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View Full Version : The game behind PMR Chinese paper



Jennylim
05-01-2012, 03:37 PM
One student was very keen to find out why he didn't get A for Chinese paper for last year's PMR, so he went around to find out what marks is needed to get an A. he found out there is one guy with half of his objective questions wrong but got A, there's another guy with only a few objectives question wrong got B, as he asked more, he saw a pattern, many of those got A for Chinese have at least 1 of his/her other subjects didn't get A, those who got all other subjects As would likely to have B for Chinese though in school several(he does not know about the rest) of them got A in Chinese language.

If the pattern is true, then there will be less ex-SJKC students got straight As, indirectly show that SK students are 'better'!

I know those who normally got A for Chinese language will be extremely upset knowing that those who never got A before got an A in Chinese in PMR, they will be also extremely upset because in school, they were better than those PMR straight As students but now these students treated like stars in school, put into better class and assigned better teachers.

Knowing the pattern help this guy ease the pain, he knew now that he is not that bad but the system is.

currymee
05-01-2012, 03:42 PM
Wow, that is a very strong and serious finding .... :eek:

Rhiga
05-01-2012, 04:04 PM
No need to search around, my exam results explained it well.

I obtained A in all subjects except Chinese in SRP (1983) and SPM (1985).

I scored A1 in SRP’s BM and A2 in SPM’s BM.

However, I am 100% sure I have better command in Chinese than BM albeit this was not reflected by the exam result.

burntan
05-01-2012, 04:21 PM
But how do you explain I score all A in my SRP(1983) including Chinese? Wow, same year!

I don't know about PMR now, may be there is really some conspiracy there, but I think it is unlikely.

Jennylim
05-01-2012, 04:26 PM
Rhiga, I know what u r saying, because of that many people give up Chinese.
This time around, the game is different, in the newspaper, it says more than 17% PMR Chinese language candidates got A for Chinese. So, MCA can't complain about only small percentage of candidate allow to get A in Chinese. The thing is many of those really good ones still can't get straight As even though they may deserved such result.

cml
05-01-2012, 04:27 PM
Are you sure you two fellas are not brothers? same year some more:p

aursong
05-01-2012, 06:45 PM
All the paper is being mark differently...

If there's such a scandal in place... wouldn't you think is easier to degrade the student of his/her other subjects to deny em straight As? Why only pick on Chinese paper...

"They" can simply degrade SRJK students BM/Eng (those that take Chinese paper) and show SK students are better in BM/Eng then SRJK students...

simply... :confused:

ivanhow
05-01-2012, 08:35 PM
All this... sounds like some kinda conspirasi...:eek:

Rhiga
06-01-2012, 08:20 AM
All the paper is being mark differently...
How do you know it is being mark differently ??

If there's such a scandal in place... wouldn't you think is easier to degrade the student of his/her other subjects to deny em straight As? Why only pick on Chinese paper...
Chinese paper is a good pick because it kills three birds with one stone - 1) lower the A in Chinese paper thus discourage students to take Chinese paper, 2) lower the straight A students in the neglected lot, 3) because of (2), it relatively increase the percentage of the staright A students in the blessed lot.

"They" can simply degrade SRJK students BM/Eng (those that take Chinese paper) and show SK students are better in BM/Eng then SRJK students...
Not a good choice because this will reduce the overall standard in BM and BI. They want to project the present educational policy manage to produce overall good standard in BM and BI..

cml
06-01-2012, 08:42 AM
To me all these results have been engineered to prove their point. And their point is to try to convince those who choose to sit for their 'mother tongue' paper that it is not a good idea after all and theirs is the best in the world which even they would not send their own children to!!

burntan
06-01-2012, 08:45 AM
To me, all this is just baseless conspiracy theory that some choose to believe in.

aursong
06-01-2012, 09:10 AM
How do you know it is being mark differently ??
Based on common sense... if not... you think all student 8~9 subject is being mark/group together at same time and compare the score and then decide whether to score A's on each of the subjects???? :confused:

Chinese paper is a good pick because it kills three birds with one stone - 1) lower the A in Chinese paper thus discourage students to take Chinese paper, 2) lower the straight A students in the neglected lot, 3) because of (2), it relatively increase the percentage of the staright A students in the blessed lot.
PMR Chinese paper is not optional subject for SRJK students...

Not a good choice because this will reduce the overall standard in BM and BI. They want to project the present educational policy manage to produce overall good standard in BM and BI..
Based on the conspiracy theory presented... "they" will know whether the students come from SRK or SRJK... then why not degrade all SRJK's students Eng/BM but updgrade SRK's students grades and statistic will show... SRK's students hav better standard...

Rhiga
06-01-2012, 09:22 AM
How do you know it is being mark differently ??
Based on common sense... if not... you think all student 8~9 subject is being mark/group together at same time and compare the score and then decide whether to score A's on each of the subjects???? :confused:

---> I don't know, and I won't use common sense to answer a difficult question.


Chinese paper is a good pick because it kills three birds with one stone - 1) lower the A in Chinese paper thus discourage students to take Chinese paper, 2) lower the straight A students in the neglected lot, 3) because of (2), it relatively increase the percentage of the staright A students in the blessed lot.
PMR Chinese paper is not optional subject for SRJK students...

---> It was optional during my time(SRP).. and it is still a good pick for reasons (2) and (3) that I mentioned


Not a good choice because this will reduce the overall standard in BM and BI. They want to project the present educational policy manage to produce overall good standard in BM and BI..
Based on the conspiracy theory presented... "they" will know whether the students come from SRK or SRJK... then why not degrade all SRJK's students Eng/BM but updgrade SRK's students grades and statistic will show... SRK's students hav better standard...[/QUOTE]

---> You don't get the point... I am referring to overall standard, not selective SRK or SRJK.

aursong
06-01-2012, 09:55 AM
---> You don't get the point... I am referring to overall standard, not selective SRK or SRJK.

I agree with "they" make it harder to get an A in Chinese paper as overall standard... but not the conspiracy theory that "they" upgrade/degrade students Chinese paper based on whether the students is scoring straight A's or not...

DarkNite
06-01-2012, 10:50 AM
All the paper is being mark differently...
How do you know it is being mark differently ??
If it is a subjective paper then for sure there will be a difference in marking.
Some common factors are:-
1. Difference marking center have different marking stds.
2. depends on the skill/level of competency of the subject/integrity of marker.
3. mood of marker
4. sitting arrangement of candidate, example after marking a series of good script and the next script is so so there is a tendency to mark it even lower.
and likewise a series of bad script and subsequently a ok script, that ok script will be make higher.

The above is only at the marking side. Once the marks are enter into the computer data based it is further MANIPULATE.

burntan
06-01-2012, 10:51 AM
---> You don't get the point... I am referring to overall standard, not selective SRK or SRJK.

I agree with "they" make it harder to get an A in Chinese paper as overall standard... but not the conspiracy theory that "they" upgrade/degrade students Chinese paper based on whether the students is scoring straight A's or not...

Yeah, to do that it is huge project involve a lot of works and I seriously doubt that our "efficient" public service capable to handle it.

wongjie90
06-01-2012, 12:26 PM
If it is a subjective paper then for sure there will be a difference in marking.
Some common factors are:-
1. Difference marking center have different marking stds.
2. depends on the skill/level of competency of the subject/integrity of marker.
3. mood of marker
4. sitting arrangement of candidate, example after marking a series of good script and the next script is so so there is a tendency to mark it even lower.
and likewise a series of bad script and subsequently a ok script, that ok script will be make higher.

The above is only at the marking side. Once the marks are enter into the computer data based it is further MANIPULATE.
I strongly agreed on your points of view. In my year of BM paper, a lot of my classmate failed ( including a few top students in class ) and reseat for one year, they all get credit ( good credit ) in next year BM paper. Different examiner have different marking standard and some will straight follow the marking paper given and no negotiation at all eventhough the answer might in the " grey " area but some will let go. As for Chinese paper, you have to write essay and it depend on which subject you write, for example title like " Advantage & disadvantage of Science today " and " the best teacher in my life " are 2 different type of essay & the first one you have to provide a lot of proofs and arguments but the 2nd one is depend on your skill on how you put your words to touch the examiner. Further more, there are a lot of similarity of chinese words and a lot of stroke in a word, once you miss it, the grammer might be totally wrong. The other problem might be you have putting a footsto or comma at a wrong place , for example : 种花种种种种种种种得种种香 mignt have a different meaning if you put the comma at different point. 1.种花种,种种种,种种种得种种香 2.种花,种种种,种种种,种得种种香 or 种花种种种,种种种,种得种种香.

Jennylim
06-01-2012, 02:36 PM
Yeah, to do that it is huge project involve a lot of works and I seriously doubt that our "efficient" public service capable to handle it.

I was just saying that people saw that pattern, whether there is such a ‘policy’, only last year’s PMR students can confirm that.

However, if I m saying if the big or little nepolean want to do that, it is a kacang putih task. Don't need to involve markers, or decide how paper is marked. Don't need efficiency, all you need is a less than 2 pages programme code. If the data structure is well designed and programme language is powerful you don't even need a page.

burntan
06-01-2012, 02:45 PM
I was just saying that people saw that pattern, whether there is such a ‘policy’, only last year’s PMR students can confirm that.

However, if I m saying if the big or little nepolean want to do that, it is a kacang putih task. Don't need to involve markers, or decide how paper is marked. Don't need efficiency, all you need is a less than 2 pages programme code. If the data structure is well designed and programme language is powerful you don't even need a page.

You mean changing their scoring after entering in to computer? I know that marking paper are done by some selected school teachers, the score will then collected to input to computer database and later print result. You mean there is a possibility that the marking teacher give an A but the computer later change it to B? Hmm...then this is possible. But are you sure there is no straight As student who take chinese paper as well?

Jennylim
06-01-2012, 03:04 PM
Got! May be the top few(2, 3 or 4?) % in Chinese marks. So, u still see extremely good ones got A.

One day I was in the school I overheard 1 Chinese language teacher commented to a student, "u didn't get A? even X also can get A!"

aursong
06-01-2012, 04:20 PM
I was just saying that people saw that pattern, whether there is such a ‘policy’, only last year’s PMR students can confirm that.

However, if I m saying if the big or little nepolean want to do that, it is a kacang putih task. Don't need to involve markers, or decide how paper is marked. Don't need efficiency, all you need is a less than 2 pages programme code. If the data structure is well designed and programme language is powerful you don't even need a page.

You are saying there's a pattern and is already being done... no if anymore... why stop at Chinese Paper only? Why not Maths... just degrade most SRJK students Maths that score straight A's and updgrade SRK students grade?

they can manipulate into having more SRK students scoring straight A's compare to SRJK students regradless of Chinese Paper...

fail conspiracy theory???
simply... :confused:

burntan
06-01-2012, 05:08 PM
You are saying there's a pattern and is already being done... no if anymore... why stop at Chinese Paper only? Why not Maths... just degrade most SRJK students Maths that score straight A's and updgrade SRK students grade?

they can manipulate into having more SRK students scoring straight A's compare to SRJK students regradless of Chinese Paper...

fail conspiracy theory???
simply... :confused:

Language paper is easier to manipulate as the score for essay is subjective hard to argue, compare to math is fix, some student know they can score perfect mark just when they finished the paper.

Anyway, I don't like conspiracy theory, because we can never proof it at the end.

aursong
06-01-2012, 05:18 PM
Language paper is easier to manipulate as the score for essay is subjective hard to argue, compare to math is fix, some student know they can score perfect mark just when they finished the paper.

Anyway, I don't like conspiracy theory, because we can never proof it at the end.

Based on the original post... is being done on the objective question and a pattern have being developed... so why not Maths then???

If want to establish conspiracy theory... at least be more logical and come out with more meaningful facts/creditable rumors...