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aurora97
29-06-2008, 04:18 PM
Dear All,

Need advise this is probably the strangest reason anyone have come across, resignation because of conscience.

I can't reveal the true details of my work because it will be in breach of company policy and also the name of the company. All I can say its big and public listed.

Like all companies profit, bottomline figure and customer satisfaction is number 1 over the rest, being on the job for less than a year coming to my anniversary. I have found that there r many so called "skeletons" in the closet, which after 3 audits fail to detect. My position though I am fresh, allows me to have an insight and depht view on the companies working (i.e. policies) and also sensitive info.

Losing my job because i disagree with the management and unwilling to execute my task is the least of my problems. What I fear most is probably the actions the management will take.

If I should execute the task, I put myself at risk of potential .... which i dare not imagine.

What should I say on Monday?

joker2107
29-06-2008, 05:06 PM
if you are the chief of army, all you need is to be a yes man to the pm and you will be very well endowed. but one former army chief actually let go of his job and all the perks that went with it (and would have followed after his eventual retirement) because his conscience said the pm was wrong.

it takes more than guts to walk the path of conscientious justice. what you politely referred to as "audits failed to detect" may actually have been auditors not allowed to comment issues. i have been in similar circumstances. i compromised with the auditors with a condition - we keep out big mouths shut, but all irregularities must be rectified to my satisfaction within 6 months or they lose the account and somebodyelse will come in to blow the cover. (and shame them in the process).

in your case, it is probably not that simple. you may want to stay on to firm up your authority and evidence. or you could walk out. if you walk, you could keep quiet, or you could cope that the securities commission is trustworthy.

there are other options. think more deeply, out of the box.

charis14
29-06-2008, 07:49 PM
It depends on the position and authorisation procedures. Are you the direct approving authority? If your role is basically to ensure everything has been properly approved by the relevant personnel, then the responsibility lies with the approving personnel.

For example, a company may 'buy' invoices from others for non-existent goods or services. The invoice needs to be properly authorised by the relevant personnel before being sent for payment. The accountant, though being the cheque signatory, is merely 'processing' properly authorised invoices, of which he was not directly involved in.

chewie
29-06-2008, 09:02 PM
it depends in what line are you in..is it banking ?? construction ?? financial ??

all have their own policy... especially if your company is a finanicial firm. its falls under BAFIA Act. Dont mess around with BAFIA as its very powerful. If you find that your management is asking you to do something against the law, dont do it. It will get you into trouble. Even there is email or even black and white asking you to do it, DONT DO it.

If you find that is still bothering you, resign or report to the authorities such as police. Safeguard yourself and your future..

sinleong
29-06-2008, 10:08 PM
it's hard to find a job these days. so i will not blame you if you do not resign and continue to work for these unethical people. in my opinion, u cannot blame a soldier because he is trained to carry out orders. the one to carry the responsibility is the manager, the officer! an employees first responsibility is towards his own livelihood and his family's. just because a company has a few rogue managers does not mean that the staff have to forego his job. he is employed by the company. not the managers!

don't resign. but keep documents of what you have been ordered to do. meanwhile confide in somebody you can trust to keep the secret. when the time comes, you can expose all when there is less or no risk against yourself.

tsd
29-06-2008, 10:20 PM
Dear All,

Need advise this is probably the strangest reason anyone have come across, resignation because of conscience.

I can't reveal the true details of my work because it will be in breach of company policy and also the name of the company. All I can say its big and public listed.

Like all companies profit, bottomline figure and customer satisfaction is number 1 over the rest, being on the job for less than a year coming to my anniversary. I have found that there r many so called "skeletons" in the closet, which after 3 audits fail to detect. My position though I am fresh, allows me to have an insight and depht view on the companies working (i.e. policies) and also sensitive info.

Losing my job because i disagree with the management and unwilling to execute my task is the least of my problems. What I fear most is probably the actions the management will take.

If I should execute the task, I put myself at risk of potential .... which i dare not imagine.

What should I say on Monday?

I have the almost the same situation like you... I have been with a company for more than 3 years, suddenly some management change and things starts to happen. I decide to quit my job than helping those people cheating company's money. I now regret that I quit my job because those people involved were eventually sacked ( 1 year after my resignation ). At first I was asked to come back, unfortunately this is an international company... they have a directive to freeze all intake and all IT jobs are now out-sourced... so I cannot join the company again.

Very hard to find job nowadays, I have been jobless for many years already and I am now in deep financial problem... until I have to take out my ancesstor's secret pau recipe to make pau for sales :(

My advice is, just work like normal... and more importantly keep evidence for your own defence, the time will come.

kwchang
29-06-2008, 11:11 PM
...If I should execute the task, I put myself at risk of potential ....
All the advisors to your problem did not see this one crucial comment.
It looks like you may be asked to do something that would jeopardise your integrity. In your place, I would ensure that any directive is given in black-and-white. If you were to carry out a command through verbal directive, there is no record to fall back on and you can be made to carry the burden of the consequences. My advice is to request for a written directive as you should not be made responsible for the results.

USJ27Resident
30-06-2008, 12:02 AM
Losing my job because i disagree with the management and unwilling to execute my task is the least of my problems. What I fear most is probably the actions the management will take.

If I should execute the task, I put myself at risk of potential .... which i dare not imagine....

Risk of potential what....

meaning if you do... CAN kena ... don't do, oso CAN kena...

Aurora... if your conscience is killing you... then it is better to walk away [resign] than to endanger your integrity or worst, your physical self...

(some how your story reminds me of the movie "the Firm". The John Grisham novel.)

aurora97
30-06-2008, 12:26 AM
Risk of potential what....

meaning if you do... CAN kena ... don't do, oso CAN kena...

Aurora... if your conscience is killing you... then it is better to walk away [resign] than to endanger your integrity or worst, your physical self...

(some how your story reminds me of the movie "the Firm". The John Grisham novel.)

My company is not governed by BAFIA but by Bursa & SCA. BAFIA is nothing when you have this two regulators shooting fireworks up your behind.

Well unlike "the firm" thank god my company is not a front for mobsters, they r nice people but with the occasional bad apples around.

Problem is my boss is so business focused that somehow for my boss, he decides to bend the rules abit and see how far till it breaks. Obviously for me I don't want to be there when it breaks.

My task is similiar as an enforcer of the company, to enforce company policies and regulatory laws, rules etc... problem is I am just a junior, my 3 (the 1st one left for better opportunity but leaving a ton of mess, the 2nd one she was no from the industry so literally got shreded to pieces and the 3rd one fell in to depression. It all happened in a span of 7mths), leaving me as the de facto officer in charge of all this rubbish. Every dirty linen has to be cleaned through my dept and I am sick of it.

HAN2
30-06-2008, 12:55 AM
You do it ONLY if there is clear instruction to carry it out in black & white.

Otherwise, when the sh!t hits the fan, its your signature on the paper.

If you walk away because of conscience, its self-respect and you sleep well.

Walk away when you're ready, with the entire dossier already tucked safely away somewhere.

Walk away, plan your move, but walk away.

SunwayK
30-06-2008, 09:18 PM
Conscience is always an interesting part of the human psyche that lives in the back of our brain. It supposedly separates us from animals, who do not really complain when you kicked them. And Conscience colleagues are normally more senior, called Manipulation & Greed.

From what you wrote, you are probably in an internal audit or compliance role for a PLC. It is likely that Bursa or SC, if looking for a scapegoat, will go after the Directors, rather than someone in a lower managerial position (no offence intended).

You need to realize that with ethics, some things are only wrong MOST of the time. If I needed to lie to move up the corporate ladder to feed my starving family, for example, conscience would remain quiet. In theory, conscience is right. I always say lots of things work in theory but in the end, one need to know which side of the bread is buttered.

HAN2
01-07-2008, 12:47 AM
From what you wrote, you are probably in an internal audit or compliance role for a PLC. It is likely that Bursa or SC, if looking for a scapegoat, will go after the Directors, rather than someone in a lower managerial position (no offence intended)

And the directors will push the blame to a lower scapegoat.... you can bet on that!

sinleong
01-07-2008, 01:13 AM
And the directors will push the blame to a lower scapegoat.... you can bet on that!

directors are still liable by law.
the worst that can happen to the employee is sacking. but directors still have to go to jail.

HAN2
01-07-2008, 01:59 AM
directors are still liable by law.
the worst that can happen to the employee is sacking. but directors still have to go to jail.
Of course, but can an employee face a sacking and stuck with a stigma? How to get the next job with that kind of reputation, rightly or wrongly?

sjie
01-07-2008, 09:46 AM
Would you be the one who will bear any liability? especially legal liability? If that is the case, i would suggest you walk away while you are still clean of any liability. If you are not the director or at the managerial level or would be caught under professional negligence etc and u are in dire need of a job, you may carry on. But bottomline best leave the job. for some offences, the test is only constructive knowledge (meaning u as a person of that position ought to have known) so it is actually a low threshold. Better avoid lawsuits then try to fight thru one.

aurora97
02-07-2008, 02:10 PM
thank you all for your replies, thoughts and comments had a long chat with my boss, though he asked me to re-consider i said i was firm on my decision.

Personally I cannot think or work with my conscience in tatters, slpless nights and my integrity being compromised. If such issues happens once its bound to reoccur somewhere in the future.

At the very least i part ways with the company amicably without spillin any blood.

chin_wan
02-07-2008, 02:30 PM
Be careful though. If you boss finds out that you have been telling stuff here he may not like it. A little digging on the forum shows that you were previously from Sabah. See: http://www.usj.com.my/bulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=20781

And good luck with your job hunt. I wish you nothing but happiness and success. :)

CS Chua
02-07-2008, 06:26 PM
thank you all for your replies, thoughts and comments had a long chat with my boss, though he asked me to re-consider i said i was firm on my decision.

Personally I cannot think or work with my conscience in tatters, slpless nights and my integrity being compromised. If such issues happens once its bound to reoccur somewhere in the future.

At the very least i part ways with the company amicably without spillin any blood.
Good choice. Go with your heart! I have 2 friends in high position in public listed companies who have walked out too. I did it in 1979 when I quit because of ethical issues with the company. So, you are not alone. Others have done it too.

Yes, there will be temporary set backs until you get back on your feet but God loves a righteous person and He will bless you with a better job in times to come.