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View Full Version : Did Khir Toyo go wrong on sex and vice?



jeffooi
04-04-2003, 09:34 AM
BERNAMA.COM
April 03 , 2003 21:06PM

<FONT SIZE="+1">60% Prostitutes In The Country Are Malays - Police</FONT>
By Shahrullizan Rusli

KUALA LUMPUR, April 3 (Bernama) -- Malay women and girls as young as 15 are going for prostitution, many with the intention to make big bucks, according to the police.

Kuala Lumpur Police Statistics show that 60 per cent of the prostitutes are Malays, 30 per cent Chinese, 8 per cent others and two per cent Indians.

Head of the Police Gambling, Vice and Secret Society Division Supt Mohd Fawzy Arshad said that last year 28 Malay underage girls were held for being involved in prostitution.

"Pressure of city life has caused many to choose the easy way out," he told Bernama in an interview.

The youngest prostitute detained last year was a 15-year-old Malay girl while the oldest was a Chinese woman in her late 40s.

Police mounted anti vice operations nearly every night last year in places such as massage parlours, night clubs, hair dressing salons, discos, public parks, hotels and private houses.

In all 1,810 raids were carried out last year and police netted 1,334 prostitutes.

Of these prostitutes 486 were from China, 409 from Indonesia, 252 from Thailand, 48 from Uzbekistan, 41 from North India, 35 from the Philippines, 34 from Vietnam, four from Cambodia, five from Russia, one from Myanmar while the rest were Malaysian prostitutes.

In January and February of this year, police mounted 299 raids and nabbed 200 prostitutes.

Assistant Enforcement Director, KL Federal Territory Islamic Affairs Department,Nik Azlan Nik Man said Malay prostitutes operating in Kuala Lumpur were aged between 17 and 50.

He agreed with the police that pressures of city life had caused women to become weak in their faith.

"There are those who are after materialism, while others go for the fun of it and some are unable to control their sexual urge," said Nik Azlan at his office at the Islamic Centre here.

Syariah criminal cases involving prostitution increased from seven in 2000 to 42 last year.

In the course of a Bernama check in Bukit Bintang, Chow Kit and Brickfields here, there was a Malay prostitute aged about 30 who wanted to be known just as Nora.

"I first became spoilt (mula rosak) after being romantically attached to a boy. We lived together for two years and then I left him," she said.

Nora said then she shared a room with another girl in Brickfields and every night they both watched porn video and became influenced by the actions.

The prostitution activities were carried at night and she was not under any pimp and according to her, most of the Malay prostitutes had willingly joined the flesh trade.

Nora also disclosed that most of her prostitute-friends had married, mostly to their former customers.

Nora said as she had pretty features, she was able to earn up to RM10,000 a month.

-- BERNAMA


SOURCE:
http://www.bernama.com/B2002v2/news.shtml?general/ge0304_20

empress_julz
04-04-2003, 09:52 AM
Assistant Enforcement Director, KL Federal Territory Islamic Affairs Department,Nik Azlan Nik Man said Malay prostitutes operating in Kuala Lumpur were aged between 17 and 50.

He agreed with the police that pressures of city life had caused women to become weak in their faith.

i don't think it has anything to do with that..... this is another one of those 'excuse' type responses that nobody appreciates.

i think these women are just weak character wise, don't care enough to get an education and earn bit by bit working their way out. my father refers to these people as "those who are looking for an easy way out in life".

so many of us women live in the city, i've been living on my own since i was 18... but why don't we go into it? character.

the city has never been a pressurising place. it's the individual's attitude that is.

///Ej

uchangeng
05-04-2003, 11:34 PM
Man is what he is not!

There is some truth in this. While many would easily dance to the tune of how bad and how immoral prosititution is, yet, prositution continues to flourish, almost recession proof! Does anybody out there care to ask why?

Back in the 70s, my agricultural science teacher once taught me that man is one being that remains sexually active all seasons. Unlike animals, man is year round sex-active. This is why, a man would invariably think of sex once in every 5 minutes! Therefore, in a sex-close society like Malaysia, prositution is a way out for many.

I hope our educationists start thinking about sex education for our teens. I had mine when I was in my form six years back in my school days in Melbourne. It was a good experience and students were thought the danger of teen pregnancy and the peril of sexually tranmitted dieseases. Then in 1983, AIDS became rampant, I was glad I learned my lesson early enough.

jeffooi
06-04-2003, 01:35 PM
SUNDAY TIMES Singapore
Sunday, April 6, 2003

CORRESPONDENT'S NOTEBOOK
<font size="+1">Brothel raider gets fan mail</font>
By Brendan Pereira


OF THE countless ideas that Datuk Seri Mohamed Khir Toyo has thrown up during his three years as the chief minister of Malaysia's richest state, <u>few have lasted long</u>.

<u>They have either been dumped, verbally battered, allowed to fade from memory like a bad marriage, satirised or all of the above</u>. Only his almost messianic devotion to closing down illegal massage parlours and prostitution joints in Selangor has endured - and won him universal acclaim from constituents and political opponents.

His prized trophy is the 60 to 100 e-mail he receives daily, most of them sent by housewives, professional women and even college students.

They are grateful that someone is taking on the leggy and oh-so charming women from China, Uzbekistan, Indonesia, Philippines and Thailand who are keeping their husbands or boyfriends away from them at nights.

(snipped)

He reads the fan mail religiously. It is the fuel that makes him keep owl-like hours and drives him to lead raids across the state on bars and karaoke lounges that double up as brothels.

<u>His learning curve has been sharp</u>. During a recent interview, he sounded like a vice cop as he described the secrecy of the operations. There is the casing of the target of the raid by himself and a clutch of his trusted officers. The local authorities and police officers are called in only after confirming that more than beer is being served on the premises.

...Datuk Mohamed Khir chuckled when he recalled some of his conversations with brothel owners. 'Some of them tell me that their place is protected by certain people. But when they see me leading the raid, they know that there is no compromise and no deals.'

...Men who visit the unlicensed massage parlours are taken away to the nearest police station for drug testing.

In future, the particulars of married men caught with prostitutes will be sent to their families.

...Some people have likened his campaign to reduce prostitution in Selangor to throwing pebbles at the moon.

Close to 2,000 foreign prostitutes were arrested last year, but the authorities concede that the figure is a gross distortion of the situation on the ground.

Datuk Mohamed Khir knows how pervasive the syndicates have become. He recently received a detailed report on the hotels, bars and karaoke lounges where sex was served.

The unsolicited report came complete with numbing facts and figures - the number of prostitutes available, the profile of the clientele and the background of the brothel owners.

Some of the best known hotels were on the list.

But little surprises the chief minister these days - not the various attempts to persuade him to stop the campaign; not the posse of thugs who have been known to trail him; and definitely not the reactions of the men who get caught with their pants down.

His particular favourite: the Indian man who pleaded for a 10-minute moratorium against arrest for his prostitute, a Chinese national.

'He said that he had paid her RM280 and could not control himself. He had to do it,' said the chief minister, showing a wisp of doubt about whether he had done the right thing.

The man got his way - and a lecture that lasted much longer than his 10 minutes of fun.


(Brendan Pereira is the Straits Times Malaysia Correspondent.)


SOURCE:
http://www.straitstimes.com.sg/commentary/story/0,4386,181556,00.html?

empress_julz
06-04-2003, 02:24 PM
i do think that ppl who believe prostitution can be eradicated in entirety are foolhardy.

and i despise the fact that they make the women look as though they want to be prostitutes. the great majority of them are victims of economic circumstances, most don't have much of an education or any skills to shout about. who is to blame for that?

i am a woman but i'm all for legal prostitution. that way you're sure that only the read die hard fans go for it. and when they do, there are adequate health precautions. for one, AIDS and other STDs are too big to ignore. these things you can't control without legalising prostitution.

///ej

emybaba
06-04-2003, 09:11 PM
Hmm... I thought we'd already dismissed our dearly beloved chief minister as a lost cause and yet he's still a hot topic.

Hmmm... he must be doing something right. Doesn't it make you go hmmmm....

A couple of years ago, I had the pleasure of visiting Stockholm. On the day I arrived, I discovered that on that very day itself they had implemented the law that soliciting was illegal and a chargeable offense. At first I thought that they had done it just for me, and was flattered.

But really people, I think it's bloody fair that both sides share the blame. In fact, we should advertise them on TV - "Mr. So & So was caught at the brothel early yesterday morning. When asked, he declined to elaborate whether he was finished or about to begin and claims he has no memory where he had left his underpants. He is now happily reunited with his wife of 6 years and two children. Mrs. So & So was full of praise for our beloved chief minister who was alert enough in spotting Mr. So & So's underwear hidden among the prostitutes nabbed. This is Johnny Quek reporting from NTV7!". Think of how enlightening it would be for men and women for their moment of fame and think how excellent Khir will look on TV. He'll have to hire a full crew just to read his fan mail.

:D

empress_julz
07-04-2003, 03:34 AM
i agree with you. it's not fair that only the women (who are probably victimised) get it... and the guys get off the hook, scott free.

i think you're right.... they should publish in the papers the pictures, names and IC numbers of the men who get caught with the prostitutes.

and please don't forget all those mistresses tucked away at mont kiara. why hasn't khir toyo busted them yet?

///ej

jeffooi
23-04-2003, 11:16 AM
STRAITS TIMES Singapore
Wednesday, April 23, 2003

<FONT SIZE="+1">Too many pubs shut down, MCA complains</FONT>

<IMG SRC="http://www.straitstimes.com.sg/mnt/media/image/launched/2003-04-23/a7.JPG" ALIGN="LEFT" VSPACE="8" HSPACE="8"><FONT SIZE="1">Women were rounded up and bars closed down in a recent raid led by the Selangor Mentri Besar (right), who has been criticised by some for going overboard with the crackdown. -- THE STAR/ ASIA NEWS NETWORK</FONT>


KUALA LUMPUR - The Malaysian Chinese Association (MCA) has complained that Selangor Mentri Besar Mohamed Khir Toyo has been overzealous in closing licensed pubs, including decent joints, leaving casual drinkers with no outlets to go to.

The MCA, which is a senior member of the ruling Barisan Nasional, wants the state government to review its decision and allow pubs frequented by casual drinkers to open again.

The Selangor MCA chief, Datuk Donald Lim, said that the party would meet the Mentri Besar on the matter and discuss the new ruling that limits the number of pubs allowed to be located in a district. -- New Straits Times


SOURCE:
http://www.straitstimes.com.sg/asia/story/0,4386,184810,00.html?

brown
23-04-2003, 05:01 PM
I have been following this thread and I believe the opinions expressed here are personal.

What is the CM's purpose of stirring up this brothel issue? Maybe he needs new publicity. I agree with Brendan Pereira.

Can vice such as prostitution eradicated totally? I doubt it. It is all about the principle of supply and demand.

If there is a demand and supply for shag for hire, men will buy it, women will sell it. I have not cover the case where women buy men for a shag. Will the CM deal with this one? **chuckle**

Whatever the CM try to do with this bust-the-brothel crusade, any sane person will bet it is impossible.

Well, good luck, CM. He is just trying to eradicate a business which had flourish since human being knows that anything to do with the human intimate parts can make money.

By the way, how much had the State spent on this operation??? I sure did not pay my tax to allow the government to bust brothels/pubs/hotels/saunas/saloons/massage parlours etc.

empress_julz
23-04-2003, 09:01 PM
i think he must have some issues in his head.

if he was doing this in iran, yeah way to go. but don't we need to worry about so many more important things that go around selangor?

ask him to go round up the rotting garbage he sees strewn by roadsides. if he does something like that i'll say he's dedicated to his work. if not, he should just take his extremist views and pack up.

what a stupid waste of taxpayer's money. give him his salary so he can waste our time behaving like a cowboy.

///ej

Joecool
29-04-2003, 11:12 AM
While the intention is good, the approach appears to be wrong. He is going only after the tail-end of the supply chain. Why not go after the source? The filthy rich tycoon who remain behind the scene but everyone in the Bukit Aman are aware of who they are. Why go after the small fries when the big fish merely have to reimport what gets repatriated? The girls especially those who come from overseas normally pay their own way to get here. They pay another fee to get protection or right to work. And these are the people that the raids are going after. Should go to some of the bungalows where the masterminds are staying and harass them or is it because some of them have been conferred a title?

empress_julz
29-04-2003, 11:20 AM
i'll tell you why Joecool.... so they look like they're trying to eradicate the problem. but i think the public outrage should prove enough to them that we're not as stupid as they think.

///Ej

Joecool
29-04-2003, 12:53 PM
Yes. You are right and I am not ashamed to admit it. The number of vice joints are mushrooming and some have even encroached into the Subang Jaya area from what I heard in the SS 15,SS 17 areas. Obviously the SARS scare is not slowing down business.

empress_julz
29-04-2003, 12:55 PM
when my bf (who is italian) was down in malaysia with me a few months ago, we went to bangsar. he was walking a little further in front from me, and was approached by a bar manager at illussions, who asked him whether he wanted a prostitute. "do you want girl?" was what he said.

sure, offer the prostitutes to the foreigners and the datuks and catch the small fry.

///Ej

Joecool
29-04-2003, 01:06 PM
unfortunately they don't discriminate between foreigners and Malaysian. Trying walking down Bukit Bintang road at about 8:30 PM to 11:00 PM alone and if you are a male, you would get someone whispering to you on whether you want a good time. This cannot be good for the "Bintang Walk" can it? or perhaps maybe I am not so well informed that this may be the star attraction.

tupai
29-04-2003, 02:08 PM
Please DO NOT simply spread the allegations..SS15, SS17 etc..If u know where the EXACT spot is, post the address here and I wil go personally to check it out...I am a curious cat in ss17. Its a 99.9%residential....1% is a commrcial stretch/loop facing the main road..so mana ada. Curios lah..
If u said hankypanky at the health club/basement hotel H___Villa , then i beleiev lah. But its a sauna and health club;-)

curiously yours,
upai

empress_julz
29-04-2003, 10:23 PM
yeah tupai, i dont think it's true either. i've lived in subang all my life, i go out late hours sometimes, never seen a prostitute.

thelaw48, i totally agree with your point.

///Ej

Joecool
30-04-2003, 09:50 AM
you are right about SS 17. It is not SS 17 but SS 14. In one of the shop lots near Ravi's roti canai. I don't know where it is exactly but if you know where Ravi's is, you would have narrowed it down a fair bit. I am told that this is part of the "Dora Dora" chain that is in Puchong, Sunway, SS2, etc. I have yet to verify the SS15 one but the one in SS14 was visited by a friend of mine.

empress_julz
30-04-2003, 11:06 AM
wow, you have a friend who's had to pay for sex... i personally don't know anyone, to me this is a fictitious world.

sadly for a lot of ppl out there, it's a way of making a living.

///Ej

pcyeoh
30-04-2003, 06:10 PM
Hey Joecool, I hope you are not refering to me, your new found friend when you said one of your friends visited this joint. Are you sure it is "Dora Dora and not Tora Tora. The Ravi you are talking about must be the old one called Canai and Such at the dead end where there is a overhead bridge across the Kesas Highway. When you go to check it out, let me know. Don't reveal here too much or else Toyo will spoil our fun. As for payment for sex, nothing comes free anymore unless you have the tongue of a lizard. Oh before I go off, I better clarify that I am not an advocate for this trade. I don't encourage it neither do I condemn it. People need to cari ayam.....er er I mean cari makan.

clarence
30-04-2003, 06:31 PM
Either cari ayam or curi makan, give than a change. One being satisfied receiving the money for services provided, the other one?, satisfied for having deposited in the rubber tube. Thus saving the innocent people or lady walking in our neighbour from being rape.

Loke
30-04-2003, 10:47 PM
It is interesting that the toyol keeps busting karaokes and entertainment centres but not health spas/clubs in hotels. May be these operators in the hotel pay well. Off hand I can tell list down at least 10 hotels but not here - takut nanti kena slap with a multi-million RM defamation law suit - ha! ha!

empress_julz
01-05-2003, 12:12 AM
i've hung out in ss14 ravi's canai and such from weird hours like 8pm till 8am .... always at night..... never seen a prostitute there.

so i don't know what this witch hunt is about, probably over nothing.

we all know those urban legends and stories about prostitutes here, prostitutes there, prostitutes lurking everywhere. ppl, post facts, not urban legends and stories, or what "this friend said she said he said" kind of things.

all of us have "friends" who've "done all sorts of things".

tupai said earlier:

has anybody actually seen the prostitutes purported to be in subang jaya?
Please DO NOT simply spread the allegations..SS15, SS17 etc..If u know where the EXACT spot is, post the address here and I wil go personally to check it out...I am a curious cat in ss17. Its a 99.9%residential....1% is a commrcial stretch/loop facing the main road..so mana ada.

the man speaks wisdom.

///EJ

jeffooi
01-05-2003, 12:46 PM
THE STAR
Tuesday, April 29, 2003

<FONT SIZE="+1">Hotels hire foreign prostitutes</FONT>

OPERATORS of some leading hotels are found to have hired foreign prostitutes to attract more businesses, said state Housing and Local Government Committee chairman Datuk Mokthar Dahalan.

Until April 24, Mokthar said 791 foreign women had been picked up from 203 premises.

He said they were from Thailand (125), China (265), Indonesia (276), Uzbekistan (10), Cambodia (22), Russia (two), Laos (one) and Vietnam (90).


FULL STORY:
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2003/4/29/parliament/klgvices&sec=parliament

Joecool
02-05-2003, 09:38 AM
PCYeoh : I don't intend to check it out. Anyway, I asked my friend again and this time he is saying he is not sure about SS 15. SS 14 is a definite thingy. And their mode of operation is the same as "Dora Dora" or "Tora Tora". Not sure of the spelling. Prostitutes have always been plying their trade in Subang Jaya for years. I remember someone once told me that you can sit down in the coffee shop of the then Merlin Hotel and ask a particular waiter for "room service". Then it became even more accessible via the Blue Apple health centre in the ever so convienient Holiday Villa. Must be a perk of the membership there! And of course the Topaz Health centre in the Summit Hotel being the next possible place to go. Regina KTV is yet another place to do your dastardly deed if you are in to the KTV scene. Funny but you will be surprised how many college students from the nearby colleges do their rounds in the evenings as a part timer. Must be the pressure of maintaining that latest mobile telephone, coffee with the group at coffee bean, payments to the car, etc.

Oh yes, ever since I learned how to ignore certain postings I find that I am able to say what I want to say freely.

Clarence : I am not sure if having prostitutes available will save our daughters or lady friends from being raped. But some do share that feeling. Maybe it will save some people from commiting incest? Well, don't get me started on that topic.

Loke : I don't think our Toyol keeps his hands off hotels. Maybe the 4-5 star hotels. He has been raiding after all Grade Hotel, Romeo Inn, etc. I would love to see a raid on Blue Apple, etc. the same way the KL vice squads raided Deluxe Health Centre in Federal Hotel in Bukit Bintang.

Tupai : Blue Apple in Holiday Villa is more than just a sauna or health centre. Same as all the health centres that seems to be mushrooming around PJ - Armada, Crystal Crown, PJ De Inn, Lisa De Inn, etc. Pan Pacific Glenmarie used to have one until one day the someone in power decided that all the "patrol cars" hanging out in the parking lot with the wares is not good for his image when he goes there for dinner with his golf buddies.

empress_julz
03-05-2003, 06:47 PM
The conditions for polygamy have become tighter in Selangor under revised Islamic family laws which impose additional layers of procedures for Muslim men. _

Among other things, a Muslim man who wants to take a new wife must appear before the syariah court with his wife or wives, his future wife and the wali (male guardian of the future wife), said Mentri Besar Datuk Seri Dr Mohd Khir Toyo._

Under Clause 23 (10) of the amended Islamic Family Law, a syariah judge is empowered to impose stricter conditions when hearing applications for polygamy._

?The court will hear the opinions of all parties and ask the applicant to show proof of his ability to be fair to his wives._

?The court will then decide whether to allow or reject the application,? said Dr Khir after attending a motivational course organised by the Special Affairs Department of the Information Ministry with Wanita Umno yesterday._

He said the new Muslim family laws would be made effective soon, ?maybe in two weeks? time after the Selangor Sultan gives his consent.?_

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2003/5/3/nation/klgpolyga&sec=nation

ginaphan
04-05-2003, 12:03 AM
Clarence, you said "Thus saving the innocent people or lady walking in our neighbour from being rape."

This is a wrong thing to say. Rape is not a crime of passion. Rapists do not rape because they have an uncontrollable urge to have sex. I won't digress into something unrelated with this thread but I felt that I need to address this point.

If you want to know more, there are many books you can read about the rapists and the crime of rape.

When these prostitutes are on the street, they are not doing going to deter rapist from victimising 'innocent people/ladies'. They may also be victimized and become a rapist target. They are not there to offer themselves as sacrifice.

Their lives are sad, very sad tales. They are not there to substitute for wives who are old and fat or rape victims.

I am strongly against prostitution - no compromise. But I do not look at prostitutes as non-human. It is very sad that the development of this great country as somehow forgotten them; forgotten to skill them for a more dignified and better way to make a living.

Clarence, I hope I have not offended you. I apologise if I have. If I have embarrased you in a public forum, I also say "Sorry' in the same public forum. I do not think you are wrong; just happened the way the phrase was worded was wrong (to me).

empress_julz
04-05-2003, 05:21 AM
ginaphan, thank you for pointing that discrepancy in the statement, i applaud you. i did not see it myself, but it is shocking that it took so many posts down before someone corrected that fallacy. as a woman i think it is grossly unfair to portray prostitutes as the appropriate victims of a rapist who wants to discharge his 'needs'. they are human beings and deserve better recognition.

rape in legal terms requires: non-consensual sexual intercourse (sexual intercourse being the penetration of the woman's vagina). previously only women could be raped, the law in england has extended this to men, though how is not exactly clear as the case law is limited. (malaysian law being the offspring of english law)

but you're right ginaphan, it is painful for anyone who is raped. i studied rape a while back in criminal law, and the cases are astonishing. not only do these women have to go through what they did, but the legal system's needs for scrutiny means that they'll have a difficult time proving the guilt as what is required is proof beyond reasonable doubt of the occurence. this means them having to repeat for the world the humiliating chain of events prior to, during, following the act, detailing what happened, etc. it is no wonder a lot of women choose not to pursue, the difficulties of the trial is daunting.

psychologically, the 'kick' that rapists get is from the fact that the sex is forced or non-consensual. while a lot of cases of rape evolve around date rape, for rapists who plan their moves and pick their victims, prostitutes will never fall into the equation - what these men want is the element of 'force' and 'pain' in the rape. paedophilic rapists are extreme manifestations of such people.

often they stalk their victims for weeks, following their patterns to find the perfect oppurtunity to spring. the buildup is half the 'fun' for them - going to a prostitute and paying the hourly rate does nothing for these ppl. rape is like a hunting game - half the fun is in the 'hunt'. can't expect these ppl to buy poultry off the supermarket shelf and feel happy 'they own a dead bird', to put it crudely.

while i would like to see the back of prostitution, i realise that jumping to that level is quite impossible. legislation is required to police and control prostitution, perhaps like what singapore has done - in order to ensure women do not get abused any further and gangs do not get the money from the proceeds of prostitution to do worse. strict policing also ensures the spread of disease such as AIDS can be halted dead in it's tracks with strict laws on cleanliness.

eitherway, khir toyo's dealing on the issue, rounding prostitutes up like dogs and mocking his 'catch' in the press is inhumane, whatever your stand on the issue i'm sure ppl can feel it. these women need to be helped, not humiliated any further.

tupai brought up a good question that has not been addressed. fellow subang jaya/usj citizens, has anybody seen a prostitute in our neighbourhood? as in, with your own two eyes?

///Ej

saml
04-05-2003, 09:32 AM
These type of things cannot be eradicated completely. It is there to provide an outlet for society. It can only be controlled and managed so that it does not get out of hand. Everyone knows who are running the joints. Once a while those places that are in need of renovations are 'raided' and the press happily reports of the authorities smashing up the place. Give it a bit of time and a new joint sprouts up in its place either at the same location or further down the road. Everyone is happy and life goes on. I am not condoning prostitution but I feel everyone has a choice. If they get aids as a result of their result, they deserve it. Politicians are there for the show and tell. To me they do not have an effective role in society, aside from enriching themselves.

empress_julz
04-05-2003, 09:48 AM
you are right on that one saml, about not being able to eradicate these things. anyone who's been seeing the number of years we've been taking to eradicate errant arcades and snooker centres knows what i mean.

whether politicians can play a role in society, i definitely think that they do and they should. whether they choose to or not is another thing.

so far, no takers on whether there are spottings of prostitutes in subang jaya. personally, i think it's just one of those things.

///Ej

saml
04-05-2003, 11:19 AM
Talking about arcades. A couple of years back when there was a big hoo hah about MPSJ going around closing arcades, i think the malay mail came out with the article where there was an arcade operating right at the door steps of the mpsj building in pj. Everytime these 'enforcement' go out on their raids they would have to come up from the basement carpark and the first building they saw would be this arcade and it had been running for months without any problems from mpsj. I think the policy was to close those that didn't meet their 'donation' guidelines. If they do, one can even operate at their door steps. If the enforcement was universal and punishment was severe, then i don't think anyone would do these things without fear. Just look at the Singaporeans, in their country they are very obedient, keeping to the speed limits, once they are in malaysian highways they drive like crazy knowing fully well that they do not get any demerit points and they can get away with just 50 ringgit or 25 bucks. Not all but a lot of them do it.

empress_julz
04-05-2003, 11:25 AM
mpsj building in pj? or do you mean mppj...

as for traffic, it's all to do with attitude. there are no speed limits on most of the auto bahns (highways) in germany. and germans are wonderfully consciencous, considerate drivers.

saml... speed in singapore you'll fall off the other side of the causeway! besides, it's so easy to fall into speed traps there. it's also much easier to police because they're roads are much shorter, less lanes than us.

///Ej

saml
04-05-2003, 02:02 PM
Sorry I meant mppj in state/old town. I was trying to put forth the point that in singapore if one is caught for speeding, beside the fine there is also the demerit system which if accumulated could have one's licence revoked and you can forget about bribing the police. You will get hauled to jail. We also have such laws in Malaysia but the enforcement and policing is a joke. How can a car accumulatre 30k worth of summonses and that person can actually negotiate for a lesser amount and get to drive back by himself without anything done to his driving licence.

empress_julz
04-05-2003, 02:09 PM
you got a point there.

i dont know bout what goes on on the police side, but i'm not happy with the kind of drivers we have on the streets. the sort of inconsiderate drivers, double parkers, traffic offenders we have are embarassing.

and you are right on the demerit system. i dont even know whether one is in place, and i've never heard any one whom i've seen speed express fear that they will have their licences confiscated or suspended.

i am especially for banning drivers who drink and drive permanently.

///Ej

saml
04-05-2003, 02:21 PM
These politicians are all the same. They will do or say anything to get attention. Wonder what happened to the son of the cm who slapped/assaulted a small time newscaster. It will be his most expensive slap. You see Bank Negara has this rule about people who control banks must be of good character. Now that his father is taking over the bank and he being the nominee, his appointment has to be approved by BNM. If he is charged in court it would make him not very suitable and it would not do to have anyone other than family to look after the family's interest. The father can't come out as he is still involved in politics. My guess is that this slap will cost him big and if the girl is well advised, go for it. I do not think that he will dare to take things further , the situation being as hot as it is and so visible. The problem with these people is that they think just because they are rich and powerful, they can get away with anything, in their own state, maybe.

sinleong
05-05-2003, 12:49 AM
by the way, which state r u referring to?

i wonder if any of us here have been to the karaoke bars, night clubs, pubs, health clubs etc which also doubles up as prostitute dens? if you haven't, i suggest u just go over there n take a look... just see....

after u see, then picture your daughter working there, or your husband or son visiting these places....

then think about what u r going to do or can do about it?

i don't necessarily agree with khir toyo's style of doing things. but at least he has the guts to do something about this menace. other people just talk... never do anything...

empress_julz
05-05-2003, 02:24 AM
sinleong, a lot has been done over the years. the joints just keep springing up like mushrooms.

gangs set them up, make a tonne of money from them, police find out , shut them down and arrest all the prostitutes.

gangs bring in more prostitutes, set another place up, make a tonne of money, police come in, shut it down again.

it's a vicious cycle.

and many of these syndicates are international ones, they bring in prostitutes and the locals who handle them aren't even the top guns.

even in 'corruptionless' countries like singapore, they realised that prostitution is one problem you cannot eradicate. their experience, as with the UK, netherlands, and many other countries out there should point to facts.

///Ej

Joecool
05-05-2003, 10:00 AM
I feel the only way out of this but unfortunately something that would be frowned upon by the international islamic community is to legalize prostitution like in Singapore. That way, prostitutes are protected by law, diseases are under control, and gangsters running these dens would be out of business. There are quite a few prostitutes out there that are willing victims and they have to pay for their "right" to prostitute themselves as most of the "safer" places are run by thugs. You don't see street walkers as much as you used to along Jalan Bukit Bintang because they have been harrassed too often and also they put themselves at risk whenever they are picked up by a john. Again, my opinion. only.

empress_julz
05-05-2003, 03:32 PM
yup, you're right on that one joecool.

one of the fundamental reasons why the netherlands wanted to legalise prostitution was to stop prostitutes coming in from eastern europe and the former USSR. these ppl had to pay a lot to gangs for protection, as well as for their transport over. many were harassed and abused, and as bait they hold their families hostage back at home.

another issue is child prostitution - how are we sure that all prostitutes are not minors?

only legislation can protect these women.

another point i mentioned in the past is protecting wives or girlfriends of men who frequent brothels or prostitutes. only with legislation can we ensure that they will not be the victims of AIDS or STDs.

i already know 3 people who had their partners cheat on them for prostitutes. the first was a singaporean girl, her boyfriend visited a prostitute in thailand and contracted AIDS, passed it on to her. she discovered this in a mandatory health test for a job she was vying for.

the second girl contracted STDs from her bf, who also visited a prostitute in thailand. she's malaysia and went to college with me. i took her to the doctor.

the third woman luckily, did not get anything - but she found out her bf saw two prostitutes.

we can never eradicate lust and desire - best legislate to ensure all are protected.

as for the islamic community, i'm wondering whether they can perhaps consider being as tolerant as they have been pertaining alcohol in kl, as well as tattoo parlours. both strictly forbidden in islam, but opened for the rest to enjoy.

///Ej