime. Your gahmen laugh to the bank everytime a deal is closed for new car. Thats the way it is here...I can tell everyone don't buy...its a futile advice in most cases. I CAN'T and cannot afford anymore for ANY new car for obvious reasons and its far too expensive already. I have to accept it and be contented with my clunker...If possible don't even own one..and fork out all sorts to this gahmen. I take the 44 seater to city meantime...

Henry T
15-12-2013, 09:12 PM
I read somewhere that the gahman tax for every new vehicle is around 65% and 105%, as well as a 10 percent sales tax.. How is this figure reflected in this 119k?

You'll get all the info here: http://www.maa.org.my/info_duty.htm

For Hybrids there is no import duty and excise duty only 10% sales tax.

Rhiga
17-12-2013, 11:37 AM
...I recently bought this Honda CR-Z Hybrid as a fun car. The retail price is 119k whereas the CIF price is 58k and sales tax is 10% which is 5.8k.




Henry, with additional 55k, this would be the real thing..

http://vcc.tidalblast.com/pricelist/v40-pricelist-pm.pdf

http://www.volvocars.com/my/all-cars/volvo-v40/pages/default.aspx

Imo, battery-operated hybrid car is the conman version of environmental-friendly vehicle.

Henry T
17-12-2013, 11:51 AM
Henry, with additional 55k, this would be the real thing..

http://vcc.tidalblast.com/pricelist/v40-pricelist-pm.pdf

http://www.volvocars.com/my/all-cars/volvo-v40/pages/default.aspx


Imo, battery-operated hybrid car is the conman version of environmental-friendly vehicle.



I visited the VOLVO showroom in Glenmarie to see the V40. There is the V40 T4, V40 T5 and V40 XC. All very nice. How I wish I can own one.

As for evironmental friendly cars, the Europeans are taking the turbo diesel route but the low quality diesel here means few distributors are bringing in such cars. My friend has one. His exhaust particulate filter keeps clogging causing the car to go into limp-mode due to the excessive soot from the lousy diesel until he got fed-up and remove the filter which means it is back to square one. And the filter costs a few hundred buck to replace each time. :)

Naka
17-12-2013, 12:31 PM
You'll get all the info here: http://www.maa.org.my/info_duty.htm

For Hybrids there is no import duty and excise duty only 10% sales tax.

Ok, ok, tks

bslee
17-12-2013, 12:43 PM
Due to our very poor exchange rate (still sliding down now), despite excise or taxes, motoring here is still a very expensive acquisition. In UK our Perodua is about 9k UK pounds, Here? how much? Only offset by much cheaper fuel.
Can't do anything when it comes to poor exchange rate and inherent income disparity.

Rhiga
17-12-2013, 01:07 PM
I visited the VOLVO showroom in Glenmarie to see the V40. There is the V40 T4, V40 T5 and V40 XC. All very nice. How I wish I can own one.

As for evironmental friendly cars, the Europeans are taking the turbo diesel route but the low quality diesel here means few distributors are bringing in such cars. My friend has one. His exhaust particulate filter keeps clogging causing the car to go into limp-mode due to the excessive soot from the lousy diesel until he got fed-up and remove the filter which means it is back to square one. And the filter costs a few hundred buck to replace each time. :)

There are two approaches to tackle the toxic gases emitted to environment, the 1) engine and/or the 2) fuel. There is a limit on the improvements of engine and most of the focus now is on the improvement of fuels.

Malaysia currently is still using Euro2M as the fuel Standard but most of the new vehicle notably the continental cars are fitted with Euro5 engine. For example, the Volvo V40 (T4, T5 and cross country) all fitted with Euro5 engine.

For those who like diesel power plant, refill your diesel at stations in which the oil company does not run a refinery in this country. There are only two such oil importer-retailer in this country.

Just to share, Malaysia is short of diesel but long on petrol. Fuel stock-out is a legal offence and oil company sometimes have to buy spot cargo from open market to avoid hefty fine caused by stock-out. The oil-refining countries in this region would normally have Euro3 and Euro 4 stocks. These spot cargo from outside Malaysia will normally flow into Klang valley as this is the place with highest fuel demand.

The RAPID project in east Johor will be delayed due to land dispute and other issues and hence it is unlikely to have Euro4M fuels by 2016 as scheduled earlier.

SiangMalam
17-12-2013, 01:17 PM
The Taiwanese investor have also pulled out of the refinery partnership...

And Shandong Power's JV with local listco Gadang for the 1500MW thermal power plant is only at drawing stage - hope I can supply the coal.... hehehe...

Rhiga
17-12-2013, 01:24 PM
How come your son bought a new car? :confused: I thought you told everyone in the forum we shouldn't buy new cars for next 5 years? :D


Well, I think no one can match with this self-propagating fella who boosted himself with a link to Bugatti Veyron.. but in real life get a shock over the price increase of cotton buds.. :laugh: :laugh: :rolleyes:




"these are crazy fellas".....All the have to do is pick up [ok, hire one if need be]....a Veyron, and the $$ will just be thrown onto their laps.....heard they are crazy over them cars there



recently got a shock at the price increase of basic and simple like 'cotton buds'.....ridiculous for a strip of plastic a a few strands of cotton :eek:

Rhiga
17-12-2013, 02:40 PM
.... As for evironmental friendly cars, the Europeans are taking the turbo diesel route but the low quality diesel here means few distributors are bringing in such cars.

Just to shed some lights on why electric car and hybrid electric car are not the solutions to environmental problem.

The problem is the source of energy – electricity.

Electricity needs to be generated from power plant and the process cannot be friendly to environment for large-scale power generation to meet economic viability. Power generated from renewable sources like solar, wind and tidal is still in infancy scale and cannot meet the demand for mass consumption.

The huge wastage of electric power during the generation and distribution from hydro plants is a killer to the economic efficiency to build more hydro plant to meet energy supply. In addition, hydro power plant is the real disaster in sustaining ecological balance.

The choices left are only coal-fired power plant and nuclear power plant and the former is never the right choice for a cleaner environment.

Just imagine, the extra surge in electricity demand if half the cars on the road are electric or electric hybrid vehicles. The current technology in power generation and distribution still cannot cope with the excessive demand of electric energy in a manner that is less harmful to environment... the damage would be far worse than using fossil-fuel engine.

This is the reason why the more pragmatic approach is to produce cleaner fuels.

Henry T
17-12-2013, 03:34 PM
Just to shed some lights on why electric car and hybrid electric car are not the solutions to environmental problem.

The problem is the source of energy - electricity.




Only if they are the plug-in variety like your mobile devices. The hybrid we have now are mostly the self charging type. The battery pack which drives the electric motor is charged by the energy from braking, like in F1.

The world should be more concern about the effects to the environment due to the mining of raw materials and the production process of such batteries and the subsequent disposal of the dead ones.

Hydrogen would be the best solution. We have plenty of H2O and and hydrogen produces zero emission.

Rhiga
17-12-2013, 06:42 PM
....Hydrogen would be the best solution. We have plenty of H2O and and hydrogen produces zero emission.

Yup, hydrogen seemed to be the solution but little publicity so far (as far as I know, there is little technical breakthrough and financial interests in the hydrogen car project now)..

My previous employer is the leader in hydrogen fuel cell and there was a posting created to lead this project in Singapore and London. The person who headed this project was my ex-boss and a good friend of mine.

I hate to say this but the truth is – when come to alternative sources of energy, it is really difficult to have breakthrough to meet the scale for mass demand. The technology of alternative energy is there and can be refined further and money is not really the show stopper. It is just the damn fact that hydrocarbon has become an integral part in everything we consume and it is impossible to find a replacement with such mass applications.

Oil majors and research groups have shifted their effort to produce "better and cleaner" fuels and this include biofuel rather than split hair in re-inventing an alternative for fuel.