Feel as though living in their Country

[robertec]

I got this message on the SJ Alert Mobile Number.

Wednesday, 8 October, 2008 11:52 AM

IM MAG FRM SS19/7A OUR LOW COST FLATS PACKED WITH IMMIGRANTS OF MANY NATIONS WHERE MAJORITY ILLEGALS ALOT OF CRIME HAPPENNING BUT D LOCALS DARE NOT DO ANYTHING PLS DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS D SAFETY N SECURE IS GONE FEEL AS THOUGH LIVING IN THEIR COUNTRY TQ=
=
=
=

[robertec]

This information was sent out to all SJ Alert Members on 29/08/2008

If you spot illegal immigrants in the Subang Jaya area you can contact RELA at :

Fax: 56348167 - Attention Encik Shamsuddin
Call: 012-3534712 - Encik Ghazali
=
=
=
=

[umadavid]

The problem would be: How would you know whether they are legal or illegal?

[Blue Jasmine]

The problem would be: How would you know whether they are legal or illegal?


The problem most of the smarter and lucky malaysian has migrated ...and the country continue importing indons, banglas and etc in the country....after a while look the new malaysian...and wonder why they say malaysia boleh.

[AllUrban]

The problem most of the smarter and lucky malaysian has migrated ...and the country continue importing indons, banglas and etc in the country....after a while look the new malaysian...and wonder why they say malaysia boleh.Blue Jasmine,

You know the same thing has been said about other people of other races in the past...and you can see the controversy that was created... :eek:

when you say this you are treading close to the same attitudes...it is the same darn thing.

Face facts...there can be no limit on the number of different people in Malaysia or any other country.

Face facts...foreigners of all races are here and they will continue to come, just as they have done so for hundreds and thousands of years.

There is nothing wrong with that...which is why it is time we get used to that and make it a non issue ...

Instead, we must start dealing with the police that we distrust or feel contempt for, the sense of fear that is eating us up inside, and the criminals who are taking advantage of our weaknesses.

Blaming foreigners and immigration policy will not stop these crimes.

Cheers, m

[pepsi]

Blue Jasmine,

You know the same thing has been said about other people of other races in the past...and you can see the controversy that was created... :eek:


eeer, I thought she was talking in the context of Malaysians(irregardless of race) born and bred here as opposed to other nationals working here illegaly and legally ?
But I think stressing more towards the latter, who mysteriously becomes a Malaysian citizen ?

[AllUrban]

eeer, I thought she was talking in the context of Malaysians(irregardless of race) born and bred here as opposed to other nationals working here illegaly and legally ?
But I think stressing more towards the latter, who mysteriously becomes a Malaysian citizen ?maybe that is what she was talking about...but she did not state that so clearly. Other people read this forum as well. And it is not a huge leap to go from "Bangla's and Indons" to "Indians and Chinese" is it? Is that the kind of mentality that we want to perpetuate?

We must avoid this thinking because it will lead us down the wrong road and lead us to trouble. If the problem is with "rapid citizenship" that is going back to the immigration department and the corruption....so the issue is with the government...not the people.

Identify the problems with the system, then, fix the system. Never, ever blame the people.

Cheers, m

[USJ27Resident]

Identify the problems with the system, then, fix the system. Never, ever blame the people.

Cheers, m

The thread sound kinda xenophobic to me... Stereotyping people is just not right... :(

[RGRaj]

The thread sound kinda xenophobic to me... Stereotyping people is just not right... :(

You wouldn't be xenophobic & stereotype if you don't have a reason, would you?

Let's face it. Immigrants (legal or otherwise) have reached plague proportions in Malaysia. Just go to KL city centre during the public holidays. You really do feel like being in a foreign country.

[pepsi]

You wouldn't be xenophobic & stereotype if you don't have a reason, would you?

Let's face it. Immigrants (legal or otherwise) have reached plague proportions in Malaysia. Just go to KL city centre during the public holidays. You really do feel like being in a foreign country.
As a Malaysian, I am quite concern too, however if I was a foreigner, I would think I am just being paranoid.... :D, because as a foreigner we are working in Malaysia to "cari makan" only what......After that, we pack our bags and balik....for good.
I am, however , more concern about the lower skilled foreign workers, not so much of the higher skilled workers or proffesionals.(I apologise if I ada menyinggung hati sesiapa, for having form a skewered perception of the foreign lower skilled workers).

[pepsi]

And it is not a huge leap to go from "Bangla's and Indons" to "Indians and Chinese" is it? Is that the kind of mentality that we want to perpetuate?


Cheers, m
What are you saying ?
Bangla and Indons as in Bangladeshis and Indonesians as opposed to Malaysians Indians and Malaysian Chinese ?????
Why do I get the impression, that you are comparing the Malaysian Indians and Malaysian Chinese status and rights as a Malaysian with other nationalities sama ranking ?Tak ada perbezaan ?

If these Bangladeshis and Indonesians were Malaysians, we won't be calling them bangla and indons, would we ?
Are we talking about race or other nationalities here ?
Kindly enlighten me on this .

[AllUrban]

If these Bangladeshis and Indonesians were Malaysians, we won't be calling them bangla and indons, would we ?
Are we talking about race or other nationalities here ?
Kindly enlighten me on this .You refer to race or nationality but there is only one word in Bahasa Malaysia "bangsa"

Bangsa describes both race and nationality. If the race context is preeminent, "Bangsa Malaysia" would be "Malaysian race" which for some people cannot exist. If the nationality context were preeminent, "Bangsa Malaysia" would be "Malaysian Nation" and we could resolve a lot of these issues.

If these people were Malaysians we would still be identifying them by their race, feeling that they are not Malaysian, and possibly calling them derogatory names.

We are still doing this for other races and people who have been here for 1 or many generations. We did this to Malaysian leaders like TDM. Why would we stop just for the Indonesians or Bangladeshis ?

Cheers, m

[pepsi]

You refer to race or nationality but there is only one word in Bahasa Malaysia "bangsa"

Bangsa describes both race and nationality. If the race context is preeminent, "Bangsa Malaysia" would be "Malaysian race" which for some people cannot exist. If the nationality context were preeminent, "Bangsa Malaysia" would be "Malaysian Nation" and we could resolve a lot of these issues.

If these people were Malaysians we would still be identifying them by their race, feeling that they are not Malaysian, and possibly calling them derogatory names.

We are still doing this for other races and people who have been here for 1 or many generations. We did this to Malaysian leaders like TDM. Why would we stop just for the Indonesians or Bangladeshis ?

Cheers, m
Eeer, what about warganegara ?
As in Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore, and etc, also comprise of other race eg. Indonesian Chinese, Timorese, Jawa, Singapore chinese, indians and etc
When the terms like Singaporeans, Bangladeshis and Indonesians are used by the locals here, it specifically means other nationalities (bukan warganegara Malaysia)
As for TDM, he is definitely a Malaysian, although here is not 100% pure Melayu. There is no question about it.

So I don't agree that you use examples like the Malaysian Chinese and Malaysian Indian as an example in this context.
However, I do agree that we should not be discriminate our fellow human beings and that our immigration dept is responsible (or irresponsible) for the "rapid citizenship"... at the expense of the locals here...

[AllUrban]

So I don't agree that you use examples like the Malaysian Chinese and Malaysian Indian as an example in this context.So all of the views on foreigners are based on their citizenship/non-citizenship? Nothing to do with race/colour at at all? :rolleyes:

Okie, so we go with that...also I guess there is a belief that a "citizen" is more important than a "non-citizen" ....and at the same time we dont like the "rapid" citizenship that some people are receiving? Because clearly that cheapens the value of citizenship....

Then perhaps we should look past citizenship and just look at what these people are contributing to society. If you contribute positively you are welcome...think of all of the "non-citizens" that have provided more to the society than the "citizens" ever could/did/wanted to?

A warganegara mat rempit is more important to this society than I am because he is warganegara and Im just a foreign worker :-P

Pepsi, Im really glad you think that the Malaysian Chinese and Indians have a special consideration because they are warganegara, citizens. But there are two problems with your argument.

First, earlier you pointed out that citizenship can have little value if it can be bought...which weakens the value of that citizenship.

Second, let's go back to that guy up in Penang who stated that it was a mistake to offer citizenship to those Chinese and Indians...and then refused to apoligize, stating that it was a common belief...and he was speaking among friends and to friends...

I guess he (and others of his ilk) does not think much of the value of citizenship either....or much of some Malaysians...

Perhaps this is the reason why Malaysia might be the only country in the world where you can sell citizenship and race to anyone.............

Malaysia has a lot in common with Canada, the US, Australia, and the UK...in that it is a diverse society of immigrants...which brings huge advantages if the human resources can be managed properly....but we are not managing this resource properly

The difference between Malaysia vs. Canada, Australia, the US and the UK, is not that 4 of the countries are more developed or more wealthy or more advanced.

The difference is that in the UK, Canada, Australia, and the USA, the race, origins and citizenship dont really matter...what matters is what people will contribute to the society.

Malaysia is squandering a huge human resource and huge economic opportunities because it is focusing on things that just dont matter

Cheers, m

[robertec]

Kindly stop the dicussion on "race" and the soon to start bickering on politics, whatever said, it still does not solve Mag's problem.

Let's move on, please.
=
=
=

[AllUrban]

whatever said, it still does not solve Mag's problem.

Let's move on, please.
=
=
=fair enough...perhaps we can change the title of the thread to reflect MAGs problem...except that I am not sure what it is Robert.

Is it the "crimes" and the "lack of safety and security" that she describes? Or is it the presence of "so many immigrants" and "feeling like we are in their country?" :confused:

If the problem is with the immigrants, (as the title of the thread suggests), how to help?

If the problem is with the crimes and the safety and security in SS19/7A then the title of the thread should be changed, should it not :confused:

Ok, let's assume that the issue is the crimes and lack of security....

I do know that SS17 Lafite has a lot of immigrants of many nations as well ... so do SS12 Boulevard, SS12 Spring and Summer Villa, SS16 e-Tiara etc. Not to mention, much of Bangsar, Sri Hartamas, Mont Kiara, and Jalan Ampang and KLCC and the Sausana Sentral at KL Sentral.

But at most of these places, the security is good ... really effective ... and the neighbours are actively involved in their communities

Maybe that is the place to start? Better security and more active neighbours?

Cheers, m

[pepsi]

Allurban, you are being "defensive" because you are a foreigner..... :)
Just the mention of immigrants only, you cry foul and race discrimination and you compare the present predicament of the Malaysian chinese and indians with the immigrants (legal or illegal)....which I feel is not right.
Before we lose the plot, I just want to say that, as a Malaysian, I can understand Mag's predicament and frustration. It's pretty straigtforward with no intention to discriminate whatsoever...race or foreigners.
It's the problem of these specific illegal immigrants residing in the vicnity.
Allurban, of course if you are applying for Malaysian citizenship, we would be honored to have you. Your contribution to Malaysia is no less (if not more)than some of the Malaysians here.

p/s Sorry ,Robertec, last time, I need to reply Allurban on this issue. It would be impolite not to respond and clear the matter.

[Blue Jasmine]

As a Malaysian, I am quite concern too, however if I was a foreigner, I would think I am just being paranoid.... :D, because as a foreigner we are working in Malaysia to "cari makan" only what......After that, we pack our bags and balik....for good.
I am, however , more concern about the lower skilled foreign workers, not so much of the higher skilled workers or proffesionals.(I apologise if I ada menyinggung hati sesiapa, for having form a skewered perception of the foreign lower skilled workers).

Sorry for not being clear ...what i meant is lower skilled foreign workers VS higher skilled workers. As a malaysian i would happily welcome higher skilled workers to live in Malaysia. What i hope is for our country to be like Australia or New Zealand where staying there will be difficult. I am actually refering to the Sabah case where free IC is given to the certain ppl just to win votes. (also indons just to make a certain race to be the major) What they have done is not so bright..they see in short term - win ,,,but in the long term what will happen in Malaysia? Can you all see? Can you all understand what i meant? i am not making judgement cause all this is common sense.

All Urban, you have misunderstand me. Of course we are most happy to see you living in Malaysia and i also have read many of your mail (comments) in the STAR newspaper. This is good cause we accually want more of these advise and ideas as it will educated us. I dont know how to correctly say this but we hope that malaysian wont be a place for the lower skilled foreign workers but rather be more and more like Australia and New Zealand. They have such high standards for PR and Foreign workers. They do this to keep the country safe and guard what they have. But we Malaysian seems to be selling it all away or rather giving it away. Just worried for Malaysia thats all.

[AllUrban]

All Urban, you have misunderstand me. Of course we are most happy to see you living in Malaysia and i also have read many of your mail (comments) in the STAR newspaper. This is good cause we accually want more of these advise and ideas as it will educated us. I dont know how to correctly say this but we hope that malaysian wont be a place for the lower skilled foreign workers but rather be more and more like Australia and New Zealand. They have such high standards for PR and Foreign workers. They do this to keep the country safe and guard what they have. But we Malaysian seems to be selling it all away or rather giving it away. Just worried for Malaysia thats all.Malaysia, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the US and the UK all have something in common - they are multicultural nations with strong economic fundamentals. Of these countries, Malaysia is the only one that has not been able to raise the status of its economy as much as it is capable of.

The other 5 countries have largely suspended race as a criteria for immigration or membership in the society and contribution to the growth of that society. Instead of looking at race, these countries see skills and potential as the criteria that really matter. They do not "guard what they have" but instead they enhance and grow with what they have and seek out more opportunities to grow.

Here in Malaysia instead of focusing on skills, we are focusing on race to "guard what we have" as you have described. Not only are we "guarding" the interests of the m-race, but also the c-race and the i-race and the l-l-race. Tell me the members of the c-race and the i-race are not concerned about the presence of these newer immigrants? Of course people are concerned...because they are "guarding what they have". Which is why, it is quite ironic that, despite a large presence of the c-race and the i-race within the population, the economic integration with c-nation and i-nation is far less than it could be.

Because we are too busy guarding what we have we are losing opportunities to grow and develop our part of the world together.

The issue that I brought up is the race issue because I dont see any special consideration for any race. It doesnt matter where you are from, just that you are here now and ready and willing to contribute.

There is no special considereation of the race in the most successful countries...and if we want Malaysia to be successful we must stop "guarding what we have" and instead, enhance what we have.

Malaysia is a cross-roads in the world. Immigrants of all races have come here and made it their home for generations. Many Malaysians have been able to adapt to other places but still have a powerful longing for home.

These immigrants that have Malaysians on their guard could one day be Malaysians with the same level of loyalty and passion that many Malaysians have. I can see past generations who have already become Malaysians and will stay Malaysians forever.

It doesnt matter if they are educated or not, highly skilled or not. That can be developed with the right level of attention and effort. What matters is that we build that passion and loyalty and sense of contribution within the immigrants and all other Malaysians....so that they want to make Malaysia a better place and are willing to make that effort.

Immigrants have made Malaysia a better place and they will continue to do so if we welcome them and embrace them. But, instead we isolate them and fear them and say that they will never be like us.

That is the reason why I am concerned and concerned enough to react. No, I did not misunderstand the ideas expressed in this thread. It is just that, what matters to me is quite different from what matters to others.

I wish to enhance what we have so that there is room for everyone to contribute, to grow and to succeed.

So, how do we solve Mag's problem? There are a few different answers such as more police, bring in rela, etc....but I think that this is the best answer: integrate the immigrants and make them Malaysian!

Cheers, m

[robertec]

Sadly, Moaz has repeatedly tried to impose his own views in this thread, from lecturing fellow forumers to asking that this thread be closed, to asking that the name of this thread be changed. And now finally making these ridiculous statements:


It doesnt matter if they are educated or not, highly skilled or not. That can be developed with the right level of attention and effort.

No, I did not misunderstand the ideas expressed in this thread. It is just that, what matters to me is quite different from what matters to others.

Integrate the immigrants and make them Malaysian?
Wow, so these are the solutions??

How did a plea for help from a lady in SS19 turn into this????

Instead of offering solutions to solve the problems, like:

1. Get the residents, Police, Rela and the Immigrants to sit down for a dialogue.
2. Get the employees/Police to ensure that these Immigrant workers behave themselves
3. etc…

it is assumed that these young immigrant workers are all angels, but what if they are rowdy especially after a few drinks in the night, after all they are a bunch of young men … so what are the women folk suppose to do?

I don’t think that anyone has to be apologetic about how they feel about this subject, we must agree to disagree.

I think there is enough deviation, I will not close this thread, however, I will delete all posting that stray from the subject.

[pepsi]

So, how do we solve Mag's problem? There are a few different answers such as more police, bring in rela, etc....but I think that this is the best answer: integrate the immigrants and make them Malaysian!

Cheers, m
Integrate the immigrants and make them Malaysians ?
Eeeer, don't they need to apply first and meet certain immigration requirements ?Eg....health, no criminal records, required minimum skills and education ? A world witout borders, seamless is what you seem to be asking..... :D Than everyone would choose the the place with the best climate, weather wise and economic wise....
Cmon, Moaz....be rational. If you suggest we convert the present immigrants to Malaysians because of their contributions, can we at least pick the ones with no criminal records and with skills that we can benefit ?
Yes, the locals do contribute to the criminal activities too, but we don't have to add on to the numbers right ?Our police force would be outnumbered.
In addition, why are we encouraging these specific immigrants to be Malaysians, if it's not for their skills and brains, like most countries ? It's only logical, right ? What is your reason to convert this present immigrants especially the illegal ones ? On compassionate grounds ?

IM MAG FRM SS19/7A OUR LOW COST FLATS PACKED WITH IMMIGRANTS OF MANY NATIONS WHERE MAJORITY ILLEGALS ALOT OF CRIME HAPPENNING BUT D LOCALS DARE NOT DO ANYTHING PLS DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS D SAFETY N SECURE IS GONE FEEL AS THOUGH LIVING IN THEIR COUNTRY TQ=

The words written in BOLD,to highlight MAG's concern. Here is someone scared and concerned about her safety, not someone who is cynical and throwing racist remarks. "Feel as though living in their country" could be interpreted in many ways but not necessary discriminating the immigrants. She feels insecured and outnumbered and why should she feels these way, if the immigrants made her feel at home ?That's the irony of it .

[AllUrban]

Sadly, Moaz has repeatedly tried to impose his own views in this thread, from lecturing fellow forumers to asking that this thread be closed, to asking that the name of this thread be changed. And now finally making these ridiculous statements:

Wow, so these are the solutions??

How did a plea for help from a lady in SS19 turn into this????

Instead of offering solutions to solve the problems, like:

1. Get the residents, Police, Rela and the Immigrants to sit down for a dialogue.
2. Get the employees/Police to ensure that these Immigrant workers behave themselves
3. etc…

it is assumed that these young immigrant workers are all angels, but what if they are rowdy especially after a few drinks in the night, after all they are a bunch of young men … so what are the women folk suppose to do?

I don’t think that anyone has to be apologetic about how they feel about this subject, we must agree to disagree.

I think there is enough deviation, I will not close this thread, however, I will delete all posting that stray from the subject.Robert, I did raise some constructive solutions based on my experience in SS17. Proper security and dialogue etc. I see that you chose to ignore those and are now calling my opinion and other suggestions ridiculous....fine, so be it...I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it.....

Still, I am dismayed.

Do you know if they are angels or devils? Have you gone to turun padang and see the situation for yourself? Or are you posting based on hearsay? Bring RELA into the picture in posting #2 ... Do we even have proof that they are illegals? Beyond that, is the use of RELA a credible, long-lasting solution? How is it working so far? The police? What about them? Is the use of the police a long-term solution given the total lack of resources that the police have?

I don't know about you but my observation is that the number of immigrants has only increased in the past 3 years. Part of this is because of the economic boom and some of those workers may go back.

But the majority will not. They will stay for the economic opportunities. They aren't going to go back by choice and you expel them they will find ways to come back - facilitated by agents and police and immigration.

Why convert them to Malaysians? Because in most cases, making foreigners into proud citizens is a rational and effective solution. It has been carried out in many countries, including Malaysia, for hundreds of years.


well, enough of that. We can agree to disagree. I havent called anyone's ideas ridiculous though I may have disagreed with them. Whether I am lecturing or not is up to you. I accept that I did react when someone compared immigrants (who are human beings after all) to a plague...it is tough to defend arguments like that.

So, Ive listed a few ideas. So has robert. Has anyone started any dialogues yet? Tried to make people feel at home? Tried to bring communities together? Contacted MPSJ (Theresa Ratnam is the councillor for this area). Contacted Hannah Yeoh, the ADUN? Loh Gwo-Burne, the MP? Contacted Rela? Contacted the police?

Cheers, m

[pepsi]

Allurban, many hundred years, people moved around freely looking for new frontiers to trade and settle. No need to use passport, NRIC, no birth certificate, no sales and purchase agreement, land titles, perhaps even no surname and least of all no immigration department. So ......it's different....an existing national of another country has to go through proper procedures and certain criteria (which includes forfeiting their existing citizenship) before obtaining another country's citizenship.
If we are talking about protecting the rights of the immigrants as human beings from being abused by our local authorities or even on humanitarian gounds, it's a totally different issue altogether.

[robertec]

My main purpose in posting the SMS from Mag here was to get some feedback. After which we will get the JKP and the ADUN YB Hannah Yeoh to have a look into this matter. This has not been posted on SJ Alert EMS.

The SMS message indicated low cost flats, immigrants..majority illegals. #2 posting was to remind everyone that should they come into contact with illegal immigrants in Subang Jaya they had some people to turn to. It was not an invitation for every migrant worker in Subang to be labeled an illegal immigrant.

Some ideas were buried in long explanations about how to conduct ourselves with migrant workers etc..

So at the end of it all what suggestions do we have for the JKP and the ADUN?
I honestly hope it is not:

Let’s integrate the immigrants, educated or not, highly skilled or not and make them all Malaysians.
=
=
=

[AllUrban]

I honestly hope it is not:

Let’s integrate the immigrants, educated or not, highly skilled or not and make them all Malaysians.why not? You constantly say that this is not a solution but is has worked in the past for Malaysia and it is working for other countries in the present. A good 40% of the population of this country are descended from people who were once considered "immigrants" and now they are integrated and could not imagine life anywhere else. All it takes is one generation...and you have a long term solution.
:)

Well, we can agree to disagree here but where are the realistic reasons? Just saying that "it wont work"...isnt a realistic argument.

Yes, pepsi, I am thinking about humanitarian grounds and human rights...but also the economics as well. There are 2.5 million legal foreign workers and possibly 1 million illegals. That is 3.5 million people, more than 10 % of the population and a good 30% of the labour force.

Make them Malaysian and they will stay here, spend their money here, and raise Malaysian children who will love this country.:)

has anyone emailed the wakil rakyat yet? How about holding a session where the immigrants and locals actually talk to each other instead of being wary or afraid? It would be good to hear about all perspectives :)

Cheers, m

[pepsi]

why not? You constantly say that this is not a solution but is has worked in the past for Malaysia and it is working for other countries in the present. A good 40% of the population of this country are descended from people who were once considered "immigrants" and now they are integrated and could not imagine life anywhere else. All it takes is one generation...and you have a long term solution.
:)

Well, we can agree to disagree here but where are the realistic reasons? Just saying that "it wont work"...isnt a realistic argument.

Yes, pepsi, I am thinking about humanitarian grounds and human rights...but also the economics as well. There are 2.5 million legal foreign workers and possibly 1 million illegals. That is 3.5 million people, more than 10 % of the population and a good 30% of the labour force.

Make them Malaysian and they will stay here, spend their money here, and raise Malaysian children who will love this country.:)

has anyone emailed the wakil rakyat yet? How about holding a session where the immigrants and locals actually talk to each other instead of being wary or afraid? It would be good to hear about all perspectives :)

Cheers, m
Well, Allurban...I am all for a more colorful, vibrant, variety of people .
This would actually encourage more multiracial parties..., however let's be a little bit more prudent about the type of skills we are importing, not the ones which encourage criminal activities. It would be a detriment to the Malaysian society.

[blurrman]

AllUrban,

most of the country requires a certain SKILL SETS, EDUCATION LEVEL, Police clearance check, before being granted to go into their country to stay. oh..also to pass a certain test for the language competency.

i believed most of the people in this thread will mostly welcome people from various countries to come and contribute to the country as long as a certain criteria is met.

[AllUrban]

AllUrban,

most of the country requires a certain SKILL SETS, EDUCATION LEVEL, Police clearance check, before being granted to go into their country to stay. oh..also to pass a certain test for the language competency.

i believed most of the people in this thread will mostly welcome people from various countries to come and contribute to the country as long as a certain criteria is met.that is very true but it depends on the type of immigrants that a country is looking for. Some countries want educated, intelligent, business saavy immigrants - then make them drive taxis and deliver pizzas....citing a lack of local experience.

Let's be honest here...Malaysian society wants immigrants to do service jobs - restaurant service, petrol stations, maids, construction - as well as factory/industrial and agricultural work. We arent like the countries that want highly educated people then only offer them service jobs :rolleyes:

Consider the immigrants we have here already. We can develop the skill sets and education levels that we need within those immigrants. The skill sets required for the jobs they do can be developed locally. Look at the construction industry, for example. In some cases, the workers (local and foreign) might receive direct training or on-the-job training...often from trainers with 1/2-1 year more experience than the trainees....

Train them locally, educate them locally, and employ them locally and you have a loyal pool of labour that will be utilized for years and years.

The security issues and health issues - that goes back to the home ministry. Eliminate the corruption and the unscrupulous agents and the problem of illegals will be taken care of.

Anyways...to be fair, continuing discussion of immigration digresses from the original thread which is "Mag's Problem"

Let's discuss immigration/migration there is this thread (http://www.usj.com.my/bulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=22946&page=1&pp=15) in the main forum or we could start a new one :) Be happy to discuss it there.

Cheers, m