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View Full Version : Man burns self to halt temple teardown...



Shaneburger
08-11-2010, 11:31 PM
from http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/man-burns-self-to-halt-temple-teardown-grievously-hurt/

..."200 Subang Jaya Municipal Council (MPSJ) workers, police and Rela members ...He was saved by members of the public.”

200 personnel and he was saved by members of the public?

Well Done MPSJ - 1Malaysia Boleh!

jimmyay
09-11-2010, 12:43 AM
omg omg....what in the country had Msian become?

Rhiga
09-11-2010, 11:38 AM
Illegal cd shop can be in the same place for more than 10 years (those who stay long enough in USJ will know what I mean), but a worship house must be demolished.

I really don’t know what to say… :mad: :mad:

birdy
09-11-2010, 12:06 PM
Why is the temple has to give way to the kindergarten? :confused:

Sentinel
09-11-2010, 01:17 PM
It happened elsewhere and will continue to happen... unless the rakyat stands up and say "Enough is enough!"! :mad:

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Rhiga
09-11-2010, 01:48 PM
This happened in Selangor, done by the municipal council under the purview of PKR state government !!!!

Really, I start to ask myself, WHO should I vote in the next GE... which is the "better" devil !!!!!!! :mad:

Sentinel
09-11-2010, 01:52 PM
Find out who owns the new kindergarten to be built on the site of this temple - one who could move 200 MPSJ men to do the demolition... and you will know that all devils only understand the colors of money, Sagamihara-san! :mad:

cml
09-11-2010, 04:34 PM
Of all the pr won states i think only kelantan and penang deserve to be retained. Of course i cannot include perak since it was taken away. I think there is a lot of entrenched bull lying around. Behind every situation there is always an angle to it where there is personal interest involved. If not they would not put their head out on the line and they keep forgetting that the internet has changed the game forever.Things you said and did would come back to haunt you forever and it would surface at the most inconvenient time.If all these councillors really had the rakyat's interest in mind then things like these would not happen. But then again , are we expecting too much from the pakatan rakyat.

compounding
09-11-2010, 05:13 PM
from http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/man-burns-self-to-halt-temple-teardown-grievously-hurt/

..."200 Subang Jaya Municipal Council (MPSJ) workers, police and Rela members ...He was saved by members of the public.”

200 personnel and he was saved by members of the public?

Well Done MPSJ - 1Malaysia Boleh!

msia insider twisting stories again :)

http://www.thesundaily.com/article.cfm?id=53813

"Police personnel managed to put out the flames on his body before rushing the man to the Serdang Hospital" ~ the sun

this one got a picture attached.in the hard copy today theres another 2 pictures telling a better story .

i read msia ins and it gave the impression that d police did nothing and just let the poor guy suffer. good job msia insider

jimmyay
09-11-2010, 05:19 PM
Whether which are the better devil, I think we have to show "who's the boss?" We have to show that our votes count.

This fight is not between PR or BN, it is about whether we are in control. In BN, the control are loop-sided toward the cronies, and it stuck hard. That eventually will happened to PR too. (I like one of the saying that "Politican are like diapers, it need to be change often")

Henry T
09-11-2010, 08:12 PM
This happened in Selangor, done by the municipal council under the purview of PKR state government !!!!

Really, I start to ask myself, WHO should I vote in the next GE... which is the "better" devil !!!!!!! :mad:


You mean to say the previous BN Gomen didn't do such thing? :confused:

I don't mean to be insensitive but I want to ask a simple question : does a religious structure squatting on land not belonging to them have more rights than, say, a squatter house?

Also, the Gomen will be acceptable to you only if they allow such illegal structures to remain? What would be your reaction then if that illegal structure is squatting on land owned by you?

Rhiga
10-11-2010, 10:56 AM
You mean to say the previous BN Gomen didn't do such thing? :confused:

I don't mean to be insensitive but I want to ask a simple question : does a religious structure squatting on land not belonging to them have more rights than, say, a squatter house?

Also, the Gomen will be acceptable to you only if they allow such illegal structures to remain? What would be your reaction then if that illegal structure is squatting on land owned by you?

Henry, you totally missed my point.

The previous BN state gomen was overthrown because they think they don’t need to be sensitive to the pledge of minority. They demolished the Indian temple without giving them a viable choice.

I don’t cordon illegal structure to be build on land legitimately owned by other land owner, and please don’t throw this hypothetical question to me.

The fact is – there is a man-made policy/practice to limit the land for religious practice other than the official religion.

Look around USJ/SJ, there are many “church” in shop lots, why ?? The former PM, the so-called Mr. nice guy was once invited to a warehouse-turn-church in Subang Permai. He witnessed it himself the struggles and challenges for the minoritiy religion followers to have a proper place to worship !!!

Don’t twist the argument.

Rhiga
10-11-2010, 11:41 AM
This happened in Selangor, done by the municipal council under the purview of PKR state government !!!!

Really, I start to ask myself, WHO should I vote in the next GE... which is the "better" devil !!!!!!! :mad:

The people gave the mandate to PKR, DAP & PAS in the previous GE.

The expectation - do a better job then the previous state government, sensitive to what the people want especially those who has been constantly marginalised before, rectify the injustice and harness a fair and harmonious living for all the legitimate citizens.

The fact and reality so far - with the exception pf DAP in Penang & PAS in Kelantan, what we heard and is still constantly hearing is the endless internal disputes among PKR, the reformist is being sidelined and he lost his judgment and quit.

That’s why I ask the question – who is the better devil.

Sentinel
10-11-2010, 12:40 PM
But the truth is, Sagamihara-san, whether or not the temple is sitting legally on that piece of land.

I think whether its BN or Pakatan in power, do we really want either of these 2 parties to allow illegal construction of places of worship?

I think Henry T put some sense into the frenzy (I was also guilty of it!) in this thread... do we want to allow illegal buildings to remain on land belonging to others?

I thought religious bodies, whatever religion it might be, they should be the first to obey the law and construct their places of worship legally, no?

cml
10-11-2010, 01:24 PM
I agree that we have to be level headed about this issue irrespective of who rules. No one can just put up a shrine/temple/ place of worship anywhere and on anyone's land and claim it is their right. To me I do not see what is wrong with having places of worship near each other or even side by side. We all have our ways of worship and we cannot claim ours is better than others. The right to religious freedom is enshrined in our constitution. However if we feel that our way of worshipping might offend other races, then we might want to consider the location e.g not having a temple next to a mosque if the fumes of the joss sticks might waft over the other side or if the prayers involved the offering of a certain species of animal that is considered not good. I have seen with my own eyes churches and suraus/mosques coexisting side by side in my travels and they do not have any issues.

I understand that most of the indian temples are located on land in estates belonging to the big plantation companies. These land were previously located inthe middle of no where but with urbanisation suddenly all these temples are sitting on valuable real estate. To me it is a relatively simple exercise for the developer to undertake, i.e. to relocate the temple to a different location, paying for the new place as well as to make it a bigger place for them, giving them a title to the place so that it could be had in perpetuity. However in their efforts to be profit centered these companies are taking the legal approach by insisting that the land belongs to them. That I cannot dispute but if the temple has been there for a hundred years then it should be recognised as such and the alternative site given be in a location befitting the temple instead of moving them in an industrial area with no infrastructure and expect the temple devotees to swallow it hook and line.

In the western countries whole buildings have been moved and relocated. I do not see why it cannot be done if the devotees do not want a new structure . What is the problem here? The local councils should also not play god by deciding what this or that place of worship can or cannot be near another. They should put up a notice for objection and conduct a public hearing and unreasonable objections should be thrown out if the new place of worship conforms to all the necessary laws and by laws.

CS Chua
10-11-2010, 01:29 PM
But the truth is, Sagamihara-san, whether or not the temple is sitting legally on that piece of land.

I think whether its BN or Pakatan in power, do we really want either of these 2 parties to allow illegal construction of places of worship?

I think Henry T put some sense into the frenzy (I was also guilty of it!) in this thread... do we want to allow illegal buildings to remain on land belonging to others?

I thought religious bodies, whatever religion it might be, they should be the first to obey the law and construct their places of worship legally, no?
Well, now that you and Henry T said it, I am of the same opinion. I am not against places of worship and they should be allowed to be built freely. However common sense dictates that there are social and public norms to observed. If anyone is allowed to build it anywhere they like, I would like to build one in the Lake Gardens for starter. The fact is, I cannot and will not. I hope everybody comes to their senses.

Sentinel
10-11-2010, 01:38 PM
Well, now that you and Henry T said it, I am of the same opinion. I am not against places of worship and they should be allowed to be built freely. However common sense dictates that there are social and public norms to observed. If anyone is allowed to build it anywhere they like, I would like to build one in the Lake Gardens for starter. The fact is, I cannot and will not. I hope everybody comes to their senses.

If you have been to The Golden Sands Hotel here in Batu Ferringhi, you will notice there is a mosque located right on its car park... its been there for years sitting on the land and Shangrila (owner of Golden Sands and belonging to Robert Kuok) has not not bothered about it but guests get woken up at 5.25 am by the early morning azan prayers...

Rhiga
10-11-2010, 01:58 PM
I reiterated my point – I don’t condone illegal building to be constructed on land owned by a legitimate land owner.

I want to say it again – It is the policy, the discriminated policy adopted.
Come on, more than 200 people to demolish a temple, hundreds of rela, polis and local council staff to flatten the harvests of the “illegal” vegetables farmers in Cameron, ….the list goes on

Why use such brutal measures?? Do you think the farmers don’t want to plant vege on farm land belong to them without worrying the constant harassment from licensed gangster ?? Can you try to think a moment why the guy resolve to desperate measure to set himself in fire, you think he does not want to have a piece of land for him to worship in peace??

We put those fella in PR into power and we expect them to come out with better measures to resolve the issue. PERIOD

Sentinel
10-11-2010, 04:54 PM
We put those fella in PR into power and we expect them to come out with better measures to resolve the issue. PERIODAny suggestions on the measures, Mr. Sagamihara-san? :D

Rhiga
10-11-2010, 05:00 PM
Any suggestions on the measures, Mr. Sagamihara-san? :D

Allocate land for worship in a fair manner and land is under the jurisdiction of state government.

CS Chua
10-11-2010, 06:20 PM
Allocate land for worship in a fair manner and land is under the jurisdiction of state government.
Agreed wholeheartedly.

USJ27Resident
10-11-2010, 08:53 PM
Allocate land for worship in a fair manner and land is under the jurisdiction of state government.

Nope - it seems all places of worship are now designated to be in Industrial Areas... or kawasan perindustrian ... :rolleyes:

bslee
10-11-2010, 09:32 PM
The regime always seem to insist on fairness to all, but so many events can be viewed with reasons of being flawed and hint of oppression in one or many ways. There'll be no end to all this until everyone does what is appropriate in the next GE. Do your best people if there's any hope left.

Henry T
11-11-2010, 05:28 PM
There is a tendency for some people to expect instant change, a Utopia maybe, upon Pakatan's coming into power in the few states. It is too early to dream.

Whether it is due to their own naivete or Pakatan's good marketing is anyone's guess. The more pragmatic ones just voted for the Party which smells less.

Pakatan does have their work cut out because many naive people expect them to clean out in two years the dirt accumulated over the past 51 years. And they've only got a toothbrush and little money. Heck, they are not even the Federal Gomen.

I can say more but it would exceed the threshold of what is allowed on this forum. :D

bslee
11-11-2010, 05:40 PM
There is a tendency for some people to expect instant change, a Utopia maybe, upon Pakatan's coming into power in the few states. It is too early to dream.

THAT is EXACTLY THE MAIN AND PRIMARY PROBLEM...vote and get instant results...what the heck are they thinking... Instant Maggi Mee ah?

Then the other are mere trouble makers who're bent on disturbing the peace.
What to do?...ROSAKK for just too long! nuff said!

Rhiga
15-11-2010, 10:25 AM
I hope and I really hope some real bad things happened to some mind-blind, brain-dead people who think a ruling party should be given more time….

See whether these @x%# people still think the same way after man-made misfortune happens to him, his family, his siblings, his friends.. See whether he still loudly say - give more them , don’t expect instant result, we are not living in utopia…....

Time for me to feed my pet rat, Hanri with expired bread... :D

aursong
16-11-2010, 07:10 PM
We put those fella in PR into power and we expect them to come out with better measures to resolve the issue. PERIOD

Agree... but...

PR in power for 2 years but efforts is being made and we can probably see the light on the issues being resolve...

BN in power for 50 years and we can only see darkness... and will continue to see darkness if they back into power come next GE...

Cheers...

Sentinel
17-11-2010, 12:30 AM
Sagamihara-san, the power might be in the hands of PR but the civil service has been, for the last 53 years, entrenched as a BN institution, with good measures from Biro Tata Negara (BTN) thrown in too. Look at the recent case in Penang between CM Lim Guan Eng vs. Little Napoleon Nik Mat Ali and you know you're expecting too much from PR in 2 years!

Like many, they never questioned BN for 53 years but suddenly since March 8, 2008, everything wrong is because PR is not good, apamacam lah!

shthang
17-11-2010, 01:11 AM
PR is a toothless tiger as the execution still lies with the gomen institutions and most depts come under the direct control of federal and not state gomen.

Sentinel quoted a good example of what happened in penang. there are thousands of nik mat ali alike in the civil service who are taking orders from putrajaya.

the only way to change is voting for change in the next GE and not burning oneself to sacrifice unnecessarily.

tupai
17-11-2010, 11:33 AM
...
the only way to change is voting for change in the next GE and not burning oneself to sacrifice unnecessarily.

1of the very few logical posts thus far.

The act of bonzo, in this day & age, is a act by bozo...it simply means 1vote less for change. :rolleyes:

Yang Bozo latotupai :cool:

p/s Any illegal structure/squatters on Tupailand will be quickly, publicly and summarily burnt to ashes! Tough. Thats the law. :cool: