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View Full Version : Proposal to punish non-Muslims for khalwat



Shaneburger
02-04-2008, 05:17 PM
from http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2008/4/2/nation/20080402162105&sec=nation

remember this is just a proposal ...
but start of Syariah Law "enforcement" unto the Non-Muslims, indirectly via civil court?...

does umno needs to be more "taliban" in order to win the malay votes?

or is it election payback time?

enjoy the debate my fellow Malaysians :D

Dr. J George
02-04-2008, 05:48 PM
another rather stupid and senseless statement by people blind to the provisions of the Federal Constitution!

a non starter - statements like this come out from time to time - it did in the late 70's, 80's and again in the 90's!

Pay no heed to it! Bodoh punya kerja!

If only these 'same scholars' can concentrate on issues like how to handle fanaticism, corruption, cronyism, nepotism, incests, speedy remedies for Muslim women seeking divorce, child alimony and justice for physical and mental abuse, punishment for the male partner who lies, cheats and marries across the border etc to perhaps in some cases to a unsuspecting lass - but that may not get the attention of the media - does it? :D

same old re-runs - cukup lah! :D

PDL
02-04-2008, 10:28 PM
Close proximity (khalwat) is considered a crime to some but not to others.
Poligamy is considered a crime to others but not to some.
Why not look into this as well !

bslee
02-04-2008, 11:52 PM
I'm not surprised issues of "sexual offences" and punishment seems to takes precedence and more importance over 50 years of corruption, dishonesty, bribery, CBT, fanaticism and political abuse. Its because for the former, justice can be swiftly meted out or served. As for the latter, little hope for justice or it'll take till the next century.

Open the newspaper, if the left page is a story of some khalwat or zina, the right page is of some bribery or corruption case, I'd bet many would read the left page first and with more interest.

BTW, I happened to glance a credit card sized Islamic "marraige card" in someone's purse. I don't know if this is a recent implementation, but am confident not everyone is in possesion of one (for Muslim couples only).
I know I don't have it.

SJ18
03-04-2008, 01:56 AM
It's just a ploy by the "establishment" to drum up non-muslim fears on "islamic" laws. I think they r trying to indirectly tell non-muslims that if a more ultra islamic party is running the country, this is the "medicine".

Anyway, this will not fly as it infringes our constitutional rights !

firefox
03-04-2008, 07:38 AM
I say why worry unless you want to get involve with muslims and get caught.

Why look for unncessary trouble.

emw
03-04-2008, 09:22 AM
Lovely isn't it? So much for respect for a multi-ethic, multi religious society etc etc! I wish religious fanatics would keep their faith to themselves and stop trying to foist their ideas of right and wrong on everyone else.

People like these academics who are obsessed with judgment and punishment read the tiny fine print of their holy books and forget the big message: BE NICE! Obviously forgiveness, tolerance, and the old looking-for-the-beam-in-your-own-eye-before-bringing-out-the-magnifying-lense-to-spot-the mote-in-someone-else's has passed them by!

Me, I'm going out to my local coffee shop as usual. I'll mix with everyone and will continue to do so no matter what these fanatics try to do to create hatred among us all.

Ellen

isarahim
03-04-2008, 09:29 AM
trying to indirectly tell non-muslims that if a more ultra islamic party is running the country, this is the "medicine"
The irony of it all is that if you are really and truly 'ultra islamic'; and not a follower of various politically influenced deviational teachings; you would reject such suggestions as being entirely non-islamic.

Chia Hak Soon
03-04-2008, 10:31 AM
Many a time when I read of this Khalwat thingy on non-muslim , I am sad that the religiuos body in malaysia is misinterpreting the real Islam. My question is why are they so selfish of these guys to even suggest a ruling. Next , why is the reporter quickily take up this bait and sensationalise it. Why is there no minister ready to clarify it.

Every religion has its own doctrine and if one religion tries to impose upon others to follow theirs, then what happens. Can the Hindus insist that you do not eat beef in India or malaysia ? if for example we have an Indian controlled government.

Like one forumner sad, these are the rheotic statements that cause the present govt to lose the majority. They never learn don't they ? Instead of getting more efficient, transparent and good governance , they are back at their old tricks. What have the several autopsies programmes in the main T.V. done?. I think we are back to square one.

praetor
03-04-2008, 11:00 AM
Greetings.

From a legal stand point, no government can impose Syariah law onto non-Muslims. If they do attempt to impose in on non-Muslims, it is for a Islamic offence for non-Muslims. Does it make sense to any of you out there? Even if they want to carry it out via the civil courts, it holds no water for the simple reason of why are non-Muslims subjected to laws which belong to the realm of another religion? If that is the case, i say we give them a banana.

Ave!

AllUrban
03-04-2008, 11:00 AM
I told gf about this proposal

She said,


"they can come and get me!"


That's why I love her!

Cheers, m

bslee
03-04-2008, 12:20 PM
For crying out loud, why Malaysia can't be as harmonious as in 60's or early 70's.
Damn those politicians.!!

gary yap
03-04-2008, 02:50 PM
Sooner or later they going to have a standardised law governing all Muslim and non-Muslim. If the politicians is not going to use race and religion they have nothing to play about. To defend one's race but others might see it as terrorising another.

denver
03-04-2008, 03:44 PM
I don't think this is a big deal. This is just a "proposal". Any tom dick and harry can submit a proposal, but that doesn't mean that it will be approved. Many people don't realized that over the years, there have been many unrealistic and downright stupid proposals that has been submitted to the government by all sort of people. Needless to say, they were not approved. YOU can also submit a proposal to the government through any associations or bodies on any subject, if you want. Whether it's approved or not is a different story. I wouldn't be too concerned about this.

gary yap
03-04-2008, 03:48 PM
That is the problem. By submitting proposals you can see how fanatic a person is. Approve or not is another worry. If submit constructive proposal is something worth pondering but what if this Khalwat for non-Muslim is constructive to some? Anything can happen. Who'd expect S'gor to be govern by former opposition parties.

Shaneburger
03-04-2008, 09:10 PM
I say why worry unless you want to get involve with muslims and get caught...

firefox, do we practice segregation and let the moral police dictates our lives?

"a malay looking eurasian friend got caught when he drove his malay colleague home after working late in the office!" fbog :confused:

joker2107
03-04-2008, 09:42 PM
For crying out loud, why Malaysia can't be as harmonious as in 60's or early 70's.
Damn those politicians.!!

hello, hello, please be a wee bit more careful who you cuss. the bigots here -
(The Islamic Institute of Understanding Malaysia (Ikim) and Syariah Judiciary Department Malaysia) are not the politicians you and i, or for that matter, PAS or BN sympathisers voted for or against. they are the nothing-better-to-do-idle-minded-probably-result-of-overdose-of-sekolah-agama-and-islamic-university-training civil servants and/or self proclaimed civil-society-champions-under-the-guise-of-ngo who are releasing the frustrations of being trapped in a abyss of senseless void in their careers and lives. its a make believe sense of righteousness to psych up their imaginary intimacy with their allah. in the process, they have negligently forgotten and intentionally ignored the reality of religion, i.e. a personal relationship with the almighty of one's chosen faith. i repeat, personal relationship. and i repeat, one's chosen faith. interpret the emphasis as you wish - there's a profound depth of truism for those who are willing to open their eyes and ears and mind and heart and use the gifts of allah almighty in the way the almighty wished. politicians are at fault for allowing such malformed brains to be in public service, and for permitting the education policy which promulgates such ignominous ideology. fast forward to the future and we will have every such grad competing with each other to be the prophet of the day, a demi-god on earth, rewriting the holy books because their god failed to see what they see, because their god was less holy then them. read again, there is no condemnation of any religion here - its all solely, entirely, and purely a human issue, humans contorting religion to serve their own ends, humans uncomfortable with their professed faith, human psychological instability. christians, don't laugh - we have the jw's, the mormons, the moonies, a whole plethora of re-interpreted christianity with their own versions of a holy book, some promoting promicuisty among their own numbers, some demanding sexual submission to their religious elders. these perverts, according to social norms (no, i am not condemning any of these variants - people or ideology - i am just making reference to them as a comparative in the commoner social order), are low profile because they do not impose their ideology outside their circle even if they may have their own suspect methodology for recruitment.

joker2107
03-04-2008, 09:52 PM
Close proximity (khalwat) is considered a crime to some but not to others.
Poligamy is considered a crime to others but not to some.
Why not look into this as well !
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/reg_images/badge_reg.gif
difference of opinion is a crime to some but not to others. :D ;) :p :D

Rocky19
03-04-2008, 10:36 PM
body snatching is not enough. Now this..wonder how many people are of this view....still trying to divide Malaysians and hey religious is a good one to sue to divide since Malaysians have voted against racist politics.

http://www.malikimtiaz.blogspot.com/

praetor
03-04-2008, 10:53 PM
Greetings.

I think we need to remember some basic but really important facts. It is written in the Federal Constitution of Malaysia that all Malaysians have a right to practise his or her religion. At the same time, it also said no one can force his or her religion on another person against the person's free will. Since no one us here converted to Islam by force, so how are we to be subjected to Syariah ( it's Islamic to some of us) law? To my fellow Subang Jayans who are Muslims, i apologise to make the following statement. Can i force you to be a Christian or a Buddhist if you are a Muslim? The answer is a: NO!!! We have lived in peace side by side for years and i see no reason why on earth i can't be with my friends till 2 or 3 in the morning. Am i doing something morally questionable? I don't think so. We basicly go and have drinks (teh tarik okay? don't think anything else) as well as watch a football game. So live and let live IKIM.

Ave!

Joe Gomez
03-04-2008, 11:23 PM
I told gf about this proposal

She said,


"they can come and get me!"


That's why I love her!

Cheers, mlolllllllllll :D :D

jialat
04-04-2008, 12:31 AM
is it ok for me to fetch my malay female friend especially at night? just me and her in a car. i used to do that quite often simply becoz she has no transport to go home after work. :confused:

praetor
04-04-2008, 01:45 AM
Greetings.

Jialat, you will be jialat if you get caught should the new rule come into being. :p

Ave!

joker2107
04-04-2008, 02:01 AM
Jialat, you will be jialat if you get caught should the new rule come into being. :p

there is no new rule. it is only a proposal by some out of place imitation species. there will never be such a rule. its bet, unislamic as gambling may be.

kwchang
04-04-2008, 08:23 AM
Jialat had been banned because he was advertising his contact lens business on the Forum. His adverts appear in his signature but since he was banned, his signature no longer shows on the Forum.

Let this be a warning to all who think they can sneak their business adverts by pretending to be interested in community issues but actually advertising themselves

gary yap
04-04-2008, 08:55 AM
is it ok for me to fetch my malay female friend especially at night? just me and her in a car. i used to do that quite often simply becoz she has no transport to go home after work. :confused:

Make sure you both are properly clothe :D Reminded me of yesterday's news that the religious police chased after 2 couples in the car resulted in the car overturned and burst into flame... 3 died on the spot while the 4th on the way to the hospital. Rules are meant to be follow, it's how the handling of it. You get some over-zealous enforcer even holding hands in KLCC also kena.

firefox
04-04-2008, 09:10 AM
This issue is only a proposal its just deviate from the more urgent problems facing the country..so lets not fall for it.

Dr. J George
04-04-2008, 11:41 AM
'Malaysian Talibans types' know too well - we are all so predictable - the politicians and their media /spin masters know it - know that the country is at cross roads, FDA ? tourist arrivals ? impact of US recession on 'bolehland' !, political challenges are taking place making it all unsettling - UMNO is in deep turmoil and like other BN parties now facing being irrelevant - when u want to distract - throw in something like this or about a lass selling her body at 130 pounds - (as if this is not common here!)

We get 'irritated and distracted' while 'the thieves' plot on knowing they have us chasing shadows. :D

We should ignore fools who make statements not knowing about the provisions of the Federal Constitution and now without the 2/3 and the possibility of more cross overs - after looking at the consumer price index I think this is the least of our worries! :)

lord
04-04-2008, 12:02 PM
I on the other hand am happy these guys are coming up with such plans ala Taliban! Their 'grave' is getting deeper and that's a positive sign for the alternative front. Just 'suffer' for another 4 years or maybe shorter, they should be on their way out by then.

CCY
04-04-2008, 01:01 PM
Here's another angry ...very very angry man....
http://www.othermalaysia.org/content/view/174/1/

firefox
04-04-2008, 03:40 PM
Institute of Islamic Understanding (Ikim) said that Tuesday's report in the Star headlined "Proposal to prosecute non-muslims for khalwat" as entirely erroneous. Reported malaysiakini.

As i said the thread says its only a proposal but all got worked up.

Dr. J George
04-04-2008, 04:43 PM
I think it is more than that!

If indeed IKIM did not say that - then who is lying and attempting to mislead the public or at worst spin, on traditional fears!

Izatun Shari and the STAR also needs to clear misconception now created in the eyes of the MALAYSIAN PUBLIC!

AllUrban
04-04-2008, 05:13 PM
Institute of Islamic Understanding (Ikim) said that Tuesday's report in the Star headlined "Proposal to prosecute non-muslims for khalwat" as entirely erroneous. Reported malaysiakini.

As i said the thread says its only a proposal but all got worked up.Ikim now says there was never any such proposal...so we really got worked up about nothing

On the other hand...this shows us the power of ideas and the power of fear. Proposals have a strange habit of quickly becoming reality in bolehland. You never know what to expect.

But u know, m is happy. m knows the love and loyalty of a wonderful lady who fears no moral police :) :D

Cheers, m

Rocky19
04-04-2008, 05:25 PM
Institute of Islamic Understanding (Ikim) said that Tuesday's report in the Star headlined "Proposal to prosecute non-muslims for khalwat" as entirely erroneous. Reported malaysiakini.

As i said the thread says its only a proposal but all got worked up.
proposal so what...it should never be proposed in the first place. some things should never even reach a proposal stage. Making a proposal like this is bad and stupid. All malaysians have a right to get worked up on a proposal to take away their rights, if not proposal becomes reality.

now why did the press highlight it if they never even propose such a thing. The reporter made it up? As usual someone is misquoted. Maybe they are testing the water and later retract by giving all kind of excuses.

Shaneburger
04-04-2008, 07:02 PM
...it should never be proposed in the first place....

agreed rocky19 :)

what I won't give for a youtube :D

mitosblog
05-04-2008, 02:40 PM
a stupid proposal!

firefox
05-04-2008, 02:56 PM
a stupid proposal!

Yet it put so much of fear and distress to many of us.

ngwk68
06-04-2008, 11:05 AM
aldy 50 yr still talk abt this issue, why dont spend time think how to improve msia economy.....people rocket aldy shot to sky how many time aldy

555
06-04-2008, 12:11 PM
Syariah Judiciary Department Malaysia just want to gain some free publicity and attention from people.

Relax !

Rocky19
06-04-2008, 04:42 PM
http://www.othermalaysia.org/content/view/174/1/

gary yap
07-04-2008, 09:02 AM
With the trigger-happy demolishing of places of worship and keris-wielding stunts, any nonsensical-proposal will kena backlash. It's like the saying it without going through your brains.

smoothead
07-04-2008, 11:05 AM
People who make stupid proposals should be hung up by their legs (so blood will circulate to their heads faster) and slapped in the head till they come to their senses...if they have any sense at all !!!

gary yap
07-04-2008, 02:52 PM
Not really a good idea, cos their **** will follow through :D Then they'll be muddle-headed.

Shaneburger
07-04-2008, 06:50 PM
Institute of Islamic Understanding (Ikim) said that Tuesday's report in the Star headlined "Proposal to prosecute non-muslims for khalwat" as entirely erroneous. Reported malaysiakini.

As i said the thread says its only a proposal but all got worked up.

Syariah Lawyers Association of Malaysia (PGSM) is NOT giving up...looks like they are trying their best to "customise" our constitution :D

another mis-quote? from http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/81010

Malaysia Boleh :D

gary yap
08-04-2008, 09:07 AM
What's next? Force us to build a small surau in our compound in case our Muslim friends pay us a visit at our house? This proposal is getting out of hand.

praetor
08-04-2008, 11:17 AM
Greetings.

Let us all keep calm and make sure we do not over react to the proposal. I have a feeling if they want to amend our Constitution, they will fail miserably. In our society in this day and age, there is absolutely no place for insensible proposals like that and it will die a very natural death. No one would acknowledge such a silly proposal. The people gave a clear message in the GE: we don't want such silly people in power.

Ave!

Saruman
08-04-2008, 01:21 PM
I'm not surprised issues of "sexual offences" and punishment seems to takes precedence and more importance over 50 years of corruption, dishonesty, bribery, CBT, fanaticism and political abuse.

Wag the dog? Ignore the problem and create a smoke screen.

The amazing thing is that they are in denial. Blaming everyone and everything but their inability to see beyond their noses.

silver_bird
09-04-2008, 11:06 AM
To settle her 'Khalwat' case, the Constable demanded : " RM500 or have Sex with me "
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2008/4/9/nation/20890588&sec=nation

ginaphan
09-04-2008, 11:18 AM
Do our police have jurisdiction for 'khalwat'?

AllUrban
09-04-2008, 11:32 AM
Do our police have jurisdiction for 'khalwat'?sadly...if we dont know our own laws, our police can have "jurisdiction" anywhere.

m

gary yap
09-04-2008, 11:32 AM
Only in M'sia, anyone in uniform have the 'right' to catch you(even if it's out of their jurisdiction). :confused:

Shaneburger
09-04-2008, 12:30 PM
Only in M'sia, anyone in uniform have the 'right' to catch you(even if it's out of their jurisdiction). :confused:

is that the reason why RELA is always a popular choice?

see http://gerbang.selangor.gov.my/borangTop20.php

Malaysia Boleh :D

firefox
09-04-2008, 12:50 PM
Is Khalwat the only immorality of this country that the authorities seems to be drumming up very often how about accepting bribes, corruption, incest, wife/husband stealing etc etc.

gary yap
09-04-2008, 01:10 PM
The government should pool their resources in solving violent crimes than morally-challenged crime like khalwat. Reminded me few years back they mobilised(almost) the whole police-force just to catch those motorist with outstanding summonses instead of focusing on priorities.

joker2107
09-04-2008, 05:16 PM
this is a press release by sisters in islam (http://www.sistersinislam.org.my/). i hope the honourable mod does not feel that some media tycoon owns the copyright.

__________________________________________________ _________
QUOTE (verbatim except for last two para):
Sisters in Islam wishes to reiterate our strong objection to the current practice of moral policing by the state.

It contravenes the Qur'anic injunction laid out in various verses such as "do not pry into others' secrets" (Surah Al-Hujurat 49:12) and "Do not enter other houses except yours without first asking permission and saluting the inmates. If you are asked to go away, turn back. That is proper for you" (Surah An-Nur 24:27, 28).

The practice of barging into people's houses and bedrooms in particular, clearly violates an individual's right to privacy and human dignity protected by the Qur'an.

Such a practice is also not the norm in many Muslim countries.

Sisters In Islam calls on the religious authorities to focus their resources on chasing after errant fathers who did not pay maintenance to their children and ex-wives.
__________________________________________________ ________