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View Full Version : Dont Tempt Car Break Ins !!



patrick
07-03-2003, 03:46 PM
I post an email just received from a friend. Her office is in Bandar Sunway. Her mail is produced copied below ad verbum:

"Something happened this afternoon.

A car parked in our office compound was broken into. A client came and went into our office, within minutes he heard an alarm, thinking that he had triggered it as the keys were in his pant pocket. Shortly, he got a call from the receptionist - someone's car parked outside was robbed. One of the neighbours saw a man runing off from our gate with a briefcase . There were 2 motorbikes waiting outside, one on the right and another on the left. The neigbour came to informed us of the incident. The front window pane next to the driver seat was smashed. He left his brief case next to the seat. By the way, our client just came from the MBB in SS15, Subang Jaya. The robbers looked like Chinese, the neighbour said they are Myamars. Therefore, be very careful when u go to any bank. He must have been followed all the way. The police came, they said there are many of these cases nowaday."

The morale of the story is NEVER, EVER leave anything in your car that may tempt break-ins. Even a simple item like an empty envelope can be a source of your problem. You know it's empty...but does the burglar know that?? Food for thought. Play it safe. Dont tempt the burglars.

Rgds,
Patrick

robertec
07-03-2003, 04:52 PM
Okay the incident happened just across from where my crockery shop and office is.

For sure he was followed from the Bank, cause the guys who broke into his car were watching from across the street for the right opportunity, from my warehouse outlet and from the warehouse next door.

One of my staff told me that he overheard them talking and that they sounded like they came from Kelantan. I doubt very much that they are Myamars lah. By the way, these guys were dressed very smartly not your ragtag bunch. (my staff thought that they were our customers)

One guy just walked coolly over to the car (which was parked inside the fenced compound) when the coast was clear and with "brass knucks" wrapped round his fingers, smashed the window pane, took out the case, jumped on the motorbike waiting and rode off with 2 other escort motorbikes following behind.

As I call it, it looked more like a well planned "robbery", than a car breakin.

Sure, don't leave tempting articles in your car, it's an open invitation.

If at all possible don't draw large sums of money under the watchful eyes of so called customers inside a crowded bank. These very "customers" could be planning to rob you off your withdrawls.

empress_julz
10-03-2003, 11:44 PM
my friend stopped at bangsar to take his family for dinner at the thai restaurant there.

they broke into the car and took his son's school bag!!! left the radio and everything.

poor kid had to redo all his work.

god knows what they were expecting, (maybe the bag to be full of money) but the moral of the story is not to tempt them with literally *anything*.

another friend of mine had his car broken into and all the little coins he had on the dashboard were taken. there couldn't have been more than RM 4 there. this was in pj.

another word of reminder... install a gear/ steering lock that's visible. if a thief has to choose, he'll go for the car without any precautionary devices.

joker2107
11-03-2003, 08:58 AM
this one involves one of the oldest rules of safekeeping ones valuables. don't dangle the carrot in front of the donkey. and also don't show the donkey where u re hiding the carrot. if u have to keep something in the boot do so b4 u start ur journey. if u have to go somewhere else after that and need something from the boot, get it b4 moving off. simple rule is do not open ur boot to show off that u have something in there. and its not just about parked cars. sometime back i mentioned my colleagues experience how the window was smashed at a traffic light junction. the best solution is probably to have your glass tinted cos the tinting film is supposed to prevent the glass from shattering and it will be hard for the blokes to remove ur glass then.

empress_julz
11-03-2003, 05:49 PM
yes that is true...

i know a few colleagues in my friends office. they were all so stupid. they got to the destination and then put the laptop in the boots. needless to say they all disappeared.

the beautiful thing was everyone knew the story but ppl kept repeating the mistake!

pcyeoh
14-03-2003, 02:15 PM
Interestingly, last night I was at the Tropicana Golf and Country Resort attending a financial briefing. I parked my car at Basement 2. Even at 7.30pm, there were hardly any car although Basement 1 was full. At around 8.40pm, the briefing was interrupted with an announcement that the car owner of WEX 5XXX would have to report to security for his car was broken into. Since it was quiet near to my car number, I felt very discomfortable but nevertheless I sat through the whole presentation. At 10 pm, I proceeded to get my car and you could say that I nearly ****t in my pants. There were only 3 cars left at the spot I parked and on the floor were glasses everywhere. Could they have misread the numbers? Upon checking closely, I thanked my Almighty God that my car was spared. Besides WEX 5XXX, another car next to mine suffered the same fate. There were severable people crowding around my car. Guess what was common between them? Yes, when I asked the owners, both of them said they left their bags in the car seats. For two smelly tracksuits and socks that even a skunk would runaway from, the car burglars broke two car windows - one a Toyota Altis and another a Nissan Sentra!!! Well, you better listen to what Patrick and Joker 2107 are saying. I know 2107 is not joking when he advising. And I am not joking too because you can verify this incident with the club. Unfortunately, the club is not liable to pay compensation. I was checked by a "very tight security" with just one question "Ada apa hal encik?" when entering the resort. I suspected that even the crooks told them the truth when they were let it. If not how could the security be so lax??

xweird
14-03-2003, 06:18 PM
Wow! Some ppl will go to such extents to grab anything they can from cars!!! Even empty bags with smelly socks?! Wow...

Do any of you keep coins in your car? I do, and I'm afraid now... soft toys too, do u think ppl will break into cars to steal soft toys?

empress_julz
14-03-2003, 10:46 PM
i dont think they know the contents of the bags. they're just trying their luck... hopefully someone left a wallet or something valuable inside.

robertec
15-03-2003, 03:21 PM
The management is not liable to pay compensation
The management accepts no responsibility
You park at your own risk

Normal phrases that we associate with Car Parks and the crooks are wise to this, resulting in more and more cases of security breaches inside car parks, so much so that the Government is trying to put a stop to it.

The Cabinet has decided recently that with immediate effect, all owners of car parks in Shopping Malls, Condominiums, Apartment Blocks and Offices must put in place security measures to ensure the safety of patrons, from vandalism, robbery or more serious crime, be it in the form of patrolling security guards or close-circuit television.

Do you think that this will stop the crime in car parks?

You betcha.

Probelm is will the directive be carried through? or will it end up in the files of local authorities?

lady-o-leisure
15-03-2003, 09:28 PM
Close circuit tv/ cams really do work. Everywhere in Taipei there are cams hooked up on roadside lamp posts or buildings. They are set up every 10metres or so. Even in schools there are those cams along with motion sensor lights. Outside shops and anywhere u can think of, there are cams. Each time some vandal does something illegal, you can see it on the news and the fella is caught. Some hv been caught scratching neighborhood cars parked along the roadside, some stealing bikes, there was even once where a deranged neighbor poured hot water onto an electric motorscooter was caught in the act. Having faces on the news helps the police gain identity of the culprit. This way when anyone wants to accuse another of vandalism, there is proof in hand.

empress_julz
15-03-2003, 10:52 PM
in london, most of the streets, but all of the high streets (oxford, regent, piccadilly) are all monitored by CCTV. crime has dropped drastically in those areas, and when it does happen, it's much easier to narrow down the suspects.

i think ppl will think twice about risking their reputation over 200 bucks worth of stuff when the chances are higher that they'll be caught. right now, it's free for all for the thieves.

sinleong
16-03-2003, 12:30 AM
In Sweden, CCTV's are illegal because they infringe on someone's privacy. I quite agree - because I don't want to be filmed kissing my girlfriend or doing something embarassing (not crime) which the authorities can use against me one day. Despite that, crime rate is one of the lowest in the world.

Why is it always the victim who have to take the blame? ... leaving their bags on the car seat etc... Crime is not a force majeure. It should not be accepted when it happened and we end up blaming ourselves for our carelessness. If everyone is careful, who will be the unlucky one? The crminals will still strike! They have to earn a living.

The problem lies in our law enforcement. Have you noticed that when you go to a police station to make a report, it's treated just as a report and they will do nothing more.

empress_julz
16-03-2003, 07:53 AM
if you want to put a CCTV camera in my bedroom, i'm against that. a public car park is somewhat different.

if you have a bad situation like you do in london with ppl getting murdered on the street... stabbings, shootings, etc, or even like what you do in malaysian car parks these days with robberies taking place in broad day light, women not being able to stay back late at work for fear of the dangers lurking in the car park, boots being pried open and windows and windscreens smashed for loose change and plastic bags of dirty clothes, i don't think my primary concern is about someone watching me get a peck on the cheek.

i'm not going to care if somebody gets me kissing my bf on video/ vice versa. frankly if you don't mind kissing someone/being kissed in public, you obviously don't have a problem being watched doing so. want privacy? make out at home.

apart from anything, the authorities don't care about public displays of affection when they actually do take these video recordings... they're strictly for criminal deterrence and prosecution, and if it means protecting my property, my (future) children and my life, i wouldn't mind big brother watching me just to be sure that i'm ok.

in milan there was recently this very stupid case which p*ssed the heck out of me. the baggage handlers at the airport were caught on CCTV stealing from the passenger's luggages. they could not be prosecuted for theft because filming them supposedly "infringed their rights". they not only got to keep their jobs, but were able to sue for damages.

what about the rights of the passengers to have their luggage and things intact?

i think there is an extent to which the rights based argument gets quite ridiculous. when people start talking about having criminals' "right" to steal or hurt someone protected, you know there's a serious flaw in the mentality of the constitutional law of the country.

why say the victim is at fault for leaving his or her bag on the car seat? frankly, the situation should be such that people's rights to leave their things on the car seats are protected, rather than protecting the criminal's rights to steal it in private.

i am a woman, and like a lot of women out there, i particularly applaud the introduction of CCTV cameras in parking lots. it would make me feel a lot better knowing that the chances of something happening to me.... whether it be having my car stolen, broken into, or worse still, being attacked and possibly raped in a secluded area would be drastically reduced. and touchwood, if something did happen, the police would have a major lead to follow up with.

i understand your complaint with the police not being able to do anything sin leong. which is especially why we need CCTV cameras... so the cops actually have some leads to follow up on. what else can the police do when you walk in to a station and tell them that your car windscreen was smashed up in mid valley megamall car park? how do you suggest our dear polis diraja malaysia follow up on something like that, with no witnesses, no motive, and possibly no fingerprints? that's precisely why things are an absolute dead end at this point.

people who have nothing to hide, have nothing to fear.

http://www.oxfordstreet.co.uk/security.html

patrick
16-03-2003, 05:09 PM
I love the idea of CCTV. Beside being an effective deterant, they would also provide hard evidence to nab the culprits, may they be thiefs, robbers, rapists or the lower rung vandals. The state of vandalism in our country is rather bad these days and I think one way of reducing such misdemeanours would be the usage of CCTVs. And if the Municipality people have the will, it can also be used to prosecute the litter bugs. Dont tell me you havent seen those couldnt-care-less motorists who shove out of their car windows empty drink cans and tissue papers? Just the other day I saw one car throwing out an old empty tissue box on to the road! Unbelievable that such people still exists in this day and age! I guess that partly sums up Badawi's statement of our First World infrastructure, 3rd world mentality!!

empress_julz
16-03-2003, 11:18 PM
an important point i must stress.

before we get excited about cctv, there are crucial issues to analyse. first and foremost, what is the quality of the video feed of the CCTV?the last thing we want is for ppl to nab someone innocent because the cctv quality was bad.

in most countries the only thing that can identify the person in question is the distance between the nose and the forehead and the nose and the chin. that is at least the situation in italy. the CCTV cameras here and in a lot of places do not hold that well in a court of law - if you had the quality of vision a CCTV camera has, you would be legally blind.

my friend had the misfortune a few months ago of being nabbed for being 1. bald, 2. wearing a jacket (well it was winter afterall) 3. being in the vicinity of an embassy which was broken into in london. they claimed he was caught on camera a few minutes before they got him, and they supposedly positively identified him. further analysis showed it was not him, but they were able to get the bad guy... so you could say it worked.

a lot has to go into the technology. it might actually be cheaper to have a few buggies with security guards police parking lots instead of installing a big security system that may eventually fail.

the other thing about buggies and security guards... i think at least 2 should be on duty at any car park at any time of the day. they could help with a variety of things including escorting women to their cars safely. they have these things in big car parks in america, and student facilities too. they should probably work alongside CCTV cameras, or on it's own at the very least.

but still, i think most people who want to rob cars and the lot won't analyse the plethora of legal issues surrounding CCTV evidence and would probably think twice before breaking into some hapless soul's car for some loose change if there was at least a high degree of chance that they'll be nabbed.

cheers.
///EJ

joker2107
17-03-2003, 07:25 PM
cctvs are about the only stuff to literally keep an eye on our (and public) property. but if what jewellers and banks are eg to go by, we would have some serious concern for quality. if the big boys aren't too concerned about their own millions, what do u think of cctv operators who are looking after other ppl interests? its time overdue to go digital but celluloid seems to be still very much the tech of today.

next point is whos bearing the rm rm rm? as it is parking fees in pte car parks are a bomb without any service. i can imagine rates going at 5 to 10 bucks an hr cos of cameras. and when something happens the same disclaimer will be voiced.

empress_julz
17-03-2003, 10:40 PM
if they charge an extra 50sen to RM1 i think they should be able to do pretty ok covering the costs. as it is profits are quite high for parking companies.

the ppl who sld bare the brunt of the costs should be the building management.

as for quality standards, like i mentioned before, there should be a minimum standard as to what is permitted.

exclusion clauses have to exist; naturally.... if there is a theft and the perpetrator get's away with it, you can't expect to hold the building management responsible for a third party's actions.

sinleong
17-03-2003, 10:54 PM
I have to buy 3rd party liability insurance for my office. In case someone comes into my office and gets injured by a flying pencil or trip over electrical wiring, I am responsible. And I should be. Similarly, you are responsible if your guest gets any injury while he is in your home. If he doesn't like you, he can sue.

So all this exclusion clauses that says building management is not responsible for this, not responsible for that... is crap. It is their responsibility to ensure the safety of their clients and their clients' properties. And they have to take measures to ensure that - e.g. hiring security, CCTV etc.

empress_julz
17-03-2003, 11:54 PM
3rd party insurance is a different segment of the law from exclusion clauses. it takes quite a bit of legal background to delve into the specifics... better if we leave that bit out. but generally speaking....

when you park in a car park and take a ticket which makes you 'subject to the rules of the car park', you have signed a contract with the car park company (based on centuries old offer-acceptance rules of contract). they do have the right to stipulate the rules the car owner is bound to. which is fair... you are after all parking on their property, at their own risk, and they are giving a service subject to terms and conditions.

but..... the car park company still has to take 'reasonable care' in safeguarding the car park. anything that is too unreasonable in the exemption clauses is void for illegality. and you cannot argue that they have not taken 'reasonable care'. take for instance the installation of electronic ticketing systems which cost millions. that does constitute quite a good move in fact.

there are occupiers liability concerns as well, and they will have insurance to cover it, but no insurer will in the right mind cover any car park for such reasonably foreseeable things like break ins, radio thefts, car thefts, etc. etc. as that will be a bankrupt business for anyone, and
since it is 'foreseeable' that there may be break ins, there may be robberies, etc.... it is reasonable Not to hold a car park company liable for these things.

in fact, the additional insurance coverage as well as fees for fighting off/ aiding claims will be what drives car park rates up to RM 5 of perhaps more... not CCTV cameras.


if you want to extend liability to such a wide extent, that enforces a very damaging situation not only in car parks, but in public places. that would mean shopping malls, shopkeepers, or even the small kedai runcit down the street will be liable to victims of pick pockets who thieve wallets, snatch thieves, or potentially any fights/ assaults that may go on, etc. etc. etc. that would also mean that you could sue MPSJ for any accidents that happened on the road in subang, any robberies, anybody being bitten by a dengue mosquito, anybody getting a flu, etc. etc.

there has to be a *balance*, and keeping it too one sided - either towards the owner of the premises, or favouring too much the lay man on the street would be undesirable.