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orchipalar
17-12-2006, 03:18 PM
17 Dec 2006

KUALA LUMPUR: More now than ever before. And they are selling their properties and their cars.

... (Admin note - please read the details in the link below)

"I do not have the exact details, but I think the callers were of all races Malays, Indians, Chinese and others," Max said.

http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/nst/Sunday/National/20061217092321/Article/local1_html

Err buddies...Orchi believes most of those many who have applied to migrate...are MOSTLY Younger tax n rate payers...pissed off with the current UMNO leaderships...n the future UMNO leaderships...or they could NO longer be overly "burdened" to share the "world class facilities" n mentality here...

This is some recent development which the UMNO Leaders...do NOT mind to achieve right after the 2006 UMNO General Assembly...isn't it?

n Orchi thinks they definitely know...n also like the reasons...to that.

More disappointed citizens n voters leaving would mean less Oppositions supporters...Mission accomplished...n freaking well done...!

Raikonen
17-12-2006, 08:17 PM
Not surprising since the UMNO GA with all the "threats" flying around. I want my kids to grow up not knowing what is a bumiputra.

slappy
17-12-2006, 11:45 PM
despite all said and done, one would doubt whether there's any serious concerted efforts by the govt to stem the brain drain out of this country, which by no coincidence are not ppl regarded as sons of the soils. :(

why would one want to stem the outflow when it is patently apparent that this would benefit a dominant party politically.

FreeThinker
18-12-2006, 09:27 AM
Sooner or later, Malaysia will become like the Philippines, a country where most of its dwellers are second best as the best citizens had already gone abroad to look for jobs.

penangkia
18-12-2006, 09:28 AM
Countries like Australia and Singapore benefit the most with all these migration from bolehland.
It's not that anyone who wants to migrate can just do it. It's almost always the rich, uni. educated or businessmen that meet the qualifications. These countries are getting instant quality citizens...ie well trained, educated, young and hardworking long term nation builders.

The lost to bolehland is beyond measure in future terms. Yet, some racist idiots continue to paint these migrants as being disloyal instead of asking the obvious questions as to why people ( by the thousands) would want to leave their land of birth and settle elsewhere.

Countries like Australia and Singapore are accepting these migrants not out of love. They know the great long term benefits that quality migrants will bring.

On the other hand, what quality migrants are Malaysia attracting ??? :rolleyes:

Sugarfree
18-12-2006, 09:37 AM
On the other hand, what quality migrants are Malaysia attracting ??? :rolleyes:
Urmm...drain sweepers, maids, robbers? Awesome, ain't it? Sure calls for a celebration, this. :rolleyes:

orchipalar
18-12-2006, 10:02 AM
It's not that anyone who wants to migrate can just do it. It's almost always the rich, uni. educated or businessmen that meet the qualifications. These countries are getting instant quality citizens...ie well trained, educated, young and hardworking long term nation builders.

The lost to bolehland is beyond measure in future terms. Yet, some racist idiots continue to paint these migrants as being disloyal instead of asking the obvious questions as to why people ( by the thousands) would want to leave their land of birth and settle elsewhere.Err buddy Penangkia...Orchi agrees with you...that the freaking UMNO led BN leaders should be questioned...what would these cream of the crops n the rest of Millions of ordinary rakyat(Bumis included) get for being the loyal n patriotic taxpayers...?

How does the government treats them...with equal opportunities?
Does the government exercise the constitutional rights of every citizens to treat them fairly...?
What has UMNO been doing to the vast majority of its people...?
How come so many feels that the UMNO/government are racists...?
Would the government abolish...the failing NEP...?
Would the government abolish...OSA...?

"The most number of enquiries, according to Desmond, comes from professionals (60 per cent) and the rest from tradespersons like cooks, mechanics, tool-makers, carpenters and hair dressers.

"But the demand abroad is much higher for tradespersons compared to professionals," said another migration expert, Max Manesh, who is based in Subang Jaya."

Err...again Orchi believes the government does NOT have to worry about even thousands MORE from these groups of its rate/tax paying citizens(mostly hardworking n skilled labored persons)...migrating elsewhere...because they do NOT care for these growing numbers of opposing Malays...Chinese or Indians.etc...

Ahem...all they want is to make up the lacking consensus...by importing MORE Indonesian immigrants who would be promised with lucrative opportunities to become the new breed of Ketuanan Melayu...by voting UMNO to the throne...

Oh btw...Orchi applauds the decisions by these migrating YOUTH Malays...Chinese n Indians etc...n Orchi admires their courage to face new challenges n better opportunities ahead...

n Orchi is confident that they are making the right choice to leave amidst the greater uncertainties that lie ahead in this country should they NOT leave...

Orchi for one believes also that they would be rewarded from their hard work n sincerity...elsewhere.

n having said that...Orchi is also hoping that...MORE Youths should be as courageous to make the similar decisions for themselves...

isarahim
18-12-2006, 10:21 AM
I have the fullest understanding for people migrating now.

It's sad, not the least because we could use their votes in the next GE.

Lots of Malay businessmen are leaving too.


I'm a semi-migrate myself - originally for different reasons though - but I kinda feel the next GE as pretty crucial for my future decisions.


why would one want to stem the outflow when it is patently apparent that this would benefit a dominant party politically.
This might be very true indeed.

GreyShadow
18-12-2006, 10:31 AM
I'm already started laying down my plan to emigrate out from this dunghole here in 5 years time, I don't want my future junior to grow up discriminated socially, financially, and also in education. I don't want the tax money I paid yearly gone into drain and also into pockets of those fat arse politician, and I'll never get anything back in return except more and more corruptions and more inflations.
The dunghole here are just getting sh1ttier and sh1ttier everyday, with the gomen sh1tting on my head daily. You guys better get ready for another fuel price rise in Jan.

I love Malaysia, but Malaysia don't love me, how? :rolleyes:

CCY
18-12-2006, 10:37 AM
I have the fullest understanding for people migrating now.

It's sad, not the least because we could use their votes in the next GE.

Lots of Malay businessmen are leaving too.


I'm a semi-migrate myself - originally for different reasons though - but I kinda feel the next GE as pretty crucial for my future decisions.


This might be very true indeed.

Sad as it may be.

Is there anymore action that those not able to leave can do to drum up some sense into these governing blocks ?
Are we seeing the effectiveness of containment of malays under the dome at it's best by not giving or limiting them the chance to travel out to expose n open up their thinking ?

EricK
18-12-2006, 10:39 AM
hmm.. just a thought.. are the present generation of malaysian not willing to stay and fight to make this a better country than it is now? sad isnt' it...

GreyShadow
18-12-2006, 10:47 AM
fight? how to fight? tell me?
u fight and u will detained by ISA, so how to fight?

fight by vote?
10,000 online user in urban area vote for non-BN party and there will be 10,000,000 voters in rural area vote for BN. At the end, it's still BN gomen, how?

orchipalar
18-12-2006, 10:55 AM
I have the fullest understanding for people migrating now.

It's sad, not the least because we could use their votes in the next GE.

Lots of Malay businessmen are leaving too.

I'm a semi-migrate myself - originally for different reasons though - but I kinda feel the next GE as pretty crucial for my future decisions.Err Saudara IsaRahim...a couple of decades ago n for a very long time since...ignorant Orchi used to think otherwise...when herds of skilled labours left to countries like Japan/Taiwan/Singapore/ n the Middle East to "jumped aeroplane"...so to speak...

Orchi used to curse n swear to their decisions...

But now...NOTHING can convince Orchi that they have made wrong decisions...

slappy
18-12-2006, 11:29 AM
dear all

should i give up on M'sia and migrate?

Yah
18-12-2006, 11:42 AM
Sooner or later, Malaysia will become like the Philippines, a country where most of its dwellers are second best as the best citizens had already gone abroad to look for jobs.
Also happened in another big country but the leaders there of the opinion better to have brain drain rather than brain in the drain. Of course it is sad to see our best leaving and then we go and hire expatriate at a very high cost. We must give equal opportunity to try and reverse this counter productive trend.

penangkia
18-12-2006, 12:32 PM
hmm.. just a thought.. are the present generation of malaysian not willing to stay and fight to make this a better country than it is now? sad isnt' it...

Haven't our grandfather's and our father's generations and now our generation, stayed put to fight, contribute and work to make this a better country? But everytime the issue of nationality crops up, were the non malays very quickly reminded that they are just pendatangs....and that tune is sung by the people in power.
How many more generations must the Malaysian borned non malays wait before they can rightly and justly expect and demand to be treated as "equal citizens"....without the prospects of being jailed under the pretext of racial stability.

See what has befallen on Pauline Hanson when she did a "pendatang" line Downunder.

Remember, not that long ago, Australia had a White Australia Policy.

GreyShadow
18-12-2006, 12:45 PM
I think I have made a mistake after letting go an opportunity to become an aussie PR after my studies there 6 years ago. Instead of becoming an aussie PR and earn aussie dollar, I have chosen to come back to Malaysia to work since this is where my roots are, friends, families are all here. Thinking I can be happier and prosper more in my own territory.
Now after more than 5 years enduring the sh1ts from the gomen, being "legally" discriminated by gomen, tax money paid are going down the drain and etc...
I'm already regretted not taking the opportunity 6 years back. That's why now me and wifey are planning for emigration either to Aus, NZ or Canada, where our future junior can have a better education, and a better society to live in.

orchipalar
18-12-2006, 01:50 PM
Err buddies...irrespective of whether you are Malays Chinese or Indians or others...for as long as you are NOT over 40...there are more choices that one could exercise with...as young professionals...n tradespersons(i.e. skill labours etc.)

Over 40 n over the hill...so to speak...one can only hope for business migration...i.e. bring long plenty of money...n no questions shall be asked by anyone...

Lets talk about money...for examples...Orchi is paying between RM3k to RM5k to each of Orchi's hairdressing sifu(s) depending on their various level of experience...monthly.

A couple of them...has since been making MORE than those figures...in USD...average monthly.(unfortunately one of them passed away recently due to cancer)

Orchi was paying RM12 to RM15 per hour of work by steel welders ranging from their qualifications of 3G n 6G...

Many of these steel welders are making the same figures...in USD n Euro now in the Middle East n Europe respectively.

Orchi was paying RM2.5k to RM5k for crane...tractor drivers n piling rigs operators monthly...depending on the capacities of the equipment.

Many of them have been working since in the Middle East...n few parts of Africa...Nigeria...Sudan...Congo n Mauritius...for more than the same figures...in USD per month on contract basis also.

Oh btw...the other fellow crane n machine operators are ear earning 25k in Hong Kong n Macau...average monthly excluding overtime.

One particular chief mechanic(NO Formal education)...now gets 10k in USD monthly excluding other benefits n perks...having his wifey n children living with him...

A Malay crane operator is working in the Maldives...for equivalent amount of RM25k per month...all inclusive.

Err...anyone wanna tell Orchi n the rest here...how much the experienced carpenter or a plumber gets monthly in the USA...New Zealand or Australia...?

sirgalahad2010
18-12-2006, 04:10 PM
The Dec 18 TODAY (http://www.todayonline.com) newspaper in Spore carried an interesting report on comments by Gautam Banerjee (executive chairman of PricewaterhouseCoopers Singapore). Mr Banerjee is an Indian, born in India, who became a Spore citizen in 1990.

Mr Banerjee's take is that the notion of citizenship could be overrated, because simply holding a country's passport in not what binds a person to the place. It is the emotional ties that do.

Mr Banerjee was commenting on the Spore govt's drive to attract foreign talent and said that converting them to Spore citizens is no guarantee that they will sink their roots in Spore.

To quote him: "We don't necessarily need everyone to be a citizen. The type of very talented people we are attracting is very mobile. So even if they become citizens, they will leave if they find better opportunities elsewhere. Our own citizens also leave. It doesn't matter."

Using as an example the US, where people live for years on the Green Card, he noted that talented people - regardless of which country they swear allegiance to - would stay in Spore for as long as it offers attractive opportunities.

And I just read a report which said an increasing number of US citizens are considering giving up their passports for other countries' citizenships for tax reasons.

So, I don't see why we should get so worked up about people wanting to migrate from Msia. A globalised, borderless world means that people with the talent or the right qualifications or with sufficient funds can choose to live and work anywhere they wish. It applies to Msia; it also applies to Spore, Indonesia, India, Japan, Canada, China, S Korea, Australia, the US etc. Which makes the whole notion of citizenship increasingly quaint and irrelevant.

Interestingly, the same issue of the TODAY newspaper carried a letter from a Ms Jacqueline Yeung Fai, a Canadian citizen who now lives in Spore. Writing about the tax burden in Canada, she made the following points:

>> access to medical care in Canada is not free. It is paid for by the high taxes Canadians pay annually.
>> the lowest federal income tax is about 15% and the highest is about 29%.
>> each province has its own income tax system, with the rate from 4 to 15%, depending on the province and one's earnings.
>> there are also federal and provincial sales taxes and goods and services taxes which in total can add another 15%.
>> which means that almost half one's monthly salary goes to pay taxes.
>> Canadian citizens and PRs, while enjoying free medical care, still have to pay for their medications. Waiting time for non-acute surgery can be long (she quotes the example of waiting time for hip replacement surgery can be as long as 1 year).
>> that while Canadian labour laws do not discriminate between citizens and PRs for employment purposes, companies given the choice between a PR and a citzen with the same qualifications are likely to hire the citizen.

penangkia
20-12-2006, 07:40 PM
This http://malaysia-today.net/blog2006/newsncom.php?itemid=1415 is the way the gomen is replacing the lost of it's quality citizens.

Kill 2 birds with one stone. Get rid of quality citizenry and replace them with cheap illegal immigrants....by the millions.

How to beat BN aka umno...when they play in such dirty manner.

For them (umno) to stay in power, the end justify the means....even if it means sweeping the country down the gutters.

bslee
20-12-2006, 08:30 PM
Look at Mydin USJ, full of foreign staff from DAY 1.. tell me if locals are not interested being employed there for any logical reason.

Sentinel
21-12-2006, 12:22 AM
This is our country too and we should all stick by and make it better. Why let some uneducated village politicians dictate what should be the rules of the game?

As for Khairy the SIL, he is only a blardy 30-year old politician trying to get hold of some key UMNO posts playing to the gallery. Don't worry lah, he has stepped on so many big toes and by the time Pak Lah is gone, he would also be gone....

Malaysians (including many Malays I know) all think this sandiwara will last as long as there is a weak PM at the top. Its all sementara sahaja....

lbn
21-12-2006, 07:34 AM
This is our country too and we should all stick by and make it better. Why let some uneducated village politicians dictate what should be the rules of the game?

As for Khairy the SIL, he is only a blardy 30-year old politician trying to get hold of some key UMNO posts playing to the gallery. Don't worry lah, he has stepped on so many big toes and by the time Pak Lah is gone, he would also be gone....

Malaysians (including many Malays I know) all think this sandiwara will last as long as there is a weak PM at the top. Its all sementara sahaja....

Totally agree with you my friend. Most politicians are unscrupulous, only trying to gain personal political mileage. They don't care a hoot of contribution. Don't be mislead. This is our country, we should hold on to our home! "The moon in other countries is not much rounder!"

sirgalahad2010
21-12-2006, 08:54 AM
What do you do when the "glamour" of greener pastures fades and you are faced with the stark reality of making a living and fending for yourself in an unfamiliar environment? Or the fact that you will be growing old away from family and friends?

Believe me, the Msian "expats" I have talked to in Australia, the US, Canada, England and even in Spore are more "lonely" than they let on, their high-powered jobs and glitzy lifestyles notwithstanding.

One can be a "cosmopolitan" or a "global citizen", but the ties to one's country of birth are very powerful.

thkhong
21-12-2006, 11:34 AM
If I am not mistaken, sometime back, the CEO of a Public Listed Company sold off his stake in the Co. and took the next flight to Singapore. Everyone of his staff was surprised!Qouting from the papers, he kept an apartment in KL and his family and children were in Singapore. Although the children are working there. Just imagine , children also dont wanna work for daddy in Malaysia or is it the other way round? Also where is CEO of another Banking instituition after selling off his stake.

EricK
21-12-2006, 11:47 PM
Dear all,

for those who are planning to migrate.. its not all a bed of roses over there.. the grass looks greener on the other side.... not discouraging or anything but must go in with eyes wide open... this is from a discussion in a forum i'm in...


CKT,

I think u need to re-assess ur goals lar... whether it's practical or not. 2-3 years got 4 bedrooms, 4 wheel drive etc.. unless u rich to start wif lar....me thinks on average most working class migrants take around 6-10 years b4 they can enjoy all those things lar.
Dun get discouraged.... must stick to ur decision... dun after 3-5 years cabut balik Malaysia liao... I see lots of ppl give up like that lar.... because goals not practical.
Take time to re-establish roots, u know.... especially if you have no family support whatsoever over here.... first generation migrant.

Just so u know that in Australia, there's a new Industrial Relation laws which allows bosses to sack an employee without reason... I know some guy who fell victim to this law... he came here coz got a job offer and when work here 1 year liao, boss sack without reason... maklumlah, we Asians work damn hard here... but most times, gaji and benefits do not match our gwai lo counterparts.... many boss still view us as "cheap labour".

So, this fren ended up no job (he's an engineer) and panic coz he has family to support... now, work part time jobs to make ends meet.... wash plates, waiter job, pick grapes etc etc. In my church, I see lots of professionals from Malaysia but they can't get job in their professions, ended up doing buruh jobs to make ends meet. Yes, maintaining and getting a job here can be a challenge... but dun be discouraged lar. You must hang in there and one day, u will be able to enjoy the fruits of your labour. That's why I say, since u migrating here.. u must be positive...maintain positive.. persistent.. hang in there... give urself 6-10 years at least lar.. 2-3 years, that's tough to achieve. Must know that dream is different than reality.

Just tell u so u know the risks you are taking and all the possibilities waiting for u here.

But maybe, u lucky... I wish u the best and also keep in touch, k?

kwchang
22-12-2006, 12:02 AM
We had a long discussion on this very topic not too long ago (Feb 2006) entitled Leaving Malaysia because I had to (http://www.usj.com.my/bulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=11434). Click on that to read what was discussed so you need not repeat the same stories or arguments :)

Sentinel
22-12-2006, 12:39 AM
What do you do when the "glamour" of greener pastures fades and you are faced with the stark reality of making a living and fending for yourself in an unfamiliar environment? Or the fact that you will be growing old away from family and friends?

Believe me, the Msian "expats" I have talked to in Australia, the US, Canada, England and even in Spore are more "lonely" than they let on, their high-powered jobs and glitzy lifestyles notwithstanding.

One can be a "cosmopolitan" or a "global citizen", but the ties to one's country of birth are very powerful.

SirG is absolutely right about it. I for one has been working overseas for the last 8 years, first as a semi-expat and then a full-fledged expat in Singapore and in Shanghai, its not the same as working at home in your own country, even with the glamour of a super-job and fat salaries....

You will miss the teh tarek and roti canai gareng etc but more so your friends and families and what have you. And more often, it can get very lonely...

I remember asking my driver one night to come over and drive me from Pudong across the river to a Malaysian restaurant in Xuhui (an hour drive) just to eat Nasi Lemak at 11.00pm at night and to talk to some Malaysians there...

Phew, thank God I'm home for good now...

starrnorth
22-12-2006, 01:15 AM
Plan carefully when you want to immigrate. It will be tough for u as thefirst generation there. But your children will benefit.

After all that is what you want. So plan and go.

sirgalahad2010
22-12-2006, 09:39 AM
Plan carefully when you want to immigrate. It will be tough for u as thefirst generation there. But your children will benefit.
After all that is what you want. So plan and go.

So, dad and mum are expected to make the sacrifice for their kids?

And to watch their kids grow up as "culturally assimilated" Americans, Australians, British, Canadians or New Zealanders?

Be careful what you wish for! There is only so far one can go being a "cosmopolitan" or a "global citizen", be it amongst the highrise financial districts of Spore, HK or New York or amidst the high-tech startups in Silicon Valley, Silicon Glen or in Austin or Boston, without feeling the siren call of the home country.

In any case, as Mr Chang has pointed out, this subject has been discussed enough. Those who who want to migrate, will migrate. Those who want to stay, will stay.