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silver_bird
30-09-2008, 07:27 PM
PM Abdullah Badawi described the release of two tankers by Somali pirates as God's "Hari Raya" gift.
http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v3/news_lite.php?id=362106

But a ransom of USD 2 million (RM6.9 million) per vesssel was paid by MISC to the pirates for the release.
http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v5/newsgeneral.php?id=361996

It should be MISC's Hari Raya gift as they paid the ransom of RM13.8 million

USJ27Resident
30-09-2008, 07:48 PM
Probably the only shipping company (and Govt???) that has openly declared that they had openly negotiated with and paid ransom to hostage takers and pirates.... :eek:

Those pirates must be having a Grand Eid Mubarak with that 13 plus million!

It would be open season now for other pirates and organisations to look for Malaysian flagged vessels... wooohooo!! :rolleyes:

scorgio
30-09-2008, 10:01 PM
The Govt stressed that the ransom was paid by the vessel's owner (MISC), not the Govt.

BUT MISC was owned by Petronas which is 100% state owned.

So, who are these jokers trying to fool?

USJ27Resident
30-09-2008, 10:06 PM
So, who are these jokers trying to fool?

you had to ask... :p

firefox
01-10-2008, 12:18 PM
Best gift would be the release of all ISA heroes on this Hari Raya.

chin_wan
01-10-2008, 12:34 PM
Come on guys...aren't you happy that the everyone (except 1) is safe? I am just happy for the family of the crew that everyone is safe.

You guys are so selfish.

Sentinel
01-10-2008, 12:45 PM
The Govt stressed that the ransom was paid by the vessel's owner (MISC), not the Govt.

BUT MISC was owned by Petronas which is 100% state owned.

So, who are these jokers trying to fool?

Yup.

So was the purchase of the Airbus A319 Executive Jet.

It was purchased by Penerbangan Malaysia Bhd (PMB) and not by the government.

Same old argument, man, and they still think we are stupid.

Sentinel
01-10-2008, 12:47 PM
Come on guys...aren't you happy that the everyone (except 1) is safe? I am just happy for the family of the crew that everyone is safe.

You guys are so selfish.

You aware that the other shipping companies are working with the US Navy there to resolve the problem differently. We even have our RMN navy gunboats there so why pay? When will this end?

QuietStorm
01-10-2008, 12:59 PM
Encouraged, the pirates will go do it again. And again. It'll never end unless they are put behind bars or bumped off the face of the earth. To pay them off is to encourage them to continue their evil ways.

cutebanana
01-10-2008, 09:57 PM
Priority is safety of crew, the ship being hijacked is Malaysian, yes but not government, so even by paying ransom to the pirates, if they did so is not wrong. Yes we lose face by succumbing to the pirates demand for ransom. But just imagine if the hijacked crew member is one of your family member. How ? The crew is now in safe hands, our ship is still there patrolling and helping the US and Russian, in fact our Navy have helped the French to free up their sailors (i'm not too certain if the French paid any ransom, but most likely not). By attacking them, we only endanger unnecessarily the lives of the hijack crews (ours and also other countries). The Somalian pirates are not idiots, they have the equipment and the people to inflict harm if they so chooses. This spade of hijackings are perhaps planned well in advance when they have the weapons and backups at hand. We pay money for lives. In the future we may even have another ship being hijack by the Somalian pirates, so doing the unnecessary now would be unwise.

aurora97
02-10-2008, 12:30 AM
Priority is safety of crew, the ship being hijacked is Malaysian, yes but not government, so even by paying ransom to the pirates, if they did so is not wrong. Yes we lose face by succumbing to the pirates demand for ransom. But just imagine if the hijacked crew member is one of your family member. How ? The crew is now in safe hands, our ship is still there patrolling and helping the US and Russian, in fact our Navy have helped the French to free up their sailors (i'm not too certain if the French paid any ransom, but most likely not). By attacking them, we only endanger unnecessarily the lives of the hijack crews (ours and also other countries). The Somalian pirates are not idiots, they have the equipment and the people to inflict harm if they so chooses. This spade of hijackings are perhaps planned well in advance when they have the weapons and backups at hand. We pay money for lives. In the future we may even have another ship being hijack by the Somalian pirates, so doing the unnecessary now would be unwise.

Point taken, though paying terrorist ransom is a bad idea and worse of all it encourages them even more. In this case the human lives are worth more than a ship, once lives r taken they will no longer exist on this earth not to mention the other lives (wife, children etc...) that are affect.

Anyway I am sure after all the hostages r released, the "western powers" out there will not be so kind as to let them take control of another ship. Should be interesting news coming out from Somalia in the near future.

chin_wan
02-10-2008, 12:33 PM
You aware that the other shipping companies are working with the US Navy there to resolve the problem differently. We even have our RMN navy gunboats there so why pay? When will this end?

Why pay? Because if it was my father that was held hostage, I'd want him back home safely.

silver_bird
02-10-2008, 01:22 PM
Why pay? Because if it was my father that was held hostage, I'd want him back home safely.

Tomorrow if your father is kidnapped in Kuala Lumpur and you can't afford to pay RM 1.0 mil, will the Govt or their GLC pay the ransom for his release ?
If they don't pay, will the Govt be considered as selfish ?

chin_wan
02-10-2008, 01:31 PM
Do whatever it takes. They may have the money today, there's still tomorrow. Sepandai-pandai tupai melompat, ahkirnya jatuh ke tanah juga.

This is a human life we're talking about.

pepsi
02-10-2008, 02:56 PM
What's more important now, is .......PREVENTION......from reoccuring ....

If there is another incident again, what then ?

Pay again and again and again ......until we run out of funds ?

Susah -susah the tax payers of Malaysia work and the pirates just rob us ...blind....

chin_wan
02-10-2008, 03:01 PM
So you are saying, it's OK for the crew member to die in the name of "prevention"?

pepsi
02-10-2008, 11:49 PM
So you are saying, it's OK for the crew member to die in the name of "prevention"?
Chin Wan, did I say it's ok ?Read again ........carefully........ :)
Get back to me again ...if you still don't get it.....

tsd
02-10-2008, 11:59 PM
looks like it is getting more dangerous for being Malaysian, at home.. we get robbed, house break-in, car theft, killed raped... etc Even in international water away from home we are also facing the same danger. Is this Gods gift or punishment to our country ?

chin_wan
03-10-2008, 07:01 PM
Chin Wan, did I say it's ok ?Read again ........carefully........ :)
Get back to me again ...if you still don't get it.....

Maybe I did not get what you mean. Sorry. :(

USJ27Resident
03-10-2008, 09:52 PM
According to the press statements [TheStar] , our navy fellas delivered the ransom money.... what a joke!

I can only imagine what would happen if our RMN gunboats were held up instead... :eek: even Davy Jones would be embarrased as hell...

tsd
03-10-2008, 10:26 PM
According to the press statements [TheStar] , our navy fellas delivered the ransom money.... what a joke!


Maybe this is consider small amount :D in our standard; of paying to get a favour.

cml
04-10-2008, 12:12 PM
When a person takes on a certain job with risks involved they will be remunerated differently e.g those working on oil rigs etc. Similarly those working on ships are paid better than someone working at the same job on land. Taking aside the talk of " if the hostage were our relatives' , the fact that they take on the job means that they have accepted the risks that come with the job. Just like a soldier who gets killed in the line of duty. He or she cannot blame the army for their death or the army had not taken enough precautions to ensure their safety. My point is once you pay them once they will keep coming for more knowing that it will be there.

silver_bird
04-10-2008, 12:29 PM
According to the press statements [TheStar] , our navy fellas delivered the ransom money.... what a joke!

Why do we need to send three warships when kidnapping usually involved in paying ransom?
Was there a war in Somali ?

http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Saturday/Frontpage/20081004102250/Article/index_html

Update news :-
The 65 crews is presently resting at Sheraton Subang this morning 4/10.

chin_wan
04-10-2008, 03:01 PM
When a person takes on a certain job with risks involved they will be remunerated differently e.g those working on oil rigs etc. Similarly those working on ships are paid better than someone working at the same job on land. Taking aside the talk of " if the hostage were our relatives' , the fact that they take on the job means that they have accepted the risks that come with the job. Just like a soldier who gets killed in the line of duty. He or she cannot blame the army for their death or the army had not taken enough precautions to ensure their safety. My point is once you pay them once they will keep coming for more knowing that it will be there.

So what is the solution? Sacrifice the crew? All I hear is criticism and no solution.

bugbear
04-10-2008, 04:02 PM
I think both side have a valid argument here. On one side, it is the human life that matter, while on the other it is seen a encouraging pirates to target more ship. We do not live in a perfect world. what is going on now is that each country comes up with their own solution to the problem and none of them agree with the others. If the world communities want to end this pirate menace once and for all, then all must sit down together and come to a consensus on how to deal with them.
What our government is doing is politically motivated to show a good image after the GE12 debacle. I can't blame Pak Lah for doing what he did but the greater harm has been done to the international resolve against terrorism and piracy at large.

cskok8
04-10-2008, 08:49 PM
Why do we need to send three warships when kidnapping usually involved in paying ransom?
Was there a war in Somali ?

http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Saturday/Frontpage/20081004102250/Article/index_html

Update news :-
The 65 crews is presently resting at Sheraton Subang this morning 4/10.

Only one of the (Lekiu) is a real warship (frigate). The other two are logistic ships.

cutebanana
04-10-2008, 09:39 PM
When a person takes on a certain job with risks involved they will be remunerated differently e.g those working on oil rigs etc. Similarly those working on ships are paid better than someone working at the same job on land. Taking aside the talk of " if the hostage were our relatives' , the fact that they take on the job means that they have accepted the risks that come with the job. Just like a soldier who gets killed in the line of duty. He or she cannot blame the army for their death or the army had not taken enough precautions to ensure their safety. My point is once you pay them once they will keep coming for more knowing that it will be there.


"My point is once you pay them once they will keep coming for more knowing that it will be there."

It does not take a rocket scientist to come to that conclusion. Ransom paid is gov's money, ultimately it's tax payer's money and if you pay taxes, you have a right to question the decision to pay off the ransom without a single bullet being used by our Navy.

Yes, i do agree with your point that they have agreed to accept the risks involved in working offshore, on a ship, be it risks from foul weather, bad luck, being attack by terrorists, pirates, etc. However, then they have encountered the pirates and being taken hostages, the question of whether they "have accepted the risks that come with the job" is like questioning whether should you clean up your ass during after you **** in your pants". Be clear that taking any job offshore is not equivalent to defending your country's honour. Dying in the hands of pirates is not the same as getting killed in the line of duty as a soldier.

The hostages are now free and ALIVE because our government paid ransoms to the pirates. Should we thank the government or should we just condemn the government for "giving in so easily". I for one is thankful that the hostages are alive and well. I am sad that the hostages got what they wanted. But I know that this is not the end. The end game is far from over. The shipping company will probably implement more diligent and safer SOP while communicating better with patrols in that area. Perhaps we would and should not give in to the pirates demand if our crews are again taken hostage in the future. Perhaps then we would know what other options we have in such situations.

kwchang
04-10-2008, 10:10 PM
I have changed the title from "God's Hari Raya Gift ?" to "Somalian Pirates" - since the orginal title does not indicate what the discussion is about and also makes the thread outdated since we have passed Hari Raya.

On the topic, I would say the whole world is anxiously watching what happens to the $20 million ransom demand and the outcome of the standoff between the pirates and the rest of the world over a shipload of tanks and guns.

pepsi
05-10-2008, 09:56 PM
we have paid to save lives, but I do not agree we sit back (like sitting ducks) and wait for it to happen again. It is a very traumatic incident even if the crew was safely return to their families and next time, if a ransom was paid, we may not be so lucky that everyone came out unhurt.

AllUrban
06-10-2008, 02:26 PM
The crew is now in safe hands, our ship is still there patrolling and helping the US and Russian, in fact our Navy have helped the French to free up their sailors (i'm not too certain if the French paid any ransom, but most likely not). The French NEVER pay ransom. They never make excuses either. They would mount an operation and use convincing force or other means to get what they want.
I have changed the title from "God's Hari Raya Gift ?" to "Somalian Pirates" - since the orginal title does not indicate what the discussion is about and also makes the thread outdated since we have passed Hari Raya.

On the topic, I would say the whole world is anxiously watching what happens to the $20 million ransom demand and the outcome of the standoff between the pirates and the rest of the world over a shipload of tanks and guns.Maybe you can change the title again to "Pirates of the Gulf of Aden" instead? No need to tar all Somalians (who are wonderful people) with the same brush for the actions of a group of pirates.

If you were living in a country ruled by marauding warlords and neo-terrorists who had managed (twice) to destabilize your existing government (with outside help)........where your life and death did not matter an iota to anyone including your best friends........................................... . :eek:

Anyways...the political situation in Somalia is what has led to these pirates existing. Paying ransom is a short term solution but it will not solve problems in the long term etc etc etc.

On the other hand...perhaps Malaysia can now go over to Somalia and the other littoral states (Djibouti, Ethopia, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, etc). and share their knowledge of how they reduced piracy in the straits of malacca.

Cheers, m

ivanhow
07-10-2008, 01:35 AM
Come to think of it, any one thought about what is at stake on the two vessels, including of couse the lives of the crew.

It appears that the ransom paid is nothing compared to the value of the vessel and the crew. Hence, they probably deem it fit to just get it over. That, everyday the vessel is held hostage is loss of revenue to the shipping operators.

Guess a choice had to be made between the two. And, it boils down to dollars and good sense.

It probably doesn't end there even if no ransom was paid.
The saga may continue for another few weeks if there were no progress. Also, the shipment may not be insured against terrorist and pirate attacks. (Insurance companies are reluctant to insure against pirates and terror attacks)
Worst still, no government is in control of the pirates whom action can be taken. We either declare war on the pirates, or just regard it as a loss as normal part of an unfortunate business risk related to the shipping industry.

Let's see what happens when the pirates try to hold American warships at ransom :eek: This will be the real test. What say u? :D

denver
07-10-2008, 02:26 AM
Probably the only shipping company (and Govt???) that has openly declared that they had openly negotiated with and paid ransom to hostage takers and pirates.... :eek:


The French NEVER pay ransom. They never make excuses either.

That's not true. In April 2008, French ship owner DID pay ransom to the somali pirates to secure the release of the crew. Apart from French, the German ship owner also paid ransom, so did Denmark, Japan and Spanish Government. You can google this to verify. Because the Somali pirates got so much money from hijacking ships from all these countries, the pirates are becoming bolder and has increased their activities. It is unfortunate that Malaysia ships got hijacked next.

I actually support MISC's move to pay the ransom. As a company and a ship owner, it is MISC's responsibility to do whatever it takes to ensure the safety of their staff and crew. And MISC, just like the all the ship owners from Japan, Spain, Denmark and other countries, did just that. I'm glad that all the crews got back home safely.

I agree that paying the ransom is just a short term solution. The real (and long term) solution however, is not easy to achieve. Because it involves either 2 things: for Somalia to have a proper government that can control their citizens (and bandits). This is not likely to happen as Somalia has been without a functioning government for so many years already. Alternatively, an international coalition of navy forces to patrol and protect ships in the area, which is now beginning to happen through the new UN Resolution. And this only happens because only now the US is pushing for the UN resolution after the ship with the tanks got hijacked. Once the UN resolution is operationalized, and we have international navy forces patrolling the somali gulf, then these pirates problems should be significantly reduced, if not solved altogether.

AllUrban
07-10-2008, 01:42 PM
That's not true. In April 2008, French ship owner DID pay ransom to the somali pirates to secure the release of the crew. Whoa, that's correct, my mistake.

They would never pay in the past...maybe things have changed or the new government has changed this aspect of foreign policy? Paying ransom without operations...is very unlike the French foreign policy of the past.

Cheers, m

tsd
07-10-2008, 03:36 PM
looks like there is no need for "special force" anymore, whatever happened, just pay ransom, safer than rescue operations... perhaps it is cheaper than trainning and other expenses for the "special force" :)

Wan Wan
07-10-2008, 06:09 PM
looks like there is no need for "special force" anymore, whatever happened, just pay ransom, safer than rescue operations... perhaps it is cheaper than trainning and other expenses for the "special force" :)tsd - There is a need for "special force" by this gomen.
Just that it isn't for this occasion.
Have you already forget what the "special force" was used for?

tsd
08-10-2008, 12:15 AM
Pirates has reduced the ransom money for the ukranian ship. I suspect they are afraid of the Russian Warship and their special force. They knew when the Russian arrived, they will all be dead... better get the money fast.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5igGmlfz-K3g6EyC2vN8yK10vpCugD93LJ9E03

bslee
08-10-2008, 12:36 AM
UN should go into Somalia, round up all those pirates, put them on trial for crimes against humanity or send them to Guantanamo. Those pirates are no different from terrorists!. Terror on land or at sea..whats the difference?..criminals!....period. Or Malaysia gahmen reach out and use ISA on them!. dare or not?.

tsd
08-10-2008, 01:25 AM
UN should go into Somalia, round up all those pirates, put them on trial for crimes against humanity or send them to Guantanamo. Those pirates are no different from terrorists!. Terror on land or at sea..whats the difference?..criminals!....period. Or Malaysia gahmen reach out and use ISA on them!. dare or not?.

I got feeling the pirates are going to let the Ukranian ship free when the Russian arrives... there is already sign they are desperate to get out.

bslee
08-10-2008, 02:52 PM
I got feeling the pirates are going to let the Ukranian ship free when the Russian arrives... there is already sign they are desperate to get out.

United Nations going to do something concrete or not?..or its just another rigmarole of NATO... (no action, talk only!)..
The gulf area will be unsafe as long as piracy or the threat exist. Somalia have to cleaned up and only UN can do that..no 2 ways.

cskok8
08-10-2008, 04:46 PM
UN WAS in Somalia and left with its tail between the legs after the Blackhawk down incident. Do you think they will be back again?

UN policy is to send a peacekeeping mission, both sides to a conflict must have agreed to a peace deal and to accept UN peacekeepers. In Somalia, there is no peace to keep.

bslee
08-10-2008, 05:17 PM
If the Somalia gahmen (whoever they are) aren't doing anything to suppress shipping piracy, they're just as criminal and a rogue gahmen. No difference as with the pirates and a danger to all. A SHIP!..mind you A ship!.. not some hijacked Toyota Camry you can hide in some garage. The UN MUST do something to enhance safety in the high seas!. Where's our SUBS????... some hi-tech showpiece?...

AllUrban
08-10-2008, 07:30 PM
UN should go into Somalia, round up all those pirates, put them on trial for crimes against humanity or send them to Guantanamo. Those pirates are no different from terrorists!. Terror on land or at sea..whats the difference?..criminals!....period. Or Malaysia gahmen reach out and use ISA on them!. dare or not?.they did that and it was a disaster.

The issue in Somalia is foreigners trying to interfere. Keep the Ethiopians out. Keep the Americans out. Keep the Al-Qaeda out. Let the Somalians solve their own problems like they were trying to do since 1995.

cheers, m

bslee
08-10-2008, 08:14 PM
1995 is nearly one and a half decades ago. I think the country have gotten even worse and now its piracy on the high seas! These ARE THIEVES, ROBBERS and extortionists. I see them worse than probably a Al-Qaeda terrorist!.
I recommend "vacuum cleaner sweep up" operation!.. or blast them to hell for the sake of humanity and a safer sea for commerce. We thought Blackbeard and Captain Hook are stuff of legends.

msiablueskies
08-10-2008, 11:04 PM
If the Somalia gahmen (whoever they are) aren't doing anything to suppress shipping piracy, they're just as criminal and a rogue gahmen. No difference as with the pirates and a danger to all. A SHIP!..mind you A ship!.. not some hijacked Toyota Camry you can hide in some garage. The UN MUST do something to enhance safety in the high seas!. Where's our SUBS????... some hi-tech showpiece?...

how can we so sure that the somali gahmen and the pirates are not abang adik...they can sama sama wayang ...profit belakang kira ma share share lor...huh huh .

aurora97
09-10-2008, 12:17 AM
be realistic seriously, in the movies the good guys always wins with guns blazing, kicking down doors and coming out with just cut and bruises.

people do die lets bear that in mind and they never come back this is a fact.