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GreenBug
09-10-2007, 12:58 AM
Take the case of White Sandwich Bread 400g like those from High 5 and Gardenia. The retail price of a standard loaf of this White Bread 400g is fixed at RM1.90 by the Ministry of Domestic Trade & Consumer Affairs under the provision of Control Price Act 1946... hey 1946... many of us were not even here yet. It was the British who decided in 1946 that white bread was important and made it a price-control item! Perhaps they thought Malaysians would one day have bread as staple food!

Now here's the shock and the fact :

THE CEILING PRICE PER LOAF OF WHITE BREAD IS RM1.90 AND HAS BEEN THE SAME SINCE 1996! Yes, 11 years and never increased a single sen!!!

Yet, during these past 11 years, fuel has increased from USD14 per barrel to present USD81 per barrel. Subsidy for industrial diesel was recently withdrawn. Multi-vitamins, a key ingredients in the enriched white bread baked by these big commercial bakeries, have increased 5-fold, yeast 4-fold, skimmed milk (another key ingredient) 7-fold.

And during these past 11 years, the price of High Protein Flour (not General Pupose or All-Purpose Flour) has jumped from USD175 to USD475 per bushel (about RM1,700 per metric tonne). The price will again rise to RM2,300 (about 30% rise!) by this December when the world shortage kicks in due to poor harvest in Australia and Canada.

Yet, the price per loaf has remained at RM1.90 per loaf for 11 years!

At least a 100 neighborhood bakeries in the country have shut down or closed shop. Those remaining switched to making buns and rolls and bake brown bread (not wholemeal but brown) just to avoid the Price Control Act to survive. Don't you realize even old bakeries like Federal Bakery don't make no white bread no more? Only High 5 and Gardenia remain as the only people baking white bread. Mighty White Bakery do bake white bread at 320g and sells them at RM1.20 per loaf - but these are basic white bread, not "enriched" white bread with vitamins and minerals. And trust me, the big boys like Gardenia and High 5 lose money for every loaf of white enriched white bread they bake to sell!

Price per 100g of enriched white bread in the region is cheapest in Malaysia, even cheaper than in countries like Indonesia, Phillipines, Thailand and Vietnam, where earning power & std of living is lower than in our country.

So, when we do complain about rising prices, lets be fair and complain with knowledge of the facts.

gtl
09-10-2007, 10:47 AM
Malaysia should get rid of all these ceiling prices and make it free floating based on demand and supply will enable the country to be more proactive and adaptable to the immediate scenario. need not to complain and complain everytime prices goes up........while our inflationary rates are well represented with REAL data and not surpressed data.

Salary review will be at REAL prices too and not surpressed inflationary data.

Right??

GreenBug
09-10-2007, 12:39 PM
For your info GTL, the Price Control Act was enacted during the days of the British in 1946. Since then, nothing much has changed. So it seems all the ministers that had ever helmed the Ministry of Domestic Trade & Consumer Affairs (which is the current name) semuanya tidor all along. It was enacted post-World War II and during the MPAJA / Communist insurgency period. And the law is still in effect and intact up to today, strange!

The government controls price of sugar and price of soft drinks not controlled. Sugar is a major ingredient in soft drinks manufacturing.

On the other hand, the government do not control price of Bulk Hi Protein Flour, Yeast, Vitamin additives, skimmed milk, but control the ceiling price of bread.

Where is the logic, man?

gtl
09-10-2007, 01:23 PM
Unfortunately our gomen politicize price control and use it to bait for votes. unfortunately with open market now, these mechanism is biting us back as we cannot reverse this policy. it will be seen as a political suicide if one reserve it.

So, we ended up again with a eskewed vision of our economy and not able to compete in the REAL global economy.

firefox
09-10-2007, 01:29 PM
Inspite of all this, these new so called kopitiams are laughing themselves to the banks they really do overcharge for a thin pair of toast and thin spread of margarine and kaya. They make a heafty profit on a loaf of bread....why not? Malaysians dont complain they got the money.

bslee
09-10-2007, 02:12 PM
Inspite of all this, these new so called kopitiams are laughing themselves to the banks they really do overcharge for a thin pair of toast and thin spread of margarine and kaya. They make a heafty profit on a loaf of bread....why not? Malaysians dont complain they got the money.

To be fair, I would agree that we're not getting value for money in eating, seemingly expensive to eat out but I think what dents the shop proprieters to break even is current shop rentals and other operational overheads that is unavoidable. Rental alone in prime areas is a killer factor. Oh well..this is subjective and there's obviously an imbalance thats not to the consumer's favor nor anyone can really do anything about it, EXCEPT to eat out less.

pepsi
09-10-2007, 02:24 PM
You know local HUP SENG biscuit increase price to RM3.15. :(
It was my favourite afternoon tea biscuit.... :p

spinner
09-10-2007, 04:31 PM
Perhaps, the govt does not need to give a single cents of subsidy on these thing, and thats why they dont bother to increase the price... Or maybe, they dont get any advantage when they help those companies to increase the price?

When the company suffers, it has got nothing to do with them, the most just they dont get the tax, but if the company makes profit, then they will be happily waiting for the tax, and then spend the tax money into the drain......

GreenBug
10-10-2007, 12:49 AM
I've just been told that the price of flour will go up by 60 sen per kilo this 16th October. This is it, roti canai is going to be rising again. Hmmm... so is bread this time, price control or no.

umadavid
10-10-2007, 01:14 AM
Include yellow noodles, biscuits, cakes, kueh-mueh, capatti...

GreenBug
10-10-2007, 02:22 PM
Today's The Star paper (on Page 24) has a report quoting the President of the Malaysian Flour Millers warning of a world shortage due to poor winter harvest of wheat in the northern hemispere (US, Canada and Russia) and a drought in Australia. World storage of wheat grains is also much depleted.

The last price increase of flour (all purpose), according to the same newspaper report, was in May at 15 sen per kilo to RM1.35, the first increase allowed in a decade. In the meantime, millers cover their losses selling the price-controlled all-purpose flour by increasing price of Hi Protein Bulk Flour to bakeries....

It is high time the government revisit the Price Control Act 1946, its killing the economy. Already, 100 odd small-time neighborhood bakeries had downed their shutters!

AllUrban
10-10-2007, 05:22 PM
this is going to have serious effects for a lot of people.

Greenbug can you post the link to that article? I need to have my students read it.

It would be interesting to revisit this issue when I give them back their essays on government intervention in the economy...

cheers, m

GreenBug
10-10-2007, 06:47 PM
AllUrban, there is a simple write-up in The Star today on Page N24. To get a better picture of severe wheat shortage or bad harvest for the last 4 years (which caused the current shortage) do go to Bloomberg website and google for "wheat, shortage, bad harvest, price" and there are many write-ups in there.

Choon1980
11-10-2007, 12:24 AM
AllUrban, EnergyBulletin is your friend. :)
World Grain Stocks Fall to 57 Days (http://www.energybulletin.net/17261.html)

And this was last year. Don't count on this year being any better.

Bloomberg posted this up on Merdeka Day as well.

Wheat prices reach record (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aHcDSwP5iCA4)

And Malaysians aren't the only people feeling the pinch either. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21195621)

Depleting worldwide reserves of grain isn't new. It's been happening for a few years already. Mexicans rioting over the price of tortillas is just the beginning of expensive food.

Global Warming.
Global Dimming.
Peak Oil.
Peak Water.
Peak Food.

Sure. No problem. We'll just techno-fix ourselves out of all these problems and let market forces solve everything. Hah!

AllUrban
11-10-2007, 11:41 AM
Thanks a lot...actually it's great to have this info as it is almost time for Halloween....

perfect time for a good scare!

Cheers, m

GreenBug
11-10-2007, 12:38 PM
As predicted.... an undated notice / circular by the "Protem Committee of Bakeries" has announced to their members (of which Gardenia & High 5 are not members) of a price-increase as follows :

"Bread 300g - up by 20 sen. All 20 sen goes to bakery.
Bread 500g or more - up by 30 sen
Single Filled Buns 50g above - up by 10 sen - 2 sen to be given to agent
6-pc Filled Buns - recommended to sell at RM2.20/ shop-price at RM2.00
Single piece cream bun - no increase at the moment - advise to take back 1 sen from agent / vendor
All other varieties - advise to increase by 20 sen

Price increase for bread - only on 1st November 2007
For all other products - after Hari Raya"

GreenBug
12-10-2007, 03:13 PM
Just to update....

The Malaysian Flour Millers Association has this morning faxed notice of a hefty RM600 price increase per metric ton of Hi Protein Flour. Expect your yellow noodles, cakes, bread, etc to be another 20-30 sen. Apparently this was done in defiance of the government's request to hold prices till after Raya or the General Elections. Its now mayhem.....

gtl
12-10-2007, 04:51 PM
GB,

just out of curiosity, if the factories stop producing flour bcs it is too expensive to import wheat, what can the govt do?

GreenBug
13-10-2007, 11:58 PM
GB,

just out of curiosity, if the factories stop producing flour bcs it is too expensive to import wheat, what can the govt do?Nothing the government can do. The millers are importing wheat grains at new spot prices and then milled these grains into either All-Purpose Flour (supply to households in 1kg or 5kg bags) or High Protein Flour (supply to bakeries). Since the former is price-controlled, the millers whacked the bakeries with ongoing price increase of high protein flour.

This is a vicious circle, since the price of white bread is under price-control, the bakeries will in the end kapoot! Which was what happened to about 100 small-time bakeries throughout the country. Do the government #%@& care?

The Ministry of Domestic Trade & Consumer Affairs and the Malaysian governnment just don't have the political will to resolve the problems.

Malaysian consumers also one kind. They can scream if the price of sweetened condensed milk goes up by 10 sen a can and they consume a can a week! Which will hit them 40 sen a month!

But when petrol goes up by another 20 sen per litre (likely 1st January) and toll goes up by another 10% (also 1st January) they diam-diam sahja! And they can pay $10.50 for a Twister Latte at The Dome at Pavillion plus a RM8.50 Blueberry Muffin....... hmmm betul-betul saya tak faham lah!

orchipalar
14-10-2007, 08:29 AM
Err buddy Greenbug...perhaps many here could be unaware...out of curiosity may be it would help if you could explain how the white sandwich loaves(n others) are baked from the bakeries...

While those at home would use the electric powered oven to bake...many many moons ago...Orchi worked at a bakery before which used Diesel fuel to fire their ovens...

Do modern bakeries still use Diesel fuel...or LPG...or electricity to fire their ovens?

pcyeoh
14-10-2007, 10:27 AM
Malaysian consumers also one kind. They can scream if the price of sweetened condensed milk goes up by 10 sen a can and they consume a can a week! Which will hit them 40 sen a month!

But when petrol goes up by another 20 sen per litre (likely 1st January) and toll goes up by another 10% (also 1st January) they diam-diam sahja! And they can pay $10.50 for a Twister Latte at The Dome at Pavillion plus a RM8.50 Blueberry Muffin....... hmmm betul-betul saya tak faham lah!
You can say that again. I just cannot comprehend how they can splash hundreds of ringgit in one night for food and entertainment and bitch so much about a 10 sen increase practically in everything. The government should not control price and spend so much of their energy and resources trying to enforce it without any results. In fact the govt should focus on protecting the consumers from being cheated by crooked businessmen as well as napoleonic bureacrats. These people are so crooked that when they die, they don't need a coffin or a hole dug in the ground to be buried in. We just screw them into the ground.

sirgalahad2010
14-10-2007, 05:10 PM
I read a report that the price of a loaf of bread sold in The Loaf bakery in The Pavilion is RM28 (approx S$12).

This is expensive. A loaf of wholemeal bloomer bread (low fat, 50% wholemeal, guaranteed no trans fats) from Cedele (one of the top artisan bakers in Spore) is priced at only S$6.50.

And a loaf of Gardenia High Fibre White bread costs S$2 in Spore.

GreenBug
15-10-2007, 09:54 PM
I read a report that the price of a loaf of bread sold in The Loaf bakery in The Pavilion is RM28 (approx S$12).

This is expensive. A loaf of wholemeal bloomer bread (low fat, 50% wholemeal, guaranteed no trans fats) from Cedele (one of the top artisan bakers in Spore) is priced at only S$6.50.

And a loaf of Gardenia High Fibre White bread costs S$2 in Spore.Hey SirG, Malaysia still has the lowest price per 100g of any bread in the region. White bread - RM1.90 per 400g loaf in Malaysia and the same loaf costs S$1.60 (about RM3.50), a similiar Gardenia Hi Fibre White in Malaysia is only RM2.90 and you paid S$2.00 (about RM4.60)...

The Loaf at the Pavilion is banking on the fact that it is owned by some Tun somewhere and got loads of publicity from its popularity at Langkawi. The bread is nice, in fact very nice, but I won't pay RM28 again, no way.

sirgalahad2010
16-10-2007, 09:26 AM
[FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium][SIZE=3]Hey SirG, Malaysia still has the lowest price per 100g of any bread in the region. White bread - RM1.90 per 400g loaf in Malaysia and the same loaf costs S$1.60 (about RM3.50), a similiar Gardenia Hi Fibre White in Malaysia is only RM2.90 and you paid S$2.00 (about RM4.60)...
/FONT]

Subsidised flour, sugar, margarine, electricity, water???

GreenBug
16-10-2007, 10:38 AM
Subsidised flour, sugar, margarine, electricity, water???Not true Sir, the only reason why white bread in Malaysia is still the cheapest in the region is because of the outdated Price Control Act 1946 of which the Mat Salleh Administration in the 1940s (after The Japanese Occupation and during the MPAJA / Communists Insurgency) thought that bread should be placed as a price control item. In 1991, the Government gazetted bread again under an amended act of parliament, how silly!

FYI, the last price increase for white bread in Malaysia was in 1996 - 11 years ago - when the ceiling price was allowed to be at RM1.90 for a standard loaf (about 400g). Since 1996, everything - yeast, hi-protein flour, vitamins, packaging, fuel, toll, electricity and salaries - was expected to remain the same - or so as the government thought! No wonder 100+ bakeries KAPOOT! What kind of government is this - holding bread price to win elections and let 100 bakeries closed shop?

The worse thing that can happen now is this - even if the price of flour has been allowed a 30 sen per kilo increase last September 15 and another 60 sen per kilo today (total of a whopping 90 sen!) - we may still be out of flour come CNY because the millers have not got hold of much wheat grains for milling, thats what my sources tell me. Worse thing is, one cannot store flour in the silos or otherwise there will definitely be hoarding. Looks like your yellow noodles will soon go up by another 60 sen per kati! (yes, they still use kati....) :rolleyes:

online12793
16-10-2007, 12:21 PM
A loaf of bread in Australia is AUD$2.80

AllUrban
16-10-2007, 01:08 PM
I just cannot comprehend how they can splash hundreds of ringgit in one night for food and entertainment and bitch so much about a 10 sen increase practically in everything. The government should not control price and spend so much of their energy and resources trying to enforce it without any results. In fact the govt should focus on protecting the consumers from being cheated by crooked businessmen as well as napoleonic bureacrats. PC, why do you think that people whine and complain? Well, it helps that the government encourages us to whine and complain by talking about "smart consumers" and encouraging people to tell the Ministry of Domestic Trade and Consumer Affairs about any "errant traders" or "price gouging" or "crooked traders"

And they tell us this regularly, through ads and government controlled news and press releases every time they get a chance....

If the government told Malaysians regularly that blowing hundreds of Ringgit on one night was a stupid, selfish thing to do...then more and more Malaysians would be picking on the big spenders...

instead the government encourages people to whine about 10 sen here and 20 sen there...and they send out their Ministry enforcers to pick on the "errant traders" so it looks like the government is doing something...

and when all else fails...they bring out the good-old "our prices are the lowest in the region" statement.

Problem is, it cannot last forever...costs will rise...so one way or another, we have to pay.

Cheers, m

firefox
16-10-2007, 01:15 PM
i was at cold storage and the bread was the same price...when do you think it will go up?..the less we talk about these increases the better what do you think?

But i have noticed the hawkers have reduced the quality and quanity of their noodles..anyway i dont like their noddles, too much of aji no moto.

GreenBug
16-10-2007, 01:40 PM
i was at cold storage and the bread was the same price...when do you think it will go up?..the less we talk about these increases the better what do you think?

But i have noticed the hawkers have reduced the quality and quanity of their noodles..anyway i dont like their noddles, too much of aji no moto.I think that with the wheat flour going up from RM1,385 per metric ton to RM2,285 per metric ton, the Ministry overseeing the Price Control Act has no choice but to 'allow' the price of bread to rise. November 1 increase of 20 sen per loaf to RM2.10 seems highly plausible.

GreenBug
16-10-2007, 01:49 PM
PC, why do you think that people whine and complain? Well, it helps that the government encourages us to whine and complain by talking about "smart consumers" and encouraging people to tell the Ministry of Domestic Trade and Consumer Affairs about any "errant traders" or "price gouging" or "crooked traders"

And they tell us this regularly, through ads and government controlled news and press releases every time they get a chance....

If the government told Malaysians regularly that blowing hundreds of Ringgit on one night was a stupid, selfish thing to do...then more and more Malaysians would be picking on the big spenders...

instead the government encourages people to whine about 10 sen here and 20 sen there...and they send out their Ministry enforcers to pick on the "errant traders" so it looks like the government is doing something...

and when all else fails...they bring out the good-old "our prices are the lowest in the region" statement.

Problem is, it cannot last forever...costs will rise...so one way or another, we have to pay.

Cheers, mWell Allurban, you have your points but in this case, I have to stick with PC Yeoh. There is nothing to stop the consumers whine and complain over a 10 sen or 20 sen price increase but the point is, we (the people & the government too) are barking up the wrong tree.

The economy should be managed as a "free economy" and let the basic "demand and supply" and "perfect competition" situations dictate on supply, demand and the general price levels. Why must the government dips its little finger into 'price control' and all these nonsense?

Just like when the tender for any project is awarded to lowest price in an orderly (read : transparent & good governance) the consumers will always get value i.e. best quality at best price. It is only when 'interferences' happen (like corruption or fixing tenders) then its the taxpayers and consumers who lose out.

Why spend so much on so many Timbalan Pengarahs, Penolong Pengarahs and this enforcement agency & that enforcement agency, why not just manage the economy on a hands-off basis. Isn't that the widely-accepted economic model that has been proven to work everywhere else in the world?

sirgalahad2010
16-10-2007, 05:16 PM
Not true Sir, the only reason why white bread in Malaysia is still the cheapest in the region is because of the outdated Price Control Act 1946 of which the Mat Salleh Administration in the 1940s (after The Japanese Occupation and during the MPAJA / Communists Insurgency) thought that bread should be placed as a price control item. In 1991, the Government gazetted bread again under an amended act of parliament, how silly!........
...FYI, the last price increase for white bread in Malaysia was in 1996 - 11 years ago - when the ceiling price was allowed to be at RM1.90 for a standard loaf (about 400g).
:rolleyes:

So, technically speaking, if The Loaf bakery sells a loaf of bread for RM28, it is breaching the law? ;)

GreenBug
16-10-2007, 05:25 PM
So, technically speaking, if The Loaf bakery sells a loaf of bread for RM28, it is breaching the law? ;)Only WHITE SLICED SANDWICH BREAD is under Price Control Act. Got sesame seeds (like The Loaf) technically can charge any price they like, thats how stupid the situation is.

Perhaps Gardenia & High 5 don't slice their white bread and increase the price? Ha Ha!

sirgalahad2010
16-10-2007, 05:36 PM
Only WHITE SLICED SANDWICH BREAD is under Price Control Act. Got sesame seeds (like The Loaf) technically can charge any price they like, thats how stupid the situation is.

Perhaps Gardenia & High 5 don't slice their white bread and increase the price? Ha Ha!

So, white sliced sandwich bread, which is high on the Glycemic Index, is price-controlled? That's not very nutritionally encouraging, is it?

Oh, well - cheap and tasty (never mind sugar content, saturated fat and trans fats) are hallmarks of the typical Malaysian diet. Good nutrition habits are expensive!

GreenBug
16-10-2007, 06:32 PM
So, white sliced sandwich bread, which is high on the Glycemic Index, is price-controlled? That's not very nutritionally encouraging, is it?

Oh, well - cheap and tasty (never mind sugar content, saturated fat and trans fats) are hallmarks of the typical Malaysian diet. Good nutrition habits are expensive!You're at different level Sir, for people on the ground filling the stummick comes first, nutrition belakang kira!

AllUrban
22-10-2007, 01:18 PM
Any bread price rise should be ‘reasonable’ (http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2007/10/22/nation/19238144&sec=nation)

Ironic that the minister is floating the trial balloon when the price increase (and date of increase) have already been decided....(according to Greenbug (http://www.usj.com.my/bulletin/upload/showpost.php?p=262897&postcount=59))

Cheers, m

GreenBug
22-10-2007, 05:29 PM
Any bread price rise should be ‘reasonable’ (http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2007/10/22/nation/19238144&sec=nation)

Ironic that the minister is floating the trial balloon when the price increase (and date of increase) have already been decided....(according to Greenbug (http://www.usj.com.my/bulletin/upload/showpost.php?p=262897&postcount=59))

Cheers, mAnd you have to repeat it again here? Aiyoh, what is it you are up to, man?

uchangeng
22-10-2007, 08:56 PM
"ceiling price " policy simply means when the government no longer able to control inflation, they use their political power to control the cost of essential items to avoid inflation-related riots at the expence of a certain groups of traders.

Chicken price is one good example. How many chicken farmers were forced to "gulung tikar" this past 3 years because of the rediculously low ceiling price?

The sugar price, we should import raw sugar at a competitive cost, but not. y?

I wonder when the polikus would wake up to the call of the Rakyat....Work-With-Me call is now but a publicity gimick, it is stale...even stink....

great
23-10-2007, 12:58 AM
The (rising) Price of Bread coz so many people which low salary have to more economize the use of spending

jianwei85
23-10-2007, 02:12 AM
im gonna get my loaf of bread from la boheme if their price remains constant after 1st nov..

denver
23-10-2007, 12:58 PM
Chicken price is one good example. How many chicken farmers were forced to "gulung tikar" this past 3 years because of the rediculously low ceiling price?

That's a good question. How many indeed have "gulung tikar" in the past 3 years? Do you have the numbers? I was under the impression that chicken farmers in Malaysia are one of the more stable and secure business because their products are always in demand. If there is any increase in overhead cost, they would increase their selling price to their distributors, which in turns raise their prices to the market sellers. The price control enforcement is more on the market sellers (the one who sells the chicken to the public), not on the chicken farmers. So the chicken farmers are the least effected. Unless I am mistaken. :confused:

GreenBug
23-10-2007, 05:00 PM
That's a good question. How many indeed have "gulung tikar" in the past 3 years? Do you have the numbers? I was under the impression that chicken farmers in Malaysia are one of the more stable and secure business because their products are always in demand. If there is any increase in overhead cost, they would increase their selling price to their distributors, which in turns raise their prices to the market sellers. The price control enforcement is more on the market sellers (the one who sells the chicken to the public), not on the chicken farmers. So the chicken farmers are the least effected. Unless I am mistaken. :confused:A look at how the feedmill prices has gone up (not less than 50%) will tell you that chicken isn't a lucrative business at all.....

gtl
23-10-2007, 05:42 PM
it is freightening when local poultry farmers closes down due to ceiling prices set by the govt, to meet demand we ended up importing chickens at a higher cost and revised the ceiling prices upwards, we suffer double whammy when we have to pay more for our imported chickens when we cud have support our local farmers. the price control mechanism is flawed as it is prone to outside rate levels.

GreenBug
23-10-2007, 06:15 PM
it is freightening when local poultry farmers closes down due to ceiling prices set by the govt, to meet demand we ended up importing chickens at a higher cost and revised the ceiling prices upwards, we suffer double whammy when we have to pay more for our imported chickens when we cud have support our local farmers. the price control mechanism is flawed as it is prone to outside rate levels.Figure this out GTL, the only local bakeries still surviving are those located in Johor where they sell most of their bread across the border to Singapore.

The only chicken farm still operating are also in the south where Singapore is their target market and those around Miri & Limbang selling into Brunei Darussalam.

Pig farming in the south has dropped because the S'pore government has diverted supply from Bintan Island.

So, do you think the Price Control really work or is it some political tool to hoo-ha you that "they" are doing something to alleviate the difficulties faced by consumers (read : voters) :mad:

Rocky19
23-10-2007, 11:57 PM
price control is not a good tool. Govt should do away with it. Let companies company compete among each other. But while they get rid of the price control, the govt should disband all kind of cartel organisation and have new laws which will prevent price fixing. Price control can make people lazy and less innovative. Is there no profits in price control? I don't think so. Price control can be good at times. Do companies reduce prices when they feedstock/ raw material goes down? Also with enough lobbying, you can get a favourable price control. Yes when materials shoot up by double digits, than hey you have to yell and scream to get a new prices.

IMHO let there be no price control. Competition without cartels will be the best as there will be companies who will be able to provide competitive pricing even under increasing cost. They may be more innovative or they can control their internal cost well. In price control situation and with cartel, most companies have no incentive to control cost. In fact they could fatten their cost in order to show increase cost in order to get a new price.

BTW the chicken farm company near my office has been growing and growing in the last 3 years.some how they have manage to be profitable..ehm wonder why?

Good Guy
31-10-2007, 11:39 PM
From 1st Dec, bread price will increase again. Then the cycle of mery-go-round in other prices turns again. :mad:

Very difficult for a retired person like me. :mad:

ng
01-11-2007, 12:22 AM
A lot of retired people are also complaining.

Furthermore, the interest rates are 3% instead of 6% several decades ago. :(

GreenBug
01-11-2007, 10:50 AM
The price of bread increase is effective today, at 5 sen / 100g of White Bread. That means for a standard 400g loaf, the price will be increased by 20 sen.

This increase is reasonable considering the fact that the price of flour has risen from RM1,385 per metric tonne in August to RM2,285 per metric tonne now. This is an increase of 65%! The increase in price of bread is only 10.5% based on RM1.90 to RM2.10.

About 70% of a loaf of bread consist of High Protein Flour. That means 70% of 400g = 280g of a loaf of bread is High Protein Flour.

At an increase of RM1.05 per kg, that means it cost RM0.30 more to bake a loaf of bread! What about the other 30% to bake a loaf like water, vitamins, skimmed milk, plastic packaging and the price of diesel?

In order for the bakery to continue to survive, this price increase is necessary. FYI, more than 100 neighborhood bakeries were closed this year alone throughout the country. The rest resorted to making buns and rolls as they are not under the government price control act.

For your information, the last approval by the Ministry of Domestic Trade & Consumer Affair was in 1996 when price of per standard loaf of white bread 400g was upped by 20 sen from RM1.70 to RM1.90 - that was 11 years ago!

These are the price comparisons of price of white sandwich bread in the region (all in 400g) :

Singapore : S$1.55 (RM3.60)
Thailand : 28 Bahts (RM2.76)
Phillipine : 32 Pesos (RM2.44)

From the information I receive, the prices above would be increased in these couple of days!

I understand and emphatize with you that as a pensioner, it is getting more & more difficult getting along now with prices ballooning up around us, unfortunately thats the reality. On the more positive side, a 20 sen increase per loaf (which should be for 2 days) would cost all of us RM3.00 more per month. Thats relatively smaller than a 20 sen increase per litre of petrol which will hit us RM8.00 more per tankful and last us only 2-3 days.

A loaf can be consumed by the entire family but a full tank of petrol by mostly 1 person driving to and back from work.

GreenBug
01-11-2007, 10:57 AM
The retail price of a standard loaf of 400g size of Enriched White Bread was increased from RM1.90 to RM2.10 this morning. I understand the two big boys Gardenia and High 5 simultaneously increased the price wef 1 November 2007 after receiving the approval from the Ministry of Domestic Trade & Consumer Affairs. This last price increase was in 1996 - 11 years ago!

pcyeoh
01-11-2007, 11:04 AM
When I bought my bread, my rotiman told me the price increase is effective from 1st November. It cannot be 1st December for bread producers like Silver Bird, Gardenia and Federal Bakery would stop producing the white loaf which we eat for breakfast. I don't mind the increase as a loaf of bread is usually eaten by the whole family so what is the big deal. In fact, last night I was at Baskin Robins where I saw this lady who was on a buying spree at Baskin Robins spending about RM 60 on this branded ice cream. I met her again at the medicine shop and this time she was cursing when she was told that the bread price would be increased the next day. Strange buying behaviour eh?

online12793
01-11-2007, 12:28 PM
30 cents is ok and not too much.

fRaNkY
01-11-2007, 12:43 PM
I know of a friend who have only a cornetto for lunch :D maybe 5 for me if my stomach can tahan the cold.

Good Guy
01-11-2007, 03:19 PM
When I bought my bread, my rotiman told me the price increase is effective from 1st November. It cannot be 1st December

Sorry, I mean 1st Nov. When you retire, you tend to make careless mistakes. :o


I have been baking cakes for the last 7 years. The only funny thing I notice is that the price of flour keeps coming down, esp from Tesco. Am I in dreamland?? :confused:

GreenBug, you sound like you are in the bread or flour business.

GreenBug
01-11-2007, 06:28 PM
Sorry, I mean 1st Nov. When you retire, you tend to make careless mistakes. :o


I have been baking cakes for the last 7 years. The only funny thing I notice is that the price of flour keeps coming down, esp from Tesco. Am I in dreamland?? :confused:You're probably right its old age.... price of flour in Tesco is not coming down, in fact it goes up and will go up again. But Tesco is using this low-buy to attract people like you there.

GreenBug
01-11-2007, 06:30 PM
Its 20 sen for a standard 400g loaf, not 30 sen. People in bakery business are very considerate people, I assure you....

jack12
02-11-2007, 11:04 AM
What about the 600g?



Its 20 sen for a standard 400g loaf, not 30 sen. People in bakery business are very considerate people, I assure you....

GreenBug
02-11-2007, 02:41 PM
What about the 600g?The approval from the Ministry is at 5 sen / 100g so the 400g bread (standard loaf) increased by 20 sen and the 600g by 30 sen. This is not the end, let me assure you. There's one more round coming....

jack12
02-11-2007, 03:02 PM
Meaning now rm2.90 :eek:



The approval from the Ministry is at 5 sen / 100g so the 400g bread (standard loaf) increased by 20 sen and the 600g by 30 sen. This is not the end, let me assure you. There's one more round coming....

GreenBug
02-11-2007, 03:24 PM
Meaning now rm2.90 :eek:No lah... 7.5 sen / 100g more meaning it will cost the 400g standard loaf 30 sen more (RM2.40) and the 600g 45 sen more (RM3.35), thats all, painless right? Step by step and this way no ripple and Malaysians can take it well.... :D

online12793
02-11-2007, 05:27 PM
A lot of retired people are also complaining.

Furthermore, the interest rates are 3% instead of 6% several decades ago. :(

Complaining at 3% :confused: :confused: :confused:
Last time i used to get loans paying 25% for the interest rates,
i find that cheap becos i can get more deals and make more money
in return rather than paying 6% and can't get the money.

It is all whoever gives you the money to make more money,
if you know you can get the money the rest is history.
If they did not give me the money i wouldn't be where i am today.

spinner
03-11-2007, 02:35 AM
Finally, the price of Gardenia has increased! The one that I always buy which had cost RM1.90 will soon cost me RM2.10.

But frankly speaking, though increase price is not a good thing, I think the price of RM2.10 still very reasonable...

RM1.92 per litre of petrol can only move a few kms, but RM2.10 per loaf of bread can eat for 2 days breakfast for 2 person!

jack12
03-11-2007, 02:57 PM
Quite expensive :eek:


No lah... 7.5 sen / 100g more meaning it will cost the 400g standard loaf 30 sen more (RM2.40) and the 600g 45 sen more (RM3.35), thats all, painless right? Step by step and this way no ripple and Malaysians can take it well.... :D

online12793
03-11-2007, 10:53 PM
I just pay for the extra rise in price pretty much the same for the petrol.

GreenBug
04-11-2007, 11:55 AM
Quite expensive :eek:Relatively, yes! Moving from RM1.90 per loaf to RM2.10 and ultimately to RM2.40 is a 50 sen hike per loaf.

BUT thats 50 sen for 12 slices of bread with vitamins, fibre and trans-fat free food enough for 2 persons for 2 days.

Your piece of roti canai is up by 30-40 sen a piece, enough for 2 persons for 2 days?

Your petrol up by 20 sen per litre, thats good enough for 11-15 km in a family saloon, thats from USJ to Mid-Valley....

And price of bread was last increased 11 years ago, in 1996....

I am not defending the (commercial) bakeries like HIGH 5 or Gardenia but the truth is they were losing almost a loaf for every 2 loaves they sold.

Perhaps, as consumers we have sometimes directed our complaints at the wrong area.

Curtain materials hiked 70% per metre across the board since before Hari Raya, thats gonna cost thousands to change a set of certain for an end-lot in SJ/USJ or slightly less in a intermediate unit.... but none of the ladies have complained about it in the internet, in the press nor even over coffee-talk, strange!

pepsi
04-11-2007, 11:31 PM
Relatively, yes! Moving from RM1.90 per loaf to RM2.10 and ultimately to RM2.40 is a 50 sen hike per loaf.

BUT thats 50 sen for 12 slices of bread with vitamins, fibre and trans-fat free food enough for 2 persons for 2 days.

Your piece of roti canai is up by 30-40 sen a piece, enough for 2 persons for 2 days?

Your petrol up by 20 sen per litre, thats good enough for 11-15 km in a family saloon, thats from USJ to Mid-Valley....

And price of bread was last increased 11 years ago, in 1996....

I am not defending the (commercial) bakeries like HIGH 5 or Gardenia but the truth is they were losing almost a loaf for every 2 loaves they sold.



Bread is definitely healthier and cheaper than eating roti canai.
Don't forget, teh tarik also naik harga.

pcyeoh
05-11-2007, 12:14 AM
Perhaps, as consumers we have sometimes directed our complaints at the wrong area.

Curtain materials hiked 70% per metre across the board since before Hari Raya, thats gonna cost thousands to change a set of certain for an end-lot in SJ/USJ or slightly less in a intermediate unit.... but none of the ladies have complained about it in the internet, in the press nor even over coffee-talk, strange![/SIZE] [/FONT]
I used to incur zero cost in changing curtains. I swapped curtains with my sister-in-law as she stayed in a similar house as mine. But two years ago she moved to Bandar Utama. To do the same thing again, I must fork out RM 780,000 for a similar house in Bandar Utama. So it is so much cheaper to buy a new sets of curtain than a new house. Or it can still be zero cost - just make do with the current curtains for the time being.

online12793
05-11-2007, 02:46 PM
Curtain materials hiked 70% per metre across the board since before Hari Raya, thats gonna cost thousands to change a set of certain for an end-lot in SJ/USJ or slightly less in a intermediate unit.... but none of the ladies have complained about it in the internet, in the press nor even over coffee-talk, strange!

Curtains is a luxury wherelse
Bread is a necessity.

You can go without curtains but not without bread,
as you don't buy curtains everyday but you do buy bread
everyday or every second day.

That's why the ladies don't complain as it is a once off thing for years to come.

uchangeng
05-11-2007, 03:44 PM
One Bakery at Subang Jaya, KT., sold bread at 33% discount the last 3 days!

firefox
05-11-2007, 03:51 PM
Capati ,thosai and roti canai at my favourite resturant is still at the old prices, i do hope he does not surf this forum!

coleslaw
05-11-2007, 03:53 PM
Capati ,thosai and roti canai at my favourite resturant is still at the old prices, i do hope he does not surf this forum!
mine too but the serving is smaller now.. :)

firefox
05-11-2007, 03:56 PM
mine too but the serving is smaller now.. :)

Mine is the same quantity and the quality is excellent. I dont indulge in noodles.

coleslaw
05-11-2007, 04:05 PM
noodles is my other weakness..and the serving has denifitely shrink!

GreenBug
13-11-2007, 10:07 AM
In a meeting for bakeries yesterday at Putrajaya, a lil' birdie tells me that the Ministry of Domestic Trade & Consumer Affairs threatened them by saying, "you have to produce the white bread and sell and distribute to the consumers, even if you lose money for every loaf!"

Ironically, the price of general purpose flour which is the millers have asked for a huge increase from the present RM1.35 per kilo up to RM2.35 per kilo might not be approved. Trust me, there will be shortage soon and not because the millers are playing game, they cannot afford to buy the wheat grains from the open market anymore, its RM2,285 per metric ton now (and rising) and they have been losing millions of ringgit supplying the market.

I suspect there will be a compromise at RM1.95 per kilo until after the General Elections, just to keep the millers afloat for a while. Lets watch the news over the next few days....

GreenBug
16-11-2007, 10:58 PM
There is going to be shortage of general purpose flour for Christmas and CNY I tell ya... that is if what I hear from the rumor mill holds water. Apparently, the flour millers, asking for a price increase from present RM1.35 per kilo to RM2.15 per kilo is not going to get the approval from the Ministry of Domestic Trade & Consumer Affairs...

A lil' birdie tells me the gung-ho Minister have told the flour millers the price increase has to wait, maybe until after the General Elections. And even if the Ministry agrees for a price hike, it would only be for 60 sen more per kilo to RM1.95 and not the full 80 sen increase to RM2.15 per kilo the millers are scrambling for...

Lil' birdie also tells me that that the millers might not turn up at the Ministry for the meeting on Monday.

The international price of wheat grain is at a record high. After milling, the flour (both General Purpose and High Protein flour) is at RM2,285 per metric ton, or RM2.29 per kilo.

The retail price in the shops is allowed only at RM1.35 which means for every kilo of flour milled, the producer loses 95 sen. This is only to breakeven, not even talking about profit yet...

Such is the fallacy of a Price Control Mechanism...

jamesw
17-11-2007, 10:52 PM
I think this is one of the "price" of staying in urban areas.

Many of us work late, not enough time to cook, eat out, when 10c increase
in fuel or control items, shop increase 10%! We have no choice except to bite the bullet. :(

USJ27Resident
18-11-2007, 01:50 PM
Such is the fallacy of a Price Control Mechanism...

Sad but true... that is the reason why prices are sooooooo distorted here in Malaysia.

On one hand the Govt wants to look good, and at the same breathe expects the millers to sell at loss... :eek: might as well bungkus kedai and turn the factory into making Proton parts... :p gerenti untung... [ then again, with all the kickbacks,greasings and buah-tangans to get the tenders... it would be another thread pulak!]

GreenBug
18-11-2007, 04:03 PM
Sad but true... that is the reason why prices are sooooooo distorted here in Malaysia. Thats very true Ah Lek. Just look at the prices of consumer durables for health like the blood glucose meter, the BP barometer, all even the pH paper (litmus paper)... The government does not know how to structure their import duties at all and the very basic needs of the citizens are therefore not well-looked after.

All they know on what to do in parliament is insult women and comment on Air Asia stewardesses' uniforms... chez!

If that stoopido from Jerai, or the other nincompoop from Kinabatangan or the moron from Jasin get another go at the election, it only means the government has no credible candidates to represent the ever-growing aspirations of the rakyat. Worse, it means Pak Lah supports such stoopiditee!

Pak Kadok
20-11-2007, 12:09 AM
Thats very true Ah Lek. Just look at the prices of consumer durables for health like the blood glucose meter, the BP barometer, all even the pH paper (litmus paper)... The government does not know how to structure their import duties at all and the very basic needs of the citizens are therefore not well-looked after.

All they know on what to do in parliament is insult women and comment on Air Asia stewardesses' uniforms... chez!

If that stoopido from Jerai, or the other nincompoop from Kinabatangan or the moron from Jasin get another go at the election, it only means the government has no credible candidates to represent the ever-growing aspirations of the rakyat. Worse, it means Pak Lah supports such stoopiditee!

I just read this in The Star:http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2007/11/19/business/20071119190534&sec=business

So, the bakeries will stop producing white read & concentrate on others which are not price-controlled or they might as well go "chap lap?"

fRaNkY
20-11-2007, 09:11 AM
Relatively, yes! Moving from RM1.90 per loaf to RM2.10 and ultimately to RM2.40 is a 50 sen hike per loaf.

BUT thats 50 sen for 12 slices of bread with vitamins, fibre and trans-fat free food enough for 2 persons for 2 days.



RM2.40 is still cheap lar compared .... to other food. Dunno why people complain so much.

Thats also 2 cuppa teh keci in a coffee shop. 2 days newspaper.....

Yet it will provide at least 2 snack meal for 2 kids.

Try buy flour and make your own bread. Lagi mahal wor :D

So now, with every price increases... dont waste food.... roti "skin" also have to makan. :p

GreenBug
20-11-2007, 10:22 AM
I just read this in The Star:http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2007/11/19/business/20071119190534&sec=business

So, the bakeries will stop producing white read & concentrate on others which are not price-controlled or they might as well go "chap lap?"The Ministry has just denied the flour millers a price increase for General Purpose flour. Can you imagine the power of the Minister? The price of wheat grains, as he had himself admitted in the news conference as having risen 70%, and he is denying them a price increase! He even gave the excuse that he is doing so to defend the rakyats and have not given in to the demand of the millers!

I understand that the meeting yesterday was boycotted by some of the biggest flour millers.

I also heard the government has also asked the flour millers to calculate their losses and the government will compensate them back.

What kind of a decision is this? Is the government using the taxpayers money to keep prices down and hope to use this as an election tool?

If so, the Rakyats ought to be told....

USJ27Resident
20-11-2007, 10:49 PM
I also heard the government has also asked the flour millers to calculate their losses and the government will compensate them back.

What kind of a decision is this? Is the government using the taxpayers money to keep prices down and hope to use this as an election tool?

If so, the Rakyats ought to be told....

Buddy... if the Govt is 'willing' to compensate toll operators and other dunggus operations to distort prices... the bakeries and the millers shud TAKE the compensations... :(

actually, the Govt oso not so bodoh-la... gives them a bloody excuse to collect more from the rakyat via taxes too... :eek:

this is what sickens me, to think that the Govt can afford to spend millions and billions on submarines and MiGs and whatnots... (oh.. and Monsoon Cups) yet... cannot properly subsidise essential goods and petrol.. etc etc..

gtl
21-11-2007, 08:26 AM
it is scary the govt is doing all these types of short term measures, it is going to hurt the country in the long run.........compensation and subsidies will lead to abuse.
what can i say, the country is not run on sound fundamentals.

GreenBug
21-11-2007, 10:30 AM
actually, the Govt oso not so bodoh-la... gives them a bloody excuse to collect more from the rakyat via taxes too... :eek: How does giving millions in subsidies to the millers to keep the price of flour to consumers down can result in the rakyat paying more in taxes? I'm lost here so pls. can you help share with us?

GreenBug
21-11-2007, 10:32 AM
BTW, Jeff Ooi wrote a very indepth piece on the "price of Flour" and the General Elcection. Do visit www.jeffooi.com for the interesting article.

AllUrban
22-11-2007, 11:44 AM
To illustrate the effects of the price ceiling:

prices from Cold Storage Subang Parade:

Gardenia Enriched White Bread - RM1.90 > RM2.10
Gardenia Wholemeal Bread - RM2.50 > RM2.70
High 5 Honey Oat Bread - RM2.70 > 3.10
Gardenia Breakthrough "Cholesterol lowering" bread > RM3.50 > RM4.10

Cheers, m

Tigger
22-11-2007, 11:53 AM
I bought a bread making machine 2 months ago. since then, the bread flour has gone up from rm2.00/kg to 2.90/kg, a whopping 45%. so the increase of Gardenia bread is still more "reasonble" compared to the retail price of bread flour!

ymt
22-11-2007, 12:00 PM
[QUOTE=AllUrban]To illustrate the effects of the price ceiling:

prices from Cold Storage Subang Parade:

Gardenia Enriched White Bread - RM1.90 > RM2.10
Gardenia Wholemeal Bread - RM2.50 > RM2.70
High 5 Honey Oat Bread - RM2.70 > 3.10
Gardenia Breakthrough "Cholesterol lowering" bread > RM3.50 > RM4.10


"Common man" bread had basically been monopolised by two giant bread manufacturer - Gardenia and High 5 through their very aggressive marketing and promotions thus killing off most small time manufacturers in major towns although you can still see some of thee other brands in smaller towns which are cheaper. Now we have no choice but to eat "marketing gimmicked" enriched bread when our forefathers and the older generation can grow healthy eating unriched sunshine or federal bakery bread. Even the roti "bhai" or coffee shop bread has become expensive bread to eat now only available in airconded kopitiams

bslee
22-11-2007, 12:20 PM
Federal Bakery bread at Mydin still at good price.. No more Gardenia or boutique brand since they opened here. BTW..FB boss is president of bakers association if not mistaken!.
BTW, all these essentials price increase is really hurting the general public and most Malaysians are modest in complaining or hardly any avenues (except internet) to complain!. Gahmen people can't really help much but talking in circles, gostan, u-turn, giving "semua ok" assurances and achieving little on the long term. LIFE with EXPENSES for most Malaysians are getting more hurtful in due course...as I said..few complain..so its like "semua ok!".. :mad:

GreenBug
22-11-2007, 02:32 PM
Federal Bakery bread at Mydin still at good price.. No more Gardenia or boutique brand since they opened here. BTW..FB boss is president of bakers association if not mistaken!.The government approved a 5 sen / 100g price increase for enriched white bread so both Gardenia and High 5 went up from RM1.90 -> RM2.10 for their standard loaf which is 400g in net weight. Thats perfectly acceptable. But Federal Bakery increased price of 20 sen also except their loaf is 300g, go figure....

Since you speak well of the smaller bakeries including Federal Bakery, its boss Mashood is supposed to be the President of the Bakeries Association but sadly the association is not registered and Mr. Mashood was called in by the Ministry for making statements and claims on behalf of an association not in existent.

And BSLee, only two bread in the market ie. High 5 and Gardenia has a guaranteed enriched bread i.e. with the stipulated fibre, vitamins and minerals according to the RDA (Recommended Daily Allowance) chart as approved by the FDA of the United States.

In any case, a RM2.10 loaf of 14 slices of enriched white bread with the full vitamins, fibre and minerals enough for a family of 5 for a day compared to a RM4.00 noodles enough for one person or a RM1.00 roti canai enough also for one person, go figure too....

GreenBug
22-11-2007, 02:43 PM
"Common man" bread had basically been monopolised by two giant bread manufacturer - Gardenia and High 5 through their very aggressive marketing and promotions thus killing off most small time manufacturers in major towns although you can still see some of thee other brands in smaller towns which are cheaper. Now we have no choice but to eat "marketing gimmicked" enriched bread when our forefathers and the older generation can grow healthy eating unriched sunshine or federal bakery bread. Even the roti "bhai" or coffee shop bread has become expensive bread to eat now only available in airconded kopitiamsThat shows how little you know and how biased you are. Sure, no one is stopping you from eating those kopitiam bread, which is basically water, flour and yeast. That way you need not pay for the fibre, the skimmed milk, the vitamins, the minerals etc... The free choice is there....

But to claim that these bread from Gardenia and High 5 are gimmicks and even insinuating that they are not value for money, are you aware that the bakeries are actually losing money for every loaf of white bread they produce? They have no choice but to continue to produce because the government is holding the book over their head and if you read what Minister Shafie Apdal said in the paper yesterday with threats of huge fines and jail terms if the bakeries don't produce white bread, then you would likely be more sympathetic.

Even with the price increase, the bakeries are still losing money. THE LAST PRICE INCREASE WAS IN 1996 and since then yeast, transportation, skimmed milk, vitamins & minerals, have all gone up by between 60-80%. Then recently, flour went up 70%. Cost went up by 15 sen / 100g while the government approved only 5 sen per 100g for white bread. Do you think its so profitable to feed your family with these bread?

I suggest you understand the industry first, or any industry for that matter, before hentam them like this.

And may I repeat, as a consumer you have a choice, theres the mamak bread that you fancy then go ahead and buy them but no need to run down the rest as gimmick and what have you.. some of the people in this business is already losing their pants and here you come throwing uninformed insults at them for gimmicks...

cskok8
22-11-2007, 02:56 PM
Or as somebody famously said, "if you can't eat bread, go eat cake"

AllUrban
22-11-2007, 04:47 PM
all I was trying to say was, because of the price ceiling on enriched white bread, the government would/could not allow a significant increase...so the buyers of other breads are affected because the bakeries had to raise the price somewhere.

I'm sad that my favourite breads have increased in price by 60 sen...In essence, some of that extra 60sen is paying for the enriched white bread that you are eating :p with its skim milk, fibre, and vitamins etc.

Some people complain that it is unfair to make the owners of big cars (e.g. 2000 cc or larger) pay more for petrol ... because they are perceived to be wealthy

well, m is not wealthy ... he just prefers really brown bread ... but he still has to pay extra

Cheers, m

firefox
22-11-2007, 05:04 PM
I like the Sun Moulin bread they are tasty, solid and nutty, i hope they open a branch somewhere in SJ

clfoo
22-11-2007, 11:00 PM
bla bla bla ... Malayan Flour Mills Bhd’s fiscal third quarter revenue and net profit increased 47.53% and 164.41% year-on-year to RM297.35 million and RM13.65 million respectively .... bla bla bla http://www.theedgedaily.com/cms/content.jsp?id=com.tms.cms.article.Article_5dcc814 4-cb73c03a-1d4d4930-79345245

all flour millers in desperado?