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tohca
04-03-2008, 11:48 AM
I am just wondering what is it with pork and muslims (especially among Malays) that make it the most 'sinful' stuff in the world. I mean, the Malays are quite tolerant of things like gambling (if you do not believe me, just go to any KTM shop on a Saturday or Sunday - esp. around 6 PM, and you'll get what I mean), alcohol, smoking, accepting bribes and corruption. But when it comes to pork, it is sooooooo tabooooooo.

Muslims (Malays) can work in organisations that are involved in these 'haram' activities, but to have pork nearby is a no no. You see lots of muslims in working and also playing in casinoes, also at the 4 D shops.
You see muslims working in pubs.
You see lots of muslims on the take (no need to elaborate la...)
You know or are aware of muslims performing adultery and visiting brothels and other places of ill repute.
BUT, sometimes they go to great trouble just to dissociate themselves from pork. I'm sure some of you may have gone to the supermarket and bought a can of luncheon meat. Here you see the muslim cashier, go to much trouble to either ask you to hold up the can so that they can scan it, or will put their hands into a plastic bag before handling the can.
Many Malays will not enter a Chinese restaurant because of it.

In my opinion, this is probably one of the main causes of polarisation in Malaysia.

I have asked many of my Malay friends why is pork so haram? I get all kinds of reasons, but none really makes much sense. I hope you someone can put the picture right for me.

AllUrban
04-03-2008, 01:10 PM
I am just wondering what is it with pork and muslims (especially among Malays) that make it the most 'sinful' stuff in the world. I mean, the Malays are quite tolerant of things like gambling (if you do not believe me, just go to any KTM shop on a Saturday or Sunday - esp. around 6 PM, and you'll get what I mean), alcohol, smoking, accepting bribes and corruption. But when it comes to pork, it is sooooooo tabooooooo.

Muslims (Malays) can work in organisations that are involved in these 'haram' activities, but to have pork nearby is a no no. You see lots of muslims in working and also playing in casinoes, also at the 4 D shops.
You see muslims working in pubs.
You see lots of muslims on the take (no need to elaborate la...)
You know or are aware of muslims performing adultery and visiting brothels and other places of ill repute.
BUT, sometimes they go to great trouble just to dissociate themselves from pork. I'm sure some of you may have gone to the supermarket and bought a can of luncheon meat. Here you see the muslim cashier, go to much trouble to either ask you to hold up the can so that they can scan it, or will put their hands into a plastic bag before handling the can.
Many Malays will not enter a Chinese restaurant because of it.

In my opinion, this is probably one of the main causes of polarisation in Malaysia.

I have asked many of my Malay friends why is pork so haram? I get all kinds of reasons, but none really makes much sense. I hope you someone can put the picture right for me.I think this was answered in the earlier thread about halal food...

to keep it simple....pork is soooooooooooooooo haram (among some muslims and Malaysian muslims in particular) because it is easier to avoid pork...and drinking and womanizing and gambling are much more tempting...

That culture of avoiding pork (and dogs) has spread until people just follow it and dont even think about the reasons...

And yes, it does lead to polarization among some people...often, the same people who are so "anti-" already...

The worst part is that the polarization is happening on all sides...I know many IC families who have invited M families but the guests never show up (to the point that the IC families stop giving out invitations...and I also know of many M families who have issued invitations to their IC neighbours...but the neighbours never show up...to the point that the M families stop giving out the invitations...

personally, m (as in, Allurban) could not care less about pork...and I will not judge you for eating it...eat if you want...eat it in front of me if you want...but respect that I choose not to eat it, and please dont ask me to try one little piece.


Cheers, m

tupai
04-03-2008, 01:33 PM
pigs = swine fever
dogs = rabies
Q.E.D. for the mankind 2000years ago...It was good practice then. Like u certainly dont wanna go feverish then all rabid-drooling-saliva agoing amoking and then drop wriggling on the muddy ground and die with eyes wide opened, do u??

But in today's context? U tell me lah... (except that malaysian porky is still tainted with beta agonis :eek:

U check out the danish way of breeding porky for world consumption and tell me if the modern meat-eating-carniverous cattle agoing Mad Cow is any better???


Ok, doggy? Heck, I know so many muslims who have dogs as pet.They only have certain rituals in cleansing after touching their Rover,Max, Blackie and even Pepper.
Muslims in bolehland are conditioned from birth to 'hate' dogs...all wronglyinfluenced by myopic teaching that their religion hates dogs (isn't God all compassionate and all animals are his children too???)

Yang Ada Banyak anging lato tupai

p/s
chicken = SAR but lucky it happened in the 20th century else, it will also be a taboo meat for some :p

tsd
04-03-2008, 01:38 PM
one question from me...

how about other haram creatures, for example frogs...

if frog is touched, need to wash the muslim way or not ?

will muslim be offended if I eat frogs next to them ?

tupai
04-03-2008, 02:02 PM
one question from me...

how about other haram creatures, for example frogs...

if frog is touched, need to wash the muslim way or not ?

will muslim be offended if I eat frogs next to them ?


frog is amphibious...muslim cannt eat amphibious animals...maybe it gotta do with the birth of the religion right smack in the hot hot hot desert...animals there either live on land or in the oasis/water...so, whatever is outta water is sundried & truly dead rotten to eat leh :D

anyhow, many muslim friends got no problem sitting down wth me on the same table, watching me gobbling porky or padi-chicken, or whatever i wanna gobble and wash down wiht whisky, or brandy or beer or tuak or bacardicoke or plain water...

they respect my poison, I respect theirs. And they my friends. Not the hypocite-type fiends lah :eek:


yang Ada Banyak kawan2muslim latotupai

firefox
04-03-2008, 03:29 PM
We are we back to this issue again, we seem to be running out if issues I suppose.

tsd
04-03-2008, 03:56 PM
We are we back to this issue again, we seem to be running out if issues I suppose.

it only shows that even after 50 years of independence, we still dont understand each other. Why ?

JoeJaffar
04-03-2008, 05:22 PM
I am just wondering what is it with pork and muslims (especially among Malays) that make it the most 'sinful' stuff in the world...

In my opinion, this is probably one of the main causes of polarisation in Malaysia.

....


why does it made to sound like the muslims are the root of all problems in this world?

as with any religion, there are bound to be those are strict and orthodox, and there are those who are 'liberal', to use that term loosely.

La Vida Loca
04-03-2008, 05:59 PM
In my opinion, this is probably one of the main causes of polarisation in Malaysia.

I have asked many of my Malay friends why is pork so haram? I get all kinds of reasons, but none really makes much sense. I hope you someone can put the picture right for me.
What is the point of discussing this by the way. Sure, feel free to express your opinion in cyberspace but I find it quite tasteless and insensitive, even for me, a chinese pork consuming person. Your meat is another man's poison. To each his own. Why the need to discuss it at length. Discussing it and making statements like this is offensive, even though you disguise it as a question.

Pork is the main cause of polarisation! Aiyo brother, you damn sad la, worst than Khairy Jamaluddin.

tsd
04-03-2008, 06:00 PM
why does it made to sound like the muslims are the root of all problems in this world?

as with any religion, there are bound to be those are strict and orthodox, and there are those who are 'liberal', to use that term loosely.

Everytime this topic pops up, it always feels like someone is offending someone else and tensions starts to rise. It should not be this way, like what Billy Lim said in his poster, "Something is wrong". All we have been doing all these years are keeping these things under the carpet, refusing to even take a peak of what is acummulated under the carpet. Anything to do with religion is called "isu sensitive" and then no more further discussion. That will leave a question unanswered and it will appear again.

If a muslim decides not to touch/eat non-halal source, I am sure the non-muslims should not have any problem respecting that. However, there are some non-muslim who does understand why there is a need for all that. I think its the duty of everyone to explain why, without having to get offended by those type of questions.

AllUrban
04-03-2008, 06:02 PM
why does it made to sound like the muslims are the root of all problems in this world?

as with any religion, there are bound to be those are strict and orthodox, and there are those who are 'liberal', to use that term loosely.heheheh Dont worry about it JoeJaffar....Any question can be asked in any way...Im sure there is no intent to point ideas or thoughts in one direction or another...

tohca asked a question fairly, based on his own observations...and it deserves a fair answer...

I myself have lots of questions about different cultures and races, and I feel that there is no problem to ask these questions if you are asking innocently...because it is only through learning and understanding that we will be able to solve all these foolish ideas about race and religious differences...

my girlfriend (who is Chinese and buddhist) once innocently asked me the same question..."what is it about muslim people and not eating pork? Why do you dislike it so much?"

To which I just had to reply by asking (with a twinkle in my eye)..."jaan (dear/sayang), what is it about Chinese people and eating pork? Why do you like it so much?" :D

We had a huge laugh at that and learned alot in the conversation that followed...sad to say, others wouldnt find it too funny...their loss, that :cool:

Cheers, m

tsd
04-03-2008, 06:11 PM
What is the point of discussing this by the way. Sure, feel free to express your opinion in cyberspace but I find it quite tasteless and insensitive, even for me, a chinese pork consuming person. Your meat is another man's poison. To each his own. Why the need to discuss it at length. Discussing it and making statements like this is offensive, even though you disguise it as a question.

Pork is the main cause of polarisation! Aiyo brother, you damn sad la, worst than Khairy Jamaluddin.

if forumer tohca says that "Pork is the main cause of polarisation", that is what he thinks and believed... there is no reason for anyone to get offended by his opinion and thinking. We need to explain and make him understand the pork issue for muslims, if not he will always be thinking for the rest of his life that "Pork is the main cause of polarisation".

thkhong
05-03-2008, 07:55 AM
I remember my ex Malay boss use to tell me. When he was studying overseas, his 2 C. friends (who later were his partners) shared the same room together. As a matter of respect, they do not eat pork in front of him. Whenever they pork they go out an d eat. This is what I call respect and understanding. He was then appreciative of them and he told me this story with pride. However, things have change and old gestures are forgotten and suspicions creep in. They eventually parted ways after more than 50 years of relationship.

Politicians have been voicing out for tolerance. To me understanding and respect plays the major role. With understanding , you give respect and with respect you accept. Then there is no polarisation.

firefox
05-03-2008, 08:26 AM
it only shows that even after 50 years of independence, we still dont understand each other. Why ?

Cos we are self centered, racialists and looking for faults of others. But we dont want to admit it.

tsd
05-03-2008, 08:55 AM
Cos we are self centered, racialists and looking for faults of others. But we dont want to admit it.
fully agreed

Jaygee
05-03-2008, 09:40 AM
why does it made to sound like the muslims are the root of all problems in this world?

as with any religion, there are bound to be those are strict and orthodox, and there are those who are 'liberal', to use that term loosely.Would someone like to ask the Jews the same question ? :D

racheljansz
05-03-2008, 09:49 AM
God made a big mistake on the 8th Day, he created POLITICIANS!

abuaiman
05-03-2008, 10:04 AM
You might find this reply helpful:

Question:
I am an Arab living in Malta and I want to know the reason why pork is forbidden, because my friends at work are asking me about that.

Answer:
Praise be to Allaah.

The basic principle for the Muslim is that he obeys whatever Allaah enjoins upon him, and refrains from whatever He forbids him, whether the reason behind that is clear or not.

It is not permissible for a Muslim to reject any ruling of sharee’ah or to hesitate to follow it if the reason behind it is not clear. Rather he must accept the rulings on halaal and haraam when they are proven in the text, whether he understands the reason behind that or not. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allaah and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allaah and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed into a plain error”
[al-Ahzaab 33:36]

“The only saying of the faithful believers, when they are called to Allaah (His Words, the Qur’aan) and His Messenger, to judge between them, is that they say: ‘We hear and we obey.’ And such are the successful (who will live forever in Paradise)”

[al-Noor 24:51]

Pork is forbidden in Islam according to the text of the Qur’aan, where Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“He has forbidden you only the Maytah (dead animals), and blood, and the flesh of swine…”
[al-Baqarah 2:173]

It is not permissible for a Muslim to consume it under any circumstances except in cases of necessity where a person’s life depends on eating it, such as in the case of starvation where a person fears that he is going to die, and he cannot find any other kind of food, based on the shar’i principle: “In cases of necessity, haraam things are permitted.”

There is no mention in the shar’i texts of a specific reason for the prohibition on pork, apart from the verse in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “for that surely, is impure” [al-An’aam 6:145]. The word rijs (translated here as ‘impure’) is used to refer to anything that is regarded as abhorrent in Islam and according to the sound human nature (fitrah). This reason alone is sufficient. And there is a general reason which is given with regard to the prohibition on haraam food and drink and the like, which points to the reason behind the prohibition on pork. This general reason is to be found in the verse in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“he [i.e., the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)] allows them as lawful At‑Tayyibaat (i.e. all good and lawful as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons and foods), and prohibits them as unlawful Al‑Khabaa’ith (i.e. all evil and unlawful as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons and foods)”
[al-A’raaf 7:157]

The general meaning of this verse includes the reason for the prohibition on pork and it may be understood that in the Islamic viewpoint, it is included among the list of things that are evil and unlawful (al-khabaa’ith).

What is meant by al-khabaa’ith here is all things that will harm a person’s health, wealth or morals. Everything that leads to negative consequences in one of these important aspects of a person’s life comes under the general heading of khabaa’ith.

Scientific and medical research has also proven that the pig, among all other animals, is regarded as a carrier of germs that are harmful to the human body. Explaining all these harmful diseases in detail would take too long, but in brief we may list them as: parasitical diseases, bacterial diseases, viruses and so on.

These and other harmful effects indicate that the Wise Lawgiver has only forbidden pork for a reason, which is to preserve life and health, which are among the five basic necessities which are protected by sharee’ah.

See also the answer to question no. 751.

In the answer to question no. 26792 you will find important details on the rulings on worship and rulings for which the reasons are clear.

And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A

The answer is an from the website www.islam-qa.com
This website will answer all your questions with regards to Islam
according to what is in the Qur'an and the sayings of Prophet Muhammad saw. All of you Muslims or non-Muslims can find the truth via this website.
The only "sikap" that you need in finding the truth is "sincererity".
I pray to Allah the Al-Mighty that those of you who read this reply with
sincererity be given the guidance to find the truth. Amin.

abuaiman
05-03-2008, 10:17 AM
You might also find this (and so many articles in the internet)
interesting and will answer your question.

Pork, source of 'bad' bacteria: studies
CBC News, 28 December 2001
CHICAGO - New studies on food safety have found pork may contain even more dangerous germs than poultry. The findings were presented at the 2001 Interscience Conference on Antimicrobial Agents and Chemotherapy in Chicago. A team of researchers at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention tested nearly 600 packages of ground pork purchased from different grocery stores in five states. They found high levels of Enterococci bacteria, a common cause of food poisoning that is resistant to antibiotic drugs.
Scientists say patients who have antibiotic-resistant enterococcal infections have a death rate of 37 per cent. Enterococci were found on three per cent of ground pork.

"With pork chops or steaks, you've got bacteria contamination on the outside," says lead researcher Jennifer McClennan. And with ground meats, the bacteria are found throughout, making them more dangerous.

"You've got to make sure to cook (pork) thoroughly."

As a result, McClennan says cooks should follow stringent practices when they prepare pork and anything cooked less than medium is probably not a good idea. Another study presented at the symposium raised further concerns about pork.

Dutch researchers found the Enterococci bacteria in pigs cause more trouble for humans than the same type of bacteria found in poultry. The researchers recommended farmers use antibiotics sparingly on their animals. About half of the antibiotics given to animals worldwide are used so they can grow bigger and remain disease-free.

The continuous exposure to antibiotics can also alter the balance of good to bad germs, promoting the antibiotic-resistant strain of bacteria in the animal. Resistant strains can be passed on to humans when they consume the meat of the animal. Researchers found these bacteria in pork seemed to survive and thrive longer in humans than those found in poultry.


TQ.

isarahim
05-03-2008, 11:09 AM
As a result, McClennan says cooks should follow stringent practices when they prepare pork.
What do you indend to say here? That it's ok to eat if one follows stringent practices? ... ;-)

Chia Hak Soon
05-03-2008, 11:32 AM
Malaysian of all races were okay and live happily with respect , until religion of each race takes dominance. To me it is the selfish politicians that hijack the religion to gain political points. So please respect each other and never argue this endless topic. We are not alone.

cutebanana
05-03-2008, 01:23 PM
it is useless to argue this topic, because it is one's religions teaching. we have halal and non halal sections of food. and we are living happily (quite, most). to bring politics into this matter is tantamount to sabotaging the happiness of us living together happily in bolehland. we have enough serious issues that require dedicated and intelligent discussion, this topic by the way is not. that's my view.

kwchang
05-03-2008, 02:10 PM
Absolutely agree. I doubt if this topic is really intended to be educational. To get educated, well-meaning members in previous threads had already posted links to information sites for those who need information. Go look for them.

Muslims are not questioning the halal issue because they are clear and steadfast to their believes. Religion, afterall, is a declaration of faith. If one has faith, one will not have fear or questions.

Hence it is time to close this thread.