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kevin23
05-12-2006, 10:30 AM
http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/12/5/nation/16222713&sec=nation&focus=1 (http://http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/12/5/nation/16222713&sec=nation&focus=1)

So what do u guyz think about this new rule??
Honestly i think its extremely stupid for whoever to implement this ruling..TY
Even worse,they implement it on non-muslims also.Cannot tahan these morons! Sorry for the harsh words..

lynndhia
05-12-2006, 11:14 AM
Wanita MCA express outrage (http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/12/5/nation/16225266&sec=nation)

Wearing jeans emphasize the buttocks? even some skirts and slacks also does the same thing wat. then all the ladies have to wear sarong is it?

Tarnish the reputation of Kelantan being an Islamic city? Therefore, no freedom of choice or even dressing is it? To the extent of issuing a fine?

Seriously, no matter how much they ask us women to cover up "decently", there will never be an end to this. next thing they'll say is that the voice of the women when she talks is suggestive or too sexy therefore leading the men to rape her.

Even in iraq n places where the women r fully clothed, it's not like as if there are no rape cases there.

Ladies, this is only the tip of the iceberg. I shudder to think of what they'll come up with next.

kfboy
05-12-2006, 11:29 AM
You seen the news about Sydney Muslim leader citing this? He refers to women who dress immodestly as an uncovered piece of meat left to be eaten by cats.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20646437-601,00.html

He was condemn by most and was even voted by the majority to leave the country.

tntn73
05-12-2006, 11:32 AM
I hold more respect for ladies who dress proper but that's beside the point I feel those buggers should allow them freedom to show off in any style they want. Nevertheless I've always thought that a really beautiful woman needs not dress to kill that's what I tell my women.

penangkia
05-12-2006, 11:42 AM
That's Pas for you.

And of course, umno jumps into it to tell everyone what price one has to pay voting these nuts.

This time they ( the self-proclaimed holy ones), include the infidels too. Don't they know that the tight and elegant lady cheongsum is kinda like a Chinese national dress ?

Are sarong kebayas banned too, in kelatan ? Should MAS land in kota bahru and pay all the fines for their lovely girls ?

What about female tourists...both local and foreign..wearing jeans showing off their buttocks?

In another Star report, BN calls for whipping for prostitutes. Goodness, these guys are really living in the 14th century. They ( umno/pas) are competing to see who is "holier" in the treatment of women folks.

But both said nothing about their salivating men running amok when they see a " fleshy" women.

VMY 2007. Welcome, welcome....welcome all you rich, free spending immoral scums from abroad.

But don't blame our holy men when your women folks get raped for swimming in our beaches wearing body hugging outfits. It's their fault for showing off their belly buttons and emphasising their buttocks.

tyngyee
05-12-2006, 11:49 AM
Hi,

I'm a Malaysian been working at Singapore for 2 years since graduation. I can say that i personally witness the differences between these two governtment. I got nothing to say, when i see this news, once again, sad and disappointment.

Every morning i'll read Malaysia news online b4 i start work, still, i couldn't get where is this country is heading to. What is the direction the leaders want to lead all Malaysian to?

All i saw are quarrels, shameful offense, and now ridiculous rules...When the world are busy running, growing for more and more extensive competition from the pressure of China and India, somebody still speding energy creating funny rules.

Lastly i just wish to share, when a frog is trap in side a well, it's too proud and he think he knows a lot. I'll suggest getting real, and facing up about where we want to go. Humble and careful steps are crucial.

kfboy
05-12-2006, 12:00 PM
Why force people into religion rules? If one has not faith, abiding with all those laws does not get one to heaven too.

I say if there are too much restrictions, human behaves more like animals.

Imagine how would Malaysians (malay, chinese, indians etc) behave when they go overseas and see women nude bathing on beaches? Their behaviour will most likely be those of mountain turtle.... "sua-ku" and make us all as a Nation to lose face.

tyngyee
05-12-2006, 12:01 PM
You seen the news about Sydney Muslim leader citing this? He refers to women who dress immodestly as an uncovered piece of meat left to be eaten by cats.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20646437-601,00.html

He was condemn by most and was even voted by the majority to leave the country.


So they mean they are like "Animal"?No discipline, no moral, and no sence at all?Hahahaa...

emw
05-12-2006, 12:14 PM
...my women.

My? As in Own? Do I detect a whiff of MCP here??? :-)
Ellen

uchangeng
05-12-2006, 12:18 PM
Short of requering all women to wear "purdah" and the dark overall. Getting more like Taliban! A sad day........

kfboy
05-12-2006, 12:20 PM
So they mean they are like "Animal"?No discipline, no moral, and no sence at all?Hahahaa...

No lah. He says the wrong thing only.

I have nothing against religions. All religions teach good things but I strongly disagree with those that use God's name for violent. If God(s) are violent, where does evil stand?

uchangeng
05-12-2006, 12:32 PM
KB has become an Islamic City. One country two systems?

Is Selangor also another Islamic State? What about all other city like Melaka?

bslee
05-12-2006, 12:51 PM
Short of requering all women to wear "purdah" and the dark overall. Getting more like Taliban! A sad day........

Honestly speaking, I think its a fair "reminder" (especially those ladies who think skimpy and revealing dresses are norm but actually skimpy, its not rocket science to differentiate) for non-muslims females to dress decently without exposing too much. If I had a grown daughter, I certainly wouldn't encourage her dress in a manner that can attract attention. I still think its a fair reminder to improve declining Malaysian moral value, regardless of religion. C'mon folks!!, we deem ourselves East Asian and brought up with asian moral values...Need I elaborate?..go figure yourselves.. :cool:

Nevertheless, I'm now wondering how "sexy or revealing" Kelantan girls are weaing..that brought up the issue..

Proof or Pictures anyone?? :p

bobble
05-12-2006, 12:53 PM
Trader Che Suraya Hulaimi Sulaiman, 32, supported the council's move, saying: “Almost everywhere there are retail assistants or waitresses wearing sexy clothes.

“This is an insult to Islam.”

This is just one example of how everyone else must live to please people proclaiming to be Muslims. Why is the Islam faith so fragile that it's followers has to go to great lengths to enforce the religion on both adherents and infidels? It is so outrageously funny I wanna weep.

charis14
05-12-2006, 12:56 PM
...Is Selangor also another Islamic State? YES - except the Islamic laws are passed without any fanfare or knowledge of most parliamentarians. The same for a number of BN-controlled states.

penangkia
05-12-2006, 12:57 PM
Read this http://www.whrnet.org/fundamentalisms/docs/doc-wsf-zainah-malaysia-0311.rtf to have an idea of women's rights under Pas.

Sugarfree
05-12-2006, 01:05 PM
obviously, these morons haven't heard of "if you have it, flaunt it". besides, we're living in the 21st century, not the frigging stone age. :mad:

lynndhia
05-12-2006, 01:15 PM
obviously, these morons haven't heard of "if you have it, flaunt it". besides, we're living in the 21st century, not the frigging stone age. :mad:

well instead of moving ahead n forward with time, these buggers r moving backwards into the stone age :D

bobble
05-12-2006, 01:18 PM
well instead of moving ahead n forward with time, these buggers r moving backwards into the stone age :D

It is not a matter of position on a timeline. It is an issue on freedom of choice (within common law boundaries) versus the imposition of islamic fundamentalist laws.

sirgalahad2010
05-12-2006, 01:34 PM
It is not a matter of position on a timeline. It is an issue on freedom of choice (within common law boundaries) versus the imposition of islamic fundamentalist laws.

Well, to be fair, almost all religions have strictures against immodest dressing, especially when entering a house of worship. Try to enter a church belonging to one of the more fundamentalist Christian sects, or a Jewish synagogue, or a Hindu temple wearing "revealing" clothes and see how quickly you are read the riot act.

Even in an overtly secular country, like Turkey, for example, there are unwritten norms on how to dress appropriately. Even in supposedly secular countries like the US, Australia, England or the Scandinavian countries where women can dress in any way they please, certain lines are drawn between what is appropriate, what is sexy (a much misused term) or what is plain tawdry/indecent/immodest. And people know what these norms are and respect them.

Maybe a secular state has no business policing the morality of its citizens and residents and dictating dress codes to them. But there are certain norms to be observed and lines to be followed if people are to get along with one another.

clutz4words
05-12-2006, 01:36 PM
well instead of moving ahead n forward with time, these buggers r moving backwards into the stone age :D

Well frankly, i'm a P. Ramlee fan...the movies he produced had a certain level of exposure as well.... Question is now..WHY NOT THEN?????

It just a bunch of morons who cant have their own self satisfaction fulfilled now would like to imply it to others would does not need this.

WTF!!!!!! the way this pictures are drawn now surely is RACISM!!!! Cos it only concerns the Islamic ruling but not all M'sian are ISLAM- Thus trespassing the law of individual freedom.

Certain rule like we cant wear yellow colored dress in front of royalties, we understand la... But this is way too much that it involved individual rights.

D... the morons!!!!!!!

jasonbhlee
05-12-2006, 02:00 PM
I bet a lot of guys lining up to apply for the job as enforcement officers....snoop squad!!

AllUrban
05-12-2006, 02:04 PM
Well, to be fair, almost all religions have strictures against immodest dressing, especially when entering a house of worship. Try to enter a church belonging to one of the more fundamentalist Christian sects, or a Jewish synagogue, or a Hindu temple wearing "revealing" clothes and see how quickly you are read the riot act.to add to that, a woman cannot touch a buddhist priest or pass something over his head or sit next to him on the bus...woman cannot bare shoulders or knees when entering a buddhist temple....

how come no protests?

To my mind it's all about...pot vs. kettle....closing one eye....s/he who is without sin..........judge not, lest....do unto others....

Cheers, m

kfboy
05-12-2006, 02:05 PM
I bet a lot of guys lining up to apply for the job as enforcement officers....snoop squad!!

To share the piece of meat?

bobble
05-12-2006, 02:09 PM
to add to that, a woman cannot touch a buddhist priest or pass something over his head or sit next to him on the bus...woman cannot bare shoulders or knees when entering a buddhist temple....

how come no protests?

Come on...you're confusing respect for a place of worship, with council by-laws at public places that comes with a penalty:

Public relations officer Mohd Azman Daham said that under local council by-laws women who “dressed sexily or indecently” could be fined up to RM500.

AllUrban
05-12-2006, 02:21 PM
Come on...you're confusing respect for a place of worship, with council by-laws at public places that comes with a penalty:

Public relations officer Mohd Azman Daham said that under local council by-laws women who “dressed sexily or indecently” could be fined up to RM500. it's very easy to confuse sexism and chauvanism with fundamentalism

Just because someone wants to follow the fundamentals of their religion, or expect others to do the same, that does not make them backwards or ignorant.

anyone who wants to play with tar...must either tar everyone or tar no one.

Cheers, m

penangkia
05-12-2006, 02:23 PM
to add to that, a woman cannot touch a buddhist priest or pass something over his head or sit next to him on the bus...woman cannot bare shoulders or knees when entering a buddhist temple....

how come no protests?

To my mind it's all about...pot vs. kettle....closing one eye....s/he who is without sin..........judge not, lest....do unto others....

Cheers, m

Mr. AllUrban,

We are talking here about kelantan...a Malaysian state. Why bring in churches temples and priest :confused: Who is complaining here about dress codes going into a mosque ?
Of course there are accepted dress codes for special functions and occasions for different religions and cultures.
But it's something else when one gets fined for wearing jeans in a restaurant enjoying lunch.
That doesn't mean one has to be idiot to wear a bikini to a funeral and say it's her right of choice.

AllUrban
05-12-2006, 02:29 PM
Mr. AllUrban,

We are talking here about kelantan...a Malaysian state. Why bring in churches temples and priest :confused: Who is complaining here about dress codes going into a mosque ? we're talking about Kelantan, a conservative, malay majority state with an "Islamic" governing party, a self-proclaimed "Islamic" state and "Islamic" city...we're talking about one-upmanship in politics as well....

Because everything is declared to be "Islamic" (not that I approve...because "Islamic" is tough to define) the local council has given themselves the right to act as (arbitrary) defenders of decency (remember, they said "could" not would).

oh, and we are also talking about double standards...and passing judgement

cheers, m

penangkia
05-12-2006, 02:48 PM
we're talking about Kelantan, a conservative, malay majority state with an "Islamic" governing party, a self-proclaimed "Islamic" state and "Islamic" city...we're talking about one-upmanship in politics as well....

Because everything is declared to be "Islamic" (not that I approve...because "Islamic" is tough to define) the local council has given themselves the right to act as (arbitrary) defenders of decency (remember, they said "could" not would).

oh, and we are also talking about double standards...and passing judgement

cheers, m

Don't forget Kelantan is still subject to the secular Federal Constitution and any state laws that are in conflict to Federal Laws cannot hold in the secular Court of Law. Whether they say could or would is irrelavent, they being the state govt. should know better than to introduce such illegal laws, esp on infidels. Or are they suggesting that infidels can be charged in muslim courts ? :eek:

Double standards? Who is saying what Muslims cannot do that infidels can do ? :confused: Or were you refering to the "talibans" in kelantan?

Passing judgement?...that is the reason for this thread after Pas passed judgement on morality.

shandelxar
05-12-2006, 03:03 PM
it seems that kltn has ran out of rules to make. no open air concerts or any form of entertainment, and now they have this.

is this what that is defined as Islamic city?

firefox
05-12-2006, 03:06 PM
why blame the women if you find the meat looks tempting...dont your religion teach you to curb your imaginations and exercise self control...why others can and you cant...i find it hard to comprehend.

Pas is digging their own grave before the elections.

penangkia
05-12-2006, 03:28 PM
Don't know whether it's the lack of, or too many morality laws that gives kelantan the honour of having so many incest cases. :D :D

umno is truely blessed to have a political competitor for malay votes like this bunch. Many malays are in a dilemma like the non bumis. Hated umno but just cannot believe this bunch of fanatic clowns and are "forced" to vote BN.

tyngyee
05-12-2006, 03:38 PM
I went kelantan 2 years ago. it was peaceful town like any other town in malaysia, it's just the pace slower.

I cant notice any over limit "sexy" waitress there. When i saw a big advertisement board showing how good is the SUNSILK Shampoo with a beautiful malay lady wearing tudung, i just feel like interesting...

I would say it's a wonderful place with friendly and simple people, i am sure there r no extend to use the word "sexy" yet.

I think civilization and the maturity of citizen is the direction we wish to go rather than creating tons of rules to scare away tourism and tight our own feet to move forward.

USJ27Resident
05-12-2006, 05:37 PM
why blame the women if you find the meat looks tempting...dont your religion teach you to curb your imaginations and exercise self control...why others can and you cant...i find it hard to comprehend.

Pas is digging their own grave before the elections.

Well... firefox. Maybe that is why some quarters of the population WANTS desperately to cover up their women... so that they can go after other women, perhaps...

Ok... ok... remember when PAS made a statement that only UGLY women ought to be employed... That was hilarious,... but as an afterthought, maybe these ugly women found out about make-up and good dressing - they now look beautiful and sexy... and PAS, or the KB council is playing catch up - with these formerly ugly women... :p

bslee
05-12-2006, 05:39 PM
Aiyah..sometimes I feel its long winded and futile discuss about how Kelantan gomen in their approach of governance. They voted for them to rule..not once but twice.
Don't like their approach..move to another state lah..free country mah!..no need to KPC..

Kenneth20
05-12-2006, 05:41 PM
what a stupid joke... are they telling all of us that their "race" is so easily tempted by sexy dressings? NMCH..
:p
if want to implement, do it on their own "people" with the same "religion", dont impose on others that holds a different faith and way of life.

lynndhia
05-12-2006, 05:51 PM
they're just being sexist towards women in general, period.

a while back, Kelantan deputy mufti Datuk Mohamad Shukri Mohamad had this to say


“Thus wives who do not provide proper care for their husbands, including not fulfilling their sexual needs, can be considered as being unjust and abusive towards their husbands.

“These women can be charged under Section 128 (1) of the Kelantan Islamic Law Enactment 2002, which provides for a fine of RM1,000 or jail of up to six months or both upon conviction. "

Read more here (http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/7/22/nation/14914916&sec=nation) and it was discussed here (http://www.usj.com.my/bulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=13721) in the forum

first, fines for women not satisfying their husband's sexual needs, then now fines for women scantily clad. what's next? this state and this country never fail to surprise me.

Sugarfree
05-12-2006, 06:11 PM
It's absolutely insane, these rulings.

Luckily, it ain't like this in kayL. I just finished a job at an exhibition over the weekend. My Gawd, the way some of these promoters dressed! If our Kelantan folks came down here, sure faint one! Hehehe. One girl who was 1 day shy of 20, had a tattoo somewhere above her posterior. She swore it was real and told me if I didn't believed her, I could stroke it and see if it peeled off! Of course, I couldn't do that. It was in broad daylight, for the love of Gawd! Hmmmm, I had meant to say, I was aghast at such unbecoming behavior! :D I gave her a good peeling..errr..I mean, ticking off. She has promised to dress more decently in future. :rolleyes: :D

Nic_of_Time
05-12-2006, 06:20 PM
what's next? this state and this country never fail to surprise me.You shall never be surprised!!
It could be a possibility that some over zealous ulama may call for this fatwa;


Cairo - An Egyptian cleric's controversial fatwa claiming that nudity during sexual intercourse invalidates a marriage has uncovered a rift among Islamic scholars.

According to the religious edict issued by Rashad Hassan Khalil, a former dean of Al-Azhar University's faculty of Sharia (or Islamic law), "being completely naked during the act of coitus annuls the marriage".
Source: 'No nudity for sex' (http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_1859797,00.html)

lynndhia
05-12-2006, 06:26 PM
For his part, Al-Azhar's fatwa committee chairman Abdullah Megawar argued that married couples could see each other naked but should not look at each other's genitalia and suggested they cover up with a blanket during sex.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH LOLLLLLLL

they've got to be kidding :D

I smell a banana coming my way

Sugarfree
05-12-2006, 06:32 PM
Source: 'No nudity for sex' (http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_1859797,00.html)
This is absolutely crazy. Living sure ain't no more fun for those poor souls. If that's the case, I'd rather be an ant. What's the difference? Sheeezzzzz.

Hey, what about dirty talk during sex? That's disallowed as well? :D (I may kena whacked with a banana but I cudn't resist that line!)

penangkia
05-12-2006, 06:36 PM
You shall never be surprised!!
It could be a possibility that some over zealous ulama may call for this fatwa;


Source: 'No nudity for sex' (http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_1859797,00.html)

Good one Nic.

Isn't the Al-Azhar uni the top islamic uni in the world? Ex Dean fatwaed that? LOL heheheh :D :D

Well to him now, 99.999% of muslim marriages worldwide must be invalidated. Oh dear o dear... :D :D :D :D :D
Wonder how he did it? :rolleyes:

bslee
05-12-2006, 06:36 PM
You shall never be surprised!!
It could be a possibility that some over zealous ulama may call for this fatwa;
Source: 'No nudity for sex' (http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_1859797,00.html)

Its perhaps THEIR own interpretation.

There is a verse in the Quran :

"Your wives are a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth
when or how ye will" [al-Baqarah 2:223]

Flynn
05-12-2006, 06:53 PM
Its perhaps THEIR own interpretation.

There is a verse in the Quran :

"Your wives are a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth
when or how ye will" [al-Baqarah 2:223]

What does tilth mean?

Wong Sang
05-12-2006, 06:59 PM
This is absolutely crazy. Living sure ain't no more fun for those poor souls. If that's the case, I'd rather be an ant. What's the difference? Sheeezzzzz.

Hey, what about dirty talk during sex? That's disallowed as well? :D (I may kena whacked with a banana but I cudn't resist that line!)

Is life about sex only? Many people live very fruitful and completed lives without sex.

Sugarfree
05-12-2006, 06:59 PM
...remember when PAS made a statement that only UGLY women ought to be employed... That was hilarious...

There was a joke about that.

Apparently Nik Aziz (was that the guy who made the remark? can't remember now) owned many photo shops. And, yes, he did what he preached. He hired some ugly women to work for him...at the darkroom! :D :p

bslee
05-12-2006, 07:01 PM
What does tilth mean?


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tilth

Wong Sang
05-12-2006, 07:08 PM
Wanita MCA express outrage (http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/12/5/nation/16225266&sec=nation)

Wearing jeans emphasize the buttocks? even some skirts and slacks also does the same thing wat. then all the ladies have to wear sarong is it?

Tarnish the reputation of Kelantan being an Islamic city? Therefore, no freedom of choice or even dressing is it? To the extent of issuing a fine?

Seriously, no matter how much they ask us women to cover up "decently", there will never be an end to this. next thing they'll say is that the voice of the women when she talks is suggestive or too sexy therefore leading the men to rape her.

Even in iraq n places where the women r fully clothed, it's not like as if there are no rape cases there.

Ladies, this is only the tip of the iceberg. I shudder to think of what they'll come up with next.

PAS forms the State Government of Kelantan and it has the right to see fit what it deems as morally correct and proper. Please do not impose the so called universal 'right' on good people who have their own beliefs and ways of doing things. I have been to Kelantan many times and I have enjoyed every single visit. I did not even noticed whether the women were sexily dressed or demurely cladded. I went there for a holiday. I went to restaurants to eat and to supermarkets to buy my groceries. After all, if I want to see progressive young women in minimal of clothings, I can always find them in USJ.

munity
05-12-2006, 08:39 PM
Oooo...I found men in Kelantan wearing jeans very sexy...and and and those with their moustaches are very enticing. ;)
They better ban the men wearing jeans and fast shave off their moustaches. Oh, man...give me some cold water pls. ;)

tntn73
05-12-2006, 09:14 PM
first, fines for women not satisfying their husband's sexual needs, then now fines for women scantily clad. what's next?




Seriously, no matter how much they ask us women to cover up "decently", there will never be an end to this. next thing they'll say is that the voice of the women when she talks is suggestive or too sexy therefore leading the men to rape her.



Is sex the only reason in your mind for these?? you should thank your lucky stars if you are a woman appearing flagrantly drunk and demonstrating unruly behavior like holding a cigarrette maybe have you yourself witnessed that?? yet still able to walk the streets not expecting yourself to be 'hit', the worst case scenario at least maybe catcalls and piercing stares, no? assuming running around scantily skimpily dressed is OK. You had better think twice becoz this is showing a pretty ugly side to yourself! goodness gracious when are certain women learning how to be dress properly is this due to loose upbringing or simply IGNORANCE and don't start with WOMEN'S RIGHTS ETC ETC ETC ETC!!

Wong Sang
05-12-2006, 10:13 PM
Is sex the only reason in your mind for these?? Assuming running around scantily skimpily dressed is OK. You had better think twice becoz this is showing a pretty ugly side to yourself ! goodness gracious when are certain women learning how to be dress properly is this due to loose upbringing or simply IGNORANCE and don't start with WOMEN'S RIGHTS ETC ETC ETC ETC!!

I do declare you are right. It has nothing to do with women's rights etc. Well said.

Wong Sang
05-12-2006, 10:23 PM
well instead of moving ahead n forward with time, these buggers r moving backwards into the stone age :D

I am intrigued. Do you relate 'moving ahead and forward with time' to 'if you have it, flaunt it'?

jc86
05-12-2006, 10:32 PM
ermm .. how long more before they require women who can fit into a bra to go for breast reduction?

they've got a logical argument then .. why can't women be flat ? the world is flat too ....

isarahim
05-12-2006, 10:32 PM
Tarnish the reputation of Kelantan being an Islamic city?
Well again:

1. The relatively highest number of AIDS cases are in Kelantan.
2. The relatively highest number of incest cases are in Kelantan (dress rules don't apply within the family).
3. The highest number of Malay prostitutes come from Kelantan.
4. The relatively highest number of dadah addicts are from Kelantan.

I wonder how these bigots define 'tarnish'.

Well I only have one source for this, Marina M, but on the other hand, no one else has dared to do (or at least publish) any research on the matter. And since her research which was done a few years ago was pretty thorough and well intended (with no specific political agenda) I think it's close to the truth until further notice.

starrnorth
06-12-2006, 04:43 AM
The more you hide, the more attractive and desirable it becomess. Maybe it is one of the subtle ways to increase the desirability!!!

Anyway I wonder if we are in the year 2006, or year 0006

birdy
06-12-2006, 07:05 AM
Yes... I must agree with you Starrnorth. This is just how human brain will work... the more u hide, the more imaginative it can be.... damn... didn't these politicians watch some documentaries to improve their general knowledge?

Do u see rape cases happening at the beach in Florida? The ladies just exposed themselves and everyone treat them as if they are wearing the swimming costume.

orchipalar
06-12-2006, 07:07 AM
Is life about sex only? Many people live very fruitful and completed lives without sex.
PAS forms the State Government of Kelantan and it has the right to see fit what it deems as morally correct and proper. Please do not impose the so called universal 'right' on good people who have their own beliefs and ways of doing things.
Well again:

1. The relatively highest number of AIDS cases are in Kelantan.
2. The relatively highest number of incest cases are in Kelantan (dress rules don't apply within the family).
3. The highest number of Malay prostitutes come from Kelantan.
4. The relatively highest number of dadah addicts are from Kelantan.

I wonder how these bigots define 'tarnish'.Err...to the earlier question...since you brought it up for questioning...or was it meant to be for criticism sake...would you consider to question the same with PAS instead...?

or...perhaps easier if ya go ask the fried kuey teow guy in USJ2...or was it USJ4...?

kokomo
06-12-2006, 08:13 AM
Well again:

1. The relatively highest number of AIDS cases are in Kelantan.
2. The relatively highest number of incest cases are in Kelantan (dress rules don't apply within the family).
3. The highest number of Malay prostitutes come from Kelantan.
4. The relatively highest number of dadah addicts are from Kelantan.


Well, cases bout HIV in Kelantan being rate the highest is true. Cos if you go into Kelantan, everywhere you can see banners and signboards bout AIDS & HIV. If not mistaken, even some areas in Terengganu also have banners and boards.

Wong Sang
06-12-2006, 08:23 AM
Err...to the earlier question...since you brought it up for questioning...or was it meant to be for criticism sake...would you consider to question the same with PAS instead...?

or...perhaps easier if ya go ask the fried kuey teow guy in USJ2...or was it USJ4...?

Well. I really don't know, Mr Orchipalar. But I know that there are people who are completely illiterate to the level of imbecilism before Internet was invented. Such people like to quote from Wikipedia Encyclopedia Online because they think that whatever comes from there must be the absolute truth. The bottomline is that they are just like before the time of the Internet, they spend their time trying to be clever and think of themselves as leaders but in the eyes of others, they are a pathetic joke.

Don't make fun of fried kuey teow guys. They are smarter than you think.

:p

tntn73
06-12-2006, 08:23 AM
After all, if I want to see progressive young women in minimal of clothings, I can always find them in USJ.
based on this alone I can gather the one that complained the most will be the one you will see running around usj with minimal clothings not caring if that will lead men to stumble so why not just let everyone else enjoy the show let her flaunt it and applaud her some women and their shallowness can never be corrected.

jack12
06-12-2006, 09:41 AM
Yes, you are right. It is against morality and good behaviour.

Is sex the only reason in your mind for these?? you should thank your lucky stars if you are a woman appearing flagrantly drunk and demonstrating unruly behavior like holding a cigarrette maybe have you yourself witnessed that?? yet still able to walk the streets not expecting yourself to be 'hit', the worst case scenario at least maybe catcalls and piercing stares, no? assuming running around scantily skimpily dressed is OK. You had better think twice becoz this is showing a pretty ugly side to yourself! goodness gracious when are certain women learning how to be dress properly is this due to loose upbringing or simply IGNORANCE and don't start with WOMEN'S RIGHTS ETC ETC ETC ETC!!

AllUrban
06-12-2006, 09:53 AM
You shall never be surprised!!
It could be a possibility that some over zealous ulama may call for this fatwa;


Source: 'No nudity for sex' (http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_1859797,00.html)hahaha yes, again the muslim are overzealous...

Im confused...have you heard of the missionary position? Do you know why they call it this? Because in the past, when missionaries had sexual relations with their wives they did it fully clothed, although there was a strategically placed gap in their clothing.

Why? I have no idea...but if they did this in the last century (and I can promise you that some still do) then is it possible that back in the 7th century nudity was not acceptable even during sexual relations?

Let's get real for a moment...religious scholars of all religions like to look at old texts and tell people what to do. Politicians of all stripes and circles like to pick up on ideas and use them to tell the populace what to do...both groups will pick up on an issue to get themselves profile

generally the populace ignores the politicans, and does what they want in spite of what the religious scholars say.

By the way, before you start criticizing people for being "backwards," why do we sit and think that we are so "forwards" :confused:

and while we're at it, think about this.....some American states still have anti-sodomy laws....according to some people in other American states they are probably backwards...but what would the average Malaysian think????????

btw Penangkia, my problem is simply this...the double standard is that it is so easy to give blanket criticism, but not so easy to look at oneself and ones own actions...

Cheers, m

vsat
06-12-2006, 09:55 AM
I grew up in Kelantan. When PAS took over, sure they shut down 4D outlets, discos, clubs, etc. But isn't that good? The PAS government is ensuring families members do not go astray. Look at the divorce cases in KL.

My family is still there. My dad still enjoys his Bak Kut Teh and beers at night.
But now, having beers in restaurants.
Now if they had beers in nightclubs with GROs lingering around ....a family predicament may arise from that.
No 4D outlets. Deter gambling. No loan sharks.

Most of you guys criticising the PAS govt need to observe more on the bigger picture of the PAS govt.

So, what the PAS govt wants to do is instill family values and after all, what is more important than family.

sakaibear
06-12-2006, 09:59 AM
what has dressing inappropriately got to do with bad upbringing? and do define inappropriately. cos i believe that women have the right to wear what they see fit so long as you dont stroll the park in your delicates. mind you, there are women who dress provocatively but is she inviting unwanted attention? sure people will look but ask any woman out there..for a fact u can tell that none of them asked to get raped or harrassed or molested. those are just plain perverts doing their thing. if you people need someone to blame, blame the men. biologically men are made to be bigger, stronger and more commanding. what have these helpless women got to defend themselves against men? i am all for women's rights and in my opinion (i quote, my opinion) they can do what they want, dress how they want so long as they do not break the laws.

having said that, the fiasco that PAS has made may be a little over the top but they are governing that state and so be it. rules are rules. if you dont like it move. as there isnt much anyone can do about it considering the way malaysian politics are.

bottomline, women are not meant to be kept behind closed doors. they are equal to men and if men can wear shorts and singlets out.....so can women. so, don't judge and have some sense of civility.

xaviers
06-12-2006, 10:13 AM
stupid fellas... after the umno fresco..people were more inclined to support opposition...now these fellas do stupid thing like this bn fellas will whack them silly...create more political propaganda.

flowi
06-12-2006, 10:13 AM
THIS IS TOTALLY ABSURB! NONSENSE and uncalled for ..... Bet that most of the PAS leaders are pervert and kaki party!!! Sorry if my comment hurt some of you guys .... Ladies in Kelantan are elegant and full of budaya .... truly Malaysian Kampung heritage! They should be adored and dun deserved to be treated like this. For those who wants to see the real kampung girl, try to spend a few days around the outskirt of Kota Bahru and you will know what i mean. Kalau aku org melayu, aku kahwin 10!!! 1 org KL/PJ, 4 Terengganu and 5 org Kelate!! BTW, i am not form Kelantan .. he he he

penangkia
06-12-2006, 11:01 AM
btw Penangkia, my problem is simply this...the double standard is that it is so easy to give blanket criticism, but not so easy to look at oneself and ones own actions...

Cheers, m

Can you be more specific ? Who is blanket criticising?
Let me assure you, if a Buddhist monk or a Christian pastor came out publicly and proclaim something stupid like "women who wear tight fitting pants are immoral" etc. they will be "hantamed" just like any other holier than thou idiot.

What religious preachers say or teach inside the church, temple or mosque to their believers is another matter.

What double standards are you refering to ? :confused:

Bottomline, any law that is in conflict with, or touches on one's liberty as guarenteed under the Federal Contitution cannot be legal, especially if such laws are associated with religious concepts and applied onto non-belivers.

This is the main issue we are discussing here.

Sugarfree
06-12-2006, 11:09 AM
...perhaps easier if ya go ask the fried kuey teow guy in USJ2...or was it USJ4...?
USJ14, Lorong Selamat charkwaytiau! Yummy!

Hmmm..going to get some now....I mean, the charkwaytiau, of course! :D :p
:D

Yah
06-12-2006, 11:14 AM
http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/12/5/nation/16222713&sec=nation&focus=1 (http://http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/12/5/nation/16222713&sec=nation&focus=1)

So what do u guyz think about this new rule??
Honestly i think its extremely stupid for whoever to implement this ruling..TY
Even worse,they implement it on non-muslims also.Cannot tahan these morons! Sorry for the harsh words..

Man make the law..man can change the law..
If can not change law.. next step change government..
ie look at it from the legal point.. not emotion lah! :D

orchipalar
06-12-2006, 11:29 AM
"while non-Muslims should not wear outfits which expose their navels, show a lot of cleavage and emphasise the buttocks."

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/12/6/nation/16232962&sec=nation


and while we're at it, think about this.....some American states still have anti-sodomy laws....according to some people in other American states they are probably backwards...but what would the average Malaysian think????????Err buddy...Orchi heard...Canadian law now permits anal sex in private for adults over 18 yo...provided there are NO more than 2 person in the same vicinity...

but lets not go to that extreme for this local Kelantan state governing issues...which sees fit to regulate the dressing of Non-Muslims as well...

n how does it define dresses that's over emphasizing the buttocks...?

or...would the traditional Malay dress baju kebaya be categorized as that...?

or...any sorta jeans...skirt or pants...won by Non-Muslim women could be seen or misinterpreted as that by the authority there...

n btw...the traditional Indian dress for women...the sari would show their navels...

bugbear
06-12-2006, 11:55 AM
Here is my two cents. Me think PAS has got all the right in the world to proclaim the dress code for Kelantan as they are in power there. I don't see our UMNOputras up in arm over this issue except maybe Sharizat. This is because UMNO too would not like to lose out to PAS in being seen as more holy than PAS if not already. This is precisely why PAS win in Kelantan. The Kelantanese prefers PAS and therefore have no problem with the edict. As for those not happy with this, then vote PAS out the next time around.

KelvC
06-12-2006, 01:10 PM
My take is, if you think the local state laws are infringing your Constitutional rights then take it to court. Preferably, make it a class action suit. That is what the Federal Court is for, to interpret and defend your Constitutional rights.

Also, i don't think local Kelante sales girls dress like this (http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/12/5/nation/16222713&sec=nation&focus=1). I have been to Kelantan in my previous years and have not seen these dresses on any ladies before.

I believe it is the Administration trying to divert attention here after the recent GA bashing. As you can see there may be a systematic effort here, which PAS is the first in the list next PKR or DAP, to remove any confidence garnered recently. Since AI can only stand for election after Feb '08 (convicted for corruption but acquitted of sodomy charges) as per the Election Commission policy, the Administration may hold the election on or before Feb 2008 to avoid facing AI. FYI, CNY '08 is expected to fall on Feb 7th.

Let’s not waver our resolve here.

tntn73
06-12-2006, 01:25 PM
But I know that there are people who are completely illiterate to the level of imbecilism before Internet was invented. Such people like to quote from Wikipedia Encyclopedia Online because they think that whatever comes from there must be the absolute truth. The bottomline is that they are just like before the time of the Internet, they spend their time trying to be clever and think of themselves as leaders but in the eyes of others, they are a pathetic joke.

Don't make fun of fried kuey teow guys. They are smarter than you think.

:p

:D No names please thank you. There's definitely worst kinds those who repeatedly disguising in dozens of different 'clothings' on the internet to cause mayhem confusion and gee i wonder what they do before the internet to get attention in desperation.



what has dressing inappropriately got to do with bad upbringing?

they can do what they want, dress how they want so long as they do not break the laws.


yes yes please refer to this earlier post and do what you and your friends deem dignified and pleasing to society. Enuf said time to flaunt your assets.


based on this alone I can gather the one that complained the most will be the one you will see running around usj with minimal clothings not caring if that will lead men to stumble so why not just let everyone else enjoy the show let her flaunt it and applaud her some women and their shallowness can never be corrected.

Blue Jasmine
06-12-2006, 01:43 PM
If anyone wants to make changes why dont they banned those skimpy models in the TV advertising, magazine ot newspaper...Why choose us to make the changes first? Maybe change together also good...but change the media first...Blame the advertising companies..Is because of them we try to mimic those at the media...the skimpy models...hah

Blue Jasmine
06-12-2006, 01:46 PM
I grew up in Kelantan. When PAS took over, sure they shut down 4D outlets, discos, clubs, etc. But isn't that good? The PAS government is ensuring families members do not go astray. Look at the divorce cases in KL.

My family is still there. My dad still enjoys his Bak Kut Teh and beers at night.
But now, having beers in restaurants.
Now if they had beers in nightclubs with GROs lingering around ....a family predicament may arise from that.
No 4D outlets. Deter gambling. No loan sharks.

Most of you guys criticising the PAS govt need to observe more on the bigger picture of the PAS govt.

So, what the PAS govt wants to do is instill family values and after all, what is more important than family.


I agree with you, it seems there is a lot of advantages over the disadvantages..when ppl cannot gamble then they wont lose money then they wont borrow from loan sharks....but in the end moderation is the key. only thing i dunt like is the 1 men can have 4 women law...

johndee
06-12-2006, 06:57 PM
I will vote for the opposition in the next GE even if its PAS against BN. Obviously the BN govt is doing its best to paint PAS as extremists by using the govt-controlled media, but after the last UMNO AGM we know who are the real extremists. Not to mention all the fiasco and abuses at the various local municipals, the AP issue, "close one eye" MP, the come-back kid who was caught smuggling few million ringgit at the Aussie airport... Need i add more??? Whatever it is, we need to increase the opposition (any opposition) and reduce the BN brute majority in the next GE :mad:

johndee
06-12-2006, 07:04 PM
only thing i dunt like is the 1 men can have 4 women law... :D Thats from ur perspective, but i m sure many males like this law..LOL :D Seriously tho, i believe thats just for Muslims only and its not restricted to Kelantan alone.

Sugarfree
06-12-2006, 08:02 PM
Many people live very fruitful and completed lives without sex.
Really? That I didn't know. Hmmm....

Sugarfree
06-12-2006, 08:10 PM
..only thing i dunt like is the 1 men can have 4 women law...
hehehe..wonder how the guys will react if it's reversed. that'll be the day.

pepsi
06-12-2006, 08:32 PM
I grew up in Kelantan. When PAS took over, sure they shut down 4D outlets, discos, clubs, etc. But isn't that good? The PAS government is ensuring families members do not go astray. Look at the divorce cases in KL.
No 4D outlets. Deter gambling. No loan sharks.
Most of you guys criticising the PAS govt need to observe more on the bigger picture of the PAS govt.
So, what the PAS govt wants to do is instill family values and after all, what is more important than family.
Sounds like PAS has a lot of "good intentions" but is it really as beautiful as you said?
I know of some people from Trengganu that actually drive in to Pahang for all the action. Some things not in sight doesn't mean everything is what we think it is. The fact that it is ban, could make people play "hide n seek".
I believe most people are concern that the new regulation may be "abused". Who is to be the judge of what is decent n not decent ?Different people have different views. Most people would think jeans and pants are not indecent. Eg the controversy of "kissing" in public. There is also the opinion of the non muslims who feel that the rule should not apply to them. Anyway, I believe the Kelanatan women would feel awkward if they were not dress appropriately for any function or jobs. No need for us to "tell" them what they should or should not wear.

johndee
07-12-2006, 01:15 AM
Is life about sex only? Many people live very fruitful and completed lives without sex.Completed is indeed the keyword here. :D

de_scorpio
07-12-2006, 01:37 AM
Is life about sex only? Many people live very fruitful and completed lives without sex.


sounds like u are one of them.

isarahim
07-12-2006, 05:56 AM
....but in the end moderation is the key. only thing i dunt like is the 1 men can have 4 women law...
I think the Kelantanese Ulama who was in the papers in 2004 sets the example. 4 wives in KB, 4 wives in Thailand + 4 of his daughters. That's 12.

birdy
07-12-2006, 06:19 AM
I just can't imagine what will happen if PAS were to win more seats in other states? All the karoke shops and entertainment area must be closed.... thus everyone has more money to save! :D

This is the typical traditional muslim thinking ... why can't they control by themselves and must depend on other to control for them? Dressing sexily is not telling you "hey, come and molest or rape me" ... why must someone change the dressing to prevent all these ... can't the men the one change the thinking? :o

firefox
07-12-2006, 08:10 AM
come on lah! sometime ago you bash up umno now its pas turn make up your mind... then you want to vote for a alternative government...finally we will all vote for BN once again.

birdy
07-12-2006, 08:45 AM
Bashing PAS does not mean that we have to vote for BN..... there is still other opposition parties - don't forget the one with the blue flag! ;)

Anyway... whichever political bodies won also will hv someone being systematically marginalized.............. :o That's nature of human being.

penangkia
07-12-2006, 08:52 AM
As I have said earlier in another thread:

DO NOT VOTE FOR RELIGION AND RACE BASED POLITICAL PARTIES.

SAVE MALAYSIA.

firefox
07-12-2006, 09:03 AM
DAP is a 100% race party n Keadilan is a umno breakway party to mainly save annuar Ibrahim and a party of no substance , now what do you have?

Yah
07-12-2006, 09:37 AM
they ....but in the end moderation is the key. only thing i dunt like is the 1 men can have 4 women law...
Solly Jonalice.. that one is GOD's law.. not man made law.. so can't change.
(changing religion too not so easy for some religion because of man made law) there is more to poligamy than just opening branches lah. Many just do what Prophet do but not what prophet say.

isarahim
07-12-2006, 11:25 AM
.. that one is GOD's law.. not man made law.. so can't change.
Wrong. It's a man-made interpretation of God's words taken out of context. Besides there are many God's laws which the Malaysian variant of Islam does not follow, so obviously they can be changed.

orchipalar
07-12-2006, 11:49 AM
Err buddies...speaking of proper attires for women the desert environment...Orchi once thought that the women had to be completely covered due to harsh weather n environmental elements...nothing else or before any religions...

penangkia
07-12-2006, 12:27 PM
DAP is a 100% race party n Keadilan is a umno breakway party to mainly save annuar Ibrahim and a party of no substance , now what do you have?

Just because DAP is majority Chinese, it does not mean it's a race based party. Read their constitution. LKS and Karpal Singh somehow don't seem to come from the same race. Similarly P Patto and and several others.
Umno wants you to believe that they (DAP) are race based, esp. threaten the malayu to believe so.

Gerakan is OK too, provided they cut their links to BN and vote out the gutless Dr.koh. The old LKY is retiring anyway.

I agree that keadilan is missionless except for the AI factor. They better come out with some solid mission statements if they want to remain relevant. I think the "has-been" AI overrated himself. But if your choice is only between bn and keadilan, vote for the latter too.

We do not need many opposition parties. Just support DAP in the next GE.

We need to do something rather than just giving up.... and that again is what BN aka umno wants you to do.

( sorry for diverting from the thread )

firefox
07-12-2006, 01:55 PM
having Indians in DAP is mere window dressing....but no doubt we have no other choice do we?

isarahim
07-12-2006, 02:29 PM
DAP is a 100% race party n Keadilan is a umno breakway party to mainly save annuar Ibrahim and a party of no substance , now what do you have?
I think it's important to consider what the partys stand for *now*. What their party programme is *now*. Not their history. Keadilan, for instance, may have commenced as a breakaway party, but a lot of things have happened since then. It's not a race based party today.

firefox
07-12-2006, 02:41 PM
I think it's important to consider what the partys stand for *now*. What their party programme is *now*. Not their history. Keadilan, for instance, may have commenced as a breakaway party, but a lot of things have happened since then. It's not a race based party today.


we dont hear of keadilan except just before the elections, maybe you have some inside infromation which you may wish to share... you know i am still undecided whom i should vote this time...i have no choice but to spoil my vote unless you can justify that Keadilan is made up of honest proffessional ppl and are mulitracial, just for a start.

Raikonen
07-12-2006, 03:03 PM
If one wanna cast a spoilt vote, it is his/her right. But to me it is stupidity becoz it doesnt make a difference to the election. Might as well stay home and not vote. No need to waste time, petrol to go to polling center and waste paper to vote.

flowi
07-12-2006, 05:12 PM
If one wanna cast a spoilt vote, it is his/her right. But to me it is stupidity becoz it doesnt make a difference to the election. Might as well stay home and not vote. No need to waste time, petrol to go to polling center and waste paper to vote.

Agree with Raikonen ....... Dun waste your money on petrol that way. Well, with Malaysian generally with short memory, Pak Lah will object on the toll hike and he will approve something for the rakyat before the GE and after that .... the Malaysian will vote for BN again.

Problem is that the opposition is not doing enuf to convince the rakyat and best of all ... the rakyat dare not take risk in voting for them. Its a decision that will risk their income and business and also way of living. If the only worthy opposition is PAS .. that solve our problem.. JUS STICK TO BN!
Cheers, something to digest " Avoid obsession to avoid addiction (todays paper)" :cool:

bslee
07-12-2006, 05:59 PM
If the only worthy opposition is PAS.

THAT'S the BIGGEST predicament to all!.. BN made it cock-sure we'd all have nothing much to choose from. :cool:

Put a monkey right next to the dacing, and I'll still put a cross at the monkey!
Point is...THEY HAVE TO GO!!..period!

Sorry to all if going OT...but its relevant!.

Raikonen
07-12-2006, 08:11 PM
The opposition must strive to do all that the DevilPutras are not doing. Practice meritocracy and recruit young capable ppl to join the party ranks. Get candidates who can connect with the rakyat who toil day and nite just to put food on the table. They must project themselves as credible opposition with capable, common sense leaders. Pls...We must change the political system with our votes now!!!

isarahim
07-12-2006, 10:02 PM
i have no choice but to spoil my vote unless you can justify that Keadilan is made up of honest proffessional ppl and are mulitracial, just for a start.
The most important thing right now is to break the dotted lines between BN and civil service, justice, police, military, ACA, GLCs etc etc.

This alone will improve this country radically.

Whether it's Keadilan or DAP or any coalition between the two doesn't matter. A continued BN rule is the worst threat imaginable.

isarahim
07-12-2006, 10:18 PM
Problem is that the opposition is not doing enuf to convince the rakyat and best of all ...
And why do you think so? Kindly advise the method and media the opposition can use to get their voice heard? There's none. BN is pulling the justice system, the media, the police etc just like a wayang kulit puppet.

the rakyat dare not take risk in voting for them.
I disagree. The rakyat will not take the far more dangerous risk to vote for BN again.

isarahim
07-12-2006, 10:25 PM
Its a decision that will risk their income and business and also way of living.
It's BN's repeatedly demonstrated complete inability to rid the country of corruption that is the main threat to our way of living. BN is part of the problem. They cannot solve the problem since they're part and parcel of it, inasmuch as you cannot get cancer cells to heal a cancer growth. On top of this, we have the racism which is intrinsically part of their core ideology. They cannot come to terms with it. We need to oust this monstrosity before the country is shattered.

birdy
07-12-2006, 10:46 PM
Problem is that the opposition is not doing enuf to convince the rakyat and best of all ... the rakyat dare not take risk in voting for them. Its a decision that will risk their income and business and also way of living.
The people has to give them an opportunity (say maybe 5 years) to prove their abilities. I believe the opposition can do something better than what we have now if given the opportunity.... How can they do enuf right now when their hand and legs are tied up by BN?

If the only worthy opposition is PAS .. that solve our problem.. JUS STICK TO BN!
Cheers, something to digest " Avoid obsession to avoid addiction (todays paper)" :cool:
Though I don't really support BN, I will not want PAS to win also.. imagine how will Malaysia look like if PAS were to take over one day... all men hv to wear songkot irrespective whether u r muslim or not... and no night life for all states... and girls hv to wear like Ninja!
Nevertheless, why should we stick to BN, knowing that they can't do anything now... there are other opposition parties to try... we can give Keadilan and DAP a chance to let them proof their abilities. :eek:

orchipalar
07-12-2006, 11:44 PM
Problem is that the opposition is not doing enuf to convince the rakyat and best of all ... the rakyat dare not take risk in voting for them. Its a decision that will risk their income and business and also way of living. If the only worthy opposition is PAS .. that solve our problem.. JUS STICK TO BN!Err buddy...sorry for this digression...just it has to be mentioned...

In the last 2004 General Election...BN 'obtained' 64% of the 'election' votes...while the Oppositions received over 32% votes from its voters(2.2 millions voters)...out of 6.9 millions voters that voted in that GE...

Ahem...n how do you suppose...that BN has obtained 198 seats(more than 90%)...vs merely 21 seats(only 9%) that the Opposition parties(PAS included) won...in the freaking Parliament...now?

n did you know that...even IF BN gets 30% of the votes from the total votes in the next GE...they could still occupy over 60% seats in the Parliament...?

So what do you suggest that those Opposition members of Parliament or their respective parties should do MORE...when the country n its government is 'hijacked' by them UMNO led BN coalition parties...???

orchipalar
08-12-2006, 12:44 AM
Only Muslim women can be fined

07 Dec 2006

Sulaiman Jaafar and June Ramli

KOTA BARU: Only Muslim women will be liable to fines under a new Kelantan state government by-law against "indecent dressing".

http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/nst/Thursday/National/20061207092251/Article/local1_html


I think the Kelantanese Ulama who was in the papers in 2004 sets the example. 4 wives in KB, 4 wives in Thailand + 4 of his daughters. That's 12.Err...would they think about implementing a regulation to penalize that Ulama...for his actions...?

USJ27Resident
08-12-2006, 03:00 AM
It's BN's repeatedly demonstrated complete inability to rid the country of corruption that is the main threat to our way of living. BN is part of the problem. They cannot solve the problem since they're part and parcel of it, inasmuch as you cannot get cancer cells to heal a cancer growth. On top of this, we have the racism which is intrinsically part of their core ideology. They cannot come to terms with it. We need to oust this monstrosity before the country is shattered.

Is BN really part of the problem? I think not... I think ALL present politicians ARE the problem.. They should read this (http://www.sun2surf.com/article.cfm?id=16316) and then learn the true meaning about being politicians...

As always - I have only contempt for these kind of people.... :mad:

And as far as I am concerned, I hope they will go charter a luxury liner and go sc*** themselves to hell... :mad:

isarahim
08-12-2006, 03:45 AM
Is BN really part of the problem? I think not... I think ALL present politicians ARE the problem..
I disagree. It's an institutional problem. BN, and in particular UMNO, is the institution. It's not individual politicians per se. It's BN as an institution that has outlived itself, ruled for too long, rotted from the inside and become irrelevant and inept for the hard and fast decisions that needs to be made. Assume you replace all the individuals in BN; the problems would still remain. The individuals would soon be shaped and aligned according to the structures that they work in. And their behaviour would soon align with those that they replaced.

isarahim
08-12-2006, 04:01 AM
This is just how human brain will work... the more u hide, the more imaginative it can be.... damn... didn't these politicians watch some documentaries to improve their general knowledge? Do u see rape cases happening at the beach in Florida? The ladies just exposed themselves and everyone treat them as if they are wearing the swimming costume.
Indeed. There have been many rape cases this year when the victim has been clad in tudung. There were even indications that the tudung had served as fetish. Consequently, the tudong should be banned. There should be a fine for every woman wearing tudong, because it has now developed into a sexual fetish.

kevin23
08-12-2006, 10:49 AM
Indeed. There have been many rape cases this year when the victim has been clad in tudung. There were even indications that the tudung had served as fetish. Consequently, the tudong should be banned. There should be a fine for every woman wearing tudong, because it has now developed into a sexual fetish.


Wow,very well said..Must be a modern Malay? :D

isarahim
08-12-2006, 10:59 AM
Wow,very well said..Must be a modern Malay?
Maybe. But it's also an almost verbatim quote of one of my uncles who recently became 94 years old....haha

Rocky19
08-12-2006, 11:29 AM
“It is an Islamic ruling, so nobody should undermine or question it,” said the PAS spiritual adviser, after closing a spiritual enrichment programme for women NGO Purnama here."

I found this statement above by the Nik Aziz the most worrying!! We have no right to question the ruling cos it is made in the name of Islam. He back tracked next day by saying that the ruling doesn't cover non muslims. Hopefully someone who is fined will take them to the courts as these buggers can't just past laws that are against the constitution. But do watch out for statements like above which also comes from UMNO ppl.Maybe Ghani Othman will be talking about this in the next UMNO assembly. Malaysia Bodoh is getting better in the eyes of the world..Malaysia Boleh!!!

penangkia
08-12-2006, 12:20 PM
Going by nik aziz's talibanic islam, islamic countries should never have held any Games such as Asian games, SEA games, Olympic Games etc.
Just saw the women walkathon on TV....our Asian women competitors were wearing shorts...some even walking in bikini type outfits....walking miles around the public streets of Doha. Funny I don't see Arab men salivating and running amok waiting to pounce on these pretty lasses walking and rocking their buttocks in fast sideway motions and showing off belly buttons. Maybe, they have locked up all them arabs. :p

Nik should send some of his holy men to Doha and tell them muslim brothers to stop all this immorality from taking place on muslim land.

They must insist those Chinese, Korean, Japanese, etc. women swimmers and divers to cover-up to the ankle and no tight outfits. Same apply to them female field athletes, weightlifters, sepak takraw...all must be in full arabic female garbs...including female gymnasts doing backflips and rolls.

bslee
08-12-2006, 12:25 PM
I found this statement above by the Nik Aziz the most worrying!! We have no right to question the ruling cos it is made in the name of Islam.

Aiyah!..nothing really new lah. This fashion of statement or outburst (sometimes even more offensive and vulgar) can be heard from anyone in a position of authority or superiority, whether be a mandor, department supervisor, manager, corporate head or politician.
Just keep cool and not be overly sensitive to their statements.

razy
08-12-2006, 12:47 PM
Yess...!! It isn't nothing new .... It is just a rules for Muslim ladies ONLY...
and definitely NOT APPLY for Non-Muslim... !!

razy
08-12-2006, 01:02 PM
... It is stated in Quran .... but then, if the rule for Muslim ladies ONLY....
I don't understand why Non-Muslim "bising-bising" ... ??...

_________
like to learn more Islam from cassette Kuliah Ust Shamsuri :
http://www.geocities.com/gll_kaset_agama

yokeimm
08-12-2006, 02:30 PM
because it is about women. the muslim ladies are also women. the ruling undermines women. it infers that women are the root of all problems, muslim women in particular. we are not the problem. everyone must take responsibility for their own actions, including men. doesnt mean that just because you are a man, you can do whatever you feel like doing, and then blame it on the woman when you feel like it. covering the women will not stop incests, rapes or crimes against women.

sirgalahad2010
08-12-2006, 03:19 PM
Going by nik aziz's talibanic islam, islamic countries should never have held any Games such as Asian games, SEA games, Olympic Games etc.
Just saw the women walkathon on TV....our Asian women competitors were wearing shorts...some even walking in bikini type outfits....walking miles around the public streets of Doha. Funny I don't see Arab men salivating and running amok waiting to pounce on these pretty lasses walking and rocking their buttocks in fast sideway motions and showing off belly buttons. Maybe, they have locked up all them arabs. :p

Nik should send some of his holy men to Doha and tell them muslim brothers to stop all this immorality from taking place on muslim land.

They must insist those Chinese, Korean, Japanese, etc. women swimmers and divers to cover-up to the ankle and no tight outfits. Same apply to them female field athletes, weightlifters, sepak takraw...all must be in full arabic female garbs...including female gymnasts doing backflips and rolls.

Umm...sorry to burst your bubble, but check out the AP report ("Time to cover up") in the Spore TODAY newspaper (http://www.todayonline.com), Dec 8.

It said, interalia, that "though they are still free to compete in bikinis, female beach volleyball players at the Asian Games have been told to cover up following their matches out of deference to local customs."

It quoted Asian Beach Volleyball Confederation chairwoman Rita Subowo as having said: "....but we did inform them that once they walk off the court they need to be courteous to the spectators and the public by putting on some additional clothing." Players have been instructed to wear jackets or cover at least their shoulders after they finish their games.

See the operative phrases - "deference to local customs" and "..need to be courteous to...the public"? Simple commonsense, right?

Yet a lot of people seem to have got their knickers in a twist over this...

isarahim
08-12-2006, 03:48 PM
... It is stated in Quran .... but then, if the rule for Muslim ladies ONLY....
It's only stated in the Quran if you reserve yourself the right to add bits and pieces to God's words. The relevant Ayat is 24:31. Read it and you'll see why.

bslee
08-12-2006, 04:12 PM
It's only stated in the Quran if you reserve yourself the right to add bits and pieces to God's words. The relevant Ayat is 24:31. Read it and you'll see why.

Do provide a link on that ayat, I'd like to read it. thank you.

isarahim
08-12-2006, 05:09 PM
Do provide a link on that ayat, I'd like to read it. thank you.

http://quran.al-islam.com/Targama/DispTargam.asp?nType=1&nSeg=0&l=eng&nSora=24&nAya=30&t=eng

Only bosom specifically mentioned. Nothing about covering heads.

firefox
08-12-2006, 05:40 PM
i think its about time we leave the muslims to interpret the Koran their way..what is that to us. Religious topics have always been a issue, its for them to decide how they want to interperet it n it is not the business of the non muslims to question.

Be faithful to your own religion and be a good one. Peace

penangkia
08-12-2006, 05:45 PM
Umm...sorry to burst your bubble, but check out the AP report ("Time to cover up") in the Spore TODAY newspaper (http://www.todayonline.com), Dec 8.

It said, interalia, that "though they are still free to compete in bikinis, female beach volleyball players at the Asian Games have been told to cover up following their matches out of deference to local customs."

It quoted Asian Beach Volleyball Confederation chairwoman Rita Subowo as having said: "....but we did inform them that once they walk off the court they need to be courteous to the spectators and the public by putting on some additional clothing." Players have been instructed to wear jackets or cover at least their shoulders after they finish their games.

See the operative phrases - "deference to local customs" and "..need to be courteous to...the public"? Simple commonsense, right?

Yet a lot of people seem to have got their knickers in a twist over this...

Couldn't find the story. Anyway, I was refering to nik aziz's islam in my previous post.

So, going by your post, it's OK to be "immoral" while competing but cover-up after that.
I suppose it's OK too to run miles and miles of marathon in crowed public streets wearing bikini like outfits...but cover-up after that...then everything is fine...
Yea..simple commonsense and wonderful logic :rolleyes:

isarahim
08-12-2006, 06:04 PM
i think its about time we leave the muslims to interpret the Koran their way..what is that to us. Religious topics have always been a issue, its for them to decide how they want to interperet it n it is not the business of the non muslims to question.
I understand and respect your view.

However, in this thread was about a new law based on an alleged "islamic ruling" and which has implications also for non-muslims. There were also a number of prejudices voiced earlier in the thread about what the Quran says and does not say. Hence it's important to go back to the root and bring forth what is actually written. And not surprisingly, which is tragically often the case with the Holy Quran, the actual God's words are quite different from the interpretation that is forced upon us.

And what is really upsetting is that it's these so called ulamas who are always the first to blame the west for demonisation of Islam when it's actually them themselves who are the reasons why it's happening.

And speaking of ulamas, the following article is really good... :-)

http://www.malaysiakini.com/opinionfeatures/60563

sirgalahad2010
08-12-2006, 06:24 PM
Couldn't find the story. Anyway, I was refering to nik aziz's islam in my previous post.

So, going by your post, it's OK to be "immoral" while competing but cover-up after that.
I suppose it's OK too to run miles and miles of marathon in crowed public streets wearing bikini like outfits...but cover-up after that...then everything is fine...
Yea..simple commonsense and wonderful logic :rolleyes:

Sorry, brudder, but I wasn't making this up, honest. Just ask Ms Rita Subowo!

In any case, it was Ms Subowo's views that I was quoting.

I was watching the telecast of the Asian Games women's marathon this afternoon - the Chinese and Japanese runners were wearing one-piece leotards. Revealing? No. Sexy? Heck, yes! Think toned bodies and legs that go on forever... :D :D :D

And I remember that when the Commonwealth Games was held in KL, the women athletes from Australia, the UK, the West Indies and New Zealand competed in the track and field events wearing 2-piece bikini-like outfits. And nary a peep from anyone!

firefox
08-12-2006, 06:35 PM
I understand and respect your view.

However, in this thread was about a new law based on an alleged "islamic ruling" and which has implications also for non-muslims. There were also a number of prejudices voiced earlier in the thread about what the Quran says and does not say. Hence it's important to go back to the root and bring forth what is actually written. And not surprisingly, which is tragically often the case with the Holy Quran, the actual God's words are quite different from the interpretation that is forced upon us.

And what is really upsetting is that it's these so called ulamas who are always the first to blame the west for demonisation of Islam when it's actually them themselves who are the reasons why it's happening.

And speaking of ulamas, the following article is really good... :-)

http://www.malaysiakini.com/opinionfeatures/60563



okay i dont intend to purse this issue any further, n coming back to the topic n before i call it a day, frankly this issue is just a storm over a tea cup and just like many ridiculous rulings from the Pas Government, this would just evaporate into thin air. I dont think the Pas goverment is so absurd to implement this ruling to non malays and jeopardise their elections chances.


have a blessed weekend folks

sirgalahad2010
08-12-2006, 06:43 PM
okay i dont intend to purse this issue any further, n coming back to the topic n before i call it a day, frankly this issue is just a storm over a tea cup and just like many ridiculous rulings from the Pas Government, this would just evaporate into thin air. I dont think the Pas goverment is so absurd to implement this ruling to non malays and jeopardise their elections chances.

have a blessed weekend folks

I believe they clarified that the "ruling" applies only to Muslims, not to non-Muslims. But they did "advise" non-Muslim women to "respect Muslim sensitivities and dress decently when they go out in public" (Nik Abdul Aziz).

And I agree, its time that this topic is given a rest. Maybe Mr Chang could put a padlock on it?

USJ27Resident
08-12-2006, 10:03 PM
“It is an Islamic ruling, so nobody should undermine or question it,” said the PAS spiritual adviser, after closing a spiritual enrichment programme for women NGO Purnama here.".....

Its an islamic ruling, so nobody should undermine or question it... Its an UMNO ruling, so nobody should... its a BN ruling, so nobody should... its a Govt ruling, so nobody should...

.... gimme a freak break-la... in other words, as long as the person or party is holding the power, just shut the **** up and nobody should SPEAK up??? Is this how the way things are done... :mad:

starrnorth
09-12-2006, 03:45 AM
We cannot keep quiet. If things are not what working well, we have to speak out. If not, it will be taken as accepted and it will be implemented.

For example, the fiasco about the Klang revalue of property.. If people do not speak out and protext the new rate, the council will think that you accept it.

Even for bank statements, their disclaimer is that you check and inform them within 7 days otherwise it is deem correct.

pepsi
09-12-2006, 12:39 PM
We cannot keep quiet. If things are not what working well, we have to speak out. If not, it will be taken as accepted and it will be implemented.

For example, the fiasco about the Klang revalue of property.. If people do not speak out and protext the new rate, the council will think that you accept it.

Even for bank statements, their disclaimer is that you check and inform them within 7 days otherwise it is deem correct.

I wonder what the people in Kelantan feedback ?

evecyanide
09-12-2006, 02:38 PM
Well, for all I know... I shan't be going back to Kota Bharu anytime soon! I've always gone out with just a top and shorts! Hmm.. reminds me, I' d have to get more XXL long pants and shirts for my next trip home.. sigh...

bslee
09-12-2006, 02:39 PM
I dont think the Pas goverment is so absurd to implement this ruling to non malays and jeopardise their elections chances.



Like anyone could say "orang tua dah nyanyuk", controversial statements does come from the mouths from old men who think they're saying out of higher sanity, maturity and of authority. Like father telling the kid..mustn't do this, mustn't do that!.
Like many who grow old, their sanity naturally slides and they DON'T see the implications and far reaching effects that can hurt many, especially now that Malaysians are more sensitive to controversial statements or outbursts.
Its sad we are now plagued with leaders and individuals that lack many essential leadership qualities including tact when dealing with the rakyat.

starrnorth
10-12-2006, 02:51 AM
You cannot dress sexily now.

Maybe next time you cannot talk sexily, or walk sexily, maybe your body also cannot be sexy so you have to change your shape. Wonder of wonders, or it is horror of horrors.

isarahim
10-12-2006, 10:33 AM
And to add to my previous list, again Kelantan tops the 'surf for porn' list.

http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/12/10/nation/16280253&sec=nation

flowi
11-12-2006, 11:12 AM
Well, for all I know... I shan't be going back to Kota Bharu anytime soon! I've always gone out with just a top and shorts! Hmm.. reminds me, I' d have to get more XXL long pants and shirts for my next trip home.. sigh...

Hi Y'all ... was away over the weekend and to assure Eve ..... only Muslim Women will be fine, you dun haf to change your wardrobe! Just assured my wifey and frens too ... we are regular in Perhentian.

Gonna take some time to run throught he thread i missed!! Till then, happy holidays !! :rolleyes:

bslee
11-12-2006, 03:47 PM
Religious topics have always been a issue, its for them to decide how they want to interperet it n it is not the business of the non muslims to question.


You know what is probably a root cause?. DIMWITS & ARMCHAIR GENERALS with narrow mindset thinking they're very wise and apply a TACTLESS & PUNITIVE APPROACH or measure thinking its very appropriate!. IT DOESN'T ALWAYS WORK!...not with today's society and multiracial communities. But regretfully Malaysians are thicker skinned and don't easily repent or remorse. (like our many rascals we see on the roads!).
So everytime somebody declares a punitive measure..can't blame anyone for being vocal about it.