'Gated' Community in USJ [Archive] - United Subang Jaya Web Forum

lord

21-09-2009, 12:29 PM

This has become an unwelcoming trend of late. I thought USJ11 was the end of it until I saw a similar thing in USJ3 yesterday.

It is the responsibilities of our elected reps to bring it up in parliament and state assembly issues of security, not ours. And I understand Hannah has approved these gated communities. For a start, I think she is doing a horrendous job as and elected rep. She's probably good at tai-chi. Hey, if everything is left to the residence to decide, what the hell are you there for??? Go and and debate it in the state assembly or tell your bosses to bring it up in parliament. It has become a trend of USJ resident committees to take up law into thier own hands. No doubt you own your house, but you DO NOT own an inch outside your perimeter fence. You DON'T own the road in front of your property as well. As such, you DO NOT have the right to cordone off the access road.

I understand crime is an issue in our SJ/USJ. There are things like Nwatch and other ways to go about it. And USJ 11 has even went as far as fencing up. You can't do that, man. You do not own anything else other that what is within your perimeter fencing. You do not own the road. If you have a problem with ppl parking their cars opposite of Taipan, go and tell the authorities. Apply so much of pressure until they do something.

More importantly, you are not, by cordoning off access roads, reducing the number of crimes. Maybe in your area but you have indirectly diverted that statistics to other areas. Isn't that being selfish? Is this what people's power is all about? So, it is still the role of the authorities to handle crime. And that's why we have elected reps to do that job. Otherwise, why elect them?

I understand that MPSJ and Bomba does not approve of this road blocks for safety reasons. And of course, the police, our police is ever ready to nod such ideas as long as their workload can be reduced. But as a citizen and resident, I do not approve some other resident limiting my movements. Who are you to tell me where and how I should move around? These are public access roads and I have a stake on it just as much as you do.

The folks in these cordoned areas be prepared. I'm gonna get a few lorries to come and stop at these blocks at midnight and take the Jesus out of your lives with the honking!!! I'm serious. Some of you already know me. So, go ahead and sue me!!!

I have stalled traffic at USJ16 'guard-house' when they first started it. Go ask. I will repeat this thing again. I'm NOT gonna report to some foreigner where and why I'm going to a certain place. I DON'T NEED TO ANSWER TO ANYONE!!! It is my God given right to move freely. If you think I'm wrong, then, you are no better than the ones you point fingers at and call names for restricting you in other things.

my 2 cents worth...

Jey

21-09-2009, 12:48 PM

If our police farce have been actively doing what they were paid to do.... instead of being active in "other" areas that are political in nature, maybe the gated community idea might not be necessary? :D

ssusj

23-09-2009, 10:48 AM

"Yes you have God given rights to move Freely" I am not going to dispute that.Therefore My advise, if u cannot live with it, move on , go live somewhere else. God has given u the right to choose where to go. And In case u still dont understand why we did it or live with it, its bcos our Priority is Safety for our family, fellow neighbours, friends and that includes you if u drop by our neighbourhood(as u may have read what happen to Anita Sarawak when visiting her Mum's house). Peace of Mind is what we are seeking not whether legally it is right or wrong(but of course we have permission to do it.) Your threatening nature is indeed being heard and felt, but sad to say only by a few. The rest of us(majority) have LEARN to live and accept "Challenges" as part of our life. Again , my advise is pls try to compromise and accept that until such time our crime rate is controlled, all of us also have rights to PROTECT ourselves too. I assure you My "Lord", if u can try to compromise, u will live a more peaceful and less stressful life.
"The world is like a mirror, if you face it smiling, it smiles right back"

EricK

23-09-2009, 12:07 PM

Yes your are right Lord. How dare these selfish residents place their family safety over your right to move about freely... if criminals can move about freely and hurt other people.. so be it lar... after all you must move freely too...

security should be left to the police even though they are more keen on catching people holding candles and walking in big groups... after all that's what our tax money is for right... and our IGP service has been extended again showing confidence in our govt in his work in upholding security for you and me.

but then i guess those who get snatch theft and house broken into deserved it right lord?

USJ27Resident

23-09-2009, 12:46 PM

I understand crime is an issue in our SJ/USJ.

my 2 cents worth...

dude... relax la...

safety and security is the main issue la... since we cannot rely on our cops to ensure our family and home's safety... what is wrong if the resident takes the pro-active measure to ensure the safety of their homes and especially their families...

nobody wants to make life difficult... the fact is, (and will remain) for as long as the cops are busy playing hide and seek with traffic offenders and so-called protesters - they will never be enough of them (cops) to patrol our neighborhoods and keep them safe...

take it easy-have an Arthur brew on me... anytime!!

Jey

23-09-2009, 01:09 PM

bslee

23-09-2009, 01:12 PM

safety and security is the main issue la... since we cannot rely on our cops to ensure our family and home's safety... what is wrong if the resident takes the pro-active measure to ensure the safety of their homes and especially their families...

Pondering over it. ok lah.. safety and security may be top priority BUT I also suppose gating can also prevent "free parkers" who park their car anywhere along residential roads to the point its habitual, meaning these flers park for free whilst they work somewhere nearby like Taipan area. Like most opportunistic Malaysians, when can park free they simply find the spot to do so. Like in my area I don't think I'll see any gating in the near future as its one of the main access roads to the mosque, UNLESS they construct a seperate access road. SO!..everyday my front road is FULL of parked cars outsider owned cars who habitually park at the padang area. What can I do...NOTHING!. YEAH!. MPSJ used to come around slapping fines at my FRONT ROAD.. I OSO KENA too!.. Didn't really improve matters todate!
I'VE ALREADY SAID!..FINES AND SAMANS ARE NOT THE SOLUTION.. its only a revenue generating exercise! DOES NOTHING!

I suppose gating an area DO have some benefit. (disregarding some residents who object to this.
Could:
1. Prevent outsider parking here
2. Prevent unsolicited sales flers and unknown individuals lurking around for unknown purposes. Less sales phamplets and flyers in the postbox?
3. Prevent robberies and break-ins.
4. Prevent snatch thieves.
5. Anymore?..

My 2 sen... PERSONAL VIEW and may NOT reflect nor concur with other resident's veiws or opinions. I'm all for it actually.. We just have to accept drastic resident actions..OR just MOVE OUT to another safer location. We live in a COMPROMISED MALAYSIA!... NO doubt!

bslee

23-09-2009, 01:19 PM

... after all that's what our tax money is for right... and our IGP service has been extended again showing confidence in our govt in his work in upholding security for you and me.

I tell you all lah!.. WHAT this country needs is an IGP with the calibre of the late Tan Sri Eric Chia!... we're all NOT going to see anyone like him, not in the next half or two centuries!.

(YES, I KNOW HIM and KNOW HOW HE WORKS!...but lets NOT discuss nor derail the topic and the controversy that haunted him, I'm talking his management skill).

MasterQ

23-09-2009, 01:57 PM

"Yes you have God given rights to move Freely" I am not going to dispute that.Therefore My advise, if u cannot live with it, move on , go live somewhere else.
I am not against gated community per se. Asking lord to go live somewhere else is not only rude like one previous Home Minister who told the rakyat the same thing but sheer arrogant as well.

I am supportive of the G & G concept but not when K & K people think it is their right to do so. By the way K &K stands for Kiasu and Kiasi. I support G & G community if it can be managed properly without arrogance and without inconveniencing other road users be it anyone. Worst still if one of those who like lord resides in it. It is not a matter of majority rules. If something is illegal, even 99% agreeing to commit it is not going to make it legal. Just do the first thing first. Get your community gazetted as a gated community first then nobody even the Lord can complain about freedom of movement.

lord

23-09-2009, 04:02 PM

"Yes you have God given rights to move Freely" I am not going to dispute that.Therefore My advise, if u cannot live with it, move on , go live somewhere else.....

Since you want to live in a gated community, why not YOU go and live in one?!!! USJ/SJ is NOT a gated community like Kota Kemuning or its like.

I understand the need for security in our area given the influx of crime taking place. I'm not ignorant of that fact. What I am trying to say is you cannot simply gate and restrict your neighbourhood to your whims and fancies. This is down right illegal. You do not have a locus standii to do so. Admit that the road infront of your house is not yours. You do not spend the money to re-surface or repair the road. It's done with the tax-payers money. In that case, everyone has a right to that road. If everyone takes matters into their own hands, what happens next? Have a block at all entrances of SJ/USJ and take down their details?!!

If you are concerned abt the security in your neighbourhood, implement NWatch or RT instead of taking the easy way out by blocking roads.

You have a right to live here just as much as I do, even if I am against this concept. You and I didn't have an issue until you started this sh!t!!!

tupai

23-09-2009, 04:25 PM

hahahahah... ayam takin out the ground nuts. :D :D

the heat should be on the cops, their inefficiencies and wrong priorities. Not on each other K&K usj folks.

I pass the G&G in usjdunno whatarea..then i saw the poor baton-strapping sentry in the hot midday sun, under the limpy brolly, sitting on a pathetic plastic chair. I wonder where this poor chappie (looks like a foreigner to me) gonna go peeing or pooing? And what will happen if it really rain teruk, or can he really stop THAT camry with 3 parangchinese robbers?...Sorry ah, anyway, I am kay-poying only..not my bizz really. I dont live in usj :p

I wish u all well in the G&G.

Me? I take my chances with my trusted crossbow :p

Yang Bo G&G, Bo k&k latotupai :p

USJ27Resident

23-09-2009, 06:22 PM

If you are concerned abt the security in your neighbourhood, implement NWatch or RT instead of taking the easy way out by blocking roads.

You have a right to live here just as much as I do, even if I am against this concept. You and I didn't have an issue until you started this sh!t!!!

relax relax... don't go and blow a fuse, man - ain't good for the health... :D

Good idea, this RT/NW thingy - it fosters a neighbourly thingy, which in the end - everyone knows everyone... but... aha... question is, would everyone 'also' participate/ronda-ronda? Guess not... furthermore... RT & NW patrols - works usually at nite, when the menfolk comes home from work... but not 24hrs. :eek:

Lots of whatifs and whynots... but in the end, most would want an easy way out and getting at least another layer of security in the neighbourhood... only practical way seems to be this G & G concept... some may not like it, some may find it a nuisance/hassle but in the end - when there are no more incidences of carjacking or break-ins or even parang being put on the neck (oh yup... that happened to my wife's friend, right in front of my house in USJ 11)... wouldn't you agree that it an acceptable concept...

USJ27Resident

23-09-2009, 06:33 PM

MPSJ used to come around slapping fines at my FRONT ROAD.. I OSO KENA too!.!

Hahahahahaaaa... same thing happened to us... went for a birthday party@4pm at a friend's place in USJ9... finished about 9pm after a wonderful dinner... came out, only to find a string of samans on the windscreens... :D

Next day, went to MPSJ - blood boiled when the 'dumb' lady-OIC had this to say... "Encik dah kena saman... bayar aje la... kan dah bagi diskon 50%..."

:confused: what the.... :eek:

We told her,... please go draw parking lots in front/side/across my friends' house... then "mebbe" we would buy parking coupons... for next year's birthday makan...

btw - do you know for a fact - MPSJ staff are allowed entrance to USJ 11 to access the parking lots there (facing MPSJ complex... and its free/reserved for MPSJ ONLY!!) Same across the street in USJ6.

kwchang

23-09-2009, 10:54 PM

Lord,

I am sorry but no matter how angry you may be, you should not threaten to cause trouble at the gated-guarded premises. Making threats are not something very nice to do.

We did have someone on the Forum a long time ago (way before you joined) who threatened to harm or shoot another member just because he was angry with her style of arguments on the Forum. We had a huge problem when that happened. In those days we did not have rules for conduct and we did not know how to control arguments on the Forum ... I learnt very fast after that. Now I face a similar situation again, how do you think I would act?

The situation is a lot of house-owners and residents are really worried about the safety of their families. Early in the morning, you have thugs waiting to enter the house when the tenant opens his front door to pick up the newspaper .. you have thugs waiting for the tenant when she gets out of her car to open the gate, and gets abducted to withdraw money from the ATM ... what about the thugs putting a machete to the neck? ... what about the thugs who slash first, ask later?

Long lists of horror stories ... and you expect the RT or NW groups to be available to avert such problems? As someone rightfully said, RT and NW groups patrol at night and early hours of the morning ... but the thugs are now doing it in broad daylight.

I used to stay in USJ9 where we had a fantastic NW programme - we got 20-30 people coming for the midnight patrol when we first started. The sight would send shivers down the spines of any burgler wannabe. But after 6 months, I was wasting all my petrol delivering newsletters and slips of paper in their post-boxes, announcing our night walks ... nobody came except a bunch of friends. Eventually when the patrols dwindled to just 3-4 persons, we called it off.

The grand-father of all NW groups, was started by USJ18 (correct me if I am wrong) - they were the first ones to barricade all exits and formed the 'illegal' gated-guarded community. Perhaps USJ16 was the first or second community - they too resorted to this G&G solution. Then it was USJ17 .... Tell me why

Have you got a successful NW programme? Share with us.

bslee

23-09-2009, 11:31 PM

Next day, went to MPSJ - blood boiled when the 'dumb' lady-OIC had this to say... "Encik dah kena saman... bayar aje la... kan dah bagi diskon 50%..."
:confused: what the.... :eek:

This is EXACTLY why I whine this country's governance. THE LAW IS NOT ENTIRELY for your protection or not entirely TO YOUR ADVANTAGE and in fact WORKS AGAINST YOU in this classic case. This almost means you kena saman, it HAVE TO BE COUGHED UP ANYHOW...wrong or right doesn't matter and NOT the issue. Gate up the area and DON'T LET THOSE ENFORCERS COME IN TOO. Saman cars in a purely residential area is likely overstepping their actual objectives and maybe power abuse.

CS Chua

24-09-2009, 08:10 AM

I sympathizes with Lord (not his method) even though I understand why the community wants G&G. There has to be compromises by everybody. Residents of pro-G&G should advice their guards to be sensitive and devise ways to keep security without inconveniencing motorists. These are public roads and nobody has the right to stop a motorist, ask for his IC or driving licenses or personal questions etc. The motorist has rights too. If the motorist cooperates, the guards should be happy, be polite and allow the motorist to proceed instead of interrogating them until he is satisfied. Some are just too arrogant.

In my chosen area (where I am moving to) the guards allow motorists to move in and out freely but they patrol the area frequently. When I was house-hunting there and stopped to look at a house, one of them ride up to me to find out what is happening. I was impressed. Non-intrusive but effective. The guards should spend more time patrolling and keeping an eye on things.

One effective way is to video tape everyone as they drive through. It is non-intrusive and effective and only takes a few seconds each time. It captures the license number and the face of the driver. And it only needs to be kept for 24 hours in case a crime is committed (assuming the victim reports immediately like always). This is more effective than harassing bona-fide motorists.

Firebird

24-09-2009, 11:56 AM

I do get irritated, too, whenever I try to drive into those guarded places which are public roads in the first place. Stopping the car & starting it up again takes a toll on petrol consumption in the long run and winding the window up and down do cause wear and tear, killing off the power window faster. Not to mention wasting my time in convincing the guards that I'm going in with good intentions. :p But, I do understand what the residents are going through. Crime has been rampant especially in SJ/USJ. Our friends are resorting to this because it seems like it's the last option left to ensure their families and properties are protected. Which brings me to the next question. WHERE ARE THE POLICE? WHAT ARE THEY DOING? Some say the police dept is handicapped due to a lack of staff. But the thing is, we see a huge number of policemen present whenever the opposition political parties stage protests. So, that rules out lack of staff as being the reason. Then, what? :confused:

Jey

24-09-2009, 11:58 AM

One effective way is to video tape everyone as they drive through. It is non-intrusive and effective and only takes a few seconds each time. It captures the license number and the face of the driver. And it only needs to be kept for 24 hours in case a crime is committed (assuming the victim reports immediately like always). This is more effective than harassing bona-fide motorists.

The thieves and burglars of these days are not like those days. They get smarter by the minute. It is common for them to use false number plates or stolen vehicles in their crime rounds. So videotaping them are futile. After a crime has been committed they cannot be traced :eek:

Jey

24-09-2009, 12:24 PM

Also just to add to the discussion.... the place where I live, the crime rate is sky high... that was why I had taken extreme measures like sealing up the roof, security doors, gates, etc, etc. It is very common to get mugged just taking a walk around the neighborhood. Break-ins are so common, they are only to be expected. The police? The only time I saw swift action was when a bunch of people gathered to have a candle light vigil. Okay but that is another matter.

The point is this. It is only possible to have G & G when a minimum of 80% of the residents there agree to it. Then only the local council will approve. That is the reason until now we still don't get approval for G & G where I live. The residents association has held many meetings for this purpose. So what this tells us is that when we see G & G around any neighborhood, it shows a collective, one-minded decision of at least 80% of those residents in that neighborhood wanting G & G as their option of security. Its their majority will displayed in the form of G & G. They may not own the roads in their neighborhood, but they damn well have their rights to living in a safe, secure and crime-free environment.

:eek: :D

kwchang

24-09-2009, 12:46 PM

Jey,

Your observations on this single-mindedness of a local community in getting a G&G together says a lot. I never looked at it that way but what you say is very true ... the fact that a G&G had developed against all odds show that the local community is becoming united with one hope for safety and security. The fence and guards say something ... it says that the community is united and that is in itself a quantum leap in our suburban community living, a unity statement if you will.

Where I live, my good neighbours had successfully started our own G&G. Initially we were sceptical about our unity and camaraderie. Once the fence, barriers and guard post were in place, we were pleasantly surprised that a number of undecided residents have come up to join the programme. Do note that we do not force anyone, everything was on a consensus and voluntary basis. Now we are looking towards a closer community and getting to know our neighbours better. Before this, we had been living for years not knowing very much about our neighbours ... something quite the norm in our society but with the G&G, things are getting better for the community. Of course, there will be differences of opinion but if things are done right and with tolerance, the benefits go a very long way in building communities

Jey

24-09-2009, 01:00 PM

Yes, I bet many do not look at G & G as a collective will of the residents. I know there are some inconveniences involved but they are nothing compared to the benefits it brings as a whole. Nothing that the good old fashioned "give-and-take" policy that cannot handle. Tolerance, understanding, mutual respect... goes along way in community building. :D

CS Chua

24-09-2009, 01:16 PM

The thieves and burglars of these days are not like those days. They get smarter by the minute. It is common for them to use false number plates or stolen vehicles in their crime rounds. So videotaping them are futile. After a crime has been committed they cannot be traced :eek:
What about videotaping their faces? Does that not help? Which criminal wants to be videotaped? If any criminal knows that he will being videotaped, I am sure they will not think of trying that area.

I was in Mexico City recently and took a long distance bus to another town. Before the bus leaves the station, a lady came on board and videotaped every passenger. I guess this is to prevent undesirables from hijacking or robbing the passengers while enroute. I think it is a great idea.

SonOfSoil

24-09-2009, 05:41 PM

lord, how come you did not kick up a fuss when the gated & guarded schemes were implemented in USj 23, 24 and all those areas bordering Putra Heights? Those neighborhoods were the earliest ones in USJ to implement G&G. And they have fencing and even gates all set up for a long time now. You are one of those who thinks that the nation revolves around Subang Jaya. Well, reality check! Every other urban residential area in the Klang Valley have G&G in place, and the MAJORITY of residents want this. Not because we want to, but because we have no other choice!

Your motives are highly questionable, especially in dragging our hardworking elected rep, YB Hannah into this. Security & crime issues are the scope of our MP as it's a Federal issue. PDRM not under state la! In the face of an ineffective PDRM, I would expect our elected rep to facilitate the setting up of G&G, not object to it because our stupid Parliament is slow in responding to the need to legalize G&G!

jan tomaswaki

24-09-2009, 06:29 PM

I think alot of people mistook Lord's perception. His intention is why cover up the whole housing area.It looks like our country is not safe to even venture outside our home.It does not look very classy as the housing area in USJ is not worth even RM350K (average)I think the next time they will be hiring GURKHA guards with machine guns and bodyguards escorting our children to school,with bomb proof van, then the robbers think USJ/SJ is filthy rich......mark my words, that happens in Philipines,where the chinese do the same and the children got killed after ransom had been paid!I think Fed Gov/should RT and every must participate like the national service.

EricK

24-09-2009, 06:34 PM

actually i am puzzled by the restriction of movement part quoted by some posters.. what reason would an outsider need to go and drive around a G & G housing area? Short cut? ease of parking ? i have no reason to go to USJ23 and whatever it is that is guarded... so no complaint from me.. i don't think all the G &G area in SJ/USJ block a major throughfare..

Jennylim

26-09-2009, 05:16 PM

Lord, you got your points. I am sure when you bought your house, these places are not fenced or guarded, how can anyone asked you to move out of your house? That is really rude!

It is really irritating each time I send my son for games, tuitions, etc. I am stopped and asked what business I have there! It's like saying, if you don't live here, you are a suspect for robbery, house break-in, etc. ! This is an insult right? Why must I tell you what I want to do there?

Let's expand the scenario, from now on, if you don't live in USJ 9 housing area, you have no business going there, the residents there has the right to stop any outsider who uses the road because they are concern with the security in that area, and they stop you and ask you what business you have there, because you may be a security threat to them.

Now, if you expand this further, everywhere you go, gated or not, everybody think security first, so they have the right to stop anybody who doesn't live in their area. How would it be if you were to go to SS2 to meet a friend, you may be stop by many security conscious peoples along the way.

10 years down the road, all housing are guarded, either by paid personnels or house owners. The country is running short of guards, more foreign guards are needed, then, comes the inter-country negotiation for higher pay guards. Else no guards for your country.

15 years down the road, the government says, all those who don't contribute to housing guards now have to pay more tax. Because these people make the police more busy.

Now you are facing one security problem, instead of getting the right people to solve the problem, you are creating more problems for others.

Yes, some said these peoples are selfish, indeed they are!

New York's crime rate has reduced by 40% since year 2000. Do you really believe there is nothing we can do or the police can do about the crime rate in Malaysia or you just couldn't bother to get the MPs and government to act on this?

teamplay

26-09-2009, 05:55 PM

Yes, safety and security is important but it is really frustrating that we can no longer access roads for our daily routine. Now in the USJ11/3 area, the banner is out that they will permanently close a access point. We will now have to make one BIG round to send the kids to school. This is really frustrating. As has been said, we have every right to use the roads.

danbee

26-09-2009, 06:26 PM

I feel very piss off each time I try to get into the road that leads directly to my house and there is this barrier. I am 2 house away from that junction and I have to make a detour of about 1 km to reach my place.
What I think the committee should do is to arrange and place guards at important entrances point where they can allow cars to pass through to reach a certian place/house, instead of taking a big round about to reach his or her destination. I understand Lords feeling of frustration.ALL ENTRY POINT CLOSED EXCEPT ONE OR TWO OUTLETS. :(

teamplay

26-09-2009, 07:47 PM

besitai2007

26-09-2009, 08:05 PM

USJ 5 is another gated community. Theirs is well done and I envy them as I do not have the comfort of a fenced up area with security guards patrolling and manning the entrance and exit. A gated community like theirs is better as it doesn't interfere with the movement of others who are not in the community.

My USJ 6 area has the worst record in terms of crime. Besides the two kidnap-rape cases last year, for this year, my immediate neighbour's house was broken into at 11.00 am in the morning! My brother in law was witness to the crime and saw the three guys dragging out a safe. With the alarm blaring, they dragged out the safe but abandoned it as it was too heavy to load onto their van! My daughter's car had it's air con compressor and radiator yanked out of it during the night when it was parked outside the house.

We cannot have a gated community in USJ 6 as the area is too open and diverse in inhabitants. A lot of foreign workers also stay here. So, how to get it gated. No one would subscribe to it. Gated areas would affect the movement of others who will not like it. Gated communities are only successful if it consists of a homogeneous group of people who are like-minded.

There is a "motorcycle" security system but a fat lot of good it will do as the thieves are bolder as they do it in broad day light.

My nephew's house in USJ 9 was also broken into at 9.30 am (his alarm rang). They climbed through the roof! And cut off the alarm.

The list goes on. Now I stay mainly in my e-Tiara apartment and go back during daytime only. Can you blame me?

USJ27Resident

26-09-2009, 11:09 PM

New York's crime rate has reduced by 40% since year 2000. Do you really believe there is nothing we can do or the police can do about the crime rate in Malaysia or you just couldn't bother to get the MPs and government to act on this?

errr... new york? as in the whole state or just manhattan area...

btw... do you know how many cops are there, just in the city area? I've been there - and mind you, there's a cop (or two) literally standing in every other corner.. if you were a law abiding citizen - you'd have a huge sense of security but if you were up to no good... you'd be nervous as hell... and these cops can sense it a mile away!!

patrick

27-09-2009, 11:00 AM

bslee

27-09-2009, 11:35 AM

So the whole of Manhattan is virtually patrolled by private security and supported by NYPD. Great huh?

C'mon Patrick!.. You and I know the difference in mindset of people there and here. Thats one reason why they enjoy living a developed nation and we'll linger on in a 3rd world for the next century or more.

patrick

27-09-2009, 06:18 PM

C'mon Patrick!.. You and I know the difference in mindset of people there and here. Thats one reason why they enjoy living a developed nation and we'll linger on in a 3rd world for the next century or more.

Yeah...very sad but true! Only my fear is we evolve into worse than a 3rd world country!! Whilst countries like Vietnam and Indonesia are moving ahead, looks like we are moving backwards in so many ways. Needless to elaborate...!!

minnie

29-09-2009, 04:22 PM

Lord,

I used to stay in USJ9 where we had a fantastic NW programme - we got 20-30 people coming for the midnight patrol when we first started. The sight would send shivers down the spines of any burgler wannabe. But after 6 months, I was wasting all my petrol delivering newsletters and slips of paper in their post-boxes, announcing our night walks ... nobody came except a bunch of friends. Eventually when the patrols dwindled to just 3-4 persons, we called it off.

The grand-father of all NW groups, was started by USJ18 (correct me if I am wrong) - they were the first ones to barricade all exits and formed the 'illegal' gated-guarded community. Perhaps USJ16 was the first or second community - they too resorted to this G&G solution. Then it was USJ17 .... Tell me why

Have you got a successful NW programme? Share with us.

KWChang,
I guess we are the oldtimers here. We had our RT/NW program in USJ11 many years back and it ended up just like yours. Been there, done that Lord!

So, what should we do to protect our families? Our lil children, old folks, spouses. maids and visiting friends? With the crime rates this high? C'mmon Lord, be realistic -the police can't make their rounds in our neighborhood 24/7. That's why we have to resort to this G&G. For crime prevention, or at least as a deterrent to any possible crime.

Too bad we don't have enough collection money to pay for 24/7 security. If only we had the money, no drums, boomgates or gates would be installed.

And Lord will have his peace.

Sigh.

ksj_cool

29-09-2009, 04:55 PM

Jey

30-09-2009, 12:24 PM

Compare this discussion with the next...

http://www.usj.com.my/bulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=28084&page=2&pp=15

On one hand we are pissed mad with those who comes up with G & G as a crime prevention measure.
On the other hand we are at our wits end on when crimes of a certain kind will come to an end. :p

mmmmm....makes an interesting read. :D

EricK

30-09-2009, 10:42 PM

We have a similar problem in SS18. They have blocked the access roads as if it belonged to them. I am not against private security, but I do not condone such act of selfishness. Should you want to do something about the security problem in the area, do it by all means, do it for the whole community, not just for a few residents. I have highlighed this matter to Mdm. Thresa who promised to arrange a meeting with the group behind this move but till now no action yet!

i stay in SS 18 and the only road blocked that i know of is SS 18/5E as well as and SS18/5A. From what i can see the blocked road do not impede general traffic. I would think that only residents would be the only ones going in and out of these 2 roads and it is not a major throughfare or connecting road. Please refer to this map (http://maps.google.com.my/maps/mpl?q=Subang+Jaya&ie=UTF8&moduleurl=http://maps.google.com.my/help/maps/local_search/mapplet.html&mapclient=google&f=q&hl=en&utm_campaign=ms&utm_medium=ha&utm_source=ms-ha-apac-my-sk-gm&utm_term=subang%20jaya%20map) for a view of the area being gated.

I do not know if you stay in these 2 rows but i stay just next road and there were a lot of crime a few monhs back.. cars being stolen, snatch thefts etc in the area.. I'm not surprised the residents have had enough of crime and take action to safeguard their property and their lives.

I am not sure what you mean by whole community.. DOes it mean the whole community of USJ/SJ or whole of SS 18.

jan tomaswaki

01-10-2009, 09:36 AM

suppose you a heart attack early morning ,all roads are close and you have to take the only exit(200m) and by the time you raech the hosiptal you die (short of few seconds)Can the decease family sue the commitee ?

Jey

01-10-2009, 10:00 AM

Lets say the committee takes off the G & G. Then, if someone breaks into one of the homes in the neighborhood (since there is no more G & G), robs someone and also murders before easily getting away. Would the victims be able to sue all those who were against the G & G? :D

:eek:

AllUrban

01-10-2009, 10:17 AM

errr... new york? as in the whole state or just manhattan area...

btw... do you know how many cops are there, just in the city area? I've been there - and mind you, there's a cop (or two) literally standing in every other corner.. if you were a law abiding citizen - you'd have a huge sense of security but if you were up to no good... you'd be nervous as hell... and these cops can sense it a mile away!!One of my favourite economists, Stephen Levitt (Freakonomics) used the American crime rate for his research and he found that there were two direct solutions to decrease crime.

*First, increase the number of police on the streets.
*Second, put more people in prison (presumably, more criminals).

Nothing else made enough of a difference to be counted.

In our own situation, reducing corruption among the police (at all levels) and increasing the level of trust in the police force and at the same time increasing the efficiency of the courts system, would have a massive impact on crime.

Another thing that his research found was far more controversial - the idea that the drop in the crime rate in the early 1990s was caused by the legalization of abortion in America nearly 20 years before.

He argues that abortion allowed mothers the choice of when to have their children, meaning that children would be more likely to be brought up in better economic and social circumstances, by parents who were more mature - and these children would have more opportunities and be less likely to turn to crime.

Cheers, m

AllUrban

01-10-2009, 10:19 AM

Manhattan also has a good security arrangement where the businesses in each precinct contribute towards private security to patrol their area. And they keep in close contact with the Police to ensure security. So the whole of Manhattan is virtually patrolled by private security and supported by NYPD. Great huh?London is quite similar. In fact, the Metropolitan police are actually a private corporation too.

I was in Canary Wharf taking pictures of signs that say Canada (the Reichman brothers who built Canary Wharf are Canadians) and I was stopped by one security guard who thought I was taking a picture of a security van.

Even after I explained myself, I had a guard discreetely following me for the next 20 minutes.

Cheers, m

Sugarfree

01-10-2009, 10:59 AM

Even after I explained myself, I had a guard discreetely following me for the next 20 minutes.you do have a keen sense of observation. :)

AllUrban

01-10-2009, 11:53 AM

you do have a keen sense of observation. :)hahah I only wish it could be stronger, like the people who observe "microexpressions" in the show "Lie to Me" (screened 8:30 pm Mondays on NTV7) - imagine having a keen sense and ability to tell when people are lying - even conciously lying to themselves. :eek:

Actually, having a keen sense of discretion is probably better than observation. I actually noticed the guard and the security van long before and was waiting for the van to move so I could photograph the sign...but it took so long I didnt want to wait :p

And this was London in July a few days before the 5th anniversary of the tube bombings.....

Cheers, m

USJ27Resident

01-10-2009, 02:37 PM

Another thing that his research found was far more controversial - the idea that the drop in the crime rate in the early 1990s was caused by the legalization of abortion in America nearly 20 years before.

thats not gonna happen anytime soon in Bolehland, dude !!

unfortunately, that is also the direct reason that is also why you get a lot of babies being abandoned... in God only knows what and where... :(

Jennylim

01-10-2009, 03:56 PM

errr... new york? as in the whole state or just manhattan area...
!!

I don't know. The newspaper published in New York stated New York, the Star has also stated New York, it didn't said anything about Manhanttan alone.

The point here is, the crime rate will be reduced if the government wants to reduced crime rate. New York city has a much more complicated society than here. A few friends said they used to hear gun shots every night. Gun can be easily obtained. No one in the right frame of mind wants to be alone at the subway station at night. Those were the days before 2000.

Back here, this afternoon I saw a few students walking by the side of main road on their way home. Why, because the less traffic housing area is fenced up. They can no longer go through the housing area to walk home!!! SECURITY FOR THE HOUSING RESIDENTS but no safety for these poor students!!!

Jennylim

01-10-2009, 04:06 PM

I feel very piss off each time I try to get into the road that leads directly to my house and there is this barrier. I am 2 house away from that junction and I have to make a detour of about 1 km to reach my place.
. :(

I have to travel extra miles too! At least six times a week.

Have they not reading? Few days ago, Manila almost submerged in water, today, several villages blew away by flood, typhoon. These extra miles that we are forced to make, contribute to more global warming! Fossil fuels already running dry, we are forced to 'consume' more! These guys who are concerned about security, do they concerned about earth?

teamplay

01-10-2009, 05:12 PM

I don't know. The newspaper published in New York stated New York, the Star has also stated New York, it didn't said anything about Manhanttan alone.

The point here is, the crime rate will be reduced if the government wants to reduced crime rate. New York city has a much more complicated society than here. A few friends said they used to hear gun shots every night. Gun can be easily obtained. No one in the right frame of mind wants to be alone at the subway station at night. Those were the days before 2000.

Back here, this afternoon I saw a few students walking by the side of main road on their way home. Why, because the less traffic housing area is fenced up. They can no longer go through the housing area to walk home!!! SECURITY FOR THE HOUSING RESIDENTS but no safety for these poor students!!!

This is a very good point. Yes, what abt the safety of the children ? They have to walk extra distance to reach home, thus, also exposing them to potential dangers

sjkaki

01-10-2009, 06:47 PM

Yes, some said these peoples are selfish, indeed they are!

New York's crime rate has reduced by 40% since year 2000. Do you really believe there is nothing we can do or the police can do about the crime rate in Malaysia or you just couldn't bother to get the MPs and government to act on this?

Hi Jenny, Lord and all others who have the same feelings.

First of all, I am in total agreement that any security scheme should not make any one feel belittled, shamed, guilty and or accosted by rude guards etc. Any one has the right to complain.

I declare that I was a victim of break ins, wife injured and left with a permanent scar , member of Rukun tetangga groups, self vigilante wacking thieves in the middle of the morning and was also a member of security committee in my area. So I am both angry and fedup that my family and I cannot live in peace and not in fear that some society misfits will harm my family and I.

We all know and the police has admitted that they are at wits end and are hardpressed to provide public security. they have also encouraged residents to take care of themselves and to supplement the police. I also noticed that the police are present in and officiating G&G programs in many areas.

About G&G programs, I just wonder who in their right mind, for no acute reason, would want to organise themselves, contribute time and money to do a thankless job to provide a peace of mind if our security forces are able to already. Until the police are able to increase their manpower, residents have to put aside all selfish reasons to share the burden.

In my case, because of the single mindedness of our community, I am glad I now live in an area where 90% of the household are paying for security. Those who have did not join, we still provide them with car stickers and of course the guards patrol where they live too. Some eventually joined but still there are some who never will. It is great to note that the area has zero crime incidence since the improved program was implemented.

Of course, we encounter people who are unhappy with the arrangement and the inconvenience they experience. They ram the boom gates, we swallow our anger and built new ones. We can only ask for their understanding.

Until one day, when you too become a victim of hideous crime, you will never know how helpless and humbling the experience can be. I pray you never have to go through that. So I ask that you have a big heart to bear with that bit of inconvenience.

Sentinel

01-10-2009, 07:29 PM

This is 'real life experience' this afternoon and it happened at Ara Damansara.

A friend was driving around Ara Damansara to show me some of the houses there for sale which she was interested in buying and being a single lady, she was proud to tell me she is going to be buying one of these big terraced houses at Ara Damansara which is a gated community.... every section seems to have a barrier gate in front and also guards stationed there.

We went to three different sections and all three sections have these barrier gates with a guard at the entrance. As we approached, the barriers were lifted and we were allowed to drive thru and around the whole neighborhood and look at all the houses. Non of the 3 guards at the 3 gates even tried to stop our car and we just drive thru...

It was such a revelation to my friend that there was a lot of huff on this 'gated community' thinghy but any burglar or robber would have just driven in without being stopped at all.

For me, I had known this for a long time because I have never been stopped going to see some forumers in Putra Heights even at 12.00 midnite... LOL!

HTCHONG

01-10-2009, 08:24 PM

....We went to three different sections and all three sections have these barrier gates with a guard at the entrance. As we approached, the barriers were lifted and we were allowed to drive thru and around the whole neighborhood and look at all the houses. Non of the 3 guards at the 3 gates even tried to stop our car and we just drive thru.....

Ya lah...you must be driving big car lah. That's right the guard has no guts to stop you lah. Some more "tabik" when you enter, right ?! :D :D

AllUrban

02-10-2009, 11:05 AM

This is 'real life experience' this afternoon and it happened at Ara Damansara.

It was such a revelation to my friend that there was a lot of huff on this 'gated community' thinghy but any burglar or robber would have just driven in without being stopped at all.

For me, I had known this for a long time because I have never been stopped going to see some forumers in Putra Heights even at 12.00 midnite... LOL!Looking at Wangsa Baiduri and other places, it seems that guards are more likely to stop people on motorcycles, coming in vans, panel trucks, etc .... or people who look like foreigners except mat salleh foreigners.

Of course, these are the stereotypical break-in folks, arent they?

But if we look at the reports from SJ Alert and here in USJ we see the Camry Gang, young kids in MyVi, people who walk in or jump over the drains (leaving their vans outside the area) and many other profiles.

GnG just shifts crime from one area to another area - it is not a long-term solution...but I guess it was never intended to be

Cheers, m

Sentinel

02-10-2009, 11:22 PM

Ya lah...you must be driving big car lah. That's right the guard has no guts to stop you lah. Some more "tabik" when you enter, right ?! :D :DNo, this lady ex-staff of mine is driving a Peugeot 307 which is about the same shape and size as a Satria....

The security guards are like 'sensors' - as we approach the gate will just go up.... :D

Raikonen

03-10-2009, 09:27 AM

No, this lady ex-staff of mine is driving a Peugeot 307 which is about the same shape and size as a Satria....

The security guards are like 'sensors' - as we approach the gate will just go up.... :D

They probably saw you and didnt want to mess around.....

ksj_cool

03-10-2009, 05:21 PM

i stay in SS 18 and the only road blocked that i know of is SS 18/5E as well as and SS18/5A. From what i can see the blocked road do not impede general traffic. I would think that only residents would be the only ones going in and out of these 2 roads and it is not a major throughfare or connecting road. Please refer to this map (http://maps.google.com.my/maps/mpl?q=Subang+Jaya&ie=UTF8&moduleurl=http://maps.google.com.my/help/maps/local_search/mapplet.html&mapclient=google&f=q&hl=en&utm_campaign=ms&utm_medium=ha&utm_source=ms-ha-apac-my-sk-gm&utm_term=subang%20jaya%20map) for a view of the area being gated.

Dear Erick,
II am not sure what you mean by whole community.. DOes it mean the whole community of USJ/SJ or whole of SS 18.

I meant the SS18 residents. Three rows starting with the semi-d's have been gated. Many of us use the lanes even the side lanes when we go about our daily routines, like sending and picking the children from school etc, etc. We do not wish to be stopped by guards at the gate each time we pass thru. You should guard the roads leading to homes; nobody can deny you that right but pls recognize the rights of other residents to use these roads. The least you guys can do is explain the situation to us ( so that more of us can join you ) and/or provide car stickers so that we can just drive thru without being inconvenienced.

ceo684

03-10-2009, 07:29 PM

For those who think G&G was a cure all and end all, think again. My neighbour's house is right OPPOSITE the guard house, less than 30 foot steps can reach. One Sunday night, when it was raining, it got broken into about 2am.

w4n13

04-10-2009, 04:39 AM

I think gated community is necessary now adays .. USJ is not that safe anymore .. my mum been robbed at the 'T' Junction of USJ 2.4 and 5 .. they just smashed the window and took her handbag while she was waiting for the light to turn green .. and yes it was broad daylight ..

The suckiest part as im staying in USJ 4/1 is that people tend to use the inner road to avoid the red traffic light at this 'T" junction .. and none of them driving slow .. It is dangerous ..

I do hope USJ 4 will be a gated community .. for safety reason ..

besitai2007

04-10-2009, 08:47 AM

Not only in USJ. Yesterday, I wanted to visit a friend staying in PJS 9 in Sunway. What a shock I got! The whole area is fenced up and had become a gated community! Had to drive around to look for the entrance as I was coming from Jalan Lagoon Selatan. When I eventually found an entrance the darn security guard wouldn't let me through as I forgot the exact address of my friend. Usually go there by remembering the land marks. As Patrick Teoh aptly expresses himself...Nia...! Had to call my friend over the hp and asked him to rescue me from the security guard who speaks practically no English and BM. Gated communities can be a pain in..you know where.

danbee

04-10-2009, 03:27 PM

Gated community if properly planed and implimented with more 'grey matter' put in, without inconvinence to other residence will be great for all.
The problem now is that "Mr. big commitee" will simply say 'put one barrier here another there' except the road along where he is staying, is where the problem starts.
If barrier are install with proper planning with minimum inconv, I will say people will more to accept it.

SunwayK

04-10-2009, 03:56 PM

Not only in USJ. Yesterday, I wanted to visit a friend staying in PJS 9 in Sunway. What a shock I got! The whole area is fenced up and had become a gated community! Had to drive around to look for the entrance as I was coming from Jalan Lagoon Selatan. .....

You have got your facts wrong. The area has always been fenced up - done with compliments of the Sunway Group. The main entrances to the area were the same as before - the only difference is there are Guards now. There are walking pathways around the whole area for pedestrian safety - again with support from the Sunway group.

The commercial shoplots are not complaining as their businesses are not affected - everything is status quo. PJS police are not complaining - it allows their limited resouces to focus on the commercial areas where snatch thieves are more prevalent. Majority of the residents are not complaining. GnG might not be a cure all but at least, it buys peace of mind for the residents.

For the so-called environmentalists who feel travelling a few extra kms will destroy the earth, you should also address the human pollution. Instead of saving for future generations, why don't you attack and destroy furture generations by supporting sterilisations and abortions. One of the ways to fix earth's problem is by eliminating as many people as possible -less people, more oxygen to share around. Support the China policy - 1 wife 1 child. If you are indeed a hardcore environmentalist - ride a bicycle. Reading and knowing about world tragedies does not make you one.

My point - there is always two snides to every remark. Don't relate GnG to saving the earth.

EricK

05-10-2009, 03:49 PM

So far all i hear from this thread complain complain complain. What do you suggest to improve the safety of the community. Have you been to the Town Hall meeting organised our ADUN The police were there as well as the people behind SJ alert. where you there to pose your queries? Are you a member of SJ alert? Joined RakanCop?
Do you know your immediate neighbour? your 3 neighbours behind and in front of your house?

The police cannot be everywhere at once. As the inspector explains the need the eyes and ears of the resident's to aid the police. but how many of us know our neighbours let alone their handphone. You want police to do everything. Have you done your part to make their job easier?

Jey

05-10-2009, 04:49 PM

ksj_cool

05-10-2009, 05:51 PM

For those of you who are in support of G&G, go ahead and implement it, its fine so long as you have the majority support for the resident. Do not do it just for your road, do it for the community. A little extra effort in organising all residents to attend a community meeting won't hurt! In SS18 there was no meeting between residents and those who have implemented the G&G security.

Jennylim

06-10-2009, 01:02 PM

When you have gated community, the criminals face more challenges to rob. What would come across their mind? "Susahlah, kena cari kerja lain!" and become a construction workers? dish washers? Security guards?
or they set their targets at other places and continue their "business" somewhere else?

Now, those living in the gated community, do they only stayed in their housing area? No other places? Does anyone staying in the gated community goes to Fitness First? Just not too long ago, a friend saw a lady was snatched of her hand bag in front of Fitness First.

What I am trying to say, the probability of one getting rob in a gated community might be reduced (initially)but probability of getting rob in other area would definitely increases.

What about the police?

When you have a gated community, it is like saying, "police, it's okay, I know you are busy, you can not cope, we shall handle it ourselves!"

Will the police wait for more gated community to ease their job? And to have more gated community, all you need to do is let the crimes happen!

Tell me, why is there more and more gated community since the first one? why didn't the crime rate reduced? If gated community is a solution, we should have less crimes happening as the police has less area to cover. Do you see that happening?

Hey, when are we going gate the Taipan business centre? And the public road, etc. That will be ideal right? (and you know what, by then criminals only have police station to rob!!!)

BTW, I dislike the inconveniences, but I don't hate those staying in the gated area. I am just saying, you don't solve a problem by creating more problems to others or bring your problem to other places. If you are serious about security, there must be something else can be done.

sjkaki

06-10-2009, 02:01 PM

BTW, I dislike the inconveniences, but I don't hate those staying in the gated area. I am just saying, you don't solve a problem by creating more problems to others or bring your problem to other places. If you are serious about security, there must be something else can be done.

Jenny,

Those who have taken the iniative to implement G & G are simple minded and perhaps even selfish.Perhaps you or folks like Lord who are unhappy about the inconvenience can give us some ideas how the community can better the security situation without inconveniencing you.

I am at a lost here. It reminds me of Activists who scream at their governments for not doing enough to reduce rape crimes and when tough measures are taken to punish these rapists, the same activists scream human rights abuse! But they dont have a solution to offer either.

Raikonen

06-10-2009, 02:05 PM

Jey

06-10-2009, 02:35 PM

Raikonen - you live in a G & G community as well? :D

ksj_cool

06-10-2009, 02:58 PM

Most of the guards at the G&G look sleepy and incapable. If they are attacked are they capable of defending themselves? The answers a big 'NO'. Maybe a few can, but a majority of them will be easy meat because they are not armed or trained to defend.

How about communciation ? Can they alert residents or call their fellow guards? I think most of them do not carry walkie talkies or hps to communicate, in times of emergency they can't even call the police!

So what good is the G&G, if the guards are not trained to do a good job?

Some of them become 'peeping toms' ..I caught one guarding peeping thru my neigbbour's house during his duty!!!

Rhiga

06-10-2009, 02:59 PM

Raikonen - you live in a G & G community as well? :D

Raikkonen wad born in Finland and now reside in Monaco. He will return to Finland occasionally during summer break of F1 season to take part in car rally.

I doubt there is such a concept called G&G community in Finland like the one in Selangor, Malaysia.

But, I think he lives in a G&G residence, an exclusively private one.

Btw, I think he stays in his yacht most of the time in Monaco.

:D

leetickseng

06-10-2009, 03:03 PM

Unlike those had been 'kena' before, the rest whose house has never been broken into before would never appreciate the importance of security. All they fight for is their rights and inconveniences to speed through other people streets other than their own. Why don't you exercise your rights when you go through tolls? Why do you pay tolls when you did not ask them to build those highways and freeways and have the right to use any road that you want?

Here, the G&G community has the same right to safeguard their properties and loved ones. They are putting efforts and money into something that may make them live in peace. They have made sacrifices in terms of slightly longer routes for the sake of security.

There is no such thing, including the police and G&G, that can cure all and end all. But, I can vouch that G&G do helps a lot safer to live.

Those who are harping on the police system to protect their properties and families may continue to do so.But please do not stop others from trying their best to protect theirs.

Now, who are selfish?

bslee

06-10-2009, 03:03 PM

We or the gated community are not the source of the problem...You are directing your grouses at the wrong party.
What else can be done? Any suggestions?

There is!.. Like hiring a 24/7 round the clock security guard within your gate.
Its real right here at USJ9...there's a price to it obviously. Besides, I think it'll indirectly benefit the immediate neighbors too. Willing to fork out the $$?

termibait

06-10-2009, 03:05 PM

Jenny,

Those who have taken the iniative to implement G & G are simple minded and perhaps even selfish.Perhaps you or folks like Lord who are unhappy about the inconvenience can give us some ideas how the community can better the security situation without inconveniencing you.

I am at a lost here. It reminds me of Activists who scream at their governments for not doing enough to reduce rape crimes and when tough measures are taken to punish these rapists, the same activists scream human rights abuse! But they dont have a solution to offer either.

i guess the government forgot to invite Activists and other NGOs and maybe citizens(such as online survey or tv survey currently shown at 8tv and ntv7) for discussions before implementing new laws.....:)
is there any venues for citizens to voice out or give their opinions which will be heard and documented with follow ups?if yes, then government should spend more money to promote this instead of spending money on few super racing car in selangor only..how about other states?still driving potong cars....

Jey

06-10-2009, 03:13 PM

ksj_cool

06-10-2009, 03:14 PM

bslee

06-10-2009, 03:21 PM

The day will soon come, when a group of gangsters may decide to take out the guards by force before doing whatever the came to do and then what happens??? The advocates of G&G will then want armed guards! Won't they?

Lets not be overly analytical about it. One step at a time where the residents collectively attempt to do whats appropriate and affordable for some added form of security measure. Obviously its not a fool proof exercise but likely and merely a great deterrent to possible crimes within the neighborhood. We all know PDRM is not the cure all solution to resident's woes where crime rates are increasingly rampant.

Raikonen

06-10-2009, 03:27 PM

There is!.. Like hiring a 24/7 round the clock security guard within your gate.
Its real right here at USJ9...there's a price to it obviously. Besides, I think it'll indirectly benefit the immediate neighbors too. Willing to fork out the $$?

Thats what G&G is doing with the consent of the majority and we ARE forking out the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Raikonen

06-10-2009, 03:28 PM

Raikkonen wad born in Finland and now reside in Monaco. He will return to Finland occasionally during summer break of F1 season to take part in car rally.

I doubt there is such a concept called G&G community in Finland like the one in Selangor, Malaysia.

But, I think he lives in a G&G residence, an exclusively private one.

Btw, I think he stays in his yacht most of the time in Monaco.

:D

:confused: :D

bslee

06-10-2009, 03:34 PM

Thats what G&G is doing with the consent of the majority and we ARE forking out the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

C'mon!. I reiterate earlier that home have employed a personal security guard standing by WITHIN the home gate. PERSONAL GUARD and Guards at the main ROAD entrance gate perform DIFFERENTLY, so does the price of either. Are you implying residents are now embarking on the same objective?

Blue Jasmine

06-10-2009, 03:39 PM

Thats what G&G is doing with the consent of the majority and we ARE forking out the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

ay u guys shld be happy got G & G and all this security stuff. Other ppl wants also cannot. Eg my mom house is SS17. is imposibble for G & G at the area due to too many junctions and turn out. (if u see the map)

however there is this security company that does patrol there. Since last 2 yrs if not mistaken. They wanted to collect fees from us. Since they only round the area once or twice a night we asked for better information as in how they will protect or guard a house as no guard was even placed there. So obviously we seek clarification before paying. Few times they came, and they wasnt very friendly too. The next morning my mother car park just outside the house got one really long scratch. Of course we got no proof. They stop coming already. We know who and what they are. So moral of the story be happy for whatever you have. We were lucky thats all that happen. Please understand im not accusing of who did that. Im just relating this to the subject.

Raikonen

06-10-2009, 04:04 PM

C'mon!. I reiterate earlier that home have employed a personal security guard standing by WITHIN the home gate. PERSONAL GUARD and Guards at the main ROAD entrance gate perform DIFFERENTLY, so does the price of either. Are you implying residents are now embarking on the same objective?

Cannot be so selfish laaaaaaa...later my neighbours say i push the robbers and thieves to their houses........

bslee

06-10-2009, 04:17 PM

Cannot be so selfish laaaaaaa...later my neighbours say i push the robbers and thieves to their houses........

Again, another analytical comment. I've said before, everyone is realistically on their own and there's no denying everyone are selfish is some manner or thought. Everyone have to fend best for themselves in this land. We're in a period of a land in disarray where many issues won't solve itself and the ball is back into the resident's own court to fend for their own safety. In another analytical analogy, everyday we're experiencing numerous selfish, arrogant and thoughtless drivers on the road on 2-6 wheels, even worse isn't it? Fend for yourself best or hope for "efficient" law enforcement?

ksj_cool

06-10-2009, 04:56 PM

Going by yr logic, bslee I can defend myself by keeping as many dogs as want?

Sure, 'tak boleh punye'...you have to go by the law..only can keep 2 dogs etc etc.. we are not living in cowboy town, there is law and order to follow. Your logic of everyman for himself can only apply in cowboy town.

Youu want to have G&G security, call a meeting of the residents first! Don't do G&G security like in SS18, do like in PJS9, everybody must benefit from it. The security in SS18 is probably against municapal by-laws because it does not have the blessing of the majority.

bslee

06-10-2009, 05:17 PM

Going by yr logic, bslee I can defend myself by keeping as many dogs as want?

My friend ksj_cool. What i wrote earlier is not definitive. Its in a broad sense and I won't bother explaining and droning in numerous paragraphs about logic that may bore people here.
I assume there's no law saying you can't employ a personal security guard to standby at one's place. If can afford it, why not, go ahead by all means like what that resident nearby mine have implemented?. Surely I'm confident the guard won't go about biting passers by.

Cowboy town?.. this land IS still cowboy country as a matter of fact numerous issues easily noticible in every state and its all relative to mindset and mentality. Like for example in some nearby areas, teens and school going kids riding motorbikes sometimes 3-4 on the 2 wheelers, parents themselves don't wear helmets ferrying kids and toddlers, etc....what sort of mentality is that and complete disregard for the law where they completely ignore traffic ordinance?.. tell me if its not cowboy mentality? Man...this is 2009, don't tell me those folks never had formal education, buta huruf or just plain stupid?
Few do it, many others follow suit with blatant ignorance, TILL SOMETHING BAD HAPPENS! Many things have gone wrong, but it seems NOTHING really concrete been done except punitive fines and samans.

ksj_cool

06-10-2009, 05:34 PM

EricK

06-10-2009, 05:46 PM

bslee, it's ok man.. I was taking a swipe at the guys who implemented G&G security in my area, not you..You can go aheadn and place a security guard at your house, no problem punye!.. By way don't get stressed by the things happening around you..like people not following traffic laws etc,etc. Remember, we have these things happening even in most civilised of countries too, so chill down, remember my friend, the world is not perfect.

i think you should heed your own advice... don't get stressed by people having G N G. If you are maybe you should sue the Resident Association that unilaterraly imposed their will on the resident's. Complaining about it here won't change a thing :D

ksj_cool

06-10-2009, 05:57 PM

Erick, why are you getting so defensive? This is an open forum and I have the right to voice out what I feel. ok bro.

Jey

06-10-2009, 08:50 PM

Erick, why are you getting so defensive? This is an open forum and I have the right to voice out what I feel. ok bro.

I guess this is what the rest of us are doing as well. Voicing an opposing view or opinion does not make the person 'so defensive'. Its just an opinion too. Opinions are like rear ends, everyone has one.
:D

Sentinel

06-10-2009, 09:00 PM

I guess this is what the rest of us are doing as well. Voicing an opposing view or opinion does not make the person 'so defensive'. Its just an opinion too. Opinions are like rear ends, everyone has one.
:DOf course, just like the rear ends, everyone has one, but there is no necessity to let out hot air from the rear ends all the time over difference in opinion mah...

EricK

06-10-2009, 09:40 PM

Erick, why are you getting so defensive? This is an open forum and I have the right to voice out what I feel. ok bro.

I'm not being defensive. I'm suggesting a course of action to undertake. Residents cannot just simply erect G N G anywhere they like. They need to get at least 70% of residents to agree before doing it. If they did not get 70% of the residents approval then you have an avenue to get those irreponsible G N G lovers to cease and desist from their nefarious actions. ;)

As an open forum we should share information freely dont' you think. anyway i remembered some 1 posted the process of setting up a G n G community and it is not as simple as blocking the road. If you want i'll have to find it and post it here...

Carolrasiah

06-10-2009, 11:33 PM

kwchang

06-10-2009, 11:47 PM

...Residents cannot just simply erect G N G anywhere they like. They need to get at least 70% of residents to agree before doing it. If they did not get 70% of the residents approval then you have an avenue to get those irreponsible G N G lovers to cease and desist from their nefarious actions... Funny, I thought that the area that is gated off limits to others need to have 70-90% of the residents' consent (actually it should be 85%, I believe) - therefore take for example 2 residential roads want to gate (let us say there are 200 houses) .... and they have signed agreement from 85% of the residents who's houses are within those 2 roads ... then they have the required percentage to gate off, right? You who is outside that area do not count because they are not surrounding your house with their boundary. So you on the outside, how to complain? Basically it is 1 against 170 (85% 0f 200). So how?

Of course, I understand you mean they have deprived you the right to use any one of the 2 roads ... but isn't there other roads going around that area? You can drive around that GnG zone, right?

As someone had given another scenario of tolled roads ... LDP put up toll gates on an existing road at SriDamansara and the Sunway areas, PLUS put up toll gates on the highway between Section 16 and TamanTun ... can you tell the concessionaires to give you free passage because they were once public thoroughfares?

Jey

07-10-2009, 01:36 AM

Of course, just like the rear ends, everyone has one, but there is no necessity to let out hot air from the rear ends all the time over difference in opinion mah...

Yeah thats true. A public forum attracts all sorts of participants. Some argue, some give opinions and some just let off hot air like you just mentioned. Arguing to get a logical point across is always welcome even though if they are divergent to one another. But empty arguments for the sake of arguing and nothing else is like the hot air from the rear ends. Nice metaphor.
:D

tootoo

07-10-2009, 02:10 AM

I think what Carol say is true..security or not if they wanna rob very difficult to stop them, cos the robbers monitor us and we cant monitor them. In my place..just my road 5 houses paid for security the rest opt not to pay, so everytime the security just makes round to houses that pay.Guess what, last month 3 houses were broken into and they are the ones that pay for security service and so for those not paying so far none of them are broken into :confused: I think the robbers knows that those of us who dont pay for security are not rich... so no point robbing us.

besitai2007

07-10-2009, 09:37 AM

EricK

07-10-2009, 02:03 PM

Funny, I thought that the area that is gated off limits to others need to have 70-90% of the residents' consent (actually it should be 85%, I believe) - therefore take for example 2 residential roads want to gate (let us say there are 200 houses) .... and they have signed agreement from 85% of the residents who's houses are within those 2 roads ... then they have the required percentage to gate off, right? You who is outside that area do not count because they are not surrounding your house with their boundary. So you on the outside, how to complain? Basically it is 1 against 170 (85% 0f 200). So how?

Of course, I understand you mean they have deprived you the right to use any one of the 2 roads ... but isn't there other roads going around that area? You can drive around that GnG zone, right?

As someone had given another scenario of tolled roads ... LDP put up toll gates on an existing road at SriDamansara and the Sunway areas, PLUS put up toll gates on the highway between Section 16 and TamanTun ... can you tell the concessionaires to give you free passage because they were once public thoroughfares?

exactly the point i was trying to make to ksjcool. from the way he was describing it i get the impression that he lives somewhere in SS 18 which was G N G without his express permission and so i pointed out if they did not get his permission, maybe they did not get the required amount of approval from the residents. And if so, then he has grounds to get the authorities to remove the G N G and make it happen.

Sentinel

07-10-2009, 02:11 PM

bslee

07-10-2009, 02:33 PM

Today in the Sun (page 4 top left column), the cops want all rich people to take care of themselves by hiring private secuirty guards or have an escort when withdrawing large amounts of cash and to protect their luxury cars. Hey, what are our cops doing then? Does it mean we don't need cops now and have our own private cops?

This kind of advice is neither all right nor wrong. In drastic times like this, there's a price to be paid and I suppose the rich or individuals handling large amount of cash are encouraged to take extreme precautionary measures, just like one resident nearby to my place hires a 24/7 security guard at their gate. I assume they can afford it, so be it as long the objective doesn't really bother anyone else nearby.
Cops can only do so much to protect everyone but again, this is drastic times and we've not much alternative but to fend for ourselves even if we've to fork out $ to do something. Do you really expect an armed policeman at every ATM, every bank entrance, every restaurant, every dark street, every "shady" place or anywhere else to your convenience? I think that won't happen. Perhaps you'd like to see like "military or police everywhere like state of curfew" only then your confidence risen up to walk the streets safely?

ksj_cool

07-10-2009, 02:48 PM

Some people here are trying to say that one or two roads constitute a whole area, which I think is twisting the issue to one's advantage. When we talk about a community it should be a bigger area, for example SS18, SS17, PJS9 etc, etc.

So how about the houses facing the main road ss18/5. There are less than 10 semi-d houses, so if 8 of them agree, can the road be blocked too (according to erick's logic)?

Come on, two roads just cannot be a whole community! Also, my back lane opens out to one those roads, so who gave you the right to block my side lane? My side lane is for emergency exit purposes just in case I can't get out thru my front lane, right?

Mr Jey,
Yes I agree, we are all just discussing but erick is talking extremes, he wants me to sue, so that he can keep his lane blocked.

The Resident association should have consulted all residents in the area before implementing such a move. You want to do something good, do it for the whole community, act for the whole community not just for your two roads :eek:

sjkaki

07-10-2009, 04:33 PM

U guys got £trillion or US trillion slashed away in your place? Don’t mean to offend u. Hey if a robber makes up his mind to rob – that’s it, nothing will stop them, cos this data is embed in their mind. G N G will not work on long term as they will master mind the G N G system in your area & far worse things will brew up. Just giving you physiological insight – take it or leave it. :)

I think you really missing the point. You are referring to those organised gangs who do their research and background checks. They dont waste their time and risk their lives for a petty sum.
However most robbers are opportunists who look for easy targets. They dont know if you have trillions or owe the bank millions. They come into your home, tie you up, rape you and even slash you but may only end up with a paltry sum. You give them an opportunity, they hit you! If you take the Lackadaisical attitude, you get hit first.

Listen and learn from victims. You dont want to be the next statistic. Arrogance and nothing can befall me attitude will make you live to regret it and worst still." You ignored the realities and failed to prepare."

This will be my last response. Good luck and stay safe.

ksj_cool

07-10-2009, 06:03 PM

http://polls.thestar.com.my/polls/result.asp?id=137&cid=2&cdesc=News

Carolrasiah

07-10-2009, 10:08 PM

Listen and learn from victims. You dont want to be the next statistic. Arrogance and nothing can befall me attitude will make you live to regret it and worst still." You ignored the realities and failed to prepare."
This will be my last response. Good luck and stay safe.[/QUOTE]

Hey buddy – for your information I have listened to real live incidents of rape & robbed fatalities. Some of them disables too. Please bear in mind there isn’t a 100% grantee of our safety no matter how cautious we are. If u are NOT murdered on the highways, u probably will in your mansion, & it is not our fault as our government has failed to make us feel secure. What has arrogance got to do in this issue? So now the cops wants us to find our own ‘bodyguards’ doesn’t that sound weird?

MasterQ

07-10-2009, 11:43 PM

Interesting findings posted at the other thread titled Safety at USJ 2 (http://www.usj.com.my/bulletin/upload/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=372616)

LATEST STAR SURVEY :

http://polls.thestar.com.my/polls/result.asp?id=137&cid=2&cdesc=News

This is the result of the poll

POLL RESULTS

Are neighbourhood security guards helping to reduce crime?

34% say Yes, they are worth the money

but on the other hand, the majority

66% say No, they are just lame sitting ducks

http://i482.photobucket.com/albums/rr182/laufutze/lameduck.jpg

And this is what Chief Inspector Loi, the OCS (Officer in Charge of Station) of Balai Polis USJ said when he was at the USJ 11/3 residents gathering.

"Gated and Guarded Communities are not helping to reduce the crime rate in Subang Jaya. What happens is that the G&G Communities are pushing Crime to other areas in Subang Jaya, so crime in areas that are not Gated and Guarded are on the increase."

Inspector Loi himself knows this as this is happening in the area under his men command.

Jey

08-10-2009, 12:36 AM

Interesting Statistics.

Anyway, even with "lame sitting duck guards" whom 66% beleive are "not worth the money" crime has been effectively prevented in those areas with G n G.
This seems to come from the Inspector Loi himself (quoting the above statement). Which just goes to prove the effectiveness of the G n G. Otherwise how can it be "pushed out to other areas"? Which means it works for those areas that are gated and guarded, even with "sitting lame ducks"

:eek: :D

Jennylim

08-10-2009, 09:17 AM

leetickseng

08-10-2009, 09:51 AM

Just as Jey has pointed out correctly, it is crystal clear that our chief inspector Loi's statement actually confirmed the effectiveness of G&G, even with 'lame sitting ducks', in reducing crimes, of course, in G&G areas only while the crime rates in areas that are not G&G are on the increase. Still don't get it?

Now, is there anyone who does not want security, please be honest? If none, then examine yourself what are your real reasons for objecting?

Here are some that I can think of:
1. Pretend to object or object for the sake of objecting just to avoid paying contributions while enjoying G&G on others.
2. Very inconvenient for me, got to take longer way (who doesn't want shortcuts?)
3. Guards are lame sitting ducks (whom do you expect then?),
4. Exercising my rights (only you have?),
5. Waste of my time and money
6. Leave it to the police or dogs to do their job
7. I have never been robbed before, so G&G is not necessary

Please add on if you wish. Cheers

Jennylim

08-10-2009, 10:01 AM

other people streets other than their own.

I don't think we are talking abt trespassing into people's street here. If you own the streets like Universal Studio Theme park, I will pay you money to use the roadlah! and pleaselah, it is already bad being treated like a criminal going through a public road to give income to one who stays in gated area, don't add salt to wound assuming everyone uses road are mat rempits!

Why don't you exercise your rights when you go through tolls? Why do you pay tolls when you did not ask them to build those highways and freeways and have the right to use any road that you want?

Huh?

Raikonen

Your source of problem is the police and the government, and the robbers. Gated community is the source of other peoples' related problems.

Solutions? I am sure there are, but they value more when it comes out from yourself.

Raikonen

08-10-2009, 10:32 AM

Huh?

Raikonen

Your source of problem is the police and the government, and the robbers. Gated community is the source of other peoples' related problems.

Solutions? I am sure there are, but they value more when it comes out from yourself.

Can i do anything about the police and govt? No. But i sure as hell can do something about the robbers...Until then, G&G will be a effective deterrence for me. G&G, implemented effectively, can bring more benefits than costs...Inconvenience? Hell yeah all the traffic lights in USJ hold me up more than 2 minutes each...and i will just consider the guardhse as the last traffic light before my residence.

leetickseng

08-10-2009, 10:38 AM

Some clarifications here.
'own street' means in front or at the back of your own house and does not mean anyone owns it.
Did anyone ever ask you to pay anything for going through any of the G&G streets?
Do you also considered those motorist going through public tolls being treated like criminals too?
What kind of related problems do G&G pose to you?

jan tomaswaki

08-10-2009, 02:15 PM

Actually i'm looking to buy some hse in USJ area,other then reading from newspaper and call the agent,now i can't even go to the G &G towander any signboard "HSE FOR SALE".Tell you,if i bought a unit there i will tell them i sewa the hse,so no need to pay.......

ksj_cool

08-10-2009, 02:35 PM

Some people here beleive that they own the roads around their area, thats the whole problem. They can go the extent of preventing others in the same taman from using the road. The best part is, they don't even inform the residents in the taman that such a thing going to be implemented. This to me is a act of arrogance and selfishness!

They compare their lane in front of the house to tolled highways knowing well that these tolled roads were built by companies as a alternative route and hence the toll charges is to recover the cost etc etc. They have the God damn right to block, you don't have it because you did'nt build that road in front of your house. The side lanes are exits of emergency, again you have no right to block me from exiting to the nearest back road! Should you say, you have the legal right, then Lord is right in saying whatever he has said like parking across and blocking the exit because the road where your lane leads to does not belong to you, right? Like someone was suggesting to people outside the G&G I say, 'go around to another exit'!

I take my hats off to the people behind the PJS9 setup because they have shown that they are a community, what they have done is benefiting every single resident in the taman! USJ 2 is in the process of doing a G&G, they have called a meeting and have indulged in house to house campaign. This did'nt happen in SS18, what we have is G&G (2 lane special) at the expense of other residents. Done by the Resident Association but two lane special, is the Resident Association really representing SS18 or these few lanes only?

EricK

08-10-2009, 07:47 PM

I would just like to point to this posting (http://www.usj.com.my/bulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=26355&highlight=Gated) in USJ forum on the steps taken to create a G n G community.

ksj_cool

10-10-2009, 10:28 AM

jan tomaswaki

10-10-2009, 02:48 PM

Yesterday a client ask me to design their Bkt Rimau RA gate stickers,asking him further ,85% of the owners agree to guard up the plce (4pax) with a total paid up by residents RM70(130hse) = RM9100 whereby guards pay is RM4.5per hr,so it comes to about RM12,960,who pay for the shortfall ?besides wanting to fence/grill the area.One thing they do is to put up a signage in all paying hsehold,so that they can "shame"the non payers!What a dirty tactic.!!!!

deuces

11-10-2009, 12:21 AM

This has become an unwelcoming trend of late. I thought USJ11 was the end of it until I saw a similar thing in USJ3 yesterday.
my 2 cents worth...

as usual there u go off shooting your mouth off again. you are such a big loser my friend. and if u think we dont have the right, well youre wrong!!! we do!!! and there isnt a damn thing you cant do about it.
there is no logic to your thinking and if you cant take i suggest you move out. otherwise just do whatever you think you want to do. all we ever hear from you are just empty threats. tear down the fence? go ahead. enjoy.

deuces

11-10-2009, 12:28 AM

Here are some that I can think of:
1. Pretend to object or object for the sake of objecting just to avoid paying contributions while enjoying G&G on others.
2. Very inconvenient for me, got to take longer way (who doesn't want shortcuts?)
3. Guards are lame sitting ducks (whom do you expect then?),
4. Exercising my rights (only you have?),
5. Waste of my time and money
6. Leave it to the police or dogs to do their job
7. I have never been robbed before, so G&G is not necessary

Please add on if you wish. Cheers

1. i dont have a job and i have nothing else better to do.
2. i like to irritate people.
3. i'm a pain in the a*$e.
4. i dont like communities.
5. who am i going to rob then?

deuces

11-10-2009, 12:32 AM

deuces

11-10-2009, 12:38 AM

I have to travel extra miles too! At least six times a week.

Have they not reading? Few days ago, Manila almost submerged in water, today, several villages blew away by flood, typhoon. These extra miles that we are forced to make, contribute to more global warming! Fossil fuels already running dry, we are forced to 'consume' more! These guys who are concerned about security, do they concerned about earth?

all these trajedies are caused by driving 1km more to get home??? really jenny? so now we must forget about my family's safety and security to prevent typhoons??
gee jenny.... i have absolutely nothing to say.... really nothing. your statement is so flabbergasting my brain has turned to mush.
thank god you didnt become a teacher.

kwchang

11-10-2009, 01:04 AM

Deuces have been banned for a period of time for calling names, acting arrogantly, starting an arguement and simply displaying poor etiquette on the Forum.

The rule is to agree to disagree. Just because someone has a different viewpoint, it does not give anyone the right to flame others of opposing view. We do not need firebrands in the Forum.

jan tomaswaki

12-10-2009, 01:33 PM

all these trajedies are caused by driving 1km more to get home??? really jenny? so now we must forget about my family's safety and security to prevent typhoons??
gee jenny.... i have absolutely nothing to say.... really nothing. your statement is so flabbergasting my brain has turned to mush.
thank god you didnt become a teacher.
Wait till when emergency, 1km is a lifesaver ( sometimes it takes 20min to drive 1km and you got a heart attack !!!!

currymee

12-10-2009, 04:03 PM

The most enthusiatic proponents of G&G are usually residents who are directly affected by the crimes occuring daily in our neighbourhood USJ - we must understand the trauma suffered and the pyschological stresses and insecurity caused by such criminal attacks on them or their loved ones.

For those that are more concerned about the right-of-passage, I urged you to spare a thought for the vicitms that are trying to rebuild whatever sense of security and safety that they can. For many, even though they are aware that the security guards are no match for determined armed robbers, they are still happy to know that at least there is SOMETHING that they can do and have done to keep some sense of safety and security apart from moving to MARS or MOON.

A lot of victims that I have spoken to have a "resigned" sense and zero expectation of the police. G&G may be the ONLY temporary solution available at present and it is better than nothing for many of the vicitms to do something. Spare a thought - you are very lucky if you have not been attacked so far - BE SAFE AND STAY SAFE IN USJ

driftingrover

13-10-2009, 01:42 PM

wow, this is now getting to be a hot topic.

LIVE N LET LIVE

First , let me introduce myself, i live at USJ 3, which has recently been guarded n gated. I hv yet to join the scheme but i m not against it either. U can all call me a sitting on the fence, or better u can call me whatyever u want.

there is always 2 side to the coin.

credit must be given when credit is due, my salute to all those RA that hv successfully implemented the G & G. well done n god bless for all the hard work n effort. it is hard to get anything started but more difficult to keep it going. be fair n live in the community spirit, do not marginalize anyone n create enemies. u hv a house here in usj, so do i, u hv the right to live here as much as i.

1.to those who for the scheme, do not feel that u r so self rightous n almighty.
i hv seen ppl telling that those that feel inconvienced should move out?? why isn't it the other way, those that feel this area is not safe should moved out??
my stata tittle states that this a FREEHOLD LAND, the advertisement brochure from sime darby when i brought my house say this is an OPEN CONCEPT COMMUNITY n nowhere nor anyway hv i signed a G & G AGREEMENT that compelled me to PAY or MOVED OUT
85% agree??? even if 99% agreed does does make an ILLEGAL thing RIGHT??

2.to those who does not support the scheme,(i totally agree with LORD on his issues but TOTALLTY disagree with his method) do not scream n shout about it, if u feel that u r really inconvenienced or victimized , go the proper channel. hv u made a police report? hv the police refused to take your report? hv the police refused to act on your report??

now the interesting question here is
a. was there a written approval from mpsj for the area to be gated n fenced up??
b. was there a written approval from the police that the area to be fence n gated??
c. was there written approval from the police that private security can stop n question anyone??

so, when legal action is initiated, who do u think will bear the consequences, YB, MPSJ, POLICE, or the RA head??
interesting isn't it??

driftingrover

13-10-2009, 02:01 PM

IWCheah,
u r absolutely right. for the same token spare a thought too for those that did not join up, why differentiate those that r paying n those that r not paying, are we not all staying in the same community?

ghkok747

13-10-2009, 06:59 PM

Ok, please everyone, stay calm. Just stay calm ...

The crime rate has crossed the tipping point. People are afraid. Last Fri, 4 masked men entered my neighbour's house (corner house). To cut a long story short, police was called. They came but by then the robbers are gone. This happened at noon.

Stories like these are not published, sometimes not even on our forum. It happens every day.

I've lived in Subang Jaya since 1991 and I'm sure many of you on this forum also have lived here for a long time. We are not alone. All over the Klang Valley, there are daily casualties of crime. The casualty count keeps rising. In a way, we are all victims. We got robbed, our neighbours got robbed, our father, sister, friend, relative, colleague etc. We know someone who got robbed. We've given up complaining about the police. We just feel that "something needs to be done" and "we need to do it". We feel that it's our DUTY to protect our family and our community. In our haste to "get going" with the GnG, we may have forgotten to consult or discuss with everyone in our community. We may have rushed into getting the 85% signatures thus placing undue pressure on those who may want more time to think about it. We may have unconsciously offended or even ostracised the "other 15%" who disagree. We may have been unreasonably impatient with those who don't share our views on GnG BUT yet share our views that something needs to be done with security.

I feel .. let bygones be bygones. We have good intentions - to safeguard ourselves and the community. If the guards look fat and lazy, that's because we didn't do a good job to look for the right security company who has the right guards. This can be corrected. If there's a bottleneck at the checkpoint, the checkpoint procedure can be finetuned. If it causes irritation, we can talk, we can discuss, it can be improved. Is it a perfect system ? No it's not. But it deters. It's a temporary solution as good as any. We can even complement it with an RT.

Our real enemies are the criminals. Let us unite and make life difficult for them. Our final objective should be to set up an ARMED VOLUNTARY FORCE that can patrol our streets, and stop, question and apprehend suspiscious characters BEFORE they have a chance to commit crime. We're not there yet. In the meantime, let's just do GnG .. or some other lesser measures. To PROTECT our family and community. Thanks for reading. We survived another day ..

Carolrasiah

13-10-2009, 10:56 PM

http://thestar.com.my/metro/story.asp?file=/2009/10/13/central/4887216&sec=central

driftingrover

14-10-2009, 09:09 AM

Ok, please everyone, stay calm. Just stay calm ...

I've lived in Subang Jaya since 1991 and I'm sure many of you on this forum also have lived here for a long time. We are not alone. All over the Klang Valley, there are daily casualties of crime. The casualty count keeps rising. In a way, we are all victims. We got robbed, our neighbours got robbed, our father, sister, friend, relative, colleague etc. We know someone who got robbed. We've given up complaining about the police. We just feel that "something needs to be done" and "we need to do it". We feel that it's our DUTY to protect our family and our community. In our haste to "get going" with the GnG, we may have forgotten to consult or discuss with everyone in our community. We may have rushed into getting the 85% signatures thus placing undue pressure on those who may want more time to think about it. We may have unconsciously offended or even ostracised the "other 15%" who disagree. We may have been unreasonably impatient with those who don't share our views on GnG BUT yet share our views that something needs to be done with security.

I feel .. let bygones be bygones. We have good intentions - to safeguard ourselves and the community. If the guards look fat and lazy, that's because we didn't do a good job to look for the right security company who has the right guards. This can be corrected. If there's a bottleneck at the checkpoint, the checkpoint procedure can be finetuned. If it causes irritation, we can talk, we can discuss, it can be improved. Is it a perfect system ? No it's not. But it deters. It's a temporary solution as good as any. We can even complement it with an RT.

Our real enemies are the criminals. Let us unite and make life difficult for them. Our final objective should be to set up an ARMED VOLUNTARY FORCE that can patrol our streets, and stop, question and apprehend suspiscious characters BEFORE they have a chance to commit crime. We're not there yet. In the meantime, let's just do GnG .. or some other lesser measures. To PROTECT our family and community. Thanks for reading. We survived another day ..

ghkok,
very well said, if all the RA think on this frequency, there won't be this issue of the majority n the minority, after all it is the community.
but when the RA started distinguishing the paying n non paying residents, that is taken a step too far, isn't it akin to pointing out that we (the paying residents ) r the majority, those non paying residents is our enemy.
paying residents r issue car security stickers and house labeled. so what r they trying to tell the rest?

in the spirit of the community, live as one community n not divide the community just because everyone does not jump onto the bandwagon.
if the majority think they r above the rest, i m lucky that i hv not sign up as yet.

leetickseng

14-10-2009, 04:40 PM

This GnG concept is only for one purpose i.e. a hope to deter potential break-ins in your neighbourhood. It would NOT guarantee you 100% crime-free.
Anyway, there is no such thing that can give you 100% crime-free, only in the advertisements. Likewise, there are people who spent lots of money to install security alarms and CCTV and yet got their homes broken into.

You should ask yourself honestly whether you want this hope of security (no guarantee) or you would rather decide only after your home has been broken into and do nothing about it?

I'm sure people who have decided to pay are those who want this hope and played their part. If you want this hope and yet do not want to pay, then stop giving all kinds of excuses, legality of GnG, your rights, powers of guards, untrained guards and so on. Who cares whether they are trained as long they stand at entry points come rain or shine. You pay peanuts, you get peanuts. Getting well-trained ones is as easy as ABC as long as you are willing to pay for it. Not contributing on your part seems rather unco-operative and yet you expect to live in one community with equality to those who pay in the spirit of community.

If you truly do not have hope in GnG and do not contribute anything, then you should let others do, under their own expenses (not yours), what they hope for with regards to security to their properties and families just like you do.

You see, setting up and maintaining GnG costs lots of money. Without funds, there would be no GnG. That's it.

Now, we have people who want this hope of security and live as one community and yet expect free stickers and plaque and consider yourself lucky for not signing up.

driftingrover

15-10-2009, 09:25 AM

leetickseng

do not get it wrong , we r not asking anything for free nor r we expecting anything .

G&G done right, everyone live in peace (for or against )
G&G done incorrectly only creates enmity (my reason for not subscribing to)

i prefer to live in peace with the rest of the community but if needed be(HASSLE me ) , i will also be better off in my bank account. SOMEONE in here say NOTHING I CAN DO ABOUT IT???

it is alright for a group to get together to do something that they feel is right, it is also fair that there r some that feel they don't need it. SO THOSE FEW THAT THINK THEY DON"T NEED IT, WERE THEY ASKING FOR IT?? IF THEY DID NOT ASK FOR ANYTHING , WHY DO U FEEL THAT THEY R GETTING ANYTHING FOR FREE??
this i think was the problem from those that think the few r getting it for free, which is totally a selfish way of thinking

SJ18

15-10-2009, 10:40 PM

Thanks for the guidelines.

It clear now that SS18 RA did not follow the guidelines. They never met the residents and have implemented security with giving due consideration to all residents in the area.

Our councillor has informed me that the RA is arranging a meeting to expand the security , agreeing that the RA was short sighted on this matter and would be taking damage control action.

I live at SS18 too, near the GnG area and was never consulted by the RA. Anyway, glad to hear that they are planning to engage the rest of the community and give everyone a chance to decide whether to participate or not.

samng

14-12-2009, 04:43 PM

I have gone through this entire thread and I found that some of you may be missing the whole point here. Subang Jaya residents are an educated lot. Do not insult each other's intelligence like what some Politicians did. Focus on the facts and realities.

Doing nothing about a problem and giving lip service is easy. Leave that to the Politicians. The reality is that there is no such thing as a tight security without any inconvenience. Compare the security measures taken between a bank and a goldsmith shop. The tighter the security, the more hassle you have to go through and the more money is needed to finance it.

Relying on the police to tighten security? Excuse me? I was not born yesterday. Please wake up and face the reality? RT & NW? Now you are insulting the intelligence of robbers and snatch thieves.

Thank those who implement the GnG but you are not paying for it? Wow...you must be one of those who usually jump queues. Those who queue up must be 1st class m*ron, right? Nothing is free my friend...If you don't pay, the rest will soon follow and the entire project will eventually fail. The more people participate, the less security fee shall be borne by each resident.

Now, let's get back to the main objective. What is the whole point of having a GnG? To safeguard the properties and lives of those living there. Just focus on this purpose and don't deviate from it by talking about the most unlikely scenario or something that is possible but not probable to happen or will happen outside Subang Jaya.

If you have something that works better than a GnG concept (proven in similar situation), let's hear it, otherwise, you are just those making noise fighting for your rights and in the mean time demotivating the 85% who are eager to implement it while the robbers and snatch thieves are having a field time somewhere in Subang Jaya.

In life, there is no such thing as 100% support. It's almost always majority wins. So, it's either you're in or you're out from the GnG participation. There are no 2 ways about it and you don't owe anybody any explanation. Nothing is entirely fair, so, calling each other selfish my friends.....will not help a single bit. Your enemy is out there, not your neighbors..... ;)

SCCheah

09-01-2010, 09:41 AM

Dear residents of USJ11/4

Allow me to introduce myself. My name is SCCheah and as you can see
from my email, I am the property columnist for NST Property. I have
been in journalism since 1975- one year in the now defunct National
Echo, 10 years in the NST, 23 years in The Star and now back to NST as
a semi-retired middle aged writer.

I have been a property writer since 1990 and writing is in my blood. I
like to drive around, observing housing developments -throughout the
country wherever possible, but mainly within the Klang Valley.

Briefly, I was the "wanted" man in the Dark Blue Volvo 940. My number
plate is WDA 3989 (but you guys put it as WQA 3989), yes an old jalopy
that served me well. I must apologise if my drive around had scared
some of you. I was also around the Tudor area and got mad at the
guards there when I saw how a road I used to breeze through has now
been barricaded.

You see, it is my job and my hobby to look around. I eat, sleep and
breathe property.

Alas, times have suddenly changed. My beloved USJ has now turned into
a paper fortress. Yes, I know some of you would like to slam me for
this view. Many of us have been victims of crimes.

Two of my houses have been broken into. I have lost over RM35k in cash
and valuables in my USJ 4 house. It was partly my fault as at that
time, I was one of the few houses still having chain link fence. But
since the break-in I have installed several locks and gates and built
back and front walls.

The wall of my back door was hacked opened and the thieves stole
almost all our jewelleries including my wife's diamond wedding ring.
My neighbour at the back who claimed to be a commandant of a security
firm did not even hear a noise when we were away. So much about
neighbours.
I only lost a portable DVD player in my Rawang bungalow. A thief
snatched the handbag of my wife from the front passenger seat of her
car right in front of our USJ house. She gave chase and fell and
injured herself.

That was a few years ago. However, I still do not believe in your kind of GnG.
While I respect your opinion that it is better to be safe than sorry,
I honestly believe that it will not solve anything, not even as a
deterrent. Mark my word. Why am I so brazen in saying so?

As a journalist, it is my job to ask, discover and test.
On Thursday morning I did my usual drive around. For an old man aged (coming) to 57, I need to drive around and see things to gain experience and
knowledge.

Yes, indeed I drove past your guard. Don't blame them for not stopping
me. I didn't want to stop for them. Why should I? The roads are not
yours. It is a public road.

I stopped in front on a house and politely asked a woman who was about
to enter her house (auto-gate), why she joined the GnG. I am sorry if
I have scared anyone. I don't think I look like a thug. What surprised
me was not that she is fearful of me. I don't blame her because anyone
would when a stranger suddenly appear in front of your house.

What surprised me was that she answered: "Talk to the committee". I
would have expected her to flee inside the house and not to talk to
strangers but to ask me to talk to the committee. What happened? I am
given the impression that now your RA rules your life?!

Then, I approached a gentleman who was coming out of his house. Again
I politely asked why he joined the GnG and he said it was a
deterrence.
But hey, what if I am a robber? Don't you think he could have been
robbed there and then?

Thankfully my USJ 4/1 area is still not a GnG because if it does, I
may consider making a police report and take the residents' committee
to court. I am now writing not as a journalist but as a long-time
resident of USJ. Despite being a victim three times over, I do not
want to see my beloved neighbourhood become a caged community.

The trouble with your kind of GnG is:

(1) You are doing it illegally by hijacking roads. Townships like USJ etc were not built nor planned this way. By blocking roads you are not only causing a lot of inconveniences but untold misery just to have your false senses of security.
(2) Although taking down particulars like IC or demanding visitors surrender their driving licence etc can strengthen your security system, they are also all illegal and will only infuriate members of the public more and even cause jams at guard posts especially during peak hours.
You all keep forgetting that your kind of GnG is different from the GnG of small, niche, upmarket developments where the strata-titled enclaves (which includes the internal roads) belong to the residents and residents there have every right to permit or bar visitors from coming in.
(3) I can talk until the cows come home but take a simple case- a bad hat can even rent or be an actual owner of a house in your very area- so he/she can even move in and out of your area. It is very wrong to distinguish RA members (who pay the RM50), and those who don't pay. You are segregating your very own community.

It is not true that GnG can foster closer rapport. In fact, it can backfire and create more disharmony, anger, and unhappiness. Yes, you may say that USJ 11 is a model GnG and crime rates have fallen. Bravo. Keep it up and I do hope your crime rates will continue to fall.

Until and unless the authorities surrender the road to the residents, members of the public have every right to drive in and out of your neighbourhood without being probed and questioned.

I feel I do not need to discuss more on the pros and cons of GnGs as everyone are very conversant about it.
I have made a survey in my drive around- almost all the small side
gates (at the fencing perimeter) of all GnGs (Bandar Sunway, Bandar
Utama, USJ etc) including yours are not locked. Yes, they are not
locked because people have the right to pass through (eg at the bus
stand) but therein lies one of your many loopholes. In fact, padlocks big or small can be prised opened easily.

Do you think hardened criminals will be afraid of your puny guards who
can't even speak English? I am not trying to throw cold water but
suffice to say, all the DIY GIGs will not be a deterrent for long.

Are you aware that there are many, many people who are against your
kind of GnG?

But how can you do it in townships like USJ. You are infringing on
people's right. They pay road tax too!

Are you aware that you are causing great distress for many people like
me who feel very sad and angry to see our beloved township turned into
a stupid toothless fortress?

I noticed in YB Hannah Yeoh's blog recently that many people condemned
a man Gilbert (or something) for breaking a lock at a gate. He is
treated like a thief. Why must he resort to such an action? He must
have been so frustrated, so angry that he has to do it. Hey, this poor
man could get a heart attack or go berserk but all bloggers/residents
worry is that broken lock! This is what this society has descended
into. No wonder there are bloggers who say residents committees are
like gangsters.

As I discover further, I noticed that RA's seem to have gone overboard
and seem to have a stranglehold over many things. I agree with what
one blogger said: that police patrol cars may even give GnGs a miss
and rather patrol non GnG areas!

Why are we cowering behind so-called security firms? Who are they?
Publish all the names of the guards, where they are from and their
background. Who are the commandants etc. I am not only directing at
your RA but to all RAs.

Are you paying the RM50 just for some peace of mind? How long do you think that peace of mind can hold?
Or are you paying RM50 just as protection money so that in case you the security firms may not be what they are, at least they may leave you alone.
Or are you one of those power crazy people who want to wield power in a RA committee? I know many RA committee members are sincerely doing their job, free of charge and working extremely but do look out for those with ulterior motives.

Some of you may say I merely talk. For your info, I was one of the few who did our own RT in my Rawang bungalow while the rest were sound alseep- just to help guard a road adjacent to my own weekend home road a few years ago.

I was also the one who initiated the backlane gates in USJ 4/1 with the help of two other residents and we have to go "begging" for a mere RM100 for six weeks. I feel backlane gates are OK and do not infringe on the rights of the general public.

One of the solutions is to urge the authorities to bring back Rukun Tetangga. The police should stop giving excuses of being under-staffed. It is of course good to defend ourselves but not the way you are all doing it.

Back in the 1970s, when I was working in NST in KL and renting a room, I and many people were doing RT in the Jalan Riong area for months. I was the Commander, wearing a Commander's armband and we walked the streets while people were sound asleep.

But of course times have changed- carrying sticks and batons will be useless against parang-wielding or gun-totting robbers. That's why RT also needs to be changed. Members should also be accompanied by a policeman. Just a suggestion.

Thank you.

SCCheah

SCCheah

09-01-2010, 10:52 AM

Dear samng,

Please reveal yourself rather than hide behind a false name.

I claimed that many people are also against your kind of GnG but without actual facts, I dare not give a percentage.

You gave a percentage that 80 plus per cent are for GnG. Maybe it's your area. Show me the proof.. the names, addresses and signatures.
What about other areas? The authorities should publish the names, details, the background of all so-called security firms and trace any conflict of interest amongst politicians with these security companies and/or residents.
Even if 100 per cent are for GnG, so long as you are doing it illegally, it is still WRONG!

I called up a senior police officer in Subang Jaya yesterday and he said it is still a grey area. Correct me if I am wrong, there is no grey area.

Let the government and courts decide and we shall all follow.

There are some bloggers out there scolding people who are against GnG and childishly saying that since anti GnG people are not victims of robberies they merely complain until they too get robbed.

I have been robbed thrice and maybe more coming but I DON'T support your stupid kind of GnG.

You want a really good security system, go stay in an upmarket exclusive enclave where they employ real and reliable security guards and you have to pay top dollars for it. No money? Then you are trying to inconvenience others who don't share your kind of Do-It-Yourself GnG and forcing others to share your "prison".

BTW, many years ago, gangsters even beat up security guards at Sierramas and places like Duta Nusantara also kena. Despite having many guards, a family was reported gagged and robbed.

It is not only inconvenience, it amounts to duress and mental torture. One day someone hemmed in by these caged prisons may go berserk and whack all of you with a parang!

Many people are more fearful of the guards and the security firms being linked to gangsters than anything else.

SCCheah.

Come out of your false identity and give us your real name!

SCCheah

09-01-2010, 05:58 PM

samng,

You said RT is insulting the intelligence of robbers. Your kind of GnG is more insulting the intelligence of even novice thieves.

As for your claims to majority wins, people who bought houses in places like USJ understood that it is an open concept unlike a strata property like condo/apartment/shopoffice or upmarket GnG enclave where you share the common property with others.

Be that as it may, even giving allowance to your majority claim, the minority can still sue for what you all are doing is illegal. Even assuming the law changes and is in favour of your GnG, I believe, people can sue and win. Let's see.

sjkaki

10-01-2010, 12:07 AM

Sc Cheah,

You may be a veteran writer on subjects you brag you know best. Pls dont preach to people who are trying to do what is best for the majority. You truly believe your are the knowledgeable one about the legalities of the issue. Laws are not static. If there are laws that are not working to serve the interest of the majority, then perhaps we should seek to change the laws through our representatives. Even if the laws are amended, this will not stop people who are bent on stirring the pot. Well if they sue, see them in court.

Instead of wasting your time lecturing people here, why dont you do something positive and come up with suggestions to improve things rather than throwing tantrum.

Just like the RA who have gone to have countless meetings with the authorities to secure support for the GnG programs, you and your fellow aggrieved can also discuss your displeasure with the same authorities.

I have my say and shall not not waste more time to entertain you.

Also save your breath, dont challenge me to reveal my identity. I will be like you. I dont like your intrusion and you have no business asking for my name.

SCCheah

10-01-2010, 12:33 AM

Dear sjkaki,

You still don't get it.

I hope you will read my comments properly.

Firstly I didn't preach nor did I claim I know the law. So don't fly into a tangent.
What I am saying is until the law is changed, it is wrong to hijack roads. There are many people out there who share my view that this kind of GnG is not sustainable and there are strong suspicion among many quarters that we may be inviting the wrong people to secure the GnG. Got it?

As for your laughable comment about me throwing tantrums, I think it is the other way- I noticed that proponents of GnGs seem so set in their ways that they not only throw tantrums but scold, abuse others without regards to decent courtesy and want to have their ways.

I am only appealing to a sense of fairness and justice that property owners like myself who came here probably before some of you were born, have the right to choose the way we live. You don't just bulldoze your way by hijacking roads.

It is very different if you buy a home in a new development where residents already know from Day 1 that it is a GnG. As I repeatedly said our township was not planned that way. Got it?

I have given my suggestions if you read carefully. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but kindly don't use harsh words.

Also, where is your majority that you are talking? Even if there is a majority in a particular neighbourhood, you cannot ignore the rights and interests of the minority who bought houses in USJ or for that matter elsewhere -plainly because when they bought their property it was an open concept.

I also do not wish to entertain you.

Thank you.

SCCheah

10-01-2010, 09:42 AM

Dear All USJ Residents,

Over the past week I have been looking up most of the blogs in this website for the first time and beginning to realise (albeit belatedly) that the GnG has the backing of the current state government. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Apparently, it too has the backing of our YB Hannah Yeoh and many people have worked very hard for the GnG. I am also given to understand that the GnG is supposed to be temporary - maybe for 5 years until the police force is able to beef up its capacity.

However, this is an extremely sensitive issue. I noticed from my talks with many people, the GnG has also drawn a lot of opposition including from people who were initially for this concept but later realised that the RAs have gone overboard and are now against it.

As for me I am totally against it.

A better long-term way is to bring back the RT but some people who are good only in condemning others who oppose their views seem reluctant to do RT. They would prefer to throw their RM50 and let the guards do their work.

Well, so much for youngsters of today. I do detect a sense of envy when I say I have been a RT Commander etc and they say I brag. Maybe it will be a good thing for youngsters to do some night-patrolling with the police instead which is a good form of exercise instead of partying or glue your eyes and fingers on the computer, spreading rumours and attacking people!

Another way is to create the Safe Street concept which some property developers are already doing and that is to install CCTVs in our roads. Indeed, USJ already has some CCTV cameras but in case our government is short of money, companies and well wishers can help donate CCTVs.

Without sounding too long-winded and I hope youngsters out there will try to understand is you cannot and should not turn existing townships with its many access roads into GnG without causing a lot of inconveniences to people.

It is easy to say we must make sacrifices - maybe you are not the one rushing here and there sending young children to school etc.

Many of you still miss the point and brag, yes brag (using your own words) that the current state government will change the law. While I am not sure whether they are actually doing it, I wish to give a gentle reminder that the PR government may end up losing a lot of its current supporters if it does not handle the matter with care and maturity.

I wish to reiterate that townships like USJ were developed some 20 years ago. People bought houses here with the full understanding that it is an open concept. Even if out of 100 houses, 99 houses are for GnG, you cannot ignore the wish of the sole house owner unlike a strata-titled property where you know from Day 1 you have to share the common property and living environment and in such a case the majority wins.

It is very important in the current haste and exercise to implement GnG, RAs must properly inform every resident concerned not just through websites but actually calling on the residents if they want to do a proper job.

In my USJ 4/1 case, I was shocked when I surfed the SubangJaya/USJ website for the first time recently that the USJ4/1 Aman RA has met so many times and proceeded to do so many things without so much as dropping leaflets in my letter box. I only received one form asking me whether I am for or against the GnG and I had promptly registered my opposition to it.

You cannot steamroll things without creating animosity.

There are already cases of growing tensions and opposition against the GnG and I call on the authorities to reconsider the matter carefully.

The Pakatan Rakyat Government may lose its support from even its staunch supporters come next General Election!

The arrogant behaviour of your bloggers will speed up your downfall!

SCCheah

10-01-2010, 05:57 PM

Dear KW Chang,

I understand how Lord is feeling. At least he and many people like me are civil enough to vent their frustrations in this website.

What about others who can only seeth quietly inside until one day it explodes and all hell breaks loose? The current "terrorist" kind of atmosphere whereby some bloggers verbally abuse those who do not support the GnG (there was an incident reported in the paper when a youth shouted Shut Up at an elderly man at a RA meeting on GnG) has led to unhappy residents allegedly resorting to counter-terrorist activities like damaging fencing (see some blogs).

This may lead to a real bad situation. Who started this GnG thing?

True, GnG, RT, NW, CCTVs, Police all are not crime-proof. That's the fact of life. Since that is so, why create such a horrible sight, such a terrible caged up, unfriendly, cold neighbourhood?

Unless one is used to prison life, the very sight of the ubiquitous fencing is enough to make you throw up.

The biggest joke is, despite all the money spent on fencing, all the money spent on paying the guards (I read in some blogs that the salary come to a whopping RM20k a month!), it is still fraught with loopholes.

So why do it in the first place? Why segregate your neighbours with Red and Yellow car stickers? Why differentiate your neighbours with big RA plaques and those who refused to pay with nothing at their gate pillars?

Why are you all doing this? Have you all gone MAD??!

Just now while it was raining heavily (Sunday), I spoke to one of the shopkeepers in the USJ 11 area. One guy sarcastically pointed to those houses and said: "Millionaires!".

Yes, many of you are trying to copy the millionaires in their GnG. Those enclaves were properly planned and in many of them the roads BELONG to them. Outsiders do not have free access. Period.

Please read the other blogs - like 11Trees@USJ. I was an anonymous writer who tried to express my feelings but what did the editor say? Read his very sarcastic and rude comments and you form your opinion.

If you read further, despite the GnG, USJ11/3 (one of the most fortified GnGs) have robberies and even its new fencing was damaged. The guard house too apparently was also vandalised.

They chided and cursed a fellow resident of breaking a lock at one of the mini gates. This is only the tip of a dangerous iceberg poised to sink our spirit of muhibbah where one selfish group of residents are hell bent on having GnGs without due regards to the feelings of the rest which in many areas are in the majority!

Yes, I am waiting to see how sustainable this kind of GnG will last. Already there have been reports of break-ins. The real damage is not just loss of property but the breaking up of our once beloved township into fragments of GnGs that look real silly in the eyes of the criminals.

What is more worrying is that instead of being self-reliant, we again like the maids' problems, are delegating our security problems to guards whose credentials may be dubious.

Let us be afraid, be very afraid that this GnG thing may turn out into nothing but one big scam - big business for the security companies and a tool for some political agenda.

Yes, we are not only in the grip of rising crime rates but may unwittingly end up in a hell-hole difficult to get out.

Ultimately the police MUST do their job. No two-way about that.

A passing note: A Chinese friend of mine lives in USJ 11. Her daughter has a close Malay girl-friend living just across the road. They used to walk over to each other's house. Now a formidable-looking fencing has parted them. They can only meet via big detour by car.

All in the name of security?

Wake up everybody. You can be robbed anywhere!!!

SCCheah

10-01-2010, 07:13 PM

1. i dont have a job and i have nothing else better to do.
2. i like to irritate people.
3. i'm a pain in the a*$e.
4. i dont like communities.
5. who am i going to rob then?

Read leetickseng (105) and deuces (116).

What do you think?
Funny isn't it? So those who object about something is a pain in the a#$e?

How about I join in the fun and give some of the possible reasons why people set up the DIY GnG.

(1) I am so kiasu/ Others doing it. Better do it also in my area.
(2) Aiyah, only RM50 a month. mah? Cheap, cheap. I pay RM550 for Indon maid to clean my toilet etc. So let those guards protect me. I can sleep in peace.
(3) I don't trust the guards..heard they could be crooks. But better pay up just in case they whack my car!
(4) I don't know what to do. The RA keep pestering me. I better give in.
(5) Ha, ha, see I am now enjoying what multi-millionaires in Tropicana, Sierramas are getting..my very own GnG. Cheh, cheap only.
(6) GnG- no problem for me. The exit point is just outside my house. Ha, ha too bad for the others...they got to go round and round every day.
(7) I support GnG but not paying. Told them I am just a tenant. My other neighbour said he is too poor but we support.
(8) We support because we support Hannah Yeoh.
(9) I want to be in RA committee. I've leadership abilities. I enjoy power and controlling others.
(10) I've been a victim before. Anything is better than nothing. You can build paper gates and I will still join. I am so scared. I don't even dare to go out.
(11) I want a high wall around me- electric fencing would be better. Guards should carry guns. Can't care too hoots about those neighbours who oppose. They can shift out.
(12) I am just a teenager while my sister is a young executive. Of course we are not paying but we tell our old man to join but he refused. Silly old man. Let him pay lah. We make noise and hentam those trouble makers who oppose. We are the blogging terrorists.

Anymore?
Which fits you better?

SCCheah

11-01-2010, 09:41 AM

Great point dear JennyLim (posting No. 64).

Firstly, I wish to apologise for being so late in noticing all these discussions until about a few days ago.
Truth is I had not logged into the SubangJaya/USJ website and missed out on all these discussions until suddenly I saw USJ turned into the likes of a Nazi concentration camp.

I hope bloggers can help inform me of any public hearings/discussions in future. I will surely attend.

Yes, in my rounds as a property writer I have seen many GnGs, including a few in USJ but Great Lord, in recent months, our beloved USJ has become a creepy, cold, concentration camp reminiscent of some housing areas in South Africa!

Indeed Jenny hit right on target - you may as well fence up Taipan, station guards there - because unless you have just returned from Mars, there were and still are lots of snatch thefts there. There was a report sometime back when a man was hacked just as had come out from a bank. Hack first and rob later.

So now you all feel safe in your respective neighbourhoods but voila, when you drop by at one of the banks at Taipan you may be robbed there and then!

Am I frightening you- well not as bad as some fantastic bloggers out there who are not only abusive but downright foolish and illogical in their kind of thinking.

We are all afraid. Nobody is a hero but we must get on with our life. Stand up and face those robbers. I've been a victim thrice but that is not going to stop me from having my walks around my lovely neighbourhood.

But no thanks to supporters of our ridiculous GnG, now I can't even walk over to the other areas as they are all fenced up. Some of them still have side gates opened and I could slip through but so can robbers and thieves.

The long-term effects will be:

1. Lots of inconveniences.
I noticed that in USJ 11, they not only barricaded all the entrance/exit points except one or two, but they also put silly boom gates over every internal road. Imagine if your house is just at the corner of this boom gate, you have to pass five or six roads, make a big turn before you can reach your home.
If the idea is to prevent outside vehicles or crooks in cars from easy access, they can just park beside the boom gate and walk into the road and rob you. Please put on your thinking cap!

2. Friction among neighbours.
How can you all say you got majority support? Are they genuine or perhaps someone signed up for a neighbour without his knowledge. Be transparent. If you want to do it, put up a notice board at a playground - with names of all those who support, signatures etc. Then residents can verify.
There have been a lot of uncalled for remarks that people who don't pay are "freeloaders" "ar@# holes", "paying lip service" etc. Hey, count yourself lucky that they haven't sued yet. You all force your kind of GnG upon us!
Other forms of friction include identifying those who pay and those who don't. You are trying to shame your neighbours which is real bad and childish. Have you considered their mental anguish which is 1,000 times worse than fearing the robbers? No wonder some people are waging guerilla warfare by ramming gates etc and you call them names?!.

3. Spoon-feeding the police/authorities.
This may seem a harsh observation but nevertheless true. There is so much the Rakyat can do. The more you take over the responsibilities of the police, the more they will give you.
When my two houses were burgled, I was shocked when the police who came to look for finger prints said there were no finger prints and left within a few minutes in my house. Don't tell me my family and I don't have finger prints?!

4. Sorry sight.
Tell me honestly, do you see USJ or for that matter other places, nicer now or worse? I see it as a very ugly prison and it causes me mental anguish. I have been shouted at by guards when I zip past them, residents eye me like a thug although I look fairly decent. You are the ones causing all these phobias etc. If for example you are a cancer survivor, do you hunker down at home and refuse to meet people or do you carry on with a zestful life? Stand up and be brave!

5. DIY GnG full of loopholes.
The list is too long without boring you all. Suffice to say, whatever imaginable deterrence that you may have enjoyed won't last long if the police don't do their job properly. Sometimes I feel like staging a "robbery" in a GnG with the co-operation of the police, TV, newspapers etc (all disguised) to prove a point! It will be as easy as ABC.

6. Long term commitment and pyschological effect.
Although I am no psychologist, I can imagine the kind of psychological impact our children will have growing up in a neighbourhood full of barbed wires, oil drums, boom gates, guards etc. One day they may grow up barricading their own bedrooms!
Worse, if the security system turns out to be a form of crooks demanding protection money, then we are all doomed!

Thank you.

jan tomaswaki

11-01-2010, 03:14 PM

My goodness! SCCheah you are such a profolic writer,although i don't stay in SJ,I 100% sokong your objection,carry on your good motives.No need to say more.

chsum

11-01-2010, 07:33 PM

err..sccheah, you still don't get it why ppl choose GnG, they are not only worried about loosing 35k cash, wedding ring to robbers, wife got hurt by snatch thieves (she wasn't badly hurt right?) or any of the 12 reasons you posted, they are more worried of lossing one life, or worse the one they loved, partially or totally disable, rape or disfigure.
You r a family man right? tell me what have you done to protect them from the above? Did you do your best given the financial constrain (I assume you r a salary man)?

I must agree with you that not all GnG was implemented in a proper way and some of them are downright arrogant, but if you can see the reason why ppl implement it, why don't you attack the problem not the ppl.(I thought that was the motto of this forum right?)

my gng sense

SCCheah

11-01-2010, 10:29 PM

Kindly read all my comments properly.

I think basically many of you still don't get it.

Do you think by merely engaging the service of security guards and so-called fortifying your neighbourhood with GnG you are actually protecting your loved ones besides yourself?

But you are doing it for your own selfish reasons, breaking the law and worse, may actually create long-term problems - from traffic jams/congestion, creating deep animosity among your fellow residents and worse may even cause lives?

How?

Don't turn your face and behave innocent when an ambulance cannot reach a sick person in time and that person dies as a result of the ambulance groping around because of the many obstacles put up - no thanks to GnG die-hards.

Don't say "I don't know" when one day your neighbour's house is burnt down because the fire engine went on a wild goose chase after being blocked by boom gates put inside your internal roads.

Don't be sorry when your "employees" - the security guards - suddenly turn out to be the crooks! Already there have been break-ins and burglaries in GnGs.

A resident's child from USJ 11/4 (GnG) was robbed in USJ11/3 (also GnG) - read up in their website.

You cheekily asked me what I have done for my family?
When I was a bachelor I was already doing months of Rukun Tetangga. What have you all done besides throwing your RM50 note and let the guards solve your problems or throw RM550 to let a maid to do your housework?

When my USJ house was broken into, I spent quite a sum on building rear and front/side walls and many grille doors and wrought iron gate. That's my way of protecting my family.

I initiated the building of four backlane gates at a road in USJ 4/1. Before you jump up and say that it's the same as GnG, allow me to remind you, it's different.

The DIY GnG is infringing the rights of not only your fellow residents but the general public for the simple reason that they are public roads. Got it? If not- end of the story. You all don't act illegally, arrogantly and with utter contempt as to the feelings of others and then boastfully claim that you all are the employers of the guards!

Unlike backlane gates which have minimal intrusion/inconvenience, the kind of GnGs that have sprouted everywhere in USJ is ridiculous to say the least!

While it is morally and legally wrong of GnG proponents to tell opponents to shift out (why should we? We all bought properties here with open eyes that it is an open concept) if we are unhappy, on the contrary, we may request you all to consider moving to some new residential projects that come with GnG.

Got it?

SCCheah

11-01-2010, 11:11 PM

What RM35k cash or 12 reasons are you talking about?

I lost RM35k in cash and valuables. Exact cash is only RM500 - marketing money in a box but mostly jewelleries, two brand new digital cameras, two brand new shoes (still in the plastic bag) etc. Anything else you want to know?

As for 12 reasons? They are the possible reasons why people put up GnG and I mentioned it jokingly in response to some jokers who gave reasons why people are against GnG.

Of course even a fool will know that they want to protect their own lives as well as their family. But this is not the way to protect your own lives or avoid being raped.

Your wife or daughter can still be raped in basement car park or elsewhere. If all are so afraid you may as well stay indoors and don't come out - then there may be no road accidents and you don't get slash when you go out.

You may as well barricade yourself in your bedroom or toilet!

Mark my word - that the more you rely on something (maid/security guards etc), they may turn back and bite you if not already!!!

Some of you may act haughtily just because you can afford RM50 and others cannot. However, for many opponents of GnG I believe it is a matter of principle and not the money.

I have no financial constraints. On the contrary, I fear some people have mental constraints and cannot see the crooks from the GnGs!

shthang

12-01-2010, 12:23 AM

Your wife or daughter can still be raped in basement car park or elsewhere. If all are so afraid you may as well stay indoors and don't come out - then there may be no road accidents and you don't get slash when you go out.

You may as well barricade yourself in your bedroom or toilet!

SCCheah, different opinions are welcomed in this forum but uttered the above lines are very insensitive and not civic. I take offence of such remarks.

i also noted few of your posts are targetting 1 individual in USJ11. if you are going after him in this open forum, it's best you take this battle outside of this forum please.

guess you are new to this forum, allow me to share with you some of the house rules that you may not be awared of.
http://www.usj.com.my/forum-rules.php3

SCCheah

12-01-2010, 12:35 AM

It's a fact isn't it?

It was not insensitive but a fair response. However, if it has hurt anyone inadvertently, my apology.

On the contrary, it is very insensitive to put up GnGs and cause misery to others.

Thank you.

btc

12-01-2010, 02:05 AM

Wow! Mr. Cheah, I used to follow your property column in the star. Since I don't read the nst I've lost touch with your writings. May I know is this typical of the new writing style of your articles in nst recently? Your posts in this thread sound like you are a very angry aggressive unreasonable person; like somebody has stepped on your tail recently! You have put forward some good points but the tone of your posts shocked me as somebody who is very unreasonable and in some parts downright very rude and offensive; especially coming from you as a respected property writer in malaysia! In my opinion you appear to have gone berserk!

chsum

12-01-2010, 07:58 AM

Do you think by merely engaging the service of security guards and so-called fortifying your neighbourhood with GnG you are actually protecting your loved ones besides yourself?
Yes at the moment, if you have a better idea, pls share.

But you are doing it for your own selfish reasons, breaking the law and worse, may actually create long-term problems - from traffic jams/congestion, creating deep animosity among your fellow residents and worse may even cause lives?
If it cause traffic jam and lives, I am sure you will be the first reporter there to report the incidence with headlines "GnG Kills", pls report facts not speculation.

Unlike backlane gates which have minimal intrusion/inconvenience, the kind of GnGs that have sprouted everywhere in USJ is ridiculous to say the least!
Is that legal to build back lane gates? was it in the law? if it's not
So what you say, is that you can have GnG if it cause minimal intrusion/inconvenience?

Let me give you a summary of how GnG started off, they were the pioneers of NW in the turn of the millinium, due to the geographical suitability for robbers and snatch thieves, usj18, 17,16, & 27 was a crime hotbed while the rest of usj still enjoy low crime rate, why? easy access to highway for get away, numerous bike lane where police cannot get to them (at that time there were no big bike for our local police force), the NW was dying as less n less ppl join the patrol at night, n they see a shift of break ins from night to day which renders NW ineffective, daylight snatch thieves occurs daily onces u step out of ur house, school kids were not spared, they practically ruled the roads, the camry gang making their mark every week, that were the times of seige, ppl do not dare to venture out to the playgrounds.

will con't

my gng sense

SCCheah

12-01-2010, 08:02 AM

Yes, dear friend,

There are many people out there who have approached me venting their wrath. But they either would not, dare not or could not express themselves properly.

Good that my tone sends home the message that all is not well. Step on my tail you say? Or did I step on your tail or others' tails for sounding out what many people have bottled up their feelings? Actually, it is your tone that tries to belittle others. No?

You are all stepping on many people's lives!

I bought my USJ house in 1990 and have been living there ever since. I love this neighbourhood and have over 2,000 photos of it since 1990 - including those of USJ 11 when it was a much higher ground with a Hindu temple on it. The land was then levelled.

Many people have been cowed by the aggressive and rude attitudes of the pro-GnGs. They thought everyone would keep quiet.

You asked whether I have gone Gila? Let's say it is you people who have probably gone Gila and driving people like me Gila as well by cordoning off so many roads.

At least I identify myself while the others keep safely behind false names and take the liberty to whack others.

I am as much a resident as all our fellow USJ residents and I feel strongly against the current GnG which is causing lots of disharmony and mental stress on people like me.

By the way, my comments here are as an individual. Please don't mix it with NST.

I am not sure whether you have driven around USj and other places. If you have and you feel there is nothing wrong, fine. You are entitled to your opinion. If you haven't, please do.

Show me how unreasonable or rude I have been? I have systematically showed my arguments. What have the pro-GnGs done? They condemn, bully and impose their own kind of rules on others.

As for the other blogger chsum, who said that backlane gates could also be illegal. Well, legal or illegal at least it does not infringe the rights of the general public. Got it?

As to your claim that I will be the first on the scene to report that GnG kills..so laughable indeed.

It will be your own residents who will come down on you. Why, are you afraid?

Also chsum, how can you claim in this open forum that at the moment you feel safe. Don't you follow your own happenings? There are already robberies in USJ 11! Let me know if there are some more or perhaps you rather not reveal?

Thank you.

nona

12-01-2010, 08:33 AM

fuhyooo....getting very hot in here

birdy

12-01-2010, 08:43 AM

What really frustrated about GnG is the road closure. I do somehow support GnG but wonder why the authority never questions on those resident association that close the road at their own will? They don't own the road, that's the public road. They can manned a guard to check at the entry point but why are they blocking the access of the road.

The situation is worst in PJ, try to visit Tmn Megah, used to have few road to access, now left only 1 road to enter and exit... that actually causes traffic congestion. Why are the authority not bothering this???????????

nona

12-01-2010, 08:51 AM

I am one of those not for GnG and my area have not fallen into the bandwagon yet and I really hope it stays that way.

Eventhough GnG gives a sense of security and some form of protection for residents, I would had get a place in guarded area for landed property or a condo with security and stuff if I wanted GnG in the first place. But I bought this place last year for some obvious reasons and the way it is laid out and maintained.

So I will not be really happy is someone wants to change it just because majority wants it. Majority is not always right just...majority is nothing but a popular decision.

Then again..I believe if every single house owner (100%) in the area wants GnG...why not...have it that way la. And similar to gated communities, apartments and condos where the roads, landscaping and other utilities should also be privately maintained. Because once GnG in place only a selected few can use the infrastruture in the area.

Well that's what I think. As for me at the moment I have iron grill and alarm system, may be will get a big fierce dog....ehmm...may be a security guard at my gate :D

SCCheah

12-01-2010, 09:29 AM

Dear Nona,

Thanks for sharing your views on GnG.

I am quite new to this website not like some veterans who have thousands of postings. But let's have constructive postings.

Like chsum, he asked me to give ideas. I have given some suggestions. Please read all my comments carefully.

But I try in the last few days to express my strong feelings against the way GnG is being set up.

Nona, can I trouble you to read a bit of my recent comments so that you may have a better picture of this issue that is erupting into a "battle royale"?

I hope I have been polite enough although some bloggers try to instigate and say I sound rude etc. If some people think it is an angry tone. They are wrong. It was meant to be a very fierce tone but not rude and unreasonable like the very sarcastic tone of others.

We, the opponents of the current form of GnG (blocking public roads, erecting barriers everywhere etc), are appealing to our fellow residents to re-consider your actions.

There is a rising tide of protest as more and more people are fed up with this kind of obstruction.

If all fails and residents still want it their way and claiming to have 85 per cent support (I understand there have been complains that some GnGs were pushed through without that number), we will see.

Just as many pro-GnGs people try to sow seeds of fear that without GnGs we are goners and in the clutch of criminals. Well, allow me to give the following scenario:

(1) A resident totally fed up with GnG and cannot "tahan" anymore living in this kind of prison, sells his property at below market price. What happens? If more do that the market value of a particular area may also "turun". But of course it may not.

(2) In the frenzy to go GnG as the new trend, some people may support but believe me, as more and more supporters become disillusioned and you cannot get enough collections what happens? It may die a natural death. What happens to the thousand of guards everywhere? Where do they go?

(3) Another possibility is that someone goes to court and challenges the matter. If he/she wins, down come all your fencing. If he/she loses, then you keep all your fencing etc.

Of course chsum will say talk facts and don't speculate. I agree with you chsum...so pro-GnGs should not merely speculate that their kind of GnG can protect you or your loved ones (maybe now but how long?) permanently. What happens when you step out of your "protected" domain?
Ultimately it boils down to police protection.
I have lots of stories to tell about the police force. Maybe I will tell ASP Loi one day when I meet him.

I know some of you may feel offended by my constant criticism of DIY GnG. I have to sound out my views as my beloved township is under attack by GnG prisons.

Thank you

chsum

12-01-2010, 10:20 AM

err..ayam back,

now, where were me... wah sccheah, u don't ave to work ah so free

:)

Well, legal or illegal at least it does not infringe the rights of the general public. Got it?
yes it does, it infringe my right to walk pass ur back lane, it's the micro version of ur macro infringe, got it?

It will be your own residents who will come down on you. Why, are you afraid?
If my resident have come down on me, GnG will be long gone even b4 we started, I am not afraid.

Also chsum, how can you claim in this open forum that at the moment you feel safe. Don't you follow your own happenings? There are already robberies in USJ 11! Let me know if there are some more or perhaps you rather not reveal?
I can safely tell you that the crime at GnG area r much more lower than non GnG area, don't bealieve me, ask the police. One thing u ave to understand that GnG reduce crime but not eliminate it.

Well, let me continue with my story telling,
In the middle of the night, at least once every week, we can hear police siren, chasing a motorbike coming into our area and using the motorbike lane to get away from the police, it usually ends with tyre screech at the end and then silence. The last straw for me is when these scums started to ambush school kids for their h/p n pocket money (the bike lane was frequently used by school kids with long lalang on both ends), it's a matter of time when one get killed or raped as it's an ideal ambush n get away area. Police do come by, but not frequent enough to stop these attack, we were at our wits end, we felt like we were lamb ready to be slaughtered.... our NW was ineffective n dying, police says they r short of staff, who can we turn to? Ghost busters?...

to be con't

my gng sense

SCCheah

12-01-2010, 10:56 AM

Hi chsum- you also don't have to work ah? So free?

You said: yes it does, it infringe my right to walk pass ur back lane, it's the micro version of ur macro infringe, got it?

Are you trying to split hairs to justify your major infringement? Why would you like to pass through my backlane- see my laundry being hang there or do you want to help me do some washing too? I may mistake you for a thief. When people pass through your internal roads they want to go to the gardens or visit a friend without being hassled by your guards. Also when you block roads you are causing inconveniences even to your own residents. Wonder how old you are?

You said: If my resident have come down on me, GnG will be long gone even b4 we started, I am not afraid.

That is because no one fortunately has died yet. If you are not afraid, why are you having GnG? The criminals will see you as covering in fear. Stand up Man and lead a normal life.
Of course you may say GnG gives you added protection like a special armour plate on your body. Then go and seek out new developments that come from Day 1 with GnG- not all are expensive homes. Some fairly affordable developments are now properly designed as GnG as purchasers go for it- offending no one.
As I said we are all afraid- different degrees, We are all concerned and worried with the crime rates but we must love our neighbours and consider their anguish and not selfishly steamroll things. Even if you have majority support, are you going to snub the minority? USJ is an open concept township. I have said many times.

You said: I can safely tell you that the crime at GnG area r much more lower than non GnG area, don't bealieve me, ask the police. One thing u ave to understand that GnG reduce crime but not eliminate it.

Of course I understand- even the backlanes, police, CCTVs- all cannot eliminate crimes. There is absolutely no argument about that.
Sigh, I am saying that all the blocking over public roads are wrong and since we all agree it is not crime proof, why do it and cause friction amongst residents who probably stayed here before some of you were born?

I think we are going round and round.

Thank you chsum- it's very entertaining of you.

chsum

12-01-2010, 01:49 PM

Are you trying to split hairs to justify your major infringement? Why would you like to pass through my backlane- see my laundry being hang there or do you want to help me do some washing too?

To get to the other side of the backlane of course! same question, why do you want to pass through my front lane - to see my laundry too (I hang my flags in front), I am trying to get to the points is, laws r created by ppl n can be change by ppl, it's wrong to block front n back lanes, how do u argue blocking backlanes r a ok n front are no no, now comes the democratic process of majority rules (I last check, we r ruled by a party with a only majority votes right, u don't like them, they will tell u to fly kite.) ;)

Wonder how old you are?

I am old enough to enjoy the traffic jam free road of KFC exit, while the only bank in SJ was UMBC bank (u must be crazy bank).

That is because no one fortunately has died yet. If you are not afraid, why are you having GnG? The criminals will see you as covering in fear. Stand up Man and lead a normal life.

U mean having a gng is afraid of criminals? organise one and running is no mean feat, if thats not standing up againts the criminal, selling my hse n move to a gng area is? u tell me. :confused:
Tell me what else can I do?

Sigh, I am saying that all the blocking over public roads are wrong and since we all agree it is not crime proof, why do it and cause friction amongst residents who probably stayed here before some of you were born?

Not crime proof, but effective way to reduce crime considerbly for resident to lead a normal life alas in a gated area, hmm.. now it reminds me go back to my story telling.

Hence the birth of Gng, open or close system, to block or not to block the roads, open system first, there r still break in, paying residents r complaning they demand instant result, gng stands on a knife edge, close system, block all side roads put up fence, walla, drastic drop in crime, come evening, I can hear the sound of children laughter from the playground, neighbours jogging waving to u, life goes on.... :)

my gng sense

SCCheah

12-01-2010, 02:07 PM

Ha! Ha! Enjoy yourself!

AnakKarim

12-01-2010, 02:17 PM

maxout

12-01-2010, 02:32 PM

BTW, just my point of view, just out of curiosity, I have heard of threats to go to court etc etc ... why not just do it and then settle this matter once and for all - legal or not, if not, REMOVE ALL. Get a restraining order to prevent the setup of GnG if not yet up, or if already up - a removal order?

All this slanging on cyberspace, smashing of locks, driving into the barriers, cursing at each other, sniping etc etc are leading nowhere, as the proponents will still proceed and the detractors will continue to "bitch". Kind of an impasse that is causing bad COMMUNITY blood while the crooks laugh from one house break-in to the next - better to once and for all, get a legal judgement and settle this issue.

umadavid

12-01-2010, 02:32 PM

SCCheah and AnakKarim are one and the same...wonder why the need to create a sidekick to support yrself???? :confused: One person, two nicks!

currymee

12-01-2010, 02:57 PM

SCCheah and AnakKarim are one and the same...wonder why the need to create a sidekick to support yrself???? :confused: One person, two nicks!

Oh-yah - just spotted it also - you are very observant ! umadavid ;)

birdy

12-01-2010, 03:23 PM

SCCheah and AnakKarim are one and the same...wonder why the need to create a sidekick to support yrself???? :confused: One person, two nicks!
The style of writing also the same ... like to use title for the reply :p

AnakKarim

12-01-2010, 03:35 PM

umadavid

12-01-2010, 03:48 PM

Birdy and umadavid or birdy and currymee also one and the same too. Likes to use caricatures on top. Style also the same. Same style loh! How many sidekicks are there? Tak boleh tahan to see people support SCCheah ah? We are his avid followers!
Obviously, he does not know how we know, let's not let the cat out of the bag...lol :D

currymee

12-01-2010, 03:52 PM

Obviously, he does not know how we know, let's not let the cat out of the bag...lol :D

PHEW !! luckily I saw your post and deleted mine asap - cat nearly got out !!! :D

I can assure I maybe be a bowl of other noodles (long long time ago - now defunct) BUT I am NO BIRDY !!! :p

birdy

12-01-2010, 04:00 PM

Birdy and umadavid or birdy and currymee also one and the same too. Likes to use caricatures on top. Style also the same. Same style loh! How many sidekicks are there? Tak boleh tahan to see people support SCCheah ah? We are his avid followers!
Please do your own research before giving such a constructive comment. ;) We support each other but we don't know each other .. at least not for now. :)

SCCheah

12-01-2010, 04:36 PM

Hahahahah. I didn't know blogging can be such fun for an old man and that it can arouse so much excitement.

You mean to say a journalist of 33 to 34 years in the media don't know about IPs? Have you been to The Star office or not? We deal with technical stuff everyday!

Thanks daughter for fighting for daddy. I love you. She is quite young and her English is probably better than most of you. She has started blogging. She feels the same way as me. She feels that her once beautiful USJ is like a caged prison and there are many blogging "terrorists" out there.

Carry on be daddy's second mouth piece because there will be more to come.

She has learnt something today.

I leave you to all your theatrics. If you are a student- better concentrate on your studies. Very enjoyable session.

SCCheah

AnakKarim

12-01-2010, 04:42 PM

You are my hero dad!

Mr SCCheah- the brave who dares to speak out. Tak boleh tahan ke?

kwchang

12-01-2010, 05:35 PM

Let us not confuse the issue with multiple nicks coming from the same household. It is important to maintain integrity in a discussion forum. Since sccheah understands the problem of IP addresses, he should also understand that all readers to the Forum are unable to determine if the posts from 2 different nicks from the same IP is originally 1 person. We shall assume that it is one person.

The only way to resolve this identity issue is we meet up at the next TT session at Syed's Bistro in USJ8 so that we can verify all parties in SCCheah's household who would like to post to the Forum.

In order to maintain SCCheah's integrity in this Forum, I have deleted AnakKarim to avoid this confusion.

currymee

12-01-2010, 05:44 PM

KW, point noted and understood - SCCheah has argued a good case against GnG, that plus point should be acknowledged.

btc

12-01-2010, 05:51 PM

Mr. Cheah, I have been staying here since 1980. Much longer than you and also very much older than you. How times have changed. In the early days I leave my gates opened most of the time. My main door is also left wide open, just like in the kampungs. Subang Jaya (and that includes USJ too) then was almost crime free. But times have changed. Subang Jaya is not safe anymore. We have to accept the reality that the police cannot protect us 24/7.

In my area, it's not g'n'g-ed yet. Though I'm not totally in favour but if you ask me to make a stand I will willingly support it, if it's ever implemented in my area. This gng thingy might not be perfect, but the least that any responsible resident could do is to voice their suggestions in a cool and calm manner to fine-tune and improve to make it more tolerable and acceptable for everybody.

FYI, I'm just an ordinary resident and am not associated with any nw or ra or whatever committees. But I do respect their voluntary hardwork in making Subang Jaya a better place to live in for everybody.

Nobody likes to live in a 'caged' environment as you've so defined. But what to do. Nobody is as brave and fearless as you and your family. Kena robbed and burglarised so many times yet tak takut mati. Like you, I too like to drive my foreign friends around to admire all the beautiful homes in the neighbourhood. Though my freedom to move around has been somewhat curtailed, I understand and is willing to sacrifice a little for the good of everybody.

As a respected and well known writer I would have expected you to be more understanding and more polite in putting across your views here. But to barge in here and behave like a lunatic (you admitted to be one), no sane person would like to engage with you on the issues you've brought up here. When a person goes gila, they become irrational you see. It is also shocking that as an experienced property writer you are unaware of the hot gng issues discussed in usj.com.my until a few days ago. Rip van Winkel would have bangun-ed a long time ago from his 40 winks.

What you've highlighted are also not something new. Sudah surat kabar lama lah. They are aware of all the issues you've pointed out. But I feel saddened that you decided to take a confrontational uncompromising stand. Yes, I'm sure you've become very famous here for all the wrong reasons.

And lastly, please be careful with your words. You've thrown wild unsubstantiated allegations at many people in your postings here.

You also appear unfamiliar on the terms used in a forum. We as members in a public forum post comments in the various threads. We do not call ourselves bloggers. If you wish to blog you can create a free blogsite at blogger.com.

SCCheah

12-01-2010, 06:20 PM

Thanks BTC.

It has been an interesting past few days. Indeed I must thank this website for allowing me to express my views although I may have given the impression of being overly aggressive. I've said all I've to say.

That's my style. When I am hot on an issue I speak my mind. Perhaps it didn't get down very well with some of you.

As I said before nobody is brave here. Everyone has some measure of fear but to recap we should not be so fearful that we lock, cage and utterly inconvenience ourselves and others. That's not the solution.

Indeed, it is a very sad and a sorry sight to see all the GnGs. It is worse than being frightened by robbers as it amounts to mental torture. That's why I can understand why some people can go berserk.

Of course you cannot feel what I feel because you are not me. My daughter and wife are infuriated, not just me only. So are my friends.

I do not wish to reveal names here as it is inapproppriate, but many people (some very influential) are also very unhappy with the GnGs.

The few names I mentioned (perhaps that guy from USJ11/3) had insulted even people who wrote under Anonymous and yes, I found out some bloggers (or what you call them) are also so immatured and funny that it does not warrant my time arguing with them.

I have said all I have said as it would amount to a merry go-round. Yes, I am dead against any fortifying of my lovely township..all the reasons I have given. I have given my friendly warnings (or rather cautions - to tone down things) of what could befall us. I may be wrong but let us see whether my predictions will come true.

I admit my tone is aggressive and sounds like lecturing but that's my way of putting forth my views. So are the sarcastic etc views of others.

If you care to read all my comments carefully, I have been as clear, concise and frank in my views and do not deserve any implications as to my character.

SCCheah

umadavid

12-01-2010, 06:32 PM

Helloooo Mr Cheah,

When did you join NST? No wonder I haven't seen your famous byline for so long.

I am also against GnG. You have put forth the points very clearly. Just ignore the jokers.

Way to Go Mr Cheah. You are our Hero!
Kwchang, you have removed this id but let me say this. Would you not say that it is strange that this nick whom SCCheah claims is his young daughter, is staying in USJ11 (as was stated in location) while his is stated as USJ4 but they both have the same IP. She does not know her dad joined NST? Some more call people jokers. The above post was meant to mislead.

birdy

12-01-2010, 06:35 PM

Kwchang, you have removed this id but let me say this. Would you not say that it is strange that this nick whom SCCheah claims is his young daughter, is staying in USJ11 (as was stated in location) while his is stated as USJ4 but they both have the same IP. She does not know her dad joined NST? Some more call people jokers. The above post was meant to mislead.
Correct! Correct! Correct! Wow.. Umadavid, you are really sharp. I notice the different location but it doesn't click my mind when reading KWchang's post. :o

SCCheah

12-01-2010, 06:38 PM

Dear DTC,

See what I mean when you use words like "barging, lunatic, Rip Van Winkle etc". You also sorry to say give me the impression of being rude, a bit looney too but I accept you.

That is true I have not noticed all the discussions on your website until now and until I suddenly saw so many GnGs in USJ. In fact many people don't even know. There were a few before but they seem to have multiplied overnight and that gave me grave concern.

You also impressed me to be one who is very sarcastic with words but I accept you too. I would always prefer people who are direct and call a spade a spade than people who seem to remain calm after "torturing" others.

Same with some people in GnG. They caused mental anguish on others but when some poor chaps go berserk, breaks locks etc they behave like angels.

I hope you are not that type.

I am glad that my friends and family do not share your thoughts. They feel I am brave enough to voice my view. Indeed, it may be you who came here for all the wrong reasons.

Thank you.

btc

12-01-2010, 07:25 PM

Sorry Mr. Cheah you are one veteran writer I respect and enjoyed reading your column for many years in The Star.
Just leave it at that. I don't mean no harm. Thanks. :)

SCCheah

12-01-2010, 07:39 PM

I am also sorry BTC. How I wish we can go back to the days when we can walk around. I walk very often to USJ4/9 big field from my USJ4/1.

You may think I am joking, I rather die than get caged up.

Bye.

currymee

12-01-2010, 09:45 PM

Correct! Correct! Correct! Wow.. Umadavid, you are really sharp. I notice the different location but it doesn't click my mind when reading KWchang's post. :o

Same here - I only notice the identical IP address and did not register the location.

SCCheah

12-01-2010, 10:15 PM

I too am surprised by my daughter's creativity - no different from you Currymee and uma. They are full of mischief - inventing this and that- just like pot calling kettle black - many blogs are full of childish renditions and illogical arguments instead of offering matured views and suggestions.

There are people so sensitive that when I mentioned as an example how women can also he raped in a car park suddenly there is an upset person firing at me.

But it is alright for you people to call people names. At least you know who I am. All those nameless people hiding behind false names are like frightened animals hiding behind GnGs.

Yes, it is a good lesson for my daughter - she had wanted to call herself AnakCheah instead of AnakKarim (which incidentally is the name of a good Malay friend) but that would be too obvious. We laughed over it.

I have made some 18 to 19 comments. Chew over it. Spit at it, laugh at it, do what you like. One day you will realise there are wisdom in what I say. To recap main points:

(1) Love thy neighbours- don't subject them to distress because you are selfish you want a GnG and block off roads etc.
(2) This form of GnG is illegal. Tear down the wall (fencing). Have you heard something happening over at Kajang? Please find out.
(3) Over dependence of private security guards (like maids issue) can get everyone into trouble in future.
(4) Current GnG even if allowed permanently will not be sustainable.
(5) Issue if not handled well can backfire on PR Govt.

Look out for this coming Friday's NST Property.

This website has served my purpose. You can yak all you like but cheerio. My thanks to the moderator Chang for being very professional.

toycarsmy

18-01-2010, 02:43 PM

driftingrover

21-01-2010, 12:25 PM

sccheah, if u hv read my earlier posting , u r echoing what i hv posted

pointless fighting over who/what is right or wrong

as for me , i hv say what i need to say.
so far it is still bearable in my area, but i do feel this g n g is getting out of hand

now i m just waiting for an opportunity/incident that involved a police report n i will take the whole bunch to court( RA, Police, MPSJ).

jan tomaswaki

21-01-2010, 04:50 PM

fongkimseng

21-01-2010, 09:42 PM

Safety is a concern for all - whether you are for or against GnG - at the end of the day, what we all want is a SAFE SJ/USJ for all. It is better that the whole community work together as one instead of all the righteous holier than thou position of proponents or the confrontational position taken by those against.

Honestly, I was shocked and surprised by SCCheah's hostile posts to the point of rudeness on other people's sincere volunteering efforts. He should at least be appreciative that there are people who cared and are concerned in his community to try and do something. While he may be against what they are proposing i.e. GnG, he should be more constructive and join the RA instead of threatening to sue them !

The best scenario that I can think of is a constructive meeting or discussion - clearly but SADLY, doing nothing and hoping for the police to tackle crime is a futile hope - perhaps, efforts like RT and NW can be proposed or set-up as alternatives to GnG, well, discussed about it with the committees etc instead of court actions - the only winner in all our community fight is the crooks !!

RolyPoly

21-01-2010, 10:58 PM

Very well said. I hope more residents would think like fongkimseng. Come out, join the RA or RT, hear what they have to say. Offer your suggestions/opinion in a constructive manner. The ultimate objective is to improve security and reduce crime. The benefits are for all of us living in the same neighbourhood. The crooks would be happy to see us fighting one another and delay/cancel the GnG project. Why should we allow that to happen?

sjkaki

22-01-2010, 01:09 AM

Honestly, I was shocked and surprised by SCCheah's hostile posts to the point of rudeness on other people's sincere volunteering efforts. He should at least be appreciative that there are people who cared and are concerned in his community to try and do something. While he may be against what they are proposing i.e. GnG, he should be more constructive and join the RA instead of threatening to sue them !
!!

That stirrer has met his objective. ie create attention for himself so that you go buy the friday copy of NST to read his story. I didnt. Did anyone?

kwchang

22-01-2010, 06:09 PM

That stirrer has met his objective... No name-calling. Please read our Rules

jan tomaswaki

23-01-2010, 08:29 AM

That stirrer has met his objective. ie create attention for himself so that you go buy the friday copy of NST to read his story. I didnt. Did anyone?
Hello fren,he has the right to point out the rules of the game (GnG)and it's the genuine case,and follow the rules of the country.If one day (although i don't stay in Subang)any committee were to force me to pay for the GnG services i'll make sure i'll go to his house every nite at 11.30pm .1am ,3am and bang his door asking why the guards are sleeping until he/she will resign.

SCCheah

25-01-2010, 09:54 AM

Thanks Jan.

Please read this coming Friday's NST Property centre-spread Round Table Discussion on Fenced & Gated Communities (Jan 29).

There are panelists who support and some who do not support it. You can see how matured, prominent and powerful people give their views.

No name calling like "stirrer, another loud mouth, shock and surprise by his rudeness, holier than thou.. etc" or expecting others to show appreciation to the RA. How can one show appreciation when you are experiencing anguish by the actions of the RAs in blocking off roads illegally and turning an open concept neighbourhood into a fortress?

I don't need any attention for myself but merely bold enough to speak up for myself and countless others.

I am not trying to "advertise" for NST. Do read other publications be it The Star, The Sun etc and have a better idea on what you can and cannot do.

I am equally surprised by the manner in which my comments were seen as "rude" or "arrogant" and that some posts were not taken off but given a mere pat on the hand.

SCCheah

25-01-2010, 11:02 AM

fongkimseng said that those against FnG takes a confrontational approach....

Correction.

It looks like the supporters or proponents of the FnG (this is the right term now used by the Selangor state government) to differentiate from the normal GnG have steamed rolled their way by erecting all sorts of barriers, boom gates, guard houses, blocking roads etc all in the name of their own safety without regards to the silent majority or minority whichever you want to see it.

That is even worse than supposedly "confrontational or hostile".

Do you know that those whose lives have been adversely affected by the current mushrooming of FnGs see such acts as very hostile? You have all refused to see or do not want to see the simple fact that townships like USJ started as an open concept.

If you buy into a scheme that is already a GnG there is no issue over it. So you have to pay maintenance fees in such schemes. It is morally wrong (although you may be legally right) to say that the internal roads are public roads and you don't want to pay for the security services and you want the gates and guard house removed.
However, it is totally different when you cage up places like USJ. So please stop calling people "hostile, confrontational etc" when people put forth their strong views.

And yet, when people like me is bold enough to voice out you all call me "confrontational". Where is the fairness in all these? In all my comments I have made suggestions unless you have not read them carefully enough.

If you read the forthcoming Round Table Discussion (we've invited YB Hannah Yeoh but she is unable to attend because she is recuperating from surgery) but has asked to kiv it till February.

Of course we would very much like her views too. She can even write in.

It is better than merely making all sorts of comments under the safety of false names.

chsum

26-01-2010, 07:57 AM

err..SCCheah ah, it seems like u r hell bent to put the last nail to the coffin of the GnG, lets assume u win, all gng ave to takedown fence n road block, only bike patrol by guards, crime make a come back, less n less ppl contribute, the end of gng, resident in dilema, no other option, ppl start moving out to gng area, u can report the house prices go down. happy?
Not to mentioned all the hard walking rain or shine to collect funds, countless meet the resident meeting, newspaper collections all go down in the drain while u r seating comfortably dreaming in ur house for the last few years n happens to wake up in the last few months n see ur path to ur favorite hobby blocked.
Gng is only a temporary measure to reduce crime as mentioned by our adun, it will be abolised once the police is up to strength in our area, no one in gng want to be doing it for life.

my gng sense

nona

26-01-2010, 08:26 AM

I noticed today that the walk through gate towards USJ4 school and seri selangor from USJ4 Tudor had been locked up. Why is that??

Earlier even though it had been gated they had left it open. But since last few days it's locked throughout. This is what we want to avoid and this is why some are 'hell bent' against GnG.

If any of the RA members from USJ4 Tudor is here in the forum. Please take note and do not block access for the scholl children. Or they will be forced to use the walkway at the main road. Which can be highly dangerous.

SCCheah

26-01-2010, 09:08 AM

Nona- glad that you now noticed that the gates are locked. It was locked for the past few weeks already and I have taken photos of it.
You got a good point there Nona- the school kids will have to walk a big round. Very dangerous for kids. Many more such examples.
I have even photos of guards sleeping at their table (eg USj3/4) during the day. There are even more gantries, gates, oil drums everywhere.

As for chsum- I and many, many others didn't ask the RA to do all those hard work (walking in the rain, going to the authorities etc) to set up the FnG.

So if all fencing and road blocks come down and crime rates increase are you blaming opponents of FnG like me? Crimes can happen anywhere.

The FnGs are illegal in the first place, not sustainable in the long term and are fraught with loopholes. So why do it for a false sense of security? Sure some people may claim that crime rates are down but that's not the long term solution. Crime has to be fought on a macro level- that's why I ask you all to read this coming Friday's NST Property- views for and against FnG - views from matured and prominent people. Alas, some of you say I am bringing attention to myself.

We keep on going a merry go-round.

Yesterday, I drove to the bungalow area in USJ5 (next to MPSJ) where they have a nice guard house with gantry etc. I drove past without being stopped. Good. But see what I mean. If I am a bad hat, I can also just drive through.

If you stop and check people, also no point because bad hats can still bluff their way and their number plate can be false.

You can have guard patrols but why fenced up, block roads everywhere cutting off neighbourhoods? Even if I remain quiet, there will come a time when residents in the FnG will blow up.

This is different from residential developments that were GnG from Day 1. Everyone bought into it because they know it's a GnG.

BTW, all our comments -yours and mine using the word GnG is actually wrong. We should be referring to the current retrofitted form of security (like blocking roads, fencing up etc) as fenced and guarded (official term by the Selangor state government recently).

The gated and guarded (GnG) refers to the properly gated and guarded developments like Tropicana (also illegal as it is not a true GnG as it runs through public roads).

Some people feel that having a FnG will cause prices to rise as people feel safer but there are others who may feel otherwise. But why the sarcastic tone about me reporting drop in prices? Strange isn't it?

Yes, our hard working ADUN Hannah has said it is only temporary. I hope so because what I fear (as mentioned in earlier comments) and I didn't want to put it too clearly (in case I step onto the toes of certain groups), is that it may be too late as we may end up like the maids' issue.

I hope you can read between the lines.

SCCheah

26-01-2010, 10:58 AM

The Round Table Discussion article is coming out next Friday and not this Friday. Got mixed up.

My apology.

peterkkchong

26-01-2010, 11:47 AM

klutch

26-01-2010, 03:52 PM

Drove through USJ16 last Sat, produce my ID and the guard conveniencely retain my card and give me a visitor pass. Still do not understand, does this foreign guard has the right to retain my ID? i have to explain to the guard that they cannot retain my card but they can write down the particulars and surrender the card back to me after much persuasion.

A close friend of mine lives in USJ16 too & I don't give my ID/ Driving License. They don't have the right to handle/ keep your ID; just tell them to take down your details, i.e. License Plate, Address of visit & Name of owner & let you pass!!

chsum

26-01-2010, 09:20 PM

I and many, many others didn't ask the RA to do all those hard work

err...SCCheah ah, u keep saying there r many of u, but the fact is there r more ppl pro fng, I dare to state this fact because in monetary sense, to hire guards to secure 200-300houses area 24hrs, u need at least 85% paying resident (At RM50/hse) to sustain or else u can forget it. So u don't ave to worry about Fng not complying the 85% rule as they will die a natural death b4 u can report them to mpsj.

So if all fencing and road blocks come down and crime rates increase are you blaming opponents of FnG like me?

No, I won't blame u, just tell me u can live with the fact when a robbery or snatch thief went wrong n someone die in the area once was fng.

Crime has to be fought on a macro level

U just said it, so can u pls write in the newspaper n highlight our plight to our gov for more police n better enforcement pronto rather than shooting down the ppl who r hanging on to their dear life.

I hope you can read between the lines.

sorry, inmature n non prominent people like me do not know how to read between the lines.

sjkaki

26-01-2010, 10:34 PM

No name-calling. Please read our Rules

My apologies Kwchang, You can tell from the few post I do make, I am moderate in my views but in this instance, I lost my composure.

Jan,
Although I lived and worked in Penang for 1 year and having the house I lived in broken into while I was away at work, I would not say I am qualified to make any informed assessment of the security situation in Penang.

klutch
QUOTE:just tell them to take down your details, i.e. License Plate, Address of visit & Name of owner & let you pass!!

The community is all the more richer with your positive attitude.
Like you, when I visit my parents in USJ 3, I will roll down the window, greet the guards and tell them where I am visiting. They do their job to record my car reg number and i am on my way. When my parents and friends visit me, they show the same respect and understanding.

To end my comment on this matter, I just want to say that we live in a community which is dynamic and ever changing.
What we have here is like a basketball court. While it is built for basketball, it should not remain a basketball court when 8 out of 10 kids have switched to playing badminton. Yes we can shout down the majority insisting that it is a basketball court and it is illegal to play badminton until the council changes the purpose and function of that piece of concrete on the ground.

Meanwhile, the 9 kids are to play on the streets? That is also illegal and hazardous. So all the kids stay home. The lone kid have the court all to himself and soon after, the court is idle. Everybody happy? Of course not, the community goes to the council and request for changes to be made. Being responsive and caring, the council allows the kids to play badminton while they make plans to change the status of the piece of concrete. For all we know, the council will refuse to make changes and keep that empty court. But that is another matter to be dealt with.

Of course, some of us can choose to drive in the opposite direction and demand to know why everyone else is driving the wrong way.

TQ

fongkimseng

26-01-2010, 10:46 PM

SCCheah

27-01-2010, 12:04 AM

You love to quote people and your entertaining sarcasm never fails to amaze me chsum.

A good example is this:

You said: No, I won't blame u, just tell me u can live with the fact when a robbery or snatch thief went wrong n someone die in the area once was fng.

Don't you realise how illogical your remarks are? With or without FnG, a crime can happen anywhere and anytime. Are you saying that only with FnG there will be few or no crime?

If I were to split hair like you, I can also say that "Can you live with the fact that when a child is knocked down by a car because the child has to walk in the open or make a detour because the public road in his/her area is blocked off...or Can you live with the fact that a man dies in his house because the ambulance could not find the house with all the obstacles.

As for your comment about me shooting down at people and your advice to write in the papers...well we are doing that- we just had a Round Table Discussion on FnG but some of you say you do not want to read.

Pro FnG in the majority? Show me proof.

As mentioned in my previous comments, some RAs have gone over-board and there are lots of complaints of RAs behaving very arrogantly - as if they own the township.

Even if you have 100 per cent support it is still illegal to hijack public roads. Still don't get it?

Many people have been misled by the current frenzy to go FnG while others merely jump onto the bandwagon out of fear. Others support but are actually fence sitters who won't pay. There are also I believe, self-interest groups.

As I said, let's wait and see how sustainable this kind of FnG will last.

Of course there are those who are also hell bent on FnG without regards to the feelings of others.

As for the forummer who tries to give the example of a basketball court- you can't compare a court with a township nor basketball players with those who lives in a neighbourhood for years. I know what you are driving at, but that is a poor example. Why?

Let's say the council, government and what not amend the law and allow FnG everywhere to satisfy the so-called majority, residents then continue to fence and close up roads and change the road system - what happens? I bet after awhile some of you including the original supporters of FnG will tear them down for the simple reason the particular neighbourhood was not designed or planned that way and you get fed up with all the inconveniences etc.

I also wish to stop responding as many of you still do not see the woods from the trees and making very illogical comments.

kwchang

27-01-2010, 12:51 AM

Let me thank everyone for participating in a lively discussion in a very civil manner. Those of you who lost your cool either got your post removed or given a bunch of bananas ;) :D

I hope everyone has a good lawyer and legal counsel at hand. Good luck to all I am very disappointed that fongkimseng hinted at a threat of legal action. This is not an arguement thread but a discussion. Future threats will invite bananas, that is in our rule book. Do not get heated up at the spur of the moment ... do go for a walk and come back after awhile and continue if you wish ... cooling off is the best thing to do

Of course, we all agree to disagree. This is what a Forum is about. I am sure the pro-GnG residents acknowledge the opinions of those against it. In fact, I have even heard members of a GnG committee say that they dislike the fencing and gates. Therefore do not feel threatened ... I am quite sure common sense will prevail and to some people, this is the the option they have taken to try to reduce the risks of crime happening in their neighbourhood.

I am not sure if anyone noticed. This GnG (or FnG) thing had one very good outcome. It brought neighbours together. Whenever I see a gathering of people to discuss the GnG, I find total strangers becoming friends. This positive development is to be highly praised. I was previously involved with a neighbourhood watch initiative and we patrolled the streets at midnight and even at 2am. There was also a lot of camaraderie there. Hence, whatever the effort, it brings people together.

Let us not be enemies because of an idea. My religious friends will tell me that Satan is having a good time bringing chaos to any event. This is one and unless we learn to appreciate the goodness in anything we do, we will all fall into the devil's trap. The first step out of this trap is to agree that we have opposing views and work towards a positive outcome. This is what community living is about. We are human beings with the capacity to work around obstacles. Just remember that the enemy is not your neighbour but the criminals who will eventually benefit from your mistrust and feuds.

I had taken a step back and looked at all of you and I see good neighbours being split by emotions and the criminals waiting on the sidelines waiting to pounce. It is time to wake up my neighbours.

currymee

27-01-2010, 07:35 AM

Having read the responses, I have come to the conclusion that any further discussions and comments in this thread is futile as both sides positions have already hardened solid. This GnG or FnG scenario looks most likely to be resolved in the court of law. I hope everyone has a good lawyer and legal counsel at hand. Good luck to all. :(

I will also not comment anymore on this topic, I will leave it to the lawyers when the time comes.

KW, I think you have misinterpreted fongkimseng as hinting at a threat of legal action by himself, I don't read his reply as threatening legal action but rather that his conclusion from reading the thread that eventually, a court case may happen sometime and somwhere by someone as result of GnG and FnG - we have heard of other forumers saying they are waiting for incidents to happen for them to sue or clash in courts. Hence his statement, "I hope everyone has a good lawyer and legal counsel at hand. Good luck to all. :( " is more of his way of saying - this is the future that I see happening - kind of a WAKE UP STATEMENT for all !

As for what you highlighted about camaraderie and good neighbourliness that was one of the unintentional outcome, yes, I too have experienced that when the volunteers came around explaining etc etc ... and I too have attended some of the RA meetings. As a result, I now know about an additional 20 neighbours from different streets apart from my own immediate ones. I have been a regular reader of this thread as well and I tried to refrain from discussing in earnest for I know there are almost as many opponents as well as proponents, and both sides do get emotional - after all, it is about our SAFETY.

SCCheah

27-01-2010, 07:56 AM

Indeed I agree with currymee that foongkimseng (much as I dislike some of his remarks) that what he meant was misconstrued. I think he meant if someone were to sue, then we can hear what the High Court or Federal Court says. It's the same- unless we meet face to face and put smileys here and there, our tone can be misconstrued as arrogant, rude etc...just like some people thinking this way of me although those who know me well know I am the type who speaks his mind, albeit come up quite strongly. I apologise if I have inadvertently offended anyone.

That's why I invite you all to read the NST Property centrespread forum on Feb 5 (not Jan29). I am not trying to sell the NST paper but hope that it may give you all some bits of fresh opinion from others (for and against FnG).

For example one of the panelists (do not want to disclose the name as yet) commented in the round table discussion that local councils cannot even allow roads to close and override the National Land Code. I am no lawyer and so I will not comment on this but morally as well as legally I feel it is wrong to just think of our own self interests and break laws by barricading roads.

Ultimately it is the failure of the system- police unable to protect us.

I am glad to know that kwchang did night patrols. Although I am coming to 57 (still can climb highest peak on Cheju Island last year) and has a medical problem, I will be happy to do night patrols- breathe fresh night air and chit chat with neighbours.

But police must also join us.

Better than relegating security to foreign guards (no use lah), I don't mind guard patrols (on bikes) but fencing and blocking in USJ etc is a No. No.

Thanks.

birdy

27-01-2010, 09:20 AM

For example one of the panelists (do not want to disclose the name as yet) commented in the round table discussion that local councils cannot even allow roads to close and override the National Land Code. I am no lawyer and so I will not comment on this but morally as well as legally I feel it is wrong to just think of our own self interests and break laws by barricading roads.
I strongly agreed on this... I am not agaist GnG or FnG since it does help the community staying there, if not, at least minimize the crime happenings. Unfortunately, some of the RAs have overdo it...they just barricade the road to minimize the cost of engaging security to guard the entrance. I have no issue for them to place a booth and guard there but they can't simply prevent people from accessing the road. They don't own that place, and anyone should allow to enter. The guards are free to take down the car number plate if they need to.

Places like Tmn Megah, Tmn Bukit Emas and USJ11.... they simply barricade the road for their convenience. I really like the way how USJ3/1 RA have done it. They convert one of the entrance for onwer while the other entrance for guests. Of course, I reckoned that the place is easier to man since they only have 2 entrances only.

fongkimseng

27-01-2010, 09:34 AM

Indeed I agree with currymee that foongkimseng (much as I dislike some of his remarks) that what he meant was misconstrued. I think he meant if someone were to sue, then we can hear what the High Court or Federal Court says. It's the same- unless we meet face to face and put smileys here and there, our tone can be misconstrued as arrogant, rude etc...just like some people thinking this way of me although those who know me well know I am the type who speaks his mind, albeit come up quite strongly. I apologise if I have inadvertently offended anyone.

SCCheah, you are right - "unless we meet face to face and put smileys here and there, our tone can be misconstrued as arrogant, rude etc..." - my apologises as well if I had unfairly labeled you as a result - which is why I note my remarks with a surprise :)

KWChang, I wish to clarify like what Currymee and SCCheah said, I had neither the intention nor wish to threaten to take legal action but based on what I can forsee, a court case will happen sooner rather than later on GnG especially with the authorities being wishy-washy on the subject - "the close one eye" method by them can lead to a lot of future problems !! Maybe, I should reword how I write that statement which you quoted. Thank you for not dishing out a banana :D for misinterpretation.

jan tomaswaki

27-01-2010, 10:55 AM

I think every forummer to look at SS18,behind Shell kiosk where owners pay a secuirty company to ronda but no fencing . That's what Cheah is telling .Suppose MPSJ allow them to fence but on conditions.
0) We hand over the area for you to maintain
1) pay higher cukai pintu :mad:
2) maintain your own road :mad:
3) maintain your own street lightings :mad:
4) rubbish collection will be free(80%) if they pay cukai pintu very year. :mad:
5) engage your grass cutter and landscaping :mad:

Do you agree ? Pls comment all commitees in fng or gng

nona

27-01-2010, 03:25 PM

aye...aye...kwchang...you misunderstood lah what fong said. It din sound like threat to me as well. If it was ...it is a very mild one. Not scared la :cool:

nona

27-01-2010, 04:19 PM

triple aye to Jan!!!

The temporary actions becoming too long. How to get police beef up their force rather than some government departments which are redundant.

How how how

chsum

27-01-2010, 08:31 PM

err...for the first time I must agree with SCCheah

some RAs have gone over-board and there are lots of complaints of RAs behaving very arrogantly - as if they own the township.

I must say there r some bad apples among FnGs, but punishing all by banning it is a bit unfair, why can't we get MPSJ to regulate FnG n set down rules (not by Jan t ere)
1) Only allow roads to be block that leads to that particular community.

2) Guards to allow ambulance, firetruck, police, gov veh through without stopping.

3) Guards to allow all visiting car through by just stating which hse n street there r going(they will ave to jot down thew car no & make once they go by n follow the car if its suspicious)

4) All guards must wear uniform.

5) To open up gates in fences for certain time period when there is a need (particularly school children)

6) ....

Pro FnG in the majority? Show me proof.

Let me ask u one question, do u consider paying resident as pro fng or not?

Many people have been misled by the current frenzy to go FnG while others merely jump onto the bandwagon out of fear. Others support but are actually fence sitters who won't pay. There are also I believe, self-interest groups.

So what u mean is RA misled ppl to part with their hard earn in this middle class, educated community in SJ? fear? Self-interest group? show me proof.

my gng sense or is it fng?

SCCheah

27-01-2010, 11:45 PM

The following is an article from Star today.

This is my point about FnG. .Eventually after a lull, the robbers etc will come back to hit FnGs.

You appear to be very long-winded chsum.I have no wish to entertain you as you are becoming very exasperating.When I asked you to show proof you side-track. Sure there may be certain areas like USJ11 where there could be a majority but what about other areas and there have been complaints that some FnGs were set up even without the required 85 per cent. As I have said many times, even if you have 100 per cent support it is still illegal.

Even middle class and educated society can still be influenced and cowed by fear. I am not saying all RAs but certainly a combination of many factors including rampant crimes, pressure from certain RAs, personal beliefs etc make people act this way.
If you enjoy splitting hairs then may i also give you a simple example. Aren't many Germans during WW2 intelligent, rational and matured people and yet so many of them could support Hitler who murdered over a million Jews.

Now before you jump again and copy my quote and launch another of your counter arguments, I am not saying that those who support FnG are bad, irrational or what. What i am saying is that some of them could be so affected by rising crime rates that they are so fearful that they have to set up FnG even if it is a false sense of security. Others could also support FnG because of influence and pressure.
Ultimately they may not bother about the feelings of the other residents.

My contention is that all illegal barricades must be removed. Fences should also come down. Remove the cage image.

If you are going to dissect every word, I think I don't have the time to continue enlightening you.

Well, i am sure you have the time to read the Star article below.

Wednesday January 27, 2010

A gated but not guarded Taman Wahyu

WHAT is the point of living in a gated and guarded community when you are still in harm’s way?

Residents of Taman Wahyu in Jalan Ipoh, Kuala Lumpur, learnt this the hard way despite the daily private security patrols conducted in their neighbourhood.

For the past five years, residents have been paying for guards to be stationed at the entrance to their housing estate but there have been several robberies and the house owners are not happy.

No activity: Most of the shoplots in Taman Wahyu are closed or the windows are tinted a dark shade.
Even with the presence of the uniformed guards, most of the residents here are living in fear.

They no longer feel safe and contacted StarMetro to relate their traumatic experiences.

One of the residents, a businessman, said he was robbed during the day while returning home with his wife.

The unsuspecting victim said five men trailed him on motorcycles during the ordeal.

Upon reaching his home, the men held parangs at the victim’s throat while the wife, who was in a state of shock, locked herself in the vehicle.

Not right: An unmanned guard post in Taman Wahyu.
The robbers left with a large sum of money, which was the victim’s collection for the day, and rode past the guards who just looked on helplessly.

When questioned by the frustrated victims, the guards simply shrugged and said there was nothing they could have done.

Another resident related that he had seen lorries coming into the neighbourhood, looking for a place to dump their construction waste.

“A neighbour later saw the guards talking jovially to the driver. They did not stop them from entering but seemed friendly with them,” said the resident.

To check out the allegations, StarMetro reporters visited the area recently.

No access: A woman talking to the shopowner through the closed grille.
We drove around the Batu constituency to check on the gated and guarded community and see if the guards were on duty.

True enough, as claimed by the residents, not a single guard was stationed at the entrances to the neighbourhood.

At Taman Wahyu, concrete blocks were placed in the middle of the road to prevent people from entering the area.

However, motorcyclists could easily pass through and enter the area.

Later, two guards who were patrolling the housing estate on their motorcycles spotted us.

Deserted: Residents claim this guard post at the entrance of Taman Wahyu is always empty.
Instead of taking down our number plates or ask questions, they looked at us with a cheeky smile.

We also noted that the shops in the housing estate all have metal grilles, which were always closed.

We later found out that this was a safety measure against robbery.

We saw that customers had to ask for items from outside and were not allowed to enter the shop.

When queried, the grocery shop owner was reluctant to say anything.

A resident confirmed that the sundry shop had its metal grille closed all the time.

Residents pay RM50 monthly for the guard services while the shoplot owners pay RM100 each every month.

Barrier: Concrete blocks placed in the middle of the road in Taman Wahyu to prevent people from coming into the area.
While there, we saw some guards taking a tea break at a nearby coffeeshop after their rounds.

Following further leads, we found that the situation was also similar in Taman Batu Permai and Taman Mastiara in Jalan Ipoh.

We found a cosy security booth in the area but it was unmanned. We went around looking for the guards but to no avail.

Taman Batu Permai, on the other hand, had locked guard posts with no guard on duty.

Residents from the affected housing estates are questioning the need to pay for security services when in fact, there was none.

“What is the point of having the guards when they do not come to our aid when needed,” said a disgruntled victim.

SCCheah

28-01-2010, 12:26 AM

Chsum,

My daughter has a story to tell you.

Father: Son, don't eat so much ice cream.

Son: Why?

Father:It's bad for your teeth.

Son: How come my friends eat ice cream and their teeth are not bad?

Father: Maybe they brush their teeth but still it's not good if you eat too much ice cream.

Son: If it's bad why does the school allow ice cream to be sold in the canteen?

Father: (getting exasperated)Look here, I am your father.Just listen. You must have a balanced diet. I see you eating ice cream day and night.

Son: You mean you have been watching me eat day and night.You no need to sleep ah?

My daughter says you remind her of the boy in the story.

BTW, many of us are closing our comments.How come chsum you are still firing away and inducing people like me to respond to your comments?Still not satisfied ah?

SCCheah

28-01-2010, 07:52 AM

chsum says- So what u mean is RA misled ppl to part with their hard earn in this middle class, educated community in SJ? fear? Self-interest group? show me proof. my gng sense or is it fng?

You asked me to show proof.

Do you read the newspapers or even talk to your neighbours.
The proofs are staring you in the face everyday. One of the major reasons why people set up FnGs is because they are so fearful of robberies etc.I am also fearful..everyone also fearful but you don't go to the extent of blocking roads etc that may even endanger lives.

As for self-interest groups- you know what I am talking about.So stop pretending to dish out questions.

chsum

28-01-2010, 07:54 AM

err..ha..ha... :D , that's not the way to teach a kid not to eat too much icecream, I will show him what will happen when he eats too much n what is a balance diet, why u need a balance diet etc...

Opps off topic..now, where were we, ah..long winded

Wednesday January 27, 2010 A gated but not guarded Taman Wahyu

not fair reporting sccheah, u just take a few badly run fng n says fng is useless, why don't u take some examples of fng which stopped u from coming in n make a report there?

Closing comment? I though u closed it last week.

me firing? I though I was defending, u the one who is firing. :confused:

Bad example of german nazi, fng do not ave the gestapo or ss, if we do, do u think u still be here? :D

my fng sense

SCCheah

28-01-2010, 08:02 AM

chgum says- err..ha..ha... , that's not the way to teach a kid not to eat too much icecream, I will show him what will happen when he eats too much n what is a balance diet, why u need a balance diet etc...

See what i mean- You have nothing else to say.

Enjoy yourself chsum...ha, ha, ha.

Your style is out of fashion in matured blogs.

Uncle Oh

11-02-2010, 10:57 AM

SCCheah

12-02-2010, 01:22 PM

I just spotted this comment way back to No.40 by jey.

He said in response to jan:

"Lets say the committee takes off the G & G. Then, if someone breaks into one of the homes in the neighborhood (since there is no more G & G), robs someone and also murders before easily getting away. Would the victims be able to sue all those who were against the G & G? "

Ha!Ha!Ha!

Mana ada logic lah? (I normally add in my poor BM when I sense something really funny).

Pro-FnG should count themselves lucky that until now nobody has sued all the RA committees everywhere.

Where is the logic when in the very first place townships like USJ was an open concept development whereas all the steamrolling to go FnG are entirely ILLEGAL!!

When FnGs are taken off - you have nobody to blame but yourself for embarking onto something that is illegal and without due regards to all the residents. Assuming that your precious fence, gantries and guard posts are torn down, how are you going to claim compensation? You don't need a lawyer to tell you this. Common sense will tell you that all illegal structures are not claimable.

It is different when someone dies because the ambulance cannot rush the patient on time because of all the obstructions put up in an FnG.

It is also different when there is a dengue epidemic because of aedes mosquitoes breeding in the ubiquitoes oil drums put up as so-called deterrence against crime Ha! Ha!

Please put on your thinking cap.

sjkaki

12-02-2010, 01:30 PM

MR KWCHANG,

I am constantly getting email alerts with idiotic posts. How can I disable email alerts from the site.

TQ & Wishing All here a Happy Chinese New Year.

driftingrover

14-02-2010, 12:51 PM

kwchang

15-02-2010, 12:39 AM

...I am constantly getting email alerts with idiotic posts. How can I disable email alerts from the site..
You must have set "subscription" to some threads on this Forum. Actually there is no need to 'subscribe' to discussion threads ... by subscribing to a thread, you are actually asking the server to send you messages everytime something new is added to the thread.

Please remove the subscription to those threads and the emails will stop

jan tomaswaki

16-02-2010, 02:37 PM

today tv3 1.30pm news came out on g n g .maybe you can watch at 8pm news.

ksj_cool

04-03-2010, 02:19 PM

wow...really hot discussion...

AlanCheng

26-03-2010, 11:41 PM

How come i didn't see any news of the house got broken into in usj11/3* ( usj 11/3 is a g&g area ) over here ?? :rolleyes:

azman0123

27-03-2010, 08:45 AM

How come i didn't see any news of the house got broken into in usj11/3* ( usj 11/3 is a g&g area ) over here ?? :rolleyes:

Extremely bad publicity, that's why.

Was any compensation mentioned when the GnG agreement was signed between the residents and GnG/RA group?

AlanCheng

27-03-2010, 12:00 PM

Extremely bad publicity, that's why.

Was any compensation mentioned when the GnG agreement was signed between the residents and GnG/RA group?
Compensation ...... what compensation. There is not even an agreement. Why should people pay RM60 a month for security services when there is no service agreement and no compensation. I wonder why MPSJ didnt demand the GnG community take a public liability insurance. One of my client who operate a restaurant business has to buy a RM500K public liability insurance when he only want to place 3 tables at the road side after 10pm!! These guy place barriers across the road 24hr a day and MPSJ is closing both eyes and ears :mad:

SCCheah

27-03-2010, 12:20 PM

kwgoh

27-03-2010, 04:20 PM

Easy money mah!

Simply put barriers, throw a few guards, and collect huge sums every months.

Yes,

Where are the:

1. Service agreements between residents, RAs and security firms? Got or not?
2. Who voted in the RAs?
3. Where are the approvals from MPSJ?

Someone wrote to the newspaper and yak about the efforts of the RAs.
Some RAs may do it:
1. With sincerity, very diligent, self-sacrificing with totally no hidden motives but just to safeguard themselves and their neighbours.
To these RA people, I say while I appreciate your civic-mindedness and self-sacrifice, I am sorry that you are doing it the wrong way.
2. Possibly some RAs have a hidden agenda. If that is so, you can be exposed sooner or later.

Hi SCCheah I agreed with you totally.
I am staying in USJ4, they are now doing a survey for USJ 4/8 and 4/9A-9G, I got the survey form in the letter box on last Sunday, I am actually against the FNG or GNG but survey form title was "A survey on acceptance of Day & Night Patrol Within the Property".

The survey form have two contact persons with contact numbers, I don't know they are the RA organizer or what, and hope they are RAs that falls in category 1: With sincerity, very diligent, self-sacrificing with totally no hidden motives but just to safeguard themselves and their neighbours and not repeat what was happened 5 years ago......

I remembered 5 years+ ago there was a security company send us a survey form to "provide night Patrol service" and I ask my neighbours in our row seens nobody is interested. BUT something funny happened after about 1 month later, around 85% of the cars' side mirror (only the side facing the road) in our row was missing IN ONE NIGHT.
later I think 2 or 3 of our neighbours subscribe to it. But our cars in our row were on and off having side mirrors broken/missing or side windows broken. The funny thing was it never happened to the 2 or 3 neighbours' cars who subscribe the service.

I did not subscribe to the service even my old car parking outside was once side mirror missing, once side window broken and once side front lamp broken because if I pay them is just like paying "protection money".

These things happened on and off until one of our neighbour in the row get the police to patrol (police patrol box). The service was die down without our notice (I think 2 years ago)