Whole world Chinese in protest against CNN & BBC

[senghua]

1: http://www.wforum.com/newspool/articles/headline/115058.html

2: GUO MING TANG (Taiwan ) supports China http://www.wforum.com/newspool/articles/headline/115062.html

3: Napoleon once said: "If China wakes, the sleeping lion will shake the world." :D lets see those stupid Frence,what they have done. http://www.wforum.com/newspool/articles/headline/115064.html ( Chinese ) http://www.wforum.com/newspool/articles/headline/115016.html
http://www.wforum.com/newspool/articles/headline/115046.html
http://www.wforum.com/newspool/articles/headline/115023.html
http://www.wforum.com/newspool/articles/headline/115009.html
http://www.wforum.com/newspool/articles/headline/114968.html
http://www.wforum.com/newspool/articles/headline/114897.html

4: The Hypocrisy and Danger of Anti-China Demonstrations http://www.wforum.com/newspool/articles/headline/114895.html

[isarahim]

Whereas AFP has been a goldmine for conspirationists for a long time; it's 'facts' have in most cases been proven a mixture of hot air, exaggerations, outright errors, fantasy and real facts.

AFP's fact/fiction ratio is so bad, so that even us who are profoundly critical of Israel's machinations in Palestine, refuse to use it as a 'source'; since it is so unreliable that it will hurt the cause rather than support it.

It's still telling that no 'western' government has ever proposed that AFP be banned; despite it being fiercely critical of US, UK and the usual favourite conspiration targets.

In comparison, in China, a similar government critical news-agency could not survive for 10 minutes; may it be based on facts or not. Their journalists would simply be shot or jailed for life.

That's what's really telling in the previous posting.

That Chinese propaganda belittles several 100 thousand strong demonstrations as 'just a few Tibetian monks' we have talked about before.

That Chinese propaganda, with some success, twists a genuine people's demand for more self-governance into an entirely 'western driven independence movement' we have talked about before as well.

[bobkee]

An interesting bit that seems to have been missed out is how China has made this Nazi inspired (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_Flame#The_modern_era) Olympic torch relay (seriously Chang .. this isn't slander) into a political event as well while condemning others for bringing "politics into sports".

Make no mistake, Chinese nationalism is political.

[gtl]

tell me which country nationalism is not political?? American does it, Malaysian does it.

[senghua]

tell me which country nationalism is not political?? American does it, Malaysian does it.
uk does it, france does it,germ ..... :D

[isarahim]

I would put UK as major, mature and shining exception. And I would highlight Indonesia as an example of growing maturity.

After having run the largest empire the world has ever seen (1/4rd of lands, 1/3rd of population) UK became the best de-coloniser the world has ever seen.

Today, they are already onto the next step. The way they spur and promote increased self-governance for the remaining colonies, and even their own homelands such as Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales, UK is teaching the world the next lesson....

... that the only places for nationalism are in sports, arts, culture, music in which nationalism can help maintain the charm of a multifacetted and varied world.

The rest of the world will follow, may it take 25 years, 100 years or 200 years, each nationalist state at its own pace.

And I don't think the difference in maturity in this regard is necessarily an east west chasm. We just have to cut across the English channel to see how France is painstakingly holding onto Basque, Bretagne, Hebrides; in the former two's cases until recently discriminating and supressing the use of the Euskadi and Breton languages (whereas in Britain you rather see Cymru and Gaelic promoted!).

In contrast we can also see the relative maturity that Indonesia recently has displayed (albeit initially showing violent immaturity) in granting East Timor independence and allowing increasing self-governance for Aceh. Indonesia has shown far more un-nationalistic and mature mindset than for instance France (Basque, Bretagne, colonies) and Spain (Basque, Catalonia, colonies).

[sinleong]

2 sides can also play this game. if the rest of the concious world boycotts china, won't that hurt them too. china can see if they can survive on their own internal market. that would be interesting to see.

[isarahim]

Well I'm not sure if boycotts are the most effective way. Education? Nope. Most nationalistic leaders have huge egos and won't take lessons from anyone. Many of today's nationalistic leaders have even read Kenichi Ohmae's The End of the Nation State without getting a single word!

I'm not sure, apart from ridding themselves of Suharto, what made strongly nationalistic and Jakarta-centric Indonesia suddenly relax their view. Perhaps a working and transparent bottom-up democracy is the only answer.

In Aceh's case I have a feeling the aftermath of the Tsunami had some impact as well. Here you had had Gerakan Aceh Merdeka (GAM) fighting civil war/insurgency against Jakarta for decades acheiving nothing; and with a strictly anti Western propaganda to go with it; claiming that Suharto was nothing else than a running dog for the West.

Then came the Tsunami. A large part of Bandar Aceh washed away. The saying 'a friend in need is a friend indeed' goes through every heart; even the most extremist one. Now who was there to help? It was them! The 'enemy'! The 'enemy' was there first, flying in field hospitals, sending in warships packed with temporary houses and field supplies, sending in aircraft carriers with extra helicopters and thousands of aid workers. The enemy centering around the same 'hateful' anglosaxon gang; US, UK, Australia, Canada, New Zealand along with their cohorts Japan, Germany etc. The very same people GAM had blown up in Denpasar and Hyatt Hotel!

Where were the oil rich co-religious Gulf countries? Where was Malaysia? Where was China? Nowhere to be seen.

I think the facts on the ground really took the breath out of GAM. The extremist elements in GAM, whose minds were perverted and devoid of human principles and connection with God, crossed over to JI instead.

This together with the renewed democracy in Jakarta made it possible. The process is of course not completed yet, but it's well on the way.

I'd hope that the same thing could happen to Pattani and the other 'Malay states' in Thailand. But the Thai government demonstrates, regardless of ruling party, the same nationalistic immaturity, further exacerbated by a great degree of paranoia; very much - if you except the massive propaganda - similar to China.

And same thing, unfortunately, with Sri Lanka.

And history is full of examples where a government's demagogic paranoia as a response to a region's wish for more self-governance in itself pushes that region to seek independence even though this was NOT their intention in the first place!

So government paranoia often has the opposite effect!

If you've read US history; take a look at the first civil war a.k.a. independence revolution.

For a long time, the early US leaders, including Jefferson, Washington etc, stated vehemently that "we seek more influence over our trade and taxes, we do NOT seek to break with the King or with Britain!". But at that time, it was Britain who was the immature nationalistic country, London centric, with a yet not fully developed democracy!

Still! The first version of the US flag had the Union Jack in the upper corner (*), where the stars now are; and with both sides carrying various versions of the Union Jack into battle it's obvious that the people on the ground at the time looked at it as a civil war, literally brother against brother, and only later historians have renamed it 'independence war' since that's what it eventually led to. The British paranoia of not allowing the growing number of American states more influence over their economy and therefore their lives; and instead answering with military force; pushed them to independence even though that's not what they wanted from the outset.

(Personally I believe that had the British government at the time been softer and more mature in their approach; and had the Americans been allowed a smoother path to independence a la Australia and Canada we would have a much better world today.)

(*) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Union_Flag

[great]

http://byfiles.storage.live.com/y1pr9_JCBoAakbAsZ_wcNvp07MO4OmsSdT3Mz3gttgInaQU4CI f5v5CnEVMzI0KsFrz6IH5QWXFeLE
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m101/greatsunrise/100_0113.jpg
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m101/greatsunrise/100_0094-1.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m101/greatsunrise/101_0646.jpg

[layman]

we can argue till the cows come home on this issue.tibet was and have always been part of china since the formation of new china ie PRC 1949
whether to grant autonomy to tibet or xinjiang is china's internal affairs -its not the business of the international community to decide on the fate of a province of a sovereign country.trying to torpedo or 'hijack' the olympics under the guise of human rights is absolutely despicable act of a 'bully'

i think to understand contemporary tibet and china's claim of her as an inalienable part of PRC,we need to go thro the history of this region instead of relying on 'distorted'western propaganda and the myth of her spiritual leader-dalai lama etc.

[racheljansz]

we can argue till the cows come home on this issue.tibet was and have always been part of china since the formation of new china ie PRC 1949Is that your history?
What is so very wrong about the tibet people demonstrating for their own autonomy?


trying to torpedo or 'hijack' the olympics under the guise of human rights is absolutely despicable act of a 'bully'Right, tibet population of 2.6 million bully China who has an armed forces of 2.2million and reserved of 800,000, together with nuclear weapon and defensed budget of UD$80 BILLION!

What ever propaganda western or eastern or China,
what is so very wrong about the tibet people wanting their own autonomy?

[AllUrban]

for the record, CNN did apologize for the comments of their commentator...who is actually paid to make comments...based on his own opinion...which may or may not make people happy.... :confused:

Hmmmm...I think alot of this "insult" is just because people dont understand the style of comments and criticism in western culture. :rolleyes:

Cheers, m

[bobkee]

we can argue till the cows come home on this issue.tibet was and have always been part of china since the formation of new china ie PRC 1949Au contraire .. Tibet was invaded/liberated by PRC troops in 1951. Granted that the diplomatic status of Tibet is somewhat sketchy since the Dalai Lama did declare independence in 1912 (as did many individual Chinese provinces) from the Qing Empire after accepting the surrender of Qing soldiers but later recognised the ROC's suzerainty over Tibet in 1914.

Nonetheless, this isn't the point. Tibet is merely one of the many contemporary issues that China has been criticised for. If it isn't about Tibet, its about labour rights in China proper, or arms sales to the Janjaweed in Darfur, or lobbing missiles at the Taiwan Straits, or the ISA like incarceration of journalists and dissidents.

Tibet is a convenient smokescreen for China to avoid having to be accountable for these.

[isarahim]

i think to understand contemporary tibet and china's claim of her as an inalienable part of PRC,we need to go thro the history of this region instead of relying on 'distorted'western propaganda and the myth of her spiritual leader-dalai lama etc.
The reason why this discussion has come about is the totalitarian propaganda of the Chinese media. They are the ones bringing this domestic issue up to international level by betlittling the people's right to self-governance and for convenience jazzing up a 'western plot'.

There is no such plot.

[layman]

Is that your history?
What is so very wrong about the tibet people demonstrating for their own autonomy?

Right, tibet population of 2.6 million bully China who has an armed forces of 2.2million and reserved of 800,000, together with nuclear weapon and defensed budget of UD$80 BILLION!

What ever propaganda western or eastern or China,
what is so very wrong about the tibet people wanting their own autonomy?
a.yes its my history from the history books.perhaps your version is the one propagated by righteous west
b.u either deliberately misunderstood my statement on the 'bully' or you need english lessons
china has always granted tibet the liberty of an autonomous region after the annexation in 1951 .what history books are your referring to that claims tibet is being denied the privelege of an autonomous province?

[isarahim]

what history books are your referring to that claims tibet is being denied the privelege of an autonomous province?
Why are you referring to history books? We are talking about NOW. You cannot find facts about NOW in the history books.

The Tibetian demonstrators hold that the "Tibetian Autonomous Region" is self-governing by name only. Instead, they are marginalised and subdued by forced immigration of millions of Han Chinese. The Tibetians are treated like second or third rate citizens in their own land. They have no influence whatsoever over things happening in Tibet. Everything is decided from Beijing. Their language is suppressed, their culture is suppressed, their architecture is replaced by Chinese monuments. In phases Beijing has even introduced forced land redistribution, benefiting exclusively immigrant Chinese; while the original 'bumiputeras' are being left poor and landless.

That's the key issue.

Still the Tibetian people - at least the majority - do not demand independence.

But shouldn't the Chinese government, to the very least, be mature and considerate enough to give them Special Administrative Region (SAR) status a la Hong Kong?

If they could only do that. I think this problem would be solved.

[layman]

The reason why this discussion has come about is the totalitarian propaganda of the Chinese media. They are the ones bringing this domestic issue up to international level by betlittling the people's right to self-governance and for convenience jazzing up a 'western plot'.

There is no such plot.

yes china's state organ has absolute control over the dissemination of information -a timely reminder that PRC is in essence a COMMUNIST STATE WITH CAPITALIST CHARACteristics. China only open her doors in 1978 after the great helmsman deng xiao ping experimented with schenzhen as the SEZ which was an unqualified success leading to further opening of the doors to china.it was never the avowed intention to 'democratise' or 'liberate'the masses from the clutches of communism.in fact the chinese still steadfastly believe that china is still a very much impoverished 3rd world country which may collapse if measures are not taken to maintain the hegemony of the communist party.thus the state encourages 'capitalist' or economic liberation but not western style political reforms which most chinese believe can only take place when poverty is eradicated and the standard of education elevated to a 'certain' level

compared to the 'disintegration' of uSSR and the liberation of eastern europe china has been enormously successful by any definition in tansforming from a state controlled economy to a private one.

back to the issue of tibet,i think the chinese has ploughed in billions of RMB to develop this province with the not inaccurate accusation of government trying to 'dilute' the ethnic tibetan population by encouraging massive migration of the HAN people.

whatever opinion the west has on tibet-china is still the master of the destiny of the tibetan people.either dalai engages china in a dialogue to amicably settle the tibetan issue or else he will remian a leader in exile until death

[fonzie]

The neoconservatives in the corridors of power at DC are scared stiff of China's progress, and to a lesser extent the sovereign funds of non-Western countries. Recent economic developments in the African continent has China bought an African bank. Together with its economic co-operation with African states, it is now a force to be reckon with. (Read about the World Bank story in Africa?)

Some more China has the largest iron ore company in Australia as well. Therefore, Western interests are jealous/envy of such achievements! Watch the torch relay down under....;)-!

That's why I suspect these (Tibetan) protests have a hidden agenda. Sorry for the hopeless "China romanticism" in me for blurting out this!

Can your overtly "Western romanticism" accept such different opinions?

Cheers!
FonZie

[layman]

Why are you referring to history books? We are talking about NOW. You cannot find facts about NOW in the history books.

The Tibetian demonstrators hold that the "Tibetian Autonomous Region" is self-governing by name only. Instead, they are marginalised and subdued by forced immigration of millions of Han Chinese. The Tibetians are treated like second or third rate citizens in their own land. They have no influence whatsoever over things happening in Tibet. Everything is decided from Beijing. Their language is suppressed, their culture is suppressed, their architecture is replaced by Chinese monuments. In phases Beijing has even introduced forced land redistribution, benefiting exclusively immigrant Chinese; while the original 'bumiputeras' are being left poor and landless.

That's the key issue.

Still the Tibetian people - at least the majority - do not demand independence.

But shouldn't the Chinese government, to the very least, be mature and considerate enough to give them Special Administrative Region (SAR) status a la Hong Kong?

If they could only do that. I think this problem would be solved.


the degree of autonomy granted is the prerogative of the government of the day.it need not satisfy the interest of other countries
as to HKSAR major constitutional changes and any important issues related to soveriegnity of the ex colony is still vested in the corridors of power of beijing
again HK people faces an uphill task in trying to 'democratise' with the central government deciding on the pace and scope of 'democratisation' if any

[isarahim]

The neoconservatives in the corridors of power at DC are scared stiff of China's progress
No they're not, except for perhaps a few narrow minded cowboys....

It's overwhelmingly clear to me at least; when I read articles from business people in the more balanced and influential papers and magazines, e.g. The Economist, Forbes, Financial Times, WSJ etc, that the vast majority of people in power see China as a great opportunity. At present China enjoys the largest western funded FDI in the world, and western borders are, with a few notable exceptions (for health and piracy reasons), completely open to Chinese products.

So the allegation that west should be in any sort of way feeling 'threatened' by China is completely false. The business relations between West and China is as good as they've ever been.

No guys, I'm not romaticising with west. I'm just not buying this crap about 'western plots' that the Chinese propaganda machine is spewing out; and i find it remarkable that some people fall for it.

Furthermore, for all your badmouthing of western media and western views, a friend in need is a friend indeed. Where was the world's second largest economy when the Tsunami hit Aceh? Where was China? Where was the world's second largest economy when the earthquakes hit Kashmir? Where was China? Nowhere.

[isarahim]

china is still the master of the destiny of the tibetan people.either dalai engages china in a dialogue to amicably settle the tibetan issue or else he will remian a leader in exile until death
Well the last bit here is perhaps something we can build an agreement on.

I would only add, that it's also up to China to respect some self-governance; respect the Tibetians culture, undo some of the marginalisations and damage to their culture, repair errors of the past, allow the teaching of Tibetian in schools and discontinue treating the Han Chinese favourably over Tibetians in the latter's own country, including land.

It's a give an take from both sides.

And I should also point out that dalai lama is just a symbol, relevant or not. Contrary to some assertions, this is not primarily beetween him and China; this is between the Tibetian people and the government in Bejing.

[Shaneburger]

a.yes its my history from the history books.perhaps your version is the one propagated by righteous west
b....china has always granted tibet the liberty of an autonomous region after the annexation in 1951 ...

hi layman,

please answer rachel question: What is so very wrong about the tibet people demonstrating for their own autonomy?

I'll even add more: let the people of Tibet determines their own lives - call for an election referendum to see what the people want.

Tibet Boleh :D

[racheljansz]

a.yes its my history from the history books.perhaps your version is the one propagated by righteous west
b.u either deliberately misunderstood my statement on the 'bully' or you need english lessons
china has always granted tibet the liberty of an autonomous region after the annexation in 1951 .what history books are your referring to that claims tibet is being denied the privelege of an autonomous province?
No layman, I did NOT study the history of Tibet and China at all.
So I have no version at all.
I just see Tibetans Rakyat wanting a better control of their country.
So are you able to tell me why is that very wrong?

and yes English is not my 'mother tongue' and I kinda blur also if you write too deep,
kindly also enlighten me on how should I understood your statement..
trying to torpedo or 'hijack' the olympics under the guise of human rights is absolutely despicable act of a 'bully'

[fonzie]

....So the allegation that west should be in any sort of way feeling 'threatened' by China is completely false. The business relations between West and China is as good as they've ever been.

Uh...? I said DC not Wall Street...!

Cheers!
FonZie

[isarahim]

Uh...? I said DC not Wall Street...!
There is no difference....

....unless you meant David Coulthard....

[layman]

hi layman,

please answer rachel question: What is so very wrong about the tibet people demonstrating for their own autonomy?

I'll even add more: let the people of Tibet determines their own lives - call for an election referendum to see what the people want.

Tibet Boleh :D

a.this is communist china-demonstration is prohibited in china
b a referendum in tibet -province of china-my dear friend
are we talking about china or USA?

[layman]

No layman, I did NOT study the history of Tibet and China at all.
So I have no version at all.
I just see Tibetans Rakyat wanting a better control of their country.
So are you able to tell me why is that very wrong?

and yes English is not my 'mother tongue' and I kinda blur also if you write too deep,
kindly also enlighten me on how should I understood your statement..

a tibet is a province of china(a non negotiable soveriegnity issue) -in communist china any political dissent is muzzled and you either toe the official line or risk an imminent crackdown or life behind the prison walls
b the west under the pretext of human rights and using the olympics as a shield directly challenge chinese hegemony over tibet-they want an independent tibet which is a PROVINCE OF CHINA-in other words interfering with the internal affairs of PRC which of course invites complete rebuttal of the suggestion.

this further enrages the millions of chinese which would have gone to the streets if not for the state apparatus suppressing the displeasure of her country man

[racheljansz]

a tibet is a province of china(a non negotiable soveriegnity issue) -in communist china any political dissent is muzzled and you either toe the official line or risk an imminent crackdown or life behind the prison walls
so more ...life behind prison walls!?
waah .... sound like our own MSM being muzzled, UMNOputra political whip & M'sia's ISA.
Waahh...the way you put it, these china govt worse then the Indonesian, at least they give Acheh the right to govern their own self.
No wonder the poor things - enrages the millions of chinese, getting all the wrong info.
Thank for clearing up the china govt. propaganda clouds.
So layman, you are right, where can I join to protest chinese hegemony over tibet and help these tibetans?

[layman]

so more ...life behind prison walls!?
waah .... sound like our own MSM being muzzled, UMNOputra political whip & M'sia's ISA.
Waahh...the way you put it, these china govt worse then the Indonesian, at least they give Acheh the right to govern their own self.
No wonder the poor things - enrages the millions of chinese, getting all the wrong info.
Thank for clearing up the china govt. propaganda clouds.
So layman, you are right, where can I join to protest chinese hegemony over tibet and help these tibetans?

whats the moral of your story?
protestation against ?
are you talking about tibet or USA?
how would you feel if i stormed into your family hall to protest against your father 'scolding' of ur brother etc?the answer is obvious-mind your own business

[fonzie]

Some thing to read about the Dalai Lama. I thought REAL monks don't wear shoes...?

http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/books/2008/03/31/080331crbo_books_mishra?currentPage=all

Cheers!
FonZie

[chin_wan]

brader great....what is your point? I only see pictures in your post. Do you have a point to argue?

Anyway, I have said it in the Olympics Torch thread and I will say it again here. China needs to solve her human rights problem first.

[isarahim]

a tibet is a province of china(a non negotiable soveriegnity issue) -in communist china any political dissent is muzzled and you either toe the official line or risk an imminent crackdown or life behind the prison walls
Isn't this exactly what should be thoroughly criticised. And do you agree that China should stay that way?

b the west under the pretext of human rights and using the olympics as a shield directly challenge chinese hegemony over tibet-they want an independent tibet which is a PROVINCE OF CHINA-in other words interfering with the internal affairs of PRC which of course invites complete rebuttal of the suggestion.
And this is what you have gotten completely wrong. The 'west' is doing no such thing at all except in yours and the PRC's government's imagination.

[racheljansz]

whats the moral of your story?
protestation against ?
are you talking about tibet or USA?
how would you feel if i stormed into your family hall to protest against your father 'scolding' of ur brother etc?the answer is obvious-mind your own businessI WILL stormed into your family hall to STOP your father 'crackdown' hard by beating the daylights out of your little brother!
Why should I care about their other family member that do not do anything to prevent the little boy from being wreck!
I do not think the police would even mind!
I also think the public would have praised me.
If you are unable to comprehend what is happening,
alas, it is obvious that you have taken the blue pill.

Even though you have rightly say communist china - any political dissent is muzzled and you either toe the official line or risk an imminent crackdown or life behind the prison walls
but your mind is too emotion, too deep to know the truth.
I cannot force you to talk the red pill,
that you have to do on your own.

Thus, I don't expect an answer from you,
just think about this...
Penang resident gets their choice of government - a DAP government.
Taiwan gets their choice of government.
Hong Kong gets their choice of government.
Macau gets their choice of government.
So Tibetans Rakyat wants their choice of government,
Is that very wrong?

[Nowiam]

Some thing to read about the Dalai Lama. I thought REAL monks don't wear shoes...?

http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/books/2008/03/31/080331crbo_books_mishra?currentPage=all

Cheers!
FonZie

There are more than one type of 'real' monk in this world, just like there is more than one type of church or mosque religious leader. If shoes are sign of 'real monk' than have long way to go to understand 'real'.

If you mean to put down the man or what he stands for at least go for something higher up than his shoes lah! ;-)

[isarahim]

Well most importantly, this has little to do with Dalai Lama at all.

Pointing fingers at Dalai Lama is another PRC tactics to distract people's eyes from the real issues!

The issue is an uprising of several hundred thousand people in Tibet since PRC:
- has redistributed their land to Chinese immigrants
- is steadfastly eradicating and destroying their culture
- is deprecating their language
- is marginalising them in their own land
- is limiting their influence over their own lives to petty matters; while everything else is decided in Beijing, despite initial promises of autonomy.

This is the issue. All this talk about 'Tibetian monks' and 'western plots' are just the PRC's tactics to distract people's eyes and minds.

We can see in this forum how gullible some people are. They even purport that PRC controlled media should be more reliable than media subject to open debate and independent journalism, such as BBC. Let's not be that gullible and look beyond these smokescreens.

We recently read that the death-count in Sudan has now reached 300k. This is government militia hands. We should also ask the question, since PRC is a strong supporter of the Sudan government, what is PRC doing about that?

[fonzie]

Furthermore, for all your badmouthing of western media and western views, a friend in need is a friend indeed. Where was the world's second largest economy when the Tsunami hit Aceh? Where was China? Where was the world's second largest economy when the earthquakes hit Kashmir? Where was China? Nowhere.

Over here my friend....
http://www.terradaily.com/2005/050111202740.q1bv4mcp.html

Cheers!
FonZie

[fonzie]

There are more than one type of 'real' monk in this world, just like there is more than one type of church or mosque religious leader. If shoes are sign of 'real monk' than have long way to go to understand 'real'.

If you mean to put down the man or what he stands for at least go for something higher up than his shoes lah! ;-)

TQ for your explanations...be kind and don't read in between the lines of my posting...we are here to share and post (differing?) views...

Cheers!
FonZie

[layman]

I WILL stormed into your family hall to STOP your father 'crackdown' hard by beating the daylights out of your little brother!
Why should I care about their other family member that do not do anything to prevent the little boy from being wreck!
I do not think the police would even mind!
I also think the public would have praised me.
If you are unable to comprehend what is happening,
alas, it is obvious that you have take the blue pill.

Even though you have rightly say communist china - any political dissent is muzzled and you either toe the official line or risk an imminent crackdown or life behind the prison walls
but your mind is too emotion, too deep to know the truth.
I cannot force you to talk the red pill,
that you have to do on your own.

Thus, I don't expect an answer from you,
just think about this...
Penang resident gets their choice of government - a DAP government.
Taiwan gets their choice of government.
Hong Kong gets their choice of government.
Macau gets their choice of government.
So Tibetans Rakyat wants their choice of government,
Is that very wrong?


you reckon that Hk and macau got their choice of government-is this base on your figment of imagination or irrefutable facts?or just bull and get away with inaccurate facts?
get your act together be4 you engage another in an intelligent discourse
your blue and red pill-perhaps you need them to keep you alert researching in the library on oriental history instead of shooting from the hip
elections in tibet?referendum on the form of government in tibet?are you living in a different planet or time zone from me?

people power perhaps in the philippines or indonesia.in china well we need a warrior like you to spearhead the campaign for ELECTIONS in PRC :confused:

[bobkee]

Taiwan's choosing of their own government have occasionally been a subject of missiles lobbed into the Taiwan Straits by ...

.. no prizes for guessing ..

the People's Liberation Army of the People's Republic of China! :D

[firefox]

Whaterver said here The Olympics will still proceed and be successful and the Tibet issue will remain forever meaning it will always be part of China.

[bobkee]

That's true .. but the bonus is that helluva lot of people know the issues right now than before :)

[Shaneburger]

a.this is communist china-demonstration is prohibited in china
b a referendum in tibet -province of china-my dear friend
are we talking about china or USA?

Sorry lah brader, Tibet is NOT China, just a annexation by force since the 40s....all talks abt suppression...hahaha...remember this: the more you squeeze, the more they will escape ...

if PR can deny Umno 2/3 in Msia, I believe soon Tibet will be choosing its own destiny!

Free Tibet :D Tibet Boleh :D

[isarahim]

get your act together be4 you engage another in an intelligent discourse your blue and red pill-perhaps you need them to keep you alert researching in the library on oriental history instead of shooting from the hip elections in tibet?referendum on the form of government in tibet?are you living in a different planet or time zone from me?
I beg you pardon layman, but the one continually shooting from the hip is you. And now you're adding argumentum ad hominem.

If Soviet Union could fall (and quite peacefully too!!!), then PRC also can. No totalitarian regime lasts forever.

If there is international support for the people of Tibet, the better. It's important not to listen to the PRC propaganda machine, nor their running dogs, and voice our opinions about Tibet loud and clear.

[Nowiam]

Sorry lah brader, Tibet is NOT China, just a annexation by force since the 40s....all talks abt suppression...hahaha...remember this: the more you squeeze, the more they will escape ...

if PR can deny Umno 2/3 in Msia, I believe soon Tibet will be choosing its own destiny!

Free Tibet :D Tibet Boleh :D

True or not - the lesson of history is that things change and some things die and never come back. Once upon a time USA was not USA, and Australia was not Australia; yet many people want to migrate to USA or Australia and would frown at the Native Americans or Aborigines who cry for their 'freedom'.

China was not China 3000 years ago, and when the mongols invaded and changed Han China forever there was no reversal. Reality is not always fair, nor always unfair. Any suppression has its consequences, and every conqueror becomes also absorbed and evolves into something else as well.

Tibet may be 'free' one day or it may disappear - twenty years ago we probably would not believe China would be what it is today, nor what Russia is today.

What can we predict for ourselves, or for China, or for the world?

[isarahim]

Well said.

The current trend, the 21st century trend, is clearly towards de-nationalisation.

[fonzie]

If Soviet Union could fall (and quite peacefully too!!!), then PRC also can. No totalitarian regime lasts forever.

Don't lah...! If it happens you and I and a lot of people would go pokai man!.....

Be kind....!

Cheers!
FonZie
"cold sweat boss..!"

[bobkee]

Ahh .. so finally the air surut dan batu terkeluar ( 水落石出 ) :D

[fonzie]

Ahh .. so finally the air surut dan batu terkeluar ( 水落石出 ) :D

Care to elaborate so I can pose a response....;)-

Cheers!
FonZie