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besitai2007
29-10-2009, 09:52 AM
Defence Minister Datuk Ahmad Zahid Hamidi said that the government is going to retire the sophisticated Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29N jets bought during Dr. Mahathir's time. Pilots were sent to Russia to learn how to pilot it. I saw the aircraft during its impressive display at one of the merdeka celebrations by doing almost vertical climbs. Now, with all that money spent, we have a junk only fit for the scrap heap. Honestly, why buy it in the first place, just to flex our russian muscles at others, or.....?

But wait, the role of the MiG-29N is going to be taken over by the Sukhoi SU-30MKM aircraft. It was shown during the LIMA 2007 airshow. Will it be eventually relegated to the scrap heap when "some of its components and aircraft systems are old and difficult to maintain"?

Sentinel
29-10-2009, 10:02 AM
I am sure they know the 'use-by date' will be short. Better still coz they can just scrap it and buy new ones...

Fabe18
29-10-2009, 10:11 AM
So are you saying the country doesn't need to have any fighter jets??? So that we can allow air invaders to bombard us at any given time? It's akin to not buying insurance, die then die loh.

Having a fleet of fighter jets are essential to any country. Even a small city state like S'pore has it.

As for replacement, all these jets are subjected to high G forces which causes metal fatigue. The micro hairline cracks are not visible to the naked eyes. but it can cause catastrophic failure when things come apart in mid air. And mind you, a fighter jet is a whole lot more complicated then a Kancil. It's definitely requires a lot of man hours and expertise to keep it in eveready condition, to be able to fly at any given notice.

I would say it's fair to replace the fleet after so long in service. At least they didn't replace them every 5 years...

Sentinel
29-10-2009, 10:17 AM
Having a fleet of fighter jets is essential and for heaven's sake buy the right type of jets lah... not ones where it is already well known will not have spare parts in less than 5 years...

In the early days, Malaysia used the F-5Es and they were in use for at least 20 years. In fact parts for F-5Es are still available.

These are the Malaysian F5Es over the Butterworth sky in the early days... (Photo reproduced here from detik.com)

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee122/GreenBug19/f-5-tiger.jpg

Singapore? Hey, its just a little red dot city located north of the world's largest Muslim country and linked to the north to another Muslim country. It not only has a squadron of F-16s in Singapore plus Super Puma helicopters and Apache Attack Helicopters, but a few more located in Perth, Taipei and even some at the Arizona desert in the US. It is said that the F-16s in Perth and Taiwan can reach Singapore in around 2 hours in case of an attack on the island state...

USJ27Resident
29-10-2009, 12:33 PM
imho... this is where humanity has this absurd/stupid idea that spending obscene amount of good money to 'flex' their military might against one another would be the best defence - at the expense of the people well-being... and when the other country doesn't "blink", they go whacking and thumping the sh!t out of each other - and only the innocent get caught up as collateral damage... whole lot of crap, ain't it!!!

in the first place - why must countries go invading, bombing and blowing up other countries - for what !!! :mad:

i have experienced enough of watching innocent children and cilivians with bullet holes and blast wounds during my days with the UNHCR and the ICRC to condemn and curse those warmongers and leaders than hide behind a freaking desk while their soldiers and freedom fighters run amok shooting each other and killing the innocent bystanders caught in the crossfire... till today the little boy that bled to death in a crossfire between the palestinians and the israeli still haunts me...

WARS and WAR MACHINES should be outlawed in all forms of existence.... it is nothing more than a profiteering scheme set by warmongers...

zinglicious
29-10-2009, 12:40 PM
Sokong! Heal the world to make it a better world instead of making a killing! No animal is as destructive compared to mankind though they may be ten time the size of the man. :eek:

bslee
29-10-2009, 12:47 PM
in the first place - why must countries go invading, bombing and blowing up other countries - for what !!! :mad:


I sometimes think it could be a big waste of money too to maintain the old miltary armaments and gear. Do realize Malaysia needs LOTS OF MONEY (and I think its really A LOT!)to maintain, progress and forge ahead this country in many areas. What if every government department insists on having so much RMxxxxxx.xxxxx.xxxx to be up to par or put things right in a short time, where the heck is the money coming from?...surely not tax the taxpayer till you see blood? The annual budget is only so much.
We know there's lots of wastage and unaccountable expenses from the coffers and budget. I can't possibly summarise in one or two paragraphs. Of course its easy to say, "hey! get the priorties right" BUT this country have complications way beyond any rakyat's thinking or foresight. One issue leads to another.
I was once in a large hospitality concern. The boss refuse (or evade) to seriously upgrade or refurbish at least 80% where its needed to bring in the business and in dire straits. OTH, we're all pushed to the limits and threatened hard to bring in the business despite our shabby premise and standards which was long overdue, new competitors having better deals just across the road.. How?... it was a stalemate!

AllUrban
29-10-2009, 02:08 PM
One of the topics that my economics students look at is the economic benefits of military spending.

Effectively, military spending encourages the growth of the military-industrial-financial complex and provides job opportunities for lower-skilled citizens

basically, it is a government taking the easy way out to encourage economic growth. Bomb and rebuild, that kind of thing.

Farenheit 911 has a good commentary on how the poor and lower-middle class fund America's military expenditure and fight and die in America's wars...another good example is the scenes in the Civil War movie Glory, as well as Gangs of New York (the Irish Immigrants who are coopted into joining the Union Army).

Cheers, m

bslee
29-10-2009, 02:17 PM
basically, it is a government taking the easy way out to encourage economic growth. Bomb and rebuild, that kind of thing.


Perhaps one big credit due is the role our armed forces eventually victorious and ending the Communist problem after decades. We have to be grateful that this country is safe and most of us rakyat haven't to suffer any civil wars. We DO NEED a proper army anyhow... maybe not as advanced as other developed countries but a decent and respected one.
PIRACY in the high seas around us... THAT'S ONE BIG 21st century problem!... Malacca Straits and SC Sea... East Malaysia... I hope the garmen does right!. Its no more the days of Captain Hook, Long John Silver, Errol Flynn or Pirates of the Carribean.... now the pirates have speedboats, machine guns, bazookas... terrorists and kidnappers on the high seas!

zinglicious
29-10-2009, 02:44 PM
One of the topics that my economics students look at is the economic benefits of military spending.

Effectively, military spending encourages the growth of the military-industrial-financial complex and provides job opportunities for lower-skilled citizens

basically, it is a government taking the easy way out to encourage economic growth. Bomb and rebuild, that kind of thing.

Farenheit 911 has a good commentary on how the poor and lower-middle class fund America's military expenditure and fight and die in America's wars...another good example is the scenes in the Civil War movie Glory, as well as Gangs of New York (the Irish Immigrants who are coopted into joining the Union Army).

Cheers, m

True, once I had a conversation with a US congressman, I popped a question to him. Why are the blacks demanding this and that, yet the govt seems to be liberal in giving the social aids where it doesnt seem to be productive in creating aor nurture them to be a useful society. His reply '' Son, we need soldiers and the well fed and educated people wont take up arms and fight. They asked we give, then when the time comes like war, it is time to ask them to give!

AllUrban
29-10-2009, 03:02 PM
Perhaps one big credit due is the role our armed forces eventually victorious and ending the Communist problem after decades. We have to be grateful that this country is safe and most of us rakyat haven't to suffer any civil wars. We DO NEED a proper army anyhow... maybe not as advanced as other developed countries but a decent and respected one.
PIRACY in the high seas around us... THAT'S ONE BIG 21st century problem!... Malacca Straits and SC Sea... East Malaysia... I hope the garmen does right!. Its no more the days of Captain Hook, Long John Silver, Errol Flynn or Pirates of the Carribean.... now the pirates have speedboats, machine guns, bazookas... terrorists and kidnappers on the high seas!Bslee, that is a good point.

I should have stated that the concept applies more to an offensive military (expeditionary force) rather than a defensive one.

At the same time ... a defensive military does not solve the problems that cause piracy ... Malaysia has a very effective coastal patrol force and the MMEA that is dealing with the piracy problem on our side of the straits ...

Air Superiority fighter/interceptors are not for dealing with pirates, but rather to maintain a show of strength against potential invaders ... but who are they worried about?

Cheers, m

Sentinel
29-10-2009, 03:05 PM
One of the topics that my economics students look at is the economic benefits of military spending.

Effectively, military spending encourages the growth of the military-industrial-financial complex and provides job opportunities for lower-skilled citizens

basically, it is a government taking the easy way out to encourage economic growth. Bomb and rebuild, that kind of thing.

Farenheit 911 has a good commentary on how the poor and lower-middle class fund America's military expenditure and fight and die in America's wars...another good example is the scenes in the Civil War movie Glory, as well as Gangs of New York (the Irish Immigrants who are coopted into joining the Union Army).

Cheers, m
Your economic students should be encouraged to read the 'original' book on economics theory ie "The Wealth of Nations" as written by John Maynard Keynes. The economic consideration has always been 'money for bread or money for guns' and economic growth should be by enterprising on bread and not guns. It was only the lter day politikus who took the short cut... especially that tiny little guy with a half-grown moustache Adolf Hitler...

cskok8
29-10-2009, 03:32 PM
For aircraft, military or civil, 15 odd years is still relatively new. If you go the the USA, most of the domestic flights are still using Boeing 727s or DC-9s; most of which are older than the pilots flying them. In the USAF inventory I am sure there are more than 50% of aircraft older than 15 years. This includes "front-liners" like the F15, F16, F18 (early marks), A10, B52. So the excuse that it is getting old and difficult to maintain is pure BS. It is just more lucrative to buy new ones than to maintain the current fleet (read more commissions).

The same goes for ships. The MV Doulus (floating bookshop that Muslims are not allowed to board) is about 90 years old. Whereas for our RMN, even before the fire has been put out and damages assessed our dear minister already announced that we are going to buy a new ship to replace it. :mad:

zinglicious
29-10-2009, 03:44 PM
Now, that sound very fishy about the Malaysian navy boat! Somebody is getting a new Ferrari for broking fees to accquire another boat.
No smoke, no fire or no fire, no smoke :confused:

USJ27Resident
29-10-2009, 04:23 PM
Said it once, say it again... Military spending is nothing but a big wayang where brokers and middlemen make millions in commisions and the public is fed this bull about national defence requirements.
Like u guys hv forgotten about the unintentional admission to the multi-million commisions for brokering the purchase of the two French made subs!

firefox
29-10-2009, 04:31 PM
Are we going to send another man to space with the help of the Russians?

USJ27Resident
29-10-2009, 04:36 PM
Said it once, say it again... Military spending is nothing but a big wayang where brokers and middlemen make millions in commisions and the public is fed this bull about national defence requirements.
Like u guys hv forgotten about the unintentional admission to the multi-million commisions for brokering the purchase of the two French made subs!

lohmee
29-10-2009, 04:37 PM
Are we going to send another man to space with the help of the Russians?

Our 2nd man is in training in Russia at the moment - probably realised that Msia need to buy new "ticket" (read: planes) for him to go jay-walking in space :D

cskok8
29-10-2009, 05:18 PM
The going price for one space tourist ticket is USD 20 to 25 million. No need to spend billions.

bslee
29-10-2009, 05:29 PM
Like u guys hv forgotten about the unintentional admission to the multi-million commisions for brokering the purchase of the two French made subs!

Malaysia mudah lupa LAH!... always the case. They let u rant what you like, even riot (you riot more, you face offence charges, kena fine or behind bars, who suffer?...NOT them..life goes on quite sweetly) about it then case forgotten in no time... perhaps its quite typical local phenomenon, thats why they remain what they are...in more times unaccountable to you, me and 25 million other rakyat.

tupai
29-10-2009, 05:33 PM
...

...It is said that the F-16s in Perth and Taiwan can reach Singapore in around 2 hours in case of an attack on the island state...


...and a complete fully armed squadron from the arizona to spore within 16hrs
or less :eek: :eek:

Yang Bershivering scary cat latotupai :eek:

p/s I was watchinga russian network tv..wheer the most recent Yanky space tourist went witht the cosmonauts to a space station for 9days .. the package is USD15million or sumthin like that or even less...

Sentinel
29-10-2009, 05:47 PM
...and a complete fully armed squadron from the arizona to spore within 16hrs
or less :eek: :eek:

Yang Bershivering scary cat latotupai :eek:
Yup... guided by two airborne AWACS and mid-air refuelling from KC-135 tankers....

Singapore has 4 AWACS and two are airborne at any time of the day...

If you look at the last stretch of the PIE expressway towards Changi, you will notice the stretch has no road divider but instead they use bourgainvillae plants in movable pots as road dividers and the lamp posts are foldable types... thats their emergency airport strip should you destroy either Changi or Paya Lebar. Another stretch is the end stretch of Ayer Rajah Expressway (AYE) at Second Link... similiar design....

Fabe18
29-10-2009, 05:51 PM
On the other hand, maybe it's not a bad thing for Malaysia to get invaded.. hahaha.. Either by Thai or s'pore... :p

firefox
29-10-2009, 06:35 PM
On the other hand, maybe it's not a bad thing for Malaysia to get invaded.. hahaha.. Either by Thai or s'pore... :p

Indonesia dont need planes to invade lah! we can give them a walkover and many of them are already here.

bslee
29-10-2009, 06:43 PM
Hey, hey, back to the aircraft issue, remember the old Nuri heli?...wonder how many the airforce actually have and how many are still fit for duty and how long more, they're so old and like flying antiques. Yes, possibly still a functional heli but perhaps more expensive to maintain and operate compared to new and more modern heli's. But than again, if they announce a huge sum to replace them all or progessively, it may yet again incur the wrath of the taxpayer.
SO YOU SEE, MALAYSIA DOES NEED LOTS OF MONEY ANYHOW TO PROGRESS OR CONTINUE THE MAINTAINING PRESTIGE. YOU CAN'T SAY "HEck..Go print more money lah!"

Fang Su
29-10-2009, 07:22 PM
Your economic students should be encouraged to read the 'original' book on economics theory ie "The Wealth of Nations" as written by John Maynard Keynes. The economic consideration has always been 'money for bread or money for guns' and economic growth should be by enterprising on bread and not guns. It was only the lter day politikus who took the short cut... especially that tiny little guy with a half-grown moustache Adolf Hitler...

As far as I know, The Wealth of Nations was written by Adam Smith.

Sentinel
29-10-2009, 08:18 PM
As far as I know, The Wealth of Nations was written by Adam Smith.TQ for the correction. :D

keny
29-10-2009, 08:28 PM
don't compare with Spore lah...it's natural that they're always on their toes.

yes Spore got 4 Airbase each with about 200 fighter aircrafts, but ALL within range of Malaysia artillery and mortars. Not to mention the Astros Multiple Rocket Launcher which ONE vehicle is enough to fire hundreds of bomblets that make runaways/airport/control tower destroyed. There are about 30 of them scattered all over Johore. Each takes 12 seconds to fire before moving to another position.

none of their gun can reach our airbase in Sg Besi or Kuantan.

but why attack Spore? Johore MB Ghani will be pissed off because Sporean spent RM 0.5 million daily shopping in JB. That's just shopping,not trade or banking or business. Everyone loves a neighbouring country like that.

tupai
30-10-2009, 02:02 AM
i had the privilege to spend an evening in the SAF officer's mess...after many whisky, tongues loosened...they are vvvvvv very confident to be in Tamping in 6hrs with the other armed forces fully grounded and ready to bloody our nose! Everybody will be the loser...

except my rich spore fren who with his family & conscripted son will be on their private plane enroute to his choice of 3 countries!

Yang Benar2 takut latotupai

keny
30-10-2009, 08:22 AM
where on earth is Tamping?

xaviers
30-10-2009, 08:24 AM
TV3 on SU30MKM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPI7u1cAwrs)

lohmee
30-10-2009, 09:12 AM
where on earth is Tamping?

Near Termeloh, Pahang - wah, Spore SAF so confident can come up so high past Johor, NS, Melaka, up to mid-Pahang and maybe mid-Selangor huh ???? in 6hrs - use PLUS highway ??? Don't forget to pay toll for all your trucks, tanks, HGVs (heavy goods vehicles) etc etc ....... :p :D

Msian Govt charge DOUBLE for HGVs and unlicenced passenger (soldiers) vehicles without permit hahhahaha .... :D - and speed limit don't forget, plenty of speed traps along the southern stretch of PLUS, ALL traffic summons also must pay !! - apart from that, come -lah, more the merrier - make more money - :D hahaha ....

keny
30-10-2009, 10:14 AM
no need to attack Singapore lah...we create Wilayah Iskandar, which is bigger than Singapore... give special privileages just for them. UMNO crying over abolishment of 30% bumi equity for Sporean to buy land, set up companies in Iskandar. Special rate for housing scheme for Sporeans and even fancy burial lands.

they have suffocated enough being crowded and drinking urine recycled NEWATER. More and more are moving here to feel living on landed property. Even PM Lee Hsien Leong admitted he and family spent most weekends strolling the streets off Melaka.

so we just bomb Wilayah Iskandar or PDRM police go house from house handcuffing them....deprive them to serve with their army. a nation of Spore with lowest birth rate in the world need every citizen to defend itself.

and those bespectacled NS soldiers??? let our PDRM spent half an hour interrogate them and they blurt out everything about their army unit.

Sentinel
30-10-2009, 10:35 AM
no need to attack Singapore lah...we create Wilayah Iskandar, which is bigger than Singapore... give special privileages just for them. UMNO crying over abolishment of 30% bumi equity for Sporean to buy land, set up companies in Iskandar. Special rate for housing scheme for Sporeans and even fancy burial lands.

they have suffocated enough being crowded and drinking urine recycled NEWATER. More and more are moving here to feel living on landed property. Even PM Lee Hsien Leong admitted he and family spent most weekends strolling the streets off Melaka.

so we just bomb Wilayah Iskandar or PDRM police go house from house handcuffing them....deprive them to serve with their army. a nation of Spore with lowest birth rate in the world need every citizen to defend itself.

and those bespectacled NS soldiers??? let our PDRM spent half an hour interrogate them and they blurt out everything about their army unit.
In modern wars, the perpetrators will suffer as much as those under attack. You may destroy Singapore in an attack, but what will be left of Malaysia when the counter-attacks come?

You have 4 airbases (Butterworth, Gong Kedak, Kuantan and Sg Besi) with 30 Sukhoish, they have Perth, Taipei, Arizona Desert, Singapore with close to 160 F-16s and F-15s. You have 19 aging Nuri Helicopters, they have 80 Super Pumas and 60 Apache Attack Choppers. You have 1 submarine and 1 more coming, they have 4 probably alreadyb parked outside Penang, Kuantan, KL and Putrajaya.... They have 4 AWACs and they have 2 KC-135 Super Tankers.... what do you have?

Don't misjudge the stength of another just because you are prejudiced against them. Size of a country does not matter... firepower does. Look at Israel, surrounded by at least 10 sworned enemies with billions of oil dollars to dispense, yet they are still in existences...

AllUrban
30-10-2009, 11:15 AM
Indonesia dont need planes to invade lah! we can give them a walkover and many of them are already here.so why didnt they invade as promised ? :D

Cheers, m

AllUrban
30-10-2009, 11:16 AM
i had the privilege to spend an evening in the SAF officer's mess...after many whisky, tongues loosened...they are vvvvvv very confident to be in Tamping in 6hrs with the other armed forces fully grounded and ready to bloody our nose! Everybody will be the loser...

except my rich spore fren who with his family & conscripted son will be on their private plane enroute to his choice of 3 countries!

Yang Benar2 takut latotupaiAs usual...even in the land of meritocracy, the rich leave and the poor fight.

Cheers, m

keny
30-10-2009, 11:52 AM
[QUOTE=Sentinel][SIZE=3][FONT=Arial Narrow]In modern wars, the perpetrators will suffer as much as those under attack. You may destroy Singapore in an attack, but what will be left of Malaysia when the counter-attacks come?


few years ago The Army brings all their guns and tanks etc for display at Sunway College...students and public have great days taking pictures and discussing military day with them. me too with frends spent many hours there.

artillery soldiers there said the answer to defeat Spore is not Air Force but lots of artillery which can hit as far as Sentosa Island. yet Singaporeans laughts at our outnumbered jets.

How can a plane take off when the airbase especially when the control tower is destroyed? Even if they can take off, fight, then where can they land to rearmand refuel?

don't tell me the first salvo of all artllery and rocket launchers...none will hit all the 4 Airbase + Changi + Seletar + highways which SAF trained to land their jet? Just one burning car on the highway is enough to make it unless.

counter fire? are they at the same spot 15 seconds later? they can go far away for the next firing position. if fact, Spore is enclaved by Johore and bomb shells can come flying onto the island from east and west, besides the predictable north.

jets fromTaiwan/ Australia? They will be carrying fuel pods and very little bomb for a journey that far. after that,where they land? enough fuel back to Taiwan or Australia?

some soldiers even challenge college kids there to mark TEN, just TEN spots to hit at Singapore elevated highway, MRT rails, bridges which caused the whole island land traffic to jam with burning cars etc. NS who are office workers, traders need MRT, roads to go to their camps to get weapon. paramedics needs to remove bodies from highways, tow trucks need roads, army vehicles need road to go repair the burning airbase.

every college kids there, can mark TEN spots on Spore map to put the traffic to a standstill. i am sure you can too.

trex92
30-10-2009, 12:06 PM
it's not about the jets too old nor the cost of maintenance too high but rather I sense that some one's wallet would be getting bigger, and perhaps another cosmonaut going to space... :D

tupai
30-10-2009, 12:10 PM
As usual...even in the land of meritocracy, the rich leave and the poor fight.

Cheers, m

the rich worldwide (with conscription as a must-do) learn from the usa lah...the poorest/marginalised folks there are the blacks. They get special this & that etc, being only 12% of the population, they constituted more than 25% of the armed forces

(read http://www.moaa.org/magazine/February2003/f_race.asp)

go figure...

Yang Boleh get-out-of-here latotupai :p

Jokee
30-10-2009, 12:11 PM
I have friends and relatives in Singapore and I would not picture to be in war with them. Same goes for those who have friends worldwide. In a war, everybody suffers, even if you are winning because money, reserves and also UN sanctions will be detrimental in the long term. Why suddenly the ego of proving our weapon superiority in this thread?

Minuteman
30-10-2009, 12:13 PM
We need not worry about Singapore and neither does Singapore worry about us. We depend on each other too much. Do you think Singapore will invade us? They can't handle the nightmare of millions of M'sian under their control. They don't have that kind of resources and ability. Their arms build-up is a "bitter pill" defense.

However should there be any "future" military flareup scenario in this region, it would probably come from Indonesia. They have sounded the "war drum" a few time over Sipadan, Arceh (our involvement), treatment of their people over here and the Confrontation period (60's). They are quitely building up lately with SU30/33 purchases, Russian Subs and naval boats. There are getting really friendly with the Chinese as they (Chinese) are interested to setup naval facilities/ support in Surabaya to support their presence in future expansion (perhapes to the Indian ocean).

Sometime people forget that we need to arm ourselves as the time to prepare for war is very long yet war can breakout anytime (just check the world history). Even though if we are given 1-2 years in advance before any military skirmish were to breakout, the time to order aircraft/ ships/ subs or armoured vehicle is at least 3-6 years, not forgetting human training and competency. By then everything is over. A nation who is "under armed" will always look delicious to their neighbours, just like Kuwait was to Iraq, no matter how friendly they are to us. Kuwait helped Iraq during the Iran/ Iraq conflict.

When resources are scare and limited, everybody will look after themselves first. If the world were to have a massive oil/ gas/ food/ water shortage suddenly and nations existence are threaten, overnight our country will look too good to be true.

However, we must never overspend on things which do not really give us much return on investment. Cut the red tape and spend in a prudent level. Even the Swiss have an armed forces which is quite well equipped (F18s as well). The Aussies (who is so far away from everybody, except Indonesia) is also well armed as well.

Sentinel
30-10-2009, 01:53 PM
[QUOTE=Sentinel]In modern wars, the perpetrators will suffer as much as those under attack. You may destroy Singapore in an attack, but what will be left of Malaysia when the counter-attacks come?


few years ago The Army brings all their guns and tanks etc for display at Sunway College...students and public have great days taking pictures and discussing military day with them. me too with frends spent many hours there.

artillery soldiers there said the answer to defeat Spore is not Air Force but lots of artillery which can hit as far as Sentosa Island. yet Singaporeans laughts at our outnumbered jets.

How can a plane take off when the airbase especially when the control tower is destroyed? Even if they can take off, fight, then where can they land to rearmand refuel?

don't tell me the first salvo of all artllery and rocket launchers...none will hit all the 4 Airbase + Changi + Seletar + highways which SAF trained to land their jet? Just one burning car on the highway is enough to make it unless.

counter fire? are they at the same spot 15 seconds later? they can go far away for the next firing position. if fact, Spore is enclaved by Johore and bomb shells can come flying onto the island from east and west, besides the predictable north.

jets fromTaiwan/ Australia? They will be carrying fuel pods and very little bomb for a journey that far. after that,where they land? enough fuel back to Taiwan or Australia?

some soldiers even challenge college kids there to mark TEN, just TEN spots to hit at Singapore elevated highway, MRT rails, bridges which caused the whole island land traffic to jam with burning cars etc. NS who are office workers, traders need MRT, roads to go to their camps to get weapon. paramedics needs to remove bodies from highways, tow trucks need roads, army vehicles need road to go repair the burning airbase.

every college kids there, can mark TEN spots on Spore map to put the traffic to a standstill. i am sure you can too.
You seem to know a lot and write a lot and yet you are asking a lot of questions? Fuel pods? Did you not read about KC-135 tankers? Or did you not heard of the US 7th Fleet in the Pacific?

keny
30-10-2009, 04:35 PM
You seem to know a lot and write a lot and yet you are asking a lot of questions? Fuel pods? Did you not read about KC-135 tankers? Or did you not heard of the US 7th Fleet in the Pacific?


Well,those artillery guys told us,as my friends (one Singaporean) were provocking them. These guys very upset because when it came to war with Spore its always about jets and pilots. They envied the pilots high salary and lots of training with expensive toys, while the artillery men slog it out on the land. In reality, he said just his unit can stop all Sporean jets flying and he got all the airbase coordinates in his head. There are many way to stop a jet, but no way to stop artillery projectiles/bomb.

As it rained on airbase 3 things happen to jets;
-some manage to take off, but cannot land later
-some burnt on the runaways
-some safe in bunkers, afraid to come out

those manage to take off, what do they proritize?
1.fight against TUDM?
2.find those ground artillery on Johore?
3. or go fly to Kuantan to bomb airbase?

I don't know what its called, maybe fuel tank/pds. Jet carry only 3 things, Air missile, bomb and fuel tank. But when facing our TUDM jets, they will be forced to drop the fuel tank and bomb so that their planes are agile for dogfights. if they survive dogfight, they don't have bomb anymore.

I heard about air-refueling...but I never heard you can arm a jet with new bomb and missile on air. correct me if i'm wrong.

conclusion;Spore is every Army General's dream target. Dense, within artillery reach, interlinked road plus citizen army which need to leave their workplace and report to camps.

about the Expo, it later caused a big roar with the college as some students posed with anti-tank weapon aimed at the College Financial building, shouting cut our fee or else...the photo later appeared in sort of newspaper which the management was not amused.

Sentinel
30-10-2009, 04:46 PM
conclusion;Spore is every Army General's dream target. Dense, within artillery reach, interlinked road plus citizen army which need to leave their workplace and report to camps. Yet no one dare even to try...

Keny, I realised all your infos are obtained from one exhibition at the college... so lets cut off this discussion because its getting us no where. You have already got a pre-formed opinion so thanks for your time anyway...

cskok8
30-10-2009, 07:26 PM
[QUOTE=Sentinel][SIZE=3][FONT=Arial Narrow]In modern wars, the perpetrators will suffer as much as those under attack. You may destroy Singapore in an attack, but what will be left of Malaysia when the counter-attacks come?


few years ago The Army brings all their guns and tanks etc for display at Sunway College...students and public have great days taking pictures and discussing military day with them. me too with frends spent many hours there.
Island.

Tanks?? Since when does the Malaysian Army have tanks. OK we have some old Scorpion light tanks hidden away in Kota Belud, Sabah. Then there are some armoured personnel carriers with tracks and small guns that probably look like tanks. So they go round and parade these to civilians and pretend to have main battle tanks.

HTCHONG
30-10-2009, 08:01 PM
Originally, this thread was about SU-30MKM and I do not know how this discussion evolved to become a military attack on Singapore by Malaysian armed forces.

Foremost, I have never favour war. I am an ex-Malaysian and now a Singaporean with my parents, sister & brothers and their family in Malaysia. Should war erupt between Malaysia and Singapore, it does no good to all of us. Frankly, both countries are depending on each other.

For your information, in Singapore there is this so-called Total Defense. The Total Defense comprises 5 pillars, they are,

(a) Military Defense – Singaporean keeping Singapore secure.

(b) Civil Defense – taking care of your family, friends and people around you in time of crisis.

(c) Economic Defense – working and saving to achieve a better life for everyone.

(d) Social Defense – living in harmony, looking out for one another.

(e) Psychological Defense – Being a Singaporean and proud of it.

With regard to Military Defense, I am not an expert whatever mentioned below is based on a book published in year 2000, i.e, “Defending the Lion City - the armed forces of Singapore” by Dr. Tim Huxley who has research interest on South-East Asian politics, international relations and contemporary political history with special reference to Malaysia, Singapore and Brunei and civil-military relations. This book is part of a series which examine the military capabilities of Asian countries.

http://www.ebooks.com/ebooks/book_display.asp?IID=301636

http://www.hull.ac.uk/seas/staff_tim.html

The author commented that Singapore adopted an offensive strategy called Pre-emptive strike which is a realistic option for this tiny island republic.

In the book, he mentioned....” In year 2000, the potential mobilized strength of the SAF stood at 350,000 personnel. By comparison, the Malaysia Armed Forces totaled only about 145,000 personnel, although 105,000 of these were regulars.”. Meanwhile, SAF's crucial strength lies in its armored force and air force.

Huxley also mentioned SAF with its highly educated soldiers, high-technology equipment and synergistic relations among the three services yielded important military advantages over Malaysia or any other potential adversaries”…

http://www.littlespeck.com/content/security/CTrendsSecurity-030114.htm

If you find it interesting you can buy the book but all these comments are from the author. How true it is, nobody knows. However, to test it out, I will say no…no. :) :) :)

USJ27Resident
31-10-2009, 12:35 AM
Tanks?? Since when does the Malaysian Army have tanks. OK we have some old Scorpion light tanks hidden away in Kota Belud, Sabah. Then there are some armoured personnel carriers with tracks and small guns that probably look like tanks. So they go round and parade these to civilians and pretend to have main battle tanks.

dude... malaysia actually has the PT-91 Twardy Main Battle Tank, an upgraded version (made in Poland) of the T-72 MBT. The PT-91 MBT is equpped with the Fire Control System consisting of Gunner Station. It basis on modernized TPDK-1 sight for day channel and optionally passive PCN-A sight or thermal imagining sight, which create night fighting capability. The fire solutions are calculated by the ballistic, digital computer which processes mixed set of information generated by set of sensors.

Still... I think all these money can be put to better use, especially when you still have MALAYSIANS that are begging for money to pay for their LIFE SAVING MEDICAL procedures... :mad:

bslee
31-10-2009, 12:40 AM
Still... I think all these money can be put to better use, especially when you still have MALAYSIANS that are begging for money to pay for their LIFE SAVING MEDICAL procedures... :mad:

Oh well...this budget offer more clinics here n there. Perhaps thats the best what they can offer... after that, you're basically on your own at the mercy of astronomical medical cost.

USJ27Resident
31-10-2009, 12:49 AM
Oh well.. at the mercy of astronomical medical cost.

ESPECIALLY when the company supplying the medicines had to "factor-in" the cost of a HIGH-END MPV !! :mad: :rolleyes:

...QUESTION IS, who paid for the MPV... who got the MPV and who name is the MPV registered to....???

Sentinel
31-10-2009, 12:54 AM
ESPECIALLY when the company supplying the medicines had to "factor-in" the cost of a HIGH-END MPV !! :mad: :rolleyes:

...QUESTION IS, who paid for the MPV... who got the MPV and who name is the MPV registered to....???theSUN has already conducted an investigation and has confirmed that it was not an Alphard but a Toyota Velfire 3.5... everything else matches... cheque, price, registration number etc.... but don't expect any action... this is Bolehland!

USJ27Resident
31-10-2009, 01:06 AM
theSUN has already conducted an investigation and has confirmed that it was not an Alphard but a Toyota Velfire 3.5... everything else matches... cheque, price, registration number etc.... but don't expect any action... this is Bolehland!

Goes to show - almost every thread that starts here ('cept for occasional fairy tale stories of crime) somehow ends up being very politicised... WHY??? because as citizens - we have been enlightened by the mismanagement and blatant misuse of our country's wealth and resources to the point that corruption is the LETTER HEAD of every contract and tender that the govt dishes out...

Who loses in the end... all of US.... and who gains... those idiots that some of us voted in, seating in the Parliament - hollering and bickering, that what they do - is for the betterment of all of us.... LIKE I BELIEVE that SANTA CLAUS is gay!!! :rolleyes:

You know what ... What I also realise that the very words "ATAS URUSAN SERI PADUKA BAGINDA" also means these idiots also misuse the KING's name when corruption is evident.

lohmee
31-10-2009, 07:54 AM
At the end of the day .... still typical Msian behaviour - ZERO MAINTENANCE CULTURE - just go buy new ones .... money grow from trees literally .... (oil palm) or grandfather's (ah kong) :D - and as always with Govt big-ticket procurement - sure exorbitant prices paid with accompanying seepages ... :D

Only way to change is to change Govt - cannot expect current Govt to change at all, (NATO - not action talk only), the rot has already set in too deep and taken roots too wide, like a weed, just have to yank them out (of power) !! Just imagine, they have talked about changing since 2008, and the recent Auditor-General Report for 2008 reported a possible seepages of RM28 BILLION - biggest ever - in fact, gives me the impression, they more the talk, the bigger the "makan" - inverse ("terbalik") effect !!

keny
31-10-2009, 10:57 PM
he,he...I love reading war forums and discussing with my Sporean friends.

in just ONE HOUR Malaysia can destroy Spore via artillery ;
without any Msian jet to go into Spore airspace
without any soldier stepping on Spore soil
without any tanks going in

I said DESTROY,not conquer;

we don't becoz we need Spore economically. Read what i wrote about IskandarRegion. No country would attack a neighbour which contribute towards its economic growth.Vietnam learn that it's better to be economic power than fighting all its neighbour.

i am just concerned that when it comes to war discussion with Spore, just like that Huxley book, it's always how many tanks/jets/soldiers we have against Singapore without seeing that, we can bomb their airbase, petrol dump,MRT rails, highways, dockyard in seconds because all within our range of artillery.Majority Malaysia thinks we have no chance against Spore.

Spore always said it got 350,000 civilin soldiers which can be mobilized,these people had undergone 2.5 years of NS...well Malaysia got 400,000 ex-soldiers who had spent their entire life in the Army voluntarily each at least 20 years of service. if we count old uncle who served in the British Army, that's a lot more.

ISrael which is expert in mobilizing civilian soldiers need 48 hours to do in the latest war with Lubnan. Spore can't mobilize or launch surprise attack because 300,000 Malaysia work and commutes daily to Singapore, they will sense something wrong when their colleagues are missing. Most Malaysia ex-army work as security guards in Spore. in fact I know when my Spore friends can't come to Subang this weekend becoz of their NS commitment.

Spore roars because it's afraid of Malay Moslem achipelago...it must spent biilions for arms and men lost 2 years of their life in NS. Soldier wise,arethey good? In recent years;

1. two F15 or F16 jet collide in South ChinaSea exercise? Collide on open sea? Crash because of technical failure is common,but collide on air????

2. some crew of Spore Navy ship killed and thrown aboard when itcollide with tanker? I thought their Navy sophisticated?

3. and of course....one leg Mas Selamat. Until today Spore beg Malaysia to return him so that they can study their weakness. No way!Every day Mas Selamat is being visited in his prison cell by our army,police,custom, commando etc. I heard he's being given special privileges for lecturing about Spore defence weakness.

Try to read all NS forum, most of them, when attached to active unit, will curse about the REGULAR soldiers laziness, incompetent in their units who treat NS part timers like dogs.

they are kiasu with their technology, just like Israel, but they don't have space/land t fight a war. Please lah, don't underestimate malaysia army.

AllUrban
02-11-2009, 02:40 PM
m is interested to know how Singapore will fight an electronic war, since many people believe that battles are now taking place in cyberspace before any military hardware engagements take place.

If I were a Singaporean trying to start an electronic war, I would begin with DDOS (Direct Denial of Streamyx) attacks on major servers. Then I would flood the Malaysian media with confusing ads about whether "to potong or not to potong." This would get the Malaysian Parliament stuck in such limbo discussing the commercials that they would not be paying attention to what is going on.

In addition, I would wipe out the software that controls the ITIS traffic information billboards in the Klang Valley and all along Malaysian highways.

If successful, this would work in such a way that Malaysians would not know that they were under attack.

In fact, they would think it is just SOP when actually, it is SOL. :D

Cheers, m

ps. of course, Im not a commander in the Singapore military...or any military for that matter...so I probably dont know what Im talking about.

bugbear
02-11-2009, 03:58 PM
To continue on this thread of thought, i think singapore is vulnerable to a EMP bomb right over their airspace. With that all their elecrtronic equipments go kaput. End of story. Problem is how to get a EMP bomb?

AllUrban
02-11-2009, 04:55 PM
To continue on this thread of thought, i think singapore is vulnerable to a EMP bomb right over their airspace. With that all their elecrtronic equipments go kaput. End of story. Problem is how to get a EMP bomb?not sure how well it would work...a lot of Singapore's major electronic and other hardware is now situated in underground caverns.

Cheers, m

USJ27Resident
02-11-2009, 05:35 PM
To continue on this thread of thought, i think singapore is vulnerable to a EMP bomb right over their airspace. With that all their elecrtronic equipments go kaput. End of story. Problem is how to get a EMP bomb?

EMP??? sheeesh!! do you really know what an EMP is... it is an 'electromagnetic pulse' - something that only happens when a nuke is set off... hahahaaa... i can only imagine - some bloke letting go a nuke hoping to fry all the electronics in S'pore not knowing that our hero is also gonna fry all the electronics on the M'sian side... :rolleyes:

Guess usj forummers make good military strategists as well.... LoL... !!!

Sentinel
02-11-2009, 05:38 PM
Our brader Bugbear thinks its okay because he is in far end of the land below the wind... so nothing will touch him or his family anyway because they are also below the wind... :D

Fabe18
02-11-2009, 07:14 PM
Still on the topic of Malaysia vs spore???

Another off-topic here, after the Great Depression, USA had trouble rebuilding its economy until they got involved in WW2. Increased demand for anything military-related created jobs and spurs the economy. WW2 worked well for USA economically as the war wasn't happening in their own land, except for the outpost of Pearl Harbour.