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kmlim
02-06-2007, 02:16 PM
Hi,
Heard public mutual not bad, can give around 15% per annum. Also read about Citibank with new fund.
I am new to all this fund, I would like a fund which is more stable (won't bankrupt) and give me quite good returns.

patrick
02-06-2007, 04:06 PM
Hi,
Heard public mutual not bad, can give around 15% per annum. Also read about Citibank with new fund.
I am new to all this fund, I would like a fund which is more stable (won't bankrupt) and give me quite good returns.

The funds dont go bankrupt but you may lose money. I would suggest you talk to a good Unit Trust Agent. But know your own tolerance for losses so that you can zoom in to what is suitable for you. But generally, those funds which tend to be more "stable", as you described, dont give very good returns. Of course there are exceptions.

But if you have less tolerance for losses, suggest you look at capital guaranteed funds.

My basic advice is know yourself first, then talk to a good Agent. And if an Agent just wants to sell, sell, sell instead of finding out your needs, look for another agent. Also know that the past performance of Funds dont necessarily reflect the future performance.

As for Unit Trust Companies, talk to people with investment. Find out their performance and their customer service.

Sentinel
02-06-2007, 04:17 PM
Hi,
Heard public mutual not bad, can give around 15% per annum. Also read about Citibank with new fund.
I am new to all this fund, I would like a fund which is more stable (won't bankrupt) and give me quite good returns.

Even within the Public Mutual, they have many different funds. Each fund is differentiated from the other on the risk-return factor. The higher the risk, the better returns and the lower the risk, the lower the returns.

Each fund invests in different portfolio, some on fast-growing industries and some on the more stable long-term industries.

There also some which only invest in "halal" counters for our Muslim friends.

Go to their website or just call them to send some brochures to you.

Returns depend on 2 things, the price increase per unit of the fund as well as the dividend that you get. Normally you get about 10-15% in a good bull run period but when the market is slow, you can still get 6-8% return, better than parking your pile in the bank vault or EPF.

Disclaimer : The above is just my ramblins and personal point-of-view. I am not recommending nor discouraging you from Public Mutual yah? I have enough commitments and obligations of my own to settle already. :D

kmlim
02-06-2007, 05:55 PM
you don't mind to list down those more reputable fund for me to choose and querry. I also been approach from Alianz offering 100% return after 5 years when investing rm250/month, I can't believe myself

Sentinel
02-06-2007, 06:09 PM
All those funds listed on the Unit Trust page of the local newspaper are approved by Bank Negara, they are all reputable. However, I'm not sure about the service level of each one of these companies.

There is also a weekly write-up comparing the performances of all these funds and I think it's either in The Sun or The Star...

Public Mutual has been good for me as I have invested in it since 1998. My only issue is the agent who used to serve me. He invested in one of the funds on my behalf without my permission and I lost some money there. [Yes, it is possible to lose money on unit trust investment.]

I told him off and since he also knew I work overseas and there isn't much fund left in my EPF Special Account, I have not heard from him eversince. Well, that's what I call screwed-up service from a well-performing fund. Recently I saw him in a Public Mutual Fund advertisement showing he is still one of the top performers in the company. Can you imagine this?

tehmc
02-06-2007, 09:18 PM
For Public Mutual, you can check from their website for the past performances of all the funds over the past 1,3,5 & 10 yrs as well as since inception.

One of the funds that I bought, Public Focus Select' has been doing very well - a return of 71% to date, over a period of 2.5 yrs.

http://www.publicmutual.com.my/application/fund/performance.aspx

Of course this is due to the upward trend of the KLCI over that period. But the unit trust funds have generally outperformed the KLCI (50% return for the same period). Of course again, past performance is not an indicator for future performances. But the consistency of their performances does give some indication of how well the funds are managed.


I also been approach from Alianz offering 100% return after 5 years when investing rm250/month

100 % return over 5 years works out to over 14% per year. No unit trust company would guarantee that, some do guarantee the principal amount but not the rate of return. Verify with the company, I believe this is unethical marketing.

There are basically two broad categories of unit trusts funds - equity funds which is invested in the share market (local as well as foreign) to generate income and bond funds which is invested in bonds. Equity funds carries higher risk but receives better returns while bond funds are relatively safe but offers lower returns (6-8%). You have the option to switch between the two types of funds as you deem fit. If you are looking at investing for long term over a period of 3-5 years, it is still a relatively safe form of investment.

Public Mutual is still the biggest and most established unit trust company, having one-third share of the market and have won the most number of awards for their performances.

charis14
02-06-2007, 11:47 PM
As Patrick says, having a GOOD agent makes a whole lot of difference. I recall my first experience of buying from a friend. After 9 years, my investment was still a lost case - when other funds were already making bundles.

The role of a GOOD unit trust agent is to help us protect, manage and grow our investment. A key feature involves occasional SWITCHING from one fund to another (within the same company). A part-timer may not be much help since they may be too busy to know what's happening in the market. In other words, DO NOT BUY from banks' customer service personnel since do not have time to monitor your investments after that.

As for investment-linked funds, it is difficult to measure returns since a portion is utilised for insurance. It may be better to purchase term insurance (low-cost coverage) from an insurance company and, for investment, to purchase unit trust from a proven UT company.

mlkok
02-06-2007, 11:48 PM
Guaranteeing 100% returns in 5 years? The Allianz fella better have a black and white confirmation from the company. If not that's actually an offence which will cause him/her to be stripped of license to practice.
There are many books available in the market today on personal investment. Grab a couple and spend the time to read up. If you go invest when you're totally clueless, you're headed for a real painful time. :p

charis14
02-06-2007, 11:59 PM
Guaranteeing 100% returns in 5 years? I believe they are referring to 'capital guaranteed' after 5 years. In other words, they guarantee you do not lose money - but no guarantee you will receive interest for it. Keeping this in a bank with 4% interest provides >20% return after 5 years. An invesment which generates 6% average return provides 33% return after 5 years. Think about the 'loss' which actually goes towards paying for the insurance coverage. Hence, my suggestion to separate your insurance purchase and UT investment.

Good Guy
03-06-2007, 12:05 AM
you don't mind to list down those more reputable fund for me to choose and querry. I also been approach from Alianz offering 100% return after 5 years when investing rm250/month, I can't believe myself

I have quite substantial amount in unit trusts. The main reason is that I trust my niece who is in this line (she holds master degree from Cambridge, plus others like CPA). She just informed me a new fund coming up on 13 June, with capital guarantee, meaning your capital is guaranteed. I will be investing in this one too. If you are interested please PM me. :D

kmlim
03-06-2007, 02:41 AM
Good Guy: do you mind share with us the launching fund?

aurora97
03-06-2007, 08:40 AM
no one seems to have mention the initial investment fee, yearly maintainance fee and other hidden fees that come with trust funds...

nothing comes free :P

charis14
03-06-2007, 09:03 AM
Good Guy: do you mind share with us the launching fund?Er... sorry to pour cold water on your aspirations of 15% if you invest in capital guaranteed fund.

Capital guaranteed funds tend to lock your money up for a fixed period with no guarantee of profits. The guarantee is only valid if you stay invested till the end. During an extended period of market slump, such funds can be good - but FD may even be better since it guarantees principal AND interest. During a bull run, capital guaranteed funds are generally left behind. Reason : Because they guarantee the principal amount, a substantial amount has to be invested in safe, low-interest instruments.

You missed another essential point which Patrick mentioned earlier i.e. 'if an Agent just wants to sell, sell, sell instead of finding out your needs, look for another agent'. The essence is WHAT IS YOUR NEED? What is your risk profile?

Different individuals have different needs. For example, a gambler will want to go for aggressive funds (which comes with high potential for gains AND LOSSES). A kiasi individual will want something which is safe. Most of us go for a combination.

Am speaking from personal experience. Purchased a guaranteed China fund in November 06 which is presently 4% in the red (due to slump in February and recently) while equity funds purchased then is >20% up. But in case you think equity is the way to go, be warned again - the swing can be substantial in a market slump. Have an earlier global fund which generated >30% in 1 year but stagnated during the past 4 months due to market fluctuations. Still, DIVERSIFICATION IS IMPORTANT.

tehmc
03-06-2007, 12:45 PM
no one seems to have mention the initial investment fee, yearly maintainance fee and other hidden fees that come with trust funds...
nothing comes free :P

The charges are pretty standard - service charge upon purchase is 6-8%, annual maintenance fee is 1.5%, which are actually quite high compared to other countries. The UT industry is closely regulated by the Securities Commission but not the investments by insurance companies. Unit trust business is good money for fund managers, that's why a lot of the banks and insurance companies are jumping into the bandwagon.

The charges are factored into the published selling and buying prices i.e. there will not be other charges unlike the trading of shares where the commission/brokerage charges are separate.

jack10dd
03-06-2007, 12:50 PM
http://www.usj.com.my/bulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=13964&highlight=unit+trust

tehmc
03-06-2007, 01:02 PM
80% of EPF members lost more than RM600mil in unit trust schemes

This statement is misleading. It was reported that the investments totalled RM600mil. No all the RM600mil was lost.

This is what was reported:


A Malay daily reported over the weekend that EPF contributors who invested an estimated RM600mil in unit trust schemes had suffered losses.

Sentinel
03-06-2007, 02:10 PM
Ahh KMLim, the weekly report and analysis on Unit Trusts is in Saturday's The Star newspaper. You can compare every fund there but to really understand each fund, you need the brochure.

Some funds use your money to invest on index-related shares so those folks are singing their way to the bank right now because KLCI is hovering above 1,350 points. But when KLCI go south, they would also be the ones crying. So, you gotta be ready for all these.

I personally believe there is high probablity some EPF members who invested RM600 mil of their hard-earned money and lost big. This is because they just follow what their agents told them, blindly. And they do not pay attention to quarterly reports or take a peep at the scoreboards once in a while.

Read the brochures, think whether you're going in long-haul investment or for short-term gains... Just FYI I signed on a unit trust with Public Mutual 8 years ago for wifey at RM200 a month, now its quite a big pile already because we invested on long-term, low risk, average gains fund.

tehmc
03-06-2007, 03:06 PM
I would like a fund which is more stable (won't bankrupt) and give me quite good returns.

Don't think anyone call tell you which is the best fund or best UT company to invest in.
Neither can the UT companies guarantee you no risk-high return funds.
Agents who preach to you otherwise are not telling you the truth.
The same principle holds in all investments - high risk - high return and low risk - low return.
Luck and timing also plays a big part.
You can even out the risks by investing small amounts on a regular basis over a long term, like what Sentinel did.

clfoo
03-06-2007, 05:08 PM
understand the current hype to invest in fund bcos of seemingly bull run now, but for those who only wanna enter into local equity fund now please be wary bcos there r higher chance of price going downsouth .. if u r still green in this area, i think u r better off hiring fee based independent financial planner to advise u.


You can even out the risks by investing small amounts on a regular basis over a long term, like what Sentinel did. on theory this's good but cost averaging is not good strategy when the price is high .. problem with our unit trust industry is the upfront fee is very high, they should be rewarded according to fund performace instead.

Good Guy
03-06-2007, 05:48 PM
Good Guy: do you mind share with us the launching fund?

Please PM me to avoid others thinking I am soliciting. I am not an agent. I just want to share with those who wish to know more. :D

smoothead
03-06-2007, 08:29 PM
Dollar-cost-averaging is investing regularly, preferably on a monthly basis, whether the price is high or low so over the long run, the prices that we bought are averaged out.

I have been investing on this basis for a long time now and the returns is definitely better than what if one were to put it in FDs. Average returns, depending on the funds invested in and also the duration and timing, ranges from anything from 6+% to 15+% p.a. compounding.

But, recently, with the stock markets here and also elsewhere on a bull run, a couple of funds bought recently have hit a return of over 20%, but only if I sell it. Mutual funds are considered a long term investment for me.

patrick
04-06-2007, 12:00 AM
As Patrick says, having a GOOD agent makes a whole lot of difference. I recall my first experience of buying from a friend. After 9 years, my investment was still a lost case - when other funds were already making bundles.

The role of a GOOD unit trust agent is to help us protect, manage and grow our investment. A key feature involves occasional SWITCHING from one fund to another (within the same company). A part-timer may not be much help since they may be too busy to know what's happening in the market. In other words, DO NOT BUY from banks' customer service personnel since do not have time to monitor your investments after that.

As for investment-linked funds, it is difficult to measure returns since a portion is utilised for insurance. It may be better to purchase term insurance (low-cost coverage) from an insurance company and, for investment, to purchase unit trust from a proven UT company.

I agree with charis14. In these days, I find trust investment very dynamic, and one must at times treat trust also like stocks and shares. Take profit when one is making a pile and switch to a safe instrument. And when the market is down, move back to something that offers more topside. Even stocks that I invest in long term dont necessary stay that way. Once I hit more than 30% gains, I will usually take profit and wait for opportune buying moment to drop by. And nowadays with e-trading, this is very viable option.

patrick
04-06-2007, 12:05 AM
Er... ..
You missed another essential point which Patrick mentioned earlier i.e. 'if an Agent just wants to sell, sell, sell instead of finding out your needs, look for another agent'. The essence is WHAT IS YOUR NEED? What is your risk profile?

Different individuals have different needs. For example, a gambler will want to go for aggressive funds (which comes with high potential for gains AND LOSSES). A kiasi individual will want something which is safe. Most of us go for a combination.

Am speaking from personal experience. Purchased a guaranteed China fund in November 06 which is presently 4% in the red (due to slump in February and recently) while equity funds purchased then is >20% up. But in case you think equity is the way to go, be warned again - the swing can be substantial in a market slump. Have an earlier global fund which generated >30% in 1 year but stagnated during the past 4 months due to market fluctuations. Still, DIVERSIFICATION IS IMPORTANT.

Errr..thanks for your support again! ;-) Sounds like you are an investor of funds in HDBS huh?

patrick
04-06-2007, 12:14 AM
.......Unit trust business is good money for fund managers, that's why a lot of the banks and insurance companies are jumping into the bandwagon. ...


I sort of agree with you too. I understand in the US, unit trust offers variable rates depending on returns. Here, I find it a bit ****y in the sense that some Fund perform so poorly and yet have the cheek to deduct their regular fees! Negative returns also deduct fee. It's a win-win situation for them all the way. That's why every body want to jump in!!

patrick
04-06-2007, 12:20 AM
This statement is misleading. It was reported that the investments totalled RM600mil. No all the RM600mil was lost.

This is what was reported:

It may not be accurate but I wont be surprise if a high % lost money. why? Those use their EPF tend to be small investors who buy and then do nothing much else. They dont average down, they down consider switching, they dont take profit when the funds are flying high and they dont cut losses when situation is desperate. So...not impossible.
I was giving a talk to some company staff a few years ago, and I was shocked to learn that some dont even know exactly the type of funds they had bought! They know the name, the company and that's about it!!

charis14
04-06-2007, 09:59 AM
...Sounds like you are an investor of funds in HDBS huh?Only 2 funds lah incl the capital guaranteed. Prefer to focus on my 2 regulars - the (former) SBB and (lately) Public. With their array of funds, I can switch more easily as and when necessary. Unlikely for me to touch capital guaranteed funds in future - will prefer to use the money to invest directly.

patrick
04-06-2007, 11:03 AM
Only 2 funds lah incl the capital guaranteed. Prefer to focus on my 2 regulars - the (former) SBB and (lately) Public. With their array of funds, I can switch more easily as and when necessary. Unlikely for me to touch capital guaranteed funds in future - will prefer to use the money to invest directly.

It's should be ok. Since it's capital guaranteed, they know it's medium term and they will invest it accordingly. Which means you are likely to see negative first year. Should be more encouraging after the 2nd year onwards. It's sometimes good to spread your portfolio. Cheer up!! ....hey, I am just an investor like you, lest you think I am also an Agent.

JayChou
04-06-2007, 03:18 PM
The fund hsa to be managed by one of the top-three fund houses. The fund manager must have been with the company for some time and have at least five years investing experience.. The fund should have a low expense ratio - less than 1.75% per annum. Fees chard must be competitive or have a hefty discount. The fund must also have consistently outperformed its benchmarks index. These criteria should eliminate most of the funds in the market