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View Full Version : Aussie burqini sparks religious storm



Naka
13-08-2009, 08:49 AM
Aussie burqini sparks religious storm in France

http://www.theage.com.au/world/aussie-burqini-sparks-religious-storm-in-france-20090813-eilh.html

firefox
13-08-2009, 09:09 AM
Is best she leaves France and move on to the middle East so that she can practise her religion accordilngly.

bobkee
13-08-2009, 10:42 AM
The French take the other extreme - secular extremism and paranoia about any mainstream religious expressions. There has been cases where school teachers have been disciplined for wearing crucifixes as well.

JoeJaffar
13-08-2009, 10:44 AM
can't practice islam in france eh?

AllUrban
13-08-2009, 10:54 AM
Despite the perceived "openness" I've often thought that French culture was quite restrictive and defensive and nationalistic.

I recall reading an article that said that some French people were worried that not enough women were bathing topless (as is their right) and this was affecting the position of France as a "leader" in feminism...... :confused:

There are similar issues about compromise in French Canada ... the majority of complaints about immigration and immigrants are also made in French Canada by "Quebecers" ...

Weird.

Cheers, m

bugbear
13-08-2009, 12:05 PM
I believe the issue here is one about hygiene. The fact that she was almost fully clothed when in the pool contravene the pool ruling. Please do not turn this issue from a public safety issue into a religious one.

Sentinel
13-08-2009, 12:10 PM
I always believe the proverb, when in Rome do as the Romans do. We must respect the laws and the practices of a country we live in.

The importance of the general population overrides the importance of an individual.

JoeJaffar
13-08-2009, 12:16 PM
I believe the issue here is one about hygiene. The fact that she was almost fully clothed when in the pool contravene the pool ruling. Please do not turn this issue from a public safety issue into a religious one.

tell that to firefox..

coming back, if the material is of the right kind, how different would it be from those scuba suits or anyother single piece swimsuit?

bugbear
13-08-2009, 12:26 PM
tell that to firefox..

coming back, if the material is of the right kind, how different would it be from those scuba suits or any other single piece swimsuit?
I don't think they allow scuba diver into the pool will they? Similarly, they don't even allow those hi tech speedo or jaked or arena body suit worn in the recently completed world championship in Rome. Like I said, this issue has been blown out of proportion by certain people for their own agenda.

Richard Poh
13-08-2009, 12:54 PM
I believe the issue here is one about hygiene. The fact that she was almost fully clothed when in the pool contravene the pool ruling. Please do not turn this issue from a public safety issue into a religious one.
Even in our own country ,I really pity the school muslim girls taking part in sport event . The Sun the Humidity , with due respect to their faith , is just too much to bear.(at least for me)

Comimg to the burgini suit , I think is ok . I dont see anything wrong ? My junior use to put on a lycra suit to swim in the pool during cloudy days to beat the cold. But then again what is the material of the burgini made of ? This could be the key to hygience problem,I think .

AllUrban
13-08-2009, 01:19 PM
I always believe the proverb, when in Rome do as the Romans do. We must respect the laws and the practices of a country we live in.

The importance of the general population overrides the importance of an individual.If that is the case, why would we see foreign people bathing topless on Phuket beach?

Or various other beaches in Thailand?

And why do so many women wear short shorts in Malaysia? Are they appropriate in our "conservative Asian" culture where the importance of the general population overrides the importance of the individual?

m reads that the woman in question was born in France and therefore, she must be educated about France's cherised values of Liberty, Equality & Fraternity....values that place the importance of the individual up there with the importance of the general population.

Cheers, m

AllUrban
13-08-2009, 01:21 PM
I don't think they allow scuba diver into the pool will they? Similarly, they don't even allow those hi tech speedo or jaked or arena body suit worn in the recently completed world championship in Rome. Like I said, this issue has been blown out of proportion by certain people for their own agenda.Ur quite right about the hygiene factor, it was mentioned in the article as well as the response. And yeah, they do state that they dont allow the other suits but one wonders how strong that would be.

Im interested to ask tho ... which "certain people" do you refer to?

I can think of at least 4-5 different groups of "certain people" already ...

But somehow, I expect that you are thinking of one group of "certain people" :p Seems to me that people are already taking sides.

Cheers, m

ps. Im just anti-French ... :D So I just prefer to be on the side that is "against France (or Quebec)"

AllUrban
13-08-2009, 01:23 PM
Comimg to the burgini suit , I think is ok . I dont see anything wrong ? My junior use to put on a lycra suit to swim in the pool during cloudy days to beat the cold. But then again what is the material of the burgini made of ? This could be the key to hygience problem,I think .The same material as any other swimming suit - synthetic fibres like nylon and lycra.

This isnt someone wearing a t-shirt and shorts to cover up.

Cheers, m

bugbear
13-08-2009, 01:32 PM
Ur quite right about the hygiene factor, it was mentioned in the article as well as the response. And yeah, they do state that they dont allow the other suits but one wonders how strong that would be.

Im interested to ask tho ... which "certain people" do you refer to?

I can think of at least 4-5 different groups of "certain people" already ...

But somehow, I expect that you are thinking of one group of "certain people" :p Seems to me that people are already taking sides.

Cheers, m

ps. Im just anti-French ... :D So I just prefer to be on the side that is "against France (or Quebec)"
Then I am sure you already know who i was referring to.

bslee
13-08-2009, 01:39 PM
Whatever it is, I'm quite sad about local uni or college students on their dressing. Yesterday afternoon, I was driving past that Sunway back road back to USJ, where Monash is, there were students on the way to class.
ONE pretty female student with really short pants, leggy too, and slippers. I thought it was just to revealing in public almost skimpy dressing. Yes, its likely a free world but I think it wasn't appropriate dressing for class. I'm sure this may be common sight (SS15?) at other local educational institutions. Lucky me no daughters. Tell me you parents, do you agree (or don't bother at all) letting your daughters dress like this to class? Me honestly don't mind if they'd like to show their beauty at other functions but NOT at education centers. My 2 sen.

Firebird
13-08-2009, 01:46 PM
It all depends. If I were to have any daughters and they happened to be beautiful and responsible adults, why not? What's the point of hiding all that beauty under layers and layers of clothes? Give them a good education, that's a must. If they want to flaunt their beauty (in a responsible way), go ahead. :D

AllUrban
13-08-2009, 02:35 PM
Then I am sure you already know who i was referring to.Sorry, but I dont. Im unable to read between the lines as they say....

er. perhaps we can say it directly....

When I said "certain people" I was referring to:

*Feminists
*French muslims and other muslims
*The media
*The swimming pool maintenance industry
*People who dont like the French (myself, Bobkee?)

et tu?

Cheers, m

bobkee
13-08-2009, 02:37 PM
French, Schmench :D

umadavid
13-08-2009, 03:15 PM
I would not want my daughters to flaunt their beauty! Outward beauty is a gift from God , inner beauty is not God given. Both must not be flaunted :rolleyes:

firefox
13-08-2009, 03:30 PM
This news has not reached our shores yet i wonder how some ppl are going to react..think of it now it is not our buisness if i might say.

Richard Poh
13-08-2009, 03:42 PM
The same material as any other swimming suit - synthetic fibres like nylon and lycra.

This isnt someone wearing a t-shirt and shorts to cover up.

Cheers, m
In that case it should be a case of Islamicphobic on the part of the French.
Orang peranci nak cari hal sahaja. !

kkearthling
13-08-2009, 04:21 PM
If the rule at the pool accepts people to wear as little as possible, it should also allow people to cover up from head to toe.

Some ladies are comfortable being watched, some ladies are not. If a lady want to swim & she wants to be swimming comfortably, gentleman please leave her alone.

Hygiene issue is just a quick convenient excuse. Burqini is a newly commercialized swim suit. It is made of the same material as any other swimming attire. If ‘Burqini’ is not yet in the list of approved attire, the list is due for an update. You don’t freeze the rules.

Who will pollute & dirty the pool more, in terms of dead skin cells, hair, waste from perspiration, urine & whatnot, industrial chemical, etc:
(a) A fella who just finished gym workout & headed straight to the pool without shower? I have seen this happened many times.
(b) A swimmer who applied sun screen lotion (contains industrial chemical) from head to toe, soak in the pool, and reapply again & again?
(c) A cute little child who has runny nose (and the parent couldn’t care less), and does not know yet it is not ok to pee in the pool?
(d) A Burqini-clad swimmer?
...and a, b, c probably do not wear swimming caps. a & b, if they are at the pool to look good, the cap is not a choice.

The only culprit which compromise upkeep of hygiene at a pool is the maintenance of the pool itself, eg it’s filtering system, sanitize/disinfect system etc. Once I asked a lifeguard at the place I stayed, how often is the water in the pool changed, he said, “Never.” “They just ensure the filtering system etc is working. ” The lifeguard added, “In my country (Philippines), the water is usually changed every 3 months.” Water in this part of the world is expensive. My water bill which averaged RM15 per month back in KL, with the same average usage or even lesser will come up to about AED200 per month (about RM191). No wonder they never changed.

burntan
13-08-2009, 04:48 PM
lets put it simple, forcing a muslim lady to wear bikini is as ugly as forcing non-muslim to wear burqini in swim pool!

Hygiene issue is just an excuse! Crazy Frence.

DennisWng
13-08-2009, 05:07 PM
Forcing a woman to wear a bikini when she doesn't want to show off her excess fat isn't right! Just as in forcing a guy to show off his beer belly isn't right if he doesn't want to do it! :p

(I'm only looking at the lighter side of the issue.)

bobkee
13-08-2009, 05:17 PM
In that case it should be a case of Islamicphobic on the part of the French.
Orang peranci nak cari hal sahaja. !Its not just Islamophobia. Some representatives of the French authorities get nervous by any overt display of religiosity. There's been cases where teachers and students have been castigated for wearing crucifixes, minority faiths classified as cults, et al in France.

Of course there's the argument that "groups encounter problems mostly when they misunderstand or ignore the complex technicalities of French law" (re: Stéphane Lauzet, French Evangelical Alliance) but the anecdotal evidence suggests the lack of neutrality by French authorities when it comes to dealing with religious groups.

Personally, with my tongue firmly implanted in my cheek, I think its just because they're French :D

bugbear
14-08-2009, 09:20 AM
Frankly, I don't understand what the huff about this issue is all about. It is just the rule of their pool over there. If you wanna swim there you gotta follow the rule. Whether the rule is bias or not depend on who is seeing it and from which angle. If the Muslims have a problem with it then they should take it to the French authority.

I am sure public swimming pool in Saudi Arabia (if they do have one) do not cater for both sexes don't they? How come we do not see this kind of protest here? That is because we respect their rule. And may I add a latin jingo vice versa here?

burntan
14-08-2009, 03:23 PM
Frankly, I don't understand what the huff about this issue is all about. It is just the rule of their pool over there. If you wanna swim there you gotta follow the rule. Whether the rule is bias or not depend on who is seeing it and from which angle. If the Muslims have a problem with it then they should take it to the French authority.

I am sure public swimming pool in Saudi Arabia (if they do have one) do not cater for both sexes don't they? How come we do not see this kind of protest here? That is because we respect their rule. And may I add a latin jingo vice versa here?

What if there is a pool in Malaysia having a rule stated that no muslim allow, can ah? You may have your own rule for your own private club, but a public swim pool can't have a discrimination rule like that.

bugbear
14-08-2009, 04:12 PM
What if there is a pool in Malaysia having a rule stated that no muslim allow, can ah? You may have your own rule for your own private club, but a public swim pool can't have a discrimination rule like that.
Like I said in my post, this is the rule in France public pool. Likewise it is the same in Saudi too. They do not allow both sexes into the same pool. Isn't that discriminatory?

burntan
14-08-2009, 04:15 PM
Like I said in my post, this is the rule in France public pool. Likewise it is the same in Saudi too. They do not allow both sexes into the same pool. Isn't that discriminatory?

Yes it is disciminatory! Some countries do that, doesn't automatically make it all rights and not discriminatory.

bugbear
14-08-2009, 04:42 PM
What I find hard to swallow is that most of us find it easy to just bash the french but have no gut when it comes to the Saudis. It is as though, bashing the Saudis is politically not correct while doing the same against the french is the in thing. I suppose, we need to be fair to both set of governments here.

Their respective government set the rule for each country which is correct in their eye and everyone residing in that country need to obey the rule. The rule is the rule. There is no two ways about it unless you are an anarchist.

Whether the rules are discriminatory or not it is best we leave it to the french to sort it out. After all I believe our UMNO members might bristle if Monsieur Sarkozy somehow would suggest that our NEP is equally discriminatory. You get my drift?

Jennylim
14-08-2009, 10:34 PM
And why do so many women wear short shorts in Malaysia? Are they appropriate in our "conservative Asian" culture where the importance of the general population overrides the importance of the individual?

Cheers, m

Wearing shorts is part of our culture, may not be yours.
Shorts are very convenient, it is easy to make too. I started wearing shorts since young days. My family members used to wear shorts and T-shirt while working in the farm, not so "leceh", wouldn't get hook on the small branch; also, we sweat a lot when working and can be very uncomfortable if wearing long pants and long sleeve shirts. That's what I worn when I started contributing to my country's economy from 8 years old. Today, I still like to wear shorts to do housework or jogging. I think it is very important for people like you to ask Why, so that you can get to understand some of the reasons behind.

Once I read on the paper, someone was telling government not to reduce quit rent for the Chinese medium schools, he said Chinese are so rich that they don't know what to do with the money that they gave millions to Chinese medium schools. If he had not wrote the article, I wouldn't have know there are Malaysian who doesn't understand the situation in Chinese medium schools.

In a multi-cultural society, it is good to find out when you don't understand. On the other hand we must accept and respect every individual/race is different in many ways.

Serendipity
15-08-2009, 01:01 PM
Who has the right to judge others? If a lady has beauty, why should she hide this asset from others? Besides Malaysia is a hot country. I know as I lived there before I migrated to Perth.

lady-o-leisure
16-08-2009, 04:08 AM
It's a poor excuse to blame hygiene onto the burqini or the like, considering those clothing items are made of high quality fabrics just like Nike's dry-fit and so on. These swimwear pose as much or even less of a hygiene problem as an unshaven french armpit without antiperspirant, so what's their issue? Looks more like discrimination to me. Plus, there is a huge concern over sun-exposure for people who require maximum coverage and more prone to skin cancer.
I would only have an issue with someone wearing regular pants/tracksuit or sarong & normal tshirt in a public pool.

AllUrban
17-08-2009, 11:14 AM
Frankly, I don't understand what the huff about this issue is all about. It is just the rule of their pool over there. If you wanna swim there you gotta follow the rule. Whether the rule is bias or not depend on who is seeing it and from which angle. If the Muslims have a problem with it then they should take it to the French authority.

I am sure public swimming pool in Saudi Arabia (if they do have one) do not cater for both sexes don't they? How come we do not see this kind of protest here? That is because we respect their rule. And may I add a latin jingo vice versa here?According to the news, the lady did swim in the burqini one time but when she came back the next month she was not allowed to swim.

And she did take it to the authority...for which many people accused her of blowing things out of proportion.

As for public swimming pools in Saudi being single sex - single sex pools or swimming is common in many places in the world - probably a reason why there is less outcry.

But I dont mind whacking Saudi Arabian public culture for going to the other extreme end.

Cheers, m

AllUrban
17-08-2009, 11:20 AM
Wearing shorts is part of our culture, may not be yours.
Shorts are very convenient, it is easy to make too. I started wearing shorts since young days. My family members used to wear shorts and T-shirt while working in the farm, not so "leceh", wouldn't get hook on the small branch; also, we sweat a lot when working and can be very uncomfortable if wearing long pants and long sleeve shirts. That's what I worn when I started contributing to my country's economy from 8 years old. Today, I still like to wear shorts to do housework or jogging. I think it is very important for people like you to ask Why, so that you can get to understand some of the reasons behind.

In a multi-cultural society, it is good to find out when you don't understand. On the other hand we must accept and respect every individual/race is different in many ways.Those are some good reasons for wearing shorts...and I understand all the reasons for people to wear shorts and tshirts and flip flops in Malaysia. I also try to understand why men in a office environment are expected to wear long sleeve shirts and ties in 34 degree heat :rolleyes:

There is a huge difference between shorts and short shorts tho. And that is my point -- hot (weather) or not, I dont see short shorts as fitting in with a "conservative Asian culture"

Cheers, m

robertec
17-08-2009, 11:58 AM
I just read somewhere that British Swimming Pools are asking swimmers to cover up during specific swimming sessions.

Do a search on UK Pool Dress Code and you should find the article.

tupai
17-08-2009, 12:52 PM
I have a bath tub in my house...all ladies, french included, wanting to have a soak are more than welcome to use it...BUT the only 2 simple house rules:
1. that u must be in a suit, birthday suit! Other swimming/bathing or whatever suits are banned by the ' order of management' :D
2. U need to be scrubbed down by the official male scrubber (me lah :p

There you go, pretty ladies of all religions. Welkum! Welcome! Lai-Lai! Selamat datang! vanakam! :D Those not wanting to accept my rulesz, stay away lah, si vou ples.

By the way, there is also a law forbidding any man (except the male body scrubber) to be near my bath! Heck! better not within 100m! :p

Yang Bogel latotupai :p