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QuietStorm
23-06-2009, 11:40 PM
As reported in Malaysian Insider. Go here for full report plus reader comments:

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/index.php/malaysia/30283-teaching-of-maths-and-science-in-english-a-flop

I've a question. What if the gomen decides to revert back to BM, will the current batch of students who have been studying Maths & Science in English all this while, be asked to follow suit? Or will they continue to study the said subjects in English? Thought I read somewhere that the latter is true. Can anyone confirm this? Thanks. :)

LMei
24-06-2009, 09:09 AM
Only 6 years and they call it a flop and no improvement? Obviously. If a child starts in Std 1, 6 years would mean he's only Std 6. At this age it is just learning the subject. The language used is no difference here so there is no improvement. It is only when that child starts to attend college and university then you'll see the difference as many struggle with the concepts that they're not familiar with in English if they had study in BM.

Even if the people who wants to protect the BM language should seriously consider preserving it. This is a very good article (http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Tuesday/Frontpage/20090623185341/Article/index_html) on what is happening to our English and BM.

bobkee
24-06-2009, 10:12 AM
What is the benchmark for success and/or failure? Improved grades in Math and Science? Improved command of the English language?

I recently had a look at the SPM English language syllabus as well as the coursework and found it to be actually more comprehensive and higher in terms of quality than the SPM English coursework I had to do when I was in school (circa '87 - '91). Considering that it is the 1119 syllabus that they're doing nowadays compared to the 1322 syllabus that I did in my youth, I am not surprised.

Nonetheless, from my own engagement with young people today, their standard of spoken as well as written English isn't necessarily better than those from my generation. In fact, some of them are positively worse. So if it isn't the syllabus, then what's the problem? Pedagogy? Systemic structures? Political interference?

My eldest girl will be joining this very system soon and as a parent I am justifiably worried. So while I have registered her in the public school system, I am still keeping a "wait and see" attitude and making the necessary back up plans should the politicians decide to muck up the system again for political expediency.

ginaphan
24-06-2009, 11:29 AM
I added my comment at Malaysian Insider - repeating it here:
***********************************************

The emphasis should not be on 'teaching of ...'. but 'learning of .....'

That also means you need to refer to the students more than the teachers who already have their initial bias.

Besides, 6 years is too short. The first batch that started from Day 1 are only in Form 1 right now. You need to check when they are in Form 5 where they will require more than text books. At higher secondary, they will also need references (printed and online). And face it - there are more reference text in the English language than in BM.

Personal experience from 2 of my own children who moved from Chinese to English medium for Science and Mathematics - they are both happier and their scores in both subjects have improved. They appreciate the subjects more because they understand it more. Not just memorising.

ginaphan
24-06-2009, 11:31 AM
Besides, if teaching the 2 topics in English did not make much difference, it also means the reverse is true!

gary yap
24-06-2009, 11:48 AM
Everything is being politicise. Personally, I think the reversion to BM is to please the king-makers in the rural areas. Now the ruling government beind denied 2/3 they have to really sit down and re-strategise their next move and the best bet is thru education. To please the Dong Jiao Zong and the Malay NGOs, they'll have to 'debate' on this subject. IMHO, they'll still going to stick to English BUT they'll lower the passing mark to 40 as probation, then they'll increase as they go depending on the students ability.

Sentinel
24-06-2009, 12:24 PM
Meanwhile, back at the Undersea World at Langkawi, my 6-year old niece from Singapore asked the attendant... "is that a Stingray, uncle?".

"No, itu Ikan Pari"....

I pray for Malaysia.......

AllUrban
24-06-2009, 01:03 PM
I grew up with parents from two different parts of the world.

I had a mother tongue (urdu) and the english language.

I ended up speaking twice as much...naming things and saying things in both languages...and picked up both very naturally.

My mum still relates the story of how I referred to an egg as "anda-egg" for a few years. How I would say "teekh-ok" when asked how I was and how I and my sister impressed people by flipping back and forth between both languages easily and naturally.

My cousins and my mum's friends all wondered how we could speak two languages so comfortably and naturally while they (or their kids) could not. My aunt still wonders how I can speak urdu with a near-perfect Punjabi accent.

Now I speak or can understand 6 languages (including the language) of Malaysia...and wifey speaks 5 languages.

I only hope that we can repeat what my parents taught me and raise kids who are comfortable in many cultures and with people from many parts of the world.

Hence, the only thing I can say here is this: do not rely on the government for answers or solutions to your child's education. Do not rely on the "educationists" either. They will all politicize things and delay things and interfere.

Speaking as a teacher, I say that you will always be your child's first and best teacher. Teach them what you value and make it possible for them to achieve it ... because the "education system" isnt going to make it happen for you.

Cheers, m

gary yap
24-06-2009, 01:35 PM
Meanwhile, back at the Undersea World at Langkawi, my 6-year old niece from Singapore asked the attendant... "is that a Stingray, uncle?".

"No, itu Ikan Pari"....

I pray for Malaysia.......

:D The only time I say 'ikan pari' is at the ikan bakar stall.

QuietStorm
24-06-2009, 02:31 PM
Interesting comments. Thanks folks. Personally I think we should stick to English. In fact, bring back the English medium schools! :D

So, how? Are the current batch of students in Kebangsaan Schools who are being taught Maths & Science in English required to do it in BM, assuming the gomen reverts back to BM? Anyone knows?

Shaneburger
24-06-2009, 04:08 PM
...bring back the English medium schools! :D


Second that :D

umadavid
08-07-2009, 02:50 PM
It has been confirmed, they are reverting to teaching Math and Science in BM

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2009/7/8/nation/20090708144354&sec=nation

bslee
08-07-2009, 02:54 PM
It has been confirmed, they are reverting to teaching Math and Science in BM
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2009/7/8/nation/20090708144354&sec=nation

Ok..let it be lah.. There's next to nothing Joe Public can do to reverse cabinet policies. As to WE ALL who value the English Language, TEACH YOUR KIDS and offspring best with ENGLISH LANGUAGE. Those who lag behind...let them be...good luck to them!

Shaneburger
08-07-2009, 02:58 PM
It has been confirmed, they are reverting to teaching Math and Science in BM

then it's confirmed Malaysia biggest export in the future will be maids and construction workers :D

AllUrban
08-07-2009, 03:03 PM
This made me laugh, then cry:

From: DPM to make announcement on the use of English to teach Mathematics and Science after Cabinet gives its okay - http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2009/7/8/nation/4278070&sec=nation


The Cabinet will decide today on the use of English to teach Mathematics and Science, said Deputy Prime Minister Tan Sri Muhyiddin Yassin.

He said he would table a paper on the matter to the Cabinet, which would then decide on it....He [Muhyiddin] said all views would be submitted to the Cabinet, adding that it would not decide hastily and would give importance to the needs of students and the country’s educational system.Paper tabled today. Decision made today. But we can all take comfort because the Cabinet will not decide hastily......

Figure that one out :p

Cheers, m

kpc
08-07-2009, 03:07 PM
In the future, all Malaysians will be stupid.

Blue Jasmine
08-07-2009, 03:27 PM
In the future, all Malaysians will be stupid.


no big deal....we already are...is there anyone that like to say they are CLEVER/ SMART... PLS STAND UP AND VOICE UP....

Blue Jasmine
08-07-2009, 03:30 PM
Meanwhile, back at the Undersea World at Langkawi, my 6-year old niece from Singapore asked the attendant... "is that a Stingray, uncle?".

"No, itu Ikan Pari"....

I pray for Malaysia.......


no need to pray for these.....pray for more important issues for example the ethnic war in china happening right now...

bobkee
08-07-2009, 03:34 PM
then it's confirmed Malaysia biggest export in the future will be maids and construction workers :DIs that why those of us who were taught exclusively in BM from 1981 - 2003 are currently NOT working as maids and construction workers?

Raikonen
08-07-2009, 03:38 PM
WTH...a big mistake scrapping it so early....what is flawed is the implementation, not the policy itself...My my....ten steps backwards :rolleyes:

How come Spore can have its education in English and we cant? They are multi racial too....

Blue Jasmine
08-07-2009, 03:41 PM
WTH...a big mistake scrapping it so early....what is flawed is the implementation, not the policy itself...My my....ten steps backwards :rolleyes:

How come Spore can have its education in English and we cant? They are multi racial too....


because UMNO is in charge ...thats why

bobkee
08-07-2009, 03:42 PM
Does changing the medium of instruction actually do anything to improve the overall system? The system itself is heavily flawed, regardless of the language used. What is needed is a thorough review and overhaul. Unfortunately, I don't see anybody on both sides of the political divide having the necessary guts to make such difficult and possibly unpopular decisions.

In the meantime, I have a 6 year old getting ready to start school next year. This gives me a 6 month window to mull on the options and the possibilities. The current options available don't look good.

Blue Jasmine
08-07-2009, 03:57 PM
Does changing the medium of instruction actually do anything to improve the overall system? The system itself is heavily flawed, regardless of the language used. What is needed is a thorough review and overhaul. Unfortunately, I don't see anybody on both sides of the political divide having the necessary guts to make such difficult and possibly unpopular decisions.

In the meantime, I have a 6 year old getting ready to start school next year. This gives me a 6 month window to mull on the options and the possibilities. The current options available don't look good.


err do we have any choice...im also in your situation, am worried that if they still havent make a final decision..cant/when they make a Final decision?

keny
08-07-2009, 03:59 PM
so who do we vote in the next GE?

those who against PPSMI;

UMNO
Chinese Educators
Anwar Ibrahim
PAS

these group are the happiest now! In fact in UMNO there are 2 groups, support and oppose. Supporters of PPSMI in UMNO lead by former Tun Mahathir. Expect his fury for the next few days time.

While in PAS, PKR its 100% NO!

does this left us with Hindraf?

jack12
08-07-2009, 04:17 PM
I prefer the teaching be done in the children mother tongue.

What has teaching maths in English done to improving English. Maths is not about language.

AllUrban
08-07-2009, 04:55 PM
Does changing the medium of instruction actually do anything to improve the overall system? The system itself is heavily flawed, regardless of the language used. What is needed is a thorough review and overhaul. Unfortunately, I don't see anybody on both sides of the political divide having the necessary guts to make such difficult and possibly unpopular decisions.

In the meantime, I have a 6 year old getting ready to start school next year. This gives me a 6 month window to mull on the options and the possibilities. The current options available don't look good.The Medium as the Message

Having teachers teaching in a language that they are comfortable with, and having students learning in a language that they are comfortable with...that will of course make learning easier.

It makes since since it is easier to understand a concept in your own language, easier to apply it to your own situations, easier to inquire and communicate with other students and with your teacher.

The Medium as an Excuse

Guess what ... TDM was wrong on this one. PPSMI was an excuse to make cosmetic changes instead of complete changes. Sadly, the politicians and "educationists" who are abusing this issue for their own gain are also wrong. Most sadly, the kids lose when their education becomes someone's political football.

The language issue is just used as a crutch. Change the medium of instruction and the weaknesses are still there.

If the system is rotten to the core then changing the medium of instruction will be like the "rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic" ... no matter what, you still sink.

Great Education

Great education focuses on developing the process of inquiry, not sharing of knowledge. Language is the a medium to help that process.

Bob, help your 6 year old daughter by taking her language skills to a higher level. Ensure that she can understand the concepts she learns completely in multiple languages (including English). I may not be fluent in all of the languages I speak but being multilingual is an important asset for me and it will be for her.

The other thing you can do is this:

*instill in her a love of learning through inquiry and discovery (Tupai wrote a great post on practical ways to do this)

*teach her to ignore the worst of what the "education system" (the politics, the hatred and the top-down control and suppression of individual thinking) will do to her.

Cheers, m

ps. you definitely need an understanding of language to do maths. If not, how do you communicate and discuss your results and your formulae and your equations? That is why people should learn in their mother tongue and then develop skills in multiple languages. And that is what the Ministry is now going to push.

AllUrban
08-07-2009, 05:18 PM
Some data can be found at this link:

http://thestar.com.my/archives/2009/7/8/nation/20090708144354.pdf

Cheers, m

bobkee
08-07-2009, 05:22 PM
Moaz,

I am with you on this. The whole PPSMI scheme was flawed from the outset precisely because it was cosmetic. And a lot of the objections against the scrapping of PPSMI has more to do with contempt of the Malay language than it does with actual concerns about the improving of the standards of English (as if that actually makes a major difference, consider the large majority of Eastern African and Southern African nations that DO USE English as a medium of instruction in schools).

If its the standards of English that we want to see improved, it makes more sense to focus on training our teachers to be better equipped to teach the language. We have a pandemic shortage of teachers, both in the public as well as private sectors, while the licensing regime for qualified teachers remain as inaccessible and monopolistic than ever before. If its technical skills in Mathematics and Science that we want to see improved, the same argument persists.

In my own current personal experience, I am facing enormous difficulty coping with university level Calculus and Discrete Mathematics as an adult student because I did not have the privilege (or interest, in all honesty) to do Additional Math when I was in secondary school. That doesn't make it optional for me as I will need to pass these two courses to get my degree. Does being predisposed to the humanities make me more susceptible to mathematical dyslexia? Even a basic exposure to pre-calculus in the secondary school environment would have better prepared me for this experience. Unfortunately, the policymakers decided that Arts stream students like us were better off with just a basic grasp of arithmetic, geometry and algebra.

The point of this is that the system itself has some inherent flaws that no one has yet decided to take on or at least bring to the public arena. It is pathetic that half a century after we've decided to take sovereignty into our own hands that we are still squabbling over language and the other non-essentials of the periphery.

AllUrban
08-07-2009, 05:55 PM
Moaz,

I am with you on this. The whole PPSMI scheme was flawed from the outset precisely because it was cosmetic. And a lot of the objections against the scrapping of PPSMI has more to do with contempt of the Malay language than it does with actual concerns about the improving of the standards of English (as if that actually makes a major difference, consider the large majority of Eastern African and Southern African nations that DO USE English as a medium of instruction in schools).

If its the standards of English that we want to see improved, it makes more sense to focus on training our teachers to be better equipped to teach the language. We have a pandemic shortage of teachers, both in the public as well as private sectors, while the licensing regime for qualified teachers remain as inaccessible and monopolistic than ever before. If its technical skills in Mathematics and Science that we want to see improved, the same argument persists.

In my own current personal experience, I am facing enormous difficulty coping with university level Calculus and Discrete Mathematics as an adult student because I did not have the privilege (or interest, in all honesty) to do Additional Math when I was in secondary school. That doesn't make it optional for me as I will need to pass these two courses to get my degree. Does being predisposed to the humanities make me more susceptible to mathematical dyslexia? Even a basic exposure to pre-calculus in the secondary school environment would have better prepared me for this experience. Unfortunately, the policymakers decided that Arts stream students like us were better off with just a basic grasp of arithmetic, geometry and algebra.

The point of this is that the system itself has some inherent flaws that no one has yet decided to take on or at least bring to the public arena. It is pathetic that half a century after we've decided to take sovereignty into our own hands that we are still squabbling over language and the other non-essentials of the periphery.Bob,

I fully stand by the teaching of the Malay language in this country along with other languages to enhance learning. But I have expressed (I hope it is clearly) my reservations about the politics that permeates all education systems like a foul odour.

Everything I have seen in my young life shows me that people are better off if given the freedom to choose and make choices ... and the role of the government is to ensure fairness and justice in all aspects of life.

Unfortunately, as the saying goes, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Hence, any top-down, government or authority-oriented system is going to lean towards bureaucracy and corruption.

In the Canadian system (and ICPU) students have the option of taking as many credits as they wish to (provided that they are offered by the school) and the only requirements are pre-requisite and co-requisite courses.

This means that there are no "streams" and students are free to choose and decide on their own programs according to their own needs and goals.

I took full advantage of this, finishing Secondary school with 34 credits (over the required 30) and taking all mathematics and science courses that I needed to take). In University I took 24 credits (over a required 20 for a 4-year Bachelor's degree) in 3 different programs - History, Biology and Economics.


On Maths

As for your problems with maths - I had a similar experience. I was in advanced maths until it came to higher level Algebra and calculus - and despite my best efforts I just couldnt make it through and barely passed those classes.

I wasn't a "humanities guy" then, and I was taking a mix of courses. But I thought that it was just me but now I realize that mathematical concepts can be attained through hard work and the right teaching.

Being predisposed to the humanities (aka. more "right brained" or not being a "technical/spatial" learner) as you describe just means that you have to work harder at it and you need to be taught the concepts in a way that you understand.

My suggestion is, try to find real examples of calculus in architecture and design ... it will help you see the application of those concepts and theories in a whole new light.

One of my colleagues used the example of Malaysian house gates (complex curves) in her class. Flyovers and road design (banking of curves) are also great examples.

It really goes to show you that it is easier to understand and appreciate maths if you can see it all around you.

I hope that helps a little bit.

Cheers, m

leetickseng
08-07-2009, 06:09 PM
The minister said we did not fail completely but only did not achieve what we supposed to achieve. Is there any difference? A flop is a flop.
This is another fine example of how much billions of public fund have gone into the drain? Hangus terus.

USJ27Resident
08-07-2009, 09:09 PM
CONFIRMED all our kids, all got screwed - no thanks to... and this fat crater faced politician will be hailed as the new "wira bahasa".... :mad:

he just guaranteed his re-election chances... :mad:

I guess whole load of Maktab Perguruan Setengah Masak is gonna be cheering tonight... whilst those that were doing so well, teaching their students - are gonna weep silently... damn! damn!! :(


Paper tabled today. Decision made today. But we can all take comfort because the Cabinet will not decide hastily......

Figure that one out :p

I just hope that come GE13 - that BN would also be hastily dumped as well...

Sentinel
08-07-2009, 09:37 PM
They (the garmen lah) threw the baby out with the bathwater....

If it is the teachers who are weak in English, for God's sake put more money and focus on solving this problem than spending good money to buy useless submarines and fighter jets....

Now they introduce English literature (looketh like many of thy kidst shall speaketh like Shakespeare...) but they still have to train more English teachers, right?

I sometimes think we have eggheads making decisons for our children's future...

Firebird
08-07-2009, 11:00 PM
Screwing our kids in the name of getting a few more votes while they send their kids overseas or to international schools with their ill-gotten gains. What do we do with such people? :mad:

bslee
08-07-2009, 11:41 PM
What do we do with such people? :mad:
There's NOTHING much one can do. Just take the extra effort to give your own offspring to have the best education in EL with other means. Those who prefer to lag behind..let them be. YOU FORGE and PURSUE AHEAD ON YOUR OWN!.

USJ27Resident
09-07-2009, 12:59 AM
Screwing our kids in the name of getting a few more votes while they send their kids overseas or to international schools with their ill-gotten gains. :mad:

why do they send their kids to overseas/international schools... so that their kids can [hopefully] come back and take over their parents places, just like what the current batch is doing... only this time, it'll be easier becos the voters (of the future) would probably be just dumb ass non english speaking labourers slogging 18hrs a day... while they'd probably spend 18 mins a day in the office...

keny
09-07-2009, 08:01 AM
I understand goverment bashing here...but can someone explain why Chinese Educators not being bashed? They're the latest to threat a march down public demonstration if PPMSI not abolished....and today they question why can't it be abolished sooner instead of 2012.

does anyone know any of them?

jimmyay
09-07-2009, 08:19 AM
Cos the teacher can't teach, the children suffer.
Cos the Proton is not cost effective, the rakyat suffer.

What the logic behind these?

USJ27Resident
09-07-2009, 08:40 AM
I understand goverment bashing here...but can someone explain why Chinese Educators not being bashed?

Friend... suddenly it is made to look like the Chinese & Tamil schools are also very keen to revert back to mother tongue teaching... :rolleyes:

... and you believe? ;)

Every thing that is said and done by this 'dum-dums' have to be taken with a pinch of salt... ( but make sure you watch your blood pressure! sigh!!! )

xaviers
09-07-2009, 08:55 AM
2012 - election year right?

Still got time

tsd
09-07-2009, 09:13 AM
I somehow agree with Dr M, there are so many English words especially in science, it will be very difficult to convert to Bahasa Malaysia. His example of the use of word "oxygen" alone already pose a troubles... as he mentioned the word 'oxygen' will derive 'xygenation’, ‘oxidation’, ‘oxide’, ‘oxidants’ and many more... can anyone translate those ? Imagine there are hundred more of those...

I hope this language switch is not because of the pressure from Pakatan Rakyat. If so, I will have to blame Pakatan for it.

CCY
09-07-2009, 09:30 AM
Hmmmm....I'm lost for words on this...and it seems to me that it is use as an effective containment policy for our future generation....
Dr Azly pours out his views here...
http://azlyrahman-illuminations.blogspot.com/2009/07/again-on-teaching-of-maths-and-science.html

Richard Poh
09-07-2009, 10:10 AM
I think Math and Scence should be taught in Japanese . Then no more debate and hopefully we can be advance nation like the Jap.

Look East Policy Boleh !

Sugarfree
09-07-2009, 11:11 AM
I think Math and Scence should be taught in Japanese .(off topic) and i wanna be taught by those hottie japanese teachers! ;)

Sentinel
09-07-2009, 01:48 PM
Shucks... I just ordered a set of Science Encyclopedia for my niece. They are in English.

AllUrban
09-07-2009, 02:31 PM
Shucks... I just ordered a set of Science Encyclopedia for my niece. They are in English.have her translate the encyclopedia terms by writing in the encyclopedia or using post it notes.

Then she learns and understand the terms in both languages.

fluoride = florida
chloride = klorida
sodium (natrium) = natria (?)
biology = biologi
chemistry = kimia
Boyle's Law = Undang Boyle

in a knowledge-based curriculum, this is all she needs to know.
:rolleyes:

Cheers, m

Oogway
09-07-2009, 02:37 PM
Can somebody explain how they are phasing out the teaching of Maths. & Science in English? I was told that a current std 1 student would study Maths. & Sci. in English until Std 4 only while a current std 5 student would study Maths. & Sci. until Form 4 and in Form 5, the 2 subjects will be taught in BM.

If that is really the case, how are the students going to cope in Form 5 when the 2 subjects are taught and tested in BM for the first time ? I really hope that is not the case!

HTCHONG
09-07-2009, 03:15 PM
Yesterday, my daughter (in Primary 4) asked me while we were watching news together. “Dad, what is wrong with teaching math & science in English?”
I paused and replied “I don’t know.” :confused:

JoeJaffar
09-07-2009, 03:16 PM
have her translate the encyclopedia terms by writing in the encyclopedia or using post it notes.

Then she learns and understand the terms in both languages.

fluoride = florida
chloride = klorida
sodium (natrium) = natria (?)
biology = biologi
chemistry = kimia
Boyle's Law = Undang Boyle

in a knowledge-based curriculum, this is all she needs to know.
:rolleyes:

Cheers, m

sodium = natrium
potassium = kalium

i made these mistakes during my first year chem lab session, asking the lab tech where's the natrium and kalium. the lab tech went 'huh?'

Shaneburger
09-07-2009, 03:22 PM
Is that why those of us who were taught exclusively in BM from 1981 - 2003 are currently NOT working as maids and construction workers?

why? two reasons - Petronas and Spore$ 1 = RM 1 (in 1982)

btw, our spm leavers are working as "cleaners" in Spore and staying in JB - monthly income S$1.5k = RM 3.6k

anyone knows which company is paying RM 3.6k at fresh grad level?

malaysia tak boleh lah :D

Sukdershan
09-07-2009, 03:29 PM
I understand goverment bashing here...but can someone explain why Chinese Educators not being bashed? They're the latest to threat a march down public demonstration if PPMSI not abolished....and today they question why can't it be abolished sooner instead of 2012.

does anyone know any of them?
Yeah what about the Tamil speaking lovers, why no comments about them.
:mad:

Big M
09-07-2009, 04:27 PM
Hi everyone!

Having gone through the era where maths and science were taught in English I knew how beneficial it was to learn these important subjects in English, not so much about improving our English through these two subjects. However it seems that the people on both sides of the political divide are not interested to hear or consider all the sensible points put forward by the parties in favour of this policy. Instead the reasons given for this abrupt reversal are rather ridiculous, viz. due to teacher’s poor command of English (this will definitely improved over time with or without training), due to the importance of Bahasa Malaysia (this is just political positioning by some politicians for their own interest and the paranoiac fear of some people championing the Malay language, if ever they are really genuine; as a matter of fact almost everyone in Malaysia now can communicate in BM) and due to some questionable studies which say that Maths and Science are better learnt in the mother tongue (are they saying that the generation of people who have studied and coped with Maths and Science in English is super intelligent and the present generation is stupid?). We have already seen the ill effects of the switch from English to BM which started in the 70s, especially in the job market now. Very soon, when people of my generation are gone our country will reach a point of no return.

Being a Chinese, I have defied the herd mentality “for Chinese school preference” by choosing to send my child to Sekolah Kebangsaan and have registered another child for the 2011 session, simply because of the PPSMI policy. Did the Government consider people like us, the non-Malays studying in the SKs, when reversing the policy? Malay is also not our mother tongue. We are the ones truly supporting the Government’s call for “unity through education”. I can see that in my child, who can mix well and play around freely with the children of other races in her school. At this young age she is not biased and is basically "colour-blind". I feel this is the most ideal age for children of different races to mix, before they become biased due to parental influence, politics and the government policies later on. There is no need to spend $billions every year on National Service. The Government should have spent these Sbillions in strengthening and liberalizing the SKs to attract more non-Malays, making it the school of choice for all Malaysian. Oop! Isn’t that word “school of choice” what Hishamuddin has been blaring out frequently when he was our Education Minister? Now everything is down the drain with the abolishment of the PPSMI policy. I may have to consider switching my kids to a Chinese school. There will be more racial segregation.

Sentinel
09-07-2009, 04:48 PM
If a simple scientific term sodium is natrium in Malay, even I will be in trouble if I read a Malay document... geez this is crazy. If they don't have the equivalent words in Malay, why not just translate it literally instead of being proud and create one new one which is so confusing... natrium??

p.s. one of these days, a student who has done his Science in English and then start doing it in Malay gonna make a science lab somewhere goes KaBoOm! because he/she put the wrong stuff in the beaker....

AllUrban
09-07-2009, 05:08 PM
sodium = natrium
potassium = kalium

i made these mistakes during my first year chem lab session, asking the lab tech where's the natrium and kalium. the lab tech went 'huh?'hahah Natrium is the original name of Sodium, and Kalium is the original name of Potassium.

Nothing to do with BM, sorry :rolleyes:

Natrium and Kalium are the original names of the two elements. Though the common use has changed to Sodium and Potassium (respectively), they haven't changed the symbols on the periodic table of the elements...

"new name" a.k.a "old name" > symbol
Sodium a.k.a. Natrium > Na
Potassium a.k.a. Kalium > K

So while JoeJaffar was confused one way, I had the opposite experience - spent my last year of primary science (age 13) wondering why Sodium was "Na" and Potassium was "K" ... why not "So" or "Sm" and "Po" or "Pm" :D

You may say, why didnt the DBP choose to use Sodium and Potassium as the source words (Sodiam and Potasiam, anyone?) .... well, it wouldn't fit with the periodic table, which is the technical document & resource that all science students must know and understand.

By the way, check out these resources

dynamic period table - http://www.dayah.com/periodic/
wikipedia entry - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periodic_table

Cheers, m

ps. By the way, on the periodic table:

Iron > Fe
Gold > Au
Silver > Ag
Mercury > Hg
Copper > Cu
Lead > Pb
Antimony > Sn
Tin > Sn

VeeJay
09-07-2009, 05:20 PM
So while JoeJaffar was confused one way, I had the opposite experience - spent my last year of primary science (age 13) wondering why Sodium was "Na" and Potassium was "K" ... why not "So" or "Sm" and "Po" or "Pm" :D

Cheers, m

Exactly my confusion as well. In fact periodic table ( and technical term) is NA = Natrium (a latin/arabic) term.

But some smart guy got the name from soda (sodium hydroxide) and the name Sodium was used thereafter. It should have remained as Natrium in English :mad:

AllUrban
09-07-2009, 05:29 PM
Exactly my confusion as well. In fact periodic table ( and technical term) is NA = Natrium (a latin/arabic) term.

But some smart guy got the name from soda (sodium hydroxide) [Natrium Hydroxide a.k.a "Soda" back then] and the name Sodium was used thereafter. It should have remained as Natrium in English :mad:fair enough...then we should also be using Argentium, Aurium, Plumbium (?), Cuprium (?) and Ferium (?) to replace silver, gold, lead, copper, and iron, respectively. :D

This time we blame the English language ....

hmmm...if Sodium comes from "soda" anyone know where "Potassium" comes from?

Cheers, m

bslee
09-07-2009, 05:33 PM
hmmm...if Sodium comes from "soda" anyone know where "Potassium" comes from?
Cheers, m

Ah! Coca Cola = Koka Kola? or Koke? :)
I know many flers plonounce "soda" = SOTARRRR!... :D Light or long?

kwchang
09-07-2009, 05:40 PM
HaHaHa, actually the use of the CORRECT scientific names for the elements is actually a PLUS point for Bahasa Malaysia. In this case the English version screwed up.

Therefore, please check before anyone bashes the language.

A lot of people bash BM because of political issues that deviate their opinions. Once we remove the excess baggage, perhaps we can see the beauty of the language. When I look at BM objectively, it is actually a beautiful language.

By the way, I failed my Bahasa Melayu (the tougher version) paper in Form 5 - that was due to short sightedness on my part and not listening to advice to take the simpler Bahasa Malaysia. I took the exam again (B.Malaysia this time) and got a credit. Now after many years of using the language in my job, I find that BM is actually quite a piece of cake. Of course, my vocabulary is still limited because unless one dwell into the classic literature, it would not be possible to expand the vocabulary.

kuma
09-07-2009, 05:42 PM
Dr.M says he is not surprised over the disappointment and even anger towards the government’s decision on this issue. Says the Govt. is not listening to the people.

He himself is very upset and has called for a vote from Malaysians and then he's going to bring up the issue with the Govt.

So go CAST YOUR VOTE HERE (http://chedet.co.cc/chedetblog/2009/07/the-teaching-of-maths-and-scie.html) and Make a Difference.

VeeJay
09-07-2009, 05:43 PM
This time we blame the English language ....

hmmm...if Sodium comes from "soda" anyone know where "Potassium" comes from?
Cheers, m

Hahaha...a pot and ash! :D

AllUrban
09-07-2009, 05:49 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periodic_table_(Chinese) another interesting resource including periodic tables in both simplified and traditional Chinese as well as explanations of the varying origins of the different common names used.

Just an example:

Japanese

Tungsten (Wo - original name is Wolfram) is Tangusuten

Sodium (Na - original name is Natrium) is Natoriumu

Cheers, m

AllUrban
09-07-2009, 05:51 PM
Hahaha...a pot and ash! :Dyou got it! ("potash" is now potassium)

Ok, maybe we are digressing from the spirit of the thread. But it was really fun and I hope the resources are useful. :D

Cheers, m

Sentinel
09-07-2009, 06:02 PM
HaHaHa, actually the use of the CORRECT scientific names for the elements is actually a PLUS point for Bahasa Malaysia. In this case the English version screwed up.

Therefore, please check before anyone bashes the language.

A lot of people bash BM because of political issues that deviate their opinions. Once we remove the excess baggage, perhaps we can see the beauty of the language. When I look at BM objectively, it is actually a beautiful language.

Sorry brader, pls do not lump all in your opinion. My Malay is good, written and spoken plus a few regional dialects. I just feel that for progress and international use, it should be taught in English. Don't assume my opinion is flawed just because we do not agree.

QuietStorm
09-07-2009, 06:14 PM
So go CAST YOUR VOTE HERE (http://chedet.co.cc/chedetblog/2009/07/the-teaching-of-maths-and-scie.html) and Make a Difference.Thanks, Kuma, for the link. Let's all come together and make a difference. Not so much for us but for our children's future and that of the country. :)

Raikonen
09-07-2009, 06:55 PM
Hi everyone!


Being a Chinese, I have defied the herd mentality “for Chinese school preference” by choosing to send my child to Sekolah Kebangsaan and have registered another child for the 2011 session, simply because of the PPSMI policy. Did the Government consider people like us, the non-Malays studying in the SKs, when reversing the policy? Malay is also not our mother tongue. We are the ones truly supporting the Government’s call for “unity through education”. I can see that in my child, who can mix well and play around freely with the children of other races in her school. At this young age she is not biased and is basically "colour-blind". .

That's y i think it is good to have a neutral language like English as the medium of instruction...Fair? Unless the perception is that non-malays are better in learning english than malays.....

QuietStorm
09-07-2009, 07:16 PM
Being a Chinese, I have defied the herd mentality “for Chinese school preference” by choosing to send my child to Sekolah Kebangsaan and have registered another child for the 2011 session, simply because of the PPSMI policy.Now everything is down the drain with the abolishment of the PPSMI policy.Same here, bro. I'm most disappointed. Our kids are being taken for a ride, that's for sure. Let's hope some sense will kick in and we see another flip flop decision, this time back to English! :D

bslee
09-07-2009, 07:17 PM
We can all argue and debate till the cows come home lah.
If you all think English Language is valuable and beneficial for the future of your offspring. GO AHEAD AND EDUCATE THEM ACCORDINGLY!. No if's No but's.
Many issues and policies are already flawed in this country but going backwards is to the point of stupidity!

QuietStorm
09-07-2009, 07:21 PM
GO AHEAD AND EDUCATE THEM ACCORDINGLY!. No if's No but's.Exactly, my friend. That's exactly what I have been doing.

Fang Su
09-07-2009, 07:44 PM
Now they introduce English literature (looketh like many of thy kidst shall speaketh like Shakespeare...) but they still have to train more English teachers, right?

The government made a decision which it thinks can be solved by simplistic solutions. It talks about re-introducing Literature in English. I have serious misgivings that students would be able to read such texts and I also have my doubts whether there are enough suitably qualified (and imaginative) teachers who can teach it.

How many can understand Geoffrey Chaucer's The Nun Priest's Tale?

A povre wydwe, somdeel stape in age
Was whilom dwellyng in a narwe cotage,
Biside a grove, stondynge in a dale.
This wydwe, of which I telle yow my tale,
Syn thilke day that she was last a wyf,
In pacience ladde a ful symple lyf,
For litel was hir catel and hir rente.
By housbondrie of swich as God hire sente
She foond hirself and eek hir doghtren two.
Thre large sowes hadde she, and namo,
Three keen, and eek a sheep that highte malle.
Ful sooty was hire bour and eek hir halle,
In which she eet ful many a sklendre meel.

Or William Shakespeare's popular Hamlet? I believe it has become popular because of both original-texted and modern versions of it shown being on the big screen. Let's look at the original text and I do not think any self-respecting boy or girl would be interested.

MARCELLUS

Horatio says 'tis but our fantasy,
And will not let belief take hold of him
Touching this dreaded sight, twice seen of us:
Therefore I have entreated him along
With us to watch the minutes of this night;
That if again this apparition come,
He may approve our eyes and speak to it.

HORATIO

Tush, tush, 'twill not appear.

BERNARDO

Sit down awhile;
And let us once again assail your ears,
That are so fortified against our story
What we have two nights seen.

HORATIO

Well, sit we down,
And let us hear Bernardo speak of this.

BERNARDO

Last night of all,
When yond same star that's westward from the pole
Had made his course to illume that part of heaven
Where now it burns, Marcellus and myself,
The bell then beating one

And those are only a few verses from Act 1 Scene 1.

VeeJay
09-07-2009, 08:20 PM
So go CAST YOUR VOTE HERE (http://chedet.co.cc/chedetblog/2009/07/the-teaching-of-maths-and-scie.html) and Make a Difference.

Thanks for the link...one guy nailed it well!

>>
I agree with Harris. 1Country1System ! With this new enhanced policy, 1Subject3Versions - Malay, Mandarin and Tamil. And when you reach Form 1, start everything again in Malay.
Then start everything again in English for Form 6.

With this policy, do we want to produce more scientist or are we more interested in producing translators?
<<

bslee
09-07-2009, 08:23 PM
In the midst of all the brouhahah, the Boss and kuncu-kuncu are seen on the mass media explaining this and that, introducing other extras. Actually its another balancing act to appease all. The garmen have repeatedly insinuated there existed weaknesses in the past like insufficient and incompetent teachers. So?..there EXIST major weakness in the education system all along and the rakyat are paying for it. Now its 5 BILLIONNNNN to rectify the situation!. Yes..its from the taxpayer again paying for costly mistakes!.
THATS WHY I SWORE and knowing what to do exactly at every GE!

Carolrasiah
09-07-2009, 09:00 PM
ai yah very simple lah.............we are going backwards!!!

Sugarfree
09-07-2009, 09:33 PM
ai yah very simple lah.............we are going backwards!!!ahhhhh...yessssssss! but careful, this reverse roller coaster's made by bee end and i saw some rusty parts. ride at your own risk...oh wait a mo, it's a compulsory ride!! omg! we are all on it! eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!.... :eek:

USJ27Resident
09-07-2009, 09:39 PM
The link to Tun's blog was a heck of an eye opener... At first, I registered and wanted to post my opinion too... but then I got caught up, reading other people's comments

What suprised the heck out of me, was the number of Malay respondents that wrote in... (most of them actually wrote in proper decent English)... another thing that caught my eye, were responses from students - and even uni grads that wrote in... and they too supports the PPSMI...

If so... then where the heck did this outspoken (PakLah's thorn in the side) DPM/EDU get his facts and figures to justify this "flop" decision....

One student nailed it, with her comments:-


By Ruzanna on July 9, 2009 4:11 PM
Dear Sir,

I am a 17-year-old, going to a National school and currently learning Science and Mathematics in English. I must say, that I was and still am appalled by the decision made by the government. I mean, how selfish could they get? I read The Star today, and it says that the decision to teach Science and Mathematics back to Bahasa Malaysia was based on studies. Studies that lasted only 6 years?!

Sir, even though they say, that we must "martabatkan sekolah kebangsaan", look at where most politicians' children go to school.

1Malaysia? *Spits* A gimmick.

Sentinel
09-07-2009, 09:50 PM
The government made a decision which it thinks can be solved by simplistic solutions. It talks about re-introducing Literature in English. I have serious misgivings that students would be able to read such texts and I also have my doubts whether there are enough suitably qualified (and imaginative) teachers who can teach it.

How many can understand Geoffrey Chaucer's The Nun Priest's Tale?

A povre wydwe, somdeel stape in age
Was whilom dwellyng in a narwe cotage,
Biside a grove, stondynge in a dale.
This wydwe, of which I telle yow my tale,
Syn thilke day that she was last a wyf,
In pacience ladde a ful symple lyf,
For litel was hir catel and hir rente.
By housbondrie of swich as God hire sente
She foond hirself and eek hir doghtren two.
Thre large sowes hadde she, and namo,
Three keen, and eek a sheep that highte malle.
Ful sooty was hire bour and eek hir halle,
In which she eet ful many a sklendre meel.

Or William Shakespeare's popular Hamlet? I believe it has become popular because of both original-texted and modern versions of it shown being on the big screen. Let's look at the original text and I do not think any self-respecting boy or girl would be interested.

MARCELLUS

Horatio says 'tis but our fantasy,
And will not let belief take hold of him
Touching this dreaded sight, twice seen of us:
Therefore I have entreated him along
With us to watch the minutes of this night;
That if again this apparition come,
He may approve our eyes and speak to it.

HORATIO

Tush, tush, 'twill not appear.

BERNARDO

Sit down awhile;
And let us once again assail your ears,
That are so fortified against our story
What we have two nights seen.

HORATIO

Well, sit we down,
And let us hear Bernardo speak of this.

BERNARDO

Last night of all,
When yond same star that's westward from the pole
Had made his course to illume that part of heaven
Where now it burns, Marcellus and myself,
The bell then beating one

And those are only a few verses from Act 1 Scene 1.

Thou must haveth missed the 8 o'clock news? It was reported that MYR5 billion haveth been put aside to improveth the English language.

Perhaps this is all worth it just to ensure they don't lose the hinterland's support i.e. rural votes... sheesh!

bslee
09-07-2009, 09:53 PM
THIS IS WHAT YOU MALAYSIANS DESERVE WHEN YOU HAVE POLITIKUS having a HAND DECIDING IN EVERY ASPECT OF MALAYSIAN LIFE!.. EVERYTHING OSO WANNA KONTROLLLL!. and...WE SINK into the abyss...surely!

USJ27Resident
09-07-2009, 10:18 PM
#$%^& !! 5 BLOODY BILLION !!

Give me half that figure and I get the bloody teachers trained on submarines without Mongolia translators... :mad:

Fang Su
09-07-2009, 10:49 PM
#$%^& !! 5 BLOODY BILLION !!

Give me half that figure and I get the bloody teachers trained on submarines without Mongolia translators... :mad:

See? Every man has a price. :)

bslee
09-07-2009, 10:57 PM
With that bullion, do you think its sufficient to employ a ship load of UK or USA expat teachers for say 5 years, and replace all those who can't do the job here. Wild guess.

Fang Su
09-07-2009, 11:00 PM
With that bullion, do you think its sufficient to employ a ship load of UK or USA expat teachers for say 5 years, and replace all those who can't do the job here. Wild guess.

With RM5 billion, I think we maybe able to bring Geoffrey Chaucer and William Shakespeare back to life.

USJ27Resident
09-07-2009, 11:47 PM
With that bullion, do you think its sufficient to employ a ship load of UK or USA expat teachers for say 5 years, and replace all those who can't do the job here. Wild guess.

Nope... But I think you can get a SHIPLOAD of Canadian teachers and lecturers that can teach English to our local 'blur sotong' teachers... and I guess you guys can guess who can be the PERFECT headhunter for this project... :p

bugbear
10-07-2009, 12:30 AM
Me think this scrapping of PPSMI is a trade off with the removing of 30% Malay equity. The Malays were very angry with the government and now to appease them, PPSMI has been sacrificed on the altar of UMNO. For all intend and purposes, this is a populist move to woo voters in Manik Urai. I believe the government has taken us all for a ride and we shall not forget them coming GE13.

kwchang
10-07-2009, 01:21 AM
Sorry brader, pls do not lump all in your opinion. My Malay is good, written and spoken plus a few regional dialects. I just feel that for progress and international use, it should be taught in English. Don't assume my opinion is flawed just because we do not agree.
Brader, you missed the point I was making ... I did not say anyone's BM is bad although mine isn't good to start with (I failed, remember?). The point I was making was one can always see the beauty in any language once we take away the excess baggage.

Anyway, I too support English as a neutral and progressive medium of instruction. It is neutral in the first place because most of us don't have English as our ancestral tongue (note that I deviate from "mother tongue"). Being "neutral" removes the excess baggage of "my" language and "their" language.

kwchang
10-07-2009, 01:34 AM
...and now to appease them, PPSMI has been sacrificed on the altar of UMNO. For all intend and purposes, this is a populist move to woo voters in Manik Urai. I believe the government has taken us all for a ride and we shall not forget them coming GE13.
Let me point out 2 problems with that arguement

1) Making BM the language of instruction isn't actually "good" for the Malay-speaking population. Tun Mahatir was actually forcing the use of English to draw the kampung folks out of their comfort zone. It was done in good faith for their own good. Yes, it would be painful at the beginning but in time (6 years is not time enough) the children schooled in English would make the quantum leap off their coconut shells.

2) Voting for the opposition front (PKR) does not necessarily reverse this decision of keeping BM as the medium of instruction. A lot of people actually are under the presumption that PKR ensures English will be used. Did you people not remember what Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim said? Read it in TheStar (http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2009/6/28/nation/20090628184702&sec=nation)

bugbear
10-07-2009, 08:51 AM
Let me point out 2 problems with that arguement

1) Making BM the language of instruction isn't actually "good" for the Malay-speaking population. Tun Mahatir was actually forcing the use of English to draw the kampung folks out of their comfort zone. It was done in good faith for their own good. Yes, it would be painful at the beginning but in time (6 years is not time enough) the children schooled in English would make the quantum leap off their coconut shells.

2) Voting for the opposition front (PKR) does not necessarily reverse this decision of keeping BM as the medium of instruction. A lot of people actually are under the presumption that PKR ensures English will be used. Did you people not remember what Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim said? Read it in TheStar (http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2009/6/28/nation/20090628184702&sec=nation)
But you must realise kwchang that the Malays and Dong Zong as a grouping not to mention Tamil educators are all crying for their blood if nothing is being done. I mean, these people comprises a sizable voting block IMHO. BN has been doing a lot of taking and giving all their life and this is no different. Is it any wonder why Najib's rating has been on the rise of late?

Rhiga
10-07-2009, 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwchang

Therefore, please check before anyone bashes the language.

A lot of people bash BM because of political issues that deviate their opinions. Once we remove the excess baggage, perhaps we can see the beauty of the language. When I look at BM objectively, it is actually a beautiful language. [/I]


I disagree. My BM in SPM (1985) was A2 and my mandarin is C5 and English is C3. Based on the result, I must be a BM language lover ???

I went to chinese school in both primary and secondary level and I think my command of mandarin is good. The SPM result on my chinese language is a reflection of the bias policy.

bobkee
10-07-2009, 10:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwchang

Therefore, please check before anyone bashes the language.

A lot of people bash BM because of political issues that deviate their opinions. Once we remove the excess baggage, perhaps we can see the beauty of the language. When I look at BM objectively, it is actually a beautiful language. [/I]


I disagree. My BM in SPM (1985) was A2 and my mandarin is C5 and English is C3. Based on the result, I must be a BM language lover ???

I went to chinese school in both primary and secondary level and I think my command of mandarin is good. The SPM result on my chinese language is a reflection of the bias policy.Or that the standards of SPM Chinese are really high and it gets harder to score on that curve. That was one of the main reasons why I dropped Chinese language for SPM .. I realised I'd probably just get a low pass for it.

bobkee
10-07-2009, 10:26 AM
Anyway folks, now that so many are done venting .. any constructive comments and suggestions on how we can actually work together to improve the system?

In all fairness, the curriculum hasn't really changed much. I was one of the last batches of students under the old MCE/SPM system which was around for quite a few decades and the current KBSR / KBSM system has been around for at least 2 decades as well. Why then are overall standards dropping, whether in languages, sciences or humanities? My own anecdotal evaluation would be due to the ossified system that is currently in place for the training and placement of teachers.

Looking at the official reasons for dropping PPSMI, the blame seems to fall primarily on the members of the teaching profession; ie. up to 75% of school teachers surveyed scored less than 51% in the Ministry of Education's English language proficiency evaluations (see today's report in The Star).

Would the liberalisation of the teacher's licensing regime help? What I mean is that currently teacher's training is almost the exclusive province of state run Teacher Training Colleges and its pretty obvious that demand exceeds supply. Throw in the relatively low public sector pay scale and the need for long term commitments, and one is bound to have problems in recruitment.

Would a broader qualifications framework for teachers (ie. multiple points of entry; eg. not just limited to state run TTC's but also people holding the necessary qualifications from the private sector; as well as levels of entry; eg. teaching assistants, licensed teachers) coupled with a more competitive pay scale improve matters in the long run?

AllUrban
10-07-2009, 10:48 AM
Or William Shakespeare's popular Hamlet? I believe it has become popular because of both original-texted and modern versions of it shown being on the big screen. Let's look at the original text and I do not think any self-respecting boy or girl would be interested.

MARCELLUS

Horatio says 'tis but our fantasy,
And will not let belief take hold of him
Touching this dreaded sight, twice seen of us:
Therefore I have entreated him along
With us to watch the minutes of this night;
That if again this apparition come,
He may approve our eyes and speak to it.

HORATIO

Tush, tush, 'twill not appear.

BERNARDO

Sit down awhile;
And let us once again assail your ears,
That are so fortified against our story
What we have two nights seen.

HORATIO

Well, sit we down,
And let us hear Bernardo speak of this.

BERNARDO

Last night of all,
When yond same star that's westward from the pole
Had made his course to illume that part of heaven
Where now it burns, Marcellus and myself,
The bell then beating one

And those are only a few verses from Act 1 Scene 1.I thought it was just popular because it a great tragedy with violence, lust, deceit (external and internal), mental issues, and more violence. And it is a bit funny too.

Typical Shakespeare tragedy. In ICPU our students look at Hamlet and Macbeth, along with a few other important books - Death of a Salesman and the Great Gatsby are quite popular.

Cheers, m

AllUrban
10-07-2009, 10:51 AM
With RM5 billion, I think we maybe able to bring Geoffrey Chaucer and William Shakespeare back to life.Who knows, it might ba a great Malaysian discovery - how to bring dead English playwrights back to life...

Probably they can patent the discovery (like "hydrofuel" and the "bulletproof vest made of coconut husk fibre") and chalk it up to the value of teaching Science & Maths in BM.

Full pullout section in UM and BH.....and lots of coverage on public tv and radio.

Cheers, m

AllUrban
10-07-2009, 10:53 AM
Nope... But I think you can get a SHIPLOAD of Canadian teachers and lecturers that can teach English to our local 'blur sotong' teachers... and I guess you guys can guess who can be the PERFECT headhunter for this project... :phahhahaha I know who he is too...too bad he no longer works for us....but he is still in Malaysia ...

Cheers, m

AllUrban
10-07-2009, 10:55 AM
Anyway folks, now that so many are done venting .. any constructive comments and suggestions on how we can actually work together to improve the system?

In all fairness, the curriculum hasn't really changed much. I was one of the last batches of students under the old MCE/SPM system which was around for quite a few decades and the current KBSR / KBSM system has been around for at least 2 decades as well. Why then are overall standards dropping, whether in languages, sciences or humanities? My own anecdotal evaluation would be due to the ossified system that is currently in place for the training and placement of teachers.

Looking at the official reasons for dropping PPSMI, the blame seems to fall primarily on the members of the teaching profession; ie. up to 75% of school teachers surveyed scored less than 51% in the Ministry of Education's English language proficiency evaluations (see today's report in The Star).

Would the liberalisation of the teacher's licensing regime help? What I mean is that currently teacher's training is almost the exclusive province of state run Teacher Training Colleges and its pretty obvious that demand exceeds supply. Throw in the relatively low public sector pay scale and the need for long term commitments, and one is bound to have problems in recruitment.

Would a broader qualifications framework for teachers (ie. multiple points of entry; eg. not just limited to state run TTC's but also people holding the necessary qualifications from the private sector; as well as levels of entry; eg. teaching assistants, licensed teachers) coupled with a more competitive pay scale improve matters in the long run?I know that many private uni colleges are keen to move into the education of education...including the one I work for. As in the past, if there arent enough local public universities then the private sector will have to fill that vacuum. Of course, that can be good or bad as the case may be.

As for the entry requirements - just having experience in a particular field does not give you enough training to be a teacher. m can attest that even 1-2 years of Teacher training is not enough. I learned more in the first month in a classroom than I did in 2 years of teacher training.

I guess it depends on what the format of education would be. If it is lecture based than anyone with content-based qualifications can teach it. Perhaps this would be good for secondary schools? But for active learning and interactive learning you need a trained teacher.

As for the pay scale ... good pay is a necessity for any profession. A primary or secondary school teacher in Canada with 12 years of experience can make as much as CAD8000 per month...but that is with Union negotiations and strike action + very high expectations. Singapore is paying teachers at 3000-6000 per month if I recall correctly. But teaching is a profession there, not a job.

Cheers, m

bobkee
10-07-2009, 11:15 AM
Formal pedagogic education doesn't replace practical experience, does it? Nonetheless, allowing the private sector access to the "education of education" would significantly increase the pool of trained educators and the competition wouldn't really hurt standards as well.

CCY
10-07-2009, 11:16 AM
Bob..... After identifying the weakness as what you mention..the teachers... why do the gov dump the whole ppsmi away.
Isn't it that a solution would have been found only when the problem is being identified..?
Perhaps this may be another good read....
http://azlyrahman-illuminations.blogspot.com/2009/07/english-can-be-language-of-malaysian.html

With that amount being thrown to get teachers to teach english now , I would say that lesser amount may be needed to upgrade the proficiency of the current teachers since most of them may be from the bahasa medium during their schooldays.

bobkee
10-07-2009, 11:34 AM
Why PPSMI? Unfortunately, its the most convenient scapegoat.

Its also generally easier to put a price tag to a programme than it is for human capital development. Must find the path of least resistance and most susceptible to cari makan opportunities mah :D

bobkee
10-07-2009, 12:02 PM
A good perspective on why use BM ..

http://amirmu.blogspot.com/2009/07/most-sensible-thing-i-read-about-ppsmi.html

silver_bird
10-07-2009, 12:24 PM
DO YOU SUPPORT THE GOVERNMENT'S DECISION TO TEACH MATHS & SCIENCE IN BAHASA MALAYSIA?

Submit your Vote :-

http://chedet.co.cc/chedetblog/2009/07/the-teaching-of-maths-and-scie.html

Poll result as of now :-
Agree = 19 %
Disagree = 81%

Carolrasiah
10-07-2009, 01:46 PM
http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/articles/4sjobs/Article/index_html
Read it

Carolrasiah
10-07-2009, 02:22 PM
http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2009/7/10/nation/4294726&sec=nation

He is talking nonsense – most locally trained doctors don’t even know what Osteogenesis Imperfecta is! Why? Cos all the specialist from overseas were lecturing in English!! This is really sickening. :confused:

bugbear
10-07-2009, 05:03 PM
http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2009/7/10/nation/4294726&sec=nation

He is talking nonsense – most locally trained doctors don’t even know what Osteogenesis Imperfecta is! Why? Cos all the specialist from overseas were lecturing in English!! This is really sickening. :confused:
That is not a fair statement Carolrasiah. I learn BM in school and there is no PPSMI during my time. I know what Osteogenesis Imperfecta mean. ;)

Fang Su
10-07-2009, 07:09 PM
I thought it was just popular because it a great tragedy with violence, lust, deceit (external and internal), mental issues, and more violence. And it is a bit funny too.

Typical Shakespeare tragedy. In ICPU our students look at Hamlet and Macbeth, along with a few other important books - Death of a Salesman and the Great Gatsby are quite popular.

Cheers, m

No. Who needs great tragedies with violence, lust, deceit and mental issues from foggy old books? You get enough from IP Mun to Transformers and even Harry Potter. Or for that matter, just go read the news - especially on politics in Malaysia (which contains violence, lust, deceit, mental issues PLUS comedy and brainless stupidity).

The real challenge is to teach (and learn) William Shakespeare without the aid of video and audio. Then you need a great teacher with great imagination who is able to make every single verse comes alive as was the case during Shakespeare's time.

Jennylim
11-07-2009, 12:47 AM
1. How many of you would strongly encourage your children to become a Math or Science teacher in a primary school instead of becoming a dentist, or a doctor, an engineer, pharmarcist, if they are really good in English, Math and Science?

2. How many of you know how teachers teaches your children in Math and Science in English, especially in secondary school? Have you heard abt students laughed at the way English were spoken by the teachers? Imaging what kind of English are the students learning from some of these teachers if they don't already learnt the language from their parents or English language specialist?

3. Do you know exactly what is taught in Math and Science during Primary school? If you take away these basic terms from a language, how are the children to express themselves when refer to basic Math and science related matters?

From my observation, the Math and science terms that are more technical and are closely related to Uni syllabus are mostly in secondary school, not primary school. In my opinion MCA's proposal is more appropriate for Malaysian.

4. Try speaking in your dialect or BM for a week without using any English words, then you know what is missing in your mother tongue. Perhaps you would understand why peoples want mother tongue to be their language or medium of instruction in Primary school.
(note: language is a system of communication which consists of a set of sounds and written symbols)

Obviously, using BM or Tamil or Mandarin as medium of instruction in Primary School would be a problem to foreigners whose mother tongue is a different language. It would also be a problem to Malaysian whose mother tongue is not one of these three languages. Fortunately, Malaysians are allowed to study in International Schools where medium of instruction is English. So, it is not the end of the road for people who speaks only English.

Dr M is getting old, he thinks all English speaking peoples are intelligent, no carpenters or maids or labourers in English speaking country! Or is he trying to find a scape goat for his failure? RM vs Sg Dollar traded at RM2.2 to SD1 was not because of his government but English?

RichLock
11-07-2009, 01:22 AM
[QUOTE=Jennylim] Fortunately, Malaysians are allowed to study in International Schools where medium of instruction is English. So, it is not the end of the road for people who speaks only English.

Sorry, this may not be the case. I brought my son to Australia to start school at Year one till he finished Year 12. Now I have retired and returned to Malaysia and I want my son to attend a local university. Unfortunately, he has to pass a Bahasa paper before he can graduate and that's the government regulation. In another word, he can never study in his own country.

bobkee
11-07-2009, 05:26 AM
[QUOTE=Jennylim] Fortunately, Malaysians are allowed to study in International Schools where medium of instruction is English. So, it is not the end of the road for people who speaks only English.

Sorry, this may not be the case. I brought my son to Australia to start school at Year one till he finished Year 12. Now I have retired and returned to Malaysia and I want my son to attend a local university. Unfortunately, he has to pass a Bahasa paper before he can graduate and that's the government regulation. In another word, he can never study in his own country.I honestly don't see why "unfortunate" would be the correct word to use in this context? All systems have their own required core subjects.

Study in the US and you'll find that the General Education subjects are required in your freshman year - ie. subjects like Art Appreciation, English et al, regardless of your eventual major. The UK requires evidence of competency in English, Australia requires Citizenship Studies, Japan requires evidence of competency in Japanese, China requires the same of Chinese as well as Socialism with Chinese Characteristics and Malaysia requires BM, Malaysian Studies and Moral Studies.

What is so unfortunate about having to learn one's own national language? If one intends to retain their Malaysian citizenship and benefit from the infrastructure brought about by the tax revenue of fellow Malaysian citizens, would it be too much to ask that they at least have a working knowledge of the national language, evidence by whatever benchmark is currently the norm?

Raikonen
11-07-2009, 08:32 AM
What is so unfortunate about having to learn one's own national language? If one intends to retain their Malaysian citizenship and benefit from the infrastructure brought about by the tax revenue of fellow Malaysian citizens, would it be too much to ask that they at least have a working knowledge of the national language, evidence by whatever benchmark is currently the norm?

Why is there a need to tie the citizenship and infrastructure with ability to learn BM? we pay taxes and tons of subsidies too u know...It's a personal freedom to want to learn BM or not...

Fang Su
11-07-2009, 08:41 AM
1. How many of you would strongly encourage your children to become a Math or Science teacher in a primary school instead of becoming a dentist, or a doctor, an engineer, pharmarcist, if they are really good in English, Math and Science?

2. How many of you know how teachers teaches your children in Math and Science in English, especially in secondary school? Have you heard abt students laughed at the way English were spoken by the teachers? Imaging what kind of English are the students learning from some of these teachers if they don't already learnt the language from their parents or English language specialist?

3. Do you know exactly what is taught in Math and Science during Primary school? If you take away these basic terms from a language, how are the children to express themselves when refer to basic Math and science related matters?

From my observation, the Math and science terms that are more technical and are closely related to Uni syllabus are mostly in secondary school, not primary school. In my opinion MCA's proposal is more appropriate for Malaysian.

4. Try speaking in your dialect or BM for a week without using any English words, then you know what is missing in your mother tongue. Perhaps you would understand why peoples want mother tongue to be their language or medium of instruction in Primary school.
(note: language is a system of communication which consists of a set of sounds and written symbols)

Obviously, using BM or Tamil or Mandarin as medium of instruction in Primary School would be a problem to foreigners whose mother tongue is a different language. It would also be a problem to Malaysian whose mother tongue is not one of these three languages. Fortunately, Malaysians are allowed to study in International Schools where medium of instruction is English. So, it is not the end of the road for people who speaks only English.

Dr M is getting old, he thinks all English speaking peoples are intelligent, no carpenters or maids or labourers in English speaking country! Or is he trying to find a scape goat for his failure? RM vs Sg Dollar traded at RM2.2 to SD1 was not because of his government but English?

Jenny. Excellent points. I agree.

tsd
11-07-2009, 08:42 AM
I think its not only about improving English, its more about being able to tap into the huge international knowledge base of Math and Science. Try google for any topic related to Math and Science on the internet in English or in Bahasa Malaysia. If we use Bahasa Malaysia I am afraid we will have very limited source of reference.

Why cant we just take Singapore Education model and use it. It seems to work pretty well. Sometimes it is okay to put aside pride for the sake of advancement.

RichLock
11-07-2009, 03:48 PM
Pay may be one of the main reasons why we are losing our professionals to foreign countries but could it be the language problem? True, we should know and learn our national language but to force to use it (or else ….) is another thing. This boils down to job satisfaction which is more important than better pay. How would you feel if you are asked to communicate and write reports in a language which you are no good at, day in and day out? Can you show your potential, expertise and knowledge of your job as well as you should? This will surely lead to stress, frustration, disappointment and will pack one’s bag to migrate at the first opportunity.

Carolrasiah
11-07-2009, 10:25 PM
That is not a fair statement Carolrasiah. I learn BM in school and there is no PPSMI during my time. I know what Osteogenesis Imperfecta mean. ;)
Maybe u do. then in UH it is a different story.

Sentinel
11-07-2009, 10:53 PM
Maybe u do. then in UH it is a different story.Have full trust Carol, they should know the difference between the gall bladder and the stones and they will remove the stones, not the bladder... :D

USJ27Resident
12-07-2009, 02:56 AM
Fortunately, Malaysians are allowed to study in International Schools where medium of instruction is English. So, it is not the end of the road for people who speaks only English.....

It could be the... for some!!

So... the rich and famous who can afford to pay... wud continue with improving their kids lives and lifestyles (in Intl Schools)... whereas the ones that cannot - can stay in local BM medium schools... :rolleyes:

My question... do these politician kids go to the SRK, SMK schools or do they go to boarding or international schools...?? Any way of getting the figures/facts of those that actually study in SRK/SMK?? Mebbe we all know the answers... when their kids speak with Australian, Bristish and American accents... :rolleyes:

Having Malay medium and English medium public schools is not a viable option and a waste of public funds... why? because you'd have empty Malay medium schools in urban areas and empty English medium schools in rural areas...

I still think blaming the student (in rural areas?) for not being able to cope is utter nonsense... what about urban students that struggle... they are only as good as the lessons taught to these student... by competent teachers...

if the teacher is not [competent]... then you have the results to show.!!

CCY
12-07-2009, 09:55 AM
if the teacher is not [competent]... then you have the results to show.!!
The bulk of these below 50yrs is most likely from 100% BM medium and to expect them to improve their inngerries would take double time n effort. The ppsmi isn't even completed one full cycle and it is chuck out after knowing the fault....the teachers incompetence. In fact there are sign that these favoured groups are showing sign of improving their inngerriss and that is worrying for the gov...

Sentinel
12-07-2009, 11:39 AM
The bulk of these below 50yrs is most likely from 100% BM medium and to expect them to improve their inngerries would take double time n effort. The ppsmi isn't even completed one full cycle and it is chuck out after knowing the fault....the teachers incompetence. In fact there are sign that these favoured groups are showing sign of improving their inngerriss and that is worrying for the gov...
And in his 100-days in office speech yesterday published by every known media, the newly-minted PM said the government listen to the people.... what a spin!

CCY
12-07-2009, 05:48 PM
And in his 100-days in office speech yesterday published by every known media, the newly-minted PM said the government listen to the people.... what a spin!
When a journey is made in the wide ocean exploring for new land and for months not sighting any ....then one fine morning and some harrowing choppy journey , land is sighted....then the captain says putar balik dan cari lain lagi....!!

Sentinel
12-07-2009, 07:36 PM
When a journey is made in the wide ocean exploring for new land and for months not sighting any ....then one fine morning and some harrowing choppy journey , land is sighted....then the captain says putar balik dan cari lain lagi....!!I read your post like 3-4 times and I am sorry I still cannot get what you are trying to say?

CS Chua
12-07-2009, 08:19 PM
I am one of the few who supports mother tongue education including teaching maths and science in the mother tongue of the students. I am agreeable with this change.

Even though the government is taking steps to improve the standard of English, it is insufficient. First and foremost, they must make getting a Pass in English subject compulsory for all major examinations. Secondly, they should designate English as the 2nd official language. That will go a long way to improve it.

Eastern Citizen
12-07-2009, 08:34 PM
I am one of the few who supports mother tongue education including teaching maths and science in the mother tongue of the students. I am agreeable with this change.

Even though the government is taking steps to improve the standard of English, it is insufficient. First and foremost, they must make getting a Pass in English subject compulsory for all major examinations. Secondly, they should designate English as the 2nd official language. That will go a long way to improve it.
While I truly respect your point of view, I also equally respectfully and humbly disagree with it. I truly think that in a more globalised environment, having the fluency of English in technocratic environment is a great advantage. Please don't get me wrong, I am not dissing BM nor am I dissing any of the "mother tongues" but I do feel that at this current moment in time, the dominant language of technology is English and if our people are proficient in "technical" English, I'm sure that will be a great advantage for our people.

Having said that, I do think that the problem is that there are many people in our country who do support the reversal of the teaching of Maths and Sciences in English and I guess that this is a rather populist decision taken by the Powers That Be (because the PTB truly believe that this is a vote winner).

bugbear
13-07-2009, 01:07 AM
While I truly respect your point of view, I also equally respectfully and humbly disagree with it. I truly think that in a more globalised environment, having the fluency of English in technocratic environment is a great advantage. Please don't get me wrong, I am not dissing BM nor am I dissing any of the "mother tongues" but I do feel that at this current moment in time, the dominant language of technology is English and if our people are proficient in "technical" English, I'm sure that will be a great advantage for our people.

Having said that, I do think that the problem is that there are many people in our country who do support the reversal of the teaching of Maths and Sciences in English and I guess that this is a rather populist decision taken by the Powers That Be (because the PTB truly believe that this is a vote winner).
I do concur with your view. Unfortunately, this is not so with the PTB.We the rakyat live and die with these decision all the time. To some of you here it is time to despair but I believe we can pray for our nation each to their own ways. When nothing else works, prayer does.

bobkee
13-07-2009, 03:46 AM
Personally I am partial towards the use of BM in primary school and then transitioning to English in the secondary levels when more advanced concepts are taught. Then again, I'm also partial towards the integration of vernacular schools into a single national school system PROVIDED that a compulsory third language is incorporated into the system.

That makes me an unpopular minority on all sides .. ROFL

Phres
13-07-2009, 10:38 AM
international schools will be the only english medium school in Malaysia after 2012, am i right? but how many ppl can afford to send their kids there? the only other option is to go for home study?

PDL
13-07-2009, 11:30 AM
From what I read, the report shows that there is a big gap in performance between the rural and urban students in PPSMI. The report also identified that the problem is that teachers are struggling to teach in english.
The objective is to narrow the gap.
There are 2 ways :
1) Difficult but with long-term benefits - Maintain PPSMI
Focus on improving the skills of teachers and also reward them with better remuneration package. Objective achieved, teaching profession improved and our children will have a global advantage.
2) Easy with short-term benefits - Reverse PPSMI
No need to spend money on current batch of teachers (they don't have to struggle anymore), spend money on new "imported" english teachers. Rural students will perform better, urban students can take it easy too. Our children's future ??? Not important-lah.

Reminds me of the "crab mentality". If you have seen crabs in a hole, you will understand. When some crabs who struggle and work hard tries to climb out of the hole, the others will climb on top of them and pull them down. End result, no crab gets out of the hole ! Guess they are all quite happy to stay in the hole. What a pity.

Sentinel
13-07-2009, 11:35 AM
A very interesting article "Chaining the Children of the Poor" by M. Bakri Musa related to the change of the medium of teaching Science and Mathematics, posted on YB Lim Kit Siang's blog...

http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/07/13/chaining-the-children-of-the-poor/

tsd
13-07-2009, 11:36 AM
<snip>
Reminds me of the "crab mentality". If you have seen crabs in a hole, you will understand. When some crabs who struggle and work hard tries to climb out of the hole, the others will climb on top of them and pull them down. End result, no crab gets out of the hole ! Guess they are all quite happy to stay in the hole. What a pity.

hehehe.. I like this crab story, but I think our crabs are different. The crabs already ouside the hole will kick any new crabs trying to come out from the hole back into the hole.

silver_bird
14-07-2009, 06:50 PM
MCA Wants Science, Mathematics In English For Secondary School

http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v5/news_lite.php?id=425278

Yet another flip-flop ?

Sugarfree
14-07-2009, 06:52 PM
MCA Wants Science, Mathematics In English For Secondary School. Yet another flip-flop ?if it's flip flopping for the better then i'm all for it. :D

silver_bird
14-07-2009, 08:23 PM
if it's flip flopping for the better then i'm all for it. :D
Ya, flop for English.
Hope good sense prevail.

Jennylim
15-07-2009, 01:03 AM
It could be the... for some!!

So... the rich and famous who can afford to pay... wud continue with improving their kids lives and lifestyles (in Intl Schools)... whereas the ones that cannot - can stay in local BM medium schools... :rolleyes:

!!

I think it is natural for 100% English -edu. person to think that there is only one way to better life, the English way that they are used to.

Similarly, those who knows more than one way to better life, would naturally disagreed to 'English only' way. I recalled a hawker with physical disability told me, "I have no degree, I don't know English, but I know my income is better than many graduates! " His children are studying in private secondary schools and one studying oversea.

I believe, if there is a will there is a way. Many local graduates (BM as medium of instruction in Uni) have done very well oversea. So, for those who can not afford Int'l. schools, you would find your ways just like others.

RichLock, there are many private Uni here that offer foreign degrees, why don't you ask around, or attend education fairs?

USJ27Resident
15-07-2009, 01:18 AM
My question... do these politician kids go to the SRK, SMK schools or do they go to boarding or international schools....
Anyone care to answer this question ???

Similarly, those who knows more than one way to better life, would naturally disagreed to 'English only' way. I recalled a hawker with physical disability told me, "I have no degree, I don't know English, but I know my income is better than many graduates! " His children are studying in private secondary schools and one studying oversea.
Becos HE worked hard enough - wanting to send them to private schools and overseas... why? Probably because he believed that his kids would better themselves with a better education at private and overseas institutions. Yes... he made more money that graduates, if that was the argument - then why send his kids overseas... the kids shud have just joined him at being hawkers...
Sigh.... why bother, no matter what we say or do... once the freaking Govt decides... we just follow... or (hope to... ) change them in the next voting process

USJ27Resident
15-07-2009, 09:09 AM
Hi all...

Just got this via sms:

Education Ministry is calling on parents to give their feedback on the PPSMI being reverted to BM. Agree or disagree...

Please call 03-77237070 with your feedback. Please "cut n paste" and forward to friends, if necessary.

I've called them and am pleasantly surprised with their conduct and manner the call was taken. Feedbacks can be in Eglish or BM.

Regards. :)

Richard Poh
15-07-2009, 11:01 AM
Hi all...

Just got this via sms:

Education Ministry is calling on parents to give their feedback on the PPSMI being reverted to BM. Agree or disagree...

Please call 03-77237070 with your feedback. Please "cut n paste" and forward to friends, if necessary.

I've called them and am pleasantly surprised with their conduct and manner the call was taken. Feedbacks can be in Eglish or BM.

Regards. :)
Nation of "U TURN " .

RichLock
16-07-2009, 02:47 AM
RichLock, there are many private Uni here that offer foreign degrees, why don't you ask around, or attend education fairs?
I have been checking with a couple of administrative staff or counsellors of private universities in Subang Jaya area. They all confirmed that in order to get a degree (even offered by foreign uni’s) in Malaysia, the student must pass the Bahasa test. He/she may have passed all the other papers but failed in Bahasa, he/she will still be unable to get his/her degree! FYI, this ruling only applies to Malaysian citizens although it used to apply to everyone at one time. To all those caring parents who are thinking of sending their children overseas to study from very young (like yours truly – my son started schooling in Australia from Year One), make sure he or she has Bahasa lessons too. In my case, it was the parent who made the mistake and the innocent child has to pay for his dad's mistake with his future!

USJ27Resident
16-07-2009, 06:12 AM
do you know that since the MoE's recent ruling - there has been a surge of inquiries about sending kids to international schools !!

These schools never had it so easy man.... like moths to a flame...

personally, have sent 3 emails out - NONE REPLIED !! :rolleyes:

AllUrban
16-07-2009, 11:41 AM
wishing that my college had been faster on the uptake.

Now there is a Sunway International School using a Canadian curriculum with almost 4 years of secondary school available :eek:

Cheers, m

QuietStorm
16-07-2009, 12:21 PM
Now there is a Sunway International School using a Canadian curriculum with almost 4 years of secondary school available :eek: Hi, Allurban. How does this work? Can any local kids be enrolled there? What about BM? Is it taught there?

bobkee
16-07-2009, 12:47 PM
Note that there are some conditions for Malaysian citizens to be accepted into International Schools:


One of the student's parents is not a Malaysian citizen; or


The student has studied overseas for a minimum of three years either at a primary or secondary level.
International Schools are also limited to opening not more than 40% of their enrolment capacity to Malaysian citizens.

Details on this policy can be viewed from this circular (http://www.moe.gov.my/upload/galeri_awam/pekeliling/2007_BTMK_15_1458_8540.pdf) from the Ministry of Education.

QuietStorm
16-07-2009, 12:54 PM
Bobkee, thanks for the info.

AllUrban
16-07-2009, 01:09 PM
Hi, Allurban. How does this work? Can any local kids be enrolled there? What about BM? Is it taught there?As BobKee said, there are limits on the number of students enrolled and how to enroll them.

I believe that BM is one of the required courses from the Malaysian Quality Association (MQA or LAN) for Malaysian students so they would have the available course.

visit sis.edu.my (I think that is their site) for more info.

Cheers, m

USJ27Resident
17-07-2009, 09:41 AM
MCA Wants Science, Mathematics In English For Secondary School
http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v5/news_lite.php?id=425278
Yet another flip-flop ?

MCA,parents can have their own views (for all I care!) but MY DECISION STANDS... (http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2009/7/17/nation/4340018&sec=nation)

Looks like this champion of Rural Affairs IS deaf to our pleas and arguments... :rolleyes:

QuietStorm
17-07-2009, 10:39 AM
I believe that BM is one of the required courses from the Malaysian Quality Association (MQA or LAN) for Malaysian students so they would have the available course. Visit sis.edu.my (I think that is their site) for more info.Thanks, bro. :)

besitai2007
17-07-2009, 11:49 AM
Unfortunately a lot of international schools do not provide the quality education that you hope for. Out-sourcing of English speaking and competent teachers is always an issue. Believe me I was a principal of a private school offering international certificates before. Check the school's record before you enrol your kids.

QuietStorm
17-07-2009, 11:50 AM
[B]Education Ministry is calling on parents to give their feedback on the PPSMI being reverted to BM. Agree or disagree...I just called them. Done in 3 minutes. :)

ginaphan
17-07-2009, 12:33 PM
Called the number today and the impression I get is that they just want a Yes/No answer from us.
All other discussions are not recorded. That's the impression I get.

Big M
17-07-2009, 03:16 PM
I doubt the Ed. Ministry will make any change based on the feedback from its hotline. They just listen to your call to assuage any angry parent. We should try to rally behind certain group or influencial person in favour of PPSMI, like PAGE or Tun Mahathir. Another way is to get all the schools' PIBG to make their stand on the PPSMI policy. If Dong Zong and the Malay nationalist groups had not pressured the Government, I don't think the latter would change the PPSMI policy just by looking at one set of the full 6-year cycle result and after spending billions RM.

bobkee
18-07-2009, 03:28 AM
Thanks, bro. :)You might find this post I made a while ago useful for planning your son's education ..

&raquo; Demystifying Post Secondary Education Options (http://www.bobjots.org/2008/06/demystifying-post-secondary-education-options/)

Cheers.

christine lee
18-07-2009, 07:30 AM
What about private schools which follow both local and international curriculum like Sri KL?

"Sri KL Secondary School follows both the local KBSM curriculum and the International General Certificate of Secondary Education (IGCSE), commonly known as O’levels".

In this case, you don't need to fulfill criteria of getting into an international school?