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View Full Version : Do you want Arus Politik? - yr feedback please



isarahim
20-10-2008, 08:40 AM
Suggestion:

- Reinstate the Arus Politik title in the same position as before
- Make this title link directly to TindakMalaysia
- Investigate the difficulty of moving threads that turn "risky" over to TindakMalaysia alternatively place a lock on them with a link to a corresponding thread in TindakMalaysia

Let us also agree that this country needs much more politics at all levels; politics is about our future and not something "dirty" and that the only reason these type of measures are needed is because of the overpowering undemocratic power-structures that unfortunately are using force to stifle much needed political debate.

QuietStorm
20-10-2008, 08:45 AM
Brilliant suggestion. :)

compounding
20-10-2008, 10:02 AM
for me a political thread, like real life politics, will just make the forum plp divided into 2 camps.

its better this way. :)

keny
20-10-2008, 10:46 AM
i agree,no politic here.there are thousands of that forum,please go there.

here, where else can u find pro-PR and pro-BN people, discuss happily about shopping, DIY, maids, etc?

for years,i have seen there 2 groups tend to OUTSCREAM each other when talk about politic. they defend their group to death.don't let the mistake happen again.

make them go away!

USJ27Resident
20-10-2008, 11:03 AM
i agree,no politic here.there are thousands of that forum,please go there.

here, where else can u find pro-PR and pro-BN people, discuss happily about shopping, DIY, maids, etc?!!

LoL... so true... in a sense... if there is one thing them politicians are good at.. it is to so screw us all, into frenzied free-for-all yelling sessions!!! :D

Anyone wanna talk nonsense about who has the biggest, baddest maid in USJ ??? :D Just kidding... :p

kwchang
20-10-2008, 11:24 AM
I thank Isarahim for bringing this up

Now is the time for the members to voice their opinions of doing politics in the usj dot com Forum. In the past, I had said that there are many members who oppose the political postings - unfortunately, these musings are from people who are generally quiet on the Forum, so it is not evident that there was such an opinion.

Please use this opportunity to make your feelings known, afterall, this is your Forum.

For those who do not mind having politics, please indicate what level or dosage of political postings you would agree upon? Do remember that you may have a better deal at TindakMalaysia and I fully support PYWong's initiative... so why come back here?

For those of you who do not want to hear about politics, please say so or forever hold your peace.

ivanhow
20-10-2008, 11:59 AM
Critical thinking and examination is what we need to promote and encourage, not stereotype thinking. Malaysians should become more mature at discussions even at politics, mature enough to agree to disagree with how and why others think the way they think. There is a whole lot of things about the country that are intertwined with society and politics - it is difficult to separate them. Soceity cannot trive alone without involving the leaders of this country one way or another. Moulding of thots are critical to a growing nation. Stiffle thinking is stiffling growth and maturity. Just some food for thot.

my2sen,

Blue Jasmine
20-10-2008, 12:36 PM
LoL... so true... in a sense... if there is one thing them politicians are good at.. it is to so screw us all, into frenzied free-for-all yelling sessions!!! :D

Anyone wanna talk nonsense about who has the biggest, baddest maid in USJ ??? :D Just kidding... :p



Ha ha ha...maid story not so nice...i like the ghost story better...as Sugar was saying in the other thread or smtg like that. Other than that there is very limited worth reading stuff here..the political thread was good last time...not sure why it was removed...anyway since not much stuff to read now will spend more time at the chatterbox corner

Weezy
20-10-2008, 12:37 PM
i think discussions are always good provided ppl are responsible for what they post. and understand the consequences of spreading unsubstantiated gossips. some forums insist on veriffication of idetification. i think many will be put off by that and some may rethink their postings. not sure if that works for this forum. just sharing my experiences wih other forums.

amy_melanie
20-10-2008, 01:25 PM
Political discussions are good and in line with a more open and transparent country... The key word here being discussion. Everyone is entitled to their personal views, but when some try to force their views unto others, we have a problem.

In the spirit of discussion, we shouldn't perceive anyone disagreeing with us as making a personal attack on us. These petty fights and rumor mongering are a bane to the existance of the Arus Politik thread. I personally enjoy reading it, but it does get a bit tiresome when there is constant bickering. I kinda miss it though :rolleyes: we gotta learn to agree to disagree. In the words of the great Spiderman, "With great power comes great responsibility".

isarahim
20-10-2008, 01:25 PM
Take note again that my suggestion was about more effective channeling political debate to TindakMalaysia, not open it up in USJ.com again.

It seems that quite a few of the commentators above misunderstood this. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough.

isarahim
20-10-2008, 01:30 PM
i agree,no politic here.there are thousands of that forum,please go there.
here, where else can u find pro-PR and pro-BN people, discuss happily about shopping, DIY, maids, etc?
for years,i have seen there 2 groups tend to OUTSCREAM each other when talk about politic. they defend their group to death.don't let the mistake happen again.
make them go away!
I think you're entirely wrong here. Political maturity doesn't grow if debate is stifled.

The way that it should be, and the way that USJ.com.my would have worked in an environment of political maturity, is that discussions are topic based, issue based, not camp based.

Mature politics is about voting according to your views on issues. Not to have a life-time loyalty to a camp; in the same manner as you might choose to be a Chelsea or Liverpool supporter for the rest of your life.

In mature politics, people change party almost every election.

kwchang
20-10-2008, 01:36 PM
...Mature politics is about voting according to your views on issues..
Case in point and good example would be Colin Powell (a Republican) deciding to support Barack Obama (Democrat) and not supporting McCain, a fellow Republican.

amy_melanie
20-10-2008, 01:41 PM
Mature politics is about voting according to your views on issues. Not to have a life-time loyalty to a camp; in the same manner as you might choose to be a Chelsea or Liverpool supporter for the rest of your life.

In mature politics, people change party almost every election.

I totally agree. We should ask more hard hitting questions of our leaders and not give up till we get a satisfactory answer. We need to know their views on issues that are near and dear to us; economy, healthcare, education, etc. and see if their views and our views line up.

Malaysians in general need to focus on the issues and not get distracted by the various sleight of hand tactics that draw our attention away from them. Oops :eek: spouting a bit :D. Sorry Chang...

Shaneburger
20-10-2008, 02:04 PM
Take note again that my suggestion was about more effective channeling political debate to TindakMalaysia, not open it up in USJ.com again.

It seems that quite a few of the commentators above misunderstood this. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough.


Support isarahim's suggestion 100% ... Malaysia Boleh :D

irisbaggins
20-10-2008, 02:09 PM
Please reopen Arus Politik.
People must be given the freedom to debate.

robertec
20-10-2008, 02:37 PM
I have always been against political, racial and religious discussions; they are a sure fire for trouble. And I think that they have no place in a Community Forum.
These are 3 subjects that even if handled with kid gloves could potentially transgress into misunderstandings, quarrels, fights etc…

Everyone is responsible for the things they post becomes lip service, when in the heat of an argument in a discussion everyone wants to be heard, but nobody listens.

Being a moderator myself, I know the responsibilities that KWChang has, to constantly be on the lookout for posts that are inappropriate for the forum.

It may sound like a good idea to make a link from usj.com.my to www.tindakmalaysia.com (this link actually does not work because it goes directly into the root directory, as the website does not have an “Index” page), but is that not using the goodwill of usj.com.my built over a period of 10 years to promote another Forum?

I was quite surprised when it happened the first time in a thread, followed by an article on the Frontpage of usj.com.my. You mean we are going to do this on a permanent basis??
=
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isarahim
20-10-2008, 03:24 PM
I have always been against political, racial and religious discussions
Lumping 'political' together with 'racial' and 'religious' in the same bag is just the kind of stereotyping we do not need if this country is every going to mature. I don't think any serious political forum, may it be TindakMalaysia or anyone else, will want to have the 2 latter polluting the former.

Regarding USJ.com.my's goodwill, I cannot see any issue with directing postings - which it does not want for the sake of its goodwill - over to another forum whose focus is exclusively those postings which USJ.com.my does not want. And for that matter we can be reasonably sure that TindakMalaysia is fairly well moderated so as to avoid the 2 pollutants, while ensuring that political debate is focussing on issues and not become a battlefield for camp-wars. I would suggest that the goodwill for USJ.com.my could only gain from such a move.

isarahim
20-10-2008, 03:28 PM
Case in point and good example would be Colin Powell (a Republican) deciding to support Barack Obama (Democrat) and not supporting McCain, a fellow Republican.
Yes!

The proposed revokings and/or major revampings of ISA and OSA seem to be a local issues which cut right through party lines as well.

I would think there are actually quite a few of those.

blues
20-10-2008, 03:51 PM
It may sound like a good idea to make a link from usj.com.my to www.tindakmalaysia.com.............., but is that not using the goodwill of usj.com.my built over a period of 10 years to promote another Forum?


ya me wonder also?

firefox
20-10-2008, 03:55 PM
Freedom of speech is dead in this country..Malaysia has become a police state everything is being monitored. How hard we try to be mature in our views some will get carried away with emotions, it would be difficult for the mods to keep surveillance for 24 hrs.

Just facing reality this is my take and franky most of us would like this section resurrected..but there is price to pay if one is not careful and go out of line.

Btw Malaysia is not in the same league as USA. We are a different kettle of fish and miles apart in political maturity and we will never enjoy the democratic ways of USA...Never!

pepsi
20-10-2008, 04:14 PM
There a lot of decent people reading this forum and they don't want the peace disrupted by irresponsible people. But no matter how hard they try to look the other way and ignore the problem, it will somehow affect them...if not now...it would later.
A good example is the recent ISA detainees. I bet everyone had a rude shock when they saw the papers....(especially those who refuse to be politically involved and their only source of news are the newspapers ) How did they feel .....angry......frustrated....confused....scared.. ????..but surely they felt they had to speak to someone.....to make sense....on what is going on here ?Their lives are forever change ...rudely disrupted, whether they choose to look the other way or not.... :)

Sentinel
20-10-2008, 04:57 PM
No wonder Arus Politik was taken off the last time... even moderator Robertec himself confused between politics and racist / religious postings...LOL

Ferget it lah... usj.forum should, like Robertec said, sticks to its 10 year history of discussing best char siew fun, whose car got stolen, how to clean cat **** etc... LOL

No point having the thread if the mods are losing sleep and always afraid of being ISA'ed.

Just stick to 'gated communities' and USJ alert... and Tupai's "in love with bikes and in lust with .....LOL

ginaphan
20-10-2008, 05:14 PM
Everything is political. Even your thots although we don't admit it. And we have been trained to say any discussion on any form differences is political and is a no-no. Some say we are politically immature. Perhaps, we have also been spooked by the recent developments.

I agree.

But I cannot insist we bring back Arus Politik as the person who will be tasked with moderating it (or be responsible for our behaviour) is not me. Which is why I am always very careful about what I say here. It's not a matter of self censorship for fear of the authorities. It's a matter of who I may get into trouble if I let loose.

The link to another site is not working for me. I did not sign on to Tindak Malaysia. Cannot explain why. I enjoy discussing politics with people I discuss with on char siew fan, where to eat, what movies are good, how to repair toilets. That's what I call a community. We get updated to a variety of topics all in 1 place in usj.com.my

Perhaps one day, I'll join Tindak Malaysia.

Anyway, my position is consistent: I respect what the moderators decide to do as I recognise all the trouble and hardwork they have taken. Not being able to discuss politics here is not the end of the world although I do miss it as the discussions here are different from elsewhere. I do find the forum more sedated now.

It's sad but we can say "Another one bites the dust."

pepsi
20-10-2008, 05:16 PM
You know what I found most amusing, even when we tone down, even we don't discuss, to debate or agree to disagree, the political situation doesn't improve.
Malaysians of all race doesn't get less suspicious or less racist.
Keeping quite only, but simmering slowly....
Debating it responsibly, out in the open...would allow better understanding on how both sides feel.
But alas, there are irresponsible people or saboteurs that lurks .... :)

Sugarfree
20-10-2008, 05:17 PM
...i like the ghost story better...as Sugar was saying in the other thread or smtg like that. yeah, BJ..haha..i'm happy we're on the same wavelength...;)
anyway since not much stuff to read now will spend more time at the chatterbox cornerdo that, bj. :D

kwchang
20-10-2008, 05:40 PM
Wow, a lot of response BUT ... no answer to the question !

Can you people just say agree or not? I appreciate your view-points but I cannot figure out which side of the fence you people are standing.

Vixey
20-10-2008, 05:52 PM
Wow, a lot of response BUT ... no answer to the question !

Can you people just say agree or not? I appreciate your view-points but I cannot figure out which side of the fence you people are standing.

why not just start a poll?

SunwayK
20-10-2008, 07:08 PM
My late grandmother always tell me that not everything need to have a smart-aleck answer or snide remarks in the response.

Bring back Arus Politik to usj.forum - No.
Link to Tindak in usj.forum - No.

coleslaw
20-10-2008, 07:10 PM
Bring back Arus Politik to usj.forum - No.
Link to Tindak in usj.forum - No.
i agree...

jasonbhlee
20-10-2008, 07:33 PM
Wow, a lot of response BUT ... no answer to the question !

Can you people just say agree or not? I appreciate your view-points but I cannot figure out which side of the fence you people are standing.

Yes, bring back Arus PolitiK. Without it the forum has become tasteless. I can bet you that the number of hits has gone down the drain. Intellectual discussions has all gone from the forum. Now is more like Dear Thelma......even dear Thelma has more taste....

praetor
20-10-2008, 08:11 PM
Greetings.

1) Please bring back Arus Politik.
2) Please do not link us to TindakMalaysia.

Pax vorbiscum.

isarahim
20-10-2008, 08:47 PM
Freedom of speech is dead in this country..Malaysia has become a police state everything is being monitored. How hard we try to be mature in our views some will get carried away with emotions, it would be difficult for the mods to keep surveillance for 24 hrs.
With that gloomy perspective we might just as well migrate lah, or commit mass suicide or just cave in to the idea that we're just animals in Zoo Negara (with fully intended double-entendre of Negara).

I believe as long as there's life there's hope. This country can be good, may it take 20, 50 or 100 years.

isarahim
20-10-2008, 08:50 PM
Can you people just say agree or not? I appreciate your view-points but I cannot figure out which side of the fence you people are standing.
Haha KW, correct. Peeps are just too addicted to the fence; in fact a completely different fence; as in 'fencing'.

Raikonen
20-10-2008, 09:09 PM
Arus politik should have never been banned in the first place...just like the petrol price should have never been raised by 70 sens in the 1st place..Knee jerk reaction from godlike beings

ivanhow
20-10-2008, 10:10 PM
err.. kw dear:) ,
It is a challenge for you to single-handedly monitor and moderate the arus-politik thread if you really want to do bring back the thread. I know, it's tough for you alone to do it. It is a choice of taking up the challenge, against doing away with it. Perhaps, you can get ppl to help you to monitor, and moderate. There are quite some ppl in the forum who are capable of handling a tangential event. Maybe u can rope them in to help u. Difficult part is, they may not be available when most needed :D

Like it or not, politics is part of daily activity anywhere, even within a community... It has so much of impact on soceity, something we cannot ignore. It is the voice of the ppl at the grassroots. Without it is somewhat without life. There is no reason to clamp down on politics, race and religion if ppl are able to handle it maturely. The real issue is prevention of hijacking and sabotage. That's the difficult part. If you have enuf ppl to help u, it might be ok. But, the emphasis shud be on the author or the speaker.

Proabably, in order to help you make a decision, let forumers by a show of 'thumb', whether they can commit to be ur helper to keep watch over hijackers and saboteurs. Then you make an informed decision on whether u'll run into any risk of sleepless nights or not.

Again, at the end of the day, it's really your call. :)
Hope this helps.
Just my 2sen.

pepsi
20-10-2008, 11:03 PM
I would like very much for Arus Politik to be reinstated but I do not wish for the moderator to carry the "burden", not unless he is willing to accept the "risk".... :D or some solution to minimise the risk.
I don't think we, the forummers have the final say in the matter. :)
Yes, I am sure there will be RISKs involve, if the arus politik is reinstated.

fredkwan
20-10-2008, 11:41 PM
Reinstate "Arus Politik". It makes this community website much more interesting.

compounding
21-10-2008, 11:05 AM
it is a place where people will just throw acquisitions and slanders

if we open it, we're just helping them to spread acquisitions and slanders and we will be opening one more channel or another "house" for it

eg of acquisition or slanders

1)someone will say DSAI sodomise Saiful ..How can people like us know that he did it or not.?...nobody knows except Him and very few other. did we see it or invloved in it?

2) Najib involved with Altantuya... how can we know? did we see them in a room or something?...

but in arus politik..people will say it as if they are Najib or DSAI before they get bananed

however there are facts like Nik Aziz house is so humble relatively to other MBs ..which is ok cause you can see it in pictures and if u go to kelantan you can verify it easily.

it is not good to say something that we dont really know and spread slanders...and it happened a lot in the previous Arus Politik


I vote no.

firefox
21-10-2008, 11:25 AM
I agree with Ivanhow, at the end of the day only the moderator can decide on this, he is the one that has to vet this section and its his responsibility to see we dont cross the boundaries..has he the time to do it?

Whats your take on this now MR Mod.

ginaphan
21-10-2008, 11:50 AM
Ok, no fence sitting, eh? Somehow I can hear the Spice Girls - "tell me what you want, what you really, really want"

Bring back arus politik.

But I agree with the rest to say it's the MOD's call as he is the one that will be most affected. I don't have the time and dedication to help out so I cannot insist (even if I have some small delusion that I have the right to).

Firebird
21-10-2008, 11:57 AM
Bring it back. Period.

umadavid
21-10-2008, 12:00 PM
Bring it back...voting YES.

CS Chua
21-10-2008, 12:08 PM
I vote that kw do not bring it back for now as the political climate is not conducive currently. Wait until UMNO's General Assembly is over and all dust have settled. Perhaps after CNY 2009, bring back this controversial forum. It will be less sensitive then.

chsum
21-10-2008, 12:51 PM
err...bring back arus politik. I can't post in tindakmalaysia as my england not good enough. :(

Chia Hak Soon
21-10-2008, 01:10 PM
Without political discussion is like knowing what is going on and pretend that it is okay when it is affecting our lives and have everything shaft in to our throat. Why is it sensitive to one race when we are all malaysians.

pepsi
21-10-2008, 02:05 PM
I vote that kw do not bring it back for now as the political climate is not conducive currently. Wait until UMNO's General Assembly is over and all dust have settled. Perhaps after CNY 2009, bring back this controversial forum. It will be less sensitive then.
CSChua,we can't be sure whether the dust will settle by then.
What if the dust storm gets bigger and when we should have taken a stand but didn't. Would it be a little too late ?
Troublemakers and saboteurs will continue to stir **** for their own personal agenda and USJ.com may just be the medium to bring sanity and calm to all Malaysians (if we act responsibly by being fair and not take sides, BN or Pakatan) Even UMNO deserves a fair hearing, because not everyone is irredeemable.

CS Chua
21-10-2008, 02:35 PM
CSChua,we can't be sure whether the dust will settle by then.
What if the dust storm gets bigger and when we should have taken a stand but didn't. Would it be a little too late ?
Troublemakers and saboteurs will continue to stir **** for their own personal agenda and USJ.com may just be the medium to bring sanity and calm to all Malaysians (if we act responsibly by being fair and not take sides, BN or Pakatan) Even UMNO deserves a fair hearing, because not everyone is irredeemable.
pepsi, you are right. It may not settle down as we are in uncharted water. I suspect that the government will use a carrot and stick approach once their General Assembly is over.

Nonetheless, there are lots of opportunistic politicians around to stir up trouble in order to get some votes during this period. I am just thinking that we should not allow them to take advantage of us. Looking at past postings, it is a fact that some forumers are very emotional and disagreeable. It is one thing to disagree but to have a disagreeable attitude does not help anyone. I do not find such writings constructive. Many times it is full of hate, poison, racist and most of all, illogical and totally incomprehensible.

I guess we cannot stop these types of postings as this is a "free country" but it does not have to be now with the authorities looking for a reason to act. A wiser move is to postpone it until things cool down. But I guess not everybody agrees with that too but it is OK. :cool:

pepsi
21-10-2008, 06:17 PM
Nonetheless, there are lots of opportunistic politicians around to stir up trouble in order to get some votes during this period. I am just thinking that we should not allow them to take advantage of us. Looking at past postings, it is a fact that some forumers are very emotional and disagreeable. It is one thing to disagree but to have a disagreeable attitude does not help anyone. I do not find such writings constructive. Many times it is full of hate, poison, racist and most of all, illogical and totally incomprehensible.



Yes, those opportunistic politicians that want to win votes, can be quite a problem. They always raise racial issues to win votes but never promise anything else more constructive like improving Malaysians living conditions.

HTCHONG
21-10-2008, 09:03 PM
I would like very much for Arus Politik to be reinstated but I do not wish for the moderator to carry the "burden"....

Agree. Althought I avoid "talking" about Malaysia politics in this forum but I read almost all postings in the Arus Politik. For the moderator singlely shoulder the responsibility, frankly, it is not fair for him after all the postings don't come from him....my 2 cents.

pepsi
21-10-2008, 10:10 PM
Hey people, do you realise there are quite a few people we have not heard from for quite sometime (not longer actively participating since the AP was closed) based on their nicks :D
They migrated elsewhere and came back when their opinions were seeked.
Long time no hear....
Well one thing good came out of this thread, whether it successfully got AP reinstated or not, the good ole forummers came together and gave their views, when they were ask to make a stand.....yes or no (doesn't matter) :)

orchipalar
21-10-2008, 10:14 PM
Err buddies...Orchi shall say...NO to THE suggestionS...

Count the blessings...the decision to close Arus Politik has been
made on grounds that it would protect n be beneficial to the Owner...Adminstrator...
n Moderators...of Usj.com.my

In fact...count them again...as it has ALSO been a DONE deal...
for sakes of THE forumers...themselves.

fRaNkY
22-10-2008, 08:27 AM
Yes, bring it back.

Now :)

Its difficult to moderate w/o stepping on pple's toe.

kwchang
23-10-2008, 12:34 AM
Suggestion:

- Reinstate the Arus Politik title in the same position as before
- Make this title link directly to TindakMalaysia
- Investigate the difficulty of moving threads that turn "risky" over to TindakMalaysia alternatively place a lock on them with a link to a corresponding thread in TindakMalaysia


Thank you to all who volunteered your views.
There is a reason why we did not have a poll on the matter - because it is not a matter of votes because not all members will vote. If I had a poll, the results would be skewed as I expect most of the people who are for politics would vote yes. We know we have a silent majority ... and if they kept silent, we wouldn't know of their preference. Hence a poll would be unfair

I had read all your opinions and I take note that some members actually spoilt the existence of the Arus Politik channel by taking it for granted and acted as if its existence was their right. Those were the people who had no regard for self-censorship, people who did not respect an opposing view, people who attacked others with opposite political preferences ... the list goes on, you all know what I am talking about.

Isarahim has the best solution (my sincere thanks) and I have executed it - go to the Arus Politik link (http://www.usj.com.my/bulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=24704)