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sirgalahad2010
29-10-2007, 04:15 PM
It appears that the govt has made another policy flip-flop!

And it is strange that Chinese educationists and Johor MB Datuk Abdul Ghani Othman seem to have made common cause on this issue.

The whole policy of teaching English in the national curriculum has been "hijacked" by vested interests.

Never mind that competency (I was going to say "fluency", but that may be too ambitious) in English is essential to redress Malaysia's declining competitiveness.

And never mind that China, Korea, Japan and Vietnam are going all out to promote the teaching of English in their schools and universities.

Politics, it seems, is more important than competitiveness, at least in the Malaysian context, as far as the teaching of English is concerned.

And that damn well is a "political" statement! :mad:

bslee
29-10-2007, 05:21 PM
Doesn't matter to me anymore...my kids are now grown-up and have had all their tertiary in ENGLISH!.. I just pity the next generation caught in the middle and have EVERYTHING TO LOOSE with STUPID politicians helming the policies of our education system. If you have the money..MIGRATE!.. don't wait.. its JUST not worth it here..!

GreenBug
29-10-2007, 06:08 PM
To think that 5,000 students from China are staying with foster homes with Singaporean families and registered with local colleges just to learn English??? What is going to happen to our competitiveness?

Go to the Victoria Station restaurant for your favourite steak and try to tell the waiter/waitress or even the captain :

i) "can I have English mustard please?"
Bolih beri saya kicap kuning? or wasabe kuning?

ii) "I like my breakfast egg sunny side up"
beats me, I don't think I know how to say this in Malay

iii) "tell the chef I want my T-Bone with lots of tendons, please"
bagi saya T-Bone banyak urat???

bslee
29-10-2007, 06:15 PM
Nothing surprising.. have you noticed how DISTORTED written and spoken Bahasa Malaysia has become?..partly due to sms'ing & internet chat culture

Some examples.. kete = kereta, sapa = siapa, lu = kamu, gue = saya/gua, camne = macam ini, kat = dekat.

Tell me its PROGRESS?.. progress down the longkang I presume!. Ask most youths of those words..they'd UNDERSTAND it fully..

GreenBug
29-10-2007, 06:40 PM
Nothing surprising.. have you noticed how DISTORTED written and spoken Bahasa Malaysia has become?..partly due to sms'ing & internet chat culture

Some examples.. kete = kereta, sapa = siapa, lu = kamu, gue = saya/gua, camne = macam ini, kat = dekat.

Tell me its PROGRESS?.. progress down the longkang I presume!. Ask most youths of those words..they'd UNDERSTAND it fully..There is already one generation of Malaysians who cannot speak & write proper English because the ex-PM's adventure with Malay-only education... and now they are not going to know "proper" Malay as well? aiyoh, I cry for Malaysia lah.

great
29-10-2007, 07:29 PM
English educate is hard for many students those whom native-tongue is other language,like Mandarin&Tamil.Using native-tongue to teach is such a nice way to improve,but other language maybe hard to understand.It will spend long time to study English.Although English is powerful language all over the world,native-language still not to be forgot,like malay aphorism“Bahasa Jiwa Bangsar",if a nation can't speak their mother-tongue,it's betray to the nation.Tun Sir Tan Cheong Lock state,"for those who not support Chinese Education,he won't be considered as Chinese".Sekolah Cina dan Sekolah Tamil better way to continue teaching in their native-tongue,Like many countries Japan,Korea,China,they even can't speak English,but the developing are very fast.To enhance an Education level is not to using English to teach Math and Science,it's should find a better way.

kwchang
29-10-2007, 07:31 PM
ii) "I like my breakfast egg sunny side up"
beats me, I don't think I know how to say this in Malay


The right sentence for "egg sunny side up" is telor mata lembu - good to know that when you go to the egg-station at the hotel in Malaysia when having your breakfast one day ... but of course, they also know the "sunny-side up" or "over easy" terminologies too :)

Anyhow, coming back to topic, the gist of the matter is mainly the reluctance or lack of confidence in teachers to teach in English when they are already familiar with the medium of instruction used previously (Mandarin or Malay).

Let us not blame the politicians.

isarahim
29-10-2007, 07:50 PM
telor mata lembu
Actually that should be 'telur' in the aligned BI/BM spelling....

isarahim
29-10-2007, 08:08 PM
Although English is powerful language all over the world,native-language still not to be forgot,like malay aphorism“Bahasa Jiwa Bangsar",if a nation can't speak their mother-tongue,it's betray to the nation.
I think you are completely on the wrong track here. No one is proposing replacing Malay with English, despite the fact that one could well argue (a point of view I agree with) that English deserve to he raised to national language level, similar to what has been done in Singapore.

Like many countries Japan, Korea, China, they even can't speak English, but the developing are very fast. To enhance an Education level is not to using English to teach Math and Science, it's should find a better way.
This argument is thoroughly flawed. Malaysia is not Japan, Korea and China. Malaysia is a country which:

1. Has a strong historical and cultural affinity with English.
2. Depends on English for a very large share of its trade.
3. Sees Foreign Direct Investment as a continually strong contributor to economic life. And one of the key competitive factors we have (over Thailand, China and others) for attracting FDI is English.
4. Has a legal system that, albeit heavily tampered with, is still based on English Common Law.
5. Has a system of governance, system of banking, system of education, system of healthcare etc which are still ultimately based on Commonwealth practices (UK, Australia, India etc).
6. Has large corporations, where English is the mandated language of communication, e.g. Petronas.

These put us in an entirely different category compared to the examples you mention. We are more comparable to India, where English has played and still plays a pivotal role in the growth of the country. India is the largest English speaking country in the world.

The worst thing that could ever happen to Malaysia, and which is already about to happen, is that the country effectively split in two classes; those that know English (upper class) and those that do not know English (lower class).

racheljansz
29-10-2007, 08:29 PM
Doesn't matter to me anymore...my kids are now grown-up and have had all their tertiary in ENGLISH!.. I just pity the next generation caught in the middle and have EVERYTHING TO LOOSE with STUPID politicians helming the policies of our education system. If you have the money..MIGRATE!.. don't wait.. its JUST not worth it here..!It does matter to me! cos my kids and only in secondary school and I am not so rich or young enough to migrate.

Nevertheless, I have already prepare them for the other 2 main language that is English and Mandarin.

I too pity the students that do not acquired some form of mastery in these 2 languages.

Both these language are the key to good jobs, advance knowledge and globalisation. Take a look at the job vacancies ads and you will being to notice a trend.

Looks like majority of the population will not in competition for good jobs.

racheljansz
29-10-2007, 08:51 PM
..like Mandarin&Tamil.Using native-tongue to teach is such a nice way to improve,but other language try teaching mandarin to small kampong kids who tells you that they do not have to master mandarin/science/maths cos they will inherit or just work in their father's farm/orchard/fishing fleet.


..Like many countries Japan,Korea,China,they even can't speak English,but the developing are very fast.Does that meant we don't speak English we also can develop very fast?

As far as I know many influential people in these countries knows english even though their pronunciation is not the queens english or speak very little and they do not see other language as BARRIERS to success, or betray to the nation but an opportunity to be strong.

bslee
29-10-2007, 10:54 PM
Looks like majority of the population will not in competition for good jobs.

Its this likely and obvious reason this country of ours will LAG behind the competition and the wealth divide will be even greater...need I rant on who are largely to blame on the policies and governance that'll run down this country to beyond redemption?.. nahh.. its all obvious!.. just that they're not admitting the true situation, or want the rakyat to discuss openly about it!...(there's pride at stake mah!..) just look at the mentality and attitudes in the highest office of the land..(the parliament?..BOTH sides are to be blamed too and most are not innocent either).. well educated and very civilized ah???... I think not!.

Just THINK!.. if pride and arrogance had been put aside in favor of continuance of having English Language as a medium of instruction, since the colonial days.. Me think that we'd have a very different Malaysia right now...instead what are we facing now?... confusion after confusion and we're NOT progressing to higher levels!.

Both the DPM and his cousin are from the same secondary school I attended, I damn well KNOW and experienced EXACTLY the kind of secondary education and circumstances they had..no difference from my own. THEY NEVER COMPLAINED?..they NEVER felt BAD about it, they NEVER talked BAD about it?..so what the heck are they confusing parents of today and logically set to modelling our education system to what is being practiced in developed countries?. The rakyat is certainly all taken for FOOLS!.
Kalau "tak boleh"..CAKAP TAK BOLEH...don't go out kidding everyone..

xaviers
30-10-2007, 09:41 AM
If I read between the lines... it said that the chinese people wanted it to be on hold...

We are becoming like "frogs under the coconut shells"

Even people China is forcing their students to master English... so.. we make our own conclusions

hhtee
30-10-2007, 09:55 AM
If I read between the lines... it said that the chinese people wanted it to be on hold...

We are becoming like "frogs under the coconut shells"

Even people China is forcing their students to master English... so.. we make our own conclusions

ha ha not chinese people. The first posting referred to Chinese educationist. I don't know who they are. I for one (saya cina kia), would not want BM. I prefer English.

If our local universities have done outstanding researches like building the best spaceship, creating a cure for cancer, etc. etc. and they have published journals and their research findings, then the world would look at Malaysia and say, "WAH malaysia is so good. they can do such a fantastic research". Then the whole world would say, "I wanna go to Malaysia to study but their language is in BM. So I have to learn BM". When this scenario happens, I don't mind our education is in BM.

I have friends who go to Korea, Japan, Germany, etc. and they have to study their language. but I doubt if foreigners come here, they would want to study BM. They may as well go over next door to Singapore to study.

Of course I don't want our national language to follow the West through literal translations e.g. cucuk dan main (plug and play), manhole (lubang orang), etc. :)

hhtee
30-10-2007, 10:08 AM
Even Japanese Learn English while doing aerobics

HAR HAR HAR HAR

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmbsSw81Uww

Is The Taxi On Its Way?
Let Me Off At the Next Corner.
Take Anything You Want.
Spare Me My Life!
I was robbed by two men.
I will get started on it immediately.
Let's go Dutch.

ginaphan
30-10-2007, 02:08 PM
Let me tell you that there are some ppl that actually believe this sh*t*.

The teachers in my kids' school for example. They insist that these topics should be taught in Chinese only. Like you cannot do math in other languages! Duh! More like they don't know English, that's why.

My teachers who had to change from teaching Math and Science in English to teaching in Malay (this dates me, of course) did it. What's the difference?

Walk into any chinese shop today and all those young uns can only speak Mandarin. They panic or they become sarcastic if you want them to talk in dialect or in english. The chinese educationist have stunted them and limited their options.

Remember the days when the salesperson (black, yellow or brown) will speak in bahasa pasar, mandarin, hokkien, cantonese, engrish, - anything also can pakai. Did we not have more fun buying from them? Why? Because they could relate to us.

You know those illegal taxi touts in KLIA? Now those people can speak more languages than most of us here! Skills of the trade.

Regardless of what language, staking your life and death on one language is not a very smart thing to do. (Unfortunately, some of our politicians have pushed themselves into a corner on this one). Most successful people I know (be in English, Malay or Chinese or French or Spanish, or Korean or Japanese educated) actually speak more than 1 language. Perhaps, 1 or 2 out there differ but then they are smart enough to hire people who can.

I have a Malay friend who works from a big European telco company and was sent to China. So most ppl said "That's because he is Chinese educated" with pride in their eyes. But I don't think that is the only reason - how many millions are chinese educated so why him? Other than the fact that he is a very smart person, he also knows English very well. If not, how else will his matsalleh boss understand him (i.e. the boss can only hire if he has a way to communicate with you without a translator - unless of course, if you are some super scientist and you are the only one on the face of this earth that can do the job at hand)

Lest I am accused of digressing from the thread, I think this move is a move backwards. We need to allow our children to learn more languages and to give them the options they would otherwise not have.

firefox
30-10-2007, 03:05 PM
It takes an highly educated man to realise the importance of English as a media in important subjects if he is sincere in seeing his ppl progress along side with the other races.

great
30-10-2007, 07:22 PM
As far as I know many influential people in these countries knows english even though their pronunciation is not the queens english or speak very little and they do not see other language as BARRIERS to success, or betray to the nation but an opportunity to be strong.

English is just a tool to use,not means if know English is a better way to improve education.

Although Malaysian&Singapor know English,how's the technology develop?Malausia spend RM90million to send a an astronaut by Russian a spacecraft.Why Malaysian know English can't have own spacecraft?Why Malaysian can't send satellite to cosmic space by own technology?Why can't find any famous scientists in Malaysia.Why does Malaysia even don't have own instant Messenger,only can use MSN,Yahoo,rencently so many people use QQ,those foreign instant Messenger?Why Malaysia don't have own video space like youtube&Video google?

The issue is,many Malaysia are proud they can speak English better than Japan,Korea,China,but they don't know how to use this advantage to develop,can't compare with India,India can use English as a nice tool to improve education,to develop technology.India is famous as IT,and so many India cities are better and better,better than KL.The technology in India is develop as fast as China.