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tsd
12-03-2009, 05:41 PM
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2009/3/12/nation/20090312132331&sec=nation

wow, looks like Malaysians are getting smarter everyday :) or something has gone wrong here.

Fabe18
12-03-2009, 05:48 PM
but how come I always hear ppl complaining that graduates who turned up for job interviews are pure disgrace. Poor english and some don't even bother to dress up properly.

Sentinel
12-03-2009, 05:54 PM
but how come I always hear ppl complaining that graduates who turned up for job interviews are pure disgrace. Poor english and some don't even bother to dress up properly.True... true... some show their cleavage too during interviews... dunno where they learn this from?

Amongst the early questions asked during interviews are not work-related but:

i. your company work on Saturday or not?
ii. how many annual leave ah?
iii. company got car loan or not ah?
iv. handphone can claim ah?
v. company got annual party or not ah?

Fabe18
12-03-2009, 06:00 PM
True... true... some show their cleavage too during interviews... dunno where they learn this from?

Amongst the early questions asked during interviews are not work-related but:

i. your company work on Saturday or not?
ii. how many annual leave ah?
iii. company got car loan or not ah?
iv. handphone can claim ah?
v. company got annual party or not ah?

Show cleavage? they watched too many movies aledi... aren't they too young for Basic Instinct?

Did anyone ask what's maximum MC they can take?? hahahah

USJ27Resident
12-03-2009, 09:07 PM
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2009/3/12/nation/20090312132331&sec=nation

wow, looks like Malaysians are getting smarter everyday :) or something has gone wrong here.

when your questions are made simpler... the more fellas would get them right... doesn't take a genius to relate to this fact.

betul tak! betuuuuuuuuuuuuul !

bslee
12-03-2009, 09:11 PM
Hehehe..all in good time, I expect 90% students to have lots of A's. If don't score A's...how ah?.

USJ27Resident
12-03-2009, 09:24 PM
Hehehe..all in good time, I expect 90% students to have lots of A's. If don't score A's...how ah?.

hehe... will score... then go overseas and only to major in "subsidised family plannings...." :rolleyes:

how many doctors and engineers have you known - gone overseas on PSD scholarships... spend twice the time there [ get married ] have kids and come back.... i have seen...LOTS!! :rolleyes:

gark
12-03-2009, 11:22 PM
SPM must be getting easier and easier, so the standard must be falling so many many A's also useless as everyone also got many A's :rolleyes:

tsd
12-03-2009, 11:23 PM
the education system should increase its standard so that not so many people gets straight A's.

bslee
12-03-2009, 11:30 PM
the education system should increase its standard so that not so many people gets straight A's.
Errrrr.... then there's a likelihood that 90% could start collecting "F"s, not one two or three, but many... then how ah?
Geee!.. Malaysia got many very complex problems lah!..

tsd
13-03-2009, 12:20 AM
hopefully not for the sake of showing how good our local schools are, where every year they produce more and more straight A's students.

praetor
13-03-2009, 12:37 AM
When I was doing my SPM a few years back, I had 6 A's and the top student at the time only had 11A's. So I was not that stupid.. But now the top student have 22A's. Does it mean I'm an idiot?

Subsidized family planning? How come no one ever gave me that? My parents told me if I wanted to get a girlfriend, it was going to come out of my pocket and not one penny from them. And I made a rough calculation of how much it cost to get married and raise a child from birth to 21 years old, it was roughly about RM 1.5 million excluding inflation. that turned me off from the thought of a relationship... Now I know where all hardearned taxpayers money go to.. to babies born abroad in the guise of scholarships.. I should listened to my parents and work hard to get a "scholarship" too :p :D too bad I did not do that before.

bslee
13-03-2009, 12:48 AM
Does it mean I'm an idiot?

Not entirely. Its bahlul, tolol, bangang, goblok... :D :D
I think I'm already an imbecile compared to them. I didn't even score any A's.

Sentinel
13-03-2009, 01:11 AM
My parents told me if I wanted to get a girlfriend, it was going to come out of my pocket and not one penny from them. And I made a rough calculation of how much it cost to get married and raise a child from birth to 21 years old, it was roughly about RM 1.5 million excluding inflation. that turned me off from the thought of a relationship...

Your parents told you GIRLFRIEND / WIFE = $$$$$ and you decided against it? I think your parents were telling you "to stand on your own feet" in a relationship but you yourself see the $$$$ and got turned off....

tsd
13-03-2009, 01:39 AM
When I was doing my SPM a few years back, I had 6 A's and the top student at the time only had 11A's. So I was not that stupid.. But now the top student have 22A's. Does it mean I'm an idiot?

Subsidized family planning? How come no one ever gave me that? My parents told me if I wanted to get a girlfriend, it was going to come out of my pocket and not one penny from them. And I made a rough calculation of how much it cost to get married and raise a child from birth to 21 years old, it was roughly about RM 1.5 million excluding inflation. that turned me off from the thought of a relationship... Now I know where all hardearned taxpayers money go to.. to babies born abroad in the guise of scholarships.. I should listened to my parents and work hard to get a "scholarship" too :p :D too bad I did not do that before.

hahaha.... compared to the number of A's , most likely all the people from the generations are idiots... wonder how many A's all our cabinet ministers and MPs has ?

bslee
13-03-2009, 01:48 AM
wonder how many A's all our cabinet ministers and MPs has ?
Just observe the behavior at the Dewan. What does that tell everyone?

praetor
13-03-2009, 02:12 AM
Hoi monyet duduk!!! Biadap!! Kalau jantan berdiri!! Bocor? Parliament? What Parliament?? :rolleyes: ;)

Aiyah.. How to survive with my meagre salary? Pay house loan, pay car loan and then have to feed the car and myself=making ends meet with minimal luxury. Stand on my own two feet in a relationship I will but have to wait for the right girl also mah...

But when I think of the SPM results.. How did they actually do it?? Poor kids have to study till their circuits gets blown to pieces. I just pray that they actually have a life when they are over the study time-frame.

Peace.

bslee
13-03-2009, 02:28 AM
Hoi monyet duduk!!! Biadap!! Kalau jantan berdiri!! Bocor? Parliament? What Parliament?? :rolleyes: ;)


Sometimes I think back when in school, however rowdy we were as kids, we'd never utter or dare do the same in class, even if teacher wasn't around.
They're unequalled as far as I can see! Its shocking! very shocking!

Sentinel
13-03-2009, 03:52 AM
My niece got 16As lah.... aiyoh, I feel so stoopid lah since I got only 3 distinctions at Form 5 and only took 8 subjects... how come nowadays they do 16 subjects ah? Where got life, man?

AllUrban
13-03-2009, 11:07 AM
My niece got 16As lah.... aiyoh, I feel so stoopid lah since I got only 3 distinctions at Form 5 and only took 8 subjects... how come nowadays they do 16 subjects ah? Where got life, man? that is their life now...chasing grades and for what purpose...

Exams and learning in Malaysia only focus on knowledge.

Thinking/Inquiry? Nope, no time for questions...teacher probably cannot/will not answer anyways.

Communication? Clearly not an important/valued.

Application ... who needs real skills & applied knowledge when the real goal is to work in an air conditioned office, dressing nicely, making as much money and doing as little work as possible.

They work so hard and study for 16 papers but they only learn 1/4 of the skills that they need. They can answer questions on exams but can they demonstrate their knowledge in any other way?

That's not the life for my kids either.

Cheers, m

besitai2007
13-03-2009, 11:52 AM
It's amazing that our students can now score so many As! During my school days, scoring all As (8 max at that time) placed you among the elite group. People looked upon you with awe. But the As didn't make us good thinkers. We were rote learners, i.e. we regurgitated memorised facts mainly. I found that it was an advantage during the first two years in an overseas university when such knowledge and ability were advantages. In medicine where you need to store tons of information in your brain cells, this ability may be an advantage. In the third and fourth year of degree programs where we need to think and do our own honours projects, rote learning students were at a disadvantage. I learned to think then. Can our 16As students do that I wonder?

With so many students having straight As now, I wonder whether we will be producing future Einsteins or Stephen Hawkins in the country..or just a walking data storage freak?

kwchang
13-03-2009, 12:27 PM
Apologies tendered if my observations are off the mark

My take on this is simply that these certificate-chasers are simply taking a lot of simpler side courses to augment their number of A's. Assuming they are in the top science class, these students just enrol for the subjects taken by Arts stream students for example English for Science (I believe there are different levels of English tests).

In my time (that would be more than 30 years ago!), all of us in Form 5 Science 1 were signed up for Health Science which is basically a subject for the Arts stream. Since we were already doing Biology, Health Science was a piece of cake - we didn't even study for it and the A was ensured since we were already doing Biology at a much higher level.

So now you know how they do that magic with the string of A's.
Does that have any real value? I think not. The most important subjects counted when they apply for their University entrance would only center around the 5 to 8 core subjects anyway.

coleslaw
13-03-2009, 12:46 PM
chang,
you are correct and the english papers is marked twice. one is local and another called 1119 ( if i remembered right) is marked independently. so on the spm results..one would have 2 grading against the english papers..i've seen students with A1 ( local marking) in english, scored C in 1119. and one or two do not have the 1119 results shown. which means they have failed!!!

irisbaggins
13-03-2009, 02:02 PM
I've recently hired a part time teacher. She scored 9As in the result....but can't even put simple words into a sentence. Spoken language was so bad. She was so shy even to speak to me....and at the back of my head I tot she was just an average student....but since yesterday I dare not speak to her as I feel like I'm very dumb.....

Has the exams became easier or what?

AllUrban
13-03-2009, 02:13 PM
Apologies tendered if my observations are off the mark

My take on this is simply that these certificate-chasers are simply taking a lot of simpler side courses to augment their number of A's. Assuming they are in the top science class, these students just enrol for the subjects taken by Arts stream students for example English for Science (I believe there are different levels of English tests).

In my time (that would be more than 30 years ago!), all of us in Form 5 Science 1 were signed up for Health Science which is basically a subject for the Arts stream. Since we were already doing Biology, Health Science was a piece of cake - we didn't even study for it and the A was ensured since we were already doing Biology at a much higher level.

So now you know how they do that magic with the string of A's.
Does that have any real value? I think not. The most important subjects counted when they apply for their University entrance would only center around the 5 to 8 core subjects anyway.Some students will also take courses in the same stream e.g. Biology + Chemistry + Physics + General Science as well. Yeah, basically they are trying to pad their CV by taking more courses, and getting more A's.

I padded a bit by adding arts courses on top of a full set of science courses...finished secondary school with 35 credits (more than the 30 required) over 5 years. I know some people who got 36 credits over 5 years meaning they took 8 classes per year for the 2nd-5th year.

Of course, in Ontario it is the whole course that counts, not just the exam...so padding must be done lightly. Generally we would prefer the easier courses (we called them "bird courses") but we would also take them just for interests sake.

It must have had an effect on me because I changed from forensic science to natural science to economics/history in university and then I got a teaching degree. I finished university with 22 credits (graduation requires 20) and took courses that included forensic science, geology, economics, calculus, various history etc.

But industry and universities and experience (I teach these kids) make it clear that they dont have the total package. They have the knowledge but they cannot demonstrate it.
I've recently hired a part time teacher. She scored 9As in the result....but can't even put simple words into a sentence. Spoken language was so bad. She was so shy even to speak to me....and at the back of my head I tot she was just an average student....but since yesterday I dare not speak to her as I feel like I'm very dumb.....

Has the exams became easier or what?Iris, please dont be afraid. Speak up if you have a concern. The students ... they deserve a good, confident, prepared, organized teacher. If this person doesnt meet expectations she has to shape up or ship out. Fortunately, kids learn fast so she can probably be trained if the willingness is there.

Cheers, m

Erino
13-03-2009, 02:21 PM
Hoi monyet duduk!!! Biadap!! Kalau jantan berdiri!! Bocor? Parliament? What Parliament?? :rolleyes: ;)

Aiyah.. How to survive with my meagre salary? Pay house loan, pay car loan and then have to feed the car and myself=making ends meet with minimal luxury. Stand on my own two feet in a relationship I will but have to wait for the right girl also mah...

But when I think of the SPM results.. How did they actually do it?? Poor kids have to study till their circuits gets blown to pieces. I just pray that they actually have a life when they are over the study time-frame.

Peace.

i suspect they have a triple quod-core super advanced civilization processor in their brain :D

Sentinel
13-03-2009, 03:03 PM
Why trouble themselves and take so many papers when what really matters, as KWChang has stated, only a few core papers are considered.

Aiyoh, must be parental pressure lah... better to go catch fighting fish, pluck rambutan, make catapult, play police-and-thief, play rounders lah... no wonder so many dunno how to ride bicyle... 16As summore!

During rainy season, when the river swell up, go play swing like Tarzan and Jane and swim in the river lah, collect orange or purple-colored clay and make all kinds of figurines (plus some naughty objects too.... ha ha!) those were really good and fun days... so carefree!

Despite all these heroics & extracurricular activities we organize 'secretly' among our gang, still got 3 distinctions at MCE level, progress to do HSC, got 4 principals and a subsid pass, enter university, got 2nd class Upper honors summore... where got headache?

Maybe collect 1 public caning along the way but that was something only I got in the whole of 1976, nobody else can claim the same... so? Recently met the headmaster who whacked me at the public caning at Sungai Ujong Club in Lake Gardens, Seremban, had a long cool glass of beer with him, on me with thanks Sir!

charis14
13-03-2009, 07:32 PM
The number of As for UPSR, PMR and SPM have been progressively increasing over the years. It helps bring joy to more families. It also helps Ministry of Education achieve their KPIs. This win-win arrangement can be easily achieved through reducing the marks to achieve an A. The problem of securing a job in the real world is left to Human Resource Ministry.

orchipalar
14-03-2009, 12:51 AM
Err buddies...here are the grading system between Form 1 to Form 3...
of Secondary Kebangsaan School...

Markah 75-100 Gred A Cemerlang
Markah 60-74 Gred B Kepujian
Markah 50-59 Gred C Baik
Markah 40-49 Gred D Mencapai tahap penguasaan minimum
Markah <39 Gred E Tidak mencapai tahap menguasaan minimum

The grading system on SPM...terbuka.

75-100 Gred 1A Cemerlang
70-74 Gred 2A Cemerlang
65-69 Gred 3B Kepujian
60-64 Gred 4B Kepujian
55-59 Gred 5C Kepujian
50-54 Gred 6C Kepujian
45-49 Gred 7D Lulus
40-44 Gred 8E Lulus
<39 Gred 9G Gagal

How different were these as compared to the early years
in 60s...70s...80s...? :confused:

kwchang
14-03-2009, 01:20 AM
Orchie,

In the early 70's the Form 5 grading has 9 levels just like the ones you showed.

For Malaysian Certificate of Education (MCE)
Grade 1 & 2 = Distinction
Grade 3 to 6 = Credit
Grade 7 & 8 = Pass
Grade 9 = Fail

In the same exam, we could get the equivalent in the British General Certificate of Education (GCE) which is the O-Level
Grades 1 to 6 = O-Level Pass
Grades 7 to 8 = O-Level Fail

By the way, the marks that qualify for the different grades were never really made known to us. It is probably not very different from how the grades are given today for the SPM.

For those interested to know, only students who obtained Division 1 in the MCE could proceed to Form 6 (which is not in fashion today) and even if you scored all distinctions for the academic subjects but if you only obtained a pass for the English paper, your whole MCE is only considered Division 2 and the student was not eligible to go on to Form 6.

jasonbhlee
14-03-2009, 08:47 AM
Err buddies...here are the grading system between Form 1 to Form 3...
of Secondary Kebangsaan School...

Markah 75-100 Gred A Cemerlang
Markah 60-74 Gred B Kepujian
Markah 50-59 Gred C Baik
Markah 40-49 Gred D Mencapai tahap penguasaan minimum
Markah <39 Gred E Tidak mencapai tahap menguasaan minimum

The grading system on SPM...terbuka.

75-100 Gred 1A Cemerlang
70-74 Gred 2A Cemerlang
65-69 Gred 3B Kepujian
60-64 Gred 4B Kepujian
55-59 Gred 5C Kepujian
50-54 Gred 6C Kepujian
45-49 Gred 7D Lulus
40-44 Gred 8E Lulus
<39 Gred 9G Gagal

How different were these as compared to the early years
in 60s...70s...80s...? :confused:


Hmmm....I had the impression that the grading system depends on the level of difficulty of the paper. This year for Grade 1A , score 75-100. If the following year, paper becomes harder, normally they will lower the score for the same grading......no?

Fabe18
14-03-2009, 09:25 AM
75 can aledi get 1A???

witprob
14-03-2009, 10:02 AM
Err buddies...here are the grading system between Form 1 to Form 3...
of Secondary Kebangsaan School...

Markah 75-100 Gred A Cemerlang
Markah 60-74 Gred B Kepujian
Markah 50-59 Gred C Baik
Markah 40-49 Gred D Mencapai tahap penguasaan minimum
Markah <39 Gred E Tidak mencapai tahap menguasaan minimum

The grading system on SPM...terbuka.

75-100 Gred 1A Cemerlang
70-74 Gred 2A Cemerlang
65-69 Gred 3B Kepujian
60-64 Gred 4B Kepujian
55-59 Gred 5C Kepujian
50-54 Gred 6C Kepujian
45-49 Gred 7D Lulus
40-44 Gred 8E Lulus
<39 Gred 9G Gagal

How different were these as compared to the early years
in 60s...70s...80s...? :confused:


Is the above SPM grading system at the school or actual SPM exam?

I was told there are students who do poorly in in school and obtained 1A in the SPM exam. Could it be the SPM grading system is lower?

mick123
14-03-2009, 10:05 AM
if my memory serves me correctly, in my school days, the scoring for the school exams was
A1 : 85-100
A2 : 75-84
C3 : 70-74
and so on. not sure if this scoring was applicable in SPM back then as the marking system was not made known. but we already saluted our friends who scored 4As and above out of the 8 subjects.

if now >70 gets you an A, no wonder the number of students scoring As has increased or either that students are getting smarter or the standard has dropped. no doubt there are many bright students out there but if the system is so hyped out about churning out straight As students of so many subjects, then something is strange somewhere....

Fabe18
14-03-2009, 10:15 AM
if my memory serves me correctly, in my school days, the scoring for the school exams was
A1 : 85-100
A2 : 75-84
C3 : 70-74
and so on. not sure if this scoring was applicable in SPM back then as the marking system was not made known. but we already saluted our friends who scored 4As and above out of the 8 subjects.

if now >70 gets you an A, no wonder the number of students scoring As has increased or either that students are getting smarter or the standard has dropped. no doubt there are many bright students out there but if the system is so hyped out about churning out straight As students of so many subjects, then something is strange somewhere....

I think my school had similar marking scheme too... Really make you work hard for A's...
Getting A2 also sometimes damn happy aledi...

charis14
14-03-2009, 10:56 AM
The process of 'bringing added joy to parents (and teachers)' can be achieved through (a)inserting some ridiculously simple gift questions and (b)adjustment of grading system. This applies for UPSR, PMR and SPM. However, SPM Chinese, which sees very few As, is an exception resulting in some students dropping this subject to secure straight As.

MasterQ
14-03-2009, 03:19 PM
For those interested to know, only students who obtained Division 1 in the MCE could proceed to Form 6 (which is not in fashion today) and even if you scored all distinctions for the academic subjects but if you only obtained a pass for the English paper, your whole MCE is only considered Division 2 and the student was not eligible to go on to Form 6.
I don't know about private schools but during my days including Chang's days, those entering Form 6 in the government must have the best 6 subjects aggregrates to be under 24 based on the scores stated by Chang. Though a Christian, I nearly went to the temple to thank God for a place in Form 6 in a government school at that time!

Only 30 out of the 270 candidates in my school qualified and went on to Form 6. This is also very true today just that today, 240 out of 270 qualified for Form 6 but 30 actually took up the offer. The rest chose other paths to pursue their higher education. And I blamed it on the schools (some with vested interest) which today open their doors to external private colleges and universities to do their education roadshows in the schools under the guise of career talks but at the end of the day somehow indoctrinate our kids that STPM is damned difficult to pass let alone score As and it is so easy to secure a place in their A level classes. And of course also studying in private institute of higher learning is fun fun fun and boy meet girl and vice versa opportunity and vices included. They never mention about a big hole is burnt in their parents pocket.

I was told more than 70% of SJ/USJ students eligible for Form 6 in SMKs reject the offers. It gives the parents the financial headache as A level education is easily RM 20K + whereas SMK is free. Let's not talk about comparative cost here as it is highly debatable.

besitai2007
15-03-2009, 08:27 AM
STPM and form 6 classes are not attractive options for a lot of SPM students who want to pursue an overseas degree. Years ago 6th form classes was the only option if you want to pursue a degree locally or overseas. Most colleges now offer students a one year "pre-degree" course after their SPM before they continue onto their overseas degree. They can do a 2 + 1, or sometimes do it all here. This is more attractive than slogging for two years in form 6 classes where some teachers do not teach you properly and expect the student to do "research" on their own. When I was Penolong Kanan I used to catch teachers not teaching their classes with the excuse that the students are "mature" enough to study on their own. Of course when students have limited funds to go college, they continue on in 6th form classes in order to enter our local universities. It's a matter of whether parents can provide the funds for a student to fulfill his/her dream.

Firebird
15-03-2009, 08:43 AM
Now I know where all hardearned taxpayers money go to.. to babies born abroad in the guise of scholarships.. I should listened to my parents and work hard to get a "scholarship" too :p :D too bad I did not do that before.But are you qualified kulit-ly? :p