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AlanCheng
18-06-2012, 09:12 PM
No matter how you attack me and how you spin and lie, the fact remain that you are narrow minded who expect something in return for your "donation".

Look at what you wrote, "even people like me"? Who do you think you are? Just because you raise some fund and you think you should be treated differently, some VIP? That show you are expecting something in return.

You may asking for a teh tarik session, but "He never confirmed", so why does he need to turn up?

Donation = giving without expecting anything in return (not even a teh tarik session)
Purchasing = paying and expecting goods/services in return

赞!!!!!!!!!!

Rhiga
19-06-2012, 07:48 AM
赞!!!!!!!!!!

Moderator,

I think this post should be deleted.

This is an English forum, forumers are expected to post in English, not Mandarin..

It should not be an issue if one use a few words of Mandarin, BM, etc along with English but to post with one single word in Mandarin ??


Ps. I can reply with Mandarin and/or Japanese to his post and I am sure less than 1% of people in this forum can understand my post (including the moderator). I can describe the present Mr. Alan and cover all the way back to his ancestor, and I doubt the moderator can do anything to me as he won’t understand.

Rhiga
19-06-2012, 07:57 AM
赞!!!!!!!!!!

For those who don't understand the word "赞". it literally means "like" or "praise"

No doubt you are entitled to your little opinion, but I strongly sense the underlying cowardice of your post.

If you have grudge with SM, reply directly to him..

kwchang
19-06-2012, 02:17 PM
...This is an English forum, forumers are expected to post in English, not Mandarin......I can reply with Mandarin and/or Japanese to his post and I am sure less than 1% of people in this forum can understand my post (including the moderator)..
At no time in the past or present did we declare the lingua franca (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingua_franca) of the Forum. John Postil who studied our Forum did ask us why we did not run it in Bahasa Malaysia. Actually, almost everyone posted in English and it became the language by default.

Nowadays, other languages are not a problem. In my case, I cannot read the Chinese script but I can copy the text and send it to Google translate to get it translated to English for me. So, I understood the word Alan used because I did check. So my fren, please don't try to list someone's ancestral history in the language you know because I can get it translated and it could get you some bananas.

Rhiga
19-06-2012, 02:43 PM
At no time in the past or present did we declare the lingua franca (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingua_franca) of the Forum. John Postil who studied our Forum did ask us why we did not run it in Bahasa Malaysia. Actually, almost everyone posted in English and it became the language by default.

Nowadays, other languages are not a problem. In my case, I cannot read the Chinese script but I can copy the text and send it to Google translate to get it translated to English for me. So, I understood the word Alan used because I did check. So my fren, please don't try to list someone's ancestral history in the language you know because I can get it translated and it could get you some bananas.

Chang,

I am a little bit proud of my language skills..:cool:

And I beleive you have heard and read before - the embarassment from a translation machine as it literally translates without understanding the context of the sentence...:heheheh:

I can write a post with a mixture in :
1. traditional Chinese script,
2. simplified Chinese script,
3. Cantonese-pronunciation proverbs/adjectives using either (1) or (2), or a misture of both.
4. Japanese adjectives using kanji (which is similar with traditional chinese scripts but carry completely different meaning in Japanese)

Since you can't recognize anyone of the above from (1) to (4) as they all look similar but can be very different in meaning.. I am not sure how the Gooooogle translate can be useful to you !! :confused:

Anywhere, since you have said English is not the lingua franca of this forum…

I will happily take note for my future postings..

kwchang
19-06-2012, 03:17 PM
Rhiga, yes I am envious of people like you who has the language elasticity that I wished I had.... hahaha, so I send my kids to vernacular school to give them what I lacked and I also tried to get my daughter interested in Japanese. But alas, not everyone has the linguistic skills to be able to handle multiple languages. Anyway, I always am glad for our unique situation in Malaysia where the Chinese and Indians are usually tri-lingual (mother-tongue, Malay and English) ... not many countries have this and the most the population can have is being bilingual (mother-tongue and English). and if our Indian countrymen have enrolled in Chinese schools, they could also be quadri-lingual (Tamil, Mandarin, English and Malay)... wow. Not forgetting that increasingly we have our Malay friends also sending their kids to Chinese schools, so they too become trilingual

As for the unreliable translations... no matter, they get better everyday. And of course one needs to read in context. It may not be accurate but with a bit of intellectual effort, I am sure one can make out the context of the sentences. Why don't you test the translator application to see if they can actually translate the meaning?

eddychan
19-06-2012, 03:53 PM
Rhiga, yes I am envious of people like you who has the language elasticity that I wished I had.... hahaha, so I send my kids to vernacular school to give them what I lacked and I also tried to get my daughter interested in Japanese. But alas, not everyone has the linguistic skills to be able to handle multiple languages. Anyway, I always am glad for our unique situation in Malaysia where the Chinese and Indians are usually tri-lingual (mother-tongue, Malay and English) ... not many countries have this and the most the population can have is being bilingual (mother-tongue and English). and if our Indian countrymen have enrolled in Chinese schools, they could also be quadri-lingual (Tamil, Mandarin, English and Malay)... wow. Not forgetting that increasingly we have our Malay friends also sending their kids to Chinese schools, so they too become trilingual

As for the unreliable translations... no matter, they get better everyday. And of course one needs to read in context. It may not be accurate but with a bit of intellectual effort, I am sure one can make out the context of the sentences. Why don't you test the translator application to see if they can actually translate the meaning?

אתה בהחלט צודק. מה עם שפות אסור?

currymee
19-06-2012, 04:01 PM
אתה בהחלט צודק. מה עם שפות אסור?

Walau !!! Tak aci like that, Hebrew also taruh ..... :p :D

kuma
19-06-2012, 04:05 PM
אתה בהחלט צודק. מה עם שפות אסור?


:laugh: ?מה עשית כדי פלסטין

kwchang
19-06-2012, 04:12 PM
אתה בהחלט צודק. מה עם שפות אסור?
Google auto translated it to say
"You are absolutely right. What languages ​​should"
not perfect, but we get the context, right?

currymee
19-06-2012, 04:56 PM
Personally, I prefer to use MANGLISH in the forum - Malaysian Rojak English is the way "we" speak in REAL LIFE DAILY (at least, I do :p ) :D

Kinabalu
19-06-2012, 04:58 PM
Samy Vellu famous quote : Ayam Kambing beg

zinglicious
19-06-2012, 05:05 PM
Google auto translated it to say
"You are absolutely right. What languages ​​should"
not perfect, but we get the context, right?

Doubt Google can translate or make the context of Automatic Gostan, Blurred Sotong, iSayman or Aisayman. :heheheh:

kuma
19-06-2012, 06:07 PM
Google auto translated it to say
"You are absolutely right. What languages ​​should"
not perfect, but we get the context, right?

I say Chang...you didn't translate mine....since he wrote in Hebrew, I asked him a pertinent question;)

tupai
19-06-2012, 06:19 PM
mu goyak gapo?:confused:

Yang Ada Bahasa TIUxlatotupai:cool:

kwchang
19-06-2012, 06:51 PM
.. ?מה עשית כדי פלסטין
Google said "What did you do to Filastin" and of course, the last word is obviously not translatable to English
So i checked and Filastin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine) actually refers to Palestine

Contextually, i would say you asked "what did Israel do to Palestine" since Hebrew (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew) is a Jewish language

kwchang
19-06-2012, 06:56 PM
mu goyak gapo?
google translator does not handle the Kelantanese dialect so let me do it manually -
"Kamu cakap apa?"

mykern
19-06-2012, 07:02 PM
google translator does not handle the Kelantanese dialect so let me do it manually -
"Kamu cakap apa?"

<strike>Walauwei!~</strike>

tupai
19-06-2012, 09:04 PM
google translator does not handle the Kelantanese dialect so let me do it manually -
"Kamu cakap apa?"

wahfah terferrorfor lahfah ufu!:eek:

YangFang AfAmatfat Berferlinfingofo TIUFIU xFxlafatofotufupaifai:p

p/s anfannyfy onefone canfan speakfeak thefer ff linfingofo?:p

bslee
19-06-2012, 09:14 PM
AFAIK, THIS forum is probably the ONLY one in the world which mod will dislike and ban the word "wahlau!" because he deems among the many as an expletive or profane, implying children reading this forum read this.
Neither right nor wrong, leave it to your own perception. Besides, I'd like to know mod's definition of "children" and whats roughly the ages that do come in.

kwchang
19-06-2012, 10:18 PM
AFAIK, THIS forum is probably the ONLY one in the world which mod will dislike and ban the word "wahlau!" because he deems among the many as an expletive or profane...
:confused: eh? you refering to post #18 by mykern? when did I mention or censor his post? :confused:
Putting words in my mouth or what? What's gotten into you???

mykern
20-06-2012, 06:12 AM
:confused: eh? you refering to post #18 by mykern? when did I mention or censor his post? :confused:
Putting words in my mouth or what? What's gotten into you???
Woay bslee .... you better not get me into trouble ...:rolleyes:
http://bolehland.net/post/singlepost.php?id=77
Mesa no wanna bannaanna!~:cool:

Rhiga
20-06-2012, 08:03 AM
....Anyway, I always am glad for our unique situation in Malaysia where the Chinese and Indians are usually tri-lingual (mother-tongue, Malay and English) ... not many countries have this and the most the population can have is being bilingual (mother-tongue and English). and if our Indian countrymen have enrolled in Chinese schools, they could also be quadri-lingual (Tamil, Mandarin, English and Malay)... wow. Not forgetting that increasingly we have our Malay friends also sending their kids to Chinese schools, so they too become trilingual



Yes, the Chinese and Indian generally can communicate in 3 languages (their native language, BM and English) but decades of over-emphasis on BM has damaged the command of English and their native language.. and I won't call them bilingual or trilingual..

Most of them are neither here nor there - poor in English and weak in their mother tongue.

Let take the example of Chinese - There are 2 types:

1. Those who can't read and write Chinese. Maybe they are capable to utter a few words in daily conversation and hence claim they can speak in Chinese language...:rolleyes:

2. Those who can speak, read and write in Chinese. They come from family whose parents were Chinese-educated or parents who were English-educated but decided to send their children to equip them with Chinese language skill.

Regardless of which group, majority of them are poor in English.

Yes, there are exceptions and the exceptions are the result of hindsight and effort from parents, not the skewed education ssytem in this land.


ps : You can notice the poor language skill of Chinese Malaysian when they speak. Most of them (young and old) can’t construct a meaningful and precise answer when being ask a question. Try to observe people on the street in Beijing when you are there - the way they answer a simple question and the depth/buffer in their answer clearly shown there is at least two generations gap when come to language skills.

Rhiga
20-06-2012, 08:30 AM
.......As for the unreliable translations... no matter, they get better everyday. And of course one needs to read in context. It may not be accurate but with a bit of intellectual effort, I am sure one can make out the context of the sentences. Why don't you test the translator application to see if they can actually translate the meaning?

Yes, I will and I have to tell you it would not be “fair” to the translator because I am writing something with the intention to fail the translator.. :D

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chang,
Perhaps you should seriously consider English as the only lingua franca for this forum…

If many forumers post and reply in other languages – you will have hell a lot of time to get them translate and get the context right...

When it comes to forum rules violation, before you can raise your big sword … I believe you need to accurately understand the context of the post and perhaps the tone and underlying messages from a post.

And I doubt you can make an informed decision using the translator...;)

kwchang
20-06-2012, 08:59 AM
...Perhaps you should seriously consider English as the only lingua franca for this forum…

If many forumers post and reply in other languages – you will have hell a lot of time to get them translate and get the context right...
Yes, I do agree with you. Certainly I will not have the time to check every thing posted.


...When it comes to forum rules violation, before you can raise your big sword … I believe you need to accurately understand the context of the post and perhaps the tone and underlying messages from a post...
Again, wise words of advice which I will keep in mind in my future moderations
I learn from you all everyday...and that is what makes this job interesting

Thank you

eddychan
20-06-2012, 09:22 AM
Yes, I will and I have to tell you it would not be “fair” to the translator because I am writing something with the intention to fail the translator.. :D

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chang,
Perhaps you should seriously consider English as the only lingua franca for this forum…



If that is the case, then your post would probably be deleted, since lingua franca is italian!

From Italian lingua franca (“Frankish language”) [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lingua_franca]

Or, you should probably ask the mod to "consider English as the only Frankish language for this forum..."

CS Chua
20-06-2012, 09:36 AM
If that is the case, then your post would probably be deleted, since lingua franca is italian!

From Italian lingua franca (“Frankish language”) [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lingua_franca]

Or, you should probably ask the mod to "consider English as the only Frankish language for this forum..."

Aiyah, si lu ai lang chai lu kong ar mii, sia innpun loh. si lu mai lang chai, sia ar mii pun a sai.

eddychan
20-06-2012, 09:42 AM
Aiyah, si lu ai lang chai lu kong ar mii, sia innpun loh. si lu mai lang chai, sia ar mii pun a sai.

lu kong simmi wa mm jai, achangkor lagi mm jai. eng google translator pun beh sai..!

* to obtain a translation to the above, u have to get married to an appropriate spouse, and endure decades of nagging...!

coleslaw
20-06-2012, 09:50 AM
lu kong simmi wa mm jai, achangkor lagi mm jai. eng google translator pun beh sai..!

* to obtain a translation to the above, u have to get married to an appropriate spouse, and endure decades of nagging...!
made my day!!!....hahaha

Rhiga
20-06-2012, 09:56 AM
If that is the case, then your post would probably be deleted, since lingua franca is italian!

From Italian lingua franca (“Frankish language”) [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lingua_franca]

Or, you should probably ask the mod to "consider English as the only Frankish language for this forum..."


Well, you just gave me a good example to highlight to other forumers regarding the importance to read the context of a sentence.

Lingua franca definitely is not an English word ..

But remember what I said before -- > one or a few non-English words along the English post should not be an issue..

Rhiga
20-06-2012, 10:45 AM
... Why don't you test the translator application to see if they can actually translate the meaning?

Let's try this as a start....

Here is an article written in traditional Chinese scripts only. I copy from a Chinese Web with some amendments from me...:D


有人說龍族文化注重“吃”,如“吃鱉”、“吃繭”、“吃錢”、“吃苦”、“吃閉門羹”、“黑吃黑”、“吃飽 了嗎”。可吃的真多,不可吃的也照吃不誤;通吃就是了。也許你也听過,中國文化中卻也充滿著“氣”︰從虎虎 有生氣到氣如游絲。在社交範疇里就有志氣、氣盛、長氣、嘆氣、氣塞、氣結、氣死人、唔(不)通氣等等。過從 者使到你氣不順也。
在個人對國家的情操中,也有一種氣。各位也略為知道,宋朝愛國將軍文天祥被敵軍關在牢里時,寫過《正氣歌》 ,劈頭第一句便是︰“天地有正氣”。他在牢獄里所嗅到的氣共有七種,包括了︰水、土、日、米、火、人、穢, 可統稱邪氣。一旦邪氣太重,正氣就不能彰顯。那是奸人使到你氣不順也

umadavid
20-06-2012, 11:15 AM
Post in which ever language you want BUT please include the translation especially those who romanised the language. If not, the best jokes will be a loss to me :(

kwchang
20-06-2012, 01:45 PM
Rhiga's test script was translated by Google as

Some people say that the Maronite cultural emphasis on "eat", such as "eat turtle eat cocoon," eat money "," hardship "," admitted by "," Stealing from Thieves "," eat you ".Really can eat, not eat also be asked to eat is not missed;-take-all it wants. Perhaps you have heard of the Chinese culture, but also filled with gas ︰ angry to gas such as gossamer from a tiger. In the social areas where there is ambition, and fit, long-winded, sighing, air lock, angry, mad people, not (not) ventilation and so on. Collected from so that you are upset also.
Personal sentiment in the country, there is a gas. You know, slightly Patriotic Song Dynasty General Wen Tianxiang remain imprisoned by the enemy, and has written the "Elegy" at the very start the first one is "Heaven and earth have righteousness". There are seven of the smell of gas in prison, including ︰ water, earth, day, meters, fire, people, dirty, can be collectively referred to as evil. Once the evil is too heavy, righteousness can not be demonstrated. That Men Do not Cry so that you are upset also of course, the translation need to be read in context and it also requires background knowledge on cultural backgrounds apart from just linguistic content. Certainly someone from a non-Chinese background would not interpret the context properly ... for example "eat turtle eat cocoon" would have no meaning in a direct translation. That is because Chinese script is sometimes laden with idioms ... then one needs a dictionary to explain some of the idioms used to better understand the context.

The above cannot be deciphered in a block translation... perhaps I need to pick out the sentences to obtain the individual translations to understand the whole message. I do not have the time now to pick up the challenge from Rhiga ... maybe with some effort I can work out the contextual message.

Off hand, the message sounds like it is touching on the issue of corruption and that evil overcomes righteousness

bslee
20-06-2012, 01:54 PM
Couldn't reply to my matter earlier, my internet have been OOO intermittently past 3 days. No ADSL syncro signal for many hours coming back and going off unexpectedly. Now using from phone link.
OK, clear up the wahlau word matter. NOTHING todo with mykern mentioning this.
I used this word once a while and after sometime Chang forbid this (obviously a ban) on the forum, implying its something uncouth or profane, similar to the f word, so I'm led to accept that.
This happened long ago, and I remember it quite well, Chang likely forgotten. I haven't used this word since then till now it becomes a minor mention in thisf discussion. Yes, I'll try never to type this word. I do accept its sort of uncouth term. Ok...settled?.. no more continuance about this. Nothing personal against anyone here. Thanks.

currymee
20-06-2012, 02:16 PM
Couldn't reply to my matter earlier, my internet have been OOO intermittently past 3 days. No ADSL syncro signal for many hours coming back and going off unexpectedly. Now using from phone link.
OK, clear up the wahlau word matter. NOTHING todo with mykern mentioning this.
I used this word once a while and after sometime Chang forbid this (obviously a ban) on the forum, implying its something uncouth or profane, similar to the f word, so I'm led to accept that.
This happened long ago, and I remember it quite well, Chang likely forgotten. I haven't used this word since then till now it becomes a minor mention in thisf discussion. Yes, I'll try never to type this word. I do accept its sort of uncouth term. Ok...settled?.. no more continuance about this. Nothing personal against anyone here. Thanks.

WALAU WEI !!!!! :D :D :D

Hahaha ... to me, it is the "local" version of OMG !!! :p

Well, I know ONE WORD that KWChang not only forbids but serves me BANANAS and A TWO WEEK'S BAN as well :( ... it is "BULLSHIT" and I used it on 1Najib long long time ago on some of his "newly minted" policies then .... and since then I have been proven time and time again to be right by Najib himself hahahahahaa ........... :p

bslee
20-06-2012, 02:21 PM
Hahaha ... to me, it is the "local" version of OMG !!! :p


You think so? its a matter of individual interpretation. Chang didn't like it, seemingly impressed on me till now.

zinglicious
20-06-2012, 02:22 PM
iSayman, even in English itself, it commes under different set of meaning depending who speak it and who right it. From How are you to How are you doing, What's up to how's the hanging? Residents in the suburban wouldnt be able to understand the English language from somebody from the hood. <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/RrTSYhGtaqw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Even the written Engish in bold print to fine print, many people would be confused what they are signing where it takes a lawyer to deciphered the actual meaning and implication.

Knock, knock jokes, who's there or a David Letterman talk show dont amused Malaysian audience while we would be laughing to Ah Beng , Phua Chu kang or Petaling Street jokes. Even a stand up comedy is hardly appreciated. Here is one which is the first stand up comedy attempt by Patrick Teoh.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=C2pamkz8Hwg ( viewer discretion is advised as there is srong language used )

CS Chua
20-06-2012, 04:46 PM
lu kong simmi wa mm jai, achangkor lagi mm jai. eng google translator pun beh sai..!

* to obtain a translation to the above, u have to get married to an appropriate spouse, and endure decades of nagging...!

Aiyah, wah kah lu kong hokkien way. Ho boh? Mein kauwin hokkien cha bo.

Learning Hokkien is as easy as ABC
Children is kina kia
Boy is da boh kia
Girl is zha boh kia
Korean car is KIA
Give birth is seh kia
Furniture is Ikea
Police is mata kia
Small house is chu kia
Handphone is Nokia
I am Hokkien kia
Malay is huan kia
Indian is keh leng kia
Angmoh is angmor kia
Chinese is deng lang kia
Japanese is jit pun kia
Bad guy is pai kia
Good guy is ho kia
People who read this is gong kia
If you laugh, you are sia kia

bslee
20-06-2012, 05:59 PM
There existed one Hokkien curse I remember well.
Cha Si Kia!... You DIE early!

I used to hear this uttered often... comes from lack of good upbringing because this was uttered by young flers, when I was young.

CS Chua
21-06-2012, 02:42 PM
There existed one Hokkien curse I remember well.
Cha Si Kia!... You DIE early!

I used to hear this uttered often... comes from lack of good upbringing because this was uttered by young flers, when I was young.

Another important Hokkien sentence is: Wa bo kia!! (I am not afraid.) Usually spoken when the wife is not around.:heheheh:

bslee
21-06-2012, 03:13 PM
Ok all points noted. Hopefully people don't use uncouth or profanity on a public forum. Its not a good thing.

USJ Optometrist
21-06-2012, 03:15 PM
Another important Hokkien sentence is: Wa bo kia!! (I am not afraid.) Usually spoken when the wife is not around.:heheheh:

Men kia (dont be afraid) if wife stays at home, my dad very very kia when my mum goes shopping mall kia kia (walk walk).


Sorry ya Alan, my post is deviated from your original topic.

AlanCheng
21-06-2012, 04:42 PM
Darren,
总有些无聊的人喜欢做一些无聊的事;-)
google translate : Some silly People like to do something silly

PeterHng
21-06-2012, 05:15 PM
Wa bo kia!!

can also be translated as "I don't have kid" ;-)

Rhiga
21-06-2012, 06:01 PM
There is always some genetically-impaired and hormonally-messup folks who dare not reply directly to a forumer, but choose to hide somewhere and enchoe other forumer's post.. :rolleyes:

AlanCheng
21-06-2012, 07:11 PM
says whatever you wanted to say.. but i wouldn't dance along with your music.

Mr. Moderator sorry for the troubles..I will sign off for a while. Thank you

kwchang
21-06-2012, 08:43 PM
...the wahlau word... sometime Chang forbid this...
I forgot that I had bananaed you for using that word. At that time I was told that the original word was a profanity. I don't speak hokkien, hence I just depended on what I was told. Just googled for it and found a page (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=walaueh) that explained its meaning ... don't know if it actually was used as a profanity as the page does not say it.
However, I am vindicated because a Singlish dictionary (http://www.singlishdictionary.com/singlish_W.htm) confirmed that it is indeed a profanity where it is derived from a cruder term and it is taken by some people to be an expletive.

Similarly, "bugger" and "buggered" actually involves an immoral act - you guys go check it out. Just because the general usage had deviated into a 'term of endearment', it does not remove it from its original meaning. You can argue till the cows come home, but my point is to educate the bunch of you that if you did not know the truth, you could be embarrasing yourself unknowingly when you express yourself to people who know the real meanings.

CS Chua
21-06-2012, 09:34 PM
can also be translated as "I don't have kid" ;-)

A classic case of what a wrong tone can mean. Thanks. Now I have another example to use for illustration.

currymee
22-06-2012, 06:09 AM
I forgot that I had bananaed you for using that word. At that time I was told that the original word was a profanity. I don't speak hokkien, hence I just depended on what I was told. Just googled for it and found a page (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=walaueh) that explained its meaning ... don't know if it actually was used as a profanity as the page does not say it.
However, I am vindicated because a Singlish dictionary (http://www.singlishdictionary.com/singlish_W.htm) confirmed that it is indeed a profanity where it is derived from a cruder term and it is taken by some people to be an expletive.

Similarly, "bugger" and "buggered" actually involves an immoral act - you guys go check it out. Just because the general usage had deviated into a 'term of endearment', it does not remove it from its original meaning. You can argue till the cows come home, but my point is to educate the bunch of you that if you did not know the truth, you could be embarrasing yourself unknowingly when you express yourself to people who know the real meanings.

KW,

That is why a language is considered ALIVE, FLEXIBLE and GROWING as its meaning changes over time and usage .... not only ENglish but also other languages including the dialects ...

hahahahaa .... wow, if following your pure logic, IF we follow ORIGINAL term definition STRICTLY .... then I have to admit that I am a "GAY" and happy man :p everyday esp when I eat currymee at Choy Kee :D

zinglicious
22-06-2012, 07:22 AM
I forgot that I had bananaed you for using that word. At that time I was told that the original word was a profanity. I don't speak hokkien, hence I just depended on what I was told. Just googled for it and found a page (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=walaueh) that explained its meaning ... don't know if it actually was used as a profanity as the page does not say it.
However, I am vindicated because a Singlish dictionary (http://www.singlishdictionary.com/singlish_W.htm) confirmed that it is indeed a profanity where it is derived from a cruder term and it is taken by some people to be an expletive.

Never knew there is Singlish dictionary! Walau bagaimana pun, Walaueh was extensively used in the movies directed by Singaporean director Jack Neoh and it was not bleeped.

Similarly, "bugger" and "buggered" actually involves an immoral act - you guys go check it out. Just because the general usage had deviated into a 'term of endearment', it does not remove it from its original meaning. You can argue till the cows come home, but my point is to educate the bunch of you that if you did not know the truth, you could be embarrasing yourself unknowingly when you express yourself to people who know the real meanings.

Never knew there is Singlish dictionary! Walau bagaimana pun, Walaueh was extensively used in the movies directed by Singaporean director Jack Neoh and it was not bleeped as well. So in the banana dicttionary, what is the list of banana banned words and is word like Lim Pek and yo, dawg, Gay or Mamak in the band? :heheheh:

currymee
22-06-2012, 08:10 AM
BTW, KW, thanks for the link to the Singlish dictionary, I am having A WHALE OF A TIME "learning" new "ahem" :rolleyes: phrases .... :D

eddychan
22-06-2012, 08:27 AM
Aiyah, wah kah lu kong hokkien way. Ho boh? Mein kauwin hokkien cha bo.

Learning Hokkien is as easy as ABC
Children is kina kia
Boy is da boh kia
Girl is zha boh kia
Korean car is KIA
Give birth is seh kia
Furniture is Ikea
Police is mata kia
Small house is chu kia
Handphone is Nokia
I am Hokkien kia
Malay is huan kia
Indian is keh leng kia
Angmoh is angmor kia
Chinese is deng lang kia
Japanese is jit pun kia
Bad guy is pai kia
Good guy is ho kia
People who read this is gong kia
If you laugh, you are sia kia
If you don't laugh, you are kwailan kia

Thanks for the "Brief History of a Dying Dialect". I say that, because the recent influx of attractive commodities from Mainland China has made it necessary to pick up the putonghua, preferably with a northern accent.

zinglicious
22-06-2012, 08:51 PM
你 大 我 呀? Do you big me?
收爷 Collect father?
黑仔 Black son?
吹水 Blow water?
釉水 Pump water?
放马过来 Let your horse here?
水鱼 Water fish?

After google translate it, many would say - 笑死我 Laugh die me? :heheheh:

Rhiga
26-06-2012, 11:00 AM
Rhiga's test script was translated by Google as
of course, the translation need to be read in context and it also requires background knowledge on cultural backgrounds apart from just linguistic content. Certainly someone from a non-Chinese background would not interpret the context properly ... for example "eat turtle eat cocoon" would have no meaning in a direct translation. That is because Chinese script is sometimes laden with idioms ... then one needs a dictionary to explain some of the idioms used to better understand the context.

The above cannot be deciphered in a block translation... perhaps I need to pick out the sentences to obtain the individual translations to understand the whole message. I do not have the time now to pick up the challenge from Rhiga ... maybe with some effort I can work out the contextual message.

Off hand, the message sounds like it is touching on the issue of corruption and that evil overcomes righteousness

any progress, Chang...?

zinglicious
26-06-2012, 11:05 AM
EIther still giggling or googling where we Kong Sam Kong Say - Talk 3 Talk 4 .:heheheh:

ng
26-06-2012, 11:31 AM
Never knew there is Singlish dictionary! Walau bagaimana pun, Walaueh was extensively used in the movies directed by Singaporean director Jack Neoh and it was not bleeped as well.

Most singaporeans/Malaysians just blindly follow the crowd without understanding the real meaning because they were not formally educated in hokkien or cantonese. Just because the word is widely used in movies, doesn't mean it is not vulgar.

'Wa lau' originated from 'Wa Lan' which is a crude profanity used in the hokkien community. Most people don't know the origin. To be more accurate, it should be 'Lan Jiau' and not 'Lan' as 'Lan' 卵alone mean 'egg'. You can say 'Wa lau' is a milder version of 'Wa lan'.

There is a similar situation in cantonese too.

I got scolded by a young, uneducated girl in KL using 'Tiu' in cantonese, she doesn't seem to understand the meaning and just imitate what other people say. Obviously, 'Tiu' can only be used by men and not women. In Hong Kong, there is a milder version 'Chiu' which also originated from 'Tiu'.

PS. Kwchang, i am just giving some education talk so don't banana me.

mykern
26-06-2012, 12:00 PM
PS. Kwchang, i am just giving some education talk so don't banana me.
A banana is yellow on the outside and white on the inside!~ We are all bananas to a certain degree .... no offence intended ... ;)
I got a friend from China who was amazed that the Chinese here can speak >< 3 dialects excluding Mandarin ... over there only their national language and local dialect!~
So E&Os are permitted!~ (E&O = errors and omissions);-)

zinglicious
26-06-2012, 12:09 PM
I heard many a time when things go wrong, many Hokkien would say - Chiak Lat - which is translated to the best of my knowledge - Eat Energy. So, is it profanity? ( me Hokkien KIA but zooms like Korean KIA).

Rhiga
28-06-2012, 10:53 AM
any progress, Chang...?

A friendly reminder !! :D

Hope to see the translation soon....

kwchang
28-06-2012, 11:28 AM
A friendly reminder !! :D

Hope to see the translation soon....

hahaha, yes, I hope so too ... but I am really very very busy at work these few days. Do be patient.
I could cheat by asking people who are Chinese literate to translate but that takes the fun out of it.

zinglicious
28-06-2012, 11:28 AM
Lim Pek seems like profanity word to some, but it went uncensored in Singapore and some say Malaysia too - <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/MkOF-8BELxU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

zinglicious
28-06-2012, 11:35 AM
I forgot that I had bananaed you for using that word. At that time I was told that the original word was a profanity. I don't speak hokkien, hence I just depended on what I was told. Just googled for it and found a page (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=walaueh) that explained its meaning ... don't know if it actually was used as a profanity as the page does not say it.
However, I am vindicated because a Singlish dictionary (http://www.singlishdictionary.com/singlish_W.htm) confirmed that it is indeed a profanity where it is derived from a cruder term and it is taken by some people to be an expletive.

Similarly, "bugger" and "buggered" actually involves an immoral act - you guys go check it out. Just because the general usage had deviated into a 'term of endearment', it does not remove it from its original meaning. You can argue till the cows come home, but my point is to educate the bunch of you that if you did not know the truth, you could be embarrasing yourself unknowingly when you express yourself to people who know the real meanings.

Not bananaed in Singapura or Malaysia - when the Chef in movie ( not me ) at 2.23 walaupun or walau A. <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/1ovftyvGVWg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Rhiga
28-06-2012, 12:31 PM
hahaha, yes, I hope so too ... but I am really very very busy at work these few days. Do be patient.
I could cheat by asking people who are Chinese literate to translate but that takes the fun out of it.

Sure, no need to rush…. I sent the reminder in case you have “forgotten”.. :D

I know you won’t get help from someone….. and from the translation it can tell whether is from machine or human…!! ;)

ivanhow
28-06-2012, 12:45 PM
I can't imagine just one word '赞' has kicked up so much of debate!

On the one hand, we shud appreciate that the forum here did not limit us to use any language that cud be understood by others in this community here, as long as the moderator did not ban nor disapprove. Of course you can challenge the moderator, but what does that profit us?

Having allowed other languages that members of this forum here can use to communicate is in fact allowing some degree of flexibility as this is translated to beauty (for lack of a better word) of expression some languages are just simply lacking.

On the other hand we shud not use languages to toment or traumatise someone else (moreso our moderator who is doing a necessary job of keeping everyone else inline with the rules of the forum).

So, let us not impose what the forum here does not impose, and allow forumers to express in words that can be understood, as long as there are forumers here that can appreciate it and can translate it. If someone just responds with a single word that is harmless, so be it.

Of course, if someone were to write in turkmen, then most likely non of us here will be able to appreciate and respond to it, and that wud be useless for the community here and defeats the purpose of posting for getting feedback and responses for ideas and thoughts..

Just my usual 2sen worth!

ivanhow
28-06-2012, 01:30 PM
I forgot that I had bananaed you for using that word. At that time I was told that the original word was a profanity. I don't speak hokkien, hence I just depended on what I was told. Just googled for it and found a page (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=walaueh) that explained its meaning ... don't know if it actually was used as a profanity as the page does not say it.
However, I am vindicated because a Singlish dictionary (http://www.singlishdictionary.com/singlish_W.htm) confirmed that it is indeed a profanity where it is derived from a cruder term and it is taken by some people to be an expletive.

I read the singlish dictionary posted by KW. Noticed that there were some errors in the dictionary.
The word wahlaueh actually is an exclamation of awe, surprise or unbelief as mentioned. This expression has been littered across videos, movies made in Singapore, and even expressed in everyday spoken Hokkien.

The error seems to have been the word derived from the transcriptic spelling from 'lau' to 'lan' which has a completely different meaning (literally penis), whereas 'lau' has no meaning in the expression of wahlau.

Hope KW will revisit the singlish dict and review it.

'Wahlaueh' has now generally been an accepted expression of surprise or astonishment, and (was it currymee) OMG is quite the equivalent (as was mentioned in the singlish dict).

Rhiga
28-06-2012, 01:32 PM
I can't imagine just one word '赞' has kicked up so much of debate!



I am surprised and can't imagine also you describe the posts/replies as debate !!

Not all are debates, some are opinion, some are discussion...

Rhiga
28-06-2012, 01:35 PM
On the one hand, we shud appreciate that the forum here did not limit us to use any language that cud be understood by others in this community here, as long as the moderator did not ban nor disapprove. Of course you can challenge the moderator, but what does that profit us?



Perhaps it is good for you to read post#24 carefully, and read a few more times before you wrote the above comment !! :rolleyes:

ivanhow
28-06-2012, 01:53 PM
Perhaps it is good for you to read post#24 carefully, and read a few more times before you wrote the above comment !! :rolleyes:
Will take your point that you meant to prove a point!:);)

ng
28-06-2012, 08:31 PM
The word wahlaueh actually is an exclamation of awe, surprise or unbelief as mentioned. This expression has been littered across videos, movies made in Singapore, and even expressed in everyday spoken Hokkien.

ahlaueh' has now generally been an accepted expression of surprise or astonishment, and (was it currymee) OMG is quite the equivalent (as was mentioned in the singlish dict).

Didn't you read my previous post ?

That is because most people don't know the original meaning of it. Just because it is widely used doesn't mean it is correct. Eg. Suka is used in Malaysian hokkien but it is originally a malay word.

Singaporeans either use hokkien, english or malay so where did this wa lau came from ? It originated from Wa Lan. It did not originated from any english or malay words. I am qualified to say this because I am an expert in cantonese and hokkien.

Wa Lau is definitely NOT spoken in Fujien province or Taiwan. Crude people there will use the original form 'Wa/Gua lan'. Because lan and lau sounds similar when spoken fast, it is now widely misunderstood in singapore and spread its influence to malaysia.

A similar analogy can be found in English, the 'four letter word', fxxx are all milder form of the original word.

ng
28-06-2012, 08:38 PM
Lim Pek seems like profanity word to some, but it went uncensored in Singapore and some say Malaysia too -

How is lim pay (not lim pek) a profanity ?

The true meaning is 'your father', usually when talking to a son and referring to the talker (the father). Although it can be used sarcastically to make the talker higher in status than the person talked to. In other words, I am your father literally.

VeeJay
28-06-2012, 09:21 PM
That is because most people don't know the original meaning of it. Just because it is widely used doesn't mean it is correct. Eg. Suka is used in Malaysian hokkien but it is originally a malay word.
.

Which in turn came from sanskrit.

zinglicious
29-06-2012, 02:17 AM
How is lim pay (not lim pek) a profanity ?

The true meaning is 'your father', usually when talking to a son and referring to the talker (the father). Although it can be used sarcastically to make the talker higher in status than the person talked to. In other words, I am your father literally.

In korek, according to Singlish movie by Jack Neoh , it is not your father literally but I. Lim Pek is I, I is Lim Pek which is at 0.30 of the video of Lim Pek like you idea

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/MkOF-8BELxU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And the searches in youtube.com is under Lim pek or lim peh and none under lim pay or you pay.


For all the Lim Peh or Lim Pek and all the problems of Kau Peh Kau Boo which is cry papa and cry mama.... :eek:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SF_MwM7N1dk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/v4RPCdE-h2w" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

ng
29-06-2012, 08:34 AM
In korek, according to Singlish movie by Jack Neoh , it is not your father literally but I. Lim Pek is I, I is Lim Pek which is at 0.30 of the video of Lim Pek like you idea



This is another misunderstanding of the another hokkien word by singaporeans or malaysians who don't know the exact meaning.

Lim Pay literally means

Lim - Your (in mandarin, it is pronounced nin)
Pay (lau pay) - Father (in mandarin, it is pronounced pa), everybody says lau pay and not lau pek.
(Pay and Peh are just different romanisation of the same sound whereas pek is totally wrong)

It has two meanings, one is the obvious.

The other meaning is it is used as a derogatory remark to mean 'I am of higher status than you' and 'you are lower class than me and you must obey my commands'. It is to impose authority on others. It does not mean 'I', I is 'gua' or 'wa'.

I suggest you listen carefully to taiwanese shows for the real meaning, they never use lim pay to mean 'I' alone. It is a derogatory remark so don't use 'lim pay' in Taiwan to strangers or else you will get a smash in the head ! There is an equvalent saying in cantonese but offhand I cannot remember it.

Just as 'Hui Chia' doesn't mean a 'car that is on fire', you cannot literally translate it.

currymee
29-06-2012, 08:44 AM
hahhahaa .... I got this SMS yesterday evening and laughed my head off ...

BTW, this parent tried to sign on the forum but was rejected by KWChang .... something about his chosen nick is not "approved" :rolleyes: :p

How do you say "ANGRY BIRD" in Hokkien ? ..... :p

bslee
29-06-2012, 01:55 PM
On the same note, there was one translation that caught my notice too, translate "Nissan (or Datsun) Bluebird car" in Hokkien. Try not to mispronounce it.

Rhiga
29-06-2012, 02:04 PM
Ng,

Don’t waste your time…There is a huge gap between what you know and what they don’t know… ;)

Being Chinese literate, we read and pronounce the language by referring to the Chinese scripts, traditional or simplified.

Those who are Chinese illiterate, they “recognize” the pronunciation which is written in Roman alphabets…:eek:

Pronunciation can be the same, but the meaning can be vastly different but they won't know because they cannot recognize the Chinese word/script.

It would be no end to what they don’t know simply because they just can’t recognize Mandarin, Hokkian, Cantonese language which is written in Chinese scripts..


Ps. Imagine you try to “recognize” Korean/Japanese language in a similar way using Roman alphabets... It would be an endless source of jokes..!!

ivanhow
29-06-2012, 02:54 PM
Didn't you read my previous post ? Well, I was commenting more on the singlish dict as mentioned in my post, not refering to your post. Now that you bring out this post, you are correct in some aspects of the word 'wa lan' and 'wa lau'. 'Wa lau' seems (I mean seems) to have some semblance of being derived from 'wa lan'. But, it's not. Refering back to the singlish dictionary (http://www.singlishdictionary.com/singlish_W.htm), the original expression of 'wa lan' or 'oa lan' (as mentioned in singlish dict "Also oa lan, wah lan. vulg") was correct in that it has got the vulgar connotation, but used in a way to express disbelief and absurdness, something to mean ridiculous.

Because of the vulgarity of the expression and hence offensive to use, the word 'wahlau' was coined to eliminate the vulgarity of the expression but retain the meaning of absurdness and disbelief, and hence the word was born. Hence, these two word have different connotation, and the word 'wahlaueh' (derived from wahlau) was coined more to have the similar meaning of disbelief and astonishment, but not propagating the vulgar connotation.

Refering back to the singlish dict, "lau, a meaningless word that is a euphemism for lan penis (see Wa Lan); or poss. Teo. 老 lao2" the word 'lau' was suggested to be an euphemism (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/euphemism) for lan (which means it was used as a substitute to eliminate the offensive connotation). 'Wa' in 'wa lau' does not carry the same meaning of 'wa' (me) as in 'wa lan', but more of 'wah' as in surprise. And 'wahlau-eh' cud also be used to mean something that is extraordinary, something above normal or sophisticated ('canggih') too.

To say 'Wa lau' originated from 'Wa Lan' is incorrect. Hope this will clarify these two words and their meaning and connotations. Hence currymee's OMG is as close as it cud go (which is supported by the singlish dict)
..Also wa lau eh, walao, walau, wah lau, wahlau. A mild exclamation expr. annoyance, disbelief, exasperation, frustration, surprise, etc.; my goodness!, oh dear!, oh, my god!, oh no!; or poss. a euphemism for Wa Lan. noticed that "or poss. a euphemism" was a suggestion, but not necessarily so.

clfoo
29-06-2012, 03:25 PM
'Wa lau' originated from 'Wa Lan' which is a crude profanity used in the hokkien community. Most people don't know the origin. To be more accurate, it should be 'Lan Jiau' and not 'Lan' as 'Lan' 卵alone mean 'egg'. You can say 'Wa lau' is a milder version of 'Wa lan'.


i beg to differ, 'wa lau' is deviate from 'wa lan' and they not carry profanity as 'wa lan', the 'lau' can refer to 'lau peh' 'lau bu' so 'wa lau' can view as '我的妈啊' or '我的爸啊' in mandarin.

zinglicious
30-06-2012, 01:39 AM
This is another misunderstanding of the another hokkien word by singaporeans or malaysians who don't know the exact meaning.

Lim Pay literally means

Lim - Your (in mandarin, it is pronounced nin)
Pay (lau pay) - Father (in mandarin, it is pronounced pa), everybody says lau pay and not lau pek.
(Pay and Peh are just different romanisation of the same sound whereas pek is totally wrong)

It has two meanings, one is the obvious.

The other meaning is it is used as a derogatory remark to mean 'I am of higher status than you' and 'you are lower class than me and you must obey my commands'. It is to impose authority on others. It does not mean 'I', I is 'gua' or 'wa'.

I suggest you listen carefully to taiwanese shows for the real meaning, they never use lim pay to mean 'I' alone. It is a derogatory remark so don't use 'lim pay' in Taiwan to strangers or else you will get a smash in the head ! There is an equvalent saying in cantonese but offhand I cannot remember it.

Just as 'Hui Chia' doesn't mean a 'car that is on fire', you cannot literally translate it.

In korek too, Sometimes it all depends on the evolution of the words or language being used just like either Bak Kut Teh or Lou San dishes which sound Chinese but really Malaysian dishes.

A/ No Chinese cooks understand me when I was trying to prepare Lou San dishes in USA!

B/ When I order Char Seet and ask Gay Dou Chien, people in KL look at me oblivious especially KL wannabe foreigners as though I am a foreigner from Ipoh Mali. In KL, it is understood as Seet Char and it is Ng Kok Chien

C/ When I was in Hong Kong, I asked for a pak yau, no waiter understand me. It is Sang Chow and if you wanna the Hark Yau, they think you are gone bonkers, as it is engine oil, instead of thick soya sauce.

D/ When I suggested we go Ta Yau, my American Chinese friends jsut couldnt understand me that it is time to fill up the gasoline. They simply kenot unstand ta yau as in shot the gas.

E/When I say In Lui we trust, Overseas or Mainland Chinese would asked me "say what"? In Chin, we trust. It is just in Bolehland, we understand from Just Duit it from left hand to the right hand.

F/ Finally, My younger American friends would greet me " Wassaup Dawg? " which I find it offensive at first. Justr imagine I was the Manager of 500 seater restuarant and my busboy called me a dog! I nearly fired the poor fella! All well ends well as he actually liked me to call me his friend. In fact, you greet someone you are close, you would say he is your bitch, though it can sound offensive to who, how and when you say it.

On the one hand, language is spoken and has different universal meanings within the same word or characther.

On the other hand, heck what do I know? I am just an Old Mean Chef, not a linguist x pert. I depend on Jack Neoh dictionary of Lim Pek for I, I is Lim Pek.

ng
30-06-2012, 02:31 PM
i beg to differ, 'wa lau' is deviate from 'wa lan' and they not carry profanity as 'wa lan', the 'lau' can refer to 'lau peh' 'lau bu' so 'wa lau' can view as '我的妈啊' or '我的爸啊' in mandarin.

if you stubborn guys want to propagate a profanity , then it is up to you. The 'lau' in 'wa lau' has a different tone (high rising tone) than the 'lau peh' (low falling tone) but has the same tone as 'wa lan' where it originated from.

I am sure people here don't need me to teach you that different tones mean a different chinese character and meaning.

The singapore hokkien association has already verified it as profanity and you guys still want to argue ?

someday, somebody will also say 'the four letter word or fxxx' is also not a profanity because it is different from the original word. :laugh:

so i can say 'f you' because it sounds different. :laugh:

sigh.... the level of hokkien, cantonese proficiency in malaysia and singapore is really the pits. even the girls now use 'tiu' without knowing the actual meaning.

zinglicious
30-06-2012, 05:18 PM
FCUK is not profanity - it is a high end branded t shirt. :heheheh:

currymee
30-06-2012, 06:08 PM
if you stubborn guys want to propagate a profanity , then it is up to you. The 'lau' in 'wa lau' has a different tone (high rising tone) than the 'lau peh' (low falling tone) but has the same tone as 'wa lan' where it originated from.

I am sure people here don't need me to teach you that different tones mean a different chinese character and meaning.

The singapore hokkien association has already verified it as profanity and you guys still want to argue ?

someday, somebody will also say 'the four letter word or fxxx' is also not a profanity because it is different from the original word. :laugh:

...

ng,

hahaha ... :) COOL ... :cool:

You see, Mr KWChang (our banana dispenser) does not know any Hokkien, ahem :rolleyes:, ... so IF he suddenly get smarter and more proficient in the "higher" :p level of Hokkien, many of us will be "MONKEYS" for life :D :D

So, don't teach him to be TOO SMART ... not too good for us .... ;)

Already he is relying on Goggle Translate ... but as we know, Google will cock-up just like the MinDef website :p ...

So, let's have FUN will the SUN still shine .... :mua-haha:

clfoo
02-07-2012, 02:08 AM
if you stubborn guys want to propagate a profanity , then it is up to you. The 'lau' in 'wa lau' has a different tone (high rising tone) than the 'lau peh' (low falling tone) but has the same tone as 'wa lan' where it originated from.

I am sure people here don't need me to teach you that different tones mean a different chinese character and meaning.

The singapore hokkien association has already verified it as profanity and you guys still want to argue ?

someday, somebody will also say 'the four letter word or fxxx' is also not a profanity because it is different from the original word. :laugh:

so i can say 'f you' because it sounds different. :laugh:

sigh.... the level of hokkien, cantonese proficiency in malaysia and singapore is really the pits. even the girls now use 'tiu' without knowing the actual meaning.


wa lau eh (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=walau-eh), going hysterical and forcing ppl to believe what you believe, how diff is this attitude from perkasa?

if u refer to this link http://www.singlishdictionary.com/singlish_W.htm to backup your claim that singapore hokkien association verified it as profanity, it's only a personal opinion from a board member and then y u conveniently disregard teow chew association vice president think it's nothing wrong ?

actually not my concern if u wanna fxxx whatever u want, you r responsible of your own action not me.

ivanhow
02-07-2012, 04:23 PM
i beg to differ, 'wa lau' is deviate from 'wa lan' and they not carry profanity as 'wa lan', the 'lau' can refer to 'lau peh' 'lau bu' so 'wa lau' can view as '我的妈啊' or '我的爸啊' in mandarin.In some ways, clfoo is right, '我的妈啊' or '我的爸啊' can be expressed as '我的老妈啊' or '我的老爸啊' or in short '我的老啊' or even shortened to '我老啊'. This becomes expressed as 'Wa-lau-eh' in Hokkien. This corollary is a more logical explanation to how the word has evolved.

ivanhow
02-07-2012, 04:26 PM
Interestingly, the singlish dictionary's research took into account an article entitled "Is wah lau vulgar or harmless? (http://freepages.family.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~jacklee/Files/20021201-ST-WahLauVulgarorHarmless.pdf)" written by Karl Ho on the The Straits Times (Singapore) on 1st Dec 2002.

Who is this 'Tan Kim Hock' who was quoted as "A Mr Tan Kim Hock wrote in to The Straits Times Forum to express his displeasure at Neo..."? Other than the Roger Tan by the same name, who had been a businessman, and who has contributed to the scholarship awards offered in the London School of Economics, there is no other reference to him than the objection written in the Straits Times about his displeasure. There was no account or citation of how he arrived at his 'displeasure'.

"Mr Kua Soon Khe, 50, the executive secretary of the Singapore Hokkien Huay Kuan clan association, says that such a crude phrase should not be highlighted because it reinforces the stigma that the Hokkien language is profane and unrefined."
He commented that the word wah lau, "is commonly believed to be derived from the cruder wah lan, which can be translated loosely as ‘oh, my penis’". That was only a belief which he expressed, but has not offered any example to show how and in what circumstances such an expression was ever used, together with it's meaning and connotation. The belief exists only in his imagination.

"Mr Lim Guan Hock, 56, a board member of the Hokkien Huay Kuan, says that wah lau evolved when wah lan was pronounced slightly differently." Mr. Lim who is also from the same association, however differed in his views in that the word wah lau seems to have evolved when pronounced slightly differently. And he went on to say that it "did not really mean anything."

Of course, we all cannot take this argument (in that) the way these two words are spoken are so different in sound and in intonation. Hence, his argument which is based merely on a twisting of sounds is highly improbable. However, what remained (after the tongue twisting) was to express the meaning of the word without the vulgar connotation of 'lan'. And he was not able to distinguish these two words in terms of connotation. If you understand the meaning of connontation, then you will understand that these two words mean differently in terms of connotation. It's the way of expressing it that makes the difference. It's like saying 'neh' passively without any expression, and saying 'neh' with the middle finger pointing up! The only difference being the same intonation used here more-or-less.

On the other hand, there were letters that poured in to support Neo's defense on the often-used expression.

"Mr Lim Yew Ping, for instance, applauded him for upholding his ‘dialect mother tongue’."

"Dr Phua Kok Khoo, 60, vice-president of the Singapore Teochew Poit It Huay Kuan clan association, thinks there is nothing wrong with wah lau."and he said that ‘The Teochew-and Hokkien-speaking Chinese use it as an informal and casual utterance of surprise.’ Dr Phua, who also teaches at the National University of Singapore’s science faculty, adds: ‘It is nothing rude, and is definitely a common phrase used in daily Singaporean life.’

According to the exerpt "Is wah lau vulgar or harmless?" byKarl Ho (http://freepages.family.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~jacklee/Files/20021201-ST-WahLauVulgarorHarmless.pdf), Mr Yang Bin, a chemical engineer from Fuzhou City in Fujian province and who moved to Singapore" feels, 'there is nothing wrong with the term and that it is not lewd.'

And also, "Professor Zhou Chang Ji, who teaches dialects and linguistics in Xiamen University in China, says that phrases initially perceived as offensive can become acceptable through frequent usage." And he used the expression of 'ta ma de' as an example of what he meant. But, that's for another context in which a word with an original (insulting) meaning has evolved which he explained.

Numerous more examples had been quoted in the singlish dictionary (http://www.singlishdictionary.com/singlish_W.htm) in support of the expression as accepted everyday expression without the vulgar connotation as was believed or thought.
*2002 Niamh O’Leary et. al. The Straits Times (Life!), 14 May, L2 Wah lau, this one same also!
*2002 Lim Lye Choon The Straits Times, 28 November. Anyone fluent in Hokkien or Teochew will know that ‘wah lau’ translates into ‘my dad’, not much different from those who say ‘My God’ in English. To insist on there being a pun [on wa lan] is to conduct a linguistic witch hunt.
*2002 Lim Yew Peng The Straits Times, 28 November. I am very angry with the writer who said the phrase ‘wah lau’ is a vulgar expletive uttered by uncouth, crass or foul-mouthed men! Tell him I utter these words very often to my friends, and even to my children. But I am not the sort of man he described. Anyway, ‘wah lau’ is not vulgar. .. ‘Wah’, as every Teochew or Hokkien will know, is a dialect word meaning ‘me’ or ‘I’. ‘Lau’ means ‘old’ or ‘old man’, if you refer to an old man. ‘Wah lau’ is merely an exclamation, the way English-speaking people use ‘Oh, my God’. You can hear ‘wah lau’ when people are surprised, or excited to explain something.
*2003 Neil Humphreys Weekend Today, 22–23 November, 6 Wah lau, so troublesome.
*2003 ‘Mr Brown’ (Lee Kin Mun) Today, 13 February, 34 My goodness! (I was going to say, Wah Lau Eh! But we have to be proper here.)
*2004 Elisa Chia (quoting Jean Danker) Today, 16 June, 25 It’s like, wah lau! I practically grew up on radio and people saw me from the 16-year-old girl with short hair until now.
*2004 Wong Kim Hoh The Sunday Times (LifeStyle), 20 June, 38 Wah lau.. like that how can?
*2007 Matthew Pereira (quoting Shaun Pereira) The Sunday Times (LifeStyle), 2 September, L12 Wahlau! But I earn so little.

Hence, you can safely conclude that the Hokkien word 'wah lau eh' is a non-offensive non-vulgar word which means surprise, unexpected, unbelievable, disbelief, ridiculous, astonishment and the works like 'Oh my', 'Oh My God!', 'Oh No!'...

kwchang
02-07-2012, 05:19 PM
Actually, what we have dug up here is the "hidden" history behind the evolution of language.
In language, if a word or sentence is used repeatedly for another meaning, it evolves away from the original source.
I do not doubt that it actually was intentionally made to sound different from the original words (by even the slightest change in pronunciation of one word) but it carried the 'urge' to express an expletive (as we know some people need by force of habit, to utter expletives) without it proclaiming a vulgarity.

No matter if it had evolved ... but there is enough references to link it back to the root cause. And so it becomes a 'civilised' expletive.... and the meaning gets lost in time and begin to sound like just another OMG expression

Similarly, if you are watching the movies, TV or even reading western (English) ... you may come across the expression "Gee" or "Geez". Did you know that it came from the original expletive "Jesus !".If you don't belive me, check out minced oaths (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minced_oath). Yes, you think this problem is Hokkien? No my friends, it had already existed donkeys' years ago in the West.

Boy, I like educating you flers (if you did not know this already) :D ;) :heheheh:

Hence forth, no matter how you argue it, at least be aware that it was originally an expletive or a vulgar word
Moral of my story .... "walu eh" is going to make you look less civilised.
Why can't we talk with proper language instead of using curse phrases (at least phrases that sound like curses)?

And by the way, I can also refer you to a psychological /mental problem where some people need to make vulgar expressions .... that will be another thread of discussion if you would like to talk about that ;)

mykern
02-07-2012, 07:23 PM
And by the way, I can also refer you to a psychological /mental problem where some people need to make vulgar expressions .... that will be another thread of discussion if you would like to talk about that ;)
Beh yau kin ..... beh sai ..... thau thia sai!~

ivanhow
02-07-2012, 08:40 PM
Beh yau kin ..... beh sai ..... thau thia sai!~

Here is an excellent example of a word that may land up in hot soup. 'beh sai'... if those who only know that 'sai' means 'shit', but 'beh sai' has nothing to do with the same 'shit' here. It's got an entirely different meaning as in 'cannot'... So, is it an expletive to say 'beh sai'? No! It's not!

But, again if the intonation is the other way around, 'beh sai' may end up as horse shit! or just 'the last'.

Language is alive and evolves, its meanings evolve and had to be taken in the context of the subject matter, not simply concluding without knowing the context and subject matter. That's why each language has it's subtleties and expressions that is well understood only within the existence of the community. It's the inaccurate and sometimes presumed interpretation outside of the community that usually lands up hot soup and the root cause of the offensiveness.

There are many who in soceity who are very civilised, but will accept the expression of 'wah-lau-eh' without ever linking it to 'wah lan' in any way, and to suggest it does is indeed offensive to the expressor as in the citation noted in the exerpt note *2002.

*2002 Lim Yew Peng The Straits Times, 28 November.
"I am very angry with the writer who said the phrase ‘wah lau’ is a vulgar expletive uttered by uncouth, crass or foul-mouthed men! Tell him I utter these words very often to my friends, and even to my children. But I am not the sort of man he described. Anyway, ‘wah lau’ is not vulgar. .. ‘Wah’, as every Teochew or Hokkien will know, is a dialect word meaning ‘me’ or ‘I’. ‘Lau’ means ‘old’ or ‘old man’, if you refer to an old man. ‘Wah lau’ is merely an exclamation, the way English-speaking people use ‘Oh, my God’. You can hear ‘wah lau’ when people are surprised, or excited to explain something. "

zinglicious
03-07-2012, 12:32 AM
Thyer is evolution from industries to languages. Even Mandarin has gone pin yin where old school of traditional Chinese would sneer at the changes where the Chinese characther is losing the meaning and beauty with the loss of strokes here and there.

Ask the younger English speaking generation especially those who are not reading bible where Thou shalt to You shall. If we maintain the civilisation or culture of speaking Olde proper Emglish, people in the iSmart era just couldnt comprehend what you are saying. Y generation would say Wassaup? Odle generation would ask 'What is that?

eddychan
03-07-2012, 08:02 AM
... I can also refer you to a psychological /mental problem where some people need to make vulgar expressions .... that will be another thread of discussion if you would like to talk about that ;)

Strongly recommended for people who have recently declared themselves as "experts in profanity" in the earlier posts!

Rhiga
03-07-2012, 08:09 AM
.... Even Mandarin has gone pin yin where old school of traditional Chinese would sneer at the changes where the Chinese characther is losing the meaning and beauty with the loss of strokes here and there.



Zing,
With due respect, please do not post something which you are not sure. !

漢語拼音(Hanyu Pinyin) is NOT a revolution of the Chinese language..

Hanyu literally means language of Hans People, and Pinyin means to spell the sound.

It was developed as an input method using alphabets to facilitate Chinese language in computer word processing as Chinese scripts are too complicated to be a standard method for keyboard/computer input.

In order to use Pin Ying, you must know Hanyu i.e you have to know the written scripts of Hanyu, then only you know what the words you wanna input using the keyboard..

Hence, if you are not Chinese literate, Hanyu Pinyin is useless to you..!!
You may know how to pronounce the word but you still don’t know what the word looks like..

Cheers

zinglicious
03-07-2012, 09:33 AM
Never really study hanyu or Pinyin, but could get by .....writing love lettters to all the girls I loved before. :D

Had early lesson my my dad and brothers who were in the Chinese schools before I was sent to the missionary school where I learnt more on Ceasar, Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet. Really miss the opportunity to actually learn Mandarin where I missed out all those meaningful words from Three Kingdoms to Dream of the Red Chambers, Mencius to Confuzius until I am confused of the actual meaning in the lost of translation.

Anyway, that is my limited understanding and there's where the usj.com.my comes into play. Ask and it shalt be answered. ;)

Phew, it is fortunate that Bananaman is just as clueless as me. Otherwise, I would be banished to the plantation corner. :eek:

kwchang
03-07-2012, 01:10 PM
... it is fortunate that Bananaman is just as clueless as me...
Not quite. I know what Hanyu Pinyin is because both my kids were enrolled in vernacular school. Recently I had to search for Chinese songs on youtube but I only had the full Chinese song sheet - asked my daughter for the pinyin script for the titles and with the Chinese input (using pinyin) on my notebook, I successfully found all the songs I needed to listen to.

For computers, using hanyu pinyin is necessry if you need to input Chinese script while using the standard QWERTY keyboard.

and by the way, on my smartphone, I have an Android app that allows me to find words in a Chinese dictionary (Lianghao Chinese dictionary app by Andreas Graf) using hanyu pinyin or direct strokes. In order to do direct strokes, you will need to install a keyboard app that allows for that and I use the Go Keyboard


...Hence, if you are not Chinese literate, Hanyu Pinyin is useless to you..!!
You may know how to pronounce the word but you still don’t know what the word looks like.. Not quite as well, there is no way for someone who is uneducated in Mandarin (or a native speaker) is able to pronounce the hanyu pinyin correctly due to the multiple tones in the pronunciation... at least 4 tones in Mandarin.

Rhiga
03-07-2012, 02:07 PM
.... Not quite as well, there is no way for someone who is uneducated in Mandarin (or a native speaker) is able to pronounce the hanyu pinyin correctly due to the multiple tones in the pronunciation... at least 4 tones in Mandarin.

You are absolutely correct…

Well, I am being generous not to say there is no way [I said they may know], at least there is still ¼ of possibility for them to strike the right pronunciation using alphabets…;) :heheheh:

I hope your post would help/educate the readers in this thread to ignore those who wrote in length about Mandarin or Hokkien by just referring to the monotone of roman alphabets.. :rolleyes:

When I read their posts, I can’t refrain myself not to think of parrot which is only good in repeat/imitate a pronunciation without understand the actual meaning !! :rolleyes:

Anywhere, parrot is still a praise to describe these people as I have not seen a parrot that can pronounce multiple tones from the same Chinese word/script... maybe a surgery to change its tongue may help..;)

zinglicious
03-07-2012, 02:51 PM
Not quite. I know what Hanyu Pinyin is because both my kids were enrolled in vernacular school. Recently I had to search for Chinese songs on youtube but I only had the full Chinese song sheet - asked my daughter for the pinyin script for the titles and with the Chinese input (using pinyin) on my notebook, I successfully found all the songs I needed to listen to.

For computers, using hanyu pinyin is necessry if you need to input Chinese script while using the standard QWERTY keyboard.

and by the way, on my smartphone, I have an Android app that allows me to find words in a Chinese dictionary (Lianghao Chinese dictionary app by Andreas Graf) using hanyu pinyin or direct strokes. In order to do direct strokes, you will need to install a keyboard app that allows for that and I use the Go Keyboard

Not quite as well, there is no way for someone who is uneducated in Mandarin (or a native speaker) is able to pronounce the hanyu pinyin correctly due to the multiple tones in the pronunciation... at least 4 tones in Mandarin.

Alamak instead of walau pun eh.... You also know the trick ah? You getting smart with iSmart phone. BTW, I only got one big problem - after installing the Mandarin Microsoft words, I got hard to nagivate on my youtube.com gets cranky on me when I have Mandarin characthers on all my viewing instructions and searches!:eek:

Rhiga
03-07-2012, 03:01 PM
Someone mentioned God in this thread…

http://www.usj.com.my/bulletin/upload/showthread.php?35095-99-99-God-Particle-Found!


Ok, lets me give a free demonstration of the multiple meanings of this word [God] in Chinese when combine with another Chinese word…

In Chinese, God is 神, girl is 女, hand is 手.

What is the meaning of these words in English :
1.神手
2.神女

Google translate will tell you…
1. hand of God
2. Goddess

But the real meaning in Chinese is

1.神手 (it is commonly refer to excavator)
2.神女 (it actually refer to prostitute)

Have fun....:heheheh:

zinglicious
03-07-2012, 03:11 PM
Korek, Korek, korek. No wonder when I try to read and understand Confucius old sagesayings and wise words of adivce, I got lost in translation.

Just imagine - 神女 (it actually refer to prostitute) when I want to know about God. Or when I wanna to understand what is 神手, it would be translated into Maradona goal in World Cup 1986.

zinglicious
03-07-2012, 08:42 PM
Evolution of my Chinese language in communcation -

Shi Shi - Roll call to pee

Ng Ng - time to Banzai

Mum Mum - makan time

Gai Gai - time for ride

Oi Oi - time to sleep.

Arh...- time to open mouth.

Aiyoh or iSayman - time to hide ( as I might have done something wrong...broken something....or spill something or draw my masterpiece on the wall )

ivanhow
04-07-2012, 12:58 AM
Google translate will tell you…
1. hand of God
2. Goddess

But the real meaning in Chinese is

1.神手 (it is commonly refer to excavator)
2.神女 (it actually refer to prostitute)

Have fun....:heheheh:
However, Google Translate will return these two words with a different character...
Excavator 挖掘機 and prostitute 妓女:heheheh:

Maybe you can share how these two words evolved to mean so differently from its root words.:)

Rhiga
04-07-2012, 07:58 AM
However, Google Translate will return these two words with a different character...
Excavator 挖掘機 and prostitute 妓女:heheheh:

Maybe you can share how these two words evolved to mean so differently from its root words.:)

In English, excavator will carry the meaning of excavator. Unless the spelling of the word is wrong, it will always carry the same meaning because English word is derived from alphabets and alphabet itself has no meaning.

Hence, when you input excavator/prostitute into a translator and ask for the meaning in Chinese, you will get the correct answer.


However, this is totally different with Chinese language.
A single Chinese word carries a specific meaning and when it combines with another Chinese word, the meaning can be different and multiples..

Ivanhow,
If you still don't get the point, try to translate your surname 'how'. (I am assuming 'how' is your surname, just like Teo is the surname of Patrick Teo)

Google translate will tell you the meaning of ’how’ is 如何 !!

如何 is not the meaning of your surname, it is the meaning of how in English !!

'how' was used by your ancestor in this land to represent your Chinese surname based on the dialect pronunciation and there is no such meaning in the the English translator ..

Hope you get the point now and hope you can relate it to the lengthy debate/discussion among you guys of the words “wau lan” and “wau lau”...

currymee
04-07-2012, 08:13 AM
.... BOTTOMLINE: WALAU .... can or cannot use in THIS FORUM ? ;) .... will we get BANANAs for it or not ? :confused: :p

Hhehehee ... thank God, I am not KWChang .... :p ... then again ... he has already "closed one eye" in his avatar wor !! :mua-haha:

eddychan
04-07-2012, 08:15 AM
However, Google Translate will return these two words with a different character...
Excavator 挖掘機 and prostitute 妓女:heheheh:

Maybe you can share how these two words evolved to mean so differently from its root words.:)

What Rhiga is trying to explain is that 神手 and 神女 are actually abstract interpretations of the language, while "Excavator 挖掘機 and prostitute 妓女" are the technical interpretations of the language.

Abstract interpretations are often used by people who label themselves as "wise old men" who throws these verses to confuse the "unlearned". If they cannot interpret the verse correctly, these wise old men would give a wry smile and claim that they have eaten more salt than the unlearned have eaten rice.

Such abstracts are also common in Malaysia. One of the first I learnt was.. "Saya ingin pergi Pejabat Pos". I will let the forumers here give their interpretations, failing which I can say I have eaten sambal belacan more than you have eaten nasi.

Rhiga
04-07-2012, 08:26 AM
However, Google Translate will return these two words with a different character...
Excavator 挖掘機 and prostitute 妓女:heheheh:

Maybe you can share how these two words evolved to mean so differently from its root words.:)


Obviously, the confusion arise because you can't understand Chinese language scripts!!

神手 is commonly refer to 挖掘機.
However, 挖掘機 is not neccessary a 神手...:p
挖掘機 can be used in digging a subsurface tunnel but 神手 cannot.

神女 is prostitute. It is a more elegant description of 妓女.
神女 is widely used in the ancient Middle Kingdom time.

I end my post here..
You guys continue to have fun..!!

Rhiga
04-07-2012, 08:33 AM
What Rhiga is trying to explain is that 神手 and 神女 are actually abstract interpretations of the language, while "Excavator 挖掘機 and prostitute 妓女" are the technical interpretations of the language.



No, this is not what I am trying to explain..

eddychan
04-07-2012, 08:53 AM
Obviously, the confusion arise because you can't understand Chinese language scripts!!

神手 is commonly refer to 挖掘機.
However, 挖掘機 is not neccessary a 神手...:p
挖掘機 can be used in digging a subsurface tunnel but 神手 cannot.

神女 is prostitute. It is a more elegant description of 妓女.
神女 is widely used in the ancient Middle Kingdom time.

I end my post here..
You guys continue to have fun..!!

Actually, the confusion arise because you can't understand Engineering terms

挖掘機 means "Digging machine", or "excavator", meaning the entire vehicle, including the excavator arm
神手 means "magical hand", or the excavator arm, so called because they can perform "magical tasks" in constructions, as they can complete a job 100 times faster than your illegal immigrant. A 神手 can be attached to any suitable vehicle, such as tractors where it is called a "back hoe"

Rhiga
04-07-2012, 09:14 AM
Actually, the confusion arise because you can't understand Engineering terms

挖掘機 means "Digging machine", or "excavator", meaning the entire vehicle, including the excavator arm
神手 means "magical hand", or the excavator arm, so called because they can perform "magical tasks" in constructions, as they can complete a job 100 times faster than your illegal immigrant. A 神手 can be attached to any suitable vehicle, such as tractors where it is called a "back hoe"

You want to digress to engineering topic.. ;)

My 1st advice to you is read my post carefully
I said - 神手 is commonly refer to as 挖掘機.
I thought your English should be better than me !! :rolleyes:

My 2nd advice to you is try to read Chinese newspapers and see which one is used to represent excavator !!

If you can't read, seek help !!