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AllUrban
07-01-2010, 05:21 PM
Two price structures for petrol from May 1 (http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2010/1/7/nation/20100107160536&sec=nation)

There will be two price structures for petrol from May 1 - one for Malaysians and another for foreigners according to Domestic Trade and Consumer Affairs Minister Datuk Seri Ismail Sabri Yaakob.

*For Malaysians, the price of petrol will also be based on engine capacity, which means that not all would be entitled to subsidised fuel.

*Those eligible for the fuel subsidy would be able to buy fuel based on the current prices while those who are not eligible for it, will have to pay the market price.

*The current subsidy is 30sen per litre RON95 for petrol. The current price of RON95 petrol is RM1.80 compared to the actual price, which is RM2.10.


Cheers, m

mick123
07-01-2010, 05:42 PM
wow....those who drive small capacity engine cars earn less.......what about those driving RX7s and RX8s? eesh, our dear minister tok tok again........looks like i need to get a tiara so that i can buy subsidised fuel.....oooopss me bad, revealed one loop hole oledi........

Tong
07-01-2010, 06:50 PM
I wonder what is the definition of "foriegner" ???

Naka
07-01-2010, 07:27 PM
I wonder what is the definition of "foriegner" ???

The Thais, Singaporeans, Phillippinos, Indonesians. :D

klutch
07-01-2010, 07:39 PM
I wonder if there's a hidden agenda behind this proposal; i.e:

To promote the sales of Perodua & Proton; these drivers will enjoy subsidised prices & the non-Malaysian car makes will have to pay full price... :confused: :eek: !!!!

What happened to SatuMalaysia??? SatuPolisi???

Tong
07-01-2010, 08:55 PM
Interesting ... so even if they are here legally, working and paying taxes and contributing to society by supporting local companies with hard earned cash .. they will still be penalised all just to scrape in a few ringgit! or is there more to it than meets the eye?

The burden of enforcement will of course fall on the petrol stations .. it will be interesting to see just exactly how they do it!

One might wonder where the implementation of such a discriminatory & short sighted policy will lead ... Will "foriegners" eventually have to pay more for rice, more for electricity and water, public transport etc .. how will that work? perhaps different colored buses and trains smaller water pipes .. blue rice?? :eek: :eek:

I have never heard of any other country that divides it population in such a way .. South Africa used to I think???

VeeJay
07-01-2010, 09:18 PM
First of all, I dont fell its fail to have a separate rates for non-citizens, we wanted them to be be, immaterial professional or maids. If we require them to be here, the least they could enjoy is lower living rate, rather than charging higher rate for them. This is going to have ripple affects on those MNC companies that bring expats and foreign workers here.

Second, it is also nto fair to charge by engine capacity. Higher engine capacity does not mean they belong to higher income group, there are luxury cars, such as benz, bmz, cefiro, with 3000cc being sold sub $30K. Many low and middle incomers do grab them. So where do they stand? They dont get help?!

This is nonsensical!

isarahim
08-01-2010, 01:15 AM
Easy to cheat.

If you have MB S500 or Jaguar, just get a cheap second hand Kancil. Fill her up and pump it over.

If you are foreigner, get a local to fill it up for you.

jan tomaswaki
08-01-2010, 06:47 AM
They are making things more and more complicated.My nephew staying in JB but working in S'pore with a S'pore register car but he still pump petrol at M'sians rate as his father in law owns the petrol kiosk. :D :D

xaviers
08-01-2010, 07:37 AM
Now you'll have touts at the petrol station

"nak petrol ka, guna saya punya kad, u baya saya RM ?"

everything has a price

firefox
08-01-2010, 07:51 AM
Small engine cheaper petrol i will drink to that..hope it would be cheaper than rm1.80 ;)

Tong
08-01-2010, 07:56 AM
If they are worried about people coming across the borders and filling up why don't they address that problem. it would be simple to do .. just make sure that all tanks coming in are full! how hard would that be. what is the gain .. per tankful about myr16 personally for 16 ringgit I wouldn't bother.

It's the nature of some people to cheat to save a few cents it's the same everywhere .. but why take the easy way out & make rules that impose penalties on the innocent .. there is enough of that with airport security and banking requirements etc etc.

There is a significant difference in cost of diesel between UK & Europe (higher tax in UK) and people go out with empty tank and come back with full, trucks included, but nobody gets paranoid about it.


:)

currymee
08-01-2010, 08:00 AM
If they are worried about people coming across the borders and filling up why don't they address that problem. it would be simple to do .. just make sure that all tanks coming in are full! how hard would that be. what is the gain .. per tankful about myr16 personally for 16 ringgit I wouldn't bother.

It's the nature of some people to cheat to save a few cents it's the same everywhere .. but why take the easy way out & make rules that impose penalties on the innocent .. there is enough of that with airport security and banking requirements etc etc.

There is a significant difference in cost of diesel between UK & Europe (higher tax in UK) and people go out with empty tank and come back with full, trucks included, but nobody gets paranoid about it.


:)


Even EASIER (although if implemented, will be a STUPID move) - NO FOREIGN CARS into Malaysia FULL STOP - park and ride at the border - taxis will be BOOMING :p :p

bslee
08-01-2010, 10:02 AM
NO FOREIGN CARS into Malaysia FULL STOP - park and ride at the border - taxis will be BOOMING :p :p

Sorry, it'll never happen. Not forgetting the Thai and Singapore border. Might as well tell S'poreans don't come holiday or eat here.
There must be maximum enforcement to fuel smuggling across the border anyhow. What is periodically reported may only be the tip of the iceberg. I think its been quite a serious problem all the while.
Unfortunately, whatever enforcement, people will still find devious methods to counter it and continue to cheat.

KelvC
08-01-2010, 10:31 AM
Potential issues to ponder about if the gov is tagging the mykard with the transportat ministry's database:

1. What if driver (e.g. college student driving parent's car, etc) don't technically owns a car but pumps petrol, so what rate should apply when the person swipes his/her mykard?

2. Which registered car cc's applies if owner has more than one car? e.g. one Kancil 660 (for student) and another, say, Perdana? *Mestilah Kancil!* (Don't even need to even explain the kapchai scenario, 'nuh said)

3. When driver drives company boss car, which mykard applies? (boss, boleh pinjam you punya mykard, kena swipe mykardlah)

I'm sure I could put in some other scenarios but would prefer to wait for the announcement before the gov picks up all the good stuff online :D

jimmyay
08-01-2010, 10:35 AM
They are making things more and more complicated.My nephew staying in JB but working in S'pore with a S'pore register car but he still pump petrol at M'sians rate as his father in law owns the petrol kiosk. :D :D

Ohhh... since it is family business, sure close 2 eyes. :p

jimmyay
08-01-2010, 10:37 AM
Small engine cheaper petrol i will drink to that..hope it would be cheaper than rm1.80 ;)

Nope. They ask other to pay more. The rest still stick to RM1.80. It is another way to get more income for the govt.

JoeJaffar
08-01-2010, 10:57 AM
govt should just simplify things. this tiered-pricing or whatever they call it, it's a waste of time and money.

remove the fuel subsidy, but at the same time remove the AP or whatever duties there are on cars. let the public buy the car they want, at the right price and specifications, and pay fuel at an unsubsidized rates.

pay-as-you-use in way.

jan tomaswaki
08-01-2010, 11:22 AM
Why make so complicated,foriegn reg. cars pay your country rate.I think M'sia is in between Thai and S'pore unless Obama arrive by Hummer he has to pay USD rate :D :D

firefox
08-01-2010, 04:23 PM
Anything thing can happen from now to May, we are famous for flip flops..nothing is sure in this country.

AllUrban
08-01-2010, 04:46 PM
I will do my best to find out more info from the Ministry about this...will see what I am allowed to reveal.

Im actually concerned because I am a temporary resident of Malaysia and I probably wouldnt get the subsidy.

My feeling is that it would probably be cheaper and easier for the government to get rid of the subsidy and simply give all owners of small cars less than 1.5-1.6L RM1000 additional credit on their taxes + RM1000 cash rebate if they pay their taxes.

Cheers, m

gtl
08-01-2010, 05:10 PM
frankly i dont know how they can make this work.........
what abt the poor chap which drive an old beat up 15 year old 2.5 litre toyota?

kwchang
08-01-2010, 06:01 PM
Just a spanner in the works, if you may ... do you know anyone can buy a 20 year old Merc for less than RM3,000 or thereabouts? So now they are stuck with a hefty petrol bill.

Moral of the story, size of vehicle isn't a guide to the income level. How about factoring in the age of the vehicle?

HaHaHa, that would screw up the whole programme, wouldn't it? Back to the drawing boards, folks. Sometimes, I wonder if they have the proper think-tanks that advice the PM on such 'solutions'?

shthang
08-01-2010, 06:17 PM
Anything thing can happen from now to May, we are famous for flip flops..nothing is sure in this country.

i agree. take a look at wat happened to RPGT decision recently.


clearly this decision implied to me dat the deficit is worsening.......................


gahmen kenot remove the fuel subsidy due to the inflation and political risks. hence this tier fuel pricing is introduced to balance the risks and budget.



i never come across any country ever using such kind of tier fuel pricing. the intention is good but the process and control to implement it are just too complex and onerous. it will fail...................... like other boleh projects.

robertec
08-01-2010, 06:35 PM
Anyone wants to guess how much it will cost to set this all up??

ivanhow
09-01-2010, 02:54 AM
Anyone wants to guess how much it will cost to set this all up??
Yea, robertec... it means someone along the line is going to craft out a scheme of things to be implemented (and get a cut) such as another software that all petrol stations will have to use in order to connect to the national registration database to verify whether the purchaser is a citizen or not via mykad, and all entry into the country will need to issue with a temporary 'mykad' which they already have implemented at the immigration points in Johore (and Padang Besar I suppose). And make the station operators pay for the software cost, and the petrol suppliers subsidise the software costs as well. And then the garmen will impose a 'tax' for using connecting into the natreg database to make a query... then the database queries will be bring about query congestion at the natreg servers... and you guess what... Another national budget blown out of proportion... and at the end of the day the taxpayers will have to pay for it... and perhaps all the time spend to craft out the software will create another problem, and all the money collected will go to waste as well just like what JoeJaffar says.


govt should just simplify things. this tiered-pricing or whatever they call it, it's a waste of time and money.

There are more downside (to the masses) than upside (to the garmen).

Garmen reduced the roadtax couple of years back. It would just be easier to collect the subsidy via roadtax, part of which should go to the building and maintenance of the roads infrastructure of the state and country, rather than fiddling with all these. They only create avenues for irregularities, for loopholes and so on. Just pay according to engine capacity and the age of the vehicle, and based on the purchase price if necessary. Make it just an annual affair when renewing the vehicle license (roadtax). And allow income tax rebate for those who file their income taxes based on their income earning capacity (which is more equitable) as a form of national service. Business income that earn more profit contribute more, income earners who earn more to contribute more.

Taxes and duties collected from the rakyat and businesses should be used to improve the transportation system to benefit them and the community that supports them.

I wonder whether GST will be imposed on purchase of petrol as well? Hope not.

USJ27Resident
09-01-2010, 10:05 AM
frankly i dont know how they can make this work.........
what abt the poor chap which drive an old beat up 15 year old 2.5 litre toyota?

do you really think the Gomen wud really care.... like what kwchang has mentioned.... 20yr old merc can get for 3-5K, earlier today I saw my first car I drove, a well kept RED with black pin striped (classic) Cressida 2.8 GLi - when I spoke to the chap... he said [give &take] about 5K.... now with the fuel price plans, not sure sure he's gonna keep that beauty...

As far as the Gomen is concern ( and if ANYONE has noticed ) Najib is slowly abandoning all forms of Gomen subsidies, as if to make life a lot tougher for ALL Malaysians.... (retribution perhaps, for the 2008 elections?)

bslee
09-01-2010, 10:18 AM
Najib is slowly abandoning all forms of Gomen subsidies, as if to make life a lot tougher for ALL Malaysians.... (retribution perhaps, for the 2008 elections?)

Errrr... I seem to read anywhere that despite or consequences or reluctance, many rakyat are supporting the eventual removal of government subsidies. But there's a clear difference between government controlled price and subsidy policy. I'm no economist but I could feel that the controlling of price, relative to free import and free market of essential goods must be addressed or tackled in an intelligent approach. However, there's also the question of protecting local producers, agriculture and food industries. Protection, how long more is protection needed? What I mean to say is allow a free market on many goods and essentials and encourage stiffest competition that may drive lower prices in future. I believe those "ceiling prices" don't work to the benefit of the rakyat anymore and is a stale policy. Another classic example we rakyat have to tolerate or endure the now 24 years (THAT'S QUARTER OF A CENTURY ALREADY) of protection for a local auto manufacturer.
Ok, ok, maybe about essential goods is not related to fuel price issue right now, but lower prices of many other goods may help cushion the effects of inflation.

USJ27Resident
09-01-2010, 12:18 PM
Errrr... I seem to read anywhere that despite or consequences or reluctance, many rakyat are supporting the eventual removal of government subsidies.....

hahahaaaaa.... can't wait... mebbe they wud remove the subsidies that have help a dead donkey, carry on for so long.....

.... oopps! I meant Proton... :p

ksj_cool
09-01-2010, 12:22 PM
We pump into Kancil & then transfer to our Honda!
Can someone recomend me a good pump to tranfer the fuel?

pokemon
09-01-2010, 12:47 PM
Why not we bring along a few jerry cans too?

bslee
09-01-2010, 12:57 PM
Why not we bring along a few jerry cans too?

I hope you leave that as a joke. Are you aware of the danger of storing or handling petrol in that manner? (if you speaking about double digit litres). Even an empty can of petrol can pose some danger where fumes may be still present. I wouldn't live next door to you if I found out you're storing a sizeable amount of petrol in the open.

cskok8
09-01-2010, 06:02 PM
Yea, robertec... it means someone along the line is going to craft out a scheme of things to be implemented (and get a cut) such as another software that as well?

I would not be surprised if somebody has already done that ;)

Sentinel
09-01-2010, 06:40 PM
How do we justify or rather where is the fairness using engine capacity when you consider some of the most powerful cars are not powerful in terms of engine capacities and only the wealthy could afford for example :

i) VW Golf GTI which is below 2000 c.c. (RM220K)
ii) Subaru S204 which is below 2000c.c. (around RM300K)
iii) Audi A4 which is 1800 c.c. turbocharged (around RM240K)
iv) Audi A6 which is just below 2000cc and cost more than RM300K)
v) BMW 320i which is 2000 c.c. (is around RM240K)
vi) Mercedes C200 which is close to RM300K
vii) Volvo S60 which is 2000 c.c. and cost around RM240K

All these are luxury models and gaz guzzlers too. How could the government justify the two-tier subsidy system using engine capacity as a benchmark? What about the Mini Cooper S and VW Beetle which are both below 2000 c.c. and cost around RM220K each?

The rich motorists driving these luxury models will enjoy the same price of petrol with the little guy running around in a 850 c.c. Kancil? There must be a better mechanism to fix pump price.

Perhaps, just perhaps, just rid off the subsidy and let the pump price float according to the market price and then maybe the public transport system will be forced to improve and develop?

tupai
09-01-2010, 07:47 PM
I vote for free floating the price...then give back some money/incentives to the rakyak with lower cc and older car (and bikes) and of course, lower taxes on parts

(idiot! i just paid Rm2010 for a set of 2 YES! TWO tyres on my Juicy Lucy!)... :mad:

Yang Benggang latotupai

p/s smuggling of diesel is still going on up north...curb that and the country $ave$ million$$$$ :mad:

Tong
09-01-2010, 07:50 PM
i) VW Golf GTI which is below 2000 c.c. (RM220K)
ii) Subaru S204 which is below 2000c.c. (around RM300K)
iii) Audi A4 which is 1800 c.c. turbocharged (around RM240K)
iv) Audi A6 which is just below 2000cc and cost more than RM300K)
v) BMW 320i which is 2000 c.c. (is around RM240K)
vi) Mercedes C200 which is close to RM300K
vii) Volvo S60 which is 2000 c.c. and cost around RM240K


Now this is a whole nother issue .. the fact is they don't cost that much anywhere else!! whilst petrol may be cheap relatively speaking you have to spend an arm and leg to buy something to put it in. It would be better the other way around imho.

Tong
09-01-2010, 07:56 PM
Incidentally in UK my 2nd home I have a 2002 volvo s80 sat doing nothing (covered in snow prolly) what would that be worth here??

USJ27Resident
09-01-2010, 11:01 PM
We pump into Kancil & then transfer to our Honda!
Can someone recomend me a good pump to tranfer the fuel?

Yeahhh!! I can rent out my 850cc Kancil now... :p

ivanhow
10-01-2010, 12:54 AM
This whole concept is quirky and waste of time and money.

If you own two or more vehicles of differing capacities, and you pump the petrol for both vehicles. What device would you carry to tell the petrol pumps which pricing structure be applied? Do you have to insert that information at petrol pump (with someone's finger)? Or you will need to have a verifier (either using a man or a machine or a robot)? Either way, this is going to add extra cost the the existing infrastructure. Hence, again Joe said it, "it's a waste of time and money." And, irregularities when 'fingers' :p are involved.

clfoo
10-01-2010, 01:43 AM
actually it can be implemented with less fuss .. just let the petrol price free float and give tax payer about rm8000 rebate per year for petrol. But do they have the gut to do it?

gtl
10-01-2010, 07:30 AM
Anyone wants to guess how much it will cost to set this all up??

you r rite, i think it is another money spinner which will ended up being abandon very soon........

Sentinel
10-01-2010, 12:35 PM
The last time they handed out the RM625 subsidy per car below 2000cc, POS Malaysia made RM40 million in commission payment from the government. And who own POS Malaysia, KJ?

AllUrban
11-01-2010, 02:14 PM
Perhaps, just perhaps, just rid off the subsidy and let the pump price float according to the market price and then maybe the public transport system will be forced to improve and develop? giving subsidy via the tax system is much easier than giving subsidy via this 2-tier nonsense.

Just give a RM1000 annual rebate to each individual Malaysian with less than RM30,000 in annual income...provided that they file their tax returns...they get RM1000.

As for individual Malaysians with more than RM30,000 in income, give them a RM1000 tax exemption, which will increase their total tax exemption and reduce the overall tax payable.

The upside is that more Malaysians start to pay income tax *and* it will cost less to implement than the 2-tier fuel system.

The value of the subsidy is now only RM0.30 per litre. The cost of implementing the 2-tier system will be far greater than RM0.30 per litre.

Cheers, m

ps. numbers can be revised if needed.

Nick Chia
12-01-2010, 12:21 PM
Simple lah, alter your kancil's boot into a super duper tank and transfer it to a Shakap puoir Chea ( hainanese for mercedes ) :D :D

superdude11224
12-01-2010, 02:02 PM
Now you'll have touts at the petrol station

"nak petrol ka, guna saya punya kad, u baya saya RM ?"

everything has a price


Stupid policies to make our lives more difficult. Sometimes I feel like this guys just sit around all day in their meeting rooms thinking of more interesting ways to screw us over. This will never stop, they will keep increasing all the time and then use the famous excuse that our prices still cheeper compared to this and that country. No money to subsidise but got money to sponsor F1 go figure.

hezron
13-01-2010, 09:38 AM
giving subsidy via the tax system is much easier than giving subsidy via this 2-tier nonsense.

Just give a RM1000 annual rebate to each individual Malaysian with less than RM30,000 in annual income...provided that they file their tax returns...they get RM1000.

As for individual Malaysians with more than RM30,000 in income, give them a RM1000 tax exemption, which will increase their total tax exemption and reduce the overall tax payable.

The upside is that more Malaysians start to pay income tax *and* it will cost less to implement than the 2-tier fuel system.

The value of the subsidy is now only RM0.30 per litre. The cost of implementing the 2-tier system will be far greater than RM0.30 per litre.

Cheers, m

ps. numbers can be revised if needed.

I support this idea (subsidy thru tax exemption) too...
btw, lots of Malaysian don't even up to the income level to start paying tax...
but those low income families will really suffer from the free floating petrol price...

on the other hand, gov can't just withdraw the subsidy and put the money to some unknown places (like the RM2.70 petrol price hike and the RM44b saving from subsidy went MIA)...
they need to do something with the saving for the good of the low income families (like improve the public transport system)...

AllUrban
13-01-2010, 04:08 PM
I support this idea (subsidy thru tax exemption) too...
btw, lots of Malaysian don't even up to the income level to start paying tax...
but those low income families will really suffer from the free floating petrol price...

on the other hand, gov can't just withdraw the subsidy and put the money to some unknown places (like the RM2.70 petrol price hike and the RM44b saving from subsidy went MIA)...
they need to do something with the saving for the good of the low income families (like improve the public transport system)...agreed...but one important thing is not just paying income tax, but filing income tax returns.

Even if people arent making enough money to pay taxes, by linking the subsidy with the tax-filing system, more people will file taxes regularly instead of not bothering.

That means the government can get more accurate information about the population, community and the economy, much better than out of date census reports.

Cheers, m

Sentinel
13-01-2010, 11:58 PM
Census reports are out-of-date not only in Malaysia but the entire world. It is world practice to carry out national census every 10 years normally beginning of a decade. I think 2010 is a census year for all countries.

USJ27Resident
14-01-2010, 12:44 AM
agreed...but one important thing is not just paying income tax, but filing income tax returns.

Cheers, m

Dude... buddy... it had to be you :p to come up with this great idea.... but seriously - do you really think the clowns would really want to implement something so transparent, so viable like this.... I don't think so... furthermore - they CANNOT think out of the box, to implement something as simple as those fellas hard selling 2 tier idea la....

Sentinel
14-01-2010, 12:57 AM
In the private sector, people are trying to live by the KISS principle i.e. Keeping It Short & Simple (KISS) but it seems to the Putrajaya folks, its more like making things complicated and confusing, they look better as "thinkers"... only goes to show these folks are in their own lost world.... LOL!

expat1609
14-01-2010, 08:08 AM
Interesting ... so even if they are here legally, working and paying taxes and contributing to society by supporting local companies with hard earned cash .. they will still be penalised all just to scrape in a few ringgit! or is there more to it than meets the eye?
......


....and that could be only the beginning. during this was announced it was also mentioned that more "taxes for foreigners" could follow.
no wonder many choose to stay here illegal...no taxes, no extra taxes :D :p

me, having to pay more for petrol soon, still waiting what and how they want to implement that.

funny "malaysia-boleh-fact", they will implement and announce how it works on 1st may, wow, at midnight i suppose and 1malaysia will understand the system in a split second and everything will work smooth :rolleyes:

i do not even own a car, can i get "1malaysia-petrol" when showing the registration card of the vehicle, or do i need my family to follow me to singapore, ipoh penang.. on my business trips so my wife can fill my tank :confused:

cskok8
14-01-2010, 03:18 PM
In the private sector, people are trying to live by the KISS principle i.e. Keeping It Short & Simple (KISS) but it seems to the Putrajaya folks, its more like making things complicated and confusing, they look better as "thinkers"... only goes to show these folks are in their own lost world.... LOL!

I thought it stands for Keep It Simple, STUPID!

tupai
14-01-2010, 03:31 PM
In the private sector, people are trying to live by the KISS principle i.e. Keeping It Short & Simple (KISS) but it seems to the Putrajaya folks, its more like making things complicated and confusing, they look better as "thinkers"... only goes to show these folks are in their own lost world.... LOL!

I digress...
when i was a cooliecutive, i had a boss who used to 'hantam' me for my KISS proposal...he said "When you want client to spend RMmillion$, the least you should do is to make your proposal 1-2inch thick!"...Not just 20pages thin and then rock&roll all the way.

This 'know-all-how-to fatten-things-with-irrelevant-stats-convoluted-blahblah info" is a everydaylong sleeve-white-shirt-with cuffs, boring tie with *yawn*tie-pin, belted dark blue pants, short-trimmed not a hair outta place kinda ibm corporate man! HAHAHAHA! And he wanted those coolies under him to dress the same! :eek: As if the client judge our work by our attire?

Yaallah! And we were in the creative bizz! HAHAHAHAH! So why would a client wanna have some1 look the same, think the same, dress the same, talk the same as himself??? hahahaha

We'r in the bizz to sell dreams and aspirations and things you dont need! and We have all but 30sec to sell u everything including "pls remember my name" :p

Yang Berkeeping it KISS latotupai

ps/ ...that str8laced boss lasted exactly 10mth and was nicely outflanked by mavericks... :D

AllUrban
14-01-2010, 05:38 PM
....and that could be only the beginning. during this was announced it was also mentioned that more "taxes for foreigners" could follow.
no wonder many choose to stay here illegal...no taxes, no extra taxes :D :p

me, having to pay more for petrol soon, still waiting what and how they want to implement that.

funny "malaysia-boleh-fact", they will implement and announce how it works on 1st may, wow, at midnight i suppose and 1malaysia will understand the system in a split second and everything will work smooth :rolleyes:

i do not even own a car, can i get "1malaysia-petrol" when showing the registration card of the vehicle, or do i need my family to follow me to singapore, ipoh penang.. on my business trips so my wife can fill my tank :confused:me too...more public transport for me starting May 1. But still no RapidBET from Bandar Utama to Subang Jaya.

Well, moto still cheep cheep. 30 sen extra per litre for a 3.5L tank adds up to RM7.20 instead of RM6 per fill up. From May to July, I can take it.

Cheers, m

AllUrban
18-02-2010, 01:37 PM
Two new articles in the Star today about the Petrol Price scheme

Hassles, congestion and extra costs to come with new fuel subsidy scheme (http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2010/2/18/nation/5697567&sec=nation) (The Star)


Association president Datuk Hashim Othman said a bank had been appointed to manage the operation of the new fuel subsidy scheme and consumers might have to register their car registration number through the bank or petrol stations using MyKad.

He anticipated that it would take a longer time to process transactions as biometrics would be used to verify the vehicle owner’s identity through thumbprint scanning and this could lead to possible congestion at the petrol stations.

We are in the dark over new petrol pricing, says association (http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2010/2/18/nation/5697568&sec=nation) (The Star)


“We are still unsure on the type of car owners who will qualify for the subsidy,” he said.

The source said that the latest information obtained by the association hinted that 2,000cc and above vehicles and company-owned cars would not be entitled to the subsidy.

Under the new system, each motorist was only eligible to one subsidy, he said.

“You can have a garage full of cars registered under your name but only one car will be entitled to it,” he said.

Just passing the information on. It sounds to me as if this is going to be a very complicated solution. Better to just float the petrol price and give the majority of people their money back at two times in the year:

1. when they pay their road tax
2. when they file a tax return.

Another solution for the lower-income people who are driving smaller cars - Put the RM0.30/L saved into an account in their name...so they can withdraw the money as they need to. Think of it as a national savings & loan scheme.

Cheers, m

Sentinel
18-02-2010, 01:46 PM
Like I said earlier in the thread, AllUrban, those flers at Putrajaya want the population to look at them as problem-solvers and thinkers but unfortunately they went about making things more complicated. Maybe CSKok is right, its not Keep It Short and Simple (KISS), Keep It Simple, Stupid! That should be the msg to those living in the dreamworld in Putrajaya!

If you have ever sat through one of those "Jawatankuasa" meetings in Putrajaya, you can see every Penagarah trying to out-do the other by giving long-winded but impractical ideas but when come to "siapa bikin?"... semuanya diam-diam sahja! After 2 rounds of Kopi-O and kueh-mueh being served, there will be no solution. Such are the Jawatankuasa meetings in Putrajaya. But the new office complexes and the airconditioning and the furnishings are so plush I also don't mind dilly-dallying cakap banyak but tadak buat kerja meetings...

AllUrban
18-02-2010, 02:25 PM
Like I said earlier in the thread, AllUrban, those flers at Putrajaya want the population to look at them as problem-solvers and thinkers but unfortunately they went about making things more complicated. Maybe CSKok is right, its not Keep It Short and Simple (KISS), Keep It Simple, Stupid! That should be the msg to those living in the dreamworld in Putrajaya!

If you have ever sat through one of those "Jawatankuasa" meetings in Putrajaya, you can see every Penagarah trying to out-do the other by giving long-winded but impractical ideas but when come to "siapa bikin?"... semuanya diam-diam sahja! After 2 rounds of Kopi-O and kueh-mueh being served, there will be no solution. Such are the Jawatankuasa meetings in Putrajaya. But the new office complexes and the airconditioning and the furnishings are so plush I also don't mind dilly-dallying cakap banyak but tadak buat kerja meetings...been there, done that...ate the curry puffs too.

Cheers, m

CS Chua
18-02-2010, 04:09 PM
Personally, the government should just remove the subsidy completely but place no tax on it. Cost price, if you want to call it. In return:

1. They should remove all road tax from all cars.
2. They should remove all toll roads within city areas
3. They should remove all import duties on vehicle spare parts
4. They should remove all excise duties on all cars
5. They should allow all gas companies to sell LPG so that it is easily available.

If they do that, many like me will be happy to allow the price increase.

AllUrban
18-02-2010, 04:15 PM
Personally, the government should just remove the subsidy completely but place no tax on it. Cost price, if you want to call it. In return:

1. They should remove all road tax from all cars.
2. They should remove all toll roads within city areas
3. They should remove all import duties on vehicle spare parts
4. They should remove all excise duties on all cars
5. They should allow all gas companies to sell LPG so that it is easily available.

If they do that, many like me will be happy to allow the price increase.I agree with all the points except #2, and then only a minor change.

There is a need for some toll roads and congestion pricing.

The main problem is that the current structure of toll roads, railways schemes, even subsidy solutions - everything is all planned exclusively, not holisitically and not completely. Government departments and agencies are still operating in silos and then you have the companies operating in their own silos as well.

Unfair competition & overregulation is just not working

Cheers, m

tupai
18-02-2010, 04:21 PM
Personally, ..., many like me will be happy to allow the price increase.

this bolehland gomen dont give 1flying hoot about u happy or not lah!

We just suck it up, pay for this higher price inconvenience else take a bus. Or walk... :(

me? i run a bizz, so i will merely pass the higher cost (tangible COG as well as intangible) back to my clients, who will pass it back to the blursotong rakyak, who will continue to vote for this-smart-this-smart-that gomen.

Does it look like i care??? :rolleyes: Think again.

Yang Bagi balik latotupai :D

Sentinel
18-02-2010, 04:50 PM
The last exercise when the gomen gave out RM625 for each vehicle below 2,000 c.c. as fuel subsidy, Pos Malaysia Berhad made a commission of RM40 million disbursing the sum.... and Pos Malaysia was then linked to the infamous Son-In-Law lah....

This coming complicated two-tier pricing, I wonder who will be making the money? Thats Bolehland! Somebody makes the big bucks while the rakyat jelata semua pi mampus!

starrnorth88
19-02-2010, 01:04 AM
To have a ruling that only one car per owner is allowed to have petrol subsidy is totally unfair and sure victimisation.

Each car has its own identify and existence Each car got own ownership card, own road tax, own insurance. As such each car should be equal to all other cars.

Each car is taxed separately with its own excise tax, sales tax and whatever type of tax they can think of. So why it cannot have its own petrol subsidy ?

Each car park on the roadside has to pay parking fees, has to pay its own toll just like any other car. So why no petrol subsidy for the second car ?

each car also have to pay its own fine for traffic offences.

Imagine that if only one car can have subsidy, how about only one car need to pay for tax, pay for parking etc. The second car no need to pay tax, no parking fees, no need to pay fine.....

I cannot think of a government that is promoting TRANSFORMATION can come up with such complicated scheme. It should be making life simpler without unnecessary restriction and encumberances.

Sentinel
19-02-2010, 01:16 AM
The government is giving subsidy - i.e. bantuan - and not wealth distribution lah... one car is a necessity, many cars is a luxury and you do not need subsidy i.e.bantuan.

USJ27Resident
19-02-2010, 01:20 AM
Forget about KISS... Keep It Simple, Stupid !!

Just SUAP... Shut Up And Pay !!! [ New Gomen Policy !!] *patent pending :p

starrnorth88
19-02-2010, 01:24 AM
The government is giving subsidy - i.e. bantuan - and not wealth distribution lah... one car is a necessity, many cars is a luxury and you do not need subsidy i.e.bantuan.

Imagine a family with 2 children studying in college, and buying cars for them to drive to college. They cannot qualify for loan since no income so it has to be under parents name, even for second hand cars.

1. Burden of private college education because of you know why
2. Burden of paying more for petrol because no bantuan

seems to be a burdening government

ivanhow
19-02-2010, 01:27 AM
I support this idea (subsidy thru tax exemption) too...
btw, lots of Malaysian don't even up to the income level to start paying tax...
but those low income families will really suffer from the free floating petrol price...Agree... via tax exemption wud be the easiest way to go. Now, those with very little or no income to declare paying tax will then have no tax to deduct from. Question is: "Will gamen hand out the subsidy in the form of cash or cheque?" By right, it shud lar... if declared in the income tax form, right?


on the other hand, gov can't just withdraw the subsidy and put the money to some unknown places (like the RM2.70 petrol price hike and the RM44b saving from subsidy went MIA)...
they need to do something with the saving for the good of the low income families (like improve the public transport system)...We all know the RM44b savings all is talk... talk.. talk only... there is no clearcut account that gives the figure. All it goes is into the National Budget figures. And how much did our PM dish out for the stimulus package in 2009? Was it RM62b? How much of that RM62b goes into the public transportation?

starrnorth88
19-02-2010, 01:27 AM
Forget about KISS... Keep It Simple, Stupid !!

Just SUAP... Shut Up And Pay !!! [ New Gomen Policy !!] *patent pending :p

Unfortunately what you say is true.

starrnorth88
19-02-2010, 01:34 AM
The last exercise when the gomen gave out RM625 for each vehicle below 2,000 c.c. as fuel subsidy, Pos Malaysia Berhad made a commission of RM40 million disbursing the sum.... and Pos Malaysia was then linked to the infamous Son-In-Law lah....

This coming complicated two-tier pricing, I wonder who will be making the money? Thats Bolehland! Somebody makes the big bucks while the rakyat jelata semua pi mampus!

Are you sure make RM40mio ? But no dividend from POS for last 2 years. How come ?

Sentinel
19-02-2010, 03:11 AM
Are you sure make RM40mio ? But no dividend from POS for last 2 years. How come ?Go and find the answer lah... everything you oso ask us to give you answer one, where can, right?

ivanhow
24-02-2010, 11:07 AM
So, is this two-tiered pricing going to be scrapped ?
Report from TMI here (http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/index.php/malaysia/54203-government-scraps-tiered-fuel-subsidies-for-simpler-ways-) seems to confirm a reversal of this idea.

AllUrban
24-02-2010, 02:48 PM
So, is this two-tiered pricing going to be scrapped ?
Report from TMI here (http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/index.php/malaysia/54203-government-scraps-tiered-fuel-subsidies-for-simpler-ways-) seems to confirm a reversal of this idea.sigh...m can tell you that the ministry does not have a firm idea of what they are going to do.

So here are m's suggestions that will help reduce the amount of subsidy paid by the government, help the subsidies reach the people who need it, and keep the cost of maintaining the new program low*

1) Float the price of petrol and eliminate the subsidy for cars.

Why?

>Because it is necessary for a variety of reasons

Caveats?

>Inflation and increased cost of living will burden some people

2) maintain or lower the price of petrol for motorcycles (all sizes)

Why?
>Because the target market who would actually need the subsidy are more likely to be lower income persons who are using a motorcycle
>Because motorcycle tanks can only hold 3-5 litres of petrol - making it very tough for a motorcyclist to engage in any fill-and-drain activities
>Because motorcycles are more common in rural areas so lowering fuel prices for motorcycles will be popular (political justification)
>Because Tupai will like it as all motorcycles will be treated the same when it comes to petrol prices.
>Because motorcycles use less petrol than cars

Caveats?
>Petrol stations will have to set up separate motorcycle pumps - however, some stations have already done this so it isnt too much of a hassle
>Some people will fill-and-drain ... good luck to them as it would take 5 fillups of a typical motorcycle tank to half-fill the tank of a Kancil
>An increase in the number of people using motorcycles could lead to increased numbers of injuries & deaths - so an investment in road safety education & enforcement will be needed to parallel the lowered cost
>lower income groups may also drive small cars like Kancil/Kelisa, etc. This problem will be covered in Point 3


2) Fuel Rebate system for automobiles of 1000cc-2500cc

The owners of automobiles with engine capacity of 1000-2500cc will receive rebates of RM500-800 when the owner renews the road tax, for a period of 5 years. The actual amount will be determined based on a sliding scale, with smaller rebates for those with engines of RM2000-2500cc


Why?
>Because the majority of vehicle owners drive cars with increasingly smaller engine displacement
>Because there is a large number of people who drive older cars that have engine displacement greater than 2000cc but not many greater than 2500cc
>Because this will create additional incentive for drivers to purchase smaller cars and drive more efficiently
>Because the amount of rebate can be reduced over a gradual period of time.
>Because someone can get commissions through POS Malaysia*

Caveats?
>Some drivers will simply purchase cars to take advantage of the rebate. Let them do it
>Many drivers will face additional out of pocket costs
>Unscrupulous people may attempt to exploit the rebates and take them from people - enforcement and education should help here.


3) Increase to amount of Basic Personal Income Tax deduction & Tax Rebate

Malaysians can file an income tax return to claim additional money from the government which will cover their additional costs from the floating of petrol prices. The basic personal income tax deduction will be raised by RM500-1000. Also, all Malaysians with a valid driver's license who have less than RM30,000 in net income can qualify for a petrol rebate (money from the government).

Why?
>This would encourage more Malaysians to file tax returns
>All Malaysians would receive a savings on their income taxes (for those who are paying tax)
>Those from the lower-income group would receive rebate cheques from the government, which will act to raise their net annual income.
>The rebate cheques received as cash would be set at a lower value while those invested into a government savings scheme could be assigned a higher value (example - if you take cash you get RM500 but if you take investment you get RM1000)

Caveats?
>Many Malaysians do not pay income tax or file tax returns - the solution for this is education
>Many people will make false claims - the solution here is education & enforcement
>Some people will spend the money unnecessarily - the solution here is education

*No matter how simple and effective the system can be, there is an expectation to allow for some 'leakages' due to general inefficiency & other factors.

Ok, so that is what I would do if I were the Minister of Domestic Trade & etc.

I would also suggest that the government look into reducing the number of toll expressways, and the road tax and tariffs on foreign cars but that is another topic.

Any thoughts?

Cheers, m

Rhiga
24-02-2010, 02:53 PM
Any thoughts?

Reduce INCOME TAX.... :( :mad:

AllUrban
24-02-2010, 04:25 PM
Reduce INCOME TAX.... :( :mad:that is a good idea but that would be a more general economic solution...as it would increase competitiveness for Malaysia in the ASEAN region.

But generally, increased competitiveness only happens when business taxes are lowered...not personal income taxes.

Cheers, m

Sentinel
24-02-2010, 07:19 PM
Reduce INCOME TAX.... :( :mad:That doesn't work because a huge majority of wage earners (read: gamen servants) are not in the tax bracket so they tak dapat sabsidi mana boleh? Secondly, most rural folks don't even have income tax files so tak dapat sabsidi through the income tax reduction, mana boleh? So how? Free float the pump price of oil and let the market price dictate the pump prices lah, ada berani?

USJ27Resident
24-02-2010, 08:07 PM
sigh...m can tell you that the ministry does not have a firm idea of what they are going to do.

*No matter how simple and effective the system can be, there is an expectation to allow for some 'leakages' due to general inefficiency & other factors.

Ok, so that is what I would do if I were the Minister of Domestic Trade & etc.

Cheers, m

Sheeeesh!! See... if only we can we get that 1PM to get you a senatorship... then put you up as a Minister... in charge... after all, he DID grab Idris Jala (probably the best person that had helmed MAS, after Tan Sri Aziz..)

Dunno what current Domestic Trade Minister doing... probably busy being domesticated at home !! :rolleyes:

currymee
25-02-2010, 08:09 AM
That doesn't work because a huge majority of wage earners (read: gamen servants) are not in the tax bracket so they tak dapat sabsidi mana boleh? Secondly, most rural folks don't even have income tax files so tak dapat sabsidi through the income tax reduction, mana boleh? So how? Free float the pump price of oil and let the market price dictate the pump prices lah, ada berani?

Absolutely CORRECT :) Every decision made is political by nature - hence short-term expediency .... long term, country going down the drain fast ..... :mad:

zinglicious
25-02-2010, 09:32 AM
Well, here comes the flip flop. My Kad may not be in the 2 tier scheme.
http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/articles/20100225073827/Article/index_html

ivanhow
25-02-2010, 09:38 AM
sigh...m can tell you that the ministry does not have a firm idea of what they are going to do.

So here are m's suggestions that will help reduce the amount of subsidy paid by the government, help the subsidies reach the people who need it, and keep the cost of maintaining the new program low*

1) Float the price of petrol and eliminate the subsidy for cars.
2) maintain or lower the price of petrol for motorcycles (all sizes)
2) Fuel Rebate system for automobiles of 1000cc-2500cc
3) Increase to amount of Basic Personal Income Tax deduction & Tax Rebate
Ok, so that is what I would do if I were the Minister of Domestic Trade & etc.

..Any thoughts?

Cheers, m
Great ideas, and suggestions! :)
I'm sure someone will steal some of your ideas here and get it implemented. Hence u dun get a chance to be our Minister of Domestic Affairs :p !



I would also suggest that the government look into reducing the number of toll expressways, and the road tax and tariffs on foreign cars but that is another topic.This may take another 5 years! :D

Rhiga
25-02-2010, 11:11 AM
That doesn't work because a huge majority of wage earners (read: gamen servants) are not in the tax bracket so they tak dapat sabsidi mana boleh? Secondly, most rural folks don't even have income tax files so tak dapat sabsidi through the income tax reduction, mana boleh? So how? Free float the pump price of oil and let the market price dictate the pump prices lah, ada berani?

But every time when my hard earned money go to the drain (tax office), I am very disturbed psychologically.

A simple rule of thumb, we pay an average of two months salary or higher to the gomen every year.

And we get nothing except tons of injustice, biasness, unfairness and discrimination……

@#?/*$$

AllUrban
25-02-2010, 11:34 AM
That doesn't work because a huge majority of wage earners (read: gamen servants) are not in the tax bracket so they tak dapat sabsidi mana boleh? Secondly, most rural folks don't even have income tax files so tak dapat sabsidi through the income tax reduction, mana boleh? So how? Free float the pump price of oil and let the market price dictate the pump prices lah, ada berani?agreed...that is why I would suggest that they keep the price for motorcycles low...for at least 5 years. Rural lower income people are quite likely to use motorcycles.

Also, the government is going to have to go and encourage rural residents to start filing income tax returns...which means more hiring at the Rural & Regional Development Ministry & LHDN (Inland Revenue Board) ....

The safety issues related to increased numbers of motorcycles on the roads also means more road safety campaigns and employees at JKJR (Road Safety Department) and JPJ.

Remember what I said about allowing for some 'leakages' :p

Cheers, m

AllUrban
25-02-2010, 11:36 AM
But every time when my hard earned money go to the drain (tax office), I am very disturbed psychologically.

A simple rule of thumb, we pay an average of two months salary or higher to the gomen every year.

And we get nothing except tons of injustice, biasness, unfairness and discrimination……

@#?/*$$Maybe we need something like Malaysian Taxpayer's Federation to comment on tax-related issues, government spending etc.

One example is the concept of Tax Freedom Day...the first day in the year when you are finally working to pay for your own expenses (assuming that from the beginning of the year you are paying taxes first).

Based on the 2 months rule of thumb described above, we are just getting to tax freedom in early March in Malaysia. In Canada TFD is in May or June. In Norway TFD is in August (as I recall).

Cheers, m

misoray
04-03-2010, 04:16 PM
Govt officially scraps plan for two-tier restructuring of fuel subsidy, no price increase for now: Domstic Trade Minister/STAR

tupai
04-03-2010, 04:40 PM
Govt officially scraps plan for two-tier restructuring of fuel subsidy, no price increase for now: Domstic Trade Minister/STAR


sure or not?Gomen calling the petrol companies tomorrow for a meeting lah. staring at 10sen increase!:eek: :eek: AHHHH!..another 6% cost escalation! :eek: :eek: :eek:

I am gonna be upping 10% to my vegetables & fish price to u leow! :D

Yang Berprofiteering latotupai :D

P/s I say FREE FLOAT the petrol price and gimme rebates & lower taxes! :)

mick123
04-03-2010, 06:10 PM
announced in the radio that there will be no price increase for the time being.........of courselah state elections coming up, what to expect....

but wait, should we be happy coz the gomen "finally listens" to the rakyat or should we feel sad coz we have a gomen that flip-flops everytime and doesn't know what it is doing :confused: :confused:

personally, i'm all for free float....

VeeJay
04-03-2010, 07:40 PM
aaik...didnt you guys read the tier system had been scrapped, and instead, gas price will be increased gradually, there should have been one on March 1st but I guess delayed....but it will be soon.

Sentinel
04-03-2010, 09:59 PM
The electricity and power price hike was put on hold last week and the petrol price increase of 10 sen per litre effective 1st March was also put off.

That time, me thought that MP for Balik Pulau Zahrain Hashim, MP Nibong Tebal Tan Tee Beng, MP Kulim Bandar Zulkifli Noordin and MP Bukit Bintang Wee Chee Keong were to trigger 4 by-elections at one go but instead 2 of them frogged across to become 'independents'...

So, all the prices are going up soon, just fasten your seat belt for a rough ride for the Year of the Tiger. Malaysians are being taken for a ride again by their leaders.... How can an oil net exporter be paying so much for its fuel pump price? Can you imagine when come 2012 we become a net oil importing country? Or when your 'big brother' get voted in for another new term as the federal government? Kaputlah...

Here a ten sen,
There a ten sen,
Everywhere a ten sen...
Old McDonald has a farm
Yee-ah yee-ah oh...
And in his farm he has a .....

kwchang
05-03-2010, 12:40 AM
...Can you imagine when come 2012 we become a net oil importing country?....
I did hear from a friend that there is a strong likelihood that there are still plenty of oil under our soil... so I am waiting to see if 2012 will prove it right or wrong :D

Sentinel
05-03-2010, 12:53 AM
I did hear from a friend that there is a strong likelihood that there are still plenty of oil under our soil... so I am waiting to see if 2012 will prove it right or wrong :D.Most of the oil wells, in fact all our oil wells, are found off-shore. I have not seen a "nodding donkey" like those seen inland in Texas or even nearby in the town of Seria in Brunei on Malaysian soils. I have my doubt because Petronas is pouring billions into Iraq, Iran, Uzbekistan, Nigeria etc. If there is any sign of the black gold below the ground, trust me, with the elections coming and the national coffers allegedly running dry, fat mama would have started a RM2 company and bid for for the concession. If the ants are not clamouring, I don't think the sugar is there man...

usehead
05-03-2010, 07:20 AM
I think solar power is the way to go for Malaysia, shich is situated in the equador. Rich of sunlight throughout the year.

Why we are not heading there?

zinglicious
05-03-2010, 07:31 AM
I think solar power is the way to go for Malaysia, shich is situated in the equador. Rich of sunlight throughout the year.

Why we are not heading there?

By the time Malaysia rely on Solar power, politicians would not be afford to wear NIKE shoes and singing the slogan of Just Du It! :D :rolleyes: :D

currymee
05-03-2010, 08:24 AM
Why worry so much, if the Aztec is correct, 2012 - SEMUA BUNGKUS, ALL DIE liow - so only got less than 1,000 days left TO MAKE LOVE and NOT WAR !!! :D

zinglicious
05-03-2010, 08:36 AM
Then our Proton Emas how ah? It suppose to be roll out from the TG Malim factory for export when the oil runs out?

currymee
05-03-2010, 08:37 AM
Then our Proton Emas how ah? It suppose to be roll out from the TG Malim factory for export when the oil runs out?

Emas will be modified to RUN ON HOT-AIR or cow-dung i.e. BS .... :p

jan tomaswaki
05-03-2010, 08:51 AM
Then our Proton Emas how ah? It suppose to be roll out from the TG Malim factory for export when the oil runs out?

Oil still got plenty,but oil drums-STOCK HABIS .All gone to G n G in USJ/SJ :D

cml
05-03-2010, 10:50 AM
I think they are callling the whole thing off because they cannot make it work technically. The costs to implement and control it would be prohibitive and that's when suddenly they had cold feet despite having spend a lot of money to start it up. Nobody had any thoughts on the implementation or how difficult it would be. Our politicians do not have the reputation of having too much grey matter unlike their counterparts from south of the border. Here they are all good a stirring up religious and racial sentiments and lining their own pockets, thats what they are good at, very good at. In the name of having listened to the rakyat they bid a hasty retreat. Like the chinese say die already also want to hold on to a handful of sand!!

jan tomaswaki
05-03-2010, 12:19 PM
I think they are callling the whole thing off because they cannot make it work technically. The costs to implement and control it would be prohibitive and that's when suddenly they had cold feet despite having spend a lot of money to start it up. Nobody had any thoughts on the implementation or how difficult it would be. Our politicians do not have the reputation of having too much grey matter unlike their counterparts from south of the border. Here they are all good a stirring up religious and racial sentiments and lining their own pockets, thats what they are good at, very good at. In the name of having listened to the rakyat they bid a hasty retreat. Like the chinese say die already also want to hold on to a handful of sand!!
Ai yah mati lah saya and currymee,as we just sign a MOU with EXXON to supply oil drums to F n G.Now how ?

usehead
05-03-2010, 01:56 PM
Malaysia is so sunny.

How I wish Proton Emas a hybrid car that could runs on Solar as well.

cml
05-03-2010, 05:02 PM
if the car can run on bull ****e then it can take us to the moon since we have so much of it flying around from the politicians