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pokemon
13-02-2008, 01:20 AM
With the recent payrise not more than 1 year ago, they still have the courage to do such things... Very Malu...!!! :(


http://www.asiaone.com/Travel/News/Story/A1Story20080212-49275.html

tsd
13-02-2008, 03:14 AM
hard to believe la...

hhtee
13-02-2008, 07:00 AM
well done! After 50 years of independence, this sort of things still happens (corruption)

firefox
13-02-2008, 07:27 AM
hard to believe la...

Me too, in broad daylight ..10 mins? with so many ppl rushing and queuing up to enter Malaysia :confused:

silver_bird
13-02-2008, 07:33 AM
The Businessman & his family should have lodge a report at the Causeway Immigration Office after immediately offering the hongbao and their passport endorsed.

blues
13-02-2008, 08:41 AM
The Businessman & his family should have lodge a report at the Causeway Immigration Office after immediately offering the hongbao and their passport endorsed.

why he didnt report ? hard to believe la

hhtee
13-02-2008, 08:47 AM
why he didnt report ? hard to believe la
it's written in the article that "he didnt want any trouble".

he reported but he reported to the newspaper

hhtee
13-02-2008, 08:53 AM
guys please have a open mind about this. I believe it is true because I too have "experienced" a similar situation. I really believe this story. It is good that it is reported.

But what happens next ?

a) the person in-charge would deny deny and deny (just to save face)
b) the news would die off
c) after the person in-charge denied, ACA would say, they denied wwert. so no investigation
d) when opposition e.g. Lim Kit Siang asks why nobody did any investigations? ACA would say, "no report wert, why investigate? Nobody gave a formal report"
e) corruption happens again.

come on guys. after 50 years of independence, we still see this. I bet after another 50 years, your grandchildren would experience the same.

I am voting for a change. DAP or PKR

siew.wai
13-02-2008, 09:10 AM
because of no complaining report from this Mr Cai, I was doubt that how true is this incident.

So far as I know, mostly Singaporean doesnt like Malaysian. Even their gov dun like our gov. Could it be some made up story?

Most Singaporean well-known to be a COMPLAINER (Kiasu). How come he din log a complain?

racheljansz
13-02-2008, 09:15 AM
With the recent payrise not more than 1 year ago, they still have the courage to do such things... Very Malu...!!! :(
http://www.asiaone.com/Travel/News/Story/A1Story20080212-49275.html
Guys, asking for 'hand-outs' have nothing to do with courage!
It has grown into 'our culture'.
Even the NEW foreign sampah collector knows our culture during this Chinese New Year period.
Suddenly from the normal 3 sampah collectors they balloon to 6! :eek:

It is so normal that it is part of our daily lives to put in some GREASE to expedite things in our favour or to 'kow tim' a traffic violation.
Hey! it is even part of our legal system, going by the revelation of Mr Lingam case. :D

Why is it so hard to believed! It is no more shocking!
Even Ms L.G. Jayanthi was given 'hand-outs' for her troubles.

firefox
13-02-2008, 09:39 AM
I am voting for a change. DAP or PKR

But BN tells Chinese to vote BN for easy living! is that so? has the Chinese benefited by voting BN. The majority do monoplise the wealth of this country and do live in luxury with their own sheer hard work.

silver_bird
13-02-2008, 09:50 AM
hhtee :
it's written in the article that "he didnt want any trouble".
he reported but he reported to the newspaper

I'm no fan of S'porean nor Custom Dept, but to be on a fairer side of the story, the Businessman should have reported immediately at Causeway office.
The In-charge Officer would then immediately search the Corrupted officer's pocket & booth for hongbao wrapper & cash.
If the In-charge refuses to obliged, the S'porean could threaten to call Police or report to ACA.
Then the newspaper report would be juicier & more credible.

layman
13-02-2008, 09:58 AM
I'm no fan of S'porean nor Custom Dept, but to be on a fairer side of the story, the Businessman should have reported immediately at Causeway office.
The In-charge Officer would then immediately search the Corrupted officer's pocket & booth for hongbao wrapper & cash.
If the In-charge refuses to obliged, the S'porean could threaten to call Police or report to ACA.
Then the newspaper report would be juicier & more credible.

reporting to the police?reporting to ACA? come on this is not singapore or HK!!!

silver_bird
13-02-2008, 10:16 AM
layman :
reporting to the police?reporting to ACA? come on this is not singapore or HK!!!
At least with the "black & white" report, he has evidence to his story.

layman
13-02-2008, 10:38 AM
At least with the "black & white" report, he has evidence to his story.
whats the objective of reporting this outrageous allegation?
to punish the perpetrators and a deterrent to committing similar 'crime'in the future

in all honesty and be truthful to yourself.do you see this happening in our beloved land?

racheljansz
13-02-2008, 10:51 AM
At least with the "black & white" report, he has evidence to his story.
Do it really matters?
It so much time and problem doing a report and, at the end of it a lawyer wrote the judgment!

Lingam wrote judgment for RM10m defamation
http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Wednesday/Frontpage/2156344/Article/index_html
Muthu : What does ACA stands for ?
Ahmad : Anti Corruption Agency
Alfred : But they offered RM3k to keep her silence ?
Ah Chong : Malaysia boleh-lah .....Malaysia memang boleh!

silver_bird
13-02-2008, 11:01 AM
Ok-lah, layman & racheljansz won the race.
Meanwhile, I gonna enjoy my 7th day of CNY.

tsd
13-02-2008, 11:06 AM
I personally don't believe such incident would take place in public like that. I dont think any officer would be that stupid to do such thing. Unless that fellow can produce video recordings like the Lingam ones, the officer would not be able to deny it saying that he was drunk while on duty :)

GreyShadow
13-02-2008, 11:21 AM
hey... we'll never know
after 50 years of independence, and 50 years of corruptions, maybe they have taken the corruption to a new level?

maybe they are following the footsteps of some certain ASEAN country's immigration officer, which you'll have to slip some cash into your passport else you won't get any chops?
I personally experience those when I went to country I and county C :rolleyes:

racheljansz
13-02-2008, 11:31 AM
Ok-lah, layman & racheljansz won the race.
Meanwhile, I gonna enjoy my 7th day of CNY.
Ai ya, no race to be won la.
Don't go forever like isabelle, cos I still value your contributions in this forum.
Happy valentine day to you.

hhtee
13-02-2008, 01:05 PM
Guys, asking for 'hand-outs' have nothing to do with courage!
It has grown into 'our culture'.
Even the NEW foreign sampah collector knows our culture during this Chinese New Year period.
Suddenly from the normal 3 sampah collectors they balloon to 6! :eek:

It is so normal that it is part of our daily lives to put in some GREASE to expedite things in our favour or to 'kow tim' a traffic violation.
Hey! it is even part of our legal system, going by the revelation of Mr Lingam case. :D

Why is it so hard to believed! It is no more shocking!
Even Ms L.G. Jayanthi was given 'hand-outs' for her troubles.
thanks rachel. Now, Siew Wai, you can see that Mr. Cai is telling the truth. Even the garbage collector asks for ang pao. That's blatant corruption.

It's like saying, "you don't give ang pao, I don't give you clean service"

hhtee
13-02-2008, 01:07 PM
But BN tells Chinese to vote BN for easy living! is that so? has the Chinese benefited by voting BN. The majority do monoplise the wealth of this country and do live in luxury with their own sheer hard work.
I still drive my lousy car. I got to admit, I voted BN last time. But what did I get ? Increased Crime, Increased Price (Barang Naik), etc.

hhtee
13-02-2008, 01:11 PM
Ok-lah, layman & racheljansz won the race.
Meanwhile, I gonna enjoy my 7th day of CNY.

silver bird, it's not a matter of "winning the race" but I think it's a reality. My friend lost his vehicle. Made a police report. Told the police where to retrieve the vehicle because he saw someone driving it. Until today, still cannot retrieve the car DESPITE my friend still seeing his vehicle being driven.

so, I wonder what's the point of a "black and white". I have advised my friend to "seek other alternatives"

hhtee
13-02-2008, 01:13 PM
I personally don't believe such incident would take place in public like that. I dont think any officer would be that stupid to do such thing. Unless that fellow can produce video recordings like the Lingam ones, the officer would not be able to deny it saying that he was drunk while on duty :)


dude, it does happen. I really don't know how to convince you. Rachel gave a very good example of the Garbage man.

Maybe it's just that you are lucky that you are not exposed to all these. Maybe your looks is very "gaya" that everyone thought you are a reporter who would report on corruption that you don't witness this. I really don't know why you don't believe.

hhtee
13-02-2008, 01:14 PM
hey... we'll never know
after 50 years of independence, and 50 years of corruptions, maybe they have taken the corruption to a new level?

maybe they are following the footsteps of some certain ASEAN country's immigration officer, which you'll have to slip some cash into your passport else you won't get any chops?
I personally experience those when I went to country I and county C :rolleyes:
Grey Shadow. Remember some wise guy said, "Money Politics is not Corruption because it does not involve public fund" or something like that?

well, slowly they will like you said, "take it to a new level"

tsd
13-02-2008, 01:25 PM
dude, it does happen. I really don't know how to convince you. Rachel gave a very good example of the Garbage man.

Maybe it's just that you are lucky that you are not exposed to all these. Maybe your looks is very "gaya" that everyone thought you are a reporter who would report on corruption that you don't witness this. I really don't know why you don't believe.

yep, you cant convince me on this... although I do agree that we have a serious corruption problem in the country. As for the garbage man, I dont give any angpow to them, my garbage is still being collected same like everyone else.

If corruption has reached to garbage man level... then I am afraid we have ourselves to blame. Why do we have to give them angpow to get our garbage collected? By giving angpow and hopes for better service compared to your neighbours is a corrupted practice itself.

kwchang
13-02-2008, 01:43 PM
Guys, asking for 'hand-outs' have nothing to do with courage! It has grown into 'our culture'. Even the NEW foreign sampah collector knows our culture during this Chinese New Year period..
Rachel, what you have posted is not new but your presumption is a bit flawed. I would say that it is NOT our culture to take bribes. I dare say it was a rotten practice (angpows for the garbage man) perpetuated by the past generation. During my father's time, he used to prepare angpows for the garbage man - either because
a) he is a nice man, wanting to thank the poor fellas who toiled the whole year or
b) he was afraid the garbage man would be less hardworking with our garbage if no angpow

The point I am making here is not the fault of the taker but the GIVER. If no one started it, it would not happen. For example, I notice that the garbage man in Kuchai Lama will come on CNY day (a public holiday, wahhh... so hardworking?) and sound his horn to tell everyone he is here and the residents come out with goodies for them. This had been going on for donkey's years. However, do you see that happening in USJ? Where I live, the garbage man don't do that because none of us start this practice.

Get the point?

chookyan
13-02-2008, 02:22 PM
However, do you see that happening in USJ? Where I live, the garbage man don't do that because none of us start this practice.

Get the point?
FYI, I live in USJ 6 and the garbage men came on their normal rounds yesterday. They even have the guts to knock at my front gate shouting for angpow. I simply refuse to come out or acknowledge them but since the car was in the porch, they presume that someone is in and just refuse to come out. Came out after they left and guess what, the contents of one of the tied bag was dumped outside the front gate as a 'message' and I am sure that they are other USJs who have experience this as well.

silver_bird
13-02-2008, 02:25 PM
Every Chinese New Year festival, I never fail to give a packet of Ground-nuts and few oranges to our Postman bcos he never fail to deliver my mail rain or shine. Even though my address was spelt wrongly (eg. 5/3C instead of 5/3D), he knows how to reach the rightful receipient. What's wrong in giving some cookies / goodies to our sampah collectors (unless they demand) ?
Pls make this world a loving planet to dwell in.

firefox
13-02-2008, 02:32 PM
Every xmas i give my garbage collectors enough cash for them to have a good meal and drinks, that makes them feel happy and so do I.
They never command or request for it i do it out for their honest living and hard life...Come on lah its only once a year show some love.

hhtee
13-02-2008, 02:38 PM
FYI, I live in USJ 6 and the garbage men came on their normal rounds yesterday. They even have the guts to knock at my front gate shouting for angpow. I simply refuse to come out or acknowledge them but since the car was in the porch, they presume that someone is in and just refuse to come out. Came out after they left and guess what, the contents of one of the tied bag was dumped outside the front gate as a 'message' and I am sure that they are other USJs who have experience this as well.
see! I mentioned earlier, it's BLATANT corruption. "Give Ang Pao or expect something not clean"

This is why you should do the following: -

X__DAP
___BN

hhtee
13-02-2008, 02:39 PM
Every Chinese New Year festival, I never fail to give a packet of Ground-nuts and few oranges to our Postman bcos he never fail to deliver my mail rain or shine. Even though my address was spelt wrongly (eg. 5/3C instead of 5/3D), he knows how to reach the rightful receipient. What's wrong in giving some cookies / goodies to our sampah collectors (unless they demand) ?
Pls make this world a loving planet to dwell in.
it's ok to give willingly of course. but to demand is not right (like you mentioned) but for chookyan's case, it's a bit different.

His arm is bent and twisted and since he didn't give the ang pao, they just broke his arm

hhtee
13-02-2008, 02:40 PM
Every xmas i give my garbage collectors enough cash for them to have a good meal and drinks, that makes them feel happy and so do I.
They never command or request for it i do it out for their honest living and hard life...Come on lah its only once a year show some love.
loving is ok. but forcing people to love is not! look at chookyan's posting.

coogee
13-02-2008, 02:42 PM
At least with the "black & white" report, he has evidence to his story.

Hi. I think you got to give that guy a break, what with family in tow and being a foreigner. I myself have faced this problem a few years ago but with the KLIA customs when I refused to give any bribe after I voluntarily declared all the wines I had brought back. The officer then pulled out a photocopy of own printed duty tariff from his shirt pocket and asked me to pay an exorbitant amount. I refused and asked to see the actual custom tariff book. For more than 15 mins this chap and others start pretending to look for one in the office and then the senior officer in charge came out to ask why then walked away. By then I was waiting inside their office, with officers asking the one serving what is happening.

In the end they told me there isn't a copy, yes in KLIA being an international gateway! By then everyone of the custom officers was aware but pretend to look the other way. Finally they asked me how much I want to pay and we settled for RM10 per bottle. Even then they have the cheek to ask if I wanted a receipt! I told them Badawi say no to such things and they gave me a further discount!! Believe you me, the whole gang is on the take!! I wouldn't have believed it myself if I had not gone thru it. Sad to say this went on a few times, the asking for 'want receipt' and 'photocopy tariff' part that is.This is Malaysia for you, rotten to the core.

hhtee
13-02-2008, 02:45 PM
Hi. I think you got to give that guy a break, what with family in tow and being a foreigner. I myself have faced this problem a few years ago but with the KLIA customs when I refused to give any bribe after I voluntarily declared all the wines I had brought back. The officer then pulled out a photocopy of own printed duty tariff from his shirt pocket and asked me to pay an exorbitant amount. I refused and asked to see the actual custom tariff book. For more than 15 mins this chap and others start pretending to look for one in the office and then the senior officer in charge came out to ask why then walked away. By then I was waiting inside their office, with officers asking the one serving what is happening.

In the end they told me there isn't a copy, yes in KLIA being an international gateway! By then everyone of the custom officers was aware but pretend to look the other way. Finally they asked me how much I want to pay and we settled for RM10 per bottle. Even then they have the cheek to ask if I wanted a receipt! I told them Badawi say no to such things and they gave me a further discount!! Believe you me, the whole gang is on the take!! I wouldn't have believed it myself if I had not gone thru it. Sad to say this went on a few times, the asking for 'want receipt' and 'photocopy tariff' part that is.This is Malaysia for you, rotten to the core.
thanks for sharing your story. I hope those who were not convinced, please be convinced now. Say coogee, you are Malaysian rite ?

firefox
13-02-2008, 02:46 PM
loving is ok. but forcing people to love is not! look at chookyan's posting.

i am just saying what i do during festival time, i even give ang pow to the postman, paperman and the drain sweepers.

hhtee
13-02-2008, 02:50 PM
i am just saying what i do during festival time, i even give ang pow to the postman, paperman and the drain sweepers.
yeah i know and you do it in good spirit.

but chookyan was "forced" to love

coogee
13-02-2008, 02:57 PM
thanks for sharing your story. I hope those who were not convinced, please be convinced now. Say coogee, you are Malaysian rite ?

Ya, still is for the moment.....let's see how the election results. A lot of us outside are getting really really sick of what is happening.

hhtee
13-02-2008, 03:20 PM
Ya, still is for the moment.....let's see how the election results. A lot of us outside are getting really really sick of what is happening.
yes. me too. I was very surprised that I visited a family during chinese new year and everyone was talking about voting the opposition. :)

pokemon
13-02-2008, 03:52 PM
yes. me too. I was very surprised that I visited a family during chinese new year and everyone was talking about voting the opposition. :)

Talk is one thing.. What they vote may be another... :eek:

layman
13-02-2008, 04:20 PM
i am just saying what i do during festival time, i even give ang pow to the postman, paperman and the drain sweepers.

giving angpow on your own volition is entirely different from demanding for one particularly from the civil service!!!

chookyan
13-02-2008, 04:31 PM
yeah i know and you do it in good spirit.

but chookyan was "forced" to love

To be honest I do give oranges, groundnuts, ang pow during CNY and even drinks at other times but it came a time when they started choosing when kind of garbage they want to collect and what they don't want to collect - that was the limit. I do give an ang pow to my postman even though he don't ask as he delivers my letters rain or shine and I appreciate his service , but to have your front gate knock and shouting for ang pow is another thing....

Just look around in USJ every morning the Alam Flora people who are suppose to cleaning the area ended sleeping in the parks.

racheljansz
13-02-2008, 04:47 PM
The point I am making here is not the fault of the taker but the GIVER. If no one started it, it would not happen.
Get the point?
In this case it is the fault of the Taker for asking.
kwchang, I do not think it is fair for someone to take advantage of one's altruism, Mr Cai's racial background and it being CNY period.

Traditionally Chinese gives Ang Pow during CNY and it is given to young or unmarried person or less fortunate or as an act of filial piety to parents/very old relative.

My parents like their forefathers/mothers, have always give to those less fortunate during CNY but not every Ah Too, Ah Kow or Ah Hwa that they met or greeted by.
I remember my grandfather giving ang pow to the 'pia sai' man after swapping a new bucket for the family throne room.
He tells me that it is only once a year & during this occasion he wish to make the man and his family happy. During those days the 'pai sai' men are usually uneducated, and not able to find better job than this.

Back to the present, when some relative or friends forget to give Ang Pow to my children, we do not go asking or demand for it!

Why should the Chinese be forced or hold to ransom to give Ang Pow if they do not wish to give?

pokemon
18-02-2008, 07:22 PM
Another incident on possible corruption...??? :mad:


http://travel.asiaone.com/Travel/News/Story/A1Story20080218-50253.html

hhtee
19-02-2008, 11:57 PM
That's why I voted BN last time. I was hoping that they could wipe out corruption. it's a time for a change. Last time, there were not SO MANY articles about our Malaysian "corrupted" personnels and it is time to put a stop to it!

worse! Lingam videos, videos of police asking for bribes, etc. are all over Youtube!

uchangeng
20-02-2008, 09:24 AM
The bribe giver is just as guilty as the taker! Don't give la and see what the officers can do to you.

I met many government offficers like that over my 40s years in this country. At the immigration, traffics police, even security guards at our old parliament house,given half a chance, always in the look out for some form of monetary "reward". Did I give? Yes, in the early days, back in the early 80s. At that time, I took it as giving to "charity", afterall, how much those low ranking officers make a month? Living in cramped government flats and look "deprived" in a big city like KL.. So, it was for charity, that was my thinking.

Now, 2008, Pak Lah is the PM., all the slogan about anti-corruption, have we really improved?

I don't think so.....

yvonnefoong
24-02-2008, 07:29 PM
This reminds me of an experience I had in KLIA last December. As many knows, I am suffering from NF2, a genetic disorder that left me with multiple disabilities. I can walk, but need help in carrying heavy luggages. I am also deaf.

I flew EvaAir that provided me special attention from LAX, Taipei, and finally KLIA's ground crew did the same.

In 2007, I traveled to L.A. four times, and that was my fourth. The crew at KLIA was a young indian girl a little older than I. She was the same person who helped me on my third trip home. Having spent some blessed times with Malaysian migrants in L.A. I got accustomed to the tipping culture among them. When the average American man on the street living in a middle-class city receives kindness, they are obviously grateful and some would even return the favor. Being disabled myself, I was the receiving end of such kindness.

So when I got back to Malaysia last December, I was surprised to be helped by the same indian girl who single-handedly carried my luggages from the conveyor-belt onto the trolley and accompanied me to my parents. We don't see this sort of kindness in K.L. everyday, what more kindness out of duty for those with special needs? I was very grateful because I could never carry the luggage myself. Out of a thankful heart, I offered her an RM10 tip. I felt bad because I was privileged to visit a foreign country while she had to work at the airport. (I know it's quite silly to think like that. Hehe)

But after giving her that tip, I wonder, hey, was I encouraging corruption? What if she makes it a habit and expects money for doing her duties? Ooops! After all the tipping culture in Malaysia is still foreign while corruption is rampant.

Hmmm... ambiguities!

layman
25-02-2008, 10:28 AM
This reminds me of an experience I had in KLIA last December. As many knows, I am suffering from NF2, a genetic disorder that left me with multiple disabilities. I can walk, but need help in carrying heavy luggages. I am also deaf.

I flew EvaAir that provided me special attention from LAX, Taipei, and finally KLIA's ground crew did the same.

In 2007, I traveled to L.A. four times, and that was my fourth. The crew at KLIA was a young indian girl a little older than I. She was the same person who helped me on my third trip home. Having spent some blessed times with Malaysian migrants in L.A. I got accustomed to the tipping culture among them. When the average American man on the street living in a middle-class city receives kindness, they are obviously grateful and some would even return the favor. Being disabled myself, I was the receiving end of such kindness.

So when I got back to Malaysia last December, I was surprised to be helped by the same indian girl who single-handedly carried my luggages from the conveyor-belt onto the trolley and accompanied me to my parents. We don't see this sort of kindness in K.L. everyday, what more kindness out of duty for those with special needs? I was very grateful because I could never carry the luggage myself. Out of a thankful heart, I offered her an RM10 tip. I felt bad because I was privileged to visit a foreign country while she had to work at the airport. (I know it's quite silly to think like that. Hehe)

But after giving her that tip, I wonder, hey, was I encouraging corruption? What if she makes it a habit and expects money for doing her duties? Ooops! After all the tipping culture in Malaysia is still foreign while corruption is rampant.

Hmmm... ambiguities!


tipping and soliciting for a bribe or offering money for an advantage is entirely different social behaviour

would you (able or diabled) 'tip'in your language an immigration or custom officer in any airport in the world just becos he stamped your passport 'quickly' or allowed you to clear customs without checking luggage?its preposterous that you even suggest that tipping and bribing threads a fine line!!!

try doing that in sing or hk ,you will know what the consequence of bribery is all about.offering a token sum to a 'helper' on your own volition cannot be construe as bribery.am i bribing someone if i reward the waiter or usher in your case 10 ringgit for good service?thats socially acceptable and infringes no laws.however,giving 10 ringgit to a public servant for service rendered can/may be construe as offering an advantage -bribery

USA may have a tipping culture.in australia,japan,china and malaysia tipping is not expected.well,its your prerogative to reward anyone with a small sum to show your appreciation of the service.however to equate bribery with tipping is a frivolous comparison by any definition

yvonnefoong
25-02-2008, 12:14 PM
I understand what you mean, Layman. My question is... does tipping unwittingly encourage greed in our society?

layman
25-02-2008, 12:37 PM
I understand what you mean, Layman. My question is... does tipping unwittingly encourage greed in our society?

thats another issue altogether!
greed comes in all guises.tipping is an appreciation of the servces provided-its not mandatory

in the USA tipping is deeply ingrained in their social norm-taken to another level.one is EXPECTED to tip with good or poor service.its in their social contract that one is expected to pay 10% of the bill to waiters as tip

yvonnefoong
25-02-2008, 05:34 PM
I am aware what tipping means.

I don't think the difference between tipping and bribery precludes the possibility of one receiving tips in our society becoming habitual and start demanding for it in the form of bribes, withholding services, or lowering the quality of services until they receive tips.

But I'm not saying it as a fact that tipping encourages greed. It was just an open question.

This also applies in western societies. Homeless people do little, often needless things for passerbys to get a tip. This isn't bribery. But also one function of tipping precipitating another.