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creativ
29-06-2010, 09:37 PM
Hi forummers,
I'm buying a service apartment from a developer and would like some recommendation of experienced s&p lawyer to represent my interest. Will be signing S&P sometime next month.

This is my second purchase; I did not engage my previous lawyer, the one for my first purchase (my current house) because the previous lawyer's expetise I believe is not property s&p.I had to chase them many times to get things done.

:)

USJ27Resident
29-06-2010, 09:45 PM
seriously... just purchased a nice lil pad in Bangsar ~ but somehow had to do some running myself... fill up forms myself... go to TNB myself... go to DBKL myself... wondering why the heck, had to pay 15K for S&P service :eek:


looks like you'd still need to do some run around even with a lawyer.... :p

creativ
29-06-2010, 09:55 PM
USJ27Resident,
I just want my rights and interest to be safeguarded, and just in case if I have any doubts, they are there to advise.

The unit I'm going to buy is only about 300K, so lawyer fees will be about 2.5K I think. Not too bad lah, still can affort. I can't afford not to have one. :D

jadewhite
29-06-2010, 10:42 PM
Creativ, I think more than that la. i have a table for calculating legal fees. PM ur email add. I forward over.

chanelt
30-06-2010, 10:34 AM
Creativ, I think more than that la. i have a table for calculating legal fees. PM ur email add. I forward over.

Don't you get discount? why pay full fee?

Rhiga
30-06-2010, 10:44 AM
Hi forummers,
I'm buying a service apartment from a developer and would like some recommendation of experienced s&p lawyer to represent my interest. Will be signing S&P sometime next month. :)

If you are getting a bank loan to finance the purchase, it is better to have the same lawyer for your S&P and loan agreement.

Bar council had revised the formulae/calculation for property legal fee and members of the Bar Council are not allowed to give discounts.

Cheers

Sentinel
30-06-2010, 01:17 PM
There is a formulae for calculating legal fees for S&P as put down by the Bar Council and most lawyers adhere to it. The only thing to do is to look for an established law firm with experience in property transaction to do your job and leave them to it. Try to find a discount etc you might end up a loyar burok.

creativ
30-06-2010, 01:31 PM
If you are getting a bank loan to finance the purchase, it is better to have the same lawyer for your S&P and loan agreement.
Cheers

Thanks for the tip.

tupai
30-06-2010, 02:54 PM
There is a formulae for calculating legal fees for S&P as put down by the Bar Council and most lawyers adhere to it. The only thing to do is to look for an established law firm with experience in property transaction to do your job and leave them to it. Try to find a discount etc you might end up a loyar burok.

Look lah, this aspect of law is not litigation. SO.....

OBJECTION! I beg to differ and submit these as evidence A, B, C, D & E.

This is legal paper & penpushing. It involves mostly standard photostating of docu with name & property & other bits of important/relevant info changes.

OPf course, the BAR has a set of rates for these non-fighting-cock loyars to charge. Its purely bizz. Its like us looking for Bormas or other Ah Kow stationary shop photostat shop, to do bulk xerox, get discount lah.

ALL loyars dealing with paper&penpushing here CAN give discount..its how u find the jalan only. ;)

U telling the BAR set a fixed, & legally non-nego price for the panel of loyars sitting on the property sellers' side? HAHAHAHAH! Joker lah u! :D

Yang Boleh dapat diskaun latotupai :p

p/s Of course, u can get diskaun from my loyars...but with my intro fee in there, u hv a high chance of paying more than the regular Latiff, Latchumi &Leong loyar from the developer's. :D

creativ
30-06-2010, 03:41 PM
If you are getting a bank loan to finance the purchase, it is better to have the same lawyer for your S&P and loan agreement.


Now the developer's lawyer told me that I have to tell the financier bank to use the them (developer's lawyer themselves) as the loan agreement lawyer for the loan documentation as well, in order for me to enjoy free legal fees.

Can someone advise what's the catch here? I'm puzzled. I always thought that there will be lawyers from 3 parties involved. 1. bank loan lawyer 2. buyer lawyer and 3. Seller lawyer.

Now it seems that I'm moving towards having loan agreement lawyer, buyer lawyer, and seller lawyer all to one lawyer which is the developers own lawyer. Is this normal? :confused:

Rhiga
30-06-2010, 04:06 PM
Creativ,

This is quite common.

Developer will NOT absorb the legal fee and the "fee" will pass to their lawyer. As such, the law firm which represent the developer will hope to get the legal fee from the purchaser as the loan agreement lawyer.

I mentioned earlier it is better to have the same lawyer for S&P and loan agreement as this can expedite the process and communication.

At the end of the day, you have a choice and I donít think developer or the lawyer can insist.

Sentinel
30-06-2010, 06:19 PM
Look lah, this aspect of law is not litigation. SO.....

OBJECTION! I beg to differ and submit these as evidence A, B, C, D & E.

This is legal paper & penpushing. It involves mostly standard photostating of docu with name & property & other bits of important/relevant info changes.

OPf course, the BAR has a set of rates for these non-fighting-cock loyars to charge. Its purely bizz. Its like us looking for Bormas or other Ah Kow stationary shop photostat shop, to do bulk xerox, get discount lah.

ALL loyars dealing with paper&penpushing here CAN give discount..its how u find the jalan only. ;)

U telling the BAR set a fixed, & legally non-nego price for the panel of loyars sitting on the property sellers' side? HAHAHAHAH! Joker lah u! :D

Yang Boleh dapat diskaun latotupai :p

p/s Of course, u can get diskaun from my loyars...but with my intro fee in there, u hv a high chance of paying more than the regular Latiff, Latchumi &Leong loyar from the developer's. :D
You failed to understand what I wrote. I said, try and seek discounts and you will end up with loyar buroks.

To put it simply, I implicitly meant discounts are still given by lawyers (against their own rules) and you will end up more likely dealing with a loyar burok.

tupai
30-06-2010, 07:07 PM
You failed to understand what I wrote. I said, try and seek discounts and you will end up with loyar buroks.

To put it simply, I implicitly meant discounts are still given by lawyers (against their own rules) and you will end up more likely dealing with a loyar burok.


i understood lah...its just that i disagree there is any loyar burok, in such pen&paper pushing loyar category...

I mean, how can they make any significant mistake except for the grammatical/typo/spelling ones? These loyars are penpusher lah...the litigation eagles, ahhhh! thats a diff cattle of sotongs altogether.


Yang Bersaing loyar latotupai :)

Sentinel
30-06-2010, 07:15 PM
One can actually google for sample S&P Agreements online and just fill in the names of purchaser and vendor etc but who is going to go to land office to search for title or place a caveat or do the transfer? In the end, loyar burok pun boleh lah...

cskok8
01-07-2010, 11:37 AM
It is a BAD idea to have the same lawyer representing you and the developer for the S&P. In the event of any dispute guess whose side the lawyer will be on. You can appoint the same lawyer to represent you in the S&P and loan agreements but not if the same lawyer is also acting for the developer and bank.

tupai
01-07-2010, 01:32 PM
It is a BAD idea to have the same lawyer representing you and the developer for the S&P. In the event of any dispute guess whose side the lawyer will be on. You can appoint the same lawyer to represent you in the S&P and loan agreements but not if the same lawyer is also acting for the developer and bank.

Agreed. But ALL them clever developers will only give 'free S&P agreement', if u use their own loyar (negotiated at a very special bulk diskaun lah ~ what BAR gonna say to this???) ...else, if u wanna have yr own loyar, u pay lah. :(

Developers dont and never love us lah. they just wanna sell us their unit lah! :o

Yang Beli 'umah lo-kos disinisana latotupai

cskok8
01-07-2010, 03:43 PM
You pay peanuts you get monkeys ;)

Another point to note is that "serviced apartments" are built on commercial land and do not fall under the Housing Development Act. Therefore there is no "standard" S&P and you do not get any protection (whatever little there is) under the said Act.

chanelt
01-07-2010, 05:04 PM
You failed to understand what I wrote. I said, try and seek discounts and you will end up with loyar buroks.

To put it simply, I implicitly meant discounts are still given by lawyers (against their own rules) and you will end up more likely dealing with a loyar burok.

I don't agree. I liaise with lot of lawyers, from infamous to reputated one, they all give discount & yet submit excellent job. Just how to get it done prefectly only.

how many legal suit here? we are not american lah. Lawyers are human also, cari makan so susah.

creativ
01-07-2010, 05:07 PM
Another point to note is that "serviced apartments" are built on commercial land and do not fall under the Housing Development Act. Therefore there is no "standard" S&P and you do not get any protection (whatever little there is) under the said Act.

Looks like serviced apartments is now governed by HDA, according to this site http://www.horlic.com/is-serviced-apartment-in-malaysia-protected-by-housing-development-act-hda-schedule-h/

ng
01-07-2010, 05:09 PM
I don't agree. I liaise with lot of lawyers, from infamous to reputated one, they all give discount & yet submit excellent job. Just how to get it done prefectly only.

how many legal suit here? we are not american lah. Lawyers are human also, cari makan so susah.

Agree. Those who didn't give discount may not do a good job as those who did. I have met some arrogant lawyers before who had so many customers that they don't give good service regardless of discount given.

tupai
01-07-2010, 05:30 PM
Aiyah some peep too much lah...whole life buy 1 or 2 or 3 or 5 or 10 or 20 :p properties also wanna get discount, from the no-developer-bias, lawyers who might just be able to protect u...Really tough bizz this loyar category. :eek:

No wonder last year, my pen-paperpushing husband&wife friendly loyar-team, gave up their practice, to work full time for others....'Aiyah, too many headaches and ended up working for overheads&staff's salaries' was the answer...Sedih tapi benar. :o

Give chance lah, beli 1only RM500K-1million hse, loyar fees how much? kacang lah...unless of course, u cari makan like me, buying properties every 3hours, (believe it or not? read byline ok,) as a FULL time but speculative job! But hey! some1 gotta do it!...they & i also cari makan lah... :D :D

To be or not to be. I mean to "pay full or not to pay full." :p

Yang Bayar halffare latotupai :p

Sentinel
01-07-2010, 07:10 PM
I don't agree. I liaise with lot of lawyers, from infamous to reputated one, they all give discount & yet submit excellent job. Just how to get it done prefectly only.

how many legal suit here? we are not american lah. Lawyers are human also, cari makan so susah.Sorry, I disagree with your viewpoints. Good lawyers, in the first place, do not necessary come from reputable firms. They can be a husband and wife team too, like what Tupai mentioned. Those who give discounts must be susah cari makan simply because they just ain't that good. I have had my fair share of dealing with lawyers. In fact, I am currently involved with 3 lawyers at the same time, you can tell straight away which one boleh pakai and which one sar thiam long.

Kissme
01-07-2010, 07:26 PM
Agree. Those who didn't give discount may not do a good job as those who did. I have met some arrogant lawyers before who had so many customers that they don't give good service regardless of discount given.

Err.. my experience is not the same. I know lawyers can give 30% discount on S&P and still do a good job. hehe... Try those firms that specialise in SPAs, I think they can give you cheaper price. I've meet one lawyer that wasn't willing to give any discount and despite of that his service to the client was very bad.

jadewhite
01-07-2010, 08:13 PM
Don't you get discount? why pay full fee?

Of course I asked for discount. The table I am having is an automated spreadsheet which provides indicative legal fees, stamp duty and etc.

I had a bad experience with a lawyer from Kelana Jaya. He did not furnished all the necessarily documents to me (Official Receipts of legal fees, stamp duty etc) . Half a year lette, it just came to my mind that he has yet to mail to me as promised. I sent an email and he had the cheek to responded that the file was close and if I still need the documents,the payment would be RM300 to extract the file out and for each copy of the document I need to pay RM10. I argued but he insisted that that's the company process.

chanelt
03-07-2010, 12:19 PM
Sorry, I disagree with your viewpoints. Good lawyers, in the first place, do not necessary come from reputable firms. They can be a husband and wife team too, like what Tupai mentioned. Those who give discounts must be susah cari makan simply because they just ain't that good. I have had my fair share of dealing with lawyers. In fact, I am currently involved with 3 lawyers at the same time, you can tell straight away which one boleh pakai and which one sar thiam long.

sabar sabar... read my msg carefully, I didn't say good lawyers must be from reputable firms? I said, both infamous & reputable firms provided good services & gave discounts, from my past experience.

I liaise with at least 5 lawyers currently for different services - SPA on properties, SSA on acquisition, business consultancy, new bank loan (panel) & refinancing (panel). I can said my appointed lawyers came with discounts & excellent services, except the bank loan & refinancing. I can't tahan those bank panel lawyers. If I have choice, I will definitely kick them out.