When we BECOME and REALLY FEEL MORTAL .....

[currymee]

I don't know about some of the forumers here who are more rational etc ... but I am sure many of us do "feel" that we and our loved ones are "INDESTRUCTIBLE" and will be OK come what may ..... until one day, we go and see the doctor and was told that we are suffering from this and that .... it is in the genes, it is incurable, it is fate ....

Wow, that MOMENT of "realisation" that we are MERE MORTAL can be very very "moving" .... :( Really don't know what to say, what to think, what to do .... JUST WENT BLANK !!

That was what one of my relation went through recently and it kind of hit on me too .... I also went BLANK ....

[Dervish]

I get nightmares from all this BLANK too. Every new pain or aches gets me wondering if the BLANKS have caught up with me. Perhaps it will pass us by and leave us untouched.

If I had to go, I would want to go instantly.

We're talking about life and death, are we? No?

[DarkNite]

I get nightmares from all this BLANK too. Every new pain or aches gets me wondering if the BLANKS have caught up with me. Perhaps it will pass us by and leave us untouched.

If I had to go, I would want to go instantly.

We're talking about life and death, are we? No?

After watching my father and other close relative dying of cancer, I too would prefer to go instantly.

[Dervish]

After watching my father and other close relative dying of cancer, I too would prefer to go instantly.

Which begs the question ...

I have been contemplating this matter for a while, watching people die of cancer. CHEMOTHERAPY. Does it really help? How many survived chemotherapy and cancer without in the end succumbing to death? If so, why waste time and resources on a fallacy?

Any thoughts?

[pjclown]

JESUS CHRIST is your answer if you want it. I hope all do.

[burntan]

I will worry less when I look at all those insurance bills....

[currymee]

Imagine how a person will feel when the doctor tells him/her, it is in the GENES, there is nothing we can do about it, it is incurable ... it is as good as telling the person, it is just your BAD LUCK, NEXT ....

The immediate reaction would be, COME ON, THERE MUST BE SOMETHING YOU CAN DO or SOMETHING OUT THERE !!!

After a while, when the reality sinks in, then we realised that as humans, we know NUTS ...... ok, it is medically true what the doctor said, it is in the GENES, but haven't we heard this reasoning/explanation way too often until it becomes an "opt-out" .... can't the doctors go and mess around with the genes or something ? That was what my friend who was diagnosed with cancer asked me .... he said, man goes to the moon, built skyscrapers, jump over tall buildings in a single bounce, bullet-proof vests, aka almost superman like powers etc etc .... but these small tiny cancer cells, cannot cure ????????

[jan tomaswaki]

They is a saying..."while science explain how virus multiply,it remain unanswer how a tear is shed.

[zinglicious]

Hong Kong was given away to the British as compensation in the Opium war upon advice of the geomancy sifu because it is a consideredas bad Fung Shui unlucky island. Why is it Hong Kong changed the financial landscape from bad Fung Shui that even the frequent Typhoons could not stop the economics success of creating Tycoons!
Willpower of Manpower! Art of War by Sun Tzu - Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack.

My dad ( stroke ) died when he was just 50 and my brother ( cancer ) even earlier at 40. So, far touch wood by avoiding bad food which enhance the bad genes from mutating nad getting strike by stroke, all my brothers and sister have outlive them.

Canned food especially tau si yee or Maggi Me is out of our daily menu list, coke is out, while greens in with mushrooms with herbs and spices to enhance healthy and taste. Drinks lots of juices, tea, and H20 including beer too ( as my late brother dun drink liqour ).

Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack. With the antioxidant from natural food, hebs and spices to arm our bodies to fight and prevent cells from being attacked while avoiding our body being weaken by high salt intake or artificial flavorings & preservatives i.e. MSG, industrial colors and toxic materials.

Keeping your enemies close and your "friends" even closer. http://www.consumer.org.my/index.php/food/safety/138-is-msg-safe and http://www.consumer.org.my/index.php/homepage/slideshow/437-sugar

So it is prudent that you dont take any food which is excitotxin - exciting to take but toxic for intake. Prevention is better than cure - Simple medical logic where people would cry over spilled milk. Amazing, but true! One ulgy truth where people find it hard to accept, yet except to blame on genes and bad luck.

Good Luck comes in Good Food Package.

[Dervish]

You are absolutely right. Thank you for the reminder. We should take the necessary precaution and leave every other thing to chance.


Hong Kong was given away to the British as compensation in the Opium war upon advice of the geomancy sifu because it is a consideredas bad Fung Shui unlucky island. Why is it Hong Kong changed the financial landscape from bad Fung Shui that even the frequent Typhoons could not stop the economics success of creating Tycoons!
Willpower of Manpower! Art of War by Sun Tzu - Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack.

My dad ( stroke ) died when he was just 50 and my brother ( cancer ) even earlier at 40. So, far touch wood by avoiding bad food which enhance the bad genes from mutating nad getting strike by stroke, all my brothers and sister have outlive them.

Canned food especially tau si yee or Maggi Me is out of our daily menu list, coke is out, while greens in with mushrooms with herbs and spices to enhance healthy and taste. Drinks lots of juices, tea, and H20 including beer too ( as my late brother dun drink liqour ).

Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack. With the antioxidant from natural food, hebs and spices to arm our bodies to fight and prevent cells from being attacked while avoiding our body being weaken by high salt intake or artificial flavorings & preservatives i.e. MSG, industrial colors and toxic materials.

Keeping your enemies close and your "friends" even closer. http://www.consumer.org.my/index.php/food/safety/138-is-msg-safe and http://www.consumer.org.my/index.php/homepage/slideshow/437-sugar

So it is prudent that you dont take any food which is excitotxin - exciting to take but toxic for intake. Prevention is better than cure - Simple medical logic where people would cry over spilled milk. Amazing, but true! One ulgy truth where people find it hard to accept, yet except to blame on genes and bad luck.

Good Luck comes in Good Food Package.

[zinglicious]

You are absolutely right. Thank you for the reminder. We should take the necessary precaution and leave every other thing to chance.

That is why I leaving it to chance to restart my restaurant to make the world of difference & promote it like http://www.paulnewmansown.com.au/ via Sporttoto Jackpot. :D

Otherwise I got to slog it out for a couple of years through real estate, for real! :)

[DarkNite]

Which begs the question ...

I have been contemplating this matter for a while, watching people die of cancer. CHEMOTHERAPY. Does it really help? How many survived chemotherapy and cancer without in the end succumbing to death? If so, why waste time and resources on a fallacy?

Any thoughts?

These days they categorize your survival rate.

[xinrong]

Which begs the question ...
I have been contemplating this matter for a while, watching people die of cancer. CHEMOTHERAPY. Does it really help? How many survived chemotherapy and cancer without in the end succumbing to death? If so, why waste time and resources on a fallacy?Any thoughts?
Methinks humans, like all beings, have the instinct to fight to live. Most would want to cling to life, in a lot of cases, they have unfinished responsibilities or issues. On the other hand if the prognosis is really so bad, then better to let go and save the funds for the ones left behind esp if there are dependents involved. Anyhow it is more important how much we have lived in life than how long we live, better to have short but productive life than a long mediocre one and having sat through last moments of others have also taught me that a good death is as important as a good life. I'm more afraid of losing my mind and memory while in excellent health, like when I quite regularly forget where I left my specs and cannot see well enough to find them by myself...

[zinglicious]

I concur with you. If the medical prognosis is bad, I rather spend the monies instead of the surgeon who makes the monies by cutting me and put on the chemotherapy. In fact, that's what the Surgeon did to my brother when she cut but did not operate further as the cancer cells as spread out to ohter vital areas. Her exact response -" why let him suffer with further cuts? " In my sister case, she cut her whole breast out but she is still alive until today. Dato Dr Suseela is not only a competent doctor but an ethical one for not being knife happy unless necessary.

Then as in the sign of old age where we could be suffering from dementia or memory loss, it is still debatable whether it is worth living for....though it sadden at times to see your love ones agony of not remembering who is who or the good memories of time together.

Anyway, forgetting where you put your glasses is not memory loss but poor memory where it occurs in young and old. But if you kenot recall where you hide your monies, girlfriends or boyfriends - then it is a big problem. Definitely sign of aging!:D

Then again we have a condition what we called " selective memory loss" - we choose to forget what we dont wanna to hear from " selective deafness" syndrome. :rolleyes:

[zinglicious]

I get nightmares from all this BLANK too. Every new pain or aches gets me wondering if the BLANKS have caught up with me. Perhaps it will pass us by and leave us untouched.

If I had to go, I would want to go instantly.

We're talking about life and death, are we? No?


The origin of suffering is attachment – not only do we fail to know reality but we mis-know it. We attribute permanence to impermanence. The physical universe is constant change, but we know it as permanent – change is the only thing there is. Our ideas, the objects that surround us, and our perceptions, are all transient. Even our idea of “self” is a delusion since there is no permanent self. Craving and clinging to these inevitably leads to suffering. From one of the Dharma quotes to understand the loss due to sufferings.

[xinrong]

In short, nothing is forever, so we must treasure what we have...I remember this incident from my Form 6 days. I went to a funeral of my schoolmate's father. He came home for lunch one afternoon,went back to work and promptly collapsed and died from a heart attack. Her mother was distraught but my schoolmate was very calm. She told us that she was very close to her father and had lots of good memories whereas her parents often quarrelled and her mother regretted not having apologised. After almost thirty years, these words still stayed with me, be careful how we treat our loved ones, for each day when we leave home, there's no promise of coming back. My father one day said he felt a bit dizzy and barely three months later, I was saying goodbye at the crematorium. I wish I let him eat the durian he wanted so much to...and oh, by the way, Zing, you were right about the food. My father 'inherited' cancer genes from my grandfather who died of liver cancer near 70. My father took very great care of his health. He exercised, cut off unhealthy food to bare minimum (occasional BKT) and took lots of herbs (his fave being misai kuching). He lived past 70..in between two annual medical checkups. The point, I guess, is to push the stage of illness as far as possible into the old age...

[zinglicious]

The trick of eating unhealthy food is like the Dharma - dont get attached with artificially nice MSG or artificially sweetener aspartamate where it is found in Coke or MCD. I do drink Coke or bring my kids to KFC once in every blue bright moon. Ever since I am cooking at home every nite and breakfast - My children oredi get unattached cravings for outside foods. The loss at Subang Zing is a gain to my children.

Actually when I post to the reply, it was my intention to point out that we should treasue what we have with our families or friends during our life time. Memories is great but it would be better we live life to the fullest where we can leave this world by saying -

I have lived a great life with a good fight where it would be memorable to those who know me for my deeds.
After all we came to the world crying with nothing , it makes dollar and sense to leave smiling with something.

[RGRaj]

If death is the natural conclusion of life, then why are we very much afraid of it?

[cml]

If we can die quickly its ok but then if we dont and we have to spend loads of money to 'cure' it then it can be a very unnerving affair as the doctors normally cannot predict when or if it would be over. If the money/insurance is there it is not so bad but if it is not then its another worry. I had a brother in law who died in his sleep at the age of 29. He was not sick or anything but apparently he had a heart attack and he was not overweight , was the occasional smoker/drinker. Sometimes when I cannot sleep and toss and turn I have this fear that if i go to sleep I might never wake up. He practically had his arm over his eyes to block out the light in his room and by the time he was discovered, he was stiff already and I still have phobia about sleeping in that position till this day and that happened 3/4 years ago.

[currymee]

GOOD QUESTION - answer - I don't know but I am sure many are bloody scared stiff of the GREAT UNKNOWN and BEYOND ....


If death is the natural conclusion of life, then why are we very much afraid of it?

[zinglicious]

What is widely known that Good Guys go to Heaven and sing hymns while Bad Guys go to Hell...... to party with booze.:D

[cml]

We are here to live our lives now thats what I believe in. If I am meant to be in the next life I would have been there and not here.

[currymee]

I got a PM asking why am I talking about such a morbid subject ? Am I suffering from some sorts of terminal illness ?

As far as I know, I am still in the PINK OF HEALTH. I am just relating what a friend and a relation recently went through when they were diagnosed with illnesses by the doctors. What they could not "comprehend" or "accept" THEN, but now, they have "calmed" down and go about tackling their illnesses as advised.

What they could not comprehend was the FACT that when diagnosed, the reason given was "it is in the genes", nothing much the medical profession can do on that aspect except to control the environment, i.e. lifestyle, diet etc .... So, like all people, they went BLANK for a while and started questioning about all the advances in science and medicine but this small thing called GENES, nothing they can do .... ???? What about all those genomic sequencing they have read about, stem cell research, gene therapy etc .... I told them, HOLLYWOOD and HOSPITAL are WORLD'S APART ..... so after a while, they "settled" down and accepted their FATE/Genes and now, try to control their lifestyle so as not to make things worse, hopefully better, so to speak ....

[RGRaj]

GOOD QUESTION - answer - I don't know but I am sure many are bloody scared stiff of the GREAT UNKNOWN and BEYOND ....

Well, the answer is - because it's NOT natural. The "I" actually doesn't dies. That's why "it" feels very afraid of death, because "it" gets a taste of death. So "it" continues to exist after death. Well, "it" was existing before birth itself.

The "I" and "it" I'm referring to is the soul, our unborn & everlasting real self. It is who we really are - eternal spirit souls. The so called I, we, you & us you see at the time of death is just "our" body.

This information is there in the 2nd chapter, verses 12-30 of the Bhagavad Gita. Here's a translation of the 20th verse of the same chapter.

BG 2:20 - For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain.

So "we" don't like the situation of death because as eternally existing living entities, "we" hanker for eternal life but made to taste death at the time of death.

[tupai]

wow! without prejudice, this here is very 'chim' philosoppi lah...*tabik spring*

It takes 1 with strong conviction and faith to fully understand the now & beyond...a kinda lawyer speak goobledygook in many instances too..:p

me cut it simply...Death is death, regardless of which way it came. Just hope it aint painful, quick and no hassles for the living...:cool: Firm believer of dont jump Q either, esp THAT vvv important Q!:D

p/s read somewhere a 'soul' weigh only 0.044gm or something liddat. Yup, they did a pre & post-departure weigh-in like fighters b4 a boxing match:p

Yang Ada BerLivin' it up now TIU xlatotupai:D

[RGRaj]

me cut it simply...Death is death, regardless of which way it came.

A simple definition of death,

BG 2:13 - As the embodied soul continuously passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. A self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change.

because,

BG 2:18 - Only the material body of the indestructible, immeasurable and eternal living entity is subject to destruction; therefore, fight, O descendant of Bharata.

and after death,

BG 2;22 - As a person puts on new garments, giving up old ones, similarly, the soul accepts new material bodies, giving up the old and useless ones.

Of course you don't get to see these happenings because the atomic soul is too small to be comprehended by our insufficient sense of sight. By the way what is chim?

[kwchang]

... the FACT that when diagnosed, the reason given was "it is in the genes"....
This report based on the "genes" point me to the reference to "genetic markers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_marker)"

This technology involves finding gene codes in our cells which have been identified to be related to risks in developing ailments including cancers for the patient concerned. Studies have implied that some gene codes in a person's cells are related to higher risks in developing specific health conditions.

The science of gene markers is not something new. I had a classmate who was working on genetic markers in the local IMR as long as 30 years ago. This technology is not well publicised. One reason is that as in all scientific observations, it may not accurately identify risks of a person actually being able to be afflicted with a specific disease- thismeans to say you may be diagnosed as having a specific genetic marker but it does not necessarily mean the doctors will be certain you will get the related disease in future.

However, knowing your genetic marker profile can be useful. For example someone could have a genetic marker for breast cancer. If this is known early, that person could take measures to check herself for signs of breast cancer such as going for mammograms or do self-inspections regularly. The benefit of this is that the patient at risk can detect early stages of the disease and seek appropriate treatment before it becomes a dangerous tumour.Breast cancer for example is very easily treated and cured if detected early.

The bad part of genetic marker technology is the possibility that some people could use this to frighten the patient and coerce the patient to agree to expensive therapeutic services which are unnecessary. Hence this could lead to scams for people who are not knowledgeable and get conned with an impending doom which may not even develop.

Services that make use of genetic markers should have proper and competent counseling services which is important to advise the patient and help the patient understand the results of the findings in a professional manner.

In times of doubt, go for a second opinion.

[zinglicious]

It would be a scary nightmare if you are immortal while seeing one by one the disappearance of your friends and love ones. :eek:

Permanance sometimes can be a curse instead of a blessing. ;)

If we have live life to the fullest and making a mark to make a difference , we can leave this world with a smile and the smiles of others when we are gone. :)

[marc0]

...........

p/s read somewhere a 'soul' weigh only 0.044gm or something liddat. Yup, they did a pre & post-departure weigh-in like fighters b4 a boxing match:p

Yang Ada BerLivin' it up now TIU xlatotupai:D

I thought that 'soul's weight' has already been disproved. It is the weight of the air expelled upon expiration. Not that the soul has any weight.

[RGRaj]

If we have live life to the fullest and making a mark to make a difference , we can leave this world with a smile and the smiles of others when we are gone. :)

Not so easy. You might be able to fulfill your greatest potential in life, but you will still be unable to face the great end, even at a ripe old age. It is that traumatizing.

Besides, not all of us gets to live to the fullest, if you mean that as old age.

[zinglicious]

Those who have been funerals might have noticed the difference of those died a violent death and those who died from peaceful death.

IMHO, those who left this world without worries i.e. responsibilities done, no major sin from being a corrupt person, no vengenance, strong belief in values in mankind or God. they are more likely to have a mark of "smiles" on thier faces.

It is like Permanance in Buddishm concept - If you have great attachment say the brand new BMW - you would feel bad if you lose it. Imagine driving a Proton Wira as a result. But if you are being given the latest series of Ferrari for the loss of BMW, you would gladly accept it with a smile. :)

[kwchang]

This thread has deviated from the original topic

[tupai]

This thread has deviated from the original topic

.ANd i would deadpan it as such..." its a deadly serious infringement of rules.":cool:


Yang Amat Breathing TIU xlatotupai:p

p/s Zing, stop your fatalistic postings! You certainly cannot immortalise the dead! Its a mortal sin against the very nature of living! Crazy dude to comparing living Buddhism to a deadbeat Bmw! The openly thing deadly similar is the alphabet 'B'lah. In school, the teach would say "You are so dead!":cool:

[zinglicious]

Kenot be dead serious!

Psst....What I am trying to say Life to death is not so scary lah or about Buddhism. ( heck , I dont even know which religion I am affilated to. For some before diving into world trade center, the hijackers knowingly thier ultimate dreams, they shouted in glee " here comes my seventy virgins as a gift from Almighty for my deed.

[RGRaj]

Psst....What I am trying to say Life to death is not so scary lah or about Buddhism. ( heck , I dont even know which religion I am affilated to. For some before diving into world trade center, the hijackers knowingly thier ultimate dreams, they shouted in glee " here comes my seventy virgins as a gift from Almighty for my deed.[/SIZE]

We wouldn't really know, because the dead don't come back to warn us, do they?

[USJ27Resident]

Everyone dies... so ?

Its about living your life to the fullest... doing what you "think" is the "right" thing to to do... and to make your life worthy of the time you've managed to spend with loved ones and close ones... what is the point to work so hard, just to get or gain everything that you "want" and then die before you can enjoy the fruits of your hardwork?

I work in an enviroment that I can "go" literally in a BIG BANG... and if it is fated, it will happen.... or mebbe when I cross the road, getting whacked by a bus or a bicycle... or mebbe even getting whacked by Tupai's big bike... just because I was staring at Zing's skinny hairy legs instead of the road... :p

Better go watch the "Final Destination" movies and get the sense of how mortal we are or can be... :p

ps: Wonder if the lady with the BIG HAIR knows how mortal she is too.... I'd be damn, if she thinks she immortal!!! :eek::D


Kenot be dead serious!
Psst....What I am trying to say Life to death is not so scary lah or about Buddhism. ( heck , I dont even know which religion I am affilated to. For some before diving into world trade center, the hijackers knowingly thier ultimate dreams, they shouted in glee " here comes my seventy virgins as a gift from Almighty for my deed

Pss! what if the 70 virgins are NOT FEMALE virgins? KIHKIHKIH!!!

[Dervish]

70?

I think it's only 40! :D

[RGRaj]

Its about living your life to the fullest... doing what you "think" is the "right" thing to to do... and to make your life worthy of the time you've managed to spend with loved ones and close ones... what is the point to work so hard, just to get or gain everything that you "want" and then die before you can enjoy the fruits of your hardwork?

Is this the ultimate aim of human existence?

Is there something more to our temporary existence?

Why are we really here for?

[zinglicious]

To have a good time in usj.com?:D

Pss! what if the 70 virgins are NOT FEMALE virgins? KIHKIHKIH!!!
Good Point! :eek: But then it could be Virgin Pina Colada which is just a healthy fruit drink.