USJ2 GnG (against)

[jan tomaswaki]

[QUOTE=RolyPoly]On top of that, many streets in my part of USJ2 has no participation / attendance in any of the meeting/discussion on this GnG. It is disheartening to see the lack of participation among these residents. Despite the rise of crimes in our area, many prefer to leave the responsibility of securing their residential areas to others! We are very disappointed in the attitude of these people.

Although i don't live in Subang anymore,you must also understand that there are also many owners don't like the GnG.You cannot bulldoze thru' and tell owners you are dissapointed.Even one owner doesn't pay,don't chit them.

[jan tomaswaki]

As mentioned, usj 2 has 2700 houses/owners. Assuming only 80% agreed to this G&G, 2160xRM50=RM108K per month. Is the cost of the guards/maintenance/other MISC cost that much every month?
Wow ! RM108K can employ roughly 30 guards.Actually got 80% agree or not.

[aursong]

Is just a matter of personal opinion/choice, some people just don’t like their neighborhood to be change into a confine area and have their privacy violated.

This is the reason why I against G&G/F&G. Not the money.

For the past couple of days, it disturb me a lot to see the barrels being setup and blocking the access around USJ2. I'm in fear that not long down the road whole USJ2 would setup the fencing like in the other USJ area. :( :( :(

[Uncle Oh]

Rakyat (Budiman),

I guessed you are one of the committee member.

I had replied objection during the questionnaire period (posted back to one of the committee member on my same street). I do not see any transparency as to how many did respond to the questionnaire (out of 3,700 households), how many are for and how many are against. Or where is the web-site to get info on USJ2 GnG. Don’t tell me to attend the meeting (which I hate to say may be politically motivated). After the questionnaire, I just received a circular memo to said that the decision has been taken to start the GnG at USJ2.
I am not going to argue now the legality. Just to request communication of good transparency.
Neither am I going to speculate any conflicts of interest. Did the committee (or pro-tem) consider the following:-
1. Spending anything between RM90,000 (upwards) per month. Is it the best productive investment for the sake of security or peace of mind? Please don’t tell me “peace of mind” is priceless (like Master Card advert slogan).
2. USJ2 is a big community; the divergences make it less possible.
3. How will the project sustain, as the percentage of paying household start dwindling down? Are we then going to be left with some wire fence? Or increase the rate per household?
4. Slow down the pace of implementation in tandem with the percentage of collection?
5. I see some appeal for donation of guard house. Are we in for a charity cause?
6. Do away with the fencing first (for at least 12 months unless collection is very good). The concept of burglar alarm is the same here. There is no total prevention (of minor crime, must exclude strong arm robbery & syndicated kidnap). The main thing should be deterrence rather than cure. If there should be a motor-cycle snatch robbery by one drug-addict and drive over the drains, he will still crashed the fence. Just with guarded entrance will serve a very strong deterrence. It shall not be the intention of the unarmed guard to arrest (& hand over to police) the snatch robber.

[Uncle Oh]

Rakyat,
Definitely you have perceived WRONGLY when I mentioned about security guards taking 'full responsibility' in the course of performing their duty. I also agreed with you it is near impossible for them to guarantee zero crime in the area.

However, most of residents would like to know what theirs duty include, just to name a few,
1) nos of guards at specific locations & time of duty
2) record of traffic in/out flow during peak/low hours
3) registration vehicles nos. in/out of the designated gates

Lastly, can residents be informed about security guards activity during CNY from 12nd Feb to 20th Feb, special arrangement by Committee if any; especially during these period of time most of the residents are leaving for their HOME TOWN.


1. A car thief come with a false plate. What can taking down number plate help?
2. A pretty thief (drug-addict) come with motor-cycle, bicycle or Number 11. A vigilant trained guard can suspect & identify easily.
3. Snatcher do not come with car.
4. Big-gun is not for the guard to apprehend.
5. Kidnapper is also beyond the guard. (That why we are paying the tax to pay the underpaid police).
6. Drug addict activities are rare in USJ2, the police can advice on this.
7. White collar drug activities should not affect the neighborhood.
8. Other forms of organized crime affect not the neighborhood security but the society at large.
9. There are more expensive community of licensed Gated Community. USJ 2 was not designed for it. After GnG, are we going to installed CCTV all round to enhance security & peace of mind.
10. If there is no end to CCTV & next. As the scale go the other end, t is also not wrong to provide minimum deterrence. This is in the context of being practical to sustain the project when the % collection slide down. If the cost is lower, the cost per household can be lower to RM20 and this in turn will spur higher % collection. Why must the model & examples of other GnG be copied without modification.
11. The project has started. Do not derail it to a halt. It will be painful & ugly. Constructive suggestions should be weighted.

[thelaw48]

Dear USJ2 G2Gcommittee,
I was quite surprised, out of a sudden that you guy are started the collection. At least the residences are informed of the consensus on the following;
• What was the residences’ response? Exactly how many percent has committed.
• Are the date to implement (Feb 1) agreed upon by the residence?
• Were the residence aware that that they have to put out 3 months in advance?
• How many really agreed which exits are to be used and which to be closed? Showing the plan on the last meeting does not get the consensus and moreover there was not enough quorum.
• Who are the office bearers? Was there an election for the office bearers? Although this is voluntary, but everything are still answerable to the residence.
• Who is handling the account?
• How much are we paying the security etc?
• What is the budget for a month to keep us going? What are the contingency plan should things do not work out?
• Where the balance cash going to go?
• And so on.
Every residence have the right to know the balance sheet at anytime.

This is my personal view

[joni]

1. A car thief come with a false plate. What can taking down number plate help?
2. A pretty thief (drug-addict) come with motor-cycle, bicycle or Number 11. A vigilant trained guard can suspect & identify easily.
3. Snatcher do not come with car.
4. Big-gun is not for the guard to apprehend.
5. Kidnapper is also beyond the guard. (That why we are paying the tax to pay the underpaid police).
6. Drug addict activities are rare in USJ2, the police can advice on this.
7. White collar drug activities should not affect the neighborhood.
8. Other forms of organized crime affect not the neighborhood security but the society at large.
9. There are more expensive community of licensed Gated Community. USJ 2 was not designed for it. After GnG, are we going to installed CCTV all round to enhance security & peace of mind.
10. If there is no end to CCTV & next. As the scale go the other end, t is also not wrong to provide minimum deterrence. This is in the context of being practical to sustain the project when the % collection slide down. If the cost is lower, the cost per household can be lower to RM20 and this in turn will spur higher % collection. Why must the model & examples of other GnG be copied without modification.
11. The project has started. Do not derail it to a halt. It will be painful & ugly. Constructive suggestions should be weighted.

Anybody can give comments. Bla . . bla . . . bla . . .

One can tell scenarios of being persimistic about the Project, as if it will never succeed if the community to insist going ahead. Its going to fail, why are we started in the first place. Its kinda discouraging(others who has yet participated), how are we going to collect more money to make it a success ?

Then come the positive one i.e. to make the project sustainable, collection must increase to keep the cost low & we must not derail since it already started !

Its kinda of confused; for those who already paid the $180.00 & reluctant to participate for those who are still considering to do so.

I also noticed that, smart and experience guys knew all the possibilities; by doing this way, these will happen & by doing that way, these will can happen too.

I wish to ask a question, correct me if I am wrong, when we embarked on the Project, in between we also anticipate all these posibilities or issues, should we chose to derail it ? Should we address the issues as time goes by ? How about we improvise the plan to make it workable and feasible for the benefits of the comunity's needs.

[Uncle Oh]

Anybody can give comments. Bla . . bla . . . bla . . .

One can tell scenarios of being persimistic about the Project, as if it will never succeed if the community to insist going ahead. Its going to fail, why are we started in the first place. Its kinda discouraging(others who has yet participated), how are we going to collect more money to make it a success ?

Then come the positive one i.e. to make the project sustainable, collection must increase to keep the cost low & we must not derail since it already started !

Its kinda of confused; for those who already paid the $180.00 & reluctant to participate for those who are still considering to do so.

I also noticed that, smart and experience guys knew all the possibilities; by doing this way, these will happen & by doing that way, these will can happen too.

I wish to ask a question, correct me if I am wrong, when we embarked on the Project, in between we also anticipate all these posibilities or issues, should we chose to derail it ? Should we address the issues as time goes by ? How about we improvise the plan to make it workable and feasible for the benefits of the comunity's needs.

I have emailed to the chairman & comittee members of my views, just in case they do not read this forum. (anyway, Chairman & one comittee member email are wrong).

After I casted objection vote to the project, the project started. So, being a USJ2 resident, the best to contribute is to offer contructive suggestion, so that the project has the best chance to sustain.

The level of comfort for sense of security has to be quite a wide range of scale for a 2,700 strong households community. I just hope the committee do not impose their level of comfort for all.

Thelaw48 has asked very relevent questions on transprency & communication. I hope you can copy your comments & email to the Chairman & Comittee Members.

[rakyat]

Rakyat (Budiman),

I guessed you are one of the committee member.

I had replied objection during the questionnaire period (posted back to one of the committee member on my same street). I do not see any transparency as to how many did respond to the questionnaire (out of 3,700 households), how many are for and how many are against. Or where is the web-site to get info on USJ2 GnG. Don’t tell me to attend the meeting (which I hate to say may be politically motivated). After the questionnaire, I just received a circular memo to said that the decision has been taken to start the GnG at USJ2.

There are appox 2700 household in USJ2, we have compiled a list of the respondence of the questionaire and those who responded > 85% agreed to the FnG. As for the 'website', there is a yahoo group and a mailing group. The meeting is apolitical; we are made up of concern USJ2 residents volunteering our time to set up FnG & most of the time this fills up the agenda nothing more
I am not going to argue now the legality. Just to request communication of good transparency.
Neither am I going to speculate any conflicts of interest. Did the committee (or pro-tem) consider the following:-
1. Spending anything between RM90,000 (upwards) per month. Is it the best productive investment for the sake of security or peace of mind? Please don’t tell me “peace of mind” is priceless (like Master Card advert slogan).
This is the most cost effective system that we can think of; there were suggestion to set-up CCTV w/out guards :confused: Who is gonna monitor? There was also 'set up a security taskforce made up of volunteers' but nobody wanted to participate.
2. USJ2 is a big community; the divergences make it less possible.
That is why we need to barricade afew exit points after peak hours. The original idea was only 3 exit points; you can view the proposed map in the dewan
3. How will the project sustain, as the percentage of paying household start dwindling down? Are we then going to be left with some wire fence? Or increase the rate per household?
Feasibility study showed that we can sustain (bear minimum) if 40% to 50% of the household contribute. Additional funds will be used for maintainance work, additional guard, CCTV & fencing funds4. Slow down the pace of implementation in tandem with the percentage of collection?
5. I see some appeal for donation of guard house. Are we in for a charity cause?
Nope but some proponent of the FnG and the business owners were generous enuf to donate. I personally seen individual residents donating to the cause. Both petrol kiosk owners have also donated. All committee members have also donated to the set-up fund6. Do away with the fencing first (for at least 12 months unless collection is very good). The concept of burglar alarm is the same here. There is no total prevention (of minor crime, must exclude strong arm robbery & syndicated kidnap). The main thing should be deterrence rather than cure. If there should be a motor-cycle snatch robbery by one drug-addict and drive over the drains, he will still crashed the fence. Just with guarded entrance will serve a very strong deterrence. It shall not be the intention of the unarmed guard to arrest (& hand over to police) the snatch robber.

The perimeter fencing works out to be appox. 2.8 km (exclude the wall fronting KESAS h/w) and a layman calculation work out to be RM100k to RM150k; I initially insisted that the fencing be done 1st b/4 guard but after working out the cost it is not feasible.
FYI my house (2/2) is not covered by the current FnG & might not ever be; you can say that I'm doing charity for the bangalow & semi-dees :D

[rakyat]

Rakyat,
Definitely you have perceived WRONGLY when I mentioned about security guards taking 'full responsibility' in the course of performing their duty. I also agreed with you it is near impossible for them to guarantee zero crime in the area.
Apologize, I always ass-u-me :p

However, most of residents would like to know what theirs duty include, just to name a few,
1) nos of guards at specific locations & time of duty
2) record of traffic in/out flow during peak/low hours
3) registration vehicles nos. in/out of the designated gates

There are 2 - 12 hours shift of 1 guards per checkpoint; this will be increased to 3 guards with 1 doing patrolling duties by 12/02. At the moment they are only there to 'monitor traffic' as most residence have not used their sticker. Once the sticker is enforced, vehicles without sticker will be registered (after peak hours). We are also partial to the guard escoting the vehicle to their destination but this may proof cumbersome due to the amount of traffic into USJ2. Should fund permit we also plan in the future to instal CCTV to record the visitor's vehicle and driver.

Lastly, can residents be informed about security guards activity during CNY from 12nd Feb to 20th Feb, special arrangement by Committee if any; especially during these period of time most of the residents are leaving for their HOME TOWN.

What do you suggest? We have adjourn our weekly meeting for CNY but I can bring it up to the committee via sms or our yahoo group

[rakyat]

Dear USJ2 G2Gcommittee,
I was quite surprised, out of a sudden that you guy are started the collection. At least the residences are informed of the consensus on the following;
• What was the residences’ response? Exactly how many percent has committed.
• Are the date to implement (Feb 1) agreed upon by the residence?
• Were the residence aware that that they have to put out 3 months in advance?
• How many really agreed which exits are to be used and which to be closed? Showing the plan on the last meeting does not get the consensus and moreover there was not enough quorum.
• Who are the office bearers? Was there an election for the office bearers? Although this is voluntary, but everything are still answerable to the residence.
• Who is handling the account?
• How much are we paying the security etc?
• What is the budget for a month to keep us going? What are the contingency plan should things do not work out?
• Where the balance cash going to go?
• And so on.
Every residence have the right to know the balance sheet at anytime.

This is my personal view

Most exponent of the FnG insist on 100% ageement on the matter or 'no go' This is an impossibility as there are 2700 different household; definitely there are some household that will not agree to anything & uncontactable owners.

Houseowners not aware of FnG initiatives -
1. we started by distributing the questionaire to 'all houses'
Mayb some committee members did not do their duties, mayb questionaire lost in mail or eaten by cats
2. We distributed invitation to our community day to all household this time outsourced i.e. if you get your 'junk mail' Mydin & Giant flyers, you would have gotten it (same ppl) Ended up only 300 to 400 ppl turned up even when free food (donated by ADUN & committee members) was offered
3. 4 banners posted prominently for the past 3 months; if you drive out of USJ2 or pass the school or surau you would have passed the banners
4. Issue posted in website, forum, yahoo group, Subang Echo, USJ 2&6 RT
5. All mailers or leaflets are dual language - english & BM
6. Road rep. going house to house for the past 3-4 months explaining and collating questionaire & collection.

The committee members as a proxy to the road they represented voted the office bearers. The accounts are handled by our account committee (5 members) Balance fund are used as sinking funds for further improvement (more patrol, CCTV, fencing) and maintainance.

As for the accounts, we will need suggestion on how to inform the residents as the methods we tried does not work.

[Uncle Oh]

The perimeter fencing works out to be appox. 2.8 km (exclude the wall fronting KESAS h/w) and a layman calculation work out to be RM100k to RM150k; I initially insisted that the fencing be done 1st b/4 guard but after working out the cost it is not feasible.
FYI my house (2/2) is not covered by the current FnG & might not ever be; you can say that I'm doing charity for the bangalow & semi-dees :D

Dear Rakyat,

Thank you for your response.

1. >85% of those responded. How many of 2,700 responded? The questions posted by thelaw48 at 11:59pm on 9/1/2010 highlighted the need for more transparency & communication.
2. If you have the web group at Yahoo, kindly just provide the link.
3. I am talking about RM90,000 spent for guards cost per month. This is counter-productive for the society at large - for the sake of sense of security.
4. 40% to 50%? What happen when it drop to 20% 12-18 months down the road?
5. What about the basic equality principles ? The basic equality will not be there with 2,700 base. Why some pay, why some not paying ? Bungalows have better protection ? etc, etc
6. You put out the fence, who will tears it down when the project fails. Why not the other way ? Be morre conservative. Lower the overall cost, less guards, more effective deterrents measures, then lower the cost from RM50 per month to encourage higher % of paying households.
7. You are now without Fence, just guards, not even car stickers yet. For this CNY, check with police, compare previous years petty thefts & break-in with this year. See if the simple deterrent measure of Guards around already contributed greatly?

[Uncle Oh]

What do you suggest? We have adjourn our weekly meeting for CNY but I can bring it up to the committee via sms or our yahoo group

Dear Rakyat,

USJ 2 was not designed for GnG or FnG. It seems to be adventurous to even think ahead of future CCTV, escort visits (are we going to convert USJ2 into 5 star Gated community).

Technically, USJ2 already seperated from the main roads with limited access that allows lower cost of guard stations and much barricades.

High time for you all comittee to take a ponder & thinks of some of the less positive comments.

Do not under estimate the physiological barrier of price sensivity on RM50 per month. Very important, comfort level for sense of security is very divergent for a 2,700 strong household community.

[joni]

As for the accounts, we will need suggestion on how to inform the residents as the methods we tried does not work.

When house owners submitted their form of consent agreement to the Project and form of payment for RM180.00, all owners are suppose to give their email addresses. I think that is the best channel to keep in touch with the residents for information like,
1. traffic flow statistic
2. account details
3. new proposal
4. crime rate reported, etc etc

[thelaw48]

Dear Usj2 G2G committee,
I can speak for myself only. My comment is only my personal view. I do appreciate the people who volunteered themselves. You guys have done a lot, but by doing a lot does not mean you guys have done everything right. The only thing I have to say first is that you guys are too defensive and does not listen before responding to the comments from the residence.
I am not discouraging you guys, but you guys have obviously missed out many things here. Being a residence and not in the committee does not mean that they cannot give suggestion. I have to agree with Uncle Oh for his points; they are 100% valid pointer that the members have to learn.
For other examples, the residence have the right to know what is going on; thing such as the plan, registration number to the registrar of society or any relevant body to cover ourselves especially the part money is collected etc. Do we have any internal auditor appointed, minute of the meeting recorded and so many other things.
Residence is considered a member and they have to be informed officially before any implementation is carry out, a flyer does not work here. Member in this case has to be addressed officially at least by mail.
You have mentioned it over and over again that you guys have sent out circular, yes, I have received one and even responded, but that was the beginning and also the last of the information I received. I have signed and agreed to the G2G proposal in the form provided but it does not mean that it’s a blanket approval for the committee to do what they like.
I am only speaking for myself and I am not sure what others are thinking. Please bear in mind, suggestions are not meant to degrade the committee.

[Uncle Oh]

Most exponent of the FnG insist on 100% ageement on the matter or 'no go' This is an impossibility as there are 2700 different household; definitely there are some household that will not agree to anything & uncontactable owners.

Houseowners not aware of FnG initiatives -
1. we started by distributing the questionaire to 'all houses'
Mayb some committee members did not do their duties, mayb questionaire lost in mail or eaten by cats
2. We distributed invitation to our community day to all household this time outsourced i.e. if you get your 'junk mail' Mydin & Giant flyers, you would have gotten it (same ppl) Ended up only 300 to 400 ppl turned up even when free food (donated by ADUN & committee members) was offered
3. 4 banners posted prominently for the past 3 months; if you drive out of USJ2 or pass the school or surau you would have passed the banners
4. Issue posted in website, forum, yahoo group, Subang Echo, USJ 2&6 RT
5. All mailers or leaflets are dual language - english & BM
6. Road rep. going house to house for the past 3-4 months explaining and collating questionaire & collection.

The committee members as a proxy to the road they represented voted the office bearers. The accounts are handled by our account committee (5 members) Balance fund are used as sinking funds for further improvement (more patrol, CCTV, fencing) and maintainance.

As for the accounts, we will need suggestion on how to inform the residents as the methods we tried does not work.

Dear Rakyat,
I have wasted more than an hour searching at Yahoo Group & can only find some outdated posting. Same with Subang Echo. I have found your Chairman gmail mailbox & emailed him my earlier comments.

1. When the decision was taken end of last year to start, how many (of 2,700) voted for & how many voted against?
2. During the inaugural meeting of 300 ~ 400 people, are these representing 250 ~ 300 households? How many voted for & how many voted against?
3. The decision to get started. Was it not being hurried or pushed (or bullied) through too fast. If so, one has to doubt your apolitical statement or some traces of vested interest.
4. So, there is a feasibility study. What if only 600 household X 50 = RM30,000 per month collection? Are we going to reduce number of guards; shut-down more entry points; abandon the project (& leave USJ2 with the fence); or increase the rate?
5. Any legal binding for non-payment, even if those first voted for?
6. How do you address the issue diffrential contribution/participation for paying & non-paying household? I know of two to three bungalows owned by MPSJ at USJ2/6 that are apparently day-use only. Are they exempted?
7. Are there not already many back-lane fence & lock roads in USJ2?
8. High time you all announced the results of RM180 initial contribution (up to 31/1/2010) by circulars to resident mail box, forum, Subang Echo, or whatever (and remember to provide the web-link). Before anyone venture to forward thinking about CCTV or even guard escort for visitor to any USJ2 household. (Very weird to think of this when USJ2 houses were not sold as Gated Community).

[jan tomaswaki]

Uncle Oh & law48 is correct.2,700 units in USJ2,if 1000 units agree (non majority) you collect RM50000 .Why not bulit some pondok polis employ some guards to roda and close some entry points at midnite.For RM50K you can empoloy approx 3 guards 24hrs.I think many will agree.

[SCCheah]

Can the RA committee of USJ2 kindly tell your guards to remove the over a dozen oil drums at USJ2 (entrance to the bungalow area from Pesiaran Tujuan). I travel there very often to either pick or drop off my kids at the USJ2 day care centre.

The haphazard way the oil drums are placed is not only irritating but can also be potentially dangerous especially at night.

The police have still not acted on my report lodged about a week ago. I think I will pay them a visit again soon.

:mad:

[sivanesh69]

Siva,

One of the plus point of the GnG is the guards i.e. patrolling the area as opposed to only Gated. If and when wwe start our GnG we will not have the funds to gate up the entire outer perimeter. This will only come in phase 3 and when we have enuf support and funding (FYI it will cost appox RM100k to fence up the whole USJ2). Since there is no perimeter fencing, thief can easily slip pass the gates and patrolling guards can act as a deterant. Do you know that besides the snatch theft and parang weilding gang, USJ2 is also terrorised by a lone thief who enter houses via rooftop? He only takes currency and jewerly; how is the gate gonna stop him?


Taking into account the noise of the motorcycle, we can provide them with bicycles instead but bear in mind that USJ2 is a large residential area. We would appreciate your suggestion on an alternative & I hope it is not forming vigilante gangs coz I'll not risk my life fighting with armed robbers or sacrifice my family time walking around in the dark








The thing is, at night I don't see any proper security. If ask me I myself dont mind securing my street and another two alone. I've seen house's keep their surroundings so dark.. yea save electricity but life? such people living here with fear creates adaption whereby as a common person they will follow the others lead. I stay up til 6am to guard my own hse . Its only me n my Mother living. end the day its a duty in life.work,pleasure,family most of all safety. Hope at night nothing goes wrong. if there is, i wont hesitate to wait til that person comes to usj 2 to perform his task.

[QuietStorm]

I stay up til 6am to guard my own hse .Things are that bad over in USJ2? :eek:

[rakyat]

There have been many request for the yahoo group hence: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/usj2_community/
Do join the group as this is not only for FnG project but will act as unofficial USJ2 & RA's bulletin board for community concerns

For those who do not want to join but want to be heard, do e-mail to :
usj2_community@yahoo.com

Our official spokeperson Mr. Ng will response as best as he can (mind you he is only a student but is articulate and mature)

Siva, If i read you correctly, are you volunteering for VPU (volunteer patrol unit with PDRM & MPSJ) night duty? It won't be whole night, only 2 hours. Kudos to you.

Jan, isn't that what the FnG is about? Do you mean do away with static guards monitoring traffic? RM50k should be will employ 2 shifts of 4 or 5 guards. This is also the estimated monthly cost advised to us.

[rakyat]

Dear Rakyat,

1. When the decision was taken end of last year to start, how many (of 2,700) voted for & how many voted against?
There was no vote per say; it is based on the feedback form/ questionaire
2. During the inaugural meeting of 300 ~ 400 people, are these representing 250 ~ 300 households? How many voted for & how many voted against?
Again no vote, but our of the 300, 2 residents did voice out their concerns (objection); a majority gave encouragement, donation and purchased t-shirts as a sign of support
3. The decision to get started. Was it not being hurried or pushed (or bullied) through too fast. If so, one has to doubt your apolitical statement or some traces of vested interest.
How is 3 months of meetings, explaining to the residents, putting up notifications deemed as hurried? In fact if this was delayed any longer, the momentum would be lost and nothing would materilize. Isn't CNY the peak period for break-ins, most of our homes would be empty for days?
Yes there is vested interest - the selfish need to keep our individual household and family safe. :p

4. So, there is a feasibility study. What if only 600 household X 50 = RM30,000 per month collection? Are we going to reduce number of guards; shut-down more entry points; abandon the project (& leave USJ2 with the fence); or increase the rate?
Based on the feedback we were confident of raising RM50k per month; this is sufficient for guards manning 3 checkpoints (considered bear minimum) Additional funds would be allocated to a sinking fund in case of shortfall and for maintainence or improvement purpose. There is also a contigency plan should the fund fall below the anticipated amt. You can request for the plan from the yahoo group

5. Any legal binding for non-payment, even if those first voted for?
Nope, no obligation
6. How do you address the issue diffrential contribution/participation for paying & non-paying household? I know of two to three bungalows owned by MPSJ at USJ2/6 that are apparently day-use only. Are they exempted?

7. Are there not already many back-lane fence & lock roads in USJ2?
My backlane was fenced and locked (only 8 household contributed) but still my house and afew neighbours were broken into; locked cars parked in the porch are still being stolen
8. High time you all announced the results of RM180 initial contribution (up to 31/1/2010) by circulars to resident mail box, forum, Subang Echo, or whatever (and remember to provide the web-link). Before anyone venture to forward thinking about CCTV or even guard escort for visitor to any USJ2 household. (Very weird to think of this when USJ2 houses were not sold as Gated Community).


Good suggestion, infact I though that they would have published since we have the collection tabled in previous minutes.

IMO I would rather be 'weird' then to suffer the trauma of being robbed. When we bought our house, there were no grills too.

[Uncle Oh]

:confused:
Good suggestion, infact I though that they would have published since we have the collection tabled in previous minutes.

IMO I would rather be 'weird' then to suffer the trauma of being robbed. When we bought our house, there were no grills too.

To SCCHEAH – let the underpaid Police do more productive works for us or for themselves rather than attending to your report of oil drums obstruction. Let us all be more sociable to argue out at this Forum or Yahoo Group Forum that Rakyat said he has started. It will not be difficult, I sincerely hope, to put level minded arguments & actions to the committee.
Dear Rakyat,
Thank you once more for your reply.
1. I am asking out of 2,700 feedback form/questionnaire, how many have you all collected back? “Vote” means reply to questionnaire. If you get 1,000 reply & 850 answered support, this does not translate to >85% of residents are supportive of FnG. Worst, this does not mean you have a good chance of future 750 ~ 850 willing paying household. Sorry, I must keep asking on this basic question.
2. Why no vote or at least show of hand as vote. I get the idea of usual politically motivated meeting. Even so, 300 household (was there a resident verification process?) means less than 15%.
3. I salute you, Rakyat. You don’t see any traces of hurrying?
4. The contingency plan, just get it published lah. This is transparency.
5. It is not about articulate of Mr. Ng. It is about logic, level minded.
6. One side of the storey, Back Lane Fence, only one time contribution of < RM200. Yet, only 8 out of say 60 contributed. This is about future sustainability due to declining contribution. Why so Gun-hoo to start the fence. The other side of the storey, car stolen inside fenced gate, even with car alarm & house burglar alarm. There is no end to amount of sufficient deterrents. There is also no-end to sense of security (our friend Sivanesh69 staying up till 6 am to guard his house)
7. How do you address the issue differential contribution/participation for paying & non-paying household? Are you all just going to avoid this basic issue? Can you understand why SCCHEAH has gone to the extent of lodging a police report? It is about basic issues. Even in the case of Joint Management Committee in high-rise condo/apartment. The government took so many years to enact a law. So many years to get in started. Yet at the current stage of enforcement, any survey will show less than 50% overall collection.
8. Do not just table in committee meeting on the collection. Get it published & circulated or even advertised. Do not just said “you can request for a copy” or “a copy is available for public viewing”.
9. You all have coined the correct word of “contribution”. This in itself traced to ”charity” methodology. Charity can be for orphanages or drug re-habitation centers. Applying it to comfort level for sense of security?

[jan tomaswaki]

Jan, isn't that what the FnG is about? Do you mean do away with static guards monitoring traffic? RM50k should be will employ 2 shifts of 4 or 5 guards. This is also the estimated monthly cost advised to us.

I miscalculate,RM50K for 13 guards ( RM3800 per month-24 hrs)just to ronda while midnite close some roads that seems viable. I think SCCheah will agree
to that.Show to all others FnG,USJ2 can do it without fencing and blocking the road, yet crime can reduce.I am sure you can get good support!Look at SS2/39 area,take a tour ,maybe you can learn a thing or two from them.Mind you those house are more expensive than USJ2,my unit, land area is 70'x80'.

[SCCheah]

Yes Jan,

I think the guard ronda on bikes or bicycles are more viable.

Another method is to buy CCTV cameras and place them on high metal posts at strategic spots. As mentioned in earlier comments some people may say that these cameras can also be stolen. True, anything can be stolen but this is just a suggestion. I have said I am ready to contribute to the purchase of these cameras.

If you place them at strategic places eg say in my USJ 4/1 area- one good place is next to the shop houses- high visibility or at road junctions. Guards can look out for these cameras.

Section 5 in PJ have such cameras and big posters of the Rakan Cop (with big eyes staring at you). They don't have fencing or oil drums but a few gantries that's all- doesn't inconvenient anyone.

For your information, some developers/companies like Brunsfield are into the Safe Street concept for their commercial as well as residential projects. Their big commercial project near Ara Damansara will have a Safe Street concept with lots of CCTV cameras.

These CCTV cameras can be controlled from the guard house. Guard house and guard patrols are tolerable but not oil drums, hijacking public roads, fencing, barbed wires etc.

These are just some suggestions but mind you personally I don't trust those foreign guards at all and I put on record I will also not subscribe to such security services, not because I want to save the RM50 a month. I gave the suggestion of guard patrol as a better alternative than fencing up our neighbourhoods like a prison. I am prepared to pay for the cameras but I don't trust the guards as I have said we may end up like the maid's issue- over dependence on others and later we get all sorts of problems.

The government should recall retired police officers to do administrative work and release the younger cops to patrol the streets.

BTW it won't waste much of their time attending to my police report or go along with me to view the spot where the oil drums are. Let's not pamper them.

Thanks.

[Uncle Oh]

Yes Jan,

I think the guard ronda on bikes or bicycles are more viable.

Another method is to buy CCTV cameras and place them on high metal posts at strategic spots. As mentioned in earlier comments some people may say that these cameras can also be stolen. True, anything can be stolen but this is just a suggestion. I have said I am ready to contribute to the purchase of these cameras.

If you place them at strategic places eg say in my USJ 4/1 area- one good place is next to the shop houses- high visibility or at road junctions. Guards can look out for these cameras.

Section 5 in PJ have such cameras and big posters of the Rakan Cop (with big eyes staring at you). They don't have fencing or oil drums but a few gantries that's all- doesn't inconvenient anyone.

For your information, some developers/companies like Brunsfield are into the Safe Street concept for their commercial as well as residential projects. Their big commercial project near Ara Damansara will have a Safe Street concept with lots of CCTV cameras.

These CCTV cameras can be controlled from the guard house. Guard house and guard patrols are tolerable but not oil drums, hijacking public roads, fencing, barbed wires etc.

These are just some suggestions but mind you personally I don't trust those foreign guards at all and I put on record I will also not subscribe to such security services, not because I want to save the RM50 a month. I gave the suggestion of guard patrol as a better alternative than fencing up our neighbourhoods like a prison. I am prepared to pay for the cameras but I don't trust the guards as I have said we may end up like the maid's issue- over dependence on others and later we get all sorts of problems.

The government should recall retired police officers to do administrative work and release the younger cops to patrol the streets.

BTW it won't waste much of their time attending to my police report or go along with me to view the spot where the oil drums are. Let's not pamper them.

Thanks.

I just enrolled to Yahoo Group, many silly steps though.

Go to this web-link.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/USJ2_Community/

Similarly, so Mr. Ng (official spoke-person) at USJ2_Community Group, he should browse often those posting at this Forum & other similar forum. :D

[joni]

Can the RA committee of USJ2 kindly tell your guards to remove the over a dozen oil drums at USJ2 (entrance to the bungalow area from Pesiaran Tujuan). I travel there very often to either pick or drop off my kids at the USJ2 day care centre.

The haphazard way the oil drums are placed is not only irritating but can also be potentially dangerous especially at night.

The police have still not acted on my report lodged about a week ago. I think I will pay them a visit again soon.

:mad:

Its nothing to loose for traffic entering USJ2 from Persiaran Tujuan, making LEFT turn (instead of RIGHT) for their journey into any where in USJ2 residential area.

Be fair to the RA Committee and the USj2 community, we just get our GnG Project started. Why want to involve Police about removing the oil drums ? Why want to disarray the Guards from performing their duty ?

God is fair to all !

[joni]

The project already started 2 and approaching 3 weeks. I hope the community can start a new beginning after CNY celebration.

To begin with, maybe they can inform their fren about the Project and encourage them to join the club. Create awareness among neighbours, those they meet at the parks, Masjid or nearby business centre.

For those who still mentioned about NOT officially inform of GnG Project, I hope RA Committee can send out email give in to inform accordingly.

Equip themselve with positive thinking by spreading the benefits of the project, I am sure rate of participation will increase, collection will increase, follow by increased nos of guards and even we can get the fence up earlier than expected.

Stop posting any negative thought about the Project if we want the Project to suceed.

Disregard of which school of thought you belong, it is a fact that " Sucess bring benefits, Failure bring misery".

[SCCheah]

joni. How can you say be fair to the RA committee? Who are these people who can blatantly hijack public roads and cause not only inconveniences to members of the public out of their own selfish interest but also endanger lives?

Unless you haven't read my earlier comments, I nearly crashed into these oil drums one night recently and that prompted me to lodge a police report.

I am sure you are familiar with how the oil drums are stacked there. People swerve left and immediately turn right but now one has to make a U-turn to get to the right.

There are also no lights at night. How can you people do such a thing in the name of protecting your own safety? What about the safety of others??!


How can you demand that members of the public including USJ residents to stop posting negative comments or remarks?

What you all are doing are not only wrong and illegal but downright dangerous!! :mad:

[sivanesh69]

Things are that bad over in USJ2? :eek:


We dont live til hundred so I dont mind being up for an Old lady (my Mother) at home. Im alone means i be waiting with some equipment ;)

[maxout]

.....I think the guard ronda on bikes or bicycles are more viable.

Another method is to buy CCTV cameras and place them on high metal posts at strategic spots. As mentioned in earlier comments some people may say that these cameras can also be stolen. True, anything can be stolen but this is just a suggestion. I have said I am ready to contribute to the purchase of these cameras.

If you place them at strategic places eg say in my USJ 4/1 area- one good place is next to the shop houses- high visibility or at road junctions. Guards can look out for these cameras.

Section 5 in PJ have such cameras and big posters of the Rakan Cop (with big eyes staring at you). They don't have fencing or oil drums but a few gantries that's all- doesn't inconvenient anyone.

For your information, some developers/companies like Brunsfield are into the Safe Street concept for their commercial as well as residential projects. Their big commercial project near Ara Damansara will have a Safe Street concept with lots of CCTV cameras.

These CCTV cameras can be controlled from the guard house. Guard house and guard patrols are tolerable but not oil drums, hijacking public roads, fencing, barbed wires etc.

These are just some suggestions but mind you personally I don't trust those foreign guards at all and I put on record I will also not subscribe to such security services, not because I want to save the RM50 a month. I gave the suggestion of guard patrol as a better alternative than fencing up our neighbourhoods like a prison. I am prepared to pay for the cameras but I don't trust the guards as I have said we may end up like the maid's issue- over dependence on others and later we get all sorts of problems.

The government should recall retired police officers to do administrative work and release the younger cops to patrol the streets.

BTW it won't waste much of their time attending to my police report or go along with me to view the spot where the oil drums are. Let's not pamper them.

Thanks.


SCCheah,

Why don't you initiate what you have just mentioned for USJ4/1 instead of just talking about it and let others/volunteers do the sweat work? Since you are so good at giving opinions, why don't you put in some voluntary elbow grease and go around your USJ4/1 neighbours proposing/starting your CCTV camera porgramme or Ronda instead of yakking ....

I don't hear you posting about starting/initiating anything for your USJ4 community- all I can see is you are just waiting to post your uninvited comments and criticisms. Why don't you start your programme and show to the rest of USJ that what you are proposing is viable and better alternative?

You sound like a NO ACTION TALK ONLY resident - NATO !!

[SCCheah]

Oh Yes, I have started doing things and I got almost 100 per cent support! No boast!

A few years ago (sorry I have to repeat this the third or fourth time), when my USJ house was burgled, I got residents of two long roads to chip in less than RM100 each to set up four back lane gates. I called for two to three meetings and each time there were only 8 to 10 residents. Probably other residents were too busy with their work or chores.

I was also at work and still found the time to check around for quotations for the back lane gates. To make a long story short, now we have four gates and residents could even go to the backlane to tend to their potted plants, do some exercise, chit chat with each other or put out their laundry to dry. But we didn't infringe on the rights of other motorists. If Telekom wants to repair wiring, the gates are opened for them etc.

I have also been scouting for the right CCTV cameras and have been driving around to talk to other residents in PJ etc to see how they set up their CCTVs. On top of that I have even spoken to my developer friends and check on the costs and feasibility. All by myself.

You see, I noticed that some forummers who are pro-FnG seem to become easily annoyed when people like me don't agree with their views.

It is not just a case of agreeing or disagreeing -everyone has a right to air their grouses and have their opinions - but the current situation has deteriorated into something potentially dangerous as in my case when my car nearly rammed into the oil drums which suddenly appeared before me at night! I was carrying my kids in the car then.

Would RA committee members compensate me if there's any damage to my car or pay the hospital bills of my kids and myself if we were injured in the accident?

Think about that. The consequences can be more far-reaching than you can ever imagine.

I got a banana recently (nice tasting) for using the word "fanatic". Now you are also name calling. I am waiting for kwchang to take some action!

[Uncle Oh]

Dear Rakyat,
I have wasted more than an hour searching at Yahoo Group & can only find some outdated posting. Same with Subang Echo. I have found your Chairman gmail mailbox & emailed him my earlier comments.

1. When the decision was taken end of last year to start, how many (of 2,700) voted for & how many voted against?
2. During the inaugural meeting of 300 ~ 400 people, are these representing 250 ~ 300 households? How many voted for & how many voted against?
3. The decision to get started. Was it not being hurried or pushed (or bullied) through too fast. If so, one has to doubt your apolitical statement or some traces of vested interest.
4. So, there is a feasibility study. What if only 600 household X 50 = RM30,000 per month collection? Are we going to reduce number of guards; shut-down more entry points; abandon the project (& leave USJ2 with the fence); or increase the rate?
5. Any legal binding for non-payment, even if those first voted for?
6. How do you address the issue diffrential contribution/participation for paying & non-paying household? I know of two to three bungalows owned by MPSJ at USJ2/6 that are apparently day-use only. Are they exempted?
7. Are there not already many back-lane fence & lock roads in USJ2?
8. High time you all announced the results of RM180 initial contribution (up to 31/1/2010) by circulars to resident mail box, forum, Subang Echo, or whatever (and remember to provide the web-link). Before anyone venture to forward thinking about CCTV or even guard escort for visitor to any USJ2 household. (Very weird to think of this when USJ2 houses were not sold as Gated Community).

Dear Abdul Rahman,

I can understand your frustration as you seem to be one of the earliest to have raised the very basic question of ">85% support".

You have approached it on the legal standing that it can not be started.

Now, that the committee has "bulldozed" (as you coined it) to start the project. Few days ago, I started the approach of questioning the feasibility & sustainability on a 2,700 strong divergent community.

Said to say, I am met with evasive & elusive answers. I do not see any courage shown to face the basic questions.

If you have the time, read

http://www.usj.com.my/bulletin/upload/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=122


Good Day
Uncle Oh
12/2/201


Dear Haji Jani,

Thanks for prompt reply.

"On GnG as List Owner, I am not privileged to answer all the questions posed directly to me so far. I leave it to one of the committee members to answer them accordingly."

I am not the only one who is questioning the basic question of "> 85% support". And this question has been posted for over a month, during which you all committee has met more than once.

I failed to understand why no point-blank answer is provided. It appears so evasive and elusive. Tell me if this is going to be a political maneuver & I will know how to act.

As List Owner, the least you can do is to alert whoever supposed to answer.


Regards
Uncle Oh

[jan tomaswaki]

The project already started 2 and approaching 3 weeks. I hope the community can start a new beginning after CNY celebration.

To begin with, maybe they can inform their fren about the Project and encourage them to join the club. Create awareness among neighbours, those they meet at the parks, Masjid or nearby business centre.

For those who still mentioned about NOT officially inform of GnG Project, I hope RA Committee can send out email give in to inform accordingly.

Equip themselve with positive thinking by spreading the benefits of the project, I am sure rate of participation will increase, collection will increase, follow by increased nos of guards and even we can get the fence up earlier than expected.

Stop posting any negative thought about the Project if we want the Project to suceed.

Disregard of which school of thought you belong, it is a fact that " Sucess bring benefits, Failure bring misery".
Dear Joni,pls be in those banglow hse till the traffic lights turning to USJ 6,at 6.45pm tonite.Do you notice the cars there are increasing five fold,just because they place the drums near the banglow.Ppl cannot take a public rd ,a short road to Summit,Usj 1,Giant....Pls have a good look....

[QuietStorm]

We dont live til hundred so I dont mind being up for an Old lady (my Mother) at home. Im alone means i be waiting with some equipment ;)Nothing is like being prepared, my friend. Good for you. :)

[joni]

SCCheah,

Why don't you initiate what you have just mentioned for USJ4/1 instead of just talking about it and let others/volunteers do the sweat work? Since you are so good at giving opinions, why don't you put in some voluntary elbow grease and go around your USJ4/1 neighbours proposing/starting your CCTV camera porgramme or Ronda instead of yakking ....

I don't hear you posting about starting/initiating anything for your USJ4 community- all I can see is you are just waiting to post your uninvited comments and criticisms. Why don't you start your programme and show to the rest of USJ that what you are proposing is viable and better alternative?

You sound like a NO ACTION TALK ONLY resident - NATO !!

How you know he is from USJ4, but then . . . GnG project is in USJ2, LOL.

For example, I have friends in USJ3, they also put oil drums here and there. Just be fair to USJ3 community, they also wanted to keep their areas safe too.

Know the situation and think rationally, I better drive carefully nextime i entrance this area. If I have to make a detour to my destination, then no choice I will do that; if it is so troublesome I will try avoid entering that area. Worst scenario, I will call my friend to meet at Taipan Kopitiam !

We can not change others, why not we change ourselves(to reduce stress).

[Naka]

To an outsider like me, all these preparations/precaution look like a war zone. :eek:

[joni]

Dear Joni,pls be in those banglow hse till the traffic lights turning to USJ 6,at 6.45pm tonite.Do you notice the cars there are increasing five fold,just because they place the drums near the banglow.Ppl cannot take a public rd ,a short road to Summit,Usj 1,Giant....Pls have a good look....

Some banglow owners applaused for the oil drums, because lately less vehicles passing through the inner ring road, less noise pollution and dust.

Actually, jam on that road is not because of oil drums. Development in USJ & Subang Jaya had increased by three fold over the last 10 years. Increased in population therefore increased of numbers of cars in these areas. Can you noticed that every house in USJ have at least 2 cars on everage, some bangalow house have 6 cars or more. But NO ONE knew that some of trunk and access road in USJ areas has never been widen for the last 20 years( if it can be widen, all tree and drains will have to go !).

Why lately we put blame on the Oil Drums.

Lately, there are many road hum constructed on inner ring roads too, you will get big shock if you don't noticed it. Should we report to Police too or should we drive carefully whenever we are on the road !

[QuietStorm]

To an outsider like me, all these preparations/precaution look like a war zone. :eek:Yes, you're right. Anytime now we'll be seeing banners proclaiming "Criminals, Enter At Your Own Risk !" and the such. :p

[kwchang]

...jam on that road is not because of oil drums. Development in USJ & Subang Jaya had increased by three fold over the last 10 years...
The reality is that Subang Jaya is right smack in the middle of all the main transportation arteries. The problem is not really with the residents (although SJ/USJ has a big enough population to be declared a city) but I believe it is the vehicles just passing through.

Although I live in USJ, I remember one day I was at Damansara and I needed to get to UNITEN in Bangi. The only logical way was to get through SJ/USJ because the easiest and quickest way to the South Kalng Valley Expressway was going right through my homebase. The Damansara-LDP route did not make sense to me because then I'd have to contend with the LDP and Puchong crawl while the way through the Sungei Besi highway was not very inviting.

[kwchang]

..Anytime now we'll be seeing banners proclaiming "Criminals, Enter At Your Own Risk !" and the such...
Actually, such banners already exist way before this GnG or FnG thing started recently. I was involved with our own neighbourhood watch before and way back then, all the NW communities got permission to put up NW signboards. Please drive to the different areas and you will see those boards still in place. They actually gave approximately the same message. Maybe some of you do not read the sign boards on the road? :rolleyes: ;) :D

[QuietStorm]

Actually, such banners already exist way before this GnG or FnG thing started recently. I was involved with our own neighbourhood watch before and way back then, all the NW communities got permission to put up NW signboards. Please drive to the different areas and you will see those boards still in place. They actually gave approximately the same message. Maybe some of you do not read the sign boards on the road? :rolleyes: ;) :DCome to think of it, I might have. :p. Anyway, what I have in mind are big huge banners, not those small insignificant metal signboards ...haha...:D.

[SCCheah]

Some banglow owners applaused for the oil drums, because lately less vehicles passing through the inner ring road, less noise pollution and dust.

Actually, jam on that road is not because of oil drums. Development in USJ & Subang Jaya had increased by three fold over the last 10 years. Increased in population therefore increased of numbers of cars in these areas. Can you noticed that every house in USJ have at least 2 cars on everage, some bangalow house have 6 cars or more. But NO ONE knew that some of trunk and access road in USJ areas has never been widen for the last 20 years( if it can be widen, all tree and drains will have to go !).

Why lately we put blame on the Oil Drums.

Lately, there are many road hum constructed on inner ring roads too, you will get big shock if you don't noticed it. Should we report to Police too or should we drive carefully whenever we are on the road !


joni, obviously you either do not drive nor do you read the comments properly. I have said umpteen times that I am from USJ4/1 area and that I nearly crashed into those silly oil drums at USJ2.

Not even a sign of regret nor concern. That speaks volume of the quality of your comments eh?
You suggested that motorists drive elsewhere etc. How can? The oil drums were put by your RA people. They hijack roads knowing full well that it's illegal. How would you feel if some jokers also place a dozen humps right in front of your house or near your house?

People cannot justify blocking roads because of their concern over their safety. Also do not just blame it on the rising traffic situation. While it is true that there are more and more cars on the road in the whole of the Klang valley and elsewhere, by placing oil drums, you are making things worse.

Remove all those obnoxious oil drums, tear down the fencing and remove the gantries and guard posts!!

[SCCheah]

Some banglow owners applaused for the oil drums, because lately less vehicles passing through the inner ring road, less noise pollution and dust.

Actually, jam on that road is not because of oil drums. Development in USJ & Subang Jaya had increased by three fold over the last 10 years. Increased in population therefore increased of numbers of cars in these areas. Can you noticed that every house in USJ have at least 2 cars on everage, some bangalow house have 6 cars or more. But NO ONE knew that some of trunk and access road in USJ areas has never been widen for the last 20 years( if it can be widen, all tree and drains will have to go !).

Why lately we put blame on the Oil Drums.

Lately, there are many road hum constructed on inner ring roads too, you will get big shock if you don't noticed it. Should we report to Police too or should we drive carefully whenever we are on the road !


Eh? Eh? Oil drums at road junctions can worsen traffic jams and even cause accidents. Why make a comparison with humps? Basing on your constant expression of "be fair" to this and that, how would you like if your immediate neighbour on your left and right put oil drums to block you off. Sounds extreme right but that follows your reasoning that people have to protect their own security too.

Then you may as well drive into the road shoulder and wriggle your way out.
Sounds illogical and absurd? But that's about the same with your argument isn't it?

[joni]

Then you may as well drive into the road shoulder and wriggle your way out.
Sounds illogical and absurd?

Some people just like to argue.
I am running out of facts to continue ... LOL :confused: :rolleyes: :confused:

Give others chance to comment too.
Maybe others can contribute better ideas :p

[Uncle Oh]

Dear Rakyat,

Thank you for your response.

1. >85% of those responded. How many of 2,700 responded? The questions posted by thelaw48 at 11:59pm on 9/1/2010 highlighted the need for more transparency & communication.
2. If you have the web group at Yahoo, kindly just provide the link.
3. I am talking about RM90,000 spent for guards cost per month. This is counter-productive for the society at large - for the sake of sense of security.
4. 40% to 50%? What happen when it drop to 20% 12-18 months down the road?
5. What about the basic equality principles ? The basic equality will not be there with 2,700 base. Why some pay, why some not paying ? Bungalows have better protection ? etc, etc
6. You put out the fence, who will tears it down when the project fails. Why not the other way ? Be morre conservative. Lower the overall cost, less guards, more effective deterrents measures, then lower the cost from RM50 per month to encourage higher % of paying households.
7. You are now without Fence, just guards, not even car stickers yet. For this CNY, check with police, compare previous years petty thefts & break-in with this year. See if the simple deterrent measure of Guards around already contributed greatly?

Dear Rakyat,

I guessed you know Mr. Ng Oon-Ee by person. Kindly help pass this message on Baisc Questions.

Dear Mr. Ng Oon-Ee,

I have asked the few basic questions.

1. How many replies to the questionnaire have been collected back? How many are supportive & how many are against?
2. How many have paid initial "contribution" of RM180 to date; or upto 31/1/2010?
3. I assumed your are the authorised Spoke-Person. Can such simple basic questions be answered first before we go into other legal arguments or academic arguments "GnG can reduce crime rate by X%?
4. Or are you the authorised Spoke-Person who is not authorised to answer "sensitive" questions?

Regards
Uncle Oh

[jan tomaswaki]

Dear Rakyat,
1. How many replies to the questionnaire have been collected back? How many are supportive & how many are against?
2. How many have paid initial "contribution" of RM180 to date; or upto 31/1/2010?
3. I assumed your are the authorised Spoke-Person. Can such simple basic questions be answered first before we go into other legal arguments or academic arguments "GnG can reduce crime rate by X%?
4. Or are you the authorised Spoke-Person who is not authorised to answer "sensitive" questions?

Regards
Uncle Oh
Sokong ! Uncle Oh, I can bet out of 2,700 hses ,not even 50% response and not even 500 hses (RM90000)paid.Eventually many also will not pay & fund s will run out soon.

[SCCheah]

Some people just like to argue.
I am running out of facts to continue ... LOL :confused: :rolleyes: :confused:

Give others chance to comment too.
Maybe others can contribute better ideas :p


My friends told me not to argue with @#$% people but if I were to remain silent they may get the impression that the pro FnG are in the majority and are right.

I am merely responding to your kind of reasoning. Got it?

You don't even realise nor admit that those oil drums are a menace and a danger to road users. You think you are absolutely right.

BTW, who said that the bungalow owners are happy with the oil drums. Do you want me to take you to one bungalow owner who is my old school mate who is disgusted with the oil drums which to him is like a war zone.

I don't think there are even 500 out of 2,700 people supporting the FnG in USJ2. Show me the figures! Paste up all the signatures with handphone numbers etc for verification purposes of the real FnG supporters in USJ2.

I am from USJ4/1. So you may ask- what business have I to do with USJ2. Why not? Firstly I am a USJ resident and I pay road tax to drive any public road. Secondly my kids' day care centre is in USJ2 and I go there everyday. Got it? Like many people we are in a rush. The oil drums are a nuisance and do not serve any purpose.

Even the day care centre operator (she operates a kindy there), is also unhappy with the ridiculous way of putting oil drums everywhere. I am beginning to feel some interest groups are behind all this!

[SCCheah]

I sokong you jan as I also don't believe there are even 200 hard core supporters of FnG in USJ2. Many will say they support but when it comes to paying they will shrink away.

Anyway, keep up the momentum to fight this injustice that is hammering down the throat of many USJ residents who are seeing our beloved township turned into a war zone.

BTW, something is brewing at a higher level but I cannot divulge at the moment. :)

[driftingrover]

God is fair to all !

yes, i believe GOD is fair to all. unfortunately some people just take things into their own hands and be "holier then thou". G n G supporters are doing what they believe is their rights without regards to the rest.

i believe my GOD must be a different GOD

[joni]

[QUOTE= i believe my GOD must be a different GOD[/QUOTE]

You are NOT wrong, we believe in different GOD.

[driftingrover]

You are NOT wrong, we believe in different GOD.

i wonder which GOD teaches us that we r different, that we r better then our neighbour, that we can do things without regards to others.

your choice of safety n security is your choice , but when u implement it through "u r holier then thou" attitude with a GnG n inconvience others, please do not take the name of thy GOD in vain.

or was it your GOD teaches u , u r no. 1?

GOD blessed , not harrassed

[Amanda]

hhahaha... i wanted to reply... tapi tak berani... sure kena shoot upside down... this threat like a war and is worst then the oil drum warzone....

some people just reject the idea just because it is inconvenience to them. it makes a lot of sense. if the current process used to be easy & somebody change the process. It cause inconveneince sure we will complaint.

[jan tomaswaki]

hhahaha... i wanted to reply... tapi tak berani... sure kena shoot upside down... this threat like a war and is worst then the oil drum warzone....
some people just reject the idea just because it is inconvenience to them. it makes a lot of sense. if the current process used to be easy & somebody change the process. It cause inconveneince sure we will complaint.

Correction, Amanda,it's just not a matter of inconvenience to them ,but the whole of USJ'rians.Like i mention before are there really 85% residents approve the "oil drums" ? ,I mean 2,295 houses . Don't insult my intellegence :D

[jumbuck]

I'm living in USJ 2 as well and I definitely do not believe that 85% agreed... I also do not believe that either MPSJ or PDRM actually vets through the list (after all, no one checked with me on what I thought about it). I think the entire process is barreled through by an aggressive minority.

Everyone is concerned about safety but I doubt this is the way. Spend the money on better locks, alarms, and get to know your neighbours. Converting the area into a militarized zone is more than an inconvenience; it is simply illegal but sadly, the governing councils appear to accept this disregard for their authority.

I only found out when someone knocked on my door to ask for my car plate numbers for stickers. I did not receive any flyers or notices, and my vote of protest was never taken into account. If MPSJ and PDRM is willing to bend the laws based on the principle of 85% agreement, at least they should check to see if 85% is truly met. Also, the 85% should be homeowners, not renters as these people are transient.

A lot of people seem to say that those protesting the gng/fng efforts are being selfish but I think doing it is selfish. Safety and security is a nationwide effort that's remedied by education, economic opportunities and equality, and a connected community. What the gng/fng efforts are doing is instead polarising and isolating communities. My community is not just my neighbours in USJ2. My friends and families live all around and the gates and barriers are not welcoming, a nuisance, and does nothing but inflate a false sense of security.

Those in this forum are but a fraction of the residents. I truly wonder if every one in USJ 2 had the opportunity to give their say. I didn't. More importantly in the current context, was 85% of approvals received and were they from qualified homeowners? I have my doubts and there is no transparency here.

[nona]

Tired of these arguements... :(

Say...Tak Nak...to FnG....it was not in my S and P ..so it goes for the rest of USJians (if everyone start modifying SnP to suit their needs...i can't begin to imagine what would happen)
Say...Tak Nak....to people who think the road in front of their house is theirs are blocking it with flower pots and what not
Say...Nak...to police making more patrols
Say...Nak...to getting to your neighbours and looking out for each other
Say ....Nak...to more PUBLIC HOLIDAYS (that just a bonus.. :D )

and for heavens sake...it is festive season....Gong Xi Fa Chai....for the good of GOD.....KISS AND MAKE UP!!! :mad:

[driftingrover]

Tired of these arguements... :(

Say...Tak Nak...to FnG....it was not in my S and P ..so it goes for the rest of USJians (if everyone start modifying SnP to suit their needs...i can't begin to imagine what would happen)
Say...Tak Nak....to people who think the road in front of their house is theirs are blocking it with flower pots and what not
Say...Nak...to police making more patrols
Say...Nak...to getting to your neighbours and looking out for each other
Say ....Nak...to more PUBLIC HOLIDAYS (that just a bonus.. :D )

and for heavens sake...it is festive season....Gong Xi Fa Chai....for the good of GOD.....KISS AND MAKE UP!!! :mad:


nona,
agree 100%

[jan tomaswaki]

nona,
agree 100%
saya pun...."tak..nak....dan 101% sokong

[Amanda]

i didnt have time to go through the threat but it seems that all the folks that rejected the idea are from neighbouring taman. USJ 4 & 3.

Where are all the USJ 2 folks who rejected the idea of GNG or FNG? Hope they can be more vocal in this forum. I personally think that USJ 2 residents should have all the rights to membantah but they seem to be very quiet.

I'm leaving in USJ2 & I dont disagree. I think it's an additional precaution. It's definitely better than nothing. Recently, posted in the SJAleart, USJ 4 is the target now. If i'm not mistaken about 2 robberies within a month.

Traffic jams? Correct me if I'm wrong, I leave the house at 7.30am & arrive home at about 6.30pm. The traffic is the same before & after. Perhaps, I'm off from the peak hour. Not sure. Can any USJ2 residents confirm on the bad traffic.

85% agreement. I'm not sure about it. I was not told about the result also but I do receive the flyers & asked to join the meetings.

I think if robbers & thiefs were to read this threat they must be laughing. :D until they choke to death. Good, civilised & educated people fight among each other. I wonder whether the community of robbers & thiefs have conflicts. Do they fight for houses to break in, which lady's handbag to snatch, which car to curi, whose daughter to rape. :D

[Joe Blow]

I have been following the communications with regard to the USJ 2 GNG both on this good forum as well as the yahoo groups community with much interest. Suffice to say that I am appalled by the unneighbour-like behaviour of many participants.

Opponents of the GNG have been belittled, ridiculed and subject to cringeworthy jabs by the proponents of the scheme. Many questions have been left unanswered despite repeated requests and remain so till this day.

Under the halo of "safety and security", proponents of GNG seem to have launched the scheme with neither the majority support of the community nor the will to obtain it.

It is not in my place to speculate as to the motivations of the parties involved, nor is it particularly constructive for anyone to do so. I will say this though:

Proponents MUST remember that they are imposing on the rights of the residents by implementing this scheme. By this token, the onus is on them to not only lawfully obtain the permission of the residents but to, perhaps more importantly, conduct their affairs with respect and humility.

Unfortunately this has not been the case thus far.

One can only speculate as to the position of the USJ 2 committee on this matter as they have largely been silent, save the representation of appointed spokesperson Mr Ng Oon Ee.

This is the same committee that a few months ago at a GNG community meeting, had one of it's members screaming at an elderly citizen to "shut up".

The time has come for some serious damage control. The ultimate objective should be to unite the community and within that, secure our homes and selves.

A gentleman by the name of En Abdul Rahman has very eloquently detailed proposed measures in his appeal to the USJ 2 forum, to which I agree fully.

I must add that although En Abdul Rahman disagrees with the scheme, his conduct has been nothing short of exemplary. It would do well for certain vocal GNG proponents to take a page out of En Abdul Rahman's book on etiquette. I believe he was introduced in these forums through the postings of Uncle Oh.

I have paid my GNG fee but I DO NOT support any position that undermines the rights of the residents in this community. You could say that I am not so much pro GNG as I am pro a Safe & Secure COMMUNITY and I have yet to be reassured that USJ 2 residents have been heard and that they do indeed want a GNG community.

Unless the USJ 2 GNG committee starts taking into consideration the will of the residents of USJ 2, I fear that whatever little goodwill that exists for it will be gone.

[RolyPoly]

I am from USJ2 and I support the GnG or better still the FnG project. Have seen too many snatch bag cases happening in USJ2. My house has also been broken in by robbers. And I always warn college students or anyone passing outside my house to be extremely careful with their bags when they were walking to SeGi College or Summit Mall. And I also join the Voluntary Patrolling Unit that patrol around USJ & SJ to prevent crime.

It surprises me why residents of other part of USJ are so vocal about USJ2 being gated & guarded. We in USJ2 are glad to have some residents taking initiatives to lead in this project. In fact I am appreciative that the GnG project actually take off 3 months after the first meeting.

To me there's no point to go around asking for 100% approval fr residents coz some residents will only sit in front of their pc and complain, complain, complain.........If you have any grouses or disagreement or suggestions for improvement, come to the meeting that is held every Sat (unless informed) at the Rukun Tetangga Community Hall (near the mosque in USJ2) and openly bring it up. Why post so many messages here? Is this the way to get things moving forward? When forms were mailed out, banners were hung in USJ2....most don't bother to read or find out more. Now you complain, complain, complain incessantly!

Ha ha ha...I am suspicious of your motives! Are you one of those who are against GnG because you are one of the robbers actively operating in USJ2 and now it is becoming more & more difficult for you to cari makan??? :D :D :D

[Joe Blow]

Hi RolyPoly,

To whom are you responding to exactly?

[RolyPoly]

Hi Joe Blow,

My comment was sent out to those who are not from USJ2 & to those living in USJ2 but couldn't be bothered with any ongoings in this community.

[Icecube]

I am from USJ2 and I support the GnG or better still the FnG project. Have seen too many snatch bag cases happening in USJ2. My house has also been broken in by robbers. And I always warn college students or anyone passing outside my house to be extremely careful with their bags when they were walking to SeGi College or Summit Mall. And I also join the Voluntary Patrolling Unit that patrol around USJ & SJ to prevent crime.

It surprises me why residents of other part of USJ are so vocal about USJ2 being gated & guarded. We in USJ2 are glad to have some residents taking initiatives to lead in this project. In fact I am appreciative that the GnG project actually take off 3 months after the first meeting.

To me there's no point to go around asking for 100% approval fr residents coz some residents will only sit in front of their pc and complain, complain, complain.........If you have any grouses or disagreement or suggestions for improvement, come to the meeting that is held every Sat (unless informed) at the Rukun Tetangga Community Hall (near the mosque in USJ2) and openly bring it up. Why post so many messages here? Is this the way to get things moving forward? When forms were mailed out, banners were hung in USJ2....most don't bother to read or find out more. Now you complain, complain, complain incessantly!

Ha ha ha...I am suspicious of your motives! Are you one of those who are against GnG because you are one of the robbers actively operating in USJ2 and now it is becoming more & more difficult for you to cari makan??? :D :D :D
I 100% support your argument! :D :D :D

[Joe Blow]

That's pretty fair in my book Rolypoly,

You have a good night now...

[Icecube]

I have paid my GNG fee but I DO NOT support any position that undermines the rights of the residents in this community. You could say that I am not so much pro GNG as I am pro a Safe & Secure COMMUNITY and I have yet to be reassured that USJ 2 residents have been heard and that they do indeed want a GNG community.
:confused: :rolleyes: :confused: :rolleyes: :confused: :p :rolleyes: :confused: Simple thing sounded complicated & its confusing LOL

[Uncle Oh]

I am from USJ2 and I support the GnG or better still the FnG project. Have seen too many snatch bag cases happening in USJ2. My house has also been broken in by robbers. And I always warn college students or anyone passing outside my house to be extremely careful with their bags when they were walking to SeGi College or Summit Mall. And I also join the Voluntary Patrolling Unit that patrol around USJ & SJ to prevent crime.

It surprises me why residents of other part of USJ are so vocal about USJ2 being gated & guarded. We in USJ2 are glad to have some residents taking initiatives to lead in this project. In fact I am appreciative that the GnG project actually take off 3 months after the first meeting.

To me there's no point to go around asking for 100% approval fr residents coz some residents will only sit in front of their pc and complain, complain, complain.........If you have any grouses or disagreement or suggestions for improvement, come to the meeting that is held every Sat (unless informed) at the Rukun Tetangga Community Hall (near the mosque in USJ2) and openly bring it up. Why post so many messages here? Is this the way to get things moving forward? When forms were mailed out, banners were hung in USJ2....most don't bother to read or find out more. Now you complain, complain, complain incessantly!

Ha ha ha...I am suspicious of your motives! Are you one of those who are against GnG because you are one of the robbers actively operating in USJ2 and now it is becoming more & more difficult for you to cari makan??? :D :D :D

Dear Roly-Poly,

It is about simple basic questions not being answered. No transparency & simple communications.

See the points put forward by Joe Blow. Not a question of proponents or opponents.

I am afraid you are wrong to state that "no points going around asking for 100% approval". En. Abdul Rahman has put forward the key legality pointers. Unless you can challenged him otherwise.

If simple questions posted in forums are not being answered, I am afraid attending any meeting in the RT Community Hall will get opponents “shut-up” (quote from Joe Blow) & uncivilly treated.

As it is, my questions may be arrogantly ignored, “re-cycle” binned. And I very much suspect that I am been black-listed and de-listed from the other forum. What a simple minded approach the committee can be? Worst, under what ill-minded directive?

For you, dear Roly-Poly, I can respect your support for FnG & fully appreciate your human desire for security comfort. I only hope that such desire is not exploited for others’ benefits. I supposed you are concerned but would give it the benefits of doubts, despite the arrogant approach of the committee.

I see you at the RT Community Hall next Saturday. Hope you will be kind enough to advise the time. :)
.

[Fang Su]

There seems to be only one person having a conversation with himself and supporting and praising himself (well, his many selves). And he has all the time in the world to write long arguments. This is schizophrenia of the most interesting kind.


:)

[Icecube]

There seems to be only one person having a conversation with himself and supporting and praising himself (well, his many selves). And he has all the time in the world to write long arguments. This is schizophrenia of the most interesting kind.


:)
Perfectly agreed with Fang Su. The only self who never differenciate the real and imaginary selves.

[RolyPoly]

Dear Uncle Oh,

I am glad that you willing to come for the meeting on Sat. Let me confirm with the committee if a meeting will be held on next Sat, Feb 28. Usually it's held from 3-5pm at the Rukun Tetangga Hall located beside the car park of USJ2 Mosque. Hope the timing is fine with you.

Let's meet up and if you have any queries, let's calmly bring it up to the committee. I am not part of the committee team but I try to pop by whenever I am free on Sats to follow the progress of this project. This is to ensure that I know where the project is heading and what I am paying for. Whenever possible, I will also help to post info or publicize activities of the GnG project.

[Uncle Oh]

Dear Uncle Oh,

I am glad that you willing to come for the meeting on Sat. Let me confirm with the committee if a meeting will be held on next Sat, Feb 28. Usually it's held from 3-5pm at the Rukun Tetangga Hall located beside the car park of USJ2 Mosque. Hope the timing is fine with you.

Let's meet up and if you have any queries, let's calmly bring it up to the committee. I am not part of the committee team but I try to pop by whenever I am free on Sats to follow the progress of this project. This is to ensure that I know where the project is heading and what I am paying for. Whenever possible, I will also help to post info or publicize activities of the GnG project.

Dear Roly-Poly,

Thank you. :)

[RolyPoly]

Hi Uncle Oh,

The USJ2 GnG Meeting will be held on this Sat, 27 Feb at 11am. Venue: Rukun Tetangga Community Hall at Jalan USJ2/4S, just beside the Car park of Masjid Al-Mukminum.

See you there this Sat.

[nona]

Ha ha ha...I am suspicious of your motives! Are you one of those who are against GnG because you are one of the robbers actively operating in USJ2 and now it is becoming more & more difficult for you to cari makan??? :D :D :D


Hi Roly Poly....did not read your post earlier...I am one of those against GnG and no I am not a robber. Neither do I think you has any business to call those whom are against GnG robbers. Either the person lives in USJ2 or not as long as living in MPSJ they have the right to speak if this 'GnG is disprupting his or hers free flow of movement

[RolyPoly]

Hi Uncle Oh,

The USJ2 GnG Meeting will be held on this Sat, 27 Feb at 11am. Venue: Rukun Tetangga Community Hall at Jalan USJ2/4S, just beside the Car park of Masjid Al-Mukminum.

See you there this Sat.

Hi Uncle Oh,

I have received an email about the cancellation of Sat's meeting to 6th March 2010 @ 2.30pm. Please inform your neighbours who wish to attend about the said meeting. Sorry for the inconvenience cause.

[RolyPoly]

Hi Roly Poly....did not read your post earlier...I am one of those against GnG and no I am not a robber. Neither do I think you has any business to call those whom are against GnG robbers. Either the person lives in USJ2 or not as long as living in MPSJ they have the right to speak if this 'GnG is disprupting his or hers free flow of movement

Dear Nona,

You have the right to protest about the inconvenience. We also have the right to set up the GnG for our safety and security. It's not fair to us who live in USJ2 to have our safety and security compromised because residents of USJ4 who access our road find their free flow of movement being inconvenienced. Please have some regards for us.

[Uncle Oh]

I will be attending. Thanks

[jan tomaswaki]

[QUOTE=RolyPoly]
You have the right to protest about the inconvenience. We also have the right to set up the GnG for our safety and security. It's not fair to us who live in USJ2 to have our safety and security compromised because residents of USJ4 who access our road find their free flow of movement being inconvenienced. Please have some regards for us.[/QUOTE

You know your writes and i also have my rights too :D please keep certain roads free flowing so you don't offend some road tax payers.

[SCCheah]

Dear Nona,

You have the right to protest about the inconvenience. We also have the right to set up the GnG for our safety and security. It's not fair to us who live in USJ2 to have our safety and security compromised because residents of USJ4 who access our road find their free flow of movement being inconvenienced. Please have some regards for us.



Correction.

It is not your right to set up FnG.

It is illegal. Period. What do you mean USJ4 residents who assess YOUR road? It's everyone's road- from as far as Penang, KK and anywhere.
You want your road, go stay in a proper GnG.

[kwchang]

Ha ha ha...I am suspicious of your motives! Are you one of those who are against GnG because you are one of the robbers actively operating in USJ2 and now it is becoming more & more difficult for you to cari makan??? :D :D :D
Although you make it as a friendly remark, it can be read as being malicious. I am sorry, this isn't the way to talk to neighbours, especially when you need to get the support of others to your FnG/GnG project

[SCCheah]

Precisely.

If you want people to understand and share your feelings, you have to voice your feelings and thoughts in a matured way and not antagonise dissidents of FnG by name calling. It will worsen things.

Nowhere in all the threads have I come across a proponent of FnG say: "We are so sorry to cause fellow residents so much inconvenience but kindly bear we us for just a bit more...Yes, I agree that we have blocked public roads...we are looking into removing it but please, oh please let us keep our guards and fencing..."

Maybe people will sympathise...but no...many of you merely whack, condemn, ridicule etc- very immature. I am sure your ADUN won't want it this way.

Instead I keep on hearing and even read a letter to the editor in the Star when a writer said people are riding on the charity of others by not paying for the security fees.

If a resident does not want the security guards etc why should he/she pay?

Also joni just challenged me to attend tomorrow's USJ2 meeting in another thread but luckily I re-read poly's comments and found that it has been postponed to March 6- see what I mean- wishy washy info. I sms a friend to attend but spotted the change and has to re-sms him.

[joni]

Precisely.
Nowhere in all the threads have I come across a proponent of FnG say: "We are so sorry to cause fellow residents so much inconvenience but kindly bear we us for just a bit more...Yes, I agree that we have blocked public roads......"


Just to make you feel HAPPY, :D :D

Take note the FnG Project was recently started, we need more time to put the necessary in place.
We are sorry to cause fellow non-residents(passing by) of the inconvenience.
Drive slowly and be careful when approaching the oil drums, your coorperation is greatly appreciated.

[azman0123]

Hi. I am a resident of USJ2and would like to voice my views of the GnG project.

I am totally against the setting up of the GnG in my area. I've been living here for the past 19 years, and wish to live here a long time. I am a pensioner.

If I had wanted to have guards and gates, I would have chosen an area like Wangsa Baiduri and the like.

Based on my understanding, a project such as this would NEED 85% AGREEMENT from the residents before there can be a GUARDED COMMUNITY. I also understand that it would NEED 90% AGREEMENT before there is a GATED or FENCED UP COMMUNITY. I've also heard that you might even need 100% AGREEMENT.

But as far as I see, and I've spoken to around 30 people about this, only TWO OUT OF 30 RESIDENTS AGREE to this project. And one of them is in the pro-tem committee for the GnG; therefore he doesnt really count.

2 OUT OF 30 is only 6.7 PERCENT. That's a 93.3% MAJORITY who are AGAINST the GnG project.

So actually, WHERE is the 85% or 90% who agreed?

If 85% agreed, you should already have 2,295 residents (out of 2,700 in USJ2) that are paying.

Have you, the organizers, heard of THE BURDEN OF PROOF? Can you show that to us? How did you get the majority? Or did you? Is it the case of JUST DO IT FIRST, and get the necessary papers later? Or do it quietly?

I know that it's only RM50. That is not the issue. I want the right to move freely in USJ2 without some guard stopping me or my relatives or my friends to come to my house. You cannot just simply block a public road and make it like it's yours. You're not the only one living here.

I've also heard that if somehow one is involved in an accident with the oil drums and everything else connected to this GnG, there are no insurance companies that will pay up for the damage. It's got something to do with you blocking public roads, and it being against the housing laws or something.

One other thing, I've seen the notices asking residents to pay up for this project, up to RM180 per house, i.e. RM30 + RM50x3 for the first 3 months.

If a break in DOES occur to a house or vehicle of a person that paid, what are you going to do about it?

IS THERE A COMPENSATION PLAN FOR ANY BREAK-IN THAT OCCUR for paying residents? Shouldn't there be one? After all they're paying for security, and there are guards posted everywhere.

Also, if 85% agreed, you'd have now already collected RM413,100 (i.e. 2,295 households x RM180). That is a HUGE SUM! There should be enough for compensation on a large scale.

I am also thinking that all these residents that agreed to the scheme should have ready and easy access to the accounts of the GnG project, so they know how their hard-earned money is being used.


On a different note, I also heard from one scared person who alleged that in one USJ area (cant remember which), that some residents' car windows were allegedly smashed because they didn't agree to the project in their area. That cant be happening, can it?

Finally, sincerely, I hope this project doesn't continue, and that we let it gracefully diminish naturally.

Perhaps those that are really phobic about the security situation is USJ2 should seriously consider moving to a more security conscious neighbourhood; maybe a development that already has guards and gates already planned and implemented; or perhaps to a condominium or apartment complex.

So please, stop hassling the rest of us. Just because you think its great for you, doesn't mean it's great for everyone else.


Thanks for reading.

[jan tomaswaki]

Thanks Azman0123 for the RM413,100 message . ;)

[driftingrover]

azman0123

u hit the nail right on the spot

[SCCheah]

Yes, please speak up everyone! Don't let people push FnG down your throat.

Don't be afraid of bananas or plantations. No ghosts there. The only ghosts are those invisible hands putting up oil drums, fencing etc.

[adamx]

Yes, please speak up everyone! Don't let people push FnG down your throat.

Don't be afraid of bananas or plantations. No ghosts there. The only ghosts are those invisible hands putting up oil drums, fencing etc.

Consent to G&G projects should be done in secret votes, not openly... who dares to oppose when someone is facing risk of retaliation later on.

[SCCheah]

Consent to G&G projects should be done in secret votes, not openly... who dares to oppose when someone is facing risk of retaliation later on.


Of course!

When it comes to actual voting, it should be by secret ballot.

I am just referring to this and other websites/newspapers etc to voice out their displeasure/objections.

<strike>However, there will be those who will vote for the FnG but when it comes to paying they will not pay. These are the real freeloaders.</strike>

<strike>Also, pro-FnG pple often accuse residents of tidak apa attitude in attending meetings. Some pple dare not attend because they fear being "watched" and "marked" by hoodlums.</strike>

Instead of debating further, the authorities should review existing FnG and fairly check whether approvals have been obtained etc.

Meanwhile, the police, MPSJ etc should remove all obstacles pending approvals. Why are they still not acting on police reports??!

<strike>BTW, the fact that RA/security stickers are placed on cars and gate pillars already single out non-FnG supporters/subscribers. Some pple join as a cheap form of paying protection money.</strike>

<strike>You should see places like Bandar Country Homes in Rawang where different areas have different symbols representing different security firms. One area has "yellow, red and black" rings symbol while up the hill, the symbol is that of a flower. Looks more like a triad gang operations.</strike>

<strike>Just before the appearance of these firms there, gate locks/gas tanks etc were stolen. Petty thefts and break-ins. Done by who? No reward for guessing.</strike>

( Admin note - unsubstantiated allegations are the views of the person who posted this and the Forum admin are not party to such views )

[kwchang]

One important rule to follow in this Forum is the need to have facts. We do not take lightly any comments that are based on hearsay or personal conjectures which may lead to misinformation.

If anyone is making claims, please do so with substantiated comments.

In the issue on GnG / FnG, we note that a number of them are organised by the residents themselves. I will not allow for any accusations that anyone is applying under-handed tactics to put fear into the other neighbours just to increase the participation.

In a fair discussion, let us apply facts and figures. The core issue of using the internet is not to believe everything to be true. This Forum had from the very beginning had a goal to promote the proper use of information on the net and we are still trying to "acculturate" (Jeff's word for it) all netizens (another Jeff word) to the best way to gain from the information superhighway

[kwchang]

...Also, pro-FnG pple often accuse residents of tidak apa attitude in attending meetings. Some pple dare not attend because they fear being "watched" and "marked" by hoodlums.
.....BTW, the fact that RA/security stickers are placed on cars and gate pillars already single out non-FnG supporters/subscribers. Some pple join as a cheap form of paying protection money.

You should see places like Bandar Country Homes in Rawang where different areas have different symbols representing different security firms. One area has "yellow, red and black" rings symbol while up the hill, the symbol is that of a flower. Looks more like a triad gang operations.

Just before the appearance of these firms there, gate locks/gas tanks etc were stolen. Petty thefts and break-ins. Done by who? No reward for guessing.

All the above are very serious allegations. Please do not convey such allegations in this Forum without substantial evidence. The Forum will not be part or accessory to such serious accusations and we stand the risk of being brought to court for such accusations.

[azman0123]

For the benefit of those that were not fortunate enough to have read the NST article dated 5th Feb, 2010, in the PROPERTIES pullout (pp 6&7), it stated the guidelines drawn up by the Selangor Housing And Property Board, with regards to Fenced & Guarded (F&G) Community Schemes:

a) The guarding of a community by a private security firm and the construction of a guardhouse without barriers can only go ahead if it receives approval from 85 per cent of the residents in the area.

b) Guardhouses must not obstruct traffic.

c) Written consent from the relevant authorities must be had prior to it being built on a road reserve or vacant lot; and

d) Vehicles must not be prevented or obstructed from entering a guarded area.

------

The 85% figure is right at the top of the requirements. And so far we believe that this has not been achieved.

I hear that they've built a guardhouse at the entry-point near USJ2/5, nearby the semi-Ds. If that's true, they should already have obtained the written consent from MPSJ & PDRM (I suppose).

------

In the same article, Datuk Dr. Wong Sai Hou (Federal Coordinator for Petaling Jaya Utara, among other titles) states that "Actually, all F&G schemes are illegal, and even some luxury residential G&G projects too as their internal roads are actually public."

Datuk Ng Seing Liong (President of the Real Estate And Housing Developers' Association Malaysia (RehDa) mentions that "The law of the country must be respected. Even if a particular community supports F&G 100 per cent, the public roads still cannot be closed up. There is no such thing as a community voting to seal off public property. Even local authorities cannot override the statutes of the National Land Code."

He goes on ".. If you want to live in a legal G&G community, go and buy a property within a landed strata enclave."

"Now, we appear like we're going back to China a few thousand years ago when all communities were behind high walls.."

Further down the article, Datuk Ng continues, ".. the security of the whole country is at stake; not merely that of an individual community. If every housing scheme is fenced up, how can people go from one place to another?"

[My comment: suppose it's not enough to fence up individual communities, next, are we going to fence up the whole USJ, or Subang Jaya? What about fencing up the whole of Petaling District? Where will it end?]

Datuk Dr. Wong further elaborates, "After staying in Taman Universiti (in PJ) for the past 20 years and enjoying freedom of movement, I am emotionally affected whenever I see areas barricaded with oil drums, fencing, barbed wires and gantries ... they remind me of the New Villages during the Emergency Years and as if we are in a state of war."

------

What does this mean? It means THE END DOES NOT JUSTIFY THE MEANS.

Don't break the law to uphold it.

[adamx]

Of course!

When it comes to actual voting, it should be by secret ballot.

I am just referring to this and other websites/newspapers etc to voice out their displeasure/objections.

<strike>However, there will be those who will vote for the FnG but when it comes to paying they will not pay. These are the real freeloaders.</strike>

<strike>Also, pro-FnG pple often accuse residents of tidak apa attitude in attending meetings. Some pple dare not attend because they fear being "watched" and "marked" by hoodlums.</strike>

Instead of debating further, the authorities should review existing FnG and fairly check whether approvals have been obtained etc.

Meanwhile, the police, MPSJ etc should remove all obstacles pending approvals. Why are they still not acting on police reports??!

<strike>BTW, the fact that RA/security stickers are placed on cars and gate pillars already single out non-FnG supporters/subscribers. Some pple join as a cheap form of paying protection money.</strike>

<strike>You should see places like Bandar Country Homes in Rawang where different areas have different symbols representing different security firms. One area has "yellow, red and black" rings symbol while up the hill, the symbol is that of a flower. Looks more like a triad gang operations.</strike>

<strike>Just before the appearance of these firms there, gate locks/gas tanks etc were stolen. Petty thefts and break-ins. Done by who? No reward for guessing.</strike>

( Admin note - unsubstantiated allegations are the views of the person who posted this and the Forum admin are not party to such views )

I agree with you, by going door to door to ask for consent to set up FnG is already a form of intimidation. This must stop at once. To me, it looks exactly like gangsters going house to house asking for protection money.

For those who have given consent and paid are then tagged and with that, we know exactly who has opposed. What will happen next to those who opposed a lucarative business is just a guess... Although no proof that harm will be made BUT it cant stop making those tagged as non-paying and non-cooperative families to worry about their safety and live in fear.

[jan tomaswaki]

I agree with you, by going door to door to ask for consent to set up FnG is already a form of intimidation. This must stop at once. To me, it looks exactly like gangsters going house to house asking for protection money.

For those who have given consent and paid are then tagged and with that, we know exactly who has opposed. What will happen next to those who opposed a lucarative business is just a guess... Although no proof that harm will be made BUT it cant stop making those tagged as non-paying and non-cooperative families to worry about their safety and live in fear.

Correct ! we all know that it is a form of intimidation like those in HK movies.Those paying pretend they don't know.In a long run all usj/sj residents are living in fear.BTW KWChang should not ban SCCheah as he is speaking his mind and it is TRUTH! What is MPSJ,the most canggih council in Malaysia,Hannah,Rajiv and relevent parties are doing...zzzzzzzzz

[driftingrover]

Correct ! we all know that it is a form of intimidation like those in HK movies.Those paying pretend they don't know.In a long run all usj/sj residents are living in fear.BTW KWChang should not ban SCCheah as he is speaking his mind and it is TRUTH! What is MPSJ,the most canggih council in Malaysia,Hannah,Rajiv and relevent parties are doing...zzzzzzzzz

what r they doing? see nothing, hear nothing , do nothing??

actually ain't they the ones that started it all.

[kwchang]

I agree with you, by going door to door to ask for consent to set up FnG is already a form of intimidation. This must stop at once. To me, it looks exactly like gangsters going house to house asking for protection money.

For those who have given consent and paid are then tagged and with that, we know exactly who has opposed. What will happen next to those who opposed a lucarative business is just a guess... Although no proof that harm will be made BUT it cant stop making those tagged as non-paying and non-cooperative families to worry about their safety and live in fear.


Correct ! we all know that it is a form of intimidation like those in HK movies.Those paying pretend they don't know.In a long run all usj/sj residents are living in fear....
A lot of unsubstantiated allegations again.
The reason the organisers of the GnG go door to door is to get the opinion of the residents on their willingness to join. This is the only way to determine if the community have 85% agreement. Did you not see the post in this channel some time ago when one RA group decided to cancel the proposed GnG because they only got 50% agreement? This process is not intimidation - did they go around with machetes and sticks to force anyone to sign on the dotted line?

As for lucrative, I believe not because the collections are usually just enough to cover to capital costs of putting up fences and boom-gates. The monthly collections are usually calculated to cover costs of paying the security guard provider.

If anyone have such suspicions, I am sure they can approach their individual RA's to check on their accounts. Failing which the RA concerned should be kicked out for not working for the interest of their community.

Please do not bad-mouth these volunteers unless you have proof. This Forum is a platform to share opinions and discuss issues BUT it is not a place for anyone to make unsubstantiated allegations and wrongful accusations

[driftingrover]

car stickers , house tag, what were the RA implying?

for the good of the community? should we divide the community??

closing off roads as if it were private property? (have a heart, take a look at usj4 , school children hv to walk on the main road, n when it rains , school children hv to walk in the mud, )

what will be next?

[adamx]

car stickers , house tag, what were the RA implying?

for the good of the community? should we divide the community??

closing off roads as if it were private property? (have a heart, take a look at usj4 , school children hv to walk on the main road, n when it rains , school children hv to walk in the mud, )

what will be next?

intimidation of these F & G supporters not only felt by residence but now are also extended into cyberspace. jan tomaswaki and SCCheah is banned from this forum for voicing their concerns, the next person who will be banned will most likely be adamx because I also raised my concerns, the admin sees it as "serious accusations" or "serious allegations".

We are merely talking about potential danger from the F&G activities and the way it is conducted and its likeness. The F&G supporters are also speculating that crime will be eliminated by having F&G ... which is also a a form "serious allegation" which is also unproven and un-substantiated.

Funny to understand how Admin see things, unless he is one of those smarties who thinks that they can solve the crime problems by resorting to paying "protection money"

[CCY]

Lol.....all these Gng , FnG seems to have the effect of polarizing the community than to unite them and with one eye man happily sending them to the plantation , is adding more fuel to the fire .

Whatever said or question brought up , most remains unanswered and the gng/fng is still being seemingly felt to be bulldoze through . Silence is golden perhaps for the initiator and those vocal opposition in so far have sounded the general fallacy of these scheme in the long term.
Scc , Jan ,Adamx ,Drift have put forward their points well and what they get is brickbats.
The territory is carved out between the pro's and con's and I dread to think how long the enmity will take to heal...

[kwchang]

...We are merely talking about potential danger from the F&G activities and the way it is conducted and its likeness. The F&G supporters are also speculating that crime will be eliminated by having F&G ... Funny to understand how Admin see things, unless he is one of those smarties who thinks that they can solve the crime problems by resorting to paying "protection money"
There you go again with the protection racket assumption. You can talk about the potential danger and the illegal aspects ... those are facts and i have allowed that as SCCheah knows too well because he had a lot of freedom to voice his opinions.

However, whether it is out of frustration or otherwise, I find that he and a few others have resorted to alleging such GnG activities to organised crime and thuggery. This is the one aspect I wish to correct ... that is NOT TO make ALLEGATIONS. We have a rule about doing that (creating rumours) and it is within our rules to stop this from happening. Please be very clear on my directions of management of this Forum.

Disclaimer - I am not partial to or against GnG. I only moderate on the rules of good behaviour on the Forum as this is a public forum read by any people including higher authoritites and even the Police. So it is imperative that i maintain order and good governance for a better community. Is that so difficult to understand?

[lord]

intimidation of these F & G supporters not only felt by residence but now are also extended into cyberspace. jan tomaswaki and SCCheah is banned from this forum for voicing their concerns, the next person who will be banned will most likely be adamx because I also raised my concerns, the admin sees it as "serious accusations" or "serious allegations".

We are merely talking about potential danger from the F&G activities and the way it is conducted and its likeness. The F&G supporters are also speculating that crime will be eliminated by having F&G ... which is also a a form "serious allegation" which is also unproven and un-substantiated.

Funny to understand how Admin see things, unless he is one of those smarties who thinks that they can solve the crime problems by resorting to paying "protection money"

Excuse me, Chang. I believe you did not address what adamx has highlighted, which I have marked in bold. Your action on that will see you as being a non-partisan as what you have claimed.

[lord]

For the benefit of those that were not fortunate enough to have read the NST article dated 5th Feb, 2010, in the PROPERTIES pullout (pp 6&7), it stated the guidelines drawn up by the Selangor Housing And Property Board, with regards to Fenced & Guarded (F&G) Community Schemes:

a) The guarding of a community by a private security firm and the construction of a guardhouse without barriers can only go ahead if it receives approval from 85 per cent of the residents in the area.

b) Guardhouses must not obstruct traffic.

c) Written consent from the relevant authorities must be had prior to it being built on a road reserve or vacant lot; and

d) Vehicles must not be prevented or obstructed from entering a guarded area.

------

The 85% figure is right at the top of the requirements. And so far we believe that this has not been achieved.

I hear that they've built a guardhouse at the entry-point near USJ2/5, nearby the semi-Ds. If that's true, they should already have obtained the written consent from MPSJ & PDRM (I suppose).

------

In the same article, Datuk Dr. Wong Sai Hou (Federal Coordinator for Petaling Jaya Utara, among other titles) states that "Actually, all F&G schemes are illegal, and even some luxury residential G&G projects too as their internal roads are actually public."

Datuk Ng Seing Liong (President of the Real Estate And Housing Developers' Association Malaysia (RehDa) mentions that "The law of the country must be respected. Even if a particular community supports F&G 100 per cent, the public roads still cannot be closed up. There is no such thing as a community voting to seal off public property. Even local authorities cannot override the statutes of the National Land Code."

He goes on ".. If you want to live in a legal G&G community, go and buy a property within a landed strata enclave."

"Now, we appear like we're going back to China a few thousand years ago when all communities were behind high walls.."

Further down the article, Datuk Ng continues, ".. the security of the whole country is at stake; not merely that of an individual community. If every housing scheme is fenced up, how can people go from one place to another?"

[My comment: suppose it's not enough to fence up individual communities, next, are we going to fence up the whole USJ, or Subang Jaya? What about fencing up the whole of Petaling District? Where will it end?]

Datuk Dr. Wong further elaborates, "After staying in Taman Universiti (in PJ) for the past 20 years and enjoying freedom of movement, I am emotionally affected whenever I see areas barricaded with oil drums, fencing, barbed wires and gantries ... they remind me of the New Villages during the Emergency Years and as if we are in a state of war."

------

What does this mean? It means THE END DOES NOT JUSTIFY THE MEANS.

Don't break the law to uphold it.

Why the sudden silence by the very pro-F&G group? As requested, Azman0123 has laid out all the facts, points and ref. Does this mean, your dead-silence, warrants all the fencing and drums to be removed?? Can you please remove them?

Or maybe, the points he laid out has finally brought down the curtain on all the fun you've had thus far? Pls don't behave like a particular political party, practising 2 law system!!

[kwchang]

Just to satisfy the Lord

...The F&G supporters are also speculating that crime will be eliminated by having F&G ... which is also a a form "serious allegation" which is also unproven and un-substantiated...
I do not see any allegation of bad behaviour regarding the opponents of the GnG in this comment. The supporters are believeing that their efforts will reduce crime.

I hope it is clear on what my point of moderation was about. It was purely based on our rules -

2. Be Civil

a. No attacks, threats, insults, name-calling or inflamed speech for the sake of argument.
...
d. Posts that are inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, sexually oriented, threatening, rude, mean, nasty, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law are not permitted. The issues with opponents of GnG is to allege that the organisers of the GnG are hooligans and thugs - that is violation of Rule 2a and being unsubstantiated, the allegations are not different from rumours and that violates Rule 2d (unlawful).

[robertec]

........ The F&G supporters are also speculating that crime will be eliminated by having F&G ... which is also a a form "serious allegation" which is also unproven and un-substantiated.

I don't think that kwchang need to or is able to answer with regards to the Crime Stats in Subang Jaya.

And some of you are just shooting off without any proof just to try and win a disagreement.

Why don't you call up each of the OCS in Subang Jaya and find out for yourself?

Their contact numbers are listed below for your easy reference, kindly give them a call or send them an SMS

Balai Polis SS17
C/I Tuan Sulaiman Bin Baputty - 019 3707100

Balai Polis USJ8
ASP Tuan Loi Yew Lik - 012 4118843

Balai Polis Taipan
Sarjan Thanabalan - 012 2135377

Balai Polis Putra Heights
S/I Tuan Nordin Bin Mustaffa - 012 3150775

Balai Polis Bandar Sunway
C/I Tuan Harikrishnan Muralitharan - 012 5818927

By the way this thread is calling for USJ2 Residents to setup a Gated and Guarded Community or maybe even a neighbourhood Watch Group. Don't just hijack it ok.

[jumbuck]

I don't think that kwchang need to or is able to answer with regards to the Crime Stats in Subang Jaya.

And some of you are just shooting off without any proof just to try and win a disagreement.

Why don't you call up each of the OCS in Subang Jaya and find out for yourself?

Their contact numbers are listed below for your easy reference, kindly give them a call or send them an SMS

Balai Polis SS17
C/I Tuan Sulaiman Bin Baputty - 019 3707100

Balai Polis USJ8
ASP Tuan Loi Yew Lik - 012 4118843

Balai Polis Taipan
Sarjan Thanabalan - 012 2135377

Balai Polis Putra Heights
S/I Tuan Nordin Bin Mustaffa - 012 3150775

Balai Polis Bandar Sunway
C/I Tuan Harikrishnan Muralitharan - 012 5818927

By the way this thread is calling for USJ2 Residents to setup a Gated and Guarded Community or maybe even a neighbourhood Watch Group. Don't just hijack it ok.


In order to hijack something, the item in question must already be in motion and in order. Many USJ 2 residents oppose the GnG initiatives. How can this be called a hijack when this thread is designed to gather feedback?

Just because the feedback may be disagreeable, it does not mean it is invalid. As many have mentioned repeatedly, the RA must demonstrate evidence that >85% have agreed. Plus, having an AGM that requires all members to pay a fee equivalent to the GnG monthly fee is somewhat strange to me. Is the RA solely set up for the GnG?

Furthermore, roads cannot be blocked so why then do we need stickers?

I live in USJ 2, and have been like many others, for many years. But I see myself as a Malaysian first. Safety and security is a national issue, and a robbery anywhere in the country is everyone's concern. Blocking off public roads and creating division in the community seems to me to be way worse than the small statistical chance of being robbed. After all, I MAY get robbed but I HAVE to go through the barriers every day.

It's funny how something so clearly illegal can just take off. Since when did our country become lawless?

[lord]

In order to hijack something, the item in question must already be in motion and in order. Many USJ 2 residents oppose the GnG initiatives. How can this be called a hijack when this thread is designed to gather feedback?

Just because the feedback may be disagreeable, it does not mean it is invalid. As many have mentioned repeatedly, the RA must demonstrate evidence that >85% have agreed. Plus, having an AGM that requires all members to pay a fee equivalent to the GnG monthly fee is somewhat strange to me. Is the RA solely set up for the GnG?

Furthermore, roads cannot be blocked so why then do we need stickers?

I live in USJ 2, and have been like many others, for many years. But I see myself as a Malaysian first. Safety and security is a national issue, and a robbery anywhere in the country is everyone's concern. Blocking off public roads and creating division in the community seems to me to be way worse than the small statistical chance of being robbed. After all, I MAY get robbed but I HAVE to go through the barriers every day.

It's funny how something so clearly illegal can just take off. Since when did our country become lawless?

SPOT ON!!!!

[robertec]

Dear Azman0123, I wish to inform you that we do not allow wholesale "copy & paste" of Newspaper articles on this Forum.

I will give you a chance to change the post to a weblink, failing which I will remove your post.

[currymee]

Dear Azman0123, I wish to inform you that we do not allow wholesale "copy & paste" of Newspaper articles on this Forum.

I will give you a chance to change the post to a weblink, failing which I will remove your post.

Robert,

I don't think he/she can change or do anything to the post - it is way past the 30 minutes grace period for editing :)

[robertec]

Yes, I know.

But would be better if I explain why the post was deleted.

[SCCheah]

Thank You Chang for bringing me back.

Anyway, let us pro and anti-FnG/GnG hold hands.

If we pro-FnG/GnG pple appear to be vociferous it's because we are also like you very concern- besides being concern about crime, we are also concern with our township in general.

Now let's move onto something a bit new.

Here's my two sen suggestion. I like to hear views from both sides.

adam and me earlier said better be by secret ballot. Now, on second thoughts it won't work cos when you have stickers etc anti-FnG pple can be identified.

So here's my suggestion:
To put to rest as to who is in the majority etc (see today's NST SJ Echo pullout in which it is again claimed that pro-FnG are in the majority and pple like me are in the minority-

Why not MPSJ put it to a referendum by way of a general notice. Failure of responding can be fined say RM500 or RM1,000. Can we have neutral pple..those not sure?

Each and every household will have to say Yes or No to FnG in USJ. We cannot leave it to RAs because some RAs don't represent the residents- like is there a proper election? Are all residents members of the RA?
Those who say Yes (put up fencing, guards etc- but no blocking of public roads please) must also pay the RM50- this will strengthen their support. I am sure RA/security firms will be too happy as it can help them to plan and budget properly. No point having pple say Yes but when it comes to paying, they vanish.

Give say three months or so for every vote to come in: then put up the result openly in MPSJ (bulletin boards) for everyone to see. So no bluffing or guess work. Very transparent.

Also those areas which already have so-called support must periodically (say over two or three months interval) have an audit- a kind of referendum to show whether they still have the support.
If their collection is still strong, maybe they can carry on- but if it is weak or dropping, MPSJ should review it.

Those who oppose FnG like me, should not be afraid- stand up and be counted and have our names pasted on the bulletin board. Those who say Yes to FnG MUST pay up-cannot slink away.

Of course I would prefer the Selangor state government to scrap the whole idea of FnG but if they want to push it through- then the so-called 85 per cent support must be shown clearly.

Like Suzy Orman say (Show Me The Money), now I say show me the real support.
This is just a suggestion. It may not work and I invite views on this. I am not too sure whether it will work.

[lord]

What a pity. When azman0123 put up a REAL, LEGITIMATE write-up which came out in the media, it had to be deleted. Yes, he violated the house rules down right by pasting it verbatim but.... what a waste.

azman0123, if you are reading this, can you PLS PLS copy and paste the link to that news. Unless, you are bananaed for a month. Then we will wait for you to return.

[SCCheah]

Wondering how you came across that article.

If you can't paste the link, let me know the date (from NST?) and I'll find it in the NST library.

Good to highlight such articles to help inform/educate fellow residents.

BTW, I am wondering why kwchang highlight those allegedly "serious allegations" of mine. Makes me feel you agree with me- because when you highlight those words in bold letters you are also abetting me.

From what I see, many people feel this way. When I mention "marked"...this is exactly how some people including myself feel. They feel they are being "watched". Many things in life is unsubstantiated. This forum must allow space for airing of views so long as the allegation(s) is not specific.

Many pple feel that some of the burglaries could be inside jobs- again not substantiated but pertinent. Same with how lots of cyberspace rumours cyber-stabbing BN politicians.. many are unsubstantiated.

[azman0123]

Dear admin,

I feel that it was a bit unfair that you removed my posting.

It wasn't spam. It wasn't hate mail. It wasn't porn.

It was just facts off a national newspaper. It wasnt from Harakah, or Suara Keadilan or The Rocket.

You could have at least given me 24 hours or something, to remove or summarise it. I'm not in front of the computer every waking minute, you know.


But, no harm done. Here's A LINK to a paper cutting (an image file) of the posting the righteous admin deleted:
http://aplikasi.kpkt.gov.my/akhbar.nsf/7ad5123b64d6c5124825694a0033cfc0/362b51b0c7b20e8e482573de0014cbf8?OpenDocument

[Joe Blow]

Hi all,

It seems that that most houses in USJ 2 do not have the GNG sticker (just drive around USJ 2 and see). There also seems to be an increasingly vocal dissenting population. Can we then take this to mean that there wasn't an 85% majority to begin with?

If the above is true, what action can be taken to remedy this? Do the powers that be observe the rumblings in these forums or is more direct action needed?

Also, the committee needs to step up to reassure those who DID pay for the GNG that they were not misrepresented in any way, particularly with reference to the 85% majority.

Your thoughts?

[kwchang]

I feel that it was a bit unfair that you removed my posting...It wasn't spam. It wasn't hate mail. It wasn't porn...It was just facts off a national newspaper....
Precisely ... incase you do not know, we are also respecting Intellectual Property (IP) rights on this forum. In most e-media websites, they will have a "terms of use" statement whereby it is explicitly declared that no part of the site content be published in any form without written permission. On this grounds, we maintain that the only way anyone can quote from an electronic site is one or both steps as below -
a) simply provide a hyperlink to that page
b) write a summary or commentary in your own words

We do not allow for any copy-paste quotes from another website in full respect of IP. In this particular e-newspaper, the NST, they do not actually have "Terms of Use" but nonetheless, they have at the base, one simple statement "Copyright © 2009 NST Online. All rights reserved." and that is sufficient for us to respect their IP rights.

This is another of the "education" we do about the correct use of the Internet

[SCCheah]

My wife said my suggestion wasn't too good.

Here's her input.

Since FnG pple want to have guards, fencing etc, they should be the ones whose names, addresses etc must be put up the MPSJ Bulletin Board for everyone's perusal. And most importantly, they MUST be paying members.

This can be verified by declaration (can be later checked if need be) that they have paid the first three months deposit.

Those against FnG, fence-sitters, sick, tidak-apa, tenants etc need not have to say anything.

Her logic is that since pro-FnG is attempting to change the characteristics of our township, they must show proof of their intent (seriousness) and one way is to pay up front the money.

Then other residents/members of the public can check whether there is 85, 90 or 100 per cent support as the requirement stipulates. Then, MPSJ must ensure that all guidelines are followed strictly. Barricading of public roads is non-negotiable.

Hmnn...makes some sense.

[lord]

Just to add on your proposal, if let's say MPSJ allows barricading of roads, it must also include that all maintenance of roads in that barricaded area be borne by the residents in that area and NOT from MPSJ's coffers. This is only fair. You want to play ball, we play ball. You cordone of public access as your own, you very well maintain them!!

[SCCheah]

Good suggestion Lord but wait a minute..what about people like me who is against blocking of roads? Also got to pay for road maintenance ah? War will break out man!

[lord]

Good suggestion Lord but wait a minute..what about people like me who is against blocking of roads? Also got to pay for road maintenance ah? War will break out man!

That's when the fun begins. There'll be internal bickering among themselves, for sure becoz, the so-called know-all gurus in the area will want to bulldoze everyone to pay, just like what they are doing now.

But the point I'm making is that, if they are so gung-ho to block public access roads for their own selfish purpose, then they should bear everything that comes along with those actions. These people are under the impression that the buck stops at blocking the roads, perimeter fencing and placing guards at the guard posts.

No!!! Read azman0123's earlier questions to the USJ2 committe. He has raised so valid points, so much so, the F&G loyalists are all silent.

[SCCheah]

That's what I was told by the distinguished panelists when I moderated at the NST Property Round-Table Discussion on GnG/FnG recently.

However, MPSJ, Police etc still very quiet (*zzzz)- what if they sit still like a rock? One forummer even urged USJ residents to go ahead and don't be afraid of being sued. I was hit left and right until you guys came along.

BTW, I personally know of 3 USJ2 residents who are very against the FnG in their area: a director of an accountancy firm (friend/old school mate), day-care centre lady and a retired NST sub-editor.

[lord]

The 'evil streak' in me is still waiting for someone to drag these guys to court. I'm also in discussion with a couple of lawyers on how to go about it. I'm hoping to get a green light from them soon so that I can make a police report. At the moment, I'm just driving past cone blocks, honking at the guards to remove the cones(which most guards do with a blank look on their faces) and refusing to give any details or to let them know where I am going. I just need one guard to refuse me entry and I would have a case against these guys.

Till then, I'm still waiting for one person to make the police report. We'll have a class action case in our hands.

[driftingrover]

The 'evil streak' in me is still waiting for someone to drag these guys to court. I'm also in discussion with a couple of lawyers on how to go about it. I'm hoping to get a green light from them soon so that I can make a police report. At the moment, I'm just driving past cone blocks, honking at the guards to remove the cones(which most guards do with a blank look on their faces) and refusing to give any details or to let them know where I am going. I just need one guard to refuse me entry and I would have a case against these guys.

Till then, I'm still waiting for one person to make the police report. We'll have a class action case in our hands.

seem like u n i r on the same wavelength, when i saw what u hv written, it is as if u read my plans

[kwchang]

There was a side track here on USJ4. I have split it out and moved it here (http://www.usj.com.my/bulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=29672&page=2&pp=15)

[aursong]

The Oil Drums are still blocking the entrance into USJ2...

It still caused difficulty when turning into USJ2 as well as causing jam to the already congested traffic. The chain reaction of the delay per car is causing havoc to the area stretch up to Federal Highway during the peak hour.

It doesn't serve any purpose other than causing dangerous situation for the motorists. Polis report had being made still there's no action. USJ2 RA should know by now there is a number of people that object to the F&G idea and they seem to just ignoring it.

[jan tomaswaki]

The Oil Drums are still blocking the entrance into USJ2...

It still caused difficulty when turning into USJ2 as well as causing jam to the already congested traffic. The chain reaction of the delay per car is causing havoc to the area stretch up to Federal Highway during the peak hour.

It doesn't serve any purpose other than causing dangerous situation for the motorists. Polis report had being made still there's no action. USJ2 RA should know by now there is a number of people that object to the F&G idea and they seem to just ignoring it.
It was report in the TV3 news last Thursday.A group of residents sent a protest note to MPSJ.Wondering what happens now?.Nobody in the authorities are doing anything.Coun.Rajiv are you reading this or what are you going to do with it.

[superz]

Dear Joni,pls be in those banglow hse till the traffic lights turning to USJ 6,at 6.45pm tonite.Do you notice the cars there are increasing five fold,just because they place the drums near the banglow.Ppl cannot take a public rd ,a short road to Summit,Usj 1,Giant....Pls have a good look....

I only have a simple little request to all these people who uses USJ2 roads as shortcut, i know everybody has their rights and freedoms to drive on any public road but please even if you do not stay around USJ2 and is just using it as shortcut, PLEASE PLEASE drive slowly and be considerate to the residents there and drive in there not like driving on a highway.

I have seen many impatient drivers driving recklessly inside USJ2(coming in from one end of persiran murni and driving recklessly looking for an exit to kewajipan) to avoid/skip the jam at the traffic light. it may be convenient to drive along USJ2 for shortcut exits but please be considerate even if you do not stay there.

ohh...one more thing, its not too expensive to park your car inside summit or at giant instead of along Jalan USJ2/2(near the flyover and bus stop) which many times is causing the road there to be narrower. Please be more considerate to the people staying near there even if any of you dont stay there and is only using that public road there to park your car because you have the rights and freedoms to.

[nona]

ok superz....noted :D

[jan tomaswaki]

The drums are still blocking the road,because of this ,yesterday's jam leads to SS17 polis station at 5.30pm.Believe it or not.Councillor Rajiv and Teresa pls do something or are you very busy .removing the oil drums takes only 2 minutes.

[azman0123]

Hi all.

There's a news snip in today's TheSun (Wed. March 10, 2010), page 4, by Maria J. Dass. [Note to admin: this is a summary; you can compare it to the newspaper article yourself]

The article says that RA's that implement initiatives to combat crime in their neighbourhood could lead them into trouble with the law.

The DG of the Department of Local Govt., Datuk Arpah Abdul Razak, said that if any untoward incident occurred due to the setting up of barricades, it would be the responsibility of the RA concerned that set it up.

The comment was in response to inquiries made by TheSun on recent events that had taken place where some individuals had rammed into barricades that had been set up by the Resident Associations in exercising their right to pass through without restriction.

Also, PJ municipal councillor and planning lawyer, Derek Fernandez, says that the law prohibits the restriction of access to any public road by a private individual or RA.

He says, "Technically speaking, a motorist wishing to enter a road or his home who refuses to comply with a security guard's request, can take action against the RA for false imprisonment". [highlight is mine]

Commenting on an incident where a resident rammed his vehicle into a barricade to exercise his rights, he says, "The person responsible for putting up the barricade and possibly the local authority may be legally liable".

He also added that insurance companies involved in the incident may not pay up, since it had involved an unlawful act.

Fernandez continues by saying that, "Until the law is amended, restrictions imposed are technically illegal, and those who impose them risk civil and criminal action by aggrieved parties".


So there! A Director General (no less), and even the lawyer for Petaling Jaya have said it is ILLEGAL. But's it's still legal, and not too late, to move to more secure surroundings.

[CCY]

The full text here....

http://www.sun2surf.com/article.cfm?id=44169

[jan tomaswaki]

It also came out in Malay mail yesterday.

[SCCheah]

I spent 20 minutes today (Wednesday) from about 1.10pm to 1.30pm taking photographs and observing school children from the secondary school in USJ 4/1 leaving school.

Many of them could not gain access to the road to the Tudor houses as the public road has been blocked off by their RA.

I counted around 25 school children- some having to walk beside busy Persiaran Tujuan to the far end (near Apollo coffee shop) before they make a right turn into the guard house area - a long detour and in the hot sun. Some of the kids ran over to the other side of the road towards the USJ 11 area. The authorities need to build a pedestrian bridge for these kids who live in USJ11.


Why is the Tudor RA so selfish in cordoning off this vital road? They could have put a gantry and a guard there if they are so fearful.

Pity I do not know how to upload the photos here but never mind- you will see it in the newspapers.

[azman0123]

Hi, everyone.

Did you guys receive the flyer a few days ago, which said "Maklumat Penting Untuk Perhatian Segera.

Anda/Important Information For Your Immediate Attention"? It's 7 pages long in three languages, BM, Chinese and BI.

It was addressed to Tuan Rumah/Penghuni USJ2. Subang Jaya.

I must say that it's sure full of questions that we should ask, but never crossed our minds to ask. I laud this group's efforts to educate and inform us. Does this group have an official name?

Congratulations to this group!

Those of us that dont see any sense in the fencing/gating off and guarding up of USJ2, should try to join/meet up with these guys. I'm not sure if there are any other groups that's been formed that oppose the F&G. So far, this is the only group that I've received any sort of news from.

For those that didn't receive the flyers, here're some of the questions raised. I'm not posting some points raised in the flyers, as the admin might not allow this post to be published.


(1) For those considering joining the Resident Association, USJ2 RA, they ask us to first acquaint ourselves with the USJ2 RA Articles of Association and its contents.

For a membership fee or subscription of RM600 per year (that's SIX HUNDRED RINGGIT), what benefits do the members get?

Why are residents that have paid the initial RM180 for the GnG project not required to pay the initial monthly subscription to the USJ2 RA? Aren't the RA and GnG two totally different things?

(Is it, pay for one project, and you're excused from paying for another project? If this is true, does this mean that those who pay for the GnG, shall get free (or discounted) USJ2 RA membership? Put another way, does it mean that those that join the RA are actually paying for the GnG, whether they like to, or not? I'm not sure what the answer is, or if these are valid questions.)


(2) On the subject of USJ2 RA's GnG implementation:
They say that the answer is still NO. This holds true even if the RA calls for a general meeting and a committee is elected, because they would still need the agreement of 85% of the households (that's 2295/2700 households in USJ2).

(From my own observation, I notice that household which subscribe to the GnG notion have tiny square stickers about 8cm x 8cm stuck to their front gate posts, above their post box. By going round USJ2 (especially in USJ2/4, 2/5 and 2/6), I notice that EXTREMELY FEW houses have these stickers. Even some bungalows and the semi-dees don't seem to have these stickers. I heard someone say that the reason there're few stickers on these gate posts is because the GnG proponents have run out of stickers. Ow, come on, that's a real lame excuse. How
long does it take to produce these stickers?)


(3) The flyers mentions that on 5th March 2010, a senior MPSJ official had denied that approval had been given to the GnG implementation in USJ2.


(4) On whether a resident can refuse to pay or DISCONTINUE payment for the GnG project, the flyer says that it is our right, as a citizen, NOT TO PAY for something that is illegal in the first place. Anyone should be free to move in and out of your own Taman, without any restraint, and that there should be NO NEED for any car stickers.

Residents and their guests are not obliged to provide IDs to guards.

It also asks us to contact the USJ Police, if we experience any uncomfortable situation. Contact numbers and email are given.

(That's good to note. if any guard stops me, or blocks my path, I will ask for HIS Identification. Perhaps even his passport. I will note it down. If possible, I will take a photo of this guard. Then I will call the police. That's what I did when some persistent salemen simply walked to my FRONT DOOR to sell me something, who then quickly removed himself from my premises.) (Is this guard even a resident of USJ2? What right has an outsider (AND FOREIGNER!) to ask me what I'm doing in my own neighbourhood that I've been staying in for the past TWENTY YEARS?)


(5) What are the effects of implementing GnG: Other than paying for the guards? Residents MAY also have to pay for garbage collection, road maintenace, repairs of street lighting, grass cutting, etc., which are already paid for, via the assessments that we pay to MPSJ.


(6) The group mentions that there's a petition that's still going round collecting signatures of residents who disagree to the GnG implementation.

(Since there're 2700 households in USJ2, 85% agreement means 2295 households; 15% disagreement means 405 households. So, even if their signature campaign gets 406 signatures (15.04%), they've made it!! That's really, really powerful. So, stop sitting on the fence (no pun intended). Make your move and sign up.)

If you object to the USJ2 GnG, you may contact or email the names and numbers/emails given in the flyer. it says ".. remaining silent or neutral will not be helpful and can be detrimental to your interests.."

"Do not allow a small group of individuals to make decisions affecting the rights and free movement of so many residents in USJ2."

(How true!)


The flyer is dated 15th March 2010. Let's hope more insightful flyers like this, chock-full of information comes to us regularly.

[SCCheah]

Good job Azman0123.

Thanks for the update.

[Joe Blow]

Azman,

I too found the flyer very informative. But now a few people close to the GNG project are talking about suing this group for defamation! These guys really have the nerve especially since they lied to us about having 85% consent. Now they're saying that 85% is not an issue because they are not stopping traffic. (They need 500 houses more to get 85%, they claim)

[evelynlim]

I've received an email from one of the committee of the RA. The email is about details of the costing of the GnG project and the FAQ as at 14/3/10.
If I understand clearly, is like only 60% of the residents subscribed to it. :confused: They mentioned need another 500 households supports of which 1042 hv already indicated their support is based on total 1925 households & not 2700 as mentioned earlier. I still don't understand how they get the figure :confused: I know the committee members are working very hard on this project but they should have done it in a proper manner to avoid any unnecessary problems.

[Joe Blow]

Same here Evelyn,

Appreciated the work the committee members have put into the project but am not appreciating the way they have gone about it. They should have done it properly and not just shanghai-ed they're way through, no matter how 'noble' their intentions. Previously when asked, the committee very confidently said they have 85% support. Now they have flip-flopped by saying that 85% is a non-issue as they are not stopping traffic.

The result, as we are seeing now: a divided community. Nobody can possibly win from this kind of situation.

As the imposing party, the GNG should do something to remedy this situation pronto. By remedy I mean mending fences to reconcile the interests of the WHOLE community. No more of this holier than thou attitude. Its hurting everybody.

[azman0123]

Hi, why dont we just do a sampling of the number of stickers and post the results here? Honestly, I don't see many stickers.

I'll post some results today.

[Uncle Oh]

Dear Mr. Ng Oon-Ee,

Can you please inform me when is the next appointment of discussion between the two groups (pro & anti F&G), so that I & others who may wish to attend may be there?

Already this forum & the United Subang Jaya Web Forum appears to be one pro & one anti.

Worst, I am seeing what is term "allegations" & filing "defamation suit".

Even much worst, getting personal about the arguments. Now I come to know one Effendy Tay as "ex-senior police officer" (unquote from Lau Teik Ping), & another Mr. Ng Boon Hong also "an ex-senior police officer" (unquote from Katherina). Do we need to find out what our father or mother have been?

If we allow such bickering tone or unfriendly tone to continue, whether it is pro-F&G or anti-F&G, their objectives, if at all achieved, would be done in a bloody way. (The red-shirt army in Bangkok serves as current memory).

I like to quote from Tan Keng Song,

"Have all means to resolve this impasse between the 2 opposing groups
> been exhausted. Can this be resolved in a more communitarian spirit?
> Can the 2 groups sit down and discuss rather than shoot emails or send
> leaflets? Perhaps there is a need to be reconciliatory and
> constructive on both sides and perhaps shortcomings, if any, can be
> rectified and whole GnG concept be further enhanced?"

I would like even to add that much more regular discussions be held well before the AGM of 27/3/2010. Or, better still postpone 27/3/2010 for 4 more weeks to allow for more reconciliation.

Important, to lower each other tone, or manner. Even if it is in the cyber-space.

Regards
Uncle Oh

[Joe Blow]

Hi, why dont we just do a sampling of the number of stickers and post the results here? Honestly, I don't see many stickers.

I'll post some results today.

I did a drive around USJ 2 the other day. You will find that houses with stickers are the minority. Actually, the committee has already (only just now) admitted that they do not have 85% majority for GNG.

[CCY]

I did a drive around USJ 2 the other day. You will find that houses with stickers are the minority. Actually, the committee has already (only just now) admitted that they do not have 85% majority for GNG.
Why would they have these stickers if it is meant to be for the security of the community at heart...? Wouldn't this action create partition among the community than to unite them...?
No more of these nonsense please...:mad: and stop these non conducive action that is polarizing the community ....

[azman0123]

Sorry, I forgot to post the results of the sticker count yesterday. Anyway, here they are. These are results from my 'fly past' yesterday and today. I'm quite certain that there were no changes between yesterday and today:

2/4P: 31 houses
2/4Q: 51 houses
2/4R: 34 houses
2/4S: 0 houses

2/5: 7 houses
2/5E: 10 houses
2/5H: 28 houses
2/5J: 9 houses

2/6: 17 houses
2/6G: 3 houses
2/6H: 0 houses

From my observation of the roads I went through, NOT EVEN ONE ROAD had 85% take up on the GnG. In fact, for the sample of USJ2/4 area (looks like the highest take up), I am quite certain that not even 50% had stickers.

You guys have any results?

[SCCheah]

Thanks for the hard work azman0123.

However, watch out for a new ploy that has surfaced in Rawang. I am not sure about USJ.

Apparently, some residents in Rawang have offered to put security stickers first and pay/join later. Some RAs hastily put up oil drums and partly fence up one section just to show that they have some kind of support.

So don't carried away with stickers at gate pillars or cars.

Ultimately, the authorities which in our case is MPSJ MUST show transparency and, as I have suggested before they MUST show/display on bulletin boards the names and addresses of all PAYING members. Those who agree but do not pay up at least 3 months advance fees do not count.

Then we will know how solid is their support. As it is MPSJ, Hannah etc all seem so quiet. Does it mean they don't log onto this website?

The pro-FnG/GnG people seem to be marking time and hoping the issue will die down and they can carry on with their barricading. I also noticed that of late more and more forummers are now speaking up and expressing their concerns.

I hope the authorities, politicians, police and hard core pro-FnG will kindly take note. After all we should be ONE community irrespective of race, religion and income levels.

Although Uncle Oh has suggested that we sit down and discuss- but what's there to discuss when people take the law into their own hands, there is no transparency and you have people talking about Catch22 situation?

They don't seem to budge and waiting for a bad incident or accident to happen like kids being knocked down by vehicles because they are forced to make a dangerous detour.

Maybe time for more drastic action!

[Uncle Oh]

There is another forum at Yahoo group.

It is a closed group open to USJ2 residents only.

The moderator has deemed it fit to demand for full name & resident address before admitting anyone to the group.

The pro-tem committee of the RA has finally (on 14/3/2010 - to beat 14 days notice period for 27/3/2010 RA AGM ) circulated some information in the form of FQA (Facts, Question & Answer). These FQA has provided some much needed information.

It is a bit of Catch-22. So, the way out is forced on 27/3/2010 RA AGM to obtain what one will term as "mandate", very politically inclined word, isn't it?

If you let me have your email, I will forward to you a copy.

In my view, the Pro FnG committee has generally adopted some arrogance, especailly towards non-USJ2 residents, like you Mr. SCCheah. They even accused the Anti FnG member of espionage. That's how the anti-group, with Mr. Ng Boon Hong as a member can come out with the 3 language anti-circulars.

What surprise me most is some of the very strong demand voiced by some of the Yahoo closed forum group (presumably Pro-tem committee member), to file defamation suit against the anti-FnG group for the 3 language circular that contained the sentence of "are free to manipulate with your money?".
That's why I suggested discussions.

I am only afraid that the more these arguments are appearing in the cyber-space, the free will of language & tone & mode will invite more insults. When when the two groups meet again, instead of CATCH22 it is AK47 or M16 !!! (What a joke it will be) :D

[SCCheah]

I know you mean well Uncle Oh but how to reconcile?

USJ2 is a very big area, one of the largest in USJ. The USJ pro-tem RA committee cannot and should not treat non-USJ2 residents as outsiders. We are all inter-linked.

They cannot just call a meeting for USJ2 residents and leave us out!

My kids day-care centre is in USJ2, my friends are in USJ2, and I makan at USJ2 coffee shops.

Similarly residents of other parts of USJ/elsewhere go here and there. We're all inter-connected.

[chsum]

Uncle Oh, azman ah...no need to count sticker lah, do u know how long & hard is it to get consent & payment from 10 roads (roughly 56 houses per road) = 560 houses, not to mention other outsiders who claim they have a say in how or if u can run your gng or not.
It's all simple mathematics, lets assume the charges per month is RM50 per house, how many exit u have in usj2 (lets say 4?) 2 guards per exit and 2 extra for ronda = 10guards x 2 for 24hrs = 20guards, let say RM1,600 per guard per month = RM32,000, so simple mathematic tells u 560houses x RM50=RM28,000.00 so 85% is RM23,800.00 the gng doom to fail.
So now u see, just find out the cost of the guards and how many exit n guards they r hiring, then u will know usj2 can go ahead with the gng with how many % paying resident for it to sustain, if they can't reach the breakeven % then usj2 gng will die of a natural death, no need for u to jump up n down worrying.

CSCheah ah, u still so free ah, my friend also stay in usj4, my child also study in usj4 n also I ave second wife in usj4 (don't tell my first wife ah) can i have a say in usj4 ah?

my 2 cents

[aursong]

The barrels opposite USJ3 have just been remove...
Pass by during lunch hour today... (hope is not just temporaly...)

Thanks to anyone who had remove the barrels...
Lets the journey back home after long hours of work be at least bit smoother...

Cheers...

[SCCheah]

Yes, I also just noticed it and taken photos of it.

These are the oil drums that I nearly crashed into them more than a month ago and a police report was lodged by me.

Prior to that many motorists have to endure a long queue trying to negotiate around the drums. This is the USJ2 bungalow/semi-dee area.

A section of fencing at Kesas flyover at USJ3 (opposite the USJ2 oil drums) have been torn down and yellow tape tied across it. Wonder what happened.

[azman0123]

I'm just guessing as to why the barrels have been removed.

There was a bad accident at the USJ2/7 junction with Persiaran Tujuan. Some people say that 3 cars were involved. One turned upside down, or on its side. Not sure. This happened very early on Sunday morning. Witnesses that passed by noticed these cars there between 6:30am and 6:50am.

Two barrels were strewn onto Persiaran tujuan.

According to someone who asked the guards stationed at the guardhouse about 10 metres away, they deny ever seeing or hearing any accident occurring at that junction on that fateful (for the GnG project) Sunday morning.

Funny isnt it? We were talking about accidents occurring at barricades, just the other day.... and this had to happen. Malays say "mulut masin".

Hope the other examples we talked about dont happen.

[azman0123]

It's all simple mathematics, lets assume the charges per month is RM50 per house, how many exit u have in usj2 (lets say 4?) 2 guards per exit and 2 extra for ronda = 10guards x 2 for 24hrs = 20guards, let say RM1,600 per guard per month = RM32,000,

Hi chsum.

How'd you get the figure of RM1,600? That's a very large number. From what I know, the pay is not that much. I made a random call to one security guard firm about an hour ago, and he told me the guards are paid a lowly RM7 PER DAY!

As if to vouch for his response to me, have a look at the article below regarding lowly paid guards (RM8/day):
http://www.aliran.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=258:the-security-guard&catid=42:2007-2&Itemid=45


Your calculations bring up an interesting point. There are 5 entry/exit points for USJ2. if we employ 2 guards for every entry point for 12 hour shifts (the norm). It'll take 20 guards, per day. And lets assume we have 3 rolling guards, i.e. those that patrol USJ2 on bikes. That's another 6 guards. Therefore, a total of 26 guards. At RM8 per shift per guard, that amounts to RM208 per day. Which is RM208 x 30 = RM6240 per month!

For the amount these people are currently paying and the number of people paying, as you rightly pointed out, they are paying something around RM23,800! Do you know how many guards you can have?

Almost ONE HUNDRED GUARDS! That is, 50 guards every shift. That's almost two guards for every street!

Is somebody making a killing here? Ha ha.

[chsum]

wah... RM7/day x 30days = RM210 per month u sure ah :eek: that is below the min wage set by gov, try n hire a guard below 1k per month for 12hrs every day of the year n see what u get (u pay peanuts, u get monkey ;) ).
Also that article was written in 2007, old aledi loh.
RM1,600 r for local guards, around RM1k+ for foreign guards :rolleyes:
can pm the guard co u call ah, they r sooo... cheap.

My two sense

[azman0123]

OK, OK. I guess you are right. The article is soooo old.

I took my investigative tool (Google) and did a further search, and I found this, very recent article:

http://www.mmail.com.my/content/29236-wage-hike-upsets-security-companies

Latest stats indicate that guards are paid RM450 per month.

At this rate, the guards guarding USJ2 (using same figures in previous post) would cost residents only RM11,700 per month.

Put another way, if you still want to pay RM50 per month, a group of nine households could fork out RM450 to get a guard. Now, THAT'S personal service!

That would be much better than blocking roads and pestering guests and other users.

[SCCheah]

Yup azam0123, it looks like an accident as I noticed some of the oil drums dented. They are placed on both sides of the road now.

[AlanCheng]

Can someone do a rought estimation on how much money has been
"ROBBED" by the gng security company from USJ 1 To USJ 27 every month ? :rolleyes:

[SCCheah]

I'm just guessing as to why the barrels have been removed.

There was a bad accident at the USJ2/7 junction with Persiaran Tujuan. Some people say that 3 cars were involved. One turned upside down, or on its side....

Funny isnt it? We were talking about accidents occurring at barricades, just the other day.... and this had to happen. Malays say "mulut masin".

Hope the other examples we talked about dont happen.


Chinese say "golden mouth" but superstition aside, all these haphazard barricading are accidents waiting to happen.

[SCCheah]

azman0123 earlier mentioned of a bad accident at USJ2 oil drum junction where a car flipped over.

Today Star reported that Media Prima Group Editor (News and Current Affairs) of NTV7, TV8, TV9 and Radio Networks Datuk Manja Ismail’s youngest son was killed in an accident at USJ3, Subang Jaya.
It reported that Muhammad Ikhwanul Ashraf Manja, 18, died on the spot after his car skidded and turned turtle along the Jalan Kewajipan junction during the 4.30am incident yesterday.

NST reported that he was at the Persiaran Kewajipan intersection heading towards Jalan SS19 when the car he was driving hit a kerb at 4.30am.

There is something wrong with the report. I suspect both reports meant Jalan Tujuan because USJ3 is at Jalan Tujuan and not Jalan Kewajipan.

Similarly in the NST report, it said the deceased was heading towards SS19. Jalan Tujuan is next to SS19 and not Jalan Kewajipan.

Also Azman0123 mentioned that there was a bad accident in which a car flipped over. The Star report said the car turned turtle.

Can this be the accident that killed the editor's son? Can someone check please? If it is, and if it is partly due to the oil drums, then it's big trouble for the RA!!

[SCCheah]

The eight or so oil drums have vanished at USJ2 junction.

They were still there yesterday evening but placed on the grass edge.

I spoke to a guard there and he confirmed there was an accident involving three cars yesterday but he could not say whether there was any casualty.

[azman0123]

Hi SCCheah.

The accident I wrote about occurred on Sunday morning. Datuk Manja's son died in another accident on Monday morning. I dont know where though. Reading different newspapers give conflicting reports on where the accident occurred.

Ha! So you DID find a guard that could confirm the accident involving 3 cars. That's great.

I wonder when they got rid of the oil drums. They were still there this afternoon. I was just about to propose donating those drums to a paintball operator.

[SCCheah]

Damansara folks reject FnG/GnG and opt for Rukun Tetangga and police patrol.

http://thestar.com.my/metro/story.asp?file=/2010/3/24/central/5898059&sec=central

[SCCheah]

Hi SCCheah.

The accident I wrote about occurred on Sunday morning. Datuk Manja's son died in another accident on Monday morning. I dont know where though. Reading different newspapers give conflicting reports on where the accident occurred.

Ha! So you DID find a guard that could confirm the accident involving 3 cars. That's great.

I wonder when they got rid of the oil drums. They were still there this afternoon. I was just about to propose donating those drums to a paintball operator.


Yes, the oil drums are gone except a few near the guard's shed.

[birdy]

azman0123 earlier mentioned of a bad accident at USJ2 oil drum junction where a car flipped over.

Today Star reported that Media Prima Group Editor (News and Current Affairs) of NTV7, TV8, TV9 and Radio Networks Datuk Manja Ismail’s youngest son was killed in an accident at USJ3, Subang Jaya.
It reported that Muhammad Ikhwanul Ashraf Manja, 18, died on the spot after his car skidded and turned turtle along the Jalan Kewajipan junction during the 4.30am incident yesterday.

NST reported that he was at the Persiaran Kewajipan intersection heading towards Jalan SS19 when the car he was driving hit a kerb at 4.30am.

There is something wrong with the report. I suspect both reports meant Jalan Tujuan because USJ3 is at Jalan Tujuan and not Jalan Kewajipan.

Similarly in the NST report, it said the deceased was heading towards SS19. Jalan Tujuan is next to SS19 and not Jalan Kewajipan.

Also Azman0123 mentioned that there was a bad accident in which a car flipped over. The Star report said the car turned turtle.

Can this be the accident that killed the editor's son? Can someone check please? If it is, and if it is partly due to the oil drums, then it's big trouble for the RA!!
I saw a car completely destroyed on Monday morning when going to work. I don't think it has anything to do with the drums as it happened before the bridge linking to SS19 (flyover bridge on Jln Kesas). I didn't see any fatality at that time. My guess would be the car lost control and overturned down the slope towards USJ3

[azman0123]

Hi everyone.

It seems that everyone I have had a chance to talk to, about the USJ2 RA fees, have said that the fees are very high. I'm sure everyone agrees. I think it's too much. What do they need that money for anyway?

Did you know that the USJ5 RA has over RM77,000 in its bank account at end of 2009? What for? Who knows? Just go over to their website and get the details. They charge (for want of a stronger word) their residents RM1,200 per year! Wooi! Look at their audited accounts here: http://www.usj5.com.my/meeting/Audited Accounts-new.xls


I took some time to go to several residents associations to get e feel of how much a resident should pay for membership to an RA. Just to find out what's actually fair.

And the results are as listed below.

I found 17 RAs, and most of them charge fees ranging from RM12 to RM60 per year.

- Bandar Utama,
- Setia Alam,
- Tg Bungah,
- Tmn Tun Dr Ismail,
- Puchong Hartamas,
All Charge RM 12 per year.

Country Heights charges RM120 per year, and Bandar Tasik Selatan charges RM30 per month.

Puncak Nusa Kelana charges the cheapest at RM10 per year.

Some RAs also have lifetime memberships.

Bandar Utama and Tmn Tun Dr Ismail (2 exclusive neighbourhoods) charges lifetime membership for a lowly RM50.

At USJ2's rates, we can get 12 lifetimes in Bandar Utama (or TDI) for every year we live in USJ2.

Even Country Heights charge RM500 for lifetime membership.

What's so EXCLUSIVE in USJ2 that they have to charge RM600 per year? Could they be confusing the issue of membership fees and GnG?

GnG fees are GnG fees. RA fees are RA fees.

Dont confuse the issue, and dont confuse the public.

What do you think should be the annual subscription fee?


The websites of the RA's I researched on are as shown below. I hope nobody accuse me of DREAMING up these fees and the sites, as has happened when I reported about an accident at USJ2/7 and another incident involving women in a guardhouse.

------


Bandar Bukit Tinggi, Klang Joining RM10. Annual RM24. Lifetime membership RM50. Lifetime associate RM100.
http://www.dapat.net/moblog.aspx?member=PPBBT

Bandar Botanic Joining RM20. Annual RM24.
http://bbra-klang.blogspot.com/

Bandar Sri Damansara Annual RM25. Lifetime membership RM200.
http://www.bsdra.com/

Bandar Tasik Selatan Monthly RM30.
http://www.bandartasikselatan.org/

Bandar Utama Entrance RM10. Annual RM12. Lifetime membership RM50.
http://www.bura.org.my/

Bukit Jelutong Annual RM20.
http://www.bjra.com.my/bjrav2/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=51&Itemid=30

Country Heights Annual RM120. Lifetime RM500.
http://chrla.net/chrla/constitution.htm#6

Puncak Nusa Kelana RA registration RM10. Annual RM10
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache%3ANH9UHgnl9jcJ%3Apnkora.com%2FDocuments%2F PNKORA%2520membership%2520application%2520form.pdf +residents+association+malaysia+annual+fee&hl=en&gl=my&sig=AHIEtbTVR9lwW_N7CDGyWuiSNmnenMcc1Q

Puncak Jalil Entrance RM10. Annual RM15.
http://www.puncak-jalil.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=701

Saujana Damansara Annual RM35.
http://saujanadamansara.com/

SS4C & SS4D Monthly RM5.
http://ss4ra.terapad.com/index.cfm?fa=contentGeneric.fohsqttbrwsgrlkn

Setia Alam Annual RM12. Lifetime membership RM120.
http://forum.setiaalam.net/viewtopic.php?t=449

Tmn Alam Budiman U10 registration RM20. Monthly RM5.
http://abra.alambudiman.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=53&Itemid=28

Tanjung Bungah RA entrance RM8. Annual RM12
http://tanjongbunga.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2009-03-20T15%3A22%3A00%2B08%3A00&max-results=10

Tmn Tun Dr Ismail Entrance RM5. Annual RM12. Lifetime membership RM50.
http://www.ttdi-ra.com.my/members.htm

Tmn Puchong Hartamas Entrance RM5. Monthly RM1 (ONE RINGGIT)
http://www.puchonghartamas.com/node/90

Tropicana Annual Enrollment RM50. Annual RM30.
http://www.tropicanara.com/index.php#

[SCCheah]

The guards have put cones instead of oil drums at the USJ2 junction to Persiaran Tujuan. Sigh! What next?

Does it serve any purpose?

[aursong]

Yes... it make the traffic worst from what already a bad bottleneck area...

:mad: :mad: :mad:

[jan tomaswaki]

[QUOTE=SCCheah]The guards have put cones instead of oil drums at the USJ2 junction to Persiaran Tujuan. Sigh! What next?QUOTE]

Yesterday horrendous downpour cause heavy traffic in that area.Still those good-for-nothing ppl thought the cones will not cause jams.Look what happen yesterday :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[driftingrover]

[QUOTE=SCCheah]The guards have put cones instead of oil drums at the USJ2 junction to Persiaran Tujuan. Sigh! What next?QUOTE]

Yesterday horrendous downpour cause heavy traffic in that area.Still those good-for-nothing ppl thought the cones will not cause jams.Look what happen yesterday :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

oh, i would not say they r "good-for-nothing" , at least they makes lives miserable for others so they r still good for something.

[jumbuck]

oh, i would not say they r "good-for-nothing" , at least they makes lives miserable for others so they r still good for something.

At the very least, have the common sense of not parking your motorcycles or standing in the middle of the road especially when it's dark. Twice I had to swerve to avoid the guards and their bikes. Just last night, there were 5 of them mingling about with a stationary bike in the middle of a lane.

Hitting a cone is one thing, hitting a person is a whole different issue. If the RA insists on flouting the law and hiring them, at least get those with enough sense to not stand in the middle of the road.

[azman0123]

At the very least, have the common sense of not parking your motorcycles or standing in the middle of the road especially when it's dark. Twice I had to swerve to avoid the guards and their bikes. Just last night, there were 5 of them mingling about with a stationary bike in the middle of a lane.

Hitting a cone is one thing, hitting a person is a whole different issue. If the RA insists on flouting the law and hiring them, at least get those with enough sense to not stand in the middle of the road.

A few weeks ago, I made a complaint (in their yahoo group) about their guards chatting with their colleagues from a bike in the middle of the road (similar complaint to yours), and an instance when I saw 2 women step out from a guard house. I also reported the accident with the oil drums to them. And I WAS ATTACKED by them, and they accused me of LYING, making up things, dreaming etc. Never mind, I said. Let them live in their fantasy world. As long as they dont disturb me near my limit, I'll let them be.

Oil drums can hurt your car. But cones....

BTW, notice the change of their security guard company? Now its SAGA security or something. Seems that there were too many complaints regarding the services and attitudes of the previous one. Guys, if you see anything you dont like about these guards, complain, complain, complain. AND LOUDLY!

[azman0123]

An anonymous and wonderous bird whispered into my ear just the other day. It sang the following:

A Proton Satria bearing number plate, BFL 6649 WAS OBSERVED BY THE GUARDS, EMPLOYED BY THE GNG GROUP, to be moving around in USJ2 at night. The person in the know, says that the M.O. (that's modus operandi, for the uninitiated) of the car was believed to be a getaway for their team-mate after a house break-in. (You think I'm going to congratulate the group? Wait til I finish)

The bird continues to sing, saying that the GUARDS HAVE NO MEANS TO STOP AND CHECK THE SUSPICIOUS CHARACTER, who they say had short hair and a fair complexion.

This suspicious character would park the car in dark areas and move to other areas when confronted.

The bird said that the GnG group said that\there is no other means of exercising enforcement except security patrol as deterrent.

Then the bird flew away, and promised to sing a happier tune the next time it came by.

====

OK, so the guards saw, no, wait, OBSERVED, suspicious goings-on in USJ2. They saw the suspect park in dark areas, and move away when confronted. The guards admit THEY HAVE NO MEANS TO STOP AND CHECK the character.

If they already saw the suspicious characters moving around in the dark of night, WHY DIDNT THEY CALL THE POLICE?? WHAT'RE they doing. What are they waiting for. They admit they cant do anything, so, WHY DIDNT THEY CALL THE POLICE???? They even had a rough make up of the suspect.

DO NOT MAKE THE MISTAKE OF MAKING US RESIDENTS DEPEND ON YOUR GUARDS. I hope that is not your intention.

When a neighbour of mine quarrelled with his ex-wife and the commotion got noisy at 1 AM, I called the police. And they arrived in 15 minutes.

So are they waiting until a crime has been committed, BEFORE calling the police? What's the use of guarding, when you just look/observe? I'm not sure if they were observing if the house the suspect was observing had any stickers on the gate.

Come on, lah.

[jan tomaswaki]

every USJ got GnG ,so USJ2 also cannot lose out lah!Got standard mah!Robbery talk later lah.Guard cannot do anything also never mind lah,at least got G n G means got class :eek: :mad: