PDA

View Full Version : "Proton Not a Lame Duck" says Chairman Nadzmi



Sentinel
05-10-2009, 12:56 PM
"We are looking for collaborations with other parties but Proton is not a lame duck" says Proton Chairman Nadzmi Salleh. Okay, then how come you manufacture a car (Proton Jumbuck Utility) that only scored 1-star rating in a crash-tesh by the Aussie government? Here's THE REPORT (http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/drive/proton-gwm-utes-fare-poorly-in-ncap-crash-tests-20090928-g91a.html) that says it all...

Malaysian motorists continue to pay high duty just to drive simple imported sedans like Sentra and Vios and Civic just to keep Proton from drowning and here you produce a car that failed a simple crash test... are we going to be subsidizing more of these follies?

bslee
05-10-2009, 01:13 PM
AFAI remember, various Proton models (Waja I think) exported to UK were modded to confirm to stricter safety standards, whilst little or none of significant improvements for local. They also were fitted with airbags as standard whilst local ones were if the buyer pays a higher price. Here, PRICE matters, whilst safety features can be deliberately compromised. A Malaysian life is CHEAPER I assume.
WE DON'T NEED A NATIONAL CAR!.. Malaysians don't see the NEED TO PROTECT the National car. 2 and a half decades already, and its getting absurd isn't it?. Your parents protect you till you grow up to your teens and then you fend for yourself. Here, protection is like no end to it. Other ASEAN countries don't have or don't see a need for National car, and ours are thriving on protection. Its all with political implications and to any Malaysian rakyat disappointment and total discouragement to owning a better car than the national makes. Its all politically implicated..period!. I bet protection will still go on even if they sell few locally but have a profitable export market. Gahmen wins both ways, heads I win, tails you loose, and the rakyat still carry on paying hefty price for better makes of cars. TRUE OR NOT? or everyone ignoring whats going on!. High cost of car ownership is NOT going to be cheaper. They NEVER intended it to be so.

HTCHONG
05-10-2009, 01:16 PM
I told my friends that day, most of the Proton models have not change the design since they launched (may be some minor changes).

Take Proton Wira for example, this model exits since early 90 till today the model of the car remains its original design.

May be Proton’s management has great sentimental feeling... :D

bslee
05-10-2009, 01:28 PM
May be Proton’s management has great sentimental feeling... :D

Those Wira, Putra, Saga, are all overdated Mitsubishi designs and hardly anything significant have changed whilst typically any Japanese make would have leapfrogged in improvements in many areas. We're stuck with dated designs only with cosmetic differences and how can it withstand current or more rigorous safety standards? As I said, it doesn't really matter here. Price does and everything else ignored. Blame our mentality too for continuing to buy these dated products. W**a IS and WAS a terrible product anyhow!, new or even worse if a used car.

zinglicious
05-10-2009, 02:01 PM
Proton is not a lame duck but a dead duck Cant swim or quack iwhen it roasted like a peking duck in most auto review.

flamethrower
05-10-2009, 02:09 PM
Proton is not a lame duck but a dead duck Cant swim or quack iwhen it roasted like a peking duck in most auto review.
nope ..no chance to be a Peking Duck -you have to be young and healthy .
Rather it is best to be boiled in soup for many many hours with sour cabbage .

Rhiga
05-10-2009, 02:27 PM
Proton is not a lame duck but a dead duck Cant swim or quack iwhen it roasted like a peking duck in most auto review.

Well, it is an insult to my favorite Peking ducks….

The truth is - it is such a low quality material and it would not be able to be roasted into Peking duck, may be Pekan duck !!

zinglicious
05-10-2009, 02:29 PM
Old Proton Saga are fitted with Mitsubishi engines but new Proton Saga fitted with Lotus engines. Vroooooooooooooom? :D

zinglicious
05-10-2009, 02:31 PM
Well, it is an insult to my favorite Peking ducks….

The truth is - it is such a low quality material and it would not be able to be roasted into Peking duck, may be Pekan duck !!

Correcto! It is my oversight. It should be roasted Pekan Duck -dead yet still quacking, right?

Rhiga
05-10-2009, 02:44 PM
Correcto! It is my oversight. It should be roasted Pekan Duck -dead yet still quacking, right?

Absolutely, friend.

Even a Michelin 3-star cook will give out on this 20 years old ultra-pampered duck !!!

bslee
05-10-2009, 03:06 PM
Old Proton Saga are fitted with Mitsubishi engines but new Proton Saga fitted with Lotus engines. Vroooooooooooooom? :D

For most purpose, intent, reliability and longevity, I think the Japanese design and manufactured engine is still best. Japanese are far advanced in metallurgy and known for precision mechanics. Lets not put or confuse BMW and German marques into this equation as only the very wealthy can afford them or break the bank. I don't believe Lotus are going to fully transfer their entire expertise, technology and trade secrets to a bunch of Malaysian owners. They'd give you some bits and pieces at best, so do the Japanese. Still think Savvy had a extremely great engine ah?..I think its CRAP! Besides, every owner realize later parts are expensive. Anyway, there's no track record how long a Campro engine will last or how reliable it is under all and severe conditions in Malaysian roads and environment.
Primary purposes are what matters most for most Malaysian car owners.

cskok8
05-10-2009, 03:08 PM
Old Proton Saga are fitted with Mitsubishi engines but new Proton Saga fitted with Lotus engines. Vroooooooooooooom? :D

Wrong. Lotus does not and has NEVER made their own engines. They specialise in making chassis and has always sourced their engines from other manufacturers.

AllUrban
05-10-2009, 03:26 PM
Wrong. Lotus does not and has NEVER made their own engines. They specialise in making chassis and has always sourced their engines from other manufacturers.For example...yesterday m was reading about the new Lotus Elise which has a 1.8 L Toyota engine ... and over 250km/h top speed.

Cheers, m

sarawakian
05-10-2009, 03:28 PM
Proton is a LAME DUCK. Even Lotus cannot save the chassis! :D

Sentinel
05-10-2009, 04:09 PM
You guys are missing the big issue here:

WE ARE DRIVING CARS THAT FAIL A CRASH TEST! as can be seen from the report I posted above.

Not only are we paying through our nose but the car can't take a 40kmph crash test!

HTCHONG
05-10-2009, 05:11 PM
You guys are missing the big issue here:

WE ARE DRIVING CARS THAT FAIL A CRASH TEST! as can be seen from the report I posted above.

Not only are we paying through our nose but the car can't take a 40kmph crash test!

Ah...that remind me a piece of news reported by The Malaysian Insider....

"The World Health Organisation’s Global Safety Report on Road Safety 2008 states that Malaysia, with 16.8 million vehicles registered in 2007, averaged 3.7 road accident deaths per 10,000 vehicles. This makes Malaysia with the highest death rate per 10,000 vehicles in Asean. Indonesia has a rate of 2.6, Singapore (2.5), Philippines (2.1) and Brunei (1.8)."

As a matter of fact, Indonesia is doing not bad at 2.6. :D

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/index.php/malaysia/38603-electronic-enforcement-may-deter-speeding-and-reduce-road-accidents

Sentinel
05-10-2009, 05:36 PM
Are you attributing this high death incidence to Proton-made cars? :D

HTCHONG
05-10-2009, 05:47 PM
Cannot say like that lah..later kena sue till bankrupt oh.

You see ah..when I read the word “crash” it relates me to death. Then when I read the word “car” it relates me to road. Nothing lah :D

cskok8
05-10-2009, 08:28 PM
Aiyoh, Proton and Perodua build cars for us to drive, not to crash. So don't crash and you will be OK loh :rolleyes:

Raikonen
05-10-2009, 08:38 PM
Are you attributing this high death incidence to Proton-made cars? :D

Some statistician should actually do a study and find the correlation between fatal car accidents and proton cars....I wouldnt be surprised if he find something interesting...

Oh...Proton not a lame duck..i would associate it more with a headless chicken, at this juncture, directionless

Jey
05-10-2009, 09:43 PM
Of course its NOT a lame duck, its just a lame car. :eek: :D

bslee
05-10-2009, 09:51 PM
Of course its NOT a lame duck, its just a lame car. :eek: :D

That NOT the problem, you're always entitled NOT to purchase it. As bro Sentinel pointed out, it failed the crash test and yet it was rolled out. We Malaysians take things for granted on car features and documented data whereas other developed countries may subject it to stringent tests and requirements before allowing it to be sold. I don't think ANYONE in Malaysia will independently subject any local car to such tests and rebuke any manufacturer claims. ANyone did before?
I now wonder how Australia accepted it into the market (or are they also abit lax in this department) in the first place or did they find out just too late?

Raikonen
05-10-2009, 10:31 PM
Of course its NOT a lame duck, its just a lame car. :eek: :D

Perhaps they can name the next model...1Duck

Jey
05-10-2009, 11:15 PM
Perhaps they can name the next model...1Duck

Hahaha... its ALL 1Bull, I tell you one...
:D

kwchang
05-10-2009, 11:26 PM
Some statistician should actually do a study and find the correlation between fatal car accidents and proton cars....I wouldnt be surprised if he find something interesting...
Actually, such a statistical study is incorrect ... since the major brand of car on the road is Proton, you will find more fatal car accidents involving Proton. This is called a confounding factor. Perhaps you will need to work on the proportion of fatal car accidents involving Proton and then apply a correction in the analysis to factor in the proportion of cars of specific brands.

wira wan
06-10-2009, 12:05 AM
The Proton chairman statement is correct.

Proton not a lame duck, but a dead horse :)

USJ27Resident
06-10-2009, 12:36 AM
isn't it strange Malaysian pay almost double for a Waja/Wira/Saga here that foreigners would pay in their countries...

would you believe that the 'new' Waja is under RM36,000 in Saudi Arabia whereas here is RM55K plus! Don't ask what a Satria Neo cost there... Satria owners might just burn their cars tonite,.. :p

Goes to show - that even with a so called "local" car - Malaysians are being ripped off, big time... :rolleyes:

Oh ya,... I remember one Proton director was hear once, saying " ...the Proton Perdana is as good, if not better than the Nissan Camry..." sheeesh! talk about knowing your stuff... :p

zinglicious
06-10-2009, 12:59 AM
"We are looking for collaborations with other parties but Proton is not a lame duck" says Proton Chairman Nadzmi Salleh.
What he acutally meant was
"We are looking for collaboration with Donald Duck as Proton is not a lame duck. We cant swim and stay afloat the profit line but we can sure can still quack about it. Quack, quack, quack.....Old Mac Donald has a duck.....

AllUrban
06-10-2009, 09:52 AM
Many of you are entrepreneurs, business-minded people>>>

Simple question:

What would YOU do to improve Proton?

Would you focus on the management? On the product? On the trade relationships?

Cheers, m

HTCHONG
06-10-2009, 10:28 AM
Many of you are entrepreneurs, business-minded people>>>

Simple question:

What would YOU do to improve Proton?

Would you focus on the management? On the product? On the trade relationships?

Cheers, m

Lets focus on the management. If you get the right guys to manage, I can bet my last penny...things will be different. :D

mick123
06-10-2009, 10:48 AM
i think the new chairman is referring to Proton as a company and not the car as lame duck, no? it is already a known fact that the car version of it is a rip off, so there is no need for him to reemphasise on that. my very first car was the satria and after 6 months of driving it developed fuel pump problems. went back to proton to complaint and they had the chick to ask me if i put water into my fuel tank. from that day onwards, i would rather cycle than getting another proton.

bslee
06-10-2009, 11:20 AM
I won't be surprised if the two national car makers merge everything together to their every advantage in the near future. But if car prices in future are where it is now, we're all buggered anyhow and big time!.. everything points to behind the scene political involvement. We the rakyat are the loosers paying high price for car ownership anyhow.

Sentinel
06-10-2009, 12:46 PM
i think the new chairman is referring to Proton as a company and not the car as lame duck, no? it is already a known fact that the car version of it is a rip off, so there is no need for him to reemphasise on that. my very first car was the satria and after 6 months of driving it developed fuel pump problems. went back to proton to complaint and they had the chick to ask me if i put water into my fuel tank. from that day onwards, i would rather cycle than getting another proton.Nadzmi is not new to Proton... he is a recycled product... he was CEO in the 90s.

Jey
06-10-2009, 01:46 PM
You guys are missing the big issue here:

WE ARE DRIVING CARS THAT FAIL A CRASH TEST! as can be seen from the report I posted above.

Not only are we paying through our nose but the car can't take a 40kmph crash test!
Isnt that crash test only for Proton Jamban... err, sorry Proton Jumbuck right? Or is this rating for all Proton models? :D

Rhiga
06-10-2009, 02:38 PM
Actually, such a statistical study is incorrect ... since the major brand of car on the road is Proton, you will find more fatal car accidents involving Proton. This is called a confounding factor. Perhaps you will need to work on the proportion of fatal car accidents involving Proton and then apply a correction in the analysis to factor in the proportion of cars of specific brands.


I think a simple way is to use unit index to compare. For example, [fatality/100 Proton cars] vs [fatality/100 A cars].

In this case, it actually compare the number of fatality of Proton vs A brand car regardless of which brand having a higher populations on the road.

bslee
06-10-2009, 03:09 PM
Look lah, Most disastrous and fatal car crashes are quite horrific and I don't think most small to medium sized common local car would withstand the kind of impact likely resulting the car a near write-off or some fatality. Its not always a book case straight 40-50km head on bump.

Rhiga
06-10-2009, 03:24 PM
Look lah, Most disastrous and fatal car crashes are quite horrific and I don't think most small to medium sized common local car would withstand the kind of impact likely resulting the car a near write-off or some fatality. Its not always a book case straight 40-50km head on bump.

It is difficult to simulate collision with different directional impact force.

Nevertheless, a straight line collision impact/crash test provides a good indication of how good the vehicle frontal part is designed to create a crumble zone to withstand impact.

ksj_cool
06-10-2009, 03:27 PM
All proton cars have defects.

Sentinel
06-10-2009, 03:36 PM
All proton cars have defects.What did you say? Can't hear you lah... wait, let me wind down the windscreen... oh no, its stuck again, motor koyak again...

bslee
06-10-2009, 03:40 PM
All proton cars have defects.
I hope you don't mean all the car drivers are perfect?

Hahahahah..the power window fiasco!.. thats why I love my good old banger kancil WITHOUT power window. Hand winding power does fine with me!

BTW, anyone knows the truth WHY proton local sourced component parts failed so easily?.. of no-one dare to speak out?.

Sentinel
06-10-2009, 03:49 PM
BTW, anyone knows the truth WHY proton local sourced component parts failed so easily?.. of no-one dare to speak out?.Not in usj.com.my but elsewhere it has been debated for years...

Its a family car... every parts and components are contributed by companies owned by a family member... thats why!

zinglicious
07-10-2009, 03:47 AM
And how many employees are saudara saudari from Be End family circles? :p :p

zinglicious
07-10-2009, 04:04 AM
Many of you are entrepreneurs, business-minded people>>>

Simple question:

What would YOU do to improve Proton?

Would you focus on the management? On the product? On the trade relationships?

Cheers, m

I am being told the biggest asset in any company is not the hardware or the software. It is the QUALITY PEOPLE from managment to the frontline and linebacker that ensure hardware stays sturdy enough to withstand pressures and software goes flexible enough to solve problems. :D

besitai2007
07-10-2009, 09:24 AM
I own a Perodua Myvi considered our second National Car company. Since its purchase, I had to change the clutch plate (gears jammed), left drive shaft came off with loss of gear oil (don't know why), hot water exit hose for radiator leaking, odour of petrol in cabin when filling with petrol each time (leaky fuel tank hose) and lately knocking noise from boot on driver's side (was told calipers need silicon lubricant). Holding my breath for next problem. Also service centre at USJ 19 cheated me by not changing the gear oil and engine oil as they said in the bill. Checked at Perodua Glenmarie and found these things out. So service also su... Proton service centre at Glenmarie gave me a hard time when I used to own a Proton Wira.

So, ode to lousy1 Malaysia:
Proton cars lousy1
Perodua cars also lousy1
Service centre lousy1
PR at centres lousy1
Hot air politicians also lousy1
Live under times like these lousy1!

AllUrban
07-10-2009, 10:04 AM
I own a Perodua Myvi considered our second National Car company. Since its purchase, I had to change the clutch plate (gears jammed), left drive shaft came off with loss of gear oil (don't know why), hot water exit hose for radiator leaking, odour of petrol in cabin when filling with petrol each time (leaky fuel tank hose) and lately knocking noise from boot on driver's side (was told calipers need silicon lubricant). Holding my breath for next problem. Also service centre at USJ 19 cheated me by not changing the gear oil and engine oil as they said in the bill. Checked at Perodua Glenmarie and found these things out. So service also su... Proton service centre at Glenmarie gave me a hard time when I used to own a Proton Wira.

So, ode to lousy1 Malaysia:
Proton cars lousy1
Perodua cars also lousy1
Service centre lousy1
PR at centres lousy1
Hot air politicians also lousy1
Live under times like these lousy1!forget to mention the lousy roads1

Cheers, m

Erino
07-10-2009, 04:43 PM
Lets focus on the management. If you get the right guys to manage, I can bet my last penny...things will be different. :D

spot on! look at Nissan, few years back they were making billions of losses after their new CEO(from Renault) take over, they make tons of profits and fantastic car....proton stilll the same after so many year consistenly in red and lousy quality car :mad:

bslee
07-10-2009, 04:54 PM
spot on! look at Nissan, few years back they were making billions of losses after their new CEO(from Renault) take over, they make tons of profits and fantastic car....proton stilll the same after so many year consistenly in red and lousy quality car :mad:

OK.. so the management is changed, quality is upped by X10 or more, are we going to see RM8,000 Proton car affordable like Britons pay UK£8,000 (relative to their income and DON'T currency CONVERT) for a car? The answer will be a firm NO... and never will happen, so nothing will be achieved in future.. Just forget it lah!

mick123
07-10-2009, 10:02 PM
...... so the management is changed,........are we going to see RM8,000 Proton car affordable like Britons pay UK£8,000....for a car? The answer will be a firm NO...

that is because the invisible hands, which are the biggest and probably the root cause of the problem, are not removed........you can put the best minds in proton and yet nothing will ever happen because they will be puppets to these invisible hands..

.....their plants have state of the art hardwares but it operates just like jkr. so sad....

zinglicious
08-10-2009, 12:49 AM
MD said Proton is not lame duck - it is a singing duck. Here's the lyric -
Old Mat Proton has a car, ee yah, ee yah O, and in the car, it goes quack quack, E Ya, E Ya O.
Koyak here, koyak there, Everywhere koyak Old Mat Proton has a car, it goes quack quack , Koyak Koyak O! :D :D

What do you called a duck that is not moving ? Not a lame duck according to the MD. Sitting duck, perhaps? :D :D :D

besitai2007
08-10-2009, 08:41 AM
Proton cannot go under as malulah, Malaysia tak boleh. Also, consider the other downstream manufacturers linked to the Proton cars. No more opportunity to make big bucks and give you lousy parts.

Recalling how a Proton Wira car stinks:

Wira .. must drive slowly over a hump .. or else cruuuuuuummmp!
Driving beyond 110 km/h is a no no.. look out ..car backside starts to do a punggung dance and float like a butterfly!
Drove once to Ipoh..suddenly something spun off my car's back. Stopped and found that the rear spoiler had come off and was flying off like a plane!
Driving happily once in a tunderstorm, suddenly left window came down suddenly..and seat got soaked as I couldn't raise the darn glass! Window motor spoilt.
Side light often falls off ...attached spring. Stupid service people at Glenmarie did not reattach spring when fixing my car horn and it came off in KESAS highway. RIP one side light.
Horn doesn't work all of the time. Sent to Glenmarie ..came back to same.
Sends car at 7.30 am to Glenmariefor service ... 7.30 pm come to claim ..what not ready yet ah?
Want to complain about problems? Forget it, Proton receptionist have the worst attitude .. they (man or woman) just ignore you.
Tachometer lousy .. conked out after 10,000 km. Replacement .. conked out after 2 months..no warranty. Fed up just left it as it it.

What more is there to say?

1Proton for the people ..you must be joking!

Rhiga
08-10-2009, 09:17 AM
For CKDs car, roughly every dollar we pay for car price, 45-55 cents goes to gomen.

This is a huge revenue stream for gomen. NO WAY, car price in Malaysia will be on par with PPP (purchasing power parity) as in western countries.

HTCHONG
08-10-2009, 11:08 AM
.... are we going to see RM8,000 Proton car affordable like Britons pay UK£8,000.....

Probably you are subsidizing the overseas market. Bearing in mind, international market is an open market under fair competition so when Proton cannot beat other car makers in its car's features and design, then; in order to gain market share, proton got to sell at low price. This is so-called the “pasar malam” strategy- lerong, lerong !. :D

It wouldn’t be surprise if they are selling at loss. :p

bslee
08-10-2009, 02:13 PM
This is so-called the “pasar malam” strategy- lerong, lerong !. :D

Have you heard about a phenomenon called "inferiority complex"? I could think of numerous issues that boil down to this. Go figure!

Erino
08-10-2009, 03:46 PM
MD said Proton is not lame duck - it is a singing duck. Here's the lyric -
Old Mat Proton has a car, ee yah, ee yah O, and in the car, it goes quack quack, E Ya, E Ya O.
Koyak here, koyak there, Everywhere koyak Old Mat Proton has a car, it goes quack quack , Koyak Koyak O! :D :D

What do you called a duck that is not moving ? Not a lame duck according to the MD. Sitting duck, perhaps? :D :D :D

so lame but true :D

Sukdershan
09-10-2009, 05:55 AM
You guys are missing the big issue here:

WE ARE DRIVING CARS THAT FAIL A CRASH TEST! as can be seen from the report I posted above.

Not only are we paying through our nose but the car can't take a 40kmph crash test!
I really wonder whether TDM uses his proton regularly......... :confused:

isarahim
09-10-2009, 11:53 AM
Would you focus on the management? On the product? On the trade relationships?
The focus should be on

1. removing trade protections, which have damaging impact on the overall automotive industry.

2. selling it out to highest bidder.

Sentinel
09-10-2009, 02:55 PM
The focus should be on

1. removing trade protections, which have damaging impact on the overall automotive industry.

2. selling it out to highest bidder.
If they had accepted "collaboration" with Volkswagen 3 years ago, today we will be seeing better quality Proton-made VW Polo and Jetta and Passat like those you see on the roads in China streets... what to do, maruah lagi penting! What maruah is there in Proton anyway?

cskok8
09-10-2009, 03:32 PM
One of the "assets" of Proton is govt support. From the horse's mouth himself :rolleyes:

bslee
09-10-2009, 03:46 PM
Look lah... the fact is as long as Malaysians have a penchant for cars over many other things (even owning a much needed own home may not matter), used or brand new, the auto industry will continue to thrive, prosper and current high cost of ownership and costs will stay or gradually increase idefinitely. The gahmen relies in this heavily as it brings in much desired revenue in taxes.
They'd not care 2 hoots whether its maruah, semua or mesti boleh phenomenon or anything else. We can all curse till the cows come home and nothing will change, instead the cost of motoring and ownership goes up gradually nevertheless. Currently THERE'S NOTHING TO BEAT THE SYSTEM!..ITS ALL ASSOCIATED WITH POLITICAL strings. There you have it...Comprande? NOTHING ANYONE MORTAL CAN DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT! you all just cornered left right and center. I can start telling everyone , "DON'T BUY ANY CAR FOR NEXT 2-3 years", you think people listen?.. maybe 1 out of 1000 lah and it'll go one ear in the other ear out... forgotten in 2 seconds.

zinglicious
09-10-2009, 05:35 PM
If they had accepted "collaboration" with Volkswagen 3 years ago, today we will be seeing better quality Proton-made VW Polo and Jetta and Passat like those you see on the roads in China streets... what to do, maruah lagi penting! What maruah is there in Proton anyway?

Maybe VOlkswagon wants to fried the Chairman who they deemed as the lame and sitting duck? And also those who are in proton who are saudara and saudari of Be End? :rolleyes: